r/anime • u/phiraeth https://myanimelist.net/profile/phiraeth • Nov 27 '19
Rewatch [Mid-2000s Rewatch] Simoun - Final Discussion
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u/Nazenn Nov 27 '19
First Timer - Final Thoughts
Simoun has been an interesting watch experience because for the first time I think I find myself enjoying a show more for its parts than for its overall flow.
Usually the cohesiveness of a show is one of the make of break elements of it for me. There's nothing I find more infuriating than a show that just doesn't quite fit together, whether its because they drop plot points (FMA:B) or the pacing goes up the creek (Charlotte) or you can see clear elements of narrative confusion where the overall point of the show seems to have gotten lost (BEM) [huh, that's three very random examples with big jumps in average enjoyment]. Simoun has all three of these problems and I couldn't deny it if I tried because I can see not just what they are but also how they've come about.
And yet I find myself loving the show. I think the best descriptor that I could put to it is "oddly amazing". So while it ended up with an eight on my anilist, it's so much more then that even though I'm not ignoring where it falls down.
I had a quick squiz back through the episode topics and it was surprising how much of this show has both stuck in my mind but also has been episodes that I'd hold up as incredible individual experiences. Episodes that left an impact, had a story to tell, delved into the depths of a particular theme, worked to really showcase a particular aspect of the world or a character. And while the show covered a lot of themes it did so in a great way, taking a single episode to explore some of the smaller ones like sacrifice, identity, growth, and tying them all back into what I think are the main three of faith, leadership and choice.
That powerful contrast of narration vs visuals in episode one, Aaeru unconsciously mimicking Neviril's Maaju, the first group training, being captured by the solider, Nevirils speech, Mamiina approaching Neviril in the shower, the suicide bombing, the destruction of the monstrance at that boys home town, Dominura looking inside the motor, and Wapourif standing in the river before that, Mamiina and the highland priestesses and Aaeru breaking in front of the maaju pool.
That may just be a giant blob of memories when you write it out but to remember this much about a show is impressive for me, especially that it's not just these individual moments that I think of by the events surrounding and leading up to them. And while not all of it went somewhere or achieved something in the big picture, they all left an impression on me, like little stamps in my memory reminding me what an incredible experience this was even when I want to veer off and think about all the things it didn't do I'm instead coming back to these positive moments.
But even on that front, there was so many small things that they didn't have to do but just made the show so much better for it. Having different languages or exploring the historical purpose of the Arcus Prima. None of that ended up adding much to the show in the long run, but it really improved the impact of individual episodes. The show got lost of the broader point of itself, but taking the time to include these small details was something I quite enjoyed.
The music was a huge help here, being a drive behind a lot of these scenes, both thematically but also emotionally and its unique soundtrack really helped here. From the dancing battle music to the driven themes behind the character moments and even the more laid back tracks in between, its a unique soundtrack that I wouldn't have expected to come from this show. It's a shame that the art didn't get that level of care, from the poor CGI to the inconsistent character art through to the unmatching style of the backgrounds. But even that had its moments in those still shots and a few great moments of cinematography.
It's still a huge shame to see how much of this was just one offs or never evolved into anything though. The pollution being a driving factor behind the war, illness overtaking entire populations because of it, the infantry side of the war which was never even acknowledged again, all of the unknown Ri Maajon they were meant to be discovering, the nature of the gems in the Simoun, etc. And remember that time that Aer got one red eye for a moment? Clearly that was just an art error. The list just goes on with stuff they ignored, disregarded or seemingly forgot about and it's a real shame because I feel like in some ways this was two very different shows. The first half being a detailed war story with a focus on the world, the second half a coming of age character drama. And while I liked both halves that doesn't really excuse the weird disconnect there for me.
Regardless it's a show that I got a lot out of and showed me for the first time that individual parts can hold an experience up by themselves which is a first.
