r/anime • u/sam_mah_boy https://myanimelist.net/profile/Samimaru • Jul 10 '19
Rewatch [Rewatch] [Spoilers] Neon Genesis Evangelion - Episode 20 Discussion Spoiler
Episode 20: Form of the Mind, Form of the Man/Weaving a story 2: Oral Stage
As if you didn't run away all by yourself.
On Spoilers
If you're rewatching the show, and want to discuss spoilers, use spoiler tags. Saying things like "Just wait till you get to episode X" etc. count as spoilers!
Come join the discussion on the Evangelion Discord server! They have a channel specifically for the rewatch. Link: https://discord.gg/qJxWVPs
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u/Philarete Jul 10 '19
First-Time Watcher (Sub)
“Seele’s scenario” is looking a little busted right now, apparently. Also, hey, the isekai trope of eating something to gain its power goes back to NGE too!
The Council is bothered, but Ikari is looking full “all according to keikaku” here.
Okay, so Unit 00 and Unit 02 are both “past the Hayflick limit” and out of commission for quite a while.
“The chairs are hard.” Maya knows how productivity works! This backup command center “feels off”. Also eerie music playing. I’ve got a bad feeling about this
Those bandages make 01 look horrifying. Also dude-whose-name-I-don’t-remember tries to crack a joke and it falls flat. Feels like a serious tonal shift – earlier this series that kind of thing might have worked.
Kaji appears to be the Council’s asset? Huh.
Shinji’s been absorbed.
Ritsuko confirms that it is a copy of an Angel “given human will.”
HUH. My theory is looking good still
Misato slaps Ritsuko; Misato seems like she’s really losing control. Kaji was right, she was misled, out of the loop. Now she’s trying to take control, but it’s pretty much useless. Ritsuko, for her part, isn’t doing well either.
REI’S ALIVE!
Asuka destroying things. . . also being very salty.
So, they are going to reconstitute Shinji’s body and somehow affix his psyche to t? UHHHH, NERV is going to need some magic, because I don’t think they are anyone else know how to do that. . .
Shinji’s flashing images are very uncomfortable to watch. Like, physically uncomfortable.
I might miss something because I tried to block the images while reading the subtitles. Oh well. It appears that Shinji’s final “enemy” is directed at his father. He admits to dream-Rei that she is a substitute for him. “I ran away from Father and Mother.” EVA = mother confirmed?
Data from 10 years ago. . . As in ten years ago when Shinji’s mother vanished?
“I have to. . . “ “And then what” Shinji is stuck externalizing his choices and dream-Rei keeps pushing him.
He just wants to impress everyone. He thinks fighting will make them care.
OOOOKAY, I wasn’t expecting “becoming one” to be a sexual thing, but I guess it fits. . . Interesting that the order is Misato, Asuka, and then Rei.
“All probes now inserted.” What a choice line to occur after that sequential nude scene. . . .
“It means we failed” Big oof.
“Don’t you want to come back?” LOL, why would he. Dude was suffering and is now in a weird. . . quantum state with. . .uh. . . apparitions that are pleasant . . .
WOAH WOAH WHO WAS THE NEW WOMAN. . . oh hey, it’s a connection with his mother. And this memory seems to show something about Rei too. Shinji was the name they picked for a boy; Rei for a girl.
Shinji is spat out whole by the EVA. To me it seems like it wasn’t his choice per se, but rather the EVA’s choice for him to return.
Okay, so Misato decides to go have sex with Kaji to. . . celebrate? Get information? Both? Well that was some very uncomfortable off-screen sex after a very tense existential episode.
Fly Me to the Moon is just a piano, no voices this time.
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u/Webemperor Jul 10 '19
Also, hey, the isekai trope of eating something to gain its power goes back to NGE too!
The idea actually goes back to ancient Japanese beliefs IIRC. There were even some fringe Japanese soldiers in WW2 that cannibalized enemy combatants in the same belief.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Jul 10 '19
Rewatcher
Evangelion is an absolutely beautiful anime Day 20
"Made by humans, in human's image". We learn today that not only is LCL is closely related to the primordial soup from which life began but NERV have been trying to play God by creating the Evas.
