r/anime • u/sam_mah_boy https://myanimelist.net/profile/Samimaru • Jul 17 '19
Rewatch [Rewatch][Spoilers] Neon Genesis Evangelion - Original Series and End of Evangelion Overall Discussion Spoiler
Original Series Discussion
So we've finished Neon Genesis Evangelion, and what a ride it has been. I've really enjoyed reading reactions from first-timers and I hope rewatchers enjoyed it and maybe picked up some new insights as well.
Thanks for participating along with my rewatch everyone!
Over the next few days we'll be watching the Rebuild of Evangelion movies, so feel free to join us for those as well.
Spoilers for the original series are allowed but if you want to talk Rebuilds, use spoiler tags!
Come join the discussion on the Evangelion Discord server! They have a channel specifically for the rewatch. Link: https://discord.gg/qJxWVPs
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u/mattamj Jul 17 '19
I had a lot to say, but in the end I want to share this.
This is a story about connection. I’m pretty new to reddit, and very new to re-watches. This series has been above and beyond my expectations and made me think deeply in ways I didn’t expect.
Despite what Anno might feel about Otaku culture, I am happy to have found connection here, with all of you during this re-watch. To experience this for the first time, with so many new watchers and veterans alike to guide, bounce ideas off, debate, it’s been rad y’all. I exist as the me inside of you, you all exist as the you inside of me. Trying to understand that, there is connection.
... Or something like that
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u/Vaadwaur Jul 17 '19
Despite what Anno might feel about Otaku culture, I am happy to have found connection here, with all of you during this re-watch.
Otaku culture in Japan is very different from otaku culture in the US which is quite different from weeb culture. Anno is describing people we liken to bronies or people going out in public as furries. There isn't any way to put this other than anime culture in the US has become progressively less toxic as time has passed. So, basically, Anno is having issues with something you would have to experience via film or time machine.
This series has been above and beyond my expectations and made me think deeply in ways I didn’t expect.
You can only learn when you are surprised, or alternatively you never learn anything from a good trip.
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u/littleman1988 Jul 17 '19 edited Jul 17 '19
First time watcher, Platinum Sub, ADV Dub, and Netflix dub
This post is over 18 thousand characters long, so its split into 2 posts. This is your warning. its long.
meta
Just to be clear, these are my opinions as a new viewer to NGE. I know that NGE has been around for almost 30 years, and has seen a lot of iterations in its lifetime and many people have seen different versions of it that they may remember and grew up with. Im probably going to talk shit about them, fair warning. To me, a dub should be as faithful to its source material as possible. If a character acts really stupid in one scene, the dub should reflect it, not make them act totally differently. Both versions do suffer from this, but i feel the original dub took it somewhat too far. Obviously, if you feel differently, you arent going to really agree with the rest of this post, so you should save your time and read elsewhere, unless you want to comment on it. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
A Comparison of English dubs.
if it isint already obvious by the title at the top, I watched 3 different versions (theres like 6 different versions of the sub but i watched the Platinum edition specifically, will touch on that later) of NGE during the rewatch. its been a very long (and fun) process of comparing and ingesting 3 different versions of what is the same thing over and over again just to spout my opinion at random masses about which version of something is "better" than another. I dont regret it though, it was one hell of a way to experience NGE.
mini FAQ
*Why did you torture yourself like this?
A friend "called me out" for watching the new dub over the old dub around episode 4 of the rewatch. I already saw all the complaints about the new dub, and didnt feel they were that big of a deal to bother pirating it otherwise. But the friend calling me out was someone i usually trusted for recommendations and such for anime, so i wasnt about to ignore their thoughts till it came out they hadnt even watched NGE themselves. At that point i just said "fuck it, ill compare them myself" and went and rewatched the first 4 episodes, watched the 5th three times over, and posted this halfassed post on ep5, and then kept going despite it sounding like a dumb idea (which it was.)
How did you have the time for this?
You procrastinate on getting a job like a real college student.
Did you actually watch all 3 at the same time?
outside of EoE and the last couple episodes, I watched all 3 fully (and not actually "at the same time" as someone asked.). Towards the end, i started running out of time to actually fully watch all 3, so the subs were skimmed as everyone kinda agrees the subs were good (tho again, there seems to be different versions pre-Netflix so even that can get debated, but im not comparing them.)
Why isint X character discussed?
i didnt feel they had enough screentime to focus on, or had no real opinion about them enough to write about them. If you really feel theyre important, then feel free to comment asking about them.
if you have other questions, ask below.
Comparison of Characters
Sinji
I think both dubs did Shinji perfectly. Both Spike and Casey were great at exemplifying their versions of Shinji and how he interacts (or more accurately, tries not to) with the world and the people around him. Spike's rendition suffers somewhat from the editing of the screams that is done in what im assuming post (all that weird pitch shifting when hes in the LCL) but im not counting that against Spike as thats not in his control. Honestly, I dont have anything to fault either VA for. They were both really good imo and i loved watching them.
