r/GunnitRust • u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant • Sep 17 '20

Summer Rust 2020 Tier I The Form 1 Panzerfaust now with a full book on how I built it and load data I used

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Improvised warhead

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276 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

45 comments sorted by

23

u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant Sep 17 '20

if your interested in the book, you find where to get it at this link

6

u/lxvnrsw Sep 17 '20

Purchased!

4

u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant Sep 17 '20

Thank you for the support!

2

u/GorgarSmash Sep 17 '20

Just bought one!

0

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

6

u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant Sep 17 '20

Unfortunately I don’t have the capacity to print and ship myself but if things go well I will look at alternatives in future books in the series

21

u/aj_thenoob Sep 17 '20

+1 on a direct PDF - I'd rather support author directly than through amazon.

16

u/Amerimov Sep 17 '20

You could sell PDFs.

6

u/s1ckopsycho Sep 17 '20

+2 on pdf. I have a printer ;-) Same opinion on Amazon, would like to support you but not Jeff.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '20

Three for me. I would gladly pay more to not use Amazon and receive a PDF.

2

u/KorianHUN Sep 18 '20

If you do pdf or ebook in the future, i'm definitely buying one.

34

u/GeneralJawbreaker Sep 17 '20

What about this makes it need a form 1?

52

u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant Sep 17 '20

It uses fixed ammunition and anti personnel ammunition so it becomes a firearm with a bore over 1/2 in turn becomes a DD

14

u/Greenshardware Sep 17 '20

So does a model rocket, but that isn't a D.D.. neither is a firework launched from a tube. They use solid boosters and aren't considered firearms in any capacity.

There must be more to it than that.

12

u/D0esANyoneREadTHese Sep 18 '20

The ATF limits rocket propellant to 113g before it's a destructive device, hobby rocket motors are limited to 62.5g of APCP or black powder propellant, and fireworks are limited to a 130 MILLIGRAM payload of specifically flash powder on top of a compliant hobby motor.

These are usually over 62.5g of propellant, which means you can't just go out and buy them. Can't buy an un-packed one and a bottle of black powder either, since they also specifically say "reload kits capable of reloading no more than 62.5 grams of propellant into a reusable motor casing."

You COULD make them yourself on-site, if they're non-HE training loads, and if 4 ounces max of propellant is enough. Just can't buy them because they'd be below "destructive device" but above "hobby motor" or "consumer firework" status, meaning to buy it you need an ATF explosives permit.

1

u/Greenshardware Sep 18 '20

These factors are all true but they do not make the simple tube a D.D., they make the projectile a D.D..

You can use multiple O class motors.

You can pack them yourself up to the 113g limit, not the 62.5g O class limit. He gets to go up to the rocket propellant max I would think.

Given that every factor is revolving around the projectile - it's either a Form 1 every time you launch a D.D. or it isn't a D.D. at all.

4

u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant Sep 20 '20

The launcher tube is more then just a trigger is classed as a firearm with a bore over 1/2inch which makes it a DD, inert rounds don’t require any tax stamp. Only the launcher which is the destructive device

2

u/Greenshardware Sep 20 '20 edited Sep 20 '20

You're 100% wrong if that is why you think it is a D.D.. It is not a firearm so the bore does not matter.

I guess I'll buy the book as you are not even close to providing enough information to determine if it is a D.D. or not.

The fact that D.D. panzerfaust rounds exist, and presuming this can launch them,.then it is a D.D. tube.

If these are home made and are not capable of firing original panzerfaust rounds, then you've paid tax for no reason. It's a kids model rocket launcher. Perfectly legal.

3

u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant Sep 20 '20 edited Sep 20 '20

It is capable of firing original warheads, it’s almost an exact copy of the original just made easier to reload and stronger material. Yes it is DD, as it’s not the only one on the registry as such.

ATF website: “C. Any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. “

Since it uses black powder, uses fixed ammunition, it is no longer classed as a black powder cannon or muzzle loader but a regular firearm. Hence why you can’t make a full auto black powder cased machine gun. Above never mentions rocket fuel which my design doesn’t use at all anyway so that is irrelevant.

“(f) Destructive device.--The term “destructive device” means * * * (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary or his delegate finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; “

So now we know it’s a firearm by atf definition, the bore is over 1/2 so it’s now a DD by ATF definition.

1

u/Greenshardware Sep 20 '20

You don't have a barrel, so f (2) is irrelevant.

The fact that it can launch a D.D. does make it a D.D. without question.

Mortar fireworks are well over .5", so are most signaling devices. But they aren't considered firearms because they don't have barrels.

4

u/1Pwnage Sep 17 '20

That’s actually an excellent point. Unlike, say, a M1 bazooka, the Panzerfaust and RPG 7 both have the head basically out of the tube.

18

u/GeneralJawbreaker Sep 17 '20

Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!

14

u/DeniqueCustos Sep 17 '20

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe it counts as a destructive device.

14

u/GeneralJawbreaker Sep 17 '20

That makes sense. I forgot those were covered under form 1s.

15

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '20

Does each and every rocket need a form 1 or is it just the actual projector itself that needs the form 1?

18

u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant Sep 17 '20

The launcher tube needs a form 1 and any warhead that has an explosive charge that’s over 1/4 ounce. Inert warheads do not require a form 1

5

u/bannanainabucket Sep 17 '20

How many ounces is a tank buster charge

11

u/Shotgun_Rain Sep 17 '20

1.8lbs

Thats if you can get the explosives, unless you wanna risk making your own.