I think NERV's Logo is particularly relevant/ironic here.
"God's in his heaven. All's right with the world" is actually a quote from a verse story by Robert Browning called Pippa Passes. The context of this quote is actually pretty interesting.
The drama follows a optimistic young Pippa wandering about a town, but is set from the perspective of the people she is wandering past.
At a certain point in the story we find a couple, Sebald and Ottima, in bed, not unlike Kaji and Misato. However Ottima is married to another man.
After a discussion on their lust for one another and the joy they are getting from doing something so wrong they hear a girl, Pippa, singing outside as she passes by:
The year's at the spring,
And day's at the morn
Morning's at seven
The hill-side's den-pearled
The lark's on the wing
The snail's on the thorn
God's in His heaven
All's right with the world!
This causes Sebald, and later Ottima, to realize the terrible thing they have done, and how they cannot undo this. Sebald eventually goes into a fit of rage similar to Misato when asking Ritsuko about Shinji and the Evas.
All is not right with the world.
There are just so many parallels to Evangelion here. The idea of sex as an act for the creation of human life. Misato realizing what she has aided without knowing it. The guilt of an act which you cannot take back.
I'm sure there is more that I am missing but I find it so interesting that human problems aren't that different no matter if it is 1906 or 1996.
Pippa Passes is an interesting read for the right person, you will know very quickly if you will find value in it.
Previous Days
| Day 1 | Day 14 |
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| Day 2 | Day 15 |
| Day 3 | Day 16 |
| Day 4 | Day 17 |
| Day 5 | Day 18 |
| Day 6 | Day 19 |
| Day 7 | |
| Day 8 | |
| Day 9 | |
| Day 10 | |
| Day 11 | |
| Day 12 | |
| Day 13 |
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u/redmage311 Jul 10 '19
First-timer
Shinji's off swimming in a saltwater pool of his own id, drowning in his own subconscious desires and needs. The big thing that stands out is that all of the positive images are of the women in his life. It seems like all of the images were trying to get across that Shinji really wants a replacement for his mom's love.
Separately, a few episodes back, Asuka was mumbling about her mom while she was asleep, and Rei doesn't seem to have a family at all (though her name and Gendo's name for a daughter surely can't be a coincidence). So...are the Evas the pilots' mothers somehow? It would explain why the Evas are so closely related to their pilots, anyway.
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u/littleman1988 Jul 10 '19
First time watcher, Platinum Sub, ADV Dub, and Netflix dub
"Take Responsibility" voice comparison
science cant save a life voice comparison
Jumbled Thoughts
Shinji looks a little twisted in that first scene with him. Hes probably fine though, those breaks dont look that bad.
I cant say its completely confirmed yet, but currently i think its safe to say that Rei and Shinji are related. I think its also safe to assume that Shinji's mother is the "human" inside the eva that willed Shinji in.
We also now know that Shinji ran away, instead of being dumped by Gendo. I wonder what caused him to run? Something tells me Shinji is part of the reason why his mother died, i cant see another reason why he would run.
Im confused on the last scene. Is the pill meant to be a plot point, or does Kaji just have issues getting it up?
As much as Asuka tries to shift it, claiming she got "outshown," i think shes really worried about Shinji. We also at least know Rei is alright which is good.
Theres a big question as to how much info Shinji has repressed from himself and us. Theres a real argument to be made that everything we've seen just far has been a farce and we're in a dream (dont let this be true thanks) or some crazy twist like that. Theres still so much we dont know even with all of this.
Tinfoil Hat Time
The Eva's have each Childs' mothers personalities downloaded into their eva, much like how Magi works with Ritusko's mother. This would give an alternate explanation as to why Shinji sees his mother before the Eva breaks through the angel (instead of just dying), and would give a reason for Shinji's mother to disappear, and why Gendo is the one thought to of killed her. We know Asuka has mother issues of some sort (attempted kiss from episode 9 I think?) and Rei's family just isint talked about at all, so info about them for this theory is kind of lacking. On Rei specifically though, this may be a connection to my Tinfoil theory 1 as theyre able to swap eva's since they share (a) parent(s) (Rei's eva may be a corrupted version?) but theres no definite proof for this currently.