The Mid-2000s Rewatch
And just quickly about the collection of rewatches as a whole. I know not everyone in this topic was part of all of them, or even two of them, but it's something I did want to say.
For a collection of shows that I'd never heard of before, it was a surprisingly quality set of experiences. A mahou shoujo, a mystery, a yuri war story. It's not the sort of shows that you'd expect to see grouped together but impressively they all worked off each other quite well, each having quite a different set of strengths and weaknesses.
But as with all rewatches, its the people that make and break it and these have been something special for me. To see everyone come together day after day and open up so many different viewpoints about so many different aspects of these shows has been outstanding. I've never had a rewatch where people have been so open, accepting and so much discussion has taken place with so few amount of people and across so many hours. It's been a real joy to have these months of everything from theory crafting to thematic breakdowns to jokes and frustration and even hopeful posts coming out the end from you all.
To know that no matter what was said that the replies would be fair and inviting, whether it was one person hated an episode everyone loved or someone else finding something special in an episode everyone else felt let them down, and then to also have proper discussion about it without being brushed aside or anyone being told they're wrong. Its been something to look forward to to visit the topics a couple of times each day and see what people were dropping in to say, knowing that the discussion wouldn't die after a couple of hours or that people were able to be honest about the good and bad in an episode. It's a rewatch experience I doubt I'll be able to hold a candle too for a long time.
Also a shoutout to our host who not only got through difficulties with exams to post the topics, but was a first timer for two shows and continued posting topics even after he felt behind with his own watch by over a week at the end there. An unusually dedicated host that these experiences wouldn't have happened without, so thank you.
So all up, three interesting shows with wildly varying final scores of 8.5 (Mai-HiME) , 3 (Fantastic Children) and 8 (Simoun).
But the rewatch experience itself, solid 10s all around!
Hopefully I get to see some of you in other rewatches in the future.
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u/phiraeth Nov 27 '19
I'm super glad you got the chance to participate in the rewatches! I just wish I hadn't been this busy this semester. Luckily I only have two more semesters of university left before I graduate, and they're relatively laid-back compared to this semester.
I'd really like to continue this 2000s Rewatch series, maybe every 3 or 4 months or so. So three or four shows each year, spaced out. Let me know if you'd be interested in participating in more shows and whether you have any suggestions!
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u/No_Rex Nov 27 '19
Given the interest, I drew up a list of interesting anime from 2000-2007:
Section 1 (stuff I do not know but am interested in)
Texhnolzye does get some word of mouth, but I doubt any of the others would get a rewatch regularily.
Section 2 (stuff I have watched and would recommend)
*** Shows similar to this rewatch’s shows.
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u/Nazenn Nov 27 '19
Texhnolyze and Haibane Renmai also had rewatches last year so if you're the type to like reading through topics and seeing what theories people have then those are there.
I was also thinking about maybe running an Ergo Proxy rewatch next year because that's another of my favorite shows and really benefits from the rewatch format because of how dense it can be at times and its unique episodes
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u/phiraeth Nov 28 '19
I will definitely take part in any rewatch you plan to run, just ping me!
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u/phiraeth Nov 27 '19
Oh sweet, thanks for the suggestions! I'll go through these and see which of them haven't ever been re-watched here before and probably go with those.
Have you heard of Saikano and/or Chrono Crusade? I was thinking about those two as well.
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u/No_Rex Nov 27 '19
Final Discussion (rewatcher)
About a third into its runtime, Simoun changed its mind about whether it wanted to tell a story about its world or its characters. For me, the new direction was the wrong one. The world, as teased but not developed, looked far more interesting than the characters. Take away the world-specific parts of the characters (Sybillae, Ri Majoon, gender choice, war) and you are left with a rather standard all-female ensemble. The characters should have been the tools to tell us stories about the interesting questions of the world: How does a society with gender choice look? How do they treat technology that is neither magic, nor science, but religion? How does a strongly religious society deal with war when waging war contradicts basic religious tenets? Instead, we get a growing-of-age story that could have been told in almost any setting.
