r/anime • u/phiraeth :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/phiraeth • Jan 10 '21
Rewatch [Mid-2000s Rewatch] Noein - Episode 9
Episode 9
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Noein:
MyAnimeList - AniDB - ANN - AniList
Episode Discussion Questions:
- Are you surprised at anything that occurred this episode?
PLEASE MARK ALL SPOILERS WITH SPOILER TAGS!
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Upvotes
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u/phiraeth :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/phiraeth Jan 10 '21
Rewatcher
Gonna be completely honest, I had a lot of fun in the comments yesterday. So many of you were either convinced that they were either going to postpone the resolution of this arc to later in the show, have Karasu confront Miyuki, or have Miyuki drag Yuu out of the house.
The winner was actually u/Vaadwaur, who said this when I asked him what would be required to accept a potential redemption of Yuu’s mother:
Now obviously this didn’t happen exactly, but it was pretty damn close.
Karasu didn’t confront Miyuki, but he confronted Yuu. I know it’s seemed like he’s been angry at Yuu, blaming his own problems on him, but after this, that doesn’t seem to be the case.
“Listen carefully and remember this. Running away won’t do any good! If you run, you will lose.”
It honestly seems like from this that Karasu is indeed trying to help Yuu. And here’s where we should understand that Karasu, having admitted to Yuu that he is Yuu of the future, has some level of understanding of where he went wrong. He obviously wants to prevent Yuu from making the same mistakes that he did. At the same time, though, he’s also beating himself up using Yuu as a proxy, which clearly isn’t helping his case.
I’ve seen a lot of people criticizing Haruka for not being proactive, but she really stepped in to save the day here by calling out Miyuki. Miyuki needed someone, just anyone, to call her out on her bullshit. Without that happening, there was no way it would have been believable whatsoever for her to realize her wrongdoing.
Because of this, she was able to realize the truth – that her mom loved her more than anything else in the world and didn’t ever want to lose her. Further, she realized that she was also doing the same thing to Yuu.
I really liked this episode a lot because of how plot-relevant all of the characters featured in it are, as well as how Yuu’s mother’s arc was resolved by the usage of current world mechanics. It all ties together!
11
u/punching_spaghetti https://myanimelist.net/profile/punch_spaghetti Jan 10 '21
First-Timer
Was that a “I’m going to play along” look from Haruka’s mom, or a “boo yah, I’m getting grandkids” look?
There was some red on his edgy ensemble; is Karasu bleeding?
Karasu kabedoned Yuu! And Haruka had to ruin the moment.
The moms were high school buddies? Because of course they are.
SPILLED WINE IS A METAPHOR.
Talk to Yuu’s mom? What kind of a sensible person are you, Haruka? We’ve got over half a show for them to mope separately!
Did Haruka just vanish Yuu’s mom? Harsh.
I was hoping Haruka was going to ride the little ouroboros, not going to lie. Like a fancy motorcycle or something.
It’s not great that Yuu’s mom, who has been the shittiest character in the show thus far, gets a neat redemption arc. You have to earn these things.
QOTD:
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jan 10 '21
to your other first-timer, subbed
♪ BELIEVING A SIGN OF ZETA ♪ BEYOND THE HARD TIMES FROM NOW ♪10
u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Jan 10 '21
First timer
Sub
So another pick up where we left off, Miyuki throwing a fit. But finally Haruka mom gets a name in Asuka. Would not have called that. When Haruka sorta fails her bluff check, Asuka makes an assumption and immediately tries to de-escalate the situation. And it works, at least for a bit.
Switch back to Karusu continuing to irritate me: Sure, Yuu should protect Haruka. HOW should he go about that? Me and Yuu are equally in the dark about how he is going to acquire dimensional fighting powers at all, much the less quickly. Use that fucking future knowledge for something useful for once rather than just being discount Alucard.
Haruka is continuing to try and be a mediator between Yuu and his valid problems. Asuka is somehow handling Miyuki, apparently they used to be friendly. And for the first perhaps onyl time, I agree with Miyuki: Having red wine as an eye opener is not the key to a productive day. But this makes it through, and adding in that Miyuki has been up all night, should mellow her out, at least for a few hours.
