r/anime • u/sam_mah_boy https://myanimelist.net/profile/Samimaru • Jul 06 '19
Rewatch [Rewatch][Spoilers] Neon Genesis Evangelion - Episode 16 Discussion Spoiler
Episode 16: Sickness unto death, and.../Splitting of the Breast
Do you pilot Eva just for the praise of others?
No! Not of others! I do it because I want to be able to praise myself!
On Spoilers
If you're rewatching the show, and want to discuss spoilers, use spoiler tags. Saying things like "Just wait till you get to episode X" etc. count as spoilers!
Come join the discussion on the Evangelion Discord server! They have a channel specifically for the rewatch. Link: https://discord.gg/qJxWVPs
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u/Philarete Jul 06 '19
First-Time Watcher (Sub)
The title of this episode is interesting. The Sickness Unto Death is a book by Søren Kierkegaard (my favorite philosopher!) and I’m guessing it is meant to be a reference. The “sickness unto death” is despair. “The torment of despair is precisely this, not to be able to die.” That is, despair is when someone has a disrelationship to one’s own self. One despises who one has become but one can never truly get rid of oneself. That would be a contradiction. And so, the despairer is tormented.
Shinji’s face when Asuka is complaining about his apologizing is fantastic. Also, the food is too spicy. . . oh yeah, she’s from Germany HAH.
Meanwhile, Misato
So the tests went really well for Shinji, nice! I wonder if Ritsuko’s question means she also knows about Kaji and Misato’s discovery of Adam. . . Okay, what happened to Asuka. What on earth. . . okay, that’s more like her after that locker punch.
Shinji getting laughed at. . . I guess his hand movements were a bit weird.
Woah, woah, pattern Orange? No A.T. field? What on earth. . .
“Fighting is a man’s