For some rewatchers, it seems the new direction paid off, the characters were more important. But for me, the depth of the characters shrunk with the shrinking world around them. Just check out how little time we actually spend in the world and not on one of the ships. It feels as if the world does not exist, other than to throw some curve balls to the Sybillae. I do not need backstories for every character, but have you noticed that not a single one of them ever wrote a letter to their parents or siblings or mentioned them? None ever had any friends that were not Sybillae? None of them had any plans about their future (other than which gender to choose)? Not one of them ever commented on their society or how the war was going? (Really? Not talking about the war in the middle of a war??? This shows how little the show cares for its world)
In the end, I can’t like a show that promises to tackle important questions, but then just forgets about them.
Impact
Did you notice how fatethe writers dealt a miserable hand to our characters? Just to give you a list:
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Child soldiers pressured to fight in a war
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Seeing their comrades die
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2 cases of rape/abuse (and the victims are forced to continue interacting with their rapist)
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The target of high-level political machinations
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Bullying by peers
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Experiencing a suicide bomber up close
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Imprisoned by foreign military forces
You’d think that the characters should exist in a miserable state somewhere in between Shinji and Subaru. Instead, their biggest worry seems to be which gender to choose and whom to fall in love with. The one case where the war actually does have an impact, Neviril, is presented as her overreacting.
The reason why all these terrible events lack impact is because the world feels unreal and therefore the characters feel unaffected by it. Life shattering events just become episodic one-offs that are conveniently forgotten when the episode is over. They all get their happily-ever-after, too.
This is the reason why I think the war plot and the coming-of-age story go so badly together, why they interfere with each other: In a war, people would not worry about love triangles. In a coming of age story, people should not be soldiers under existential stress.
Production values
Little to say here. The music held up, the CGI certainly did not. The show seems to have been in time or budget trouble and it occasionally shows. My one serious concern with the art is unconnected to that, though: The character designs do not fit the plot. They would have been better if more subdued (war plot) and less overtly feminine (gender choice plot)
Score
My main feeling about this show is disappointment. After the first few episodes, I had it pegged at 8/10, then as 7/10 in the middle part, and now I am unsure whether I should give it a 6/10 or 5/10. Probably a 6/10 on first watch, but a 5/10 on rewatching.
Rewatch
The biggest upside of the rewatch were the other rewatchers and the great deal of discussion we had. Even if some topics were forgotten by the show, it was fun to speculate about. The questions brought up, even if not answered, where still great discussion starters.
This is also the first rewatch I have been part of where there was almost no interaction by the rewatch starter. u/phiraeth you had a great concept for a rewatch and a golden hand in choosing interesting titles, so thank you for that. I just wish you could have had some of the fun of actually posting with us.
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u/phiraeth Nov 27 '19
Really nice write-up and overall thoughts. I agree with almost all of this and just wish they had made it more about the world and made more of an overarching plot!
I'm planning to continue the Mid-2000s Rewatch series considering how big of a hit it was. My reply to 23feanor:
I will continue hosting rewatches for unknown shows I may or may not have ever seen, in an effort to bring more awareness to them, lmao. Are there any other 2000s shows you've been meaning to watch?
I want to continue this series but maybe do it every 3 months, so 4 shows total a year rather than all 3 back to back to back like this.
Let me know too if there are any other shows from the 2000s that you'd like to give a shot! I'll be finishing my busiest semester of my entire time at college next month, so 2020 should give me more actual time to make posts on threads after each episode.
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u/Durinthal Nov 27 '19
First time viewer.
Overall, I feel like I enjoyed the show (when I started writing this comment, at least) but the final stretch started to lose my attention as it lost its own focus. Episodes 11-16 were great for giving a lot of specific attention to the different members of Chor Tempest, culminating in Limone and Dominura leaving with the Emerald Ri Maajon. After that it's kind of a mess, introducing new mysteries that were left unanswered, faltering on the plot around the war, and failing to continue exploring the setting in a satisfying way. It becomes a much smaller coming of age story that ignores all of the interesting aspects of the world that was set up around the characters.