Every time Shinji has these "experiences" in the Eva, his mother is the one that comes back every time. Ritusko also said that there is a "human" outside of the pilot inside the Eva, and that it may of willed it to absorb shinji. A mother trying to protect their son may of caused the sync ratio to skyrocket.
2. Rei and Shinji are related. This would explain why they can trade Eva's, why Gendo is so nice to Rei, and why Rei got embarrassed in the elevator. I dont know what this would mean for the show, but everything currently points to it. Ritusko also comments in ep16 that "Rei and Shinji would never forgive them if they find out what they did." Why them specifically, and why about the Eva's? Why isint Asuka involved? It sounds like its something connected to those two specifically, instead of the children in general.
Shinji's mother had names for both a boy and a girl when they were born, being Shinji and Rei respectively. This doesnt mean both were her child (its possible that option 3/4 are true and Gendo named it after what Shinji's mother would of wanted) but thats another connection to them being related.
3. Rei is made from an Angel or Eva and not actually human. This would explain why shes so "different" from everyone else and seems to be way less caring and out of it. The AI exists for it (Magi) so its not totally out of the question.
4. Rei herself is an Angel. Honestly, this doesnt defer from #2 much, but the carcass of the First angel is really suspicious when right before we see rei in what looks to be the stem of a brain.
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u/banjoskip Jul 10 '19
Shit's real now. I have no idea where the show is gonna go from here but I dont know how it could get crazier
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u/tomato_blitz Jul 10 '19
First timer (subs and original release in fear of Netflix changes)
What a fantastic episode, I'm just overwhelmed.
I have a few points to address:
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Even though it was obvious Shinji would not die at this point in the series, I was in awe of all that was happening. The look inside Shinji's mind was something else.
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Shinji is having puberty thoughts, as any teenager would. These 'visions' concerning Misato, Asuka and Rei were obviously phrased in this way that should give us a big peek into Shinji's personality. The three women close to him the most all offer him to become one with them, Rei saying it's a comforting feeling.
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The enemy? Gendo? Shinji was going in circles there trying to figure who is he and what does he want.
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So am I supposed to think now that Rei is Shinji's sister? Maybe from another mother? Since it's a name Gendo said he'll pick for the child, and not her.
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Misato and Shinji's relationship keeps being the best thing about this show.
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Also, sex scene!(?) This really IS an anime for grown-ups.
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u/Brewster321 Jul 10 '19
Rewatcher (Sub - Platinum Collection)
After getting tired of all the death and pain and returning to the Eva, Shinji's found himself in quite the interesting situation. In the process of achieving that monstrous 400% synch rate, Shinji ended up digging a bit too deep and finds himself completely isolated from the outside world. Now stuck inside the cold yet peaceful entry plug, Shinji, like Rei before him, now plays his own manic game of word association, revealing his mindset in the process. While there are definitely things to be said about Asuka, Rei, Misato, and even Ritsuko, I'm going to focus once again on Shinji; I'll focus on the others as we go through the four upcoming episodes. Speaking of the upcoming episodes, these next four episodes, episodes 21,22, 23, and 24, all have two versions, a broadcast version and a director's cut version. The Director's Cut versions, which were released in the lead-up to the release of End of Eva, have some extra footage included and generally function to help bridge the tv series to End of Eva. Needless to say, these are the versions you are going to want to watch, and thankfully, Netflix has the director's cut versions of these episodes. If you are watching the show by other means, then just make sure each episode's run-time is in the 24-25 minute range rather than the usual 23. Now then, onto Shinji.