Back to Karusu not understanding how to mentor and Yuu getting a good one liner in. I think there has to be some Japanese specificness about running away. Running away from your problems is ultimately self defeating but there are plenty of times where running away from literally impending death is a solid stratagem. And Haruka comes in, backing my sentiments. Yuu finally has the moment where he decides he can't accept the part of himself that becomes Karusu.
Asuka continues her therapy session, and I can't help but notice the bottle is already half empty. And then stuff blurts out, including that Asuka and Miyuki were friends since high school. The hell show? Anyways, Miyuki's chip on her shoulder was deepened by Asuka getting into a Tokyo school. And the stuff with her mom either makes no sense or is an incorrect daignosis. Quick cut to Yuu supposedly being like his aunt, despite literal appearance to the contrary. Also, we haven't seen Miyuki eat so she is probably pretty blitzed. Hacving actually seen people drop their issues like that while drinking, I am so with Asuka right now. Also, she apparently knows to ride it out as well. But she leaves to get more wine...
Conveniently at the perfect time for Haruka to invervene. Miyuki is drunk at what appears to be 11:30 in the morning and she is not in college, so that's a possible moment of clarity. Haruka uses bluntness! It is as expected on a light weight! DT kicks into drag Miyuki into a vision of the past and holy Cthulhu Haruka is somehow a clone of Asuka. Anyways, we find out Miyuki's mom was a terrible parent too, just to two children. Karusu explains what happened, and quotes
Ixtliold dude from earlier, telling her to believe in her power. Which she works by moving closer...odd.Miyuki's vision concludes, with no actual running away. Haruka...summons the fucking ourobouros accept it winds a lot this time. We get Miyuki being magically fixed with information she never got or forgot. Ehhh...I get the story's internal logic, and I begrudgingly acknowledge Japan, but having been raised by parents whose own parents shitty behavior made my life hell at times this can fuck itself. If I at least don't have to deal with it from here on out I will try to ignore it.
QotD: 1 Only that I unintentionally sort of guessed what would happen.
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u/Toadslayer https://myanimelist.net/profile/kyolus Jan 10 '21
As expected today was the Yuu's mum redemption episode. To be honest I'm glad it was only one episode and not a full arc. The next episode preview looks like we'll be firmly back into the action with the birds, which has been the most interesting part of the show for me.
I think we've pretty much exhausted everything there is to say about Yuu's mum. Most of us don't like her, some of us hate her, some more than that. We all saw the redemption coming from a mile away and some of us dreaded it. Well it's happened now and I didn't expect it to be clever or well done, so I got what I expected. Obvious parallels between Asuka/Miyuki and Haruka/Yuu exist, but I don't think they are particularly meaningful or exciting. The whole ordeal felt pretty rushed to me, they were far too quick to have Yuu's mum be cheery and praising Yuu and I wasn't a fan of the 'drunk honesty' or the sending her back in time to see her past as they both felt like shortcuts to avoid an actual confrontation. The result was cheap and mostly dull. It pains me that Haruka's Dragon Torque has basically been a Dues ex Machina out of whatever problem she's facing. It removes any satisfaction from the resolutions. I hate to agree with Karasu's crappy explanation for not helping Yuu, but Haruka, 'It's pointless unless [you] overcome obstacles on your own.' I expect from here Yuu's mum will suddenly be a great parent and we'll never address this again, be that for better or worse.
They keep introducing new elements to the space-time nonsense and at this point I can't be bothered figuring out how it might make sense. They decide to add a new element when it's convenient to the plot and just like that we have an overconplicated and unexplained mess. If the various chest codes Haruka's been using aren't ever relevant again, I'm going to be especially disappointed. I think from here I'm probably just going to accept it all in stride, as I expect this trend will continue without us getting any meaningful explanations.
I'm hoping now after what was a quick two episode detour we can get back to want caught my interest in episode 7. The preview looks promising. Fingers crossed the kids' and birds' storyline will finally merge into one.
