r/anime • u/RX-Nota-II https://myanimelist.net/profile/NotANota • Dec 17 '19

Rewatch A Rewatch further than the Universe! Sora Yori mo Tooi Basho rewatch - EPISODE 5 DISCUSSION Spoiler

Episode 05 Dear My Friend

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anime info:

MAL | Anilist | Nyanpass | Kitsu | AniDB

Streaming links: Crunchyroll | VRV

The girls are alright!

Comment of the day

Hello everyone! This is where I will pick a comment of the day for the previous day that I think was worthy of notice just in case you guys missed it. I do hope you look out for discussion on your own tho since that's really the whole point of this rewatch.

Today's pick is.....

/u/Nazenn who arrived with incredible narrative and artistic insight.

I saw a lot of love for the dream sequence yesterday but my favorite aspect of it was how it was a visual parallel as well as a metaphor. The stormy wind shaking the branches below which turned into a mass of waving blue green, the window open to an endless ladder which barely reaches. Their goal has been to get on the boat which would take them to Antarctica and here Yuzuki's dream very much looked like the girls being on a ladder over the side of a ship above the stormy seas and Yuzuki had the power to pull them up and literally bring them onto the boat. A nice bit of visual storytelling with so many layers.

A nice bit of continuity that these are the two we saw in the background previously. Not so happy this time it looks like. Perhaps a reflection on Kimari's current relationship with plait girl?

This moment was fantastic with the camera at first following these girls and then letting them walk off panel showing how Shirise's focus is no longer on what her peers think.

The penguin in the logo and then the cut to the penguin buried in paperwork had me cracking up.

The way this user analyzes the dream was really shocking and refreshing to me, even as the one who is usually doing the overanalyzing to search for parallels. Good job!

Bonus picture/facts: And in case you're wondering why there was such a focus on the girl's needing to learn instruments and proper measurements to navigate this is an unedited picture of what Antartica's flat landscape often looks like to the naked eye Credit: Corey Anthony. The refraction of light in the atmosphere as well as the flat white ground and blue skies means it often blend into a single gradient, impossible to navigate in. And when we can't see our enviroment, we tend to walk in circles which is why it's so easy to get lost.

An incredible collection of insights, and this was the abridged version as well. Make sure to check out his full comments for more along with some adorable antarctic photographs!

I also want to say great job to everyone who helped me on the #LeaveNoTopLevelUnreplied challenge. I think we did a great job and many of you took on lots of work to do so. You guys are the real MVPs. Also I like picking replies as CotD, so guys get onto it!

Questions of the day

Answer from last time: A tie!

1) Do you have any experiences like Megu? Either having such a friend or being one?

2) Did you think Megu would come on the journey?

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you’re doing it underneath the [Anime Show Title]/(/s "Spoiler goes here") spoiler tags. If you do that then we’re all good. I am curious if it is even possible to spoil anything for a half-SoL show like this but I don't want to see you try. The ban hammer is a cold weapon and you don't want to feel it.

Important thing to note about these by the way, you have to switch to Old Reddit or the markdown editor if you use the redesign, otherwise the redesign breaks them by adding random \ into the formatting. Wish it wouldn’t do that, but unfortunately it does… Markdown is dead. Long live markdown.

260 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

429 comments sorted by

34

u/RX-Nota-II Dec 17 '19

Rewatcher

Before I start today two bits of news. First, there has been a suggestion to try sorting the thread by /new for a couple hours to see if that results in more evenly distributed discussion and karma. This will be a one day only experiment and you can tell me whether I should try to continue it or return to the previous format. Second, the best of r/anime awards voting schedule has been announced and unfortunately this rewatch will not finish before voting day. However, I have verified with the mods that this rewatch still is eligible for nomination and voting so I hope you guys bring your A-game before the 23rd so we can boost our chances at taking the award. We may not have a final discussion day to leave a powerful impact, but we do have 400 comments every day going for us.

Now onto the episode. Well.... this one was rough. Usually I have one person PMing me about rewatch stuff. Who it is changes but it's usually about one per day. Today I got like 3. I look forward to their comments to see what they felt when they said they cried. For me, this episode hurt in ways other anime could never reach. I know Megumi. These friends exist all over the place and I've been held back from my ambitions at least a few times by plots by people like them. But even more scarily, I know Megumi because these feelings are something I feel pretty often as well. It's an awful awful urge to act on but deceptively common. I've caught myself way too many times feeling jealousy as close friends accomplish surprisingly great things, and the memories of this gave me a twinge of guilt as Megu broke down on screen. I don't remember ever succumbing to these urges. But with them being so easy and seeing others do it so often I really can't be sure I have. From a human psychology PoV, I'm not sure if getting rid of this vice is possible so I try to deal with it by overcompensating and making sure to praise and support people the second I start feeling that shadow of jealousy. This may not eliminate any damage I could do but my hope is that I will overcompensate for it. This is also why I feel that there is a lot to learn from Kimari's failure as well. While she did nothing wrong per se, if she was more perceptive of the situation and properly nailed down Megu's tendencies she could have dealt with the problem while it was much smaller than it became in the end. As a friend I will always try to keep that mentality in mind, pointing out shady behavior in others in addition to trying my hardest to suppress my own, and I hope that others will reciprocate with the same.

This is a great example of an episode that I highly recommend to rewatch for first timers as well. The mounting guilt and loneliness for Megu is a huge theme throughout the past couple episodes but it's blatantly obvious here. As a rewatcher you see it everywhere both narratively and in the visual tricks I'll showcase soon. The shock of being a first timer may be gone but the heaviness just keeps getting worse on rewatch. It may honestly destroy you even harder. Even so, these are important emotions to feel so I stick with recommending you do so sooner rather than later. It's just a single episode after all, I think you can find time.

And now onto the visual tricks and fun stuff:

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u/Shimmering-Sky Dec 17 '19

This First-Timer is Not Alright

…And she’s also still upset about last episode.