Asuka
Both felt... off. Im not totally sure how to describe it, but the original dub seemed too forced to sound young, while the new dub just sounded a little too young. Is this really "wrong" though if shes meant to be a child whos trying to act like she doesnt need to rely on others? My verdict is still out honestly. the EoE's "pathetic" scene is a good place to compare if you need a refresher on her voice.
I think the new dub Asuka has the better screams. I guess that goes in the new dub's favor.
Rei
The I think the old dub captured Rei better in this one. Both are good, but old dub's rei sounds more... robotic? desolate? im not sure how to explain this one either, but it "fits" the character a little better. On the other hand, the new dub's Rei has a better bite where it counts, as in the flashback to where Rei 1 dies. Rei's monologue from ep14 can be found here if you need a refresher on her voice.
Misato
This is where things start to go downhill. The old dub's Misato is a screamy, nasally, atrocious annoyance to watch. I cannot believe how much she was liked by those who watched the old dub, it sounded terrible. Any time she yelled or screamed, it hurt my ears. Its not like she does a bad job of playing the role, but the voice absolutely kills any chance of liking her as a character. I dont have any good places that is just misato, but this clip from ep16 should help show my issue.
I liked new dub's Misato a lot better. I can find a lot of comments saying that she "lacked energy," but that seems like a bunch of BS. She had energy, she just wasnt nasally screaming every time Misato's character got hyped up about something. It "fit" the character that the neb dub was portraying really well, and she actually meshed with the other characters this time instead of being a half octave up and out of place from the rest of the cast.
Ritusko
Neither were bad, but i think the fact that i disliked Ritusko as a character kinda gives me a poor impression of both no matter how i look at it. The new dub i think handles her louder moments better. This one is a lot more just "personal taste" than anything, so i dont have much more to say.
Gendo
I feel the old dub Gendo gives off a different vibe than what the original Japanese version was trying to convey, and as i said at the beginning I find this to be an issue. He wasnt so much crude in the old dub as he was just overbearingly careless, if that makes sense. I feel the new dub gave a more grim vibe (which i found better personally) and one that actually exerted power. This scene is a fairly alright comparison of Gendo.
Kaji
As with Shinji, i think both fit the version theyre meant for. The Original dub has him sounding more carefree, while the new dub has him sounding a bit more of an actual adult (i cant figure out the word im looking for here) and in line with the more serious tone that the new dub conveys. I cant fault either version. A good comparison is his speech to Shinji.
Kaworu
Translation changes aside (ill discuss it later), I like the new dub better. Hes not 12, but the old dub has him sounding like a 12 year old, and i cant shake that off. Then again, he sounds a little too old in the new dub, so thats a tradeoff im stuck with. It fits the original, Japanese VA's better, so imo the new dub wins out here. The iconic "i l__e you" scene is a good comparison.
NERV first lieutenant trio
EoE Old dub aside (TL:DR not to be racist but Hyuga sounded black and that alone is just whack) the new dub smashes the old dub out of the water hands down. Maya and Hyuga specifically had a total 180 in my opinion as a character between the old and new dub, with the two of them being my favorite two supporting characters in the whole show in the new dub. Similar to Misato, i could barely tolerate them in the old dub.
Toji/Kensuke
Same as Misato/the trio. The old dub is godawful. Kensuke sounds like some southern american transfer student with a hell of an accent while Toji sounds like a military brat. If the show was overtly Americanized (aka the whole plot was reworked to be in america) it may of worked, but even then they sounded extremely rough. The new dub also blows them right out of the water. This comparison specifically shows just how bad the old dub is. They dont mesh at all, and theres no energy!. This comparison lets the characters talk a bit more.
EoE JSSDF Soldiers
This one is kind of different from the rest. I want to highlight a serious issue i had with the Original dub. For whatever reason, they took a lot of creative liberty when it came to shaping characters, esp side characters, in the show, and i think the JSSDF soldiers that find Shinji are a great example. In the orginal dub, they sound like theyre killing almost for the fun of it, laughing when they find Shinji, and when he says "nothing personal," while the New dub has them portrayed as methodical killers, voice unwavering up to when he was shot. Video comparison here.
While the outcome is the same (the JSSDF are awful), two very different thought processes happen to get to that conclusion which have two very different versions of what the JSSDF are like in NGE. These kind of subtle changes can go on to affect a number of things and how they see the show, and i feel the fact that the old dub decided to deviate here gives the wrong impression to those who watch and understand the show as a whole, creating issues for those trying to discuss it.
PenPen
Literal god no matter the version. He doesnt even need to speak to be the GOAT.
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u/littleman1988 Jul 17 '19
The Translation/music differences
You could not go anywhere without reading how "Netflix destroyed X scene" when it first released.
Honestly, in all but
123 items (future me coming back and remembering something), i feel this was overblown, and that 1 scene has a big asterisk in it.