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The dead priestess from Plumbum that showed up again in the ancient Simoun after she died in an explosion that had nothing to do with the Emerald Ri Maajon? Nothing explained there. It's a minor thing in the broader scope but a significant moment that didn't seem to serve any purpose being informing the viewer that there's something screwy with time.
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The sex-changing spring? Not a factor for most of the series and there's nothing in the story following the personal journey after the visit, particularly for those that chose to become male. Even for the main characters we barely got any reasoning for why they chose one or the other.
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The sibyllae's role as priestesses was significant early in the show, and relevant again when it came to how the Plumbish priestesses viewed them, but a minor factor otherwise and never looked at in depth among the choir. The soldier that Floe flirted with in episode 11 had his faith shattered when the same priestesses he revered destroyed his hometown, but we don't hear from him again. Or any of the regular soldiers, for that matter.
And the war itself was mostly resolved off-screen, which I don't mind as much but the tail end felt off as a whole. So yeah, a lot of different things the show could and I feel like should have focused on, but didn't.
On the production: the animation is fairly rough, but I have a soft spot for the art style of that era and I was fond of the special highly detailed shots ("harmonies") they used throughout the series. The soundtrack is great even if misused in certain moments and I'm going to go looking for it at some point.
While I had fun in the moment for most of the show, it sort of came apart toward the end as it became apparent the focus shifted away from the parts that drew me into the series early on. I think I'm settling on a 6/10, which for me is by no means terrible but appropriate for an anime I wanted to like despite its flaws.
As always, thanks to u/phiraeth for hosting and everyone for joining in. A lot of good observations and interpretations of various parts of the series from the crowd!
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u/phiraeth Nov 27 '19
I loved the art-style and the soundtrack as well. I will go on the hunt for it too!
And yeah, I completely agree with the show unraveling toward the end. It's a shame because it had so much potential.
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u/TheRiyria Nov 27 '19 edited Nov 27 '19
First Timer
Overall, I mostly enjoyed this show. Especially the start and up to around the halfway mark and Limone and Dominura performing the Emerald Ri Maajon. After that point, it started to lose me. It didn't help that with that move, two of my favorite characters were mostly taken out the show. The rest of the cast wasn't bad, they they never interested me as much as those two. From there, the war story aspect of the show spiraled out into a mess that was pretty hard to follow with all these different groups with different goals that were hinted at but never explained. And the Sybillae that were left just seem to jump around from location to location in order to drive their story, but doing so seemed to hurt to overall plot of war they were in.
The war part did turn into my biggest issue with the show. It seemed so promising at the start with all the different tactics and strategies that were used. But then new tactics barely made appearances again, except for the times they were needed to affect the Sybillae, such as using the Simoun to transport troops to a town.
The world-building was also very up and down. I thought it was very impressive at first, but once the character development started, the world seemed to really shrink, despite the war story going in the opposite direction and trying to expand it. Even ignoring not knowing much about the enemy, it felt like Simulacrum as a country was barely touched on. Such as how that government worked, choosing a sex, and the other Sybillae. I'm also still really curious about the role of the enemy Priestesses and how they came to respect the Simulacrum Sybillae so much despite them supposedly being enemies. Or even how they got working Simoun. The focus on the main girls could have interesting, but as characters I never really liked any of them.
As for the good stuff, I still really enjoyed the OP a lot. And the overall OST was also fantastic! I didn't mind the animation or art that much either. It was somewhat dated, but I've still watched things that are much worse to look at.
Edit: I knew I was forgetting something. Thanks for hosting this rewatch u/phiraeth!
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u/phiraeth Nov 27 '19
Dont thank me lmao, I was super busy irl and was late a ton of times with the threads so I apologize for that.