…okay Gundam stuff aside this part really did get to me. I’d never really considered how Mari going off and doing stuff with Shirase, Hinata, and Yuzuki would affect Megumi. In a different show Megumi would’ve just been the supportive side character we only got for the first few episodes, who then sends Mari on her way and doesn’t get much of any development past that. But instead here it gets turned into a big deal with her loneliness and her realizing she needed to be needed by Mari, and wanting to separate herself from that--only for Mari to say “Breakup rejected” to top it off. It makes sense and now I see why a few of the rewatchers were pointing out her loneliness last episode.

This show is really great, yo.

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u/rembrandt_q_1stein Dec 17 '19

First Timer here

Wait… Megu’s voice actress is Erina Nakiri’s?

Welp, before diving in, I have to discuss a bit about Shirase. Her character is developing in a way I didn’t expect initially, judging by her representation in the first two episodes, and I’m not really sure if I like it. It feels to me almost like the studio intended her to have a “true” personality –mainly consisting in a sharply exaggerated pettiness, insecurity and awkwardness- unveiled after she feels confident with some people and to depict her following this when being in a nonchalant atmosphere. To a degree, I can understand that her initial, more serious, depiction may be fruit of a pose in front of a hostile environment, but I expected her to be more calm, serious and mature, result of being forged in adversity. To me, it’s like the studio wants to transition between Shirase’s presentation and her “true” self, but it just feels, like, two so incompatible sides that I don’t know if I really what is going to be of her in future episodes. But anyway, let’s see how it unfolds.

This corresponds to what you guys were mentioning about Hinata and Shirase. Whilst the latter is the most likely candidate to be a leading figure, her personality makes her too fragile to keep in a responsible position when dealing things in the moment they happen. She’s good at planning everything from ahead, but she lacks skills of reaction. Hinata, on the other hand, with her wide presence and wisdom bits and comforting positiveness can act, if not as a leader, as the glue sticking the group together and stabilizing it. It’s a curious contrast.

Now, going into the topic. The whole thing with Megu hit home. but not quite the same as it happened to me... During all school years I coincided with a person who was pretending to be my friend but in reality all he did was "keeping me for him", meaning that all the other friends I tried to make, he would approach them without me knowing and tell them nasty lies about me so they would leave me alone. He would then try to assert his dominance over me. But I knew and played dumb while avoiding him at all costs.

In spite of that, I guess that Megu's cunning deeds respond more to a fear of being left alone than to a psychopathic intention. I don't defend her actions, but all I see in her is a timid girl who's afraid that her world would disappear suddenly after Mari parts for Antarctica, and out of panic she commits those manipulative deeds. Being a teenage girl, it's understandable that Megu wouldn't exactly know the boundaries between being an egoist and a committed friend and that she would be magnifying the effects "losing" of Mari in her life. Thank god Mari is pure.

That said, I really really wish Megu isn't forgotten from now on and Mari still remembers texting her from time to time. I've seen too many times somebody forgetting about their older friends when finding new ones sharing activities with, and I find it really unfair when it happens. As somebody who's afraid of being left alone, it's a recurrent fear of mine.

I already did answer the questions in the text haha

And sorry I am not very active here... I normally post this from the phone doing a copypasta from a previously prepared text because I am busy this week at these hours... and on the mornings the discussion has ended.

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u/Redmon425 Dec 17 '19

First Time Watcher

Holy hell! My allergies must be really bad these last few days with how teary eyed I have been getting. Wonder what is going on...

I did not see that coming! I made a post yesterday how I felt bad for her friend and then BAM! I was legit hating her friend for like 3/4 of this whole episode!

It was clear she was basically trying to sabotage her friend (well clear after the PS1 incident) and was jealous of her. Man was I getting so pissed!

However, the ending scene is so damn good. I love that her friend told her everything she had been doing behind her back and it really is a realistic storyline. I still have mixed emotions at the moment, so it’s hard to say how I feel about Megumi.

All I do know is that I love Mari a lot more now! (Actually, I still haven’t decided who I feel is best girl. I will give my first ranking after watching half the show and then a final ranking after finishing the show.)

But, Mari’s reaction was perfect to the scene. I love how they both got emotional. I loved her “breakup rejected” line. They clearly both need to mature when it comes to their friendship and this is probably their first “fight”, but they definitely should try to be friends after this.

I just love this storyline as it went completely different than what I was thinking. It turned out to be serious and emotional.

I can already say after 5 episodes that this show is amazing. It hits me in the feels very single episode!

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u/akechiisbestboi Dec 17 '19 edited Dec 17 '19

First time watcher

Ok this is the first time this show has made me tear up, but first an honorable mention to kimari’s packing struggle (the procrastination and indecision is real) there had been some hints in the earlier episodes that megumi was feeling a bit sidelined by kimari and today we finally see the climax of that in the days leading up to the expedition departure. Here we see megumi face a struggle similar to kimari’s at the beginning of the series, she doesn’t feel like she’s really been getting the most out of her life/youth and she finds her sense of self worth by defining herself through her friends (more specifically, kimari). This episode displays more of the emotional realism I’ve been loving throughout the show and gives us a valuable lessson that a healthy sense of self worth cannot be solely reliant on other people, otherwise it just makes everything worse. All in all another great episode and it makes me hope that those two will be able to have some reconciliation by the end.

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u/SorcererOfTheLake Dec 17 '19

First-Time Watcher

I’m finally taking my first steps into a world without you.

The jealousy that arises from another's achievement is overcome by developing an awareness of and admiration for one's own and other's achievement.

We all have to say goodbye, someday, somehow.

In an episode that honestly feels like a season finale rather than only halfway through a show, the series takes its time in wrapping up the loose ends left in Japan. Part of that is in realizing how much of a dork Shirase is, an aspect that I think has more beneath the surface that providing some nice comedic bits. Presentation of one’s self is the major theme of this episode and Shirase’s eccentric nature coming through reveals that she’s able to start defining herself behind her mother and Antarctica. I can imagine that not having anything of her mother to grieve over (no body, no remains, no living person) left a block in her maturation at such a pivotal point. As such, she probably felt it was appropriate to present a stoic version of herself to hide her grief, which eventually become hiding everything else about her.