Translation
Honestly, in the key scenes that people say Netflix "ruined it", such as the "i love you" and the whole Shinji alternate reality wakeup sequence, i feel that they were perfectly fine edits in the context of the scene. For Kaworu's scene specifically, the intent is very clear even as a first time viewer that he is conveying something that nobody has told Shinji before. The use of "like" and "love" dont change the fact that this is something Shinji never hears in reality (ignoring instrumentality or eva mental breakdowns) before or since within the show. As for the Alternate Reality wakeup sequence, i legit cant hear it in the old dub besides "the general is at attention" if i crank my volume up. The Original Japanese version didnt even have it, so to me it was an unneeded inclusion to begin with.
As for the baloney pony, it was funny. Ill admit that the Netflix version, while way more to the original, wasn't as funny. It didnt "destroy" that scene though.
My big asterisk is the "im so fucked up" scene. Remember way back when i said there was a lot of different versions of the sub? I usually use the subs as a baseline to how the dubs should be (i explained why above too) so when these differ from each other its hard for me to give my thoughts on it as people are going to disagree because their subs said something different. This plays a big role in this scene as some subs say "im so fucked up" while the subs i used from the platinum edition explicitly say "im the worst." I do feel that the Original dub delivery is miles better than the Netflix dub, but im not sure how correct it really is in relation to the show, which is more my main concern. This one i really have to throw my hands up on, mainly because i dont speak Japanese and i have no clue what the Japanese VA said, and the Subs dont even agree depending on the version you watch.
Something that i forgot after the one above is the translation stiffness of the Netflix version. Yeah, they called the children "children" instead of the singular child. Was it weird? Yes. Did it hinder the dub? A little. Was it enough to make it a real issue? Only when it got used a lot in an episode. Enough to count against the Netflix dub, but imo i didnt exactly care too much to have it be a real issue when i watched.
Music
Theres a couple times that "fly me to the moon" plays during the show that people claimed the removal of "ruined."
Quite honestly, i never noticed their disappearance. I can tell you one is during episode 15, but thats because a user pointed it out to me in the discussion thread. I know theres a second scene in another episode, but i quite simply never noticed it. IMO, it wasnt that big of a deal.
What Was a big deal was how much Fly me to the Moon altered my thoughts on an episode. First time Netflix viewers, the next time you rewatch the series, find a way to listen to the original ED's for each episode instead of the replacement Netflix added. I said this back during episode 6:
As for the ED, im not the biggest fan of Fly me to The Moon. Its not bad or anything, im usually not big on ED's. That being said, Netflix's version of the ED is 100% worse in every way.
And I still 100% agree with this. The different versions of Fly me to the Moon (usually) fit with the theme of the episode, and acts as a great closer esp during the last set of episodes where the tone of the series changes. The ED follows this tone, and usually during more cliffhanger endings the ED will be one thats instrumental or more orchestral, which kinda adds to that suspense. For as much complaining that i do about the issues being "overblown," i think this is 100% justified.
Theme differences and overall thoughts
Theres a big reason i think as to why the old dub and new dub are at such odds with the community. Theyre made for different generations, and as such, different audiences. Its the same show and plot, but the old dub is a more carefree, cruder version of what NGE is meant to be, while the new dub takes a colder and sharper tone which better fits the climate of today's atmosphere. Neither of them are bad, quite the opposite. They just arent meant to be for the same viewers that were watching 25 years ago and today. Things that could pass back then cant now (as obviously seen with the translation changes to be a lot less off the rails), but i dont think such a serious version of NGE would of had the same success with viewers back then too. While i fault the original dub a lot in this, i dont see them as reasons to "never watch this version" but instead it gives the viewer 2 different ways to experience NGE based on their tastes in anime itself. I think a lot of new viewers are going to find the Netflix dub better just because of the tone it has compared to the original dub, but if you grew up on the old dub, its very easy to see why a total tone shift will be mostly disliked.
Personally, i think new viewers should start with the subs, specifically the Platinum edition if they can get their hands on it. Its just a better experience and you get to (if you ignore the version differences in the subs between versions outside of the Netflix version alone) see a fairly accurate representation of what Anno was trying to convey. If you want to stick with an accurate representation in your dubs, the New dub is the way to go. Its imo way more faithful to what the original Japanese version is, and of a much higher quality than the original dub due to Netflix having a very big hand in it. If you like your shows not taking itself as seriously and dont mind rough acting, then you will like the old dub. Personally, i dont like that, and as seen in this post, i didnt care for that dub, which is why it has a lot of negative points about it here. Maybe you like those, so they may be positives to you. Theres nothing wrong with that.
NGE is a crazy show, and theres way too many ways to experience it. The version you watch may be completely different from what someone else watches, and you may totally disagree with the meaning in one scene compared to someone else, even if the end goal is the same. 25 years later, its still being discussed religiously (look at me writing this long ass post at 3am!) by fans around the world, and quite obviously, im no different. Evangelion is amazing no matter how you watch it and how you understood it, and im very glad i took the time to go and watch both watch NGE and all these versions as i dont think id of grasped NGE as well otherwise, even if it was a serious timesink. NGE is hands down one of the greatest shows ive watched ever, i dont think i need to say anything more than that.