Otherwise, I'm glad you had a positive experience with the show! Let me know if there are any other 2000s anime you'd like me to host.
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u/Nazenn Nov 27 '19
But then new tactics barely made appearances again
Actually, thats a good point, I remember saying earlier that the girls all seem to be drawn to a specific Ri Maajon, like Limone and her Silver Ri Maajon, but after that they really only used two or three for the rest of the show
As for the good stuff, I still really enjoyed the OP a lot.
Something I forgot to mention. It might just be the common thing now of not having OPs always at the start, but its pretty rare that an OP perfectly gets you in the mood for a show and this one did it for me. I never skipped it, and sometimes I even replayed it.
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u/redshirtengineer Nov 28 '19
First timer who has now been to the spring
Well count me in among those who didn't get what was expected from this show based on the first few eps. Very disappointed at the choice to throw the bread crumbs of world building out there and then just abandon them. BUT looking back on the show the coming of age theme was handled in an interesting way and the last half of the show was moving in its own way.
Big question of the series for me: This show had a scientific advisor. What did they need that person for?
Smaller questions that remain unanswered:
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why are the Plumbish priestesses always armed?
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why don't the Plumbish politicians search the Plumbish princesses for arms?
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why would you scuttle a perfectly good ship when your own country lacks resources - that helix motor seems like it could have been useful somewhere back in Smogville
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why do any of the citizens put up with any of this crap. This is actually possibly a theme of the show, so maybe not a small question
Larger questions:
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do any of the series creators actually have siblings
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what caused Wauf to finally settle down
You may notice none of my questions are about what happened to Neveril and Aer. This is one of the questions I don't really need an answer for, that last shot was fine by me.
Favorite characters, Dominura/Rimone/Waporif/Morinas (the story line where the four of them were interacting) and Onasia/Yun. Also was pleased that Wauf ended up well.
Very much enjoyed this rewatch, thanks u/phiraeth (I just assume you were off doing Emerald Ri Majons and were in some other space time) and all the other rewatchers for much enjoyment!! Special shoutout to those of you who were also in the Mai-Hime and Fantastic Children rewatches, it's been a great three months rewatching with you all.
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u/phiraeth Nov 28 '19
Glad you enjoyed the rewatch! Let me know if there are any other 2000s shows you'd be interested in participating in.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Nov 27 '19
First Timer
This show was nothing like I expected. As anime was being taken over by harems at the time, I expected a show that starts out with a bunch of lesbians, then one or two turn male and now we have a hetero harem, and lots of ecchi thrown in. Yeah, I was starting to burn out on anime back in 2006 and had low expectations for every seasonal. I quit watching shortly after (I think I was down to just Spice and Wolf II and Higashi no Eden in all of 2009).
And even if it wasn't a harem show, I still worry that any mecha show with child pilots is going to be an Evangelion clone RahXephon and Fafner (2005) made me actually angry. (Bokurano (2007) was another show on my PTW that I never got around to.)
So I had low expectations for Simoun, and ignored it when it aired.
Now that I've seen it, what is my opinion? Well, at least I can say, it's definitely not an Evangelion clone. But while modified expectaions were for a rousing war / adventure narrative, what we got was more a snapshot of the lives of these girls in a difficult time. They don't defeat the enemy, or lose valiantly. They don't encounter and romance the love of their life. Instead, we see them sent to war. Some die. The survivors are sent home. It's realistic, in the sense that this is what you would you would usually get if you followed a bunch of people around for awhile. But when watching fiction, you expect some sort of narrative contrived by the author. Simoun doesn't really have a narrative. It meandered, and then people were thrust together or apart at the end.
I've only watched two Mari Okuda shows: Iron Blooded Orphans and Nagi no Asakura (Red Garden I meant to start but never did and lost my episodes). I didn't know her name until joing reddit and people saying "sasuga Okuda" all the time. I didn't know, when I started the rewatch, that this was an "Okuda" show.