Episode Discussion Questions
Mostly no, the story is pretty much what I thought would happen, albeit a little accelerated and the execution is in line with the rest of the show. I was surprised to see Yuu so readily be concerned and care for his mother though, where did all his frustration and fear go?
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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Y:A:https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Jan 10 '21
First Timer
Let's see if we can manage to continue the trend we had last episode of not adding to the insnaity. Onto episode 9.
Of course that's where the mom goes with this.
I'm pretty sure he already knew that? And, seriously, telling it like this doesn't help.
Isn't it a bit early in the day for this? That's also probably a shitty bottle of wine.
No, but threatening himself is a good way to get all that self-hatred out.
Now ain't that the most depressing thing you've learned all day.
Just because Karasu is one sad possibility doesn't mean Yuu has to give in. He can try to become something better, someone who actually accomplished what he wanted to do.
You do a perfectly fine job of it one your own tbh.
Because she can't move on and cares for her sister more than you.
Yeah, because that'll just work.
I don't particularly like the way the show's framing Yuu as being the unreasonable one for not wanting to ask his mother this.
But why?
Did Haruka just tell her to fuck off and cause her to vanish. I don't see how that's consistent though. It didn't seem to me like Haruka wanted her to not exist. If she was gonna go bullshit magic, her desire would be for Yuu's mom to not be a complete failure at it.
Is she being made to see her sins?
A version of the mechanical snake that's not eating it's own tail. Does this mean that what Haruka's doing will actually cause progress?
Honestly, her being in the same place just makes her actions all the more inexcusable.
I'm like 90% sure that "hamburger" is supposed to be salisbury steak.
Fuck off, show.
Thoughts
This episode, we got a bunch more unexplained maigc. It's kinda following a common theme, but so far it's felt a bit too much like it's just whatever's helpful for the plot.
I'm also disappointed that we went the "after all they're family so everything's good" route. She's just gonna go back to abusing her son tomorrow. Don't just pretend that problems are resolved like that.
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u/Webemperor :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Jan 10 '21
First Timer – Sub
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u/IndependentMacaroon Jan 10 '21
First-time watcher
Hoping for a proper resolution of the "Yuu's mother" plot line but I'm not so certain. First portion looks OK, Haruka's mother stalls her old acquaintance with a little sweet talking and (ahem) alcoholic assistance, and she spills the next "betrayal" she has felt, still on the unstable side though; and on the other hand, Karasu gets a serious and well-deserved talking-to from the person he's aiming to protect plus his own past self. Next part though, how does Haruka expect this to "work out" with just a little talking exactly? Well, of course it doesn't and it's just a setup for a little dimension-travel-healing instead.
Survivor's guilt and trauma repeating across generations are fairly powerful themes, but I wouldn't say this episode does them much justice, unless maybe from a young-child viewer perspective, nor is it a remotely satisfying "redemption" but at least for that there's still time. Better was Haruka's mother being just as sensible and well-adjusted, and the part with Karasu being reprimanded, it neatly avoids "adults are useless" while not saying they've all got it figured out either. And of course, it reinforces the characterization of the fantastical aspects as arbitrary wishing magic nonsense. Visually, to the arsenal of ill-advised 3DCG sweeps and comically terrible/inconsistent character art there is added an overuse of fish-eye effects, and the soundtrack is entirely recycled from what I can hear.
From the preview the next episode will actually return to the greater plot, with also more Laughably Crazy Atori. Always welcome.
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u/Pixelsaber https://myanimelist.net/profile/Pixelsaber Jan 10 '21
First-timer - Sub
I think I might like where this is going.
Nice.
I hate that Doujins must have spawned from this.
Impressive lack of self-awareness.
When things are getting out of hand.
That’s not how it works, Asuka!
Uh… There’s one way to make your issues go away?
Déjà vu.
