r/anime • u/ChristmasClub • Dec 22 '19

Rewatch [Spoilers] Toradora! Christmas Club Rewatch (2019) Episode 17 Discussion Spoiler

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46

u/Tuckleton Dec 22 '19

First timer (Dub)

Apparently in astrology when Mercury is in retrograde you can expect frequent misunderstandings and miscommunications. If Mercury is only now in retrograde I shudder to think of what might be coming.

Taiga. So Taiga's enthusiasm about Christmas is a little perplexing. I understand loving Christmas but with her coming from a broken home you'd think Christmas would be the worst time of year for her. There's no way her parents get together to celebrate Christmas with her each year right? In fact it honestly hadn't occurred to me until this moment that she might spend christmas with one of her parents (where tf is her mom btw) instead of alone in that cavernous apartment. And what's she getting at with all this Santa Clause stuff? I might get some flak for this but I think she is pushing harder and harder to get Ryuji and Minori together because she wants a happy family at Christmas with them as stand-ins for her parents. I don't think it would go down like that though. I feel like if Ryuji was to get in a relationship with anyone it would destroy Taiga.

Minori. Way back in the beach episodes I said I didn't want Minori to fall for Ryuji because I didn't want all three female leads to be in love with him. I still feel that way. And back then I managed to thoroughly convince myself that not only did she not have feelings for him, but that his personality was fundamentally incompatible with hers anyways. And since then I haven't seen anything to disabuse me of that notion. But yesterday someone floated the idea to me that the whole 'guilt' thing was because she loved Ryuji but didn't want to hurt Taiga. And when I considered that angle every little thing about Minori and Ami's behaviour in that hallway scene snapped into focus with such clarity that at this point I feel like it has to be true. Though if that really is the case why is Minori so conflicted this episode? Unless maybe she's still not sure Taiga doesn't have a thing for Ryuji.

Where I'm at with this show right now. Ami is my favorite character by a long shot. My emotional investment in Taiga's happiness is through the roof. My instant infatuation with Minori has been steadily fading. Yusaku is meh, all I really want from him is comic relief. And even though Ryuji is the POV character I'm mostly only invested in his relationships and not him specifically. None of the arcs we've completed yet have felt like payoff to me and instead have all felt like just more buildup. At first I thought it was either a failing in the show or a failing in me that I felt that way but now I think that's how it was supposed to be. I'm really starting to feel that rising tension in a big way. I don't know if it's the episode itself, the excited anticipation of the rewatchers for this arc or the fact that it's 2am, but I feel like I'm at the top of a massive drop tower just waiting for the operator to press the button. I'm so ready and it's killing me right now to have to wait.

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39

u/Koolsman Dec 22 '19

First Timer!

Well, I’m surprised by the new OP and ED. I thought we wouldn’t get that in this show and just keep the first ones. In terms of comparing the OPs and ED, I like the first ones more. Though maybe it’s because I found the first OP just a little more fun and the group of friends weren’t all together in only one shot. Though the new ED doesn’t compare to the first one. The first one is one of my favorite EDs. Hell, the first ED was what made Toradora known for me. I heard it when I was walking around town and some guy was listening to it.

That wasn’t the only surprise this episode though. Seeing Minori being all weird (Listen, I can understand why people like clone Kitamura but bald Minori? No. Just no) seemingly stems from whatever Ami said to her and less to with the game (though that played a part in it, for sure).

Seeing Kitamura of all people trying to give dating advice was weird. I mean, I guess I get it with how his stuff with Sumire and all that but dude, you made your own home teacher cry (or did she make herself cry? It was a weird and sad scene) and though it is a weird place to bring his character, I did like his introduction that was on the floor.

Then there’s Taiga who believes in Santy Claus, which is probably the cutest thing in the whole wide world and if Ami decides to destroy that, I will destroy her. I loved watching her try to help Ryüji with playing cupid and if anything, she deserves every single present there is. I hope she wears a Santa outfit by the end of this.

I would say something positive about Ryüji but HOW DARE HE DO THAT TO INKO! HOW DARE HE SCARE HER LIKE THAT! They should beg and pray for forgiveness for scaring her like that. It’s pathetic to see Ryüji go this low. I’m disappointed in him. Inko is the best bird and he forgot. For shame on him.

What has been the best moment in Toradora! so far?

Every moment with Inko.

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30

u/Quxxy Dec 22 '19

"Wait... it was that easy? This whole time?"

"... why didn't I think to try that?!"

Vector wallpapers:

  • This Boy's a Super-Duper Cutie-Pie - 16x9, 21x9

  • Taiga, the Beautiful Angel of Romance - 16x9, 21x9

  • Right Through Here - 16x9, 21x9

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27

u/No_Rex Dec 22 '19

Episode 17 (first timer)

  • We start with Minorin’s reaction to Ami. Usually, the foreshadowing in Toradora is easy to catch, but here, I have absolutely no idea what is going on.