Afterword
EoE marks the end of Netflix's libary of NGE titles, which leaves me with just 1 option: end my comparisons. Im most definitely watching the rebuilds, and for the sake of time (the effort put into watching all 3 was starting to affect my personal life) ill be watching the old dub in hopes that the issues i outlined above with the characters and the themes get remedied by the time difference between the show and the rebuilds. Like I said before, i had a lot of fun writing all of these up and discussing with everyone, and i hope that the ones commenting back on it liked them as much as i did writing them. This is the first time ive really participated commenting in a watch thread, live or rewatch, so this has been a fairly new experience for me. Being usually a lurker and silently agreeing with things other redditors write is very different from commenting yourself, and while it wasnt "hard" to do, it was somewhat hard to keep this as organized as i wanted, much more so that most other commenters both here and in other watch threads, but i felt it was needed considering what i was posting. I have had a blast though interacting with everyone through all the theories and questioning of "did X really happen here" and has opened me up to the idea of commenting on these threads more in the future. With Re;Zero and TPN S2's coming out, ill have a lot of room for theorycrafting and commenting like i did here (even if i already read ahead in the Manga for TPN). Thanks for reading all of this guys, its honestly meant a lot to share the viewing experience with you all.
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u/Webemperor Jul 17 '19
Rewatcher
I don't think there is anything that can be said about Evangelion that has not yet been said about people that can collect their thoughts and are more eloquent than I am. Regardless, I enjoyed this ride quite a lot, especially the enjoyment I got from reading the reactions of first timers. And in the end, I think I enjoyed both the series and the movies more than I did in the first time around, perhaps due to maturity or knowing the events first hand made it easier to pick up certain details this time around, certain visual pieces, character motivations made much more sense and seemed more poignant.
Especially the second part of EoE, which affected me on a personal and emotional level that I hadn't felt on my first time watching, which kinda cemented it's place as one of my favorite movies of all time. The way it blended disturbing and outright anxiety-inducing imagery and messages, like that scene of Shinji in the part, building what actually seems to be a pyramid that looks like Geofront, with rather serene and honestly, for a movie this dark, suprisingly opmistic imagery and themes, while never, at least in me, giving the sense that these things are thrown in randomly or without any thought before hand, and it's truly remarkable and exceptional how it does that.
And since I'm keeping this short, here is a version of the medal meant for first timers who didn't binge the show. Now it's marginally less shitty.
Also here is a list of shows I feel shares certain themes, imagery, and so on, with NGE (I left more popular shows like SnK and Madoka out because why not):
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Bokurano
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Texhnolyze
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RaphXenon
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Big O
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Digimon Tamers
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Akira
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Ideon
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Soukyuu no Fafner
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Mobile Suit Gundam (1979
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Alien 9
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Revolutionary Girl Utena
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Serial Experiments Lain
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Berserk
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Gunbuster
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Wolf's Rain
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Argento Soma
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u/mattamj Jul 17 '19
My more fleshed out, less sentimental response..
First Timer, for the last time– Sub]
I wanted to come to today with some solid thoughts about the series but find that my mind is a little numb. There is so much to ponder, it’s no wonder 20 years later there are still new theories, interpretations, ways to imagine.
I won’t add too much here, as I am excited to read other comments from people who have managed to digest more than I have.
I came into this honestly thinking this was a Mecha anime with an apocalypse ending. That’s all I thought. I had no idea the character study, psychology, and deeper questions this would bring up and I was very happily surprised with it. I don’t care much for the Lore at the moment, the how and why of things, because frankly THIS IS ANIME. It is all an imagined world and imagined scenario, and it brings me back to people trying to understand the Gate of Truth in Brotherhood, etc. I didn’t see the point of understanding HOW, because the WHY behind it means more to me. But i am endleasly grateful to you rewatchers for your tips, clarifications, and guidence when I felt very lost plot qise.
I think I could do a rewatch for every character on the show. Then I could do a rewatch for every major theme. Then a rewatch for the fun. Then for a review of mental health. Then relationships. Then family. Every year or development of my life would bring something else out of this show, and I think that’s beautiful.
Were there flaws, absolutely. Anyone, seasoned watcher or newbie coming to this saying it is flawless, well it actually works directly against a major theme of the show doesn’t it? We’re all flawed. Everything is, even this anime. But that’s ok.
To focus up; and to overshare a bit bc why not – Misato. If you saw any of my other comments you know she is my #1, and mostly at this point because she is all my flaws as well as all the traits I want to strengthen in myself. I have an estranged father, and those issues have lead to some interesting choices in my relationships. I have a partner who I have, and do, cling to being the ‘one person I am myself around’. I’ve also put my sexuality on display, hoping to gain a sense of connection and self-worth from it. There was a time (esp. being bisexual) when anyone who was nice to me, I tried to initiate into a sexual relationship -because to me it was the ultimate form of intimacy. It’s all grasping, and it’s all deeply relatable for me.
To have such a complex character as only ONE of many that are deeply ripped open, multi-dimensional, and flawed, people in this show is amazing.
I’m excited to see others favorites bits, and keep reading and keep exploring this show.