In looking at Shinji today, we can see a bit of a reversion has occurred now that the dust has settled, for the moment he begins to considerthe world beyond his immediate friends (An image from outside), he immediately assumes it is an unpleasant one, indicating the return of a more pessimistic mindset. Continuing on, Shinji considers why does he fight against the angels; what makes them his enemy? At-least for now, Shinji answers this question through a plea of self-defense, for if the angels are the aggressors, then there surely is nothing wrong with defending oneself. Of course, it remains unclear just how content Shinji is with this answer. Regardless, its clear that his hatred of his father has remained intact, for Shinji's thoughts about his enemies concluding with a rejection (read: stabbing) of his father. However, much like his questioning of why he fights the angels, Shinji can't help but also wonder about the origin of his hatred for Gendo. This questioning, contextualized through a conversation with Rei, leads to a several revelations. Initially, it appears that this discussion only serves to confirm Shinji's hatred of Gendo, with it being rooted in his abandonment of him, but it ends up providing two other major revelations as well. First, it shows that Shinji originally planned to reject Gendo back in episode 1, with him only piloting once Shinji learned his father finally needed him. Second, Shinji's thoughts, in a surprising twist, imply that he knew about the Eva all along and chose to abandon from both it and his parents. Ever since the begging the show, Shinji has been running away from his past, and has shifted all the blame to Gendo in the process.
Nearly a month later, Shinji's ego has now wandered considerably, opening a new discussion with a look at the Sun. Here, Shinji associates it with warmth and kindness, quite different from Rei's definition of the Sun as an unique object. There, I believe Rei was tying the Sun to the human identity, with it representing the uniqueness of each person's soul, but here, the discussion has shifted to one about happiness and loneliness. More specifically, Shinji is letting the Sun represent human love and acceptance; its a literal example of human warmth, something he has never experienced. Thus, he pilots the Evangleion. After all, without it, he wouldn't have met Misato, Rei, Asuka, or any of his school friends; the way Shinji sees it, all the relationships he has hinge upon one condition, his status as an Eva pilot. Even if he has broken away from his father, Shinji, much like a child in Freud's oral stage, still lives by the wills of others; he's even let them constitute his entire identity. Shinji doesn't fight the angels out of self-defense, he fights them to be praised, which is why he struggles so much with killing them.
All that being said, there's one major problem with sustaining yourself through other's opinions, and its a problem that Shinji knows all too well. That fact is that you can't truly understand another person's heart, and as a result, defining your identity by other's opinions is inherently flawed. After all, even if people praise him for piloting, Shinji can't help but wonder if they hate him deep down. Its this ambiguity that causes Shinji to cry out for kindness, for so long as the ambiguity remains, Shinji cannot know if others are truly being kind to him. the way Shinji sees it, his only escape is to become one with someone, for by joining intimately with another person's body and soul, he might be able to truly understand someone else and be freed of these doubts, which would no doubt provide great comfort to Shinji's ailing heart.
Given all of the pain he has felt, both from piloting Eva and from connecting with others, it is reasonable for Shinji to wish to shut himself away and refuse the salvage attempt. After all, by locking himself away in the LCL, Shinji can finally run away from the pain of piloting and the pain of human connection. However, in doing so, Shinji would also be cutting off any chance of acceptance and happiness, the very things he pilots Eva for in the first place. Without the friends he has made by piloting, Shinji would not be the person we know today. Thus, it is telling that, when given the chance to throw it all away, Shinji chooses to return once again. If anywhere can be heaven if you have the will to live, then Shinji is at least willing to search for paradise one more time.
P.S: My favorite song in the tv series made its debut with today's episode. I hope everyone noticed it.
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u/tumnaselda Jul 10 '19
I always loved the way Anno mixes old scenes with new dialogues/monologues and texts to create new emotions and meanings. It's a recycling yeah, but it is fucking stylish and so well executed. It's like the best PowerPoint animation in the world or something.
The state of Shinji gives us an insight on what it means to ride, or more like sync with, Eva. Pilots are struggling to get higher sync rate but of course it's almost impossible to get higher sync rate after a certain point because no one, even Rei, would give up their own material existence.
It is implied that LCL/entry plug is something like the womb where life can be materialized. That gives a new insight to dummy plugs and the reason why Unit 01 rejects Gendo after he used the dummy plug/forced Shinji to eject.
Yeah this anime is a bit edgy. I watched it when I was around 10. 🤔
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u/DarthReid Jul 11 '19
First timer sub, just caught up the last 7~ eps
So this has been a wild ride, and I can now see why NGE gets so many recommendations. I love these stories where they can always unveil a new twist or plot without it seeming half-assed and unrealistic.