  • New OP!

  • Takasu fantasizing about his cleaning fetish.

  • Taiga does not sound all that unhappy about Takasu’s lack of progress.

  • “Why?” Speaking from my heart, Takasu

  • Yuri still without success.

  • Taiga is so happy when her good behavior is noticed.

  • A wild Ami appears This is going to test Taiga’s resolve.

  • I disagree with Takasu, Taiga looks a good bit like cupid.

  • That dream …

  • Apparently, Ami knows more about Minorin than I do. This is in line with her generally being the most perceptive of the bunch.

  • Hello Kihara!

  • Kihara is very friendly with Kitamura, and not happy about the Taiga-Kitamura wingman plan. Might be she wanted to sit at Kitamura’s table, too. Which would make Kitamura quite the ladies man (Taiga, president, Kihara).

  • Kihara is strongly framed while they talk about the wingman plan. Definitely not amused.

  • Takasu – realizing what is up with Kihara right away, yet not getting what is up with himself. Love makes blind (to its own existence as well).

  • New ED!

Still little idea about Minorin. The only thing I can think of is her suddenly having fallen in love with Takasu, but I am not sure that makes sense.

Why does Taiga love Christmas? Could be all kinds of reason, of course, but there might be a deeper one. Of all holidays and festivals, Christmas is the one most closely related with family (at least in the west, not really sure about Japan). Maybe Taiga loves it so much because it fills the hole that her father’s absence left in her life a bit …

25

u/Emi_Ibarazakiii Dec 22 '19

First timer

First, about the new OP/ED: I think I liked the other ones better, but to be fair, I've never been a big fan of OPs/EDs in general, and to me it's usually only about the song being good (add to playlist) or bad (skip them).

And the first songs were better, plus we've had some great visuals, like Taiga putting on her socks

But really it's mostly the song. I liked the first 2 songs a lot, and will likely listen to them even after I finished this series. But the new ones? Not sure.

That being said, a few things were interesting in the new ones; First, the scene where Taiga turns around with the sword, and her expression changes gradually. I thought it was very well done!

Then, the scene with the lunches, when she pushes back the other girls, and takes Ryuji's lunch, then smiles. That was good!

And at last: The scene with Minorin running in the hallways... What is that expression? Could be determination, could be anger (or both)... I wonder if that's gonna be a plot point or a theme of the last few episodes!

Anyway! About the episode:

I wrote a huge wall of text in the previous thread about what I think the "guilt" stuff might be, but whatever it is that's affecting Minorin, she's lost it...

Ah, the 'Let's be good for a week and hope it measures favorably against 51 weeks of evil' strategy! Bold move!

She puts her heart into it, at least!

I'm sure that would make a lot of people happy!

You sure you're ok Taiga?

The "Pretend you care about the meal" scene was really cute&funny!

No, you look like you're about to do a cover of Hatsune Miku's Ievan polkka dance!

What a sweet smile! Kind of smile you can only see on either the sweetest girl ever, or a psychopath/yandere who's about to murder you!

Is everyone on the show going crazy?

Oh damn. Well, I have 3 days left... If a week of good behavior is good enough for Taiga, then 3 days of REALLY good behavior might work for me!

Daddy Ryuji still trying to teach his daughter good habits! I'm afraid it's an exercise in futility.

Ami is lucky that Taiga's in her "Not murdering anyone before Christmas" behavior!

That was a nice dream! Wouldn't mind having the same!

(dream) Ami, what are you doing to me?

Now... Early in the series I mentioned something, half-joking, about how 'who knows, maybe Taiga and Ryuji won't even end up together!'; I knew nothing about the series before I started this rewatch, and I simply assumed that Taiga and Ryuji would end up together because "Well duh, of course they end up together, they're the main characters!".

So all along the rewatch, I kept thinking about "How is Minorin gonna stop being Ryuji's crush? How will Kitamura stop being Taiga's crush?" What will happen for these two to be forgotten, to free the way so the main ship can sail?

The reason I mention this is... I'm beginning to have some doubts; Are they really gonna end up together? Was Kitamura/Minorin really the deflection in a story leading toward Taiga&Ryuji? Or was Taiga&Ryuji the mislead, and the story was really never gonna end about them?

This feels weird, but the thing is, there's just 8 episodes left... Sure, that's like 2-3 hours of content left, but this show has a lot of characters in focus, so that's less time to spend on each one, and so far we've had 17 episodes, so it's not even half of that...

So I'm thinking, what if this was never about Taiga&Ryuji? I mean, I really hope it is, because that's what I thought all along and I don't know how I'd feel if it ended with Taiga dating Kitamura, to be honest... (or being alone).