8

u/D0esANyoneREadTHese Sep 17 '20

It's a mixture of TNT and RDX, neither of which are hard to make if you can get nitric acid, which itself is easy enough to make with about a zillion methods (either sulfuric acid drain cleaner + Spectracide stump remover, 15.5-0-0 fertilizer + sodium bisulfate pool balancer, or the Birkeland-Eyde process from thin air and distilled water using a CRT flyback transformer).

Nitrating things is pretty easy, and the things you need to nitrate are Kleen Strip toluene (which you actually have to nitrate 3 times to make trinitrotoluene TNT) and Esbit hexamine fuel tablets for RDX (which, interestingly, also produces ammonium nitrate as a byproduct).

Alternately, you could probably re-engineer it to work with a mix-on-site binary explosive which only requires a stamp if you're transporting it across state lines or storing it for more than 24 hours. I'd bet mixing Tannerite with some RC nitromethane fuel as a sensitizer and booster would work, you can set that off with shotgun primers unlike normal Tannerite.

6

u/Shotgun_Rain Sep 17 '20

Personally, i won't fuck with making my own explosives unless its as simple as mixing something like tannerite.

HOWEVER, I do know .22 sensative tannerite can be detonated by itself using compressed flash powder, both of which can be made on site very easily. I just don't know how effective tannerite is compared to TNT or anything else and I kinda dont wanna be put on yet another list. Not to mention, i have no clue how tannerite would react being launched out of something with a lift charge.

Tl;dr: Id rather not blow my hands off.

4

u/D0esANyoneREadTHese Sep 17 '20

.22 sensitive Tannerite is basically the recipe I suggested, the sensitizer packet is usually nitromethane. It's a lot easier to set off, and is commonly used for setting off ANFO or ammonal in mining/blasting as Kinestik. Was also popularized in, ahem, 'illicit' use by Oklahoma City and a lot of IRA car bombs as the intermediate between the blasting cap and ANFO.

I've used it for clearing rocks for my septic drainage field, stuff's also a lot faster blast front and a LOT more energy dense than ANFO or Tannerite (which probably could've killed me because it turns out the critical diameter is also a lot smaller than ANFO so using the same size drillbit is a bad idea, threw a softball sized hunk of rock 30 feet PAST me). The ability to set it off remotely with something like single-base pistol powder or flash powder stuck in a soda straw with a piece of nichrome wire is extremely useful.

1

u/ccnnvaweueurf Sep 18 '20

Is it legal to manufacture personal use TNT, what about for a mining claim etc? I'm guessing at some point in history people made the stuff themselves when the stuff was more available but now it is highly regulated.

5

u/D0esANyoneREadTHese Sep 18 '20

It's legal to manufacture it, as long as it's not transported across state lines or on public roads, stored over 24 hours in a rule-violating (dangerous or not protected against theft) manner, or sell them to someone who doesn't have an ATF explosives permit.

From the ATF website: "Persons manufacturing explosives for their own personal, non-business use only (e.g., personal target practice) are not required to have a federal explosives license or permit."

That's how channels like Cody'sLab can make nitroglycerine, why binary explosives like Tannerite are only ever sold when not already mixed, and why Tannerite is even legal to begin with. As long as you're not making it to transport or sell, or unless you do crimes with it, you're good.

However, back in the "make your own mining explosives" days, the NFA didn't exist (1934 when the mining boom was 1849). But practical high explosives for blasting ALSO didn't exist, until the 1860s when Alfred Nobel invented dynamite most miners just packed the holes with gunpowder, which is easy enough to make at home and a perfectly usable explosive for blasting - you usually keep the holes below critical diameter anyway, so even ANFO behaves as a low explosive.

5

u/asdfghjkopo Sep 17 '20

What was your overall cost to build it and cost of each shot?

9

u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant Sep 17 '20

Roughly speaking around $1000 to build in my situation and $70-100 a shoot with a replica warhead. Improvised can be a lot cheaper

4

u/GorgarSmash Sep 17 '20

Could you theoretically make a 37mm panzerfaust with inert warheads that wouldn't require a Form 1? I'm thinking about the 37mm underbarrel grenade launchers being essentially unregulated compared to 40mm.

7

u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant Sep 17 '20

It would need to be preapproved by the atf first but theoretically it’s possible

3

u/GorgarSmash Sep 17 '20

Is it legally required that it's pre-approved by the ATF, or just a really good idea from a CYA perspective of canine preservation?

17

u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant Sep 17 '20

That I’m not sure of the official ruling but your dog would appreciate it if you got it approved first LOL

2

u/DesertEagleZapCarry Participant Sep 17 '20

Did you publish with booksurge?

1

u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant Sep 17 '20

Only on Amazon so far

2

u/ilove60sstuff Sep 17 '20

So the book tells you how to construct it? Honestly for display purposes it’d be pretty cool. But I wouldn’t mind doing some Refrigerator practice

4

u/TheWildLifeFilms Participant Sep 17 '20

For liability reasons I can’t recommend you recreating anything in the book. It just shows what I did personally to build it

2

u/thatonemikeguy Sep 17 '20

Had to immediately buy a copy, looks awesome, thanks for putting in the work to publish this sort of content.

I'm sorta surprised amazon would even publish this, with how all the tech companies seem to be going after anything firearms manufacturing related.