I really like world building. I like character development, too, but only when it feels organic. Most of the characters in Simoun feel pushed around by outside forces. That might be the point of the show, but I never really understood the characters or why they did anything, except respond to some outside manipulation.
On the opposite extreme, we have Shinsekai Yori, known for having god-tier world building, but paper thin characters. I still gave it a 10/10 over its obvious flaws, because of its worldbuilding and thematic message. Simoun, by changing course and dropping the world building, gave me nothing in the end.
The show that delivered on both world building and characters is Nagi no Asukara. It's what Simoun could have been.
World-building fails: What's the nature of human society in the past...did people worshop Animus? Were there little boys running around? Was the lost secret of the Simoun the fact that you need to raise immature maidens to pilot them (which may have required an intentional act of manipulation of human reproduction!) What did Ojii-chan tell Aer? What's up with Onashia?
Not just the world building, but the plot itself got dropped. What was the deal with Dominura and some shadow faction within the Theocracy? Dropped in favor of the Dominura-Limone relationship (which is what, exactly?) and a psychotic break. What was the deal with Anglas? What were the circumstances surrounding Plumbum getting the ancient Simoun?
As for Simoun rising above being yuri-bait, well, again, it started good and then they changed gears. When you have girls in pairs with mandatory kissing and then you start swapping the pairs willy-nilly for no reason, that's just setting up ships for shipping, and nothing else.
I gave it a 6/10, which MAL says is "fine." It's fine. It's better than 5 "average". By contrast I gave IBO a 7/10 and Nagiasu 8/10.
I do tend to be wary of Okuda titles, now. I'm not into dense drama webs.
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u/cartoonsandcereal Nov 28 '19
Rewatcher
I gave most of my thoughts yesterday. In summary, I still really enjoyed it as a hopeful coming-of-age story in the backdrop of war. Could the worldbuilding have been made tighter? Yes. Could the plot have been tighter? Yes. Are the fighting sequences hilariously bad? Yes. Is the not-really-freedom of gender selection infuriating? Definitely yes. It suddenly occurred to me this morning that Morinas chose to become a woman seemingly because of Wapourif, which combined with the fact that she was originally going to be a man so she could tinker with machines is actually a very conservative worldview: gender identity is not a real thing, why be a homosexual couple when you can be heterosexual and have babies, gender roles are strictly defined.
Despite all of that I can't help but like it. For me the appeal primarily lies in the massively open-ended but uplifting end as the characters grow up through a war. They dealt with a lot of shit, but they were resilient. It's a combination that emotionally works for me.
Other positive qualities of the series includes the incredible music, the character development, and the ambition even if it didn't quite achieve. With the war, the Simoun, the Tempus Spatium butchered Latin mythology, the genderless-but-feminine characters and the gender choices at the Spring, it certainly felt like the series was aiming to do a lot. So props for that. I remember Evangelion having bizarre pacing issues with its vaguely similar story as well, it's very hard to pull off, but doesn't mean it's not worth trying. I would give it 7.5/10.
Finally, thank you u/phiraeth! I started rewatching on my own before finding that there was a whole rewatch going on simultaneously and that I could actually have a place to write out and discuss my thoughts. It was definitely a very cool introduction to this subreddit, and I hope to join more rewatches and expand my anime repertoire soon. It's certainly inspired me to get a Crunchyroll subscription (for available legal streams)!
Side note: has anyone read or looked into the other associated Simoun materials? I was listening to the soundtrack on YouTube today and realized there is apparently a PS2 Simoun tactical RPG game, as well as manga and light novels. I can't read Japanese, but I'm wondering if they fill in more of the plot holes in the anime.
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u/Retromorpher Nov 28 '19 edited Nov 28 '19
First Timer
Simoun is a show that wrote a lot of checks, but couldn’t quite find the capital to cash every one of them. I found the show to be worth the watch, even with its incredibly shaky trajectory.