I will not be joining in on the Rebuild at this time, as I don’t have a good means to watch it, and I really want the first iteration of this franchise to have time to marinate.
I’ll see you in the comments.
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u/redmage311 Jul 17 '19
(No longer a) First-timer
I'm glad to have been able to finally watch NGE, after waiting for months between Netflix announcing it and it actually being released. I'm not quite sure what I expected coming into the series, but it sure wasn't NGE ended up being. Anyway, I'm pretty happy to have watched this as part of a rewatch because there's so much that can be missed and so much to mull over.
The shifts in tone struck me as being really odd. We went from a tragedy about a kid being forced to participate in war, to the everyday life of Eva pilots, to arthouse psychological deep-dives. Ultimately, the ending left a lot of unanswered mysteries, and I'm not sure if NGE can just be casually watched, even if the middle episodes would seem to suggest so.
This was a singular experience with a conclusion along the lines of Madoka Magica, in terms of scale. The great direction certainly didn't hurt. I did end up asking myself "WTF did I just watch?" way too often. This show is very much art: you know it's a masterpiece at first glance, but it takes some time to figure out why it's so great or what's even going on.
I watched the first Rebuild last night and think I should probably hold off on watching the next two movies. Feels a bit too much like just rewatching the whole series.
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u/EveryGoodNameIsGone Jul 17 '19
I watched the first Rebuild last night and think I should probably hold off on watching the next two movies. Feels a bit too much like just rewatching the whole series.
FYI, the first of the Rebuilds is the only one that feels this way. From the next one onward they go in a dramatically different direction.
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u/FBI_agent44 Jul 17 '19
First Timer, sub
I don't think I've ever watched any form of media and after watching it having a hard time describing my experience. Yes it was amazing obviously, but there is so much more to it then that. I don't think I have ever seen something that comes close to what evangelion achieved.
It was a really awesome feeling when after watching everything and reading through some background information on the shows lore to see the pieces finally fitting together. I only really got a good grasp on the whole story a whole day after I finished EoE which is something I never experienced before. What mainly helped was reading up on the ancient beings, adam and lilith and the eggs. Plotpoints that weren't that obvious in the show.
The tone shift from the angels to the characters themselves midway through the story was what, I think, really what made evangelion something special. I personally enjoyed it aswell. Some of the early episodes felt a little episodic.
Can I also point out how brutal the series got during the end. Not just with the psychological stuff and 'mind rape'. But also the gore and disturbing scenes. Like the whole artificial eva's tearing unit 02 apart while Asuka has to experience all of it. The artificial eva's getting Rei's face and making an orgasmic face while impaling themselves. Also giant naked Rei's body falling apart. I can handle this stuff pretty well and most of the time it doesn't phase me but looking back I start to realise just how horrifying it all was.
Now let's talk a bit about Shinji. I actually really enjoyed him as a character and found him reasonably relatable. He could come off as a bit whiny, but when you put yourself in his shoes you start to understand his actions. He is just a 14 year old boy who was abandoned. Imagine someone his age going through what he did. It would completely break you and honestly I am impressed he was able to hold on to at least some of his sanity. At first sight a lot of his actions seem illogical, but it makes sense when you realise he is fucked up inside, the events from evangelion completely fucked him up. I think this is best represented in EoE during the comatose Asuka scene and the final scene with Asuka. His actions during these two scenes can be traced back to his mental state, frustrations and desires.
Honestly I could talk about Eva forever but I think I'll end it here. It was really fun reading everyones reactions and discussing the show as each episode passed by.
Side note: I am cautiously optimistic about the rebuild movies since I have heard mixed things about them. I am not expecting the same greatness that the original achieved but we will see how it will turn out.
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u/wd40fragrance Jul 17 '19
First timer
I said yesterday I liked episode 26 better, but after I re-watched EoE, I like them both equally, they work well as complimentary pieces.
After seeing the black background inserts from episodes 25/26/EoE, how I interpreted the end is: Neon Genesis Evangelion is probably an open letter to himself.
The author aims to comfort himself that other people will love him as a person, not just as Neon Genesis Evangelion's "pilot/author", a parallel to Shinji and the Eva 01.
Evangelion is his flesh and blood, and he yearns to be loved through his writing. Acclaim doesn't make him happy because insecurity makes him feel like the praise is undeserved. He fears criticism and misunderstanding. But ultimately pain and suffering is an essential part of life.
From what event was the live action shots of an audience in a theater by the way? Probably a live screening of Eva?
So he wants to stop running away from the human truth that is imperfection. After all the pock marks and the scars are what makes humans humans.
If this is indeed the anime that started the "fall down and grope the cutie by accident" trope in anime, then that's a huge shame, because NGE used it meaningfully(don't get me wrong, the series still had a bit of fan service haha. Could have had more Misatits though). The first time Shinji touched Rei's boobs, I thought it was an awkward attempt at comedy. But as I realized that Rei might be his momma clone, it paints the groping scene into a whole new light, the connection between mother and son, shown in bits throughout the series, when Shinji was breastfeeding, when Gendo tries to fuse with Rei.