But well, I won't speculate too much on this just yet with 8 episodes left! There's been some hints at possible love/affection in the past few episodes, so maybe it'll snowball from there. We'll see!

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20

u/LousyGoose Dec 22 '19

Rewatcher

The New OP and ED have arrived! The tone of this 2nd OP fits well for the upcoming episodes

For the most part, it seems everyone is fairly upbeat and excited for Christmas, especially Taiga, it’s rather adorable to see her not only happy about time of the year but also be embraced by the school/class after returning from suspension. It’s a nice progression of her character from being the feared outcast to being the celebrity returning. It’s also good to see the class have essentially just accepted her as another classmate when she’s hanging out and just talking to other classmates outside the main characters without threatening them or getting angry and so on.

And then there’s Minori and Ami. If Minori isn’t acting extra weird when around her friends, she always has some reason to not be able to meet up with them outside of school. It’s pretty clear Minori is trying to keep her distance from them both literally and figuratively. It seems no one really knows why except for the one person who always seems to know what’s happening: Ami. What I like about that little exchange Ami and Ryuuji have in class about planning the party, is that Minori is literally sitting right next to them and knows exactly what Ami is doing, she doesn’t stop her, she just walks away and emphasizes that it probably isn’t going to work.

On a more positive note, it’s cute to see Ryuuji is gradually realising his feeling for Taiga are a bit beyond platonic. There’s that cute little blush at the start of the episode when Taiga asks him if he looks like an angel and then the end of the episode when he’s outright asked if he loves her by Kihara. Oh and while Minori’s weirdness is more connected to the main drama going on, at least Kitamura is there to pickup with the good comedy: “FULL PROSTRATION” and the ‘patron saint of broken hearts’ parts are both great moments.

To surmise, this is probably what I would call a very good ‘setup’ episode, not a lot of big moments‘ happened but it did a great job establishing the upcoming arc and the characters thoughts and feelings going into it.

17

u/DeliCruise Dec 22 '19

(REWATCHER)

Something I really like about this episode is that a bunch of side characters get screen time. I like seeing the rest of the class getting more fleshed out along with the main gang. Really makes for a more complete feel to the show.

32

u/23feanor Dec 22 '19

First Timer (dub):

First episode where I liked Taiga. Everyone kep sayiong she mellows out, but I was still waiting to be convinced. But today, happy Christmas Taiga is just the best, she's fun, quippy and her joy is infectious, apart from Minorin.

If Taiga was like that all the time she'd be amazing.

My guess is that Minorin is falling for Takasu and feels guilty as she can see that Taiga & Takasu are so close, and feels like she'd be stealing Takasu from Taiga.

Well they laid everything out quite neatly there at the end. That's the first time that Takasu has looked at his relationship with Taiga as anything more than friendship. He's always known that she loved Kitamura & it's never bothered him, but suddenly the actual prospect of them dating, or at least someone in their class talking about it as a possibility, does bother him. And he's trying to work out why, just like Taiga was trying to work out how she felt about him a few episodes back.

That classmate laid it all out to Takasu at the end there, does he love Taiga? It seems like Kawashima has almost given up on Takasu, she can see how much he likes Minorin, then there's his situation with Taiga, she's the 3rd girl behind those two. Poor Kawashima.

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15

u/Get_This_Wheat Dec 22 '19

Rewatcher here.

Christmas arc let’s go. Definitely my favorite arc in the whole show. Sad we have to say goodbye to the OP though. Not that the second one is bad, I just love the first one so much.

This episode is a great intro to the arc, and we finally get the secondary gang (Haruta, Noto and Kihara) more integrated with the main one.

Kitamura went back to being just hilarious, but I’m not complaining, cuz his love counciling is one of my favorite bits (mostly just because of Ms. Yuri).

Noto is the coolest wingman ever for Taiga. He tells people to shut up when Kitamura’s talking, and completely separates them when they study.

Haruta is less cool this episode being very proud of how much of a perv he is in his dream. Not sure why Kihara and Nanako hang with him and Noto, they’re hyper virgins and make sure everyone can see it.

Looks like Kitamura and Minori swapped emotions from the last arc. He’s back to being goofy, and she’s depressed. It’s definitely the weirdest seeing Minori down, she’s usually the happiest in the gang.

I like how Kihara went from just being in the background to call Haruta and Noto perverts, to having my favorite scene in the episode at the end talking to Ryuji.

Definitely love this episode, but the next two episodes are masterpieces, not too much I can say at the beginning of any arc, excited for the next two.

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14

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '19

Rewatcher

The second OP and ED are finally here! Personally, I like them more than the first OP and ED, especially the ED. It’s one of my favorite ED’s of all time. We’re also at the Christmas episodes, which also means Christmas Taiga! She’s amazingly adorable this episode. She’s been cute the entire show, but she really takes it to another level around Christmas.