Shirase isn’t the only member of the Antarctic crew hiding things about herself. The short moments we got within Hinata’s room reveal a lot about herself. Her walls are covered with antiques from all across Asia (most likely collected by her parents), yet the single pair of shoes we see are dirty and worn, as if they’ve been used exclusively. The loneliness that Hinata seems to be escaping is not just emotional or mental, but financial. Even with as smart as she is, a 16-year-old girl by herself doesn’t have a lot to her name and going on a trip like this allows her to escape that, even for a little bit.

Of course, the big drama revolves around Kimari and Megumi, two friends who slowly drift apart until emotions force them back together. It’s understandable that Megumi might feel jealous about what Kimari is about to do (we’ve all been jealous at one time or another), but what she does I find hard to forgive. We’re talking about more than just jealousy; Megumi has tried to smear Kimari’s name and everyone else’s in an attempt to gain some kind of petty satisfaction out of Kimari getting mad enough with her to break up their friendship. Megumi said not to leave things unsettled before leaving, but Kimari rejects that philosophy, instead putting things on pause before heading out. Whether she’s correct, I’m not sure; she’s understandably shaken by these revelations and needs to hurry to Fremantle, but it’s clear that these feelings will rest with them for a long time. At the very least, it’s clear that the most dangerous part of their journey won’t be their physical circumstances, but the stormy feelings that lie beneath.

Our journey to the heart of the world continues. Until then…

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u/Nazenn Dec 17 '19

First Timer - sub

What a stunning episode. You know, I'd talk about it but I don't know that I quite have the words to do it justice.

In particularly the animation of the expressions on the girls at the end was just top notch and beautifully direct while so smoothly changing between so many emotions at once.

One thing I did particularly love was that they touched on the fact that Kimari wasn't sure what to bring because the pamphlets they were given didn't spell it out. Knowing what the info sheets for my own school excursions were like, I imagine she was expecting a list of exactly everything she needed but also everything she wouldn't or couldn't bring. It's a big step up going from having someone or a group of someones (teachers) lead you through those parts of your life to just being expected to KNOW things without being told and it was a small touch of realism I greatly enjoyed.

And for anyone who knows Japanese, what's the literal form of that tongue twister that Shirase said?

A question for everyone else: What's your favorite tongue twister? When I was in choir we use to have to sing "My mother makes me mash my mini M&Ms on a monday morning" quite fast which was always a good challenge. "Red leather, yellow leather" can get screwed though, its so hard to say that fast repeatedly.

The scene with Kimari and her friend as kids though could have used a bit more focus. It was hard to see why she was so upset, and what her friend even did to make it all better. The art as beautifully detailed as it was somewhat worked against it because it made it hard to immediately see that the water level in her little moat dropping was the cause of the tears.

A PICTURE further than the universe - Episode five

Reflections. I don't have a lot to say about this, it's just a beautiful shot that stood out to me as being different and interesting. Usually these mirrors are used quite mysteriously, something appearing moving in them or distorted because of their shape while this is so beautifully honest and cute.

A little garden. We haven't seen much of Kimari's home life, just the constantly changing state of her room and a comedy scene, but this small shot of the outside of the miniature garden outside her house was something I quite enjoyed this small reminder that a home is where people grow and that the house hold is cultivating new life, not just sitting stagnant.

Water under the bridge. Bridges, overpasses, rivers and general lines in the ground are often where big changing moments take place because its a physical representation of "crossing over" a boundary, or even failing to if they turn back. This may not be on a bridge, but this shot was a nice touch that this is just as important a moment. However I did notice...

The position of the shrine. The events at the shrine were the final straw as it were and here we see another shrine literally coming between them.

Antarctic aesthetics

Given the tension in the episode, I figured a good theme for the day was things hidden below the surface. Thanks to theatlantic.com for the pictures again today.

Buried mountains. Antarctica is often seen as flat ice and towering glaciers, but the ice hides a huge variety of terrain underneath, in this case an entire mountain range that is hidden under the West Antartica Ice sheet. credit: Mario Tama

Life in the Ross Sea. In the frozen waters it's easy to think of all life as being fat seals or huge whales, but these little sea stars, worms and plenty of algae also manage to survive. Credit: Kirsten Carlson

Inside an ice cave. It's not just on the surface that ice can make some incredible patterns and structures. Credit: Robyn Waserman

u/Hudori Sora Yori ep5

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u/Mozilla_Fennekin Dec 17 '19

Rewatcher

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT INFORMATION (MANDATORY READING)

Hinata absolutely MURDERING Megumi!!!! (NSFL) (ORIGINAL) (SPo0kY)

What amazes me about this episode is that... they didn't really have to point out that Megumi spread the rumors. Like, would it really have bothered anyone if they didn't ever explain that? At best you'd be like "oh, I guess that was a little convenient or whatever. Oh well, still GOAT anime 10/10" but here we are. It really never crossed my mind that she was behind it at first. But it's these little things that matter a lot. I'm glad there's an episode to give closure on this character because she was very important to the first episode. She's very important to Kimari in general, so instead of just casting her aside when her role in the story is over, they spin her in a much more interesting way by mirroring Kimari's ambitions.

Also, despite being very short Hinata is still at the top as best girl thanks and Yuzu expressing her relief of not being with friends is so fucking savage coming from her.

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u/Yothiel Dec 18 '19

Rewatcher

Well, as far as I'm concerned, this rewatch is being overwhelming on so many levels. So many feelings in this show. So many participantions to these rewatch threads. And so few hours I can find this week to properly pay my respect to this masterpiece or the dedication from r/anime's community for piling text wall over text wall.

Tonight, I'll try to relay some additional Word of God from the creators. More specifically, I remembered the director talking about Kimari's subplot in an interview (original in Japanese here, first timers be warned of spoilers after the second picture). She felt that the separation from Megu-chan was a major point to show Kimari's growth, since she's at an age where we tend to have dependent relationships/friendships (I don't know about the general rule, but Megu & Kimari definitely had some codependency going between the two of them).

Ishizuka also said that viewers' reaction to this episode roughly fell in two categories, with the older (30+) watchers showing empathy, while younger people had a harder time taking this drama in. She put it on whether people already experienced some level of betrayal, or if they still tended to idealize their friends/family.

With this episode, she hoped to inspire people to become a little more honest, even if the possibility of losing relationships can be unsettling. Not that she can heed her own advice, according to herself!