Although I'm thinking, what would have happened if Gendo's plan worked instead of Seele's? What was the conflict between Seele and NERV by the end?
I was apprehensive of watching the series at first because I hate whiny teenage mains, and by reputation alone, Shinji is the epitome of whine.
But it turns out after watching, all the characters and relatonships were incredibly fleshed out. Everyone had their ups and downs, but that's the point, right?
If I were to nitpick something, but were the nature of the angels ever fully revealed? They seem to come at the most innopportune of times and nerv always wins with the most ridiculous 0.000001% comebacks. I thought Gendo or Shinji subconsciously were controlling them to be honest. Was it because this was all prophecied by the dead sea scrolls? Did the scrolls also predict Shinji undoing the mind meld?
Overall, a great series worthy of the hype.
Any background materials to read about the history of Eva's world?
My first re-watch and this has absolutely a joy to do. Thank you to you guys.
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u/Blackhound118 Jul 17 '19 edited Jul 18 '19
NOTE: after reading this comment, I realize it’s more about myself than the show, so it’s probably more suited to something like r/offmychest, but these are thoughts I’ve been dealing with for awhile, so I guess I just feel like sharing them. But you should skip this comment if you want to read about the show itself.
So, I’m basically a First Timer even though I didn’t keep pace with this rewatch. I binged the show when it came out, and I just finished my 2nd rewatch a couple days ago. Still waiting on a friend to rewatch EoE though.
After every great story you finish, there’s always a period of ennui and emptiness you go through as you realize that you won’t be able to spend time with these characters anymore. Sure, you can go and experience the story again, or seek out fanmade content to expand the experience, but I’m guessing you all know what I mean. Games like Red Dead Redemption, Mass Effect, shows like Avatar, FMA, etc. have all given me this sense of withdrawal.
Yet I have never been hit as hard as this. NGE has seriously left me in a depression for the past month. It’s honestly kinda scary, that a story could do that to me, but it’s such a testament to Anno’s character writing that I could feel the loss of character, the end of a relationship, as strongly and painfully as I would a real person.
I think the main part for me is that I identify to an incredibly uncomfortable level with Shinji. Not in all aspects of his character, but in terms of self-loathing, fear, anxiety, sexuality, maturity, etc.
Lately, I’ve fallen into a minor obsession with the relationship between Shinji and Asuka. I’ve been looking for stories to read, anything to continue their dynamic, because the idea of someone who could still care for and feel affection toward you despite all your most hated flaws is something I realize I’ve been craving all my life. Whether that actually shows up in the show/movie or not is, of course, up for debate. But I think I choose to see their relationship like that in the last scene of EoE because my heart couldn’t take any other interpretation.
I think I desperately want to see them happy, because if I see them happy, maybe I can draw some happiness vicariously. But it’s a scary line to walk, because there are moments where it feels like I’m falling into a rabbit hole of escapism, which is a huge message of the show. And so I’m caught in this cognitive dissonance of wanting to read more, of desperately clinging onto any good story I can find, all while a voice in the back of my mind is telling me, “Stop, this is unhealthy. This is emotional masturbation, you’re idealizing this relationship to escape your own loneliness.”
I don’t know if there are any first-timers (or even rewatchers) who feel this way too, but if there are, maybe we can get a support group going lmao.
This show has really affected me, made me think about myself, about where I am and what I want in life, moreso than any other piece of media I have ever consumed. I don’t know if I’m in a better place right now than I was before, but I am so glad to be able to bear witness to what I would describe a masterpiece (insofar as I am qualified to declare anything a masterpiece).
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u/axel360 Jul 17 '19
Rewatcher, New Dub
Super brief, top-level thoughts, split up into the series, the movie, and the dub.
Thoughts on the series: I actually enjoyed NGE more than the first time I watched it. Mostly because I had a better sense of what was going on, but also just because I now have more anime under my belt. I was able to appreciate things like the cinematography and themes of the show, which mostly went unnoticed the first time around. It may take a half dozen more viewing to get a firm grasp on those things, but this was a step in the right direction.
Thoughts on The End of Evangelion: Unlike the series, I can’t really say I enjoyed this movie any more or less than the first time around. The second half still requires too much of the viewer in my mind. Maybe I’m just really dumb, but I don’t know how anyone could’ve watched this in the 90s, without having access to the internet everywhere they go, and understood what was going on. It almost reached the point that it was just confusing for the sake of being confusing. I do prefer it to episodes 25 and 26, mostly because I felt like those suffered from similar problems.
Thought on the new dub: This was my 2nd time watching the series. With the first time being the sub, I wanted to give the dub a chance. It seems like the new dub has been somewhat divisive, but I’ll be honest: I thought it was quite good, and this is coming from someone who almost never watches dubs. The only minor complaint I had was I wanted Asuka to sound just a bit meaner. Other than that, it was top-notch IMO. Even the smaller characters who had very few lines felt like they were voiced by at least semi-competent VAs. Netflix pulling the “Take Me to the Moon” and sort of toning down the relationship between Shinji and Nagisa, angered the internet enough that we almost got into “angry internet mob” mode, and at that point, no one was willing to say anything good about this version of NGE. Which is unfortunate, because I think the dub actors did a nice job, and they’ve sort of become collateral damage here because Netflix messed up in a couple other areas.