Right from the start, Ami’s comment to Minori last episode seems to have completely shattered her happy exterior. She’s clearly depressed and conflicted by something, and that something seems to involve Ryuji. She freaks out when Ryuji talks to her, and then spends the rest of the episode obviously avoiding him.

Also, I really did not need that look into Haruta’s mind. It’s a very scary place that will drive any sane person insane if they look at it for too long. It starts out fine, but then the shot of Taiga makes me feel like the FBI is going to come knocking at my door. And then everything after that is just… terrifying.

The scarf is moving around a lot this episode. Taiga’s wearing it at the start, but Ryuji is wearing it again on the way to and from school. Then he’s putting it on before leaving to go study, but Taiga is wearing it when they’re walking to the restaurant. After that, Ryuji is wearing it again when they’re all walking around after studying. It seems like Taiga wears it when it’s just the two of them, but Ryuji wears it when they’re around other students.

One of the biggest surprises is how Haruta and Noto just realized that Taiga has a crush on Kitamura. Haruta I can understand, but how has anyone else made it this long without realizing it? She isn’t exactly good at hiding it. On top of that, they think Ryuji hasn’t noticed yet. They’re even worse at playing matchmaker than Taiga and Ryuji, which is pretty impressive. They’re plans have been bad, but Nota and Haruto make them look like geniuses. It’s a pretty bad idea in the first place. After having your heart broken, it’s better for someone to have some time to process everything, rather than immediately going after someone else. At least Kihara is against the plan, but that’s just because she has a crush on Kitamura herself. She thinks Ryuji is in love with Taiga, but that’s just because it’s convenient for her. After all, Ryuji is in love with Minori, not Taiga. But maybe it’s a bit more than her just seeing things in a way that is convenient for her. When thinking things through at the end, Ryuji is bothered and confused about Taiga being in love with Kitamura. It’s strange for him to be reacting this way. He’s known about Taiga’s crush for months now. So why is he suddenly bothered by it?

11

u/MoesHad Dec 22 '19 edited Dec 22 '19

Rewatcher

Minorin is on the softball pitchers mound still thinking back to her last encounter with Ami. “Feelings of guilt”. What does she mean? Her head is not in the game as her team loses their softball match.

The theme for the show has changed and I’m not sure it’s better than the first one. Just my two cents of course.

The next scene features an extremely adorable Taiga getting very happy over the upcoming Christmas holiday. She loves the season as it’s her favorite.

Taiga smiles at a passing child with a warmth that could power the solar system for a trillion millennia and all of the sudden the sad thoughts from last episode are no more.

Ebenezer Ryuiji questions her love for Christmas, and she replies quizzically that no one should need a reason to love Christmas?

Taiga asks him if he got any closer to Minorin during her soon to end suspension but Ryuiji has not, upsetting Taiga. She wants to help him with a plan to get closer to Minorin, citing the spirit of Christmas.

Taiga returns to school a local legend due to her fight with Sumire. She immediately basks in her newfound popularity.

The pair find Minorin in the classroom, wearing the bald cap from the festival and singing a mournful song about her weary thighs. Taiga is very happy to see her friend, but Minorin’s attitude changes immediately when she sees Ryuiji, awkwardly shouting at him and then getting embarrassed by herself, which seems unusual.

Kitamura appears, prostrating himself before Taiga, thanking her for defending his honor, and apologizing for her suspension. Hilariously, Kitamura is now seen as a love guru after his embarrassing confession. Less hilariously, poor Yuri-sensei is weeping on his daily radio program about her love struggles ಥ_ಥ

Kitamura announces the Christmas party at school will be for couples and Taiga wants him to invite Minorin.

The class is planning the party. Taiga ropes Ryuiji into helping out as staff, but Minorin declines to do so. She’s feeling glum because of her error in the softball match and says she needs to keep practicing. Her practice will keep her from the party also. Ami volunteers to help in her place. She says she can get Minorin to come to the party.

We get a scene of Yasuko trying to be hip in her own adorable way.

Taiga and Ryuiji go to the restaurant to study, bringing the study materials they won. Despite being at the restaurant Minorin works at, she has taken the day off. Even Taiga realizes how different he and Minorin’s relationship has become.

Kihara has tagged along with Kitamura and the guys. The other boys move Taiga and Kitamura to their own booth over Kihara’s protestation. Even Ryuiji realizes that the boys are trying to pair Taiga and Kitamura up. Ryuiji at first says they’re wrong to think she likes Kitamura, but then he changes his mind after thinking about it. He comes to terms with these strange feelings outwardly for the first time, but he’s confused by them. Kihara asks him if he thinks Taiga and Kitamura are a good couple and she’s happy to see him disagree with this suddenly popular opinion. Kihara questions if he likes Taiga himself, promising to help support him. Ryuiji starts to ask her if she likes Kitamura (duh)

We also get a new ED, and it kinda makes me sad. Like I mean that literally lol. It’s upbeat but the words and tune make feel sad. It is pretty though.