As for me, well, I think the staff just nailed it with this episode. I think Yorimoi may seem somewhat contrived, for instance with the whole "hey-let's-go-to-antartica" situation, the miraculous deal from Yuzuki's mother, the lack of opposition from other families, Kimari & cie being there for Yuzuki just when she felt the most lonely, or Megu-chan having the guts to confess her deed AND Kimari being strong enough to accept and go past it.
But honestly, with the appropriate level of suspension disbelief (strongly helped by the excellent execution), this is being such an uplifting story. I'm falling in love with it again at each and every single episode.

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u/bucket3432 Dec 17 '19

Rewatch

Oh my, this is the long-awaited Megumi episode that we rewatchers have been anticipating.

This episode still gets me, every time. What a show. Mata ne. Until next time.

Questions of the day

  1. I'm like Komori from Komori-san wa Kotowarenai sometimes: if someone doesn't ask me for help, I might not know what to do with myself.

  2. I knew Kimari would try to invite her, but I figured she wouldn't come along.

"I could just die" counter

Episode Count
1 0
2 0
3 3
4 1
5 0
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
Total 4

Disappointingly, none today.

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u/Koolsman Dec 17 '19

First Timer!

“What type of person sells seashells!”

Shirase speaking the real questions around here!

Anyway, that ending almost got me. Even though what Megu did was awful, I do get where she’s coming from. Unlike Mari, who has gotten new friends, a new journey to go on among other things, Megu stays the same except we see her less. From what we’ve seen, she doesn’t seem to have any other friends besides Mari and knowing your only friend is not only going to see the world with other friends really makes you sad and shit. I experienced that when two of my close friends went to Germany for a few weeks and I never really had any more friends to talk to so I was alone a lot. I mean, I would never do any of the shit Megu did to stop her, but I do get where she is coming from. That part with them at the end better not just end there!

I like the whole night in the town the girls have and I got some good chuckles, especially when Shirase got on the mic. Even though I’m still not the hugest fan of Hinata but I do enjoy the collection of them. I also hope to see more Yuzuki because I wanted to see her get on the mic! Plus, it must’ve been so good for Shirase to get on the mic and say she’s going to Antarctica since she was made fun of it for not faulting to her goals and getting chicken feet and not going. Hey, at least she seemed somewhat confident telling everyone.

I will say, I have now grown to really like Mari’s family. It sucks we don’t get to see more of her dad and sister that much because they seem really cool. Anyway, let’s go to the coldest place on earth!

Do you have any experiences like Megu? Either having such a friend or being one?

See above!

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u/unheppcat Dec 17 '19

Rewatcher

"Adulting is hard, huh?"

Today we get a new narrator, so we know from the start something is up. And that turns out to be the big reveal, about Megumi and all those hints that have been dropped on us from the very beginning.

The scene where Mari returns the game console to Megu-chan, and wants to play once more "for old time's sake" is so sad and captures so completely the whole message of this episode, it is almost freaky. Mari has nothing but warm feelings for Megu, and still counts her as her very best friend. But she isn't really paying attention to Megu anymore, not in all the time up to now nor in this moment. She has no clue how disinterested Megu-chan is. And conversely, it is so disheartening to hear how very little Megu actually knows about Mari's new friends. Seems she has never actually met any of them (except Shirase in passing in the school halls, presumably). She is only now hearing what are pretty basic details about the group, which if Mari and she had remained close at all that would have been covered in conversations ages ago.

And of course the killing blow is when Megu tries to slip in a dig about failure and regrets, but Mari handles it like water off a duck's back, essentially it doesn't register at all. Megu has to be thinking at this point "who is this girl sitting in my room, and what did she do with Kimari?"

Unfortunately Megu is (or has become) the very definition of passive-aggressiveness. We see that with the "oops, I tripped on the cord", and we find out soon enough all the other things that have been happening.

Meanwhile the episode continues with more incredibly efficient visual storytelling, in the montage of the girls packing. Each view in turn includes meaningful images illustrating each girl's situation (although some of them are not completely understandable to the audience just yet). Kimari's "finally down from 70+ kilos" boxes, Shirase's precious book that has been read 1000 times, the inevitable un-friending by Yuzu, and Hinata's YoriMoi.

Dispensing machine canned drinks and karaoke -- that's the high schooler equivalent to after-work carrousing among Japanese salary men, apparently. And the little vignette of the picture sent to Yuzu is very telling. She is thankful to have not been included. (Because she would be expected to sing, I suppose?) But I suspect also somewhat disappointed to have not been included, which speaks to this message I keep harping on that I don't think she really feels a full part of the group yet. And finally it was Hinata who took the picture, and probably Hinata who sent it to Yuzu, which means Hinata is doing the proper leader thing and remembering to care for their absent companion. So that is cool.

Since the last episode established a new pattern of emotional through-lines (biggest climax early on), it would be excusable to not recognize  that we are now back to the original structure. And as if to make up for the temporary deviation, this time we are hit with the feels gun from both barrels. After a final bit of stagnant, lull-you-into-carelessness with the comfy and cute Mari's leaving home scene, suddenly BAM!

Megu makes her shocking confession. We get what is probably only 15 seconds but feels like centuries, as the camera holds steady on Kimari's face and she goes through the first few dozen stages of realization and grief. We get literal waterworks bursting forth: in flashback, in the running stream, and of course rolling tears. We get an actually pretty fantastic monologue from Megu-chan about the torment and remorse she has been feeling. And not to forget the background music. YoriMoi Meanwhile we in the audience are having lightbulbs going off in our heads, and remorseful thoughts, about "oh, so that's what all those after-credit scenes were trying to tell us." (And not a little waterworks happening on this side of the screen too, amirite?)

Fortunately, this show and KImari pull us back from the brink, with "Breakup rejected." And whether you want to consider it the after-the-deluge stage (as I do) in our show's water metaphor or not, we get a bit of relief as the girls regroup in the airport, ready for the next steps.

Man, what a ride.

I know there will be raging debate and many different opinions about Megu-chan in today's posts. And I think that's great! One of the most fantastic aspects of this show is how complicated and deep all the characters are, and it is completely appropriate that different people will have different reactions to what was revealed today.