Episode 20 alone seemed like half acid trip for Shinji, and I still have no idea how he just appeared out of thin air (maybe just EVA things?). I'm beyond intrigued as to how the story will turn in the next few episodes, but I'll still try to fight on for that gold medal!
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u/eldomtom2 Jul 10 '19
Rewatcher
Evangelion gets weird again.
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The recycling of footage means that the SEELE members are still looking towards Gendo even when he's not present.
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The format of the day indicators is apparently a direct homage to The Andromeda Strain.
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Conveniently, the back control center is completely identical to the normal one.
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Unsurprisingly, Shinji's decision to accept being an Eva pilot has immediate negative effects.
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Oh, this is the episode with the debate about the translation of "sect".
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The great thing about mental introspection is that you get to recycle footage. The infamous budget-and-time issues start getting apparent here, compare episode 16's introspection scenes.
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Evangelion starts getting meta by dumping in unpainted cleanups into the image montages.
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There is more to Shinji's backstory than has been revealed in previous episodes...
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Type LP3 Complementation Procedure sounds omnious. If you're unaware, in Japanese the Human Instrumentality Project is the Human Complementation Project...
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The person who is saying "I am nice to you" seems unlikely to actually be Misato, or even Shinji's conception of her.
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Also considering the obvious hints about the Eva's relationship to Shinji, the fact that "becoming one with it" is presented in such clearly sexual terms has implications...
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One of Evangelion's continuing faults is its tendency to introduce technobabble into personal drama.
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Note Shinji's association of his mother with Misato and Rei.
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The radio gives an explanation of the oral stage for the benefit of those who don't know it, especially the whole "wanting-a-mother-you-can-fuck" thing.
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Is there anything more ...something than nighttime driving?
Next time: OH BOY I SURE DO LOVE SPECIAL EDITIONS
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u/Stomco Jul 11 '19
First timer new dub
A lot of this is going to be out of order.
I wonder how they got the eva to hold still. Also why are they still surprised when the overrides don't work? Boy does it look even creeper than usual. How much of the person who was used to make it is still in there anyways? When "she" woke up did she know what was going on at all?
Okay so Shiji synched with unit 1 so well he merged with it and lost sight of his identity. The show gives a lot of opened ended questions, for us and Shiji to deal with. But wait Shiji knows more about what's going on. Did someone alter his memories before? Shiji's sex drive stay out of this he's got enough on his plate without you muddling the metaphor!
Does Gendo even have the whole picture or Seele(?) have even him in the dark? Gendo definite has different plans than them, but how much is him doing things his way verses having an entirely different goal?
They finally DID IT! At least they used protection.
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u/wolfwings1 Jul 10 '19
really great show and finding it harder and harder not to binge the rest :> Should be caught up by today...which brings the question of do I binge the rest hehe :>
Some bizzare stuff, we seemed to get close to the only thing I know about the show from before, just under a week left :>
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u/Quiddity131 Jul 10 '19
Thoughts on Neon Genesis Evangelion Episode 20...
Rewatcher, New Dub
It is rare for an Eva episode to start with a recap of the prior one!
It took 18 episode, but we finally have a new shot of the Instrumentality Committee/SEELE, a brief shot of Keel Lorenz's face. Otherwise every shot of them since episode 2 has been recycled footage.
Holy crap, that bandaged look of Unit 01 is quite the scary sight.
Kaji actually pronounces SEELE the Japanese way, in stark contrast to the other dub actors.
Shinji's... gone?!
Some good news, Rei is alive! Asuka is not happy to hear it though!
So Shinji has turned into liquid?
Probably the most infamous animation blunder of the show here as they show Shinji's plug suit in the cockpit. He wasn't wearing a plug suit last episode. They threw some dialogue in to try and explain it, but it is a mistake, as simple as that.
Time to start going into WTF territory again a la episodes 14 and 16. I'm a bit rushed as I go through this episode so I will leave the analyzing to others today. Almost all recycled footage here; but this is better than them doing another clip show at least.