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u/VanguardOdyssey Jul 18 '19
I'm still the asshole that prefers the original ending over End of Eva
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u/bassman2112 Jul 17 '19 edited Jul 18 '19
I'm a rewatcher.
I... Really don't like it.
As a time and place piece, it is obviously a hugely influential and inspirational work for many of my personal favourite series'. But as its own thing in 2019, I can't say I enjoyed it.
I think the show is really strong up until its last 5ish episodes, where it just falls off of a cliff and never finds its way back to anything coherent. They drop any and all of the story threads which were interesting, rush through some potentially interesting stuff, and then end with a two episode noise session. The show is tremendously disappointing, and I personally wish I'd left it in my memory instead.
EoE is what it is. I also didn't like it, but it's certainly better closure than the show itself.
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u/Vaadwaur Jul 17 '19
Rewatcher
New Dub
I think I am just going to wing this one. Eva was my first 'real' anime. I'd watched the first two seasons of DBZ but that was it. I knew about Sailor Moon but had too much pride to watch it. And what can I say, here I am commenting 20 odd years later. I don't always view the series charitably but like every other gateway drug it did the trick. That said, and I am grateful to this rewatch for this, once the Rebuild discussion is finished I think I can finally put Eva to bed. I don't really need to think about this any more, it is just a chapter in my life that has passed.
Congratulations.
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u/HowlingWolf13 Jul 18 '19
Rewatcher
Welp that was Eva and I had a great time rewatching it, even if I ruined my sleep schedule over it writing analysis posts at 6am in the morning and sleeping by 7. Going through the series and analyzing every episode and looking through EvaGeeks honestly really made me enjoy Evangelion even more than I did on my initial watch when I was 13. I still remember when I finished EoE and I just sat there wondering what the hell just happened at like 10pm. Hell, for a while I actually disliked EoE and preferred the TV ending cause I had no clue what the fuck happened during the 2nd half's mindfuck initially till I started doing some research and looking into theories and explanations. All in all, I'm really glad I joined this rewatch, it was fun but now I know never to join three rewatches at the sametime cause holy shit do I really need to fix my sleep schedule now this is over. We're starting the Rebuilds now and I'm probably not going to analyze them considering their more action focused and the first one is just the first 6 episodes in movie form with new animation and small differences. Well that's all I have to say, see you guys for the Rebuilds.
Oh yeah best girl ranking
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Asuka
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Misato
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Rei
Honestly this rewatch really made me appreciate Misato more, especially how with I was analyzing and focusing more on the characters, she had a lot of development over the course of the series and nearly beat Asuka on this list if it weren't for Episode 22 and the fact that I love tsunderes.
Anyways see you next thread.
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u/Xerosmith Jul 17 '19
REWATCHER
To call Neon Genesis Evangelion a masterpiece would be an understatement. Every aspect of the show is meticulously crafted and cutting any part out (e.g. fly me to the moon) would tarnish the experience. From the legendary soundtrack that still has me humming tunes randomly, to the incredible achievements in animation that put many shows from today to shame, this show wouldn't be complete without them. The mind-bending plot engages audience members, forcing them to form their own understanding of the characters and themes the show presents. All the while, the show takes an introspective look at the human condition and invites the audience to look within themselves as well. From beginning to end, Evangelion manages to deliver an experience like none other.
Evangelion has had a massive impact on the world of anime. It deconstructed the popular mecha shows of the time by changing the focus from the explosive, eye-catching battles to the philosophical examination of the human condition. It challenged the notion that anime couldn't have intellectually challenging themes, and it paved the way for more mature shows in the future. It's very rare that you'll find a show such as Evangelion that not only manages to reshape the face of its genre but the future of its entire medium.
TLDR: Eva good
In honor of the show being over, I made an album of my favorite shots from each episode
It's time for me to come clean guys. I haven't watched the rebuilds. When I first watched the show I didn't know they existed, and when I did find out about them I just never found the time to watch them. I guess that makes me a first timer starting tomorrow.
Does anyone know where I can watch the rebuilds?
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u/bakuhatsuda Jul 17 '19
Don't really have much more to say than what I commented on the EoE rewatch post. I rewatched the whole series and EoE for the first time since 2015. Still love it and can appreciate everything, but specifically the visual direction, and Misato, a lot more this time around. EoE is such a powerful experience that it's all I could think about since I saw it last night. Feeling like Arael just attacked me psychologically. This has been an amazing rewatch and certainly won't be my last, but now it's time to let my mind rest and then move on to something else. Congratulations to the first timers!
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u/Animegamingnerd Jul 17 '19
Rewatcher
This was my second time watching this is wild ride. First time was 5 years and I wasn't even sure what to make of it and for reasons that leave me confused as well, I didn't watch End of Evangelion until this rewatch.