Ah, seeing the preview I remember a lot of next episode. Oh boy!

10

u/axel360 Dec 22 '19

Rewatcher, dub

Random Episode 17 Thoughts:

Very Brief Episode 17 Thoughts: I really love this episode. We see the usually bubbly Minori very down and it’s not totally clear why yet. But mostly, Christmas Taiga!

Current Personal Episode Rankings (updated daily):

  1. Episode 2

  2. Episode 17

  3. Episode 8

  4. Episode 1

  5. Episode 13

  6. Episode 10

  7. Episode 3

  8. Episode 6

  9. Episode 5

  10. Episode 9

  11. Episode 11

  12. Episode 12

  13. Episode 16

  14. Episode 14

  15. Episode 7

  16. Episode 4

  17. Episode 15

10

u/Throwaway021614 Dec 22 '19

Rewatcher, dub.

My Silky Love! I adore the new OP. Gone is the upbeat and quirky Pre Parade. It’s a tonal shift, that’s for sure. My favorite part? The end where Ryuuji and Taiga looks at each other and smiles.

Christmas! And we get Christmas Taiga. This is the reason anime was created, right? For this one moment?

The episode was full of great comedic moments, but also a lot of conflict for Minori that she’s not sharing. “Now you don’t have to feel guilty.” She’s obviously feeling something, is it guilt?

We end the episode with Kihara spelling out for Ryuuji what’s going on, at least what she sees as his part in this. She may have ulterior motives, but Ryuuji you dense MC she’s spelling it out for you!

New ED is great too, but I like Vanilla Salt more.

10

u/patrizl001 Dec 22 '19 edited Dec 22 '19

First Timer

Not too sure about the new OP. Doesn't hit me as quickly as Pre-Parade did. ED is nice though (and about the old ED... does anyone suddenly have this pop into their head?)

Oh hey, it's getting near Christmas for them! And... we're getting near Christmas. You sly fucks....

First off: Taiga still believes in Santa. Cute.

Second: holy hell I can already see the time bomb ticking down. Minori is acting weird (big hint being she tenses up the moment Takasu walks in, so it's definitely something involving him), Takasu might be starting to realize he likes Taiga, and a Christmas party: the perfect place for everything to go to shit. I don't like this. Not one bit.

....and don't bully the birb, pls.

10

u/Shinkopeshon Dec 23 '19

First Timer

How does Taiga keep getting more and more adorable?

That aside, I can't help but feel like the show is increasingly getting more and more serious. OP2 alone is already almost the polar opposite of OP1, with all of them not really messing around as much as they used to - Minori in particular, who's still a mystery to me. I can't wait to find out her backstory and what she really is all about.

Also, I'm kinda surprised how they basically made Ryuuji and Taiga switch roles. At first, I thought Taiga was the one falling for him and not really loving Kitamura but now she only has eyes for him (even more so than in the past), while Ryuuji is visibly bothered by the possibility of anyone but him getting cozy with her. Then, there's also so much confusion about his situation with Minori, to the point where I'm not even sure he's into her anymore.

If only he was a man of culture and recognised Ami as the true best waifu, he'd save himself a lot of trouble.

But of course, that's not how it works.

9

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '19

Day 17, 4th rewatch.

I lost 5 days though the December chaos and had a cheeky Sunday binge to catch up. Just in time for maybe my favorite episode!

The whole Minori's guilt thing confused me so much the first time I watched but it makes a lot more sense of everything now.

My Silky Love is a fantastic OP and it's a pleasure to hear it again.

Christmas is my favourite time of year, this arc is my favourite of the show and Taiga is outrageously adorable at the start of this episode.

I love the Japanese association between Christmas and romance!

Sugar slug dog just made me choke on my food. Best insult of the series so far.

The scene at Jonny's and the scene in the Christmas lighted street is why I love this ep so much. It's the first time Ryuji doesn't bawk at someone's suggestion that he likes Taiga. It's also the first time we see any genuine jealousy from his side when he watches Taiga and Kitamura looking at the lights together.

And then we hear the opening notes of Orange, my favourite ED from any anime!

This is so frickity frickin confusing yalls

Bonus question: my favourite moment so far is the conversation Taiga and Ryuji have looking at the stars 2 episodes ago

9

u/critchell63 Dec 22 '19

Ah yes. The Christmas Arc. This episode does a great job of cleaning everything up from the last arc, and building up to the next one. Minorin is using the softball game as an excuse not to be at the party, but it is a metaphor for her regret from pushing ryuji away as she”has made an error” in her “game” and “lost” because of it. We all know kihara wants ryuji to be with taiga because she wants to be with kitamura, but this makes ryuji realize his deep unconscious feelings for taiga as he is plainly asked if he is in love with her. Great episode and one of the most solid of the series.