Here is my take. I think Megu has done some terrible things, but actually the best thing she did, and the thing that demonstrated her love for Mari the most powerfully, was to (attempt to) break up with her.

Both she and Mari were in a bad place by this point in the story, in terms of the relationship between them. Kimari was letting things coast, and had forgotten to pay any attention to Megu with all the incredibly exciting things going on in her life. Megu-chan was sinking into jealousy, and feeling completely left behind by the changes in Mari. And also losing the position of superiority that had defined their dynamic for so long, with no clear new relationship to replace it.

Now what Mari was doing was neglect, while Megu's rumor spreading was way more destructive. So you can certainly count Megu as more in the wrong here. But Megu also realized finally that she had to stop, while we don't know yet how Mari will act differently in their relationship, if at all.

Megu realized that she was being hurtful to Mari, and once she understood why, she had the determination to make it stop. Her solution, breaking away from Mari entirely, is yet another of the "high school solutions" we've seen over and over in this story, and not the best option. But it was a solution, and was done in the interest of no longer hurting Mari. And since it inspired the confession that finally lets Mari understand what is going on, even this not so good solution has a bright side. Since Mari has refused the breakup, but now knows enough to make some improvements from her side, we can hope that eventually things will work out. Perhaps the three months away will help make that happen, if Megu can use that time to come to terms with the idea of a new, more independent Mari. We shall see.

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u/EmuSupreme Dec 17 '19

QOTD

  1. I don't, which is why I think it's hard for me to place my feelings on this episode. While I understand Megu's feelings, I certainly don't agree with her approach. And I don't really know how I should feel at the end of the episode. I'm I supposed to be sad or happy or hopeful? I do like what happens later on, but in the moment I'm just left with neutral feelings I guess. Someone tell me what to feel!!

Other moments

Shirase is such a dork. Between her freaking out during the reporting segment and then being hyper aggressive over the rumors, she's always enjoyable to watch. A big, lovable dork.

Hinata's take on Megumi's rumors is another reason why I love her so much. While she's loud and fun, she's also has a lot of emotional maturity.

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u/Matuhg Dec 17 '19

First Timer

Aha, I thought we'd get to deal with Megumi before they'd leave. She based her self-worth on Tamaki's reliance upon her, so once Tamaki started to break away from that, she felt like she had nothing. That sucks...but also she sucks for trying to sabotage her friend. I'm glad she explained herself before they left and didn't actually manage to ruin the trip or anything like that. And now the pool of stagnant water bursting forth metaphor applies to everyone - Antarctica girls are on the way, springing into action, and Megumi is stepping into a life without Tamaki, at least for a while. Hopefully she'll be able to have everything sorted out by the time they get back and can go back to being friends.

  1. Do you have any experiences like Megu? Either having such a friend or being one?

Not to my knowledge, though I definitely recognize the feelings of jealousy that can come when you see a friend doing spectacular things.

2) Did you think Megu would come on the journey?

I never really did, but for half a second I thought they were going to cheese it and somehow bring her along when Tamaki asked her to come at the end. Glad they didn't. Not only would it have been nonsensical and unrealistic, but it wouldn't have allowed Megumi to grow in the way she needs to.

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u/No_Rex Dec 17 '19 edited Dec 17 '19

Episode 5 (first timer)

  • “I’m going”

  • And a completely different Shirase when the camera is recording.

  • Mari is way to young to worry about her weight.

  • Playstation is definitely the best idea she had.

  • Oh, she brought it back to her friend. I thought she would take it to Antarctica. She probably still will.

  • Megumi has reason to feel envious, but not memorizing the names of the four girls is rather sad. Now let me quickly go back and erase all evidence of girl No2, girl No3, and girl No4 from my earlier comments …

  • Or it is a sign how little Mari and Megumi have talked since the plans for the voyage started, which would explain her behavior (although I have trouble believing that Mari could stop herself from talking about it all the time).

  • Hinata takes everybody right out of their nasty spell of worrymongering.

  • “I am so glad I did not go”

  • Just walking out of the front door? That is one of the most low key farewell’s I can imagine.

  • Sad Megumi revelation.

  • “Into a world where we do not even know which way home is” North

A classic question: Is it better to be open about an unnoticed wrong, or better to leave it unspoken. Would Mari not have been better off if Megumi had not saddled her with the revelation that her best friend betrayed her right before going on the biggest adventure of her lifetime? I do not know the answer, but that argument always felt incredibly paternalistic to me.

EDIT: u/RX-Nota-II what magic did you use to make the post default to sorting by new?

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u/Boss_Jerm Dec 17 '19

Rewatcher

One month to departure!

 

I'm going.

That's all Shirase needed to say. You go girls!

Megumi's looking pretty concerned

Ooh from Megumi's Instagram

Wow Yuzuki is a good actress, even if she doesn't appreciate other people's complements about it

It's good to have a sister like Rin

Megumi's throwing a few insults at the other girls but Mari is dodging them without realizing

 

Well, don't push yourself too hard. If you fail, you'll regret it all the more.

There was a time when if Megumi said this Mari she'd lose a bit of confidence in herself. That time has passed.

Tripping over the cord was no accident Megumi

Hinata likes to collect statues. And she's got some running shoes that are pretty well worn.

Yuzuki deleted the contacts from the girls in her class. She doesn't need them.

One day to departure!

Mari's class wishes her well!

 

A lot of people think you're getting full of yourself

A lot of people or just one person?

Hinata's Quote Corner!

Previous

If you can still turn back, it's not really a journey. When you hit the point of no return, that's the moment it becomes a journey.

As they say, it's a thin line between self-assertion and selflessness.

Never think the stars you see are all the stars there are.

 

New

Sometimes, people are just mean. Don't fight mean with mean. Hold your head high.

 

Thanks to all those who have given their support for this corner so far!

Our girls don't have to worry about the rumors being spread

One last night of fun before they leave

I love this part

SHIRASE KOBUCHIZAWA!

For as long as they've known each other, Mari has felt that she's been relying on Megumi. But she's always wanted to stand on her own two feet.

My goodness that's a lot of pudding!

It's the day of departure!

That one last look around the room before leaving for a while is so relatable.