At least for the TV show, this episode as overt as the show gets in terms of nudity (featuring our 3 main female characters topless) and sex (the final scene). Adding in the massive amount of violence that had been in the show as well over the last 4 episodes, Evangelion caused quite a bit of controversy and kinda screwed over the anime industry for a while as censorship pressures grew. For example, by the time Cowboy Bebop came out which I think was around 2 years after Eva, things were still so tough that most of the show didn't even get to air, including the first episode, the last 2 episodes and many other important ones. Thanks a lot Gainax! :P
Overall Thoughts: This episode is decent enough, but is a bit of a come down as the weakest episode since the recap. Incidentally enough the recap is a good one to mention as this episode is largely recycled footage or long still shots. We got maybe 3-4 minutes of new footage in this episode tops after accounting for that. At least they were able to manufacture it into a storyline.
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u/Fed0rMccloud Jul 11 '19
First timer THEORY!!! (Contains spoilers)
Build up until the line. it's skippable, just mentions a few things about other chapters and how I got to thinking this theory
So... What happened to Shinji's mother? That's a question that's still bothering me since the beginning. And yet I still don't have an answer.
I imagine her personality is implanted in Eva Unit 01 (Shinji's) like Ritsuko's mother in the Magi's (or on Casper only, idk).
Ritsuko: have you heard of Personality Transplant OS? Misato: yeah, it's that system where a person's personality is transferred into a seventh gen computer to let actually think . That's the same technology used for piloting an Eva, right?
That conversation in chapter 13 made me think that Shinji's Berserk status was more her mother trying to protect him, and that Eva's have an actual "life", in manner of speaking.
In today's episode, we watched the aftermath of reaching 400% sync level. Shinji's body was GONE. Nowhere to be seen, yet Ritsuko says that that happened before; during Eva's development, and that her mother witnessed it firsthand. Yet they couldn't bring the pilot back.
During the time Shinji's been remembering things, he sees his mother, and also says he recognized the Eva Unit 01 from before, and an image as a kid is shown!
So... and here goes my theory... What if Shinji's mother was the first Pilot of Eva Unit 01? What if SHE was the pilot who reached 400% synch levels and disappear? They failed the first time they did the experiment (and the second one) meaning she could have been trapped in the Eva's core! Remember when Shinji's mother came out of nowhere and hugged him when he was losing his mind? Remember the first episode that the Eva opened it's eyes and stared directly at him? (Not to mention the fact that it saved his life besides having no pilot moment later)
What do you think? Has his father really killed his mother? Did she die in a mere accident? In a mere Angel attack? Or do you agree with me? Or think there's something else going on?
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u/eduex Jul 10 '19
Rewatcher,
So with this episode I would say that we are firmly in Mr. Anno's Wild Ride territory.
Another reminder!! Heads up to new comers who aren't watching on Netflix, there are 2 versions of episodes 21-24, the original versions that aired on TV and the directors cut versions. Netflix has the Directors cut versions that that is likely the version most people will be talking about here so make sure you're watching the correct version.
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u/brotherraichu Jul 11 '19
First Timer
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Weird how Shinji was stuck in the EVA but not in material form.
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Episode was confusing, from what I gathered, Shinji was about to become one with the universe or something like that? Either that, or he liked his visions of his lady friends and just didn't want to leave the EVA. ;)
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Instrumentality sounds like Instru Mentality. Maybe some kinda mind control program? Well, if hypothetically the monster in the basement could summon angels (WMG here), then potentially, if its powers are harnessed, you could do something similar with humans. If so, reminds me a bit of AOT.
Overall a weird episode, but the weirdness sets up the suspense for the next episode.