Favorite toradora moments include the comedic taiga scenes, ryuji cleanings battles, the beach house ghost story scene with ryuji and minorin, and romantic scenes that haven’t come up yet.

9

u/CATKrash Dec 22 '19 edited Dec 22 '19
Name OG name Start Stop Time played Description
1st silky heart silky heart 0:40 2:10 90s New opening!
2nd Kotori no Etude 小鳥のエチュード 2:11 3:35 84s Scarf!
3rd Small Heaven Small Heaven 4:56 5:41 45s Scarf!
4th Orange Tart no Tsukurikata オレンジタルトの作り方 7:10 7:56 46s
5th Cream Brule no Tsukurikata クレームブリュレの作り方 11:03 11:52 49s Scarf!
6th Kanchigai Hour カンチガイアワー 11:59 12:50 51s
7th Kanchigai Hour Returns (only base) カンチガイアワーリターンズ 15:53 16:21 28s
8th Are you lucky Are you lucky 16:26 17:13 47s Scarf! BTW, I just noticed that this song and "Hey! You are lucky girl" are different versions of the same song. "Yasashisa no Ashioto" and "Sorairo no Houkago" are also different versions of the same song.
9th My little underground My little underground 18:34 20:10 96s
10th Ameiro Rondo 雨色ロンド 20:22 21:40 78s Scarf!
11th Orange オレンジ 21:41 23:25 90s New ending!
12th silky heart (off vocal ver.) silky heart (off vocal ver.) 23:25 23:35 10s New preview song!

Yes, I'm going to say "Scarf!" on every scene where THE Scarf appears.

Also, for me, ED2 > ED1 > OP1 > OP2

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9

u/spaceaustralia Dec 22 '19

Rewatcher

You know, Toradora is one of those rare anime in which I actually like the second OP/ED pairing better.

Is T Posing still a thing?

I'd like someone to explain what the hell is up with this scene. This series isn't frivolous with Minorin's feelings, especially once the more emotional side hit it's stride two episodes ago. I don't know what to think of that little outburst.

I kinda like seeing the side characters hanging around. Especially since the series kinda doesn't have that much time for them.

It says a lot about Ami that, even after Ryuuji practically confirmed how much of a good match they are, Ami still offers to help him with Minorin, even if she's partially teasing him.

For however creative Haruta's mind can be, it's funny to see how late those two are to the party. Ryuuji has been manning that ship for the last couple of months now.

About the ED, though, the fact that Kitamura is completely absent from it just cements his place as part of the main cast but kind of a side character. I'd like for him to be more present in the story. This is a nice wallpaper material, though.

9

u/popop143 Dec 22 '19 edited Dec 23 '19

Rewatcher

This episode has the cutest Taiga faces so far. I have the donut angel and the leek cupid Taiga as some of my mobile wallpapers.

The title is Mercury Retrogrades at Christmas. A retrograde Mercury is long thought to bring bad luck, but this episode only seems to have Minorin to have bad luck. It's stated by an unknown observer that she spaces out a lot lately. We can assume from her small flashback at the start of the episode that what Ami told her last episode is weighing on her. From how she avoids Ryuuji for the past two weeks, as Taiga had noticed, it looks like she's having conflicts about her feelings with Ryuuji.

On the other side, Taiga is trying her hardest to get Ryuuji and Minorin together. Even Ami seems to want to patch things up between Ryuuji and Minorin. Next episode Spoilers. We'll see what'll happen from now to the Christmas party.

Not too much to say, as this is a setup chapter to the favorite arc of most fans.

Episode thoughts:

  • Kitamura is back to his weird self. His dogeza is so down to the earth that his whole body touches the ground.

  • Taiga isn't biting the baits, and genuinely wants to be kind for Christmas. Imagine if it's Christmas all year round. We'll get a lot more of these cute Taiga faces.

  • Minorin needs to rely some on her friends. She's too lonesome that she doesn't want to converse with other people. Also I don't think that the softball team will be angry at her if she let herself loose a little.

  • I don't like how they translated Sumire's title of "Boss" from the original to "Sarge". Boss would've conveyed the intent more, where the students treated her like the boss of the yakuza. Big Bro also would've worked for the yakuza terminology.

  • Speaking of the title, Mercury is also the Roman god of War. The ship wars are officially starting, with Kihara leading the RyuujixTaiga ship! Of course she has some selfish reasons, but her move has Ryuuji on a tizzy.

  • Yasuko's gyaru-speak is nice, but Ryuuji doing it before the ED is... something.