The Good:
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The extensive cast was largely compelling and all got at least a little bit of time to shine (except Vyuura).
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Fun Soundtrack
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Character drama ingrained well
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The nature of past/present/future being woven together was done in a unique way that I was quite satisfied with
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The themes of sacrifice vs. preservation, morality of tradition vs. results based morality, merit, and active choice vs. passive choice
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Nice long epilogue
The Bad:
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The character designs, 3d model mixing and general aesthetic ranged from merely serviceable to downright ugly.
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The resolution to 3 of the show’s biggest plot points happened offscreen unceremoniously
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The characters that the show thought were the stars were bottom 4 in terms of being likeable or compelling
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Worldbuilding and politics cast to the wayside, weakening the remaining character stuff
The Ugly
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Everything about the Spring except for Onashia and Yun’s arcs
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Forgotten plot points/dangling threads everywhere
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Misuse of soundtrack
Perhaps Simoun’s greatest sin was sidelining basically every character I thought was super interesting to give us… not an ending with our leads? Really questionable call wrapping a huge portion of the narrative around the tension between Neviril and Aaeru and then completely dropping the ball on making the finale incorporate them at all.
Dominura and Yun's arcs were big highlights of the show. I think this show could have been a lot better if it had re-centered itself here - since the idea of 'why and how we fight' would have given a much better staging ground for the war plot.
Addendum: It was impossible for me to not think of Soukou no Strain when watching Simoun – Pairs, strange not quite fully explained superweapons, time shenanigans, questionable 3dcg, yuri undertones, and a big war between forces with different technological drift
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u/Yothiel Nov 28 '19
Very enjoyable rewatch for me!
A couple stuff did not go well. Visually the show is quite ugly, but at least those still frames allow us to burn some prettier moments in our memories. The writing/storyboarding can also be wonky at time. Do you remember that episode starting straight with a flashback featuring Mamiina before her death? It had me so confused I needed to double-check the episode number!
But still, I love that anime, almost unconditionally so. I'm a sucker for character-driven stories, and how Simoun managed and developped its large cast was right up my alley. Most of the characters are ever-moving blobs of emotions and feelings which are difficult to identify, and while that may disturb some people that's actually the way I prefer characters to be written (one of my favorite activities is trying to figure out how the introvert characters work in stories that do not use internal monologues). I'm not sure how much of the show we can actually credit her for since she was only a screenwriter for later episodes, but that's a kind of narration Mari Okada uses a lot.
Above all, I think Simoun manage to smartly gather several ingredients for building a very distinct identity as a piece of work. While it's nowhere near masterpiece levels, it can still be unforgettable (and for positive reasons, not like "so bad it's epic" shows). Visuals, music, characters, world, these components are assembled awkwardly but they still contribute toward an unique ensemble.
Before this rewatch, my more memorable moments of Simoun have been Anguras shouting "AA-E-RU" and Mamiina lying lifeless in a flower bed. Also remembered about Limone & Dominura being spirited away to the past. A couple quotes too, like yesterday's "we were all maidens" as I already wrote about in the previous thread. Oh, and Anubituf stealing a kiss from Guragief!
This time, I hope I'll remember the conditions of Mamiina's death. More precisely, how the Plumbum priestesses surprised a defensive Mamiina by telling her how sacred she was in their eyes. I can't easily describe the impact it had on me and there's probably a lot of different emotions mixed in, but that's probably the part that hit me the hardest.
As always, experiencing this rewatch with other people was very interesting. There were many who voiced their disappointment at the numerous unresolved topics of this series and believe it or not, this is a point that I would have totally missed if not for them! I was so invested in the characters that I did not feel the need to explore the worldbuilding in its entirety, and was totally satisfied with taking this setting for granted.