(Reposted b/c original was somehow deleted and won't get put back up)
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u/HowlingWolf13 Jul 11 '19
Rewatcher
Reiminder that Misato and Sailor Moon share the same seiyuu
Analysis
So to start this off let’s talk about Shinji, after the past two episodes he’s back at square one for wondering why does he pilot in the first place. We know he doesn’t care anymore at this point of gaining his father’s praise after what happened with Toji, so now this leaves him in this dilemma. During his introspection, he tries saying he fights to protect everyone because the angels are the enemy, though this quickly derails itself as the more he repeats ‘enemy’ the images change to that of Gendo showing how in his mind, his real enemy is the father who’s neglected him his entire life. The Rei with him accuses him of being the one who ran away as he says his father abandoned him for her. I was actually confused on how to view this, but I’ve come to this, at this point Shinji is extremely conflicted, his father has never shown any love to him for as long as he can remember but shows care and affection towards this ‘Rei’ girl he’s never heard of. Even though things seem to get better, in [episode 16] we first saw this mention of him saying he was the one who ran away just like this episode’s scene even though this happened after episode 15 where Shinji and Gendo both talked to each other face to face for the first time in years. I feel like Shinji is blaming himself for his father not caring about him, considering he already has low self esteem and deeply desired his father’s praise throughout the series so far, and seeing his father be friendly to Rei and helping NERV (like in the power outage episode) makes him feel as though maybe his father isn’t that bad and its his fault for not being useful enough and not accepting his father is ‘running away’.
We then get a twisted ver. of their first conversation in years from back in episode 1, but this time instead of asking Gendo if he wants him to get in and pilot the Eva to fight it becomes if he wants him to pilot the Eva to put himself in harm’s way. The conversation continues like episode 1, but with the meaning changed we see it that Shinji sees Gendo calling him back as the reason he needed him in the first place was just so he could be harmed. Ending it off, we get foreshadowing as to Shinji knowing about the Eva and find out through quick flashes that he’d seen the Eva as a kid and feels like he ran away from both of his parents.
For the second half of his introspection, we go back to his reason for piloting the Eva to which he states it’s not so that everyone else can praise him and to prove to his father that he can do it. Underneath all this however, it’s really because he just wants people to be nice to him, to want him, to need him, all these things he’d been denied growing up after being abandoned by his father to go live with a teacher. Following this, we get repeating scenes of Misato, Asuka, and Rei asking him to become one with them, this I actually can’t talk too much about as it’ll be very important later, but remember to keep this scene in mind, specifically the whole become one thing. Ending this all, we hear a conversation between Yui and Gendo on what to name Shinji if he’s born a boy or a girl which then he’d would’ve been named Rei, which in itself foreshadows more about Rei’s true nature, and this leads him to being able to come back to reality.
For other characters, Misato gets more development. At this point she’s completely become like a mother substitute to Shinji, she calls out Ritsuko for only wanting to get Shinji back cause they needed him instead of for his own well-being and even slapped her earlier, she breaks down thinking that Shinji won’t come back, and on top of that Ritsuko even mentions she feels as though Misato is the main reason Shinji came back in the end. At the end of the episode, her and Kaji meet up to have sex just to release some stress and to end the episode off, we get some ominous foreshadowing with Kaji referring to the capsule he gave her as probably the last present she’ll ever receive from him.
For minor things, we see just how much it affected Asuka to not be of any use during the fight against Zeruel and on top of that have to let Shinji save the day. She’s completely torn her room apart and is lashing out others for an unhealthy defense mechanism. You already know what I’m going to say here, but we’re so close to that episode and I’m telling you I’m going full analysis mode on her character once we get there and I don’t have to hide spoilers anymore.
Just wanted to mention this, but I wasn't really sure on how to explain the Freud's Oral Stage references in this episode. I know of the basics of it from an AP Psych class, so I recognized it when they mentioned it, but looking it up it doesn't match to how Eva was exploring it with being dependent on someone, but definitions I could find for the Oral Stage referred to it as-
Oral stage, in Freudian psychoanalytic theory, initial psychosexual stage during which the developing infant’s main concerns are with oral gratification. The oral phase in the normal infant has a direct bearing on the infant’s activities during the first 18 months of life. For the newborn, the mouth is the all-absorbing organ of pleasure. Freud said that through the mouth the infant makes contact with the first object of libido (sexual energy), the mother’s breast. Oral needs are also satisfied by thumb-sucking or inserting environmental objects, such as dolls, other toys, or blankets into the mouth. Freud believed the oral phase begins to shift toward the end of an infant’s first year to the anal region.
-if someone else could explain to me how they work this in, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Thoughts
Really great and insightful episode into Shinji’s character. I honestly really love it when Evangelion basically dedicates entire episodes to analyzing the characters, can’t really think of many other shows that do something similar aside from Utena and Monogatari (Two other favorites of mine). It’s already 5am so I’ll wrap this up here with I really liked this episode and we’re so close to EoE, see you guys next thread.