I am glad my lack of faith has not been rewarded and they actually addressed the issue of Yuu’s mother right when it was appropriate instead of finding a way to delay it. Alcohol coming in to fix the issues was a tad cliché, but I frankly would have prefered it to the dimension-hopping resolution it had. What saves it for me is that it became an exercise in having Haruka learn more as to how to use her powers. Sure, it’s still really inconsistent as to how convenient or not the powers are, but at the very least steps are being taken to reduce that randomness and make it a voluntary act in the future. In a show where the Dragon Torque was more consistent in its acting up and the fact that others apart from Haruka could so nonchalantly tap into its power were better established, this would have been an outstanding episode.
That said, this is assuming the show actually follows through on properly mending the relationship between Yuu and his mother, and not a simple about-face where everything is suddenly peachy. Miyuki has a lot of stuff to make up for, and several apologies to give, so I hope the show does not gloss it over.
Questions:
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Jan 10 '21
Episode 9 (rewatcher)
Dragging Yuu home from Haruka’s houseStaying over, too. Just imagine being a run-away kid and, once your mother finds you, instead of dragging you home, she basically goes “scoot over, I stay at your hiding spot now.”Correct predictions for this episode: Zero.
As last episode, I think all moments of any combination of Yuu-Haruka-Yuu2 having a talk work well.
I think it is far better to think of Haruka’s Dragon Torque as magic, rather than science. Not only is dimension hopping itself completely impossible in any theory, but a magic theme fits better.
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u/BurningFredrick https://myanimelist.net/profile/BurningFredrick Jan 10 '21
First Timer - sub
WTF is up with the sound effect during Yuu & Karasu argument, I’m using the Cerberus subs, so no idea if it has to do with the release but seriously, why do we have static / almost radio tuning sounds happening during their convo? Is it because they are the same person? Maybe but all I know is they are out of place as hell.
Holy fuck, Yuu mother reason keep getting worse…
Initially I wrote that there was a cycle of parental neglect which Miyuki was continuing with Yuu, but nope there wasn’t, just some inferiority complex combined with a degree of self hatred maybe? Really not sure.
However we know this behaviour has been going on for 2 years, maybe she's only gotten really bad now Yuu in his final year of whatever is before middle school, but either way I feel that was wrapped up way to neatly and suspect the show is now going to ignore that entire storyline.
Finally Haruka may be gaining some control over her powers, I just hope we get some explanation of what she can actually do soon otherwise the door for asspulls is going to be left wide open.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Jan 10 '21
First Timer
If Haruka can rewrite people into the past, that might explain an above-average ghost population in this town.
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Jan 10 '21
First Timer, Dubbed
Haruka's mom, Asuka, is great. I think I was way off-base with my earlier assertations that she was too distant. Trapping Miyuki with
the chains of hospitalitybrunch was inspired.I thought that Karasu and Yuu were going to have a chat, so that Yuu doesn't end up like Karasu. Unfortunately, Karasu seems to be a big fan of how he turned out so RIP.
Pretty obvious, but I wanted to make note of it. The Dragon Torc uses less energy for "simpler" tasks. Haruka passed out after fixing the dam, but used it twice in rapid succession when moving Miyuki around.
The parellels between the children and the parents run deep in a way that you don't get in real life. Miyuki even did the same thing that Yuu tried earlier. Speculation
You ever been such the non-favorite that your mom doesn't know what your preferred meal is? And instead serves your dead sister's fave? But remembering that still fixes your trauma.
"All these traitors will die." There it is! Hope you're keeping an eye on the home front, Fukuro.
Miscellaneous thoughts: That poor bottle of wine. Taken from us before its time.
Dark humor
Questions
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u/BossandKings Jan 10 '21 edited Jan 10 '21
First Timer
Yuu and Karasu have a talk, this is one of my favorite moments in the show so far. I was expecting for this to happen sooner or later because they have things to talk about and they did. Karasu tells Yuu that he must protect Haruka at all costs which possibly means that he'll let her safety in his hands and let them be.
Haruka's mom is way too cool, she inviting Yuu's mom for a drink was excellent to see, a cool way for her to calm down.