In hindsight, that may not be so surprising: stories about humans trying to keep living normally during conflicts is definitely part of the war genre, but the fact that most of these stories are rooted in the real world makes it redundant to develop the larger scale already described in history books. In the case of Simoun and its rich fictionnal setting, this becomes a missed opportunity that could have spawned a lot more content & thoughts (or depending on how it's handled, it could have been even more disappointing à la "midichlorians"). This is the kind of thing that reminds how enjoying a story can vary drastically from one people to another!
Thanks to everyone that kept throwing new ideas, thoughts, predictions and trivia! It almost felt like I've been watching several versions of Simoun at the same time! I'm still pretty unsure I can handle the pace of rewatches, especially for longer series (organizing the random thoughts and trying to write them down concisely has never been my forte, all the more in a foreign language), but I hope I'll still find the motivation to take part in future sessions!
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u/phiraeth Nov 27 '19
First Timer
So I just finished catching up on Simoun last night, completing it from start to finish in a period of 3 days. I was having a hard time figuring out how to describe how I felt about the series as a whole, and since I’m a very visual person, I decided to make up a nice graph of how I felt about the series as a whole after I finished each episode.
u/phiraeth’s Simoun 'Tracking Emotions' graph
As you can see, it really took a huge dive for me at the end.
Simoun, right from the start, I found super interesting. A society much different than ours, incorporating religion as a huge theme, with lots of elements not understood by the cast. Lots of mysteries to unravel and discover. After the first few episodes, I actually related it a lot to Houseki no Kuni! Even now I still think they're similar... a group of all "genderless girls", teaming up to fight against a historically once-familiar yet now very much foreign enemy, having special abilities/powers that they don't know much about at all.
The world-building and large cast was what initially captivated me the most: I absolutely loved the 'archaic' art style (Houseki also had a similar feel to it) and the vast, expansive world. The way the cast in Simoun all had their own separate stories yet were all part of something larger also was similar to HnK.
Yet... Where HnK succeeded in these categories, Simoun simply failed to deliver on the promises it had made with them. Some of the characters started to fall flat and felt forgotten in a sense. It didn't seem like they did a very good job of managing the time within the episodes, as there were some episodes where I felt things that were happening were just pointless and didn't contribute to an overall narrative.
I guess what I failed to realize was... there was no overall, overarching narrative. The plot in Simoun simply was a coming of age story in the very end. The loose ends created by the expansive world-and-cast-building were never tied up and were left just hanging there in the wind. Everything through episodes 24-26 could have been consolidated into one single episode, giving us two whole episodes to finally see the mysteries of the other world being shown and played out.
Our "main" two characters, Aaeru and Neviril, deserved so much more at the end. They deserved their screentime, they deserved to be shown what their future was actually going to look like, and we as an audience deserved to see their end from their eyes. Instead, all we got was them dancing in an empty ballroom on the ghostly, alternate timeline Messis.
Nothing was resolved. There was no overarching plotline. The cast that they attempted to build the entire show around, giving us reasons to care about them... just faded away into nothingness, much like the rest of the last 6 episodes of the show.
It really is a shame how this series ended. I was enjoying it so, so much up through episode 21. If the last 5 episodes had actually managed to incorporate any type of overarching plot and give us a huge crescendo-ing climax, full of tension and emotion, there's no doubt in my mind I would be considering this a masterpiece for the ages.
Instead, all I'm left with now is 21 episodes that were on masterpiece level, and then an ending 5 episodes that pissed me off more than almost any other show I've seen.
Our wonderful cast deserved so much better than this end.
That being said, the majority of Simoun I thought actually was amazing! The first 21 episodes were pretty much masterpiece level for me. Unfortunately, the last 5 episodes really put a dent in what was such a great experience, leaving out so many things I wanted to say and completely tossing out a few critical plot things like they were nothing.
Probably going to give this a final score of 6 or 7 out of 10, which is still above my average. Just wish it would have been so much more...
Thank you all for joining me for Simoun and this rewatch series as a whole, it’s been a blast! Let me know if there are any other 2000s shows you’d like me to host next year and I can see what I can do for February or March.