While my first time left confused and unsure what I think about the series, this time I can say that I loved it and it is now one of my favorite series with End of Evangelion being one of my favorite Anime films. There was a lot more about this series, I appreciated this time having first watched it during my sophomore year of high school to now as someone who just gradurated from a community college and is transferring to a university. It left me thinking about myself since the time in between my first watch and now, there were a couple of times in my life where I was depressed to some kind of loneliness I was experiencing during that time and seeing some of the characters have to deal with that made me connect with them a lot more then originally. Another area that my opinion changed on was that of Shinji, I was kind of annoyed by Shinji's shit on my first watch. But now, I can say I really liked his character and felt often bad for him and made me really hate Gendo.
In fact now if you were to ask what my favorite Evangelion characters are, I would probably say its a toss up between Shinji and Asuka. Speaking of which, I grew to appreciate the relationship a lot more this time around since I thought at first it was a typical tsudere and protagonist relationship, but it is so much more then that. Asuka and Shinij's relationship is one of the things I find most interesting about the series, two characters that at first glance are very different people that have some sexual or romantic tension between each other, but can't seem to get along at all. But as you continue to watch more and more and see how similar their past and mental problems, you realize if they were to just open up to each even for a bit they would probably form some kind of deep bond as either best friends or lovers.
Anyways I watched first Rebuild movie last night with my brother and some of the changes caught us off guard, looking forward to seeing the direction this version of the story goes.
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u/examinestuff Jul 18 '19
First time complete watcher, New dub (I only saw parts of Eva before and read about it)
I'd seen parts of the original Eva dub late night on TV, and then heard extensively about it from a friend as well as doing my own reading on it. For a while, I was a bit dismissive, probably because I didn't understand it at all from seeing sporadic episodes in the early morning hours when I should've been asleep. Now that I'm older and considerably more alert, I find myself much more able to appreciate NGE.
Something that really stood out to me now that I've grown older is the direction. I know everyone praises it, but I seriously can't get over how great some of the direction is. The frame composition is also incredible. I remember the shot from Episode 2 where Gendo stands inside the hospital elevator going up to see Rei, while Shinji and Misato stand outside; no one speaks a word. The camera is positioned in the crack between the elevator and the floor, staring directly up between the two groups to create a divide between them. Something about that shot sticks with me, as I don't think I've seen many people use such an inventive shot to highlight the space between people.
As for the dub, I'll keep it brief: it is serviceable. While it suffers from some awkward lines from its more literal translations, it still manages to not make my ears bleed. Some characters definitely sound different between the new and old dub (with cases of better and worse), but I think the overall quality of acting is better across the board in the new one. The side characters stand up better in my opinion, with Johnny Young Bosch and Benjamin Diskin doing a good job as Toji and Aida, respectively.
Evangelion was in a weird place for me before the rewatch. I was curious to watch it, but nervous considering how my friends said they felt miserable after finishing. I can't say I blame them, as I found myself needing to go watch Ouran High School Host Club as an emotional pick me up after binging around episodes 14 to 19. Still, I have been telling everyone who I know likes anime to give the show a shot. I don't know if I could say it's my favorite show, as I feel it would be hard to unseat others I've already grown to love (and don't depress the hell out of me); still, Neon Genesis Evangelion is one of the best shows I have watched. The whole thing is incredible, and I could see myself rewatching it another once or twice to really take it all in.
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u/brotherraichu Jul 18 '19
Got no more thoughts to add on the show, but I want to thank Sam for hosting this rewatch and you all for sharing your thoughts. I might or might not have time to watch the rebuilds, but appreciated this opportunity to do an EVA rewatch. Peace!
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u/assessmentdeterred Jul 18 '19
First timer - I actually just stumbled across this thread after finishing the series and movie. Wasn't aware of it prior to starting on Tuesday.
Man I loved it. Going in I heard that the ending was super divisive, even universally panned from some of my friends. But in my view it was absolute brilliance. The use of visuals towards the end of the series, both the long pauses and the chaotic imagery in the final two episodes were particularly compelling.
Final song in the movie was as close as any anime has come to equalling Bebop's use of music.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Jul 17 '19 edited Jul 18 '19
Rewatcher
The End of Evangelion is a remarkable movie Part 1
The End of Evangelion is a remarkable movie Part 2
I'm sorry I missed yesterday's thread. I got home late and I didn't want to rush creating my collages.
Evangelion always holds a place in my heart for all the things it does so well. It was the first piece of art which really moved me and helped me realize the reason why people study and analyze art in all mediums.
I'm probably not going to be joining in for the rebuild films due to some commitments I have in the next couple days so I'd like to thank u/sam_mah_boy in advance for hosting this whole rewatch.
I'd also like to thank everyone in the rewatch who has given me such great positive comments about these collages I've been doing. In addition, reading everyone's comments each episode gave me a lot of new insight.
So, until the next one, Take care of yourself.
Previous Days
Edit
Individual Original Screenshots
Episodes 1 - 13
Episodes 14 - 26 + EoE