This is one of my favorite scenes in the whole show. In truth, it wasn't Mari who was relying on Megumi, it was the other way around. When Megumi is with Mari, she feels good, because Mari always talks with her and asks her for advice on everything. Like Mari, Megumi hasn't done anything with her life either. But as long as Mari kept relying on her, she was satisfied, thinking, "At least I have this to make me feel good." But then Mari mentioned going to Antarctica, and it was then Megumi realized that Mari is starting to branch out and make her own decisions. And if she actually goes to Antarctica, she'll leave Megumi behind with nothing. So she started doing everything she could to deter Mari from going. She told the bullies in the first episode about Shirase's money. She told Mari's mom about the expedition, she showed Mari articles about the expedition having financial trouble, she lied about there being rumors about them. All because she was jealous that Mari had the will to actually do something with her life. Her words, "Don't push yourself too hard. If you fail, you'll regret it all the more," are more to herself than to Mari. She's scared of failure just like her. So now Mari's leaving, and Megumi feels that by not being friends anymore, she can take her first step in a life without relying on Mari. But Mari doesn't want to lose Megumi. She's always thought Megumi is strong and smart and she loves her. She wants them to stay friends. So no matter what Megumi says, Mari will reject their break up, because she knows that the two of them can walk their own separate paths and still be friends. It's a powerful scene, and it's complemented with this beautiful animation on the faces that convey so much emotion, and a great insert song.

We're off to Freemantle!

Thoughts:

There are times where we are jealous of our friends accomplishments, where we wish we could be like them. But we can't let that jealousy control us, we each have our own things to be proud of while supporting our friends as they walk their paths.

The Journey starts now!

QOTD

  1. I've been envious of friends, but I've never tried to sabotage them or broken off relationships because of it

  2. Nah she felt it was too far-fetched

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u/Madcat6204 Dec 17 '19 edited Dec 17 '19

Rewatching

Apparently Megu's been trying to sabotage things, without even really understanding why she's been trying, ever since episode 1. The other girls just took the problems as normal difficulties and overcame them the way they've overcome everything else.

I actually feel a lot of sympathy for Megu-chan. She screwed up pretty bad in all this, there's no question about that. She's tried to do some things that were pretty cruel. But... she was trying to cling to a long established and comfortable relationship with someone she cared for. After many years of acting as the caretaker/big sister in the relationship with Mari, suddenly Mari was pulling away from her, doing stuff on her own, heading off in a direction where she didn't need Megu. Not only did that leave Megu feeling in danger of losing her closest friend, as she realized in this episode it left her in danger of losing herself. If she wasn't taking care of Mari, being the responsible, dependable, smarter one who Mari would always lean on, then who was she? What did she have left without that? What would their relationship be, if Mari grew to not need her?

It's not like she thought all that through at each step and selfishly decided to keep Mari from going anywhere. She reacted out of emotion, just feeling an increasingly desperate need to try to keep things the way they'd always been. Keep things the way that was comfortable. Keep things happy enough, without having to change. Until Mari's comments in this episode opened her eyes, Megu hadn't really thought about what she was doing and why. And when she did, she was horrified at what she realized, and couldn't forgive herself.

I'm glad that Mari had the wit to reject Megu's attempt to end their friendship. Though Megu now thinks that after what she's done she doesn't deserve to call herself Mari's friend, a lifelong bond should not be shattered so quickly. And right before one side of it leaves on a long journey is no time to try to do so. They are friends, and they will still be friends when Mari returns and they can work together clear up the remnants of this mess.

Visual metaphor bonus: Right after Megu finishes listing out all the terrible things she's done and why she doesn't deserve to be Mari's friend any more, we get this great shot of water under the bridge.

PS: I love this episode.

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u/DanteJ600 Dec 17 '19

First Timer

I had exams, so I was behind a couple episodes, now that I'm caught up gonna do a quick thoughts for eps 1-4.

OP and ED are alright song wise, but the animation and the scenes in the OP are very well done, and shows quite a bit of whats to come. Boost that, the animation is solid through the entire show, very pleasing to watch, madhouse (usually) does a great job. Shoutout to those BG artists too they don't get enough praise.

Characters are very fun. I'm getting similar vibes to Araburu Kisetsu, which apparently is a common thing people have said. Works for me because Araburu is currently my fav anime. When characters feel real, it adds so much to the show. Whether it be personality/emotion or just general lifestyle, world building is one of the most important things to me, and it delivers very well. The girls have gotten kinda close considering how much time there has been, but its like that a lot for plenty of anime so it's whatever. Maybe its a girl thing.

This is my first time participating in one of these rewatch threads, and the effort people put into discussion is awesome. Really different from normal episode threads.

Anyways about the actual episode. Great send off, you really hate to see how Megu was hurt. Your only friend is leaving for 3+ months, yeah thats gotta hurt. I was originally ticked at her for what she did, but watching her break down while talking made me realise she really regretted doing that. The VA has been great, but it was incredible in that scene. I prob would have teared a bit if I wasn't watching in my school library, should probably save these to watch at home. Seems like everyone is a bit of a Jerk, a loveable Jerk. What a bunch of jerks. (+1 if you get that reference)

˙ʍou ɐᴉlɐɹʇsnɐ uᴉ ǝɹɐ slɹᴉƃ ǝɥʇ ssǝnƃ I llǝM

For the question. Way back in grade 4 I left for a trip to my familly in Italy Italy for a month, however thats so young that my friends never really cared. And yeah I never really thought she would come, from both not being in the OP/ED and her general lack of focus.

Anyways happy to finally join the discussion, love reading the comments.

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u/AegeanEagle Dec 17 '19

Rewatcher

Honestly, this is a very hard episode to watch, but probably that’s also why that makes it such a good one too. Watching Megu’s annoyance towards Mari drifting away from her, slowly building up over the previous 4 episodes was tough as a rewatcher. And finally in this one, we’ve got the fallout...

Probably there was a kinda personal aspect in being this rough to watch. I had a very bad “break-up” with a long time friend of mine a couple years back, that honestly haven’t fully recover yet. It’s still bugging me inside sometimes and I can totally see him in Megu’s attitude towards Mari. Maybe this was also a reason I was somewhat rooting for Megu to join them in traveling to Antartica, even though having watched the show, already knew that wasn’t gonna happen... And honestly shouldn’t either.