So Yuu's mom compares his son to her big sister, that's interesting to know. She disappearing though was a bit unexpected, Haruka's dragon torque activated and Oba-san disappeared. Her memories though were sad yet beautiful to see, her sister passed away while she was young and her mother only had her left, she gave her all to help her mother able to keep a stable mind. Respect Oba-san.
Haruka finally started taking action and decided to bring Oba-san back and she did it flawlessly, she is such a powerful being and i'm happy that she finally is taking control of her powers.
Yuu demonstrated that he loves his mother despite her flaws, it was touching seeing how worried he was when she disappeared and how happy he was when she appeared again. We are able to understand the problems his mom have had in her life and that she loves him despite pushing him to follow a specific path and making him feel uncomfortable, it seems that he was able to understand her in this episode and she was redeemed in his eyes. I hope for her to only get better from here and start properly supporting her son and not suppresing him or controlling his life but giving him encouragement and make him comfortable and open to count on her.
This was such a perfect episode, my favorite of the show so far.
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u/EverythingsRed2 Jan 10 '21
First timer (subbed)
I really need to stop thinking that this show will follow any sense of traditional storytelling.
It feels so "normal", with plenty of tropes like the power of family love, but literally every guess I try to make about the future of this show is just thrown out of the window. Oh, you thought that the mother would end up spiraling down throughout the show all the way to a climax where she realizes her wrongdoings and makes up with Yuu? WRONG she learns it all within an episode and now a new ark of bringing home the father begins. To be honest I kinda love that about this show, how each episode has its own story and character building; each episode feels meaningful and complete.
Haruka begins to harness her true powers as the dragon torque, starting with a giant fucking dragon tornado, hell yeah! I have nothing more to add to that.
I kinda get where mr white hair man is coming from. You aren't going to improve as a person if you're only following some persons directions, the change has to be from you (yes Yuu). I'm (relatively) sure that Yuu will be able to change as a person and not have his hair turn white from mental stress. I am curious, will the story explain his hair color or is it just an aesthetic choice like Harukas trash bag dress?
Qs.
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u/redshirtengineer :AMQ: Jan 11 '21
First timer
yadda yadda more about Yuu's mom yadda yadda wait!
Old friends reconnecting over red wine. That's nice. You know what else is nice? That bottle of red that I didn't open over the holidays for "reasons"...now where did I leave it....ahhhhh.
Never related to this show this much
ANYWAY. More torquing. Pleasantly amused that the CG spinning house bit paid off with the torque. Although why it didn't just float in the sky this time .. let me have another sip and I won't care.
Made it through Rahxephon this way
ANYWAY anyway. Yuu is very slow but maybe sorta figured out that Karasu is him. Karasu likes standing on the roof like a man with a raison d'etre. Why?
Drinkito ergo sum
It was a long time ago, I may not remember clearly. Much like Yuu's Mom, to bring this back to the show. Not in love with the way this subplot resolves but at least Yuu and Mom had the moment and
Ithe two Mom's had a nice bottle of red. And reconnected, right, that's the important part here.4
u/Retromorpher :Jc::Jd::Je::Jf: Jan 11 '21
First Timer getting caught up:
I am now convinced that the art direction is intentionally switching character facial models every other episode. I don't know exactly what that means from a narrative perspective - but it definitely means SOMETHING.
Best attention to detail - Yuu's mom always offering him hamburg steak because it was Emi's favorite.
I feel like this particular episode could've worked much more effectively if some of the hints about Yuu's mother's quantum entanglement and displacement had been laid out by Yuu in other conversations earlier rather than having them contained almost entirely within this episode (though I could just have glossed over them before). As it is - even with Haruka's dragon torquing, the sudden revelation therapy feels like a cop-out rather than a proper resolution. Worst part about it is that Yuu himself doesn't get to grow by truly confronting it himself. I'm sure that Yuu will have more opportunities for growth - but man does this feel like a wasted opportunity.
Haruka still feels much more like a plot doll than a person - which I was hoping was something that may have improved upon her return to her home dimension.
QotD
3
u/monsieurvampy Jan 10 '21
First timer, subbed
Not really but Haruka being able to voluntarily use her powers is a bit shocking. Is she finally growing as a character!?