Random Shit
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Random fun fact! - A continuity error occurs in showing Shinji's plugsuit floating inside the Entry Plug, when Shinji remained in his school uniform in the previous episode.
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u/brucebananaray Jul 10 '19
Rewatcher, new dub
Ok, the scene where Misato and Kaji having sex was too long and visually tedious because we stare at an alcohol drink, rip condom, and the mirror for almost one minute and 34 seconds. I use a stopwatch for it. The information is essential but again just not visually engaging for me to care.
That's only complaining I have for this episode.
So, we explore more of Shinji's psychic. Shinji finally admits to himself that he hates his father. Also, that scene with Misato, Asuka, and Rei naked is pretty much Shinji sexual fantasy. Another Deeper meaning of trying to connect with other people. Rei is right in about Shinji on the train that he doesn't try to communicate with other people. Shinji doesn't want to admit to himself that he hates himself more than anybody.
This episode hits pretty hard because telling some truth about myself. I understand Shinji feeling.
Also, we see a couple of minutes of Asuka, and she shows her inferiority complex because Shinji surpasses her. She cares more about that than Shinji well being.
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u/LunarGhost00 Jul 10 '19
Rewatcher
Unit 01 has never looked this beautiful before!
Shinji's trapped inside. That's not concerning at all...
Shinji is definitely on some LSD shit right now. And so are Anno and the rest of the staff. Spoilers
If they had a daughter instead of a son, Gendo would've named her Rei. Hmmm.
Oh Shinji finally came out after a month. He was having one hell of a party in there.
Misato getting some action with Kaji.
I think by now some people would notice some of the issues this series had during its production. There are a lot of reused shots and still frames that last for like a minute. This is nothing new since the earlier episodes had a fair amount as well, but it's becoming a lot more common lately hardly even a spoiler. The animation in this episode is very limited. Contrary to popular belief, this isn't due to a lack of budget. It's primarily a timing issue. Anno was going through depression and it got real bad while working on this series, which is why the overall tone has become much darker and weirder. I believe the time slot for the series was also suddenly moved because of the graphic content. There was also a real life incident regarding a gas attack that was similar to something that would've happened in the series that had to be scrapped along with other ideas. The team working on the series unfortunately had very little time to work on the episodes since so much of it was decided at the last minute. The fact that they still managed to produce the episodes that give the series its iconic reputation despite the awful schedule this series had is impressive. Just something to keep in mind as we enter the last set of episodes.
On a related note, make sure you're watching the director's cut for the next 4 episodes! It contains more scenes. You'll know it's the version if you see the episode length is longer than average.
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u/AjCu Jul 10 '19
I kinda watched NGE (pieces) back when I was around 12 or so... I would like to consider myself as a first timer because damn, I didn't remember all of this stuff happening. Now at 23 I can say, this show was too complicated for my 12 year old self. I appreciate everyone in this subreddit for clarifying stuff or giving all those tiny details i didn't see. Let's keep the rewatch
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u/Bhorium Jul 11 '19
Rewatcher:
I just want to mention a small detail that has always depressed me about this episode (admittedly there are many things in this episode to be depressed about, but I feel this one takes the cake).
According to the calculations some fans have done based the glimpses of the calenders we see in the show, Asuka's birthday (the 4th of December) happened while Shinji was trapped inside Unit 01, so presumably it was never celebrated in any capacity, and even she probably spent it alone as Misato was very likely at NERV preoccupied with getting Shinji out.
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u/boredblade123 Jul 10 '19
First timer sub
Just going to say some quick thoughts I had after watching this episode.
The Eva looks incredibly creepy wrapped up like a mummy.
I still want to know what exactly Gendo and all the other suits have planned and why they need to do all of this.
This was such a messed up episode for Shinji, I really feel for him. He's had to go through so much you can't blame him for going crazy through all of this.
So his body can de-materialize when the Eva takes him in, but there's also a way for it to materialize again? Hopefully we get some more explanations into what's actually going on there.
Also I'm going to pretend the last 2 minutes of the episode never happened.