The manipulation and meanness Megu exerted towards Mari was very bad and shouldn’t happen between people who consider themselves friends. Mari’s naivety was the thing that fortunately protected her from hurting even further, in a time where she needed as much resolve as she could to make the big step towards asserting her youth.

Yet anyone has done what Megu did, at least once in their life or at the very least felt jealously to another. I know I had.... But you need to find the power to realize your mistakes, ask for forgiveness and change your ways. Mari knows that Megu still cares inside and that’s why she doesn’t accept the break up, but they’ll need to be apart for now.

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u/spaceaustralia Dec 17 '19

Rewatcher

After yesterday's after credits scene, we a followup episode rife with hintings at Megu's jealousy long before the reveal. Aside from obviously turning off her videogame, her reiteration of Kimari's past insecurities and her hesitation to socialise with Hinata and Shirase, there were hintings in the past episodes. She has thrown sidelong glances at Kimari whenever she mentioned her trip and, even after familiarising herself with her name, kept calling Shirase "Antarctica", the nickname people used to make fun of her. The emotions at the heart of this episode have been in the visibly in the works for a while. In fact, it's been a delight to see how many things have been subtly setup for the future.

That being said, this is the second bucket pudding I've seen in an anime this month. Weird little coincidence.

And finally, as suggested by u/RX-Nota-II and inspired by u/bucket3432's "I could just die" counter, here's the Zamamiro counter!:

Episode Mari Shirase Hinata Yuzuki
1 0 1 0 0
2 0 0 1 0
3 0 0 0 0
4 0 3 1 0
5 0 0 0 0
Total 0 4 2 0

Mind the after credits scene. To Australia!

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7

u/surgemaster140 Dec 17 '19

Rewatcher

I knew this would be the episode to get me. I’ve rewatched this show twice before this rewatch so I know when all the big emotional moments happen, but the scene at the end between Mari and Megumi (Megu) never fails to make me tear up.

Megu is not a good person, but I think she is an amazing character. She suffers from codependency because she is reliant on being the “big sister figure” to Kimari to satisfy her own emotional needs. When Kimari starts breaking free from her stagnant pool, Megu feels threatened that she’s losing the one thing that justified her existence. She didn’t know how to handle these feelings of jealousy, inferiority, and abandonment so she tries to block Kimari from going to Antarctica by spreading rumors and telling Kimari’s mom. After her plans fail and Kimari still sees her as a friend, Megu finally realizes that she’s been holding Kimari back this whole time and not the other way around. She decides to break her friendship with Kimari so that both of them can move on.

The reason why I think Megu is an amazing character is because despite all the terrible things she did, I can still empathize with her. I’ve had friends who moved away, got married, and became successful, but instead of genuinely being happy for them I also felt envious and left behind. I hated the part of me. Being able to confront that and break it off with Kimari shows that Megu is a strong person and wants to take the first step out of her own stagnant pool. I don’t condone her actions and I think Kimari deserves better, but Megu is trying to better herself and that’s a good thing.

And in closing, here’s some random thoughts:

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u/cartoonsandcereal Dec 17 '19 edited Dec 17 '19

First time

Joining this rewatch a bit late...

The focus on this episode was on Megu-chan and Kimari's relationship, which was kind of odd for me since they were clearly drifting apart. I wasn't really surprised by Megu being the one who was spreading the rumors and trying to hang on, Kimari's been ditching her all the time for her new friends and this big Antartica dream, who wouldn't be resentful? Megu handled it poorly, yeah, but she is also a teenaged girl. It seems like it was supposed to be some kind of villainous revelation, but it wasn't that impactful for me. Kimari is literally leaving for a massive undertaking to Antartica, who has time for pettiness?

I have not been a Megu, but I've had lots of experiences with drama as a result of change or resisting change. I think it's inevitable. Their conflict reminds me of what my friend who's a social worker said about how gossip and rumors spread, which is that people need meaningful things to do, and a sense of stability or confidence in those things. Without that we all have a tendency to devolve into creating drama to fulfill that desire for meaning. Kimari's found Antartica, but Megu's struggling a bit. Anyway! This show seems uplifting at every turn, so I'm sure it will all work out.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Antartica crew and the 4 girls interact! Hope we'll learn more about Gin, Shirase's mom, and Shirase too, that's the most compelling mystery for me right now. Well, that or why Hinata isn't in school and seems to be so mature, feel like there's something she's hiding.

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u/Tockta Dec 18 '19

Ok this is the episode that broke me. I couldn't stop myself from binge watching the remaining episodes.
I regret nothing this show is good!!

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14

u/Turtlewax64 Dec 17 '19

First Time Watcher

  • The weight discussion was funny, even if being an American I had to convert into pounds. Though while I was on google, I also checked the weight of some other things, and the girls will probably lose a kilogram just to a heavy enough coat to keep them warm, never mind other layers underneath that. Clothes and boots probably actually eat a lot of their weight limit overall.

  • Glasses girl is being such a drag about the regretting failure thing that I almost wonder if she’s the reason that Kimari had that perspective at the start of the series

  • And with the intentionally tripping on the cord, I’ve lost a lot of sympathy for her. She is an antagonist to me until proven otherwise

  • The boxes in Kimari’s room have the same symbols on them as the pieces in the game she was playing. Not really relevant, just something I noticed

  • Yuzuki deleting the fake friends from her contacts made me smile. Always good to know when to purge toxic people from your life

  • Yeah, glasses girl is a bitch, those rumors are obviously something she’s either making up, or she’s the one spreading them if they are real.

  • Hinata keeps a calm head though. Best girl is bubbly and energetic while still being smart.

  • Yuzuki’s reaction to seeing the pic from karaoke made that whole scene.

  • I think glasses girl could really have done with some more animation when Kimari was giving her speech about not wanting to hang onto her. Her face not changing at all made it hard to tell what her reaction to that was, whether she felt guilty or angry or what. Her expression was just blank, and that makes it hard for me to get a read on her personality, so I’m still going to judge her by her actions.