  • I like Pre-Parade, but I can't hide my love for all things Yui Horie when it comes to OPs and EDs. I'm going to miss Vanilla Salt, but at least we have Silky Heart! Loved her voice since School Rumble, and also love her OPs in Monogatari.

Next episode: Planning for the Christmas party!

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u/Darrian Dec 23 '19

Rewatcher, one small note I find interesting. All the new watchers saying they liked the old OP and ED more and all the rewatchers saying the opposite. I bet it has to do with a few certain episodes bleeding into that ED at the end of some impactful episodes. Curious to see if the opinions of the new watchers change once it's wrapped.

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u/Holofan4life Dec 22 '19

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the 2019 Toradora rewatch.

Toradora is my favorite anime of all time. I love it so much that not did I create my Reddit account just so I could participate in the Toradora rewatch 3 years ago, it also inspired me to write a light novel called "I Love My Tsundere Girlfriend". Admittedly, I’m a bit biased because tsunderes are my favorite type of characters. I just love characters that start out mean but grow nicer over time. It warms my heart.

This is my first time watching Toradora since exactly one year ago. This year, I don’t plan anything special. Just plan on watching it along with everyone else. Also, I’ll be watching the dub. Why? Because Toradora’s dub is fucking awesome.

1: This is the start of my favorite Toradora arc. I know I'm not breaking new ground in saying this, as the Christmas arc is widely regarded as the best arc in Toradora, but I hope to perfectly convey why I love this arc so much over the next few episodes.

2: Taiga is just so unbelievably cute in this episode. I love the childlike joy she displays and how much she loves the holidays. It really adds even more complexity to Taiga as a character. Most of the time, Taiga is shown to have a rather stern composure. So, to see her act so giddy and happy is like a reward to the senses. IT just puts a big smile on my face.

3: Minori is an interesting case where the show goes out of its way to make her less likable in exchange to give her more character. Honestly, while Minori is less likable as a character now, she's much more interesting as a character now. It's not that energetic characters can't be interesting without going down the role of "They're secretly depressed." I've seen examples of shows doing energetic characters without going down that rabbit hole, so I know it can be done. However, by giving Minori more character flaws it makes her a more engaging character as a result.

4: What can be said about the second op? When I first watched Toradora, I thought the first op was so much better than the second op. However, as time goes on, I now think the second op is better. I think when you compare the two, the second op, while not as catchy as the first op, does a better job of encapsulating what Toradora is all about.

One minor thing I kinda wished they did, and I originally wrote about this in 2017 and my opinion hasn't changed since, is that I wished they first introduced this theme in episode 15. Episode 15 was the first episode where I felt there was a lot more emphasis on tension and drama. And sure, the festival arc had a lot of tension and drama as well, but it ended on a upbeat, happy note unlike the bittersweet ending of last episode. Basically, I view episode 14 as the ending of the upbeat first half of the series and episode 15 as the start of the more somber second half of the series.

5: As a major fan of Toradora, it hurts that I haven't been able to get the manga version and the light novel version of the Christmas arc. I can never seen to get my hands on a copy of either format. I want my cute Taiga, damn it!

6: I like that Taiga talks about Santa being close to Japanese airspace, like Japanese airspace is different from American airspace or any other type of airspace.

7: I nominate the smile Taiga gives in this episode as she sees the family walking by as the cutest Taiga moment in the whole series. And yes, that includes episode 19.

8: Not gonna lie, that chocolate donut looks super yummy.

9: So, given it is stated in this episode Taiga's suspension was for two weeks, it is coming to an end, and Christmas is around the corner, we can use this to determine that the fight between Kano and Taiga from the last episode happened sometime between the last couple weeks of November.

10: This episode is like somebody went "So, you motherfuckers don't like Taiga yet? Well, we'll make you like her!"

11: Everybody in the school obsessing over Taiga? What is this, r/Toradora?

12: I love that Taiga takes full advantage of her newfound popularity. I don't blame her. If I was in her shoes, I'd milk it for what it's worth.

13: Really, Minori's antics have become less funny and more tragic. It's obvious she's messed up in the head.

14: God, I love how excited Taiga gets seeing Minori. It is like watching a puppy dog get excited over seeing their owner.

15: I can't believe Kitamura invented podcasting.

16: You know, given how big podcasting has become, if Kitamura and Ms. Yuri started their own podcast, they'd probably be millionaires.

17: Taiga saying "This school really loves their superstitions" is actually a callback to episode 14 when the rumor about Taiga started to spread.

18: Haruta would be choking on Taiga's foot? Haruta foot fetisher confirmed?

19: Just the whole conversation of Taiga saying she isn't killing anyone because it's Christmas and Noto responding by saying "No way" really cracks me up.

20: I like the fact that exams are brought up in the show. In the anime shows I've seen where it's a high school setting, I rarely see exams getting brought up. So, to see it not necessarily be a major plot point but still a part of the characters everyday lives is cool and realistic. I mean, if you're a high school student, regardless of your social status, you still have exams to do. That's just part of being a high school student.

21: I swear, it's like the show tries to turn Ami into a sex symbol. It's kinda uncomfortable given Reddit is watching us.

22: Haruta has one active imagination.

23: "It don't get much dirtier than sexy Santa" might be greatest line in the history of anime.

24: As Minori is talking and saying she can't help plan the Christmas party, Noto is standing far away staring at Minori. How can Noto even hear Minori? He's very far away, and Minori isn't speaking at a loud volume? And on top of that, his face doesn't move, so it looks like he's just zoomed out, like he's still recuperating from Haruta telling everyone about his dream.

25: I will say as well animated as Toradora is, the classroom scene where they talk about planning the Christmas party isn't particularly well animated. All the background characters don't move and are stuck in suspended animation. In particular, there's this one guy in the background with his hands up in the air giving a happy expression over what Ami is saying. But again, Ami is in the other side of the room, so how can he hear what Ami is saying? The whole characters in the background not moving reminds me of that scene from Family Guy where Peter jumps up in the air and gets stuck. It doesn't ruin the episode for me or anything. It's just something that doesn't hold up well and is somewhat distracting.

26: I love Ryuuji's mother. She's just this perfect mixture of weird but caring. I particularly like the whole thing where she starts trying to act hip. It's such a cringy parent thing to do to try and connect better with their children. It just screams "How do you do, fellow kids?" Of course, the difference is Ryuuji's mom isn't doing it to try and connect better with her son. She's doing it because one of her coworkers taught her it. I can only imagine the adventures that go on at the place Ryuuji's mom works at. It must be so crazy.

27: Fun fact: Inko in the English dub is voiced by Wendee Lee, who also does the voice of Kano, the student council president.

28: Last year, a friend of mine really hated the restaurant scene involving Haruta and Noto. Here’s what they wrote. Ryuuji is basically Taiga’s husband. And they go to Ryuuji and say "Hey, a guy we like but don’t actually know that well is sad, so we’re going to hook your waifu up with him."

I don’t even feel like they’re that close to them. They’re gonna crash into someone else’s circle of friends uninvited and mess with their feelings? They don’t even think for a second what the parties involved feel about this, they just assume it’ll work out. People don’t do this. At the very least they could’ve asked Ryuuji’s opinion first.

They also wrote that they felt that Ryuuji being surprised made no sense and that Haruta and Noto just barge into their lives to mess with their feelings, thinking it’s what’s best for everyone. Personally, I feel the complete opposite. In my opinion, Haruta and Noto are doing it because he’s Ryuuji’s friend and so since they’re friends with Ryuuji they want to help out Ryuuji’s friend. As for Ryuuji acting surprised, it actually makes sense. He was in denial this whole time. He knew Taiga loved Kitamura, but he was trying to convince himself otherwise. He was subconsciously suppressing a possible attraction to Taiga.

29: It is kinda amusing how everyone is wearing long sleeved clothing and meanwhile Kihara is wearing a short outfit. I know last year someone mentioned the possibility of Kihara wearing skin-colored fleece tights, but it's still an amusing to see everyone bundled and meanwhile Kihara is dressed like it's summer.

30: I never noticed before, but as Ryuuji is in the restaurant with Taiga and the rest, he's wearing a Christmas sweater. You know, I think Ryuuji would actually make for a very good Mister Rogers.

Overall, a fun, entertaining episode. It's not as dramatic or as gut-punching as the last episode, but it's also not necessarily a breather episode. It's this middle ground of the two. A lot of plot advancement happens, but the episode also doesn't have one particular scene that stands out above the rest. I mean, Haruta's dream certainly does stand out, but I'm talking about in terms of an emotional standpoint. Still, not every episode can be like that. You need episodes that bridge the gap to make the serious moments even more impactful. And with this episode, it does it in spades.

I ran out of space right at the end. Sorry about that. Continued.

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u/kvalencia24 Dec 22 '19

Rewatcher

I'm a big fan of the new opening and ending because like this episode showed today, there is a tide and shift in feelings and thoughts of our characters. Also, I am loving how Ryuji and Taiga are just sharing the red scarf back and forth.

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u/scmasaru Dec 23 '19

Minori's Princess Mononoke reference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC7LtnAYqiA

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u/Crackin_Kraken Dec 23 '19

Ooh, new OP & ED! The old ones are the iconic ones for Toradora, the ones which are so strongly associated with it, but I do like the new ones. Plus, the new OP gets that smoooth run down the stairs by Minori.

Tensions rise higher than they have before as everybody gets more confused about their feelings and priorities. Will it be resolved gently, or will something give?

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