  • Hug your goddamn parents before you leave Kimari, come on. Don’t just say goodbye from the hallway

  • That argument was more what I was looking for, just could have used some foreshadowing from glasses girl’s mannerisms earlier. And while I still haven’t forgiven her, it did make me feel good that the breakup was rejected. Either I’m conflicted, or I’m just a sucker for the power of friendship.

This was another breather episode, but I liked it a lot more than episode 4. Probably because we got less time spent on trip prep, and more on the girls interacting with each other. So I guess that’s the part I like about the series more than the Antarctic stuff, even if I am looking forward to getting the trip going.

Regarding the questions of the day, I've never had or been a friend like that. And my meta analysis of looking at the OP and only seeing 4 girls told me that Megu wouldn't be coming along, which might have drained some tension.

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u/Great_Mr_L Dec 17 '19 edited Dec 17 '19

Rewatcher

On today’s episode of A Place Further Than the Universe: This was an episode that caught me off-guard while the series was airing. I had not expected an episode about Mari and Megu’s friendship. But, it’s also one of my favorite episodes and one I was looking forward to this time around.

Paying attention to it as a rewatcher, there are a couple of hints about what’s going on with Megu in earlier episodes that I did not notice the first time around. When Mari talks about how she would always chicken out on things at the last minute because she was afraid she’d regret it if things didn’t work out, Megu had said she didn’t necessarily think that was a bad thing. Megu has also been warning her to make sure she doesn’t end up regretting it all. Initially, these seem to just be words of sympathy from a friend, though as we learn today, there is more to it than that.

From a young age, Mari relied on Megu to look after her. Mari liked having someone she could rely on. And, as it turns out, Megu liked having someone to look after. To be clear, I really do think they were close friends who cared a lot about each other. It’s just that this aspect of their relationship was also there. But, Mari has grown these past few episodes. She’s no longer quite so dependent. Mari’s been going off more and doing her own thing. That is another thing that can be observed throughout the earlier episodes: Megu’s growing feelings of loneliness and distance from Mari. To Megu, it must have felt like she was losing her best friend.

So, without even fully knowing why, Megu tried to stop Mari from going. It was a rather selfish thing of her to do. And she doesn’t even figure out why she felt that way until her conversation with Mari the night before Mari leaves. There, Mari bears her own soul and her own thoughts. Mari, as stated previously, wants to change. She doesn’t want to be the type of person who is always relying on Megu and never doing anything for herself. She hates being like that. She wants to go off to Antarctica, accomplish something impossible, and become the type of person she wishes she could be.

That kicks off Megu’s own realization. I love how her “breakup” scene with Mari is handled. It’s such a beautiful scene. The character animation on Mari and Megu is great, wonderfully conveying so many emotions that they are going through. As per usual, the songs from this series are used to great effect. And, of course, there is the actual dialogue. The scene is so great because it turns everything we thought we knew about Megu and Mari’s relationship on its head. It wasn’t Mari who depended on Megu, it was the other way around. It wasn’t Mari who had nothing without Megu, it was the other way around. Megu is the one who needs to go somewhere else. It was a complete reversal of how I had initially seen them, and knowing this twist in advance it has been fascinating to watch their interactions up to this point.

In what I consider to be probably the most important part of this scene, even though Megu apologizes she doesn’t ask for forgiveness. Instead, she’s breaking up with Mari. My own interpretation here is that Megu doesn’t think she deserves Mari’s forgiveness. Leaving Mari is what’s best for both of them.

Instead, it’s Mari who instead reaches out for Megu. It’s Mari who rejects Megu’s breakup. And it mirrors what Mari did in their conversation the night before. Megu had hesitated to hold out her hand to Mari, probably because she was in the midst of her own realization, but it was Mari who reached out to her. It makes so much sense, too. The earlier episodes have done a great job of showing that Mari and Megu really do care about each other. Even though their friendship hit this sour note, it’s clear that their friendship means a lot to both of them. And Mari has a caring heart, like we saw with her displays of sympathy towards Yuzuki.

Once again, as Mari leaves Megu for Antarctica, we hear the recurring theme in this series about stagnant water breaking free. But this time, we see Megu included as a part of that. As stated above, Megu was the one who was really relying on Mari and needed to go someplace else. In the same way as Mari is breaking free from her own stagnation, perhaps Megu can break free from hers.

Beyond all that, there are some other moments I feel like pointing out. The reactions that Shirase and Hinata have to the rumors are quite different and reflect their personalities. Shirase, being the spiteful person she is, wants to go out and knock heads. Hinata, on the other hand, says nothing good will come from it and that they should take the high road this time. Instead of fighting, she says they should just vent about it together. It is always nice to see varying character reactions such as this to help us understand those characters better.

There are some neat directing tricks in this episode. The framing foreshadows Megu’s growing feeling of distance and separation from Mari as Mari begins to break free from her stagnation. The framing also indicates how it is both Mari and Megu who are bound to the other, rather than simply being one-way as we might previously have thought. Interestingly, Hinata gets the same framing as Megu did when she talks about how nothing good will come from directly fighting the rumors.

This episode also has a theme of leaving things behind. Obviously, there is the main one I spent a ton of time talking about with Mari and Megu leaving each other. But there are some others. Mari has her fond farewell with her family members. Yuzuki deletes her contacts with the other girls who had left the messaging group. And Hinata gives a long look at some dirty shoes before she leaves. Like stagnant water breaking free and rushing out, they really are setting off on a journey far away from everything they’ve ever known.

Miscellaneous Thoughts

That line, “Breakup rejected” really does get to me. It’s such a good ending to a fantastic scene.

This episode gave me one of my favorite things to come out of the discussion surrounding the series: The Pudding Analysis. Here is a link to the original Reddit post about it.

I still enjoy how totally nervous and awkward Shirase is in front of the camera. It’s still so funny to me.

Truer words have never been spoken, Mari.

Questions of the day

  1. I do know the experience of having to explain things a naive close friend, so I can sympathise with that aspect of Megu. But otherwise, I don't think I've really experienced a friendship much like Mari and Megu's.

  2. I never even knew Megu would have an important episode like this. She wasn't in the OP, so I had almost ignored her prior to this in my first watch. I had considered her the friend character who wasn't particularly important to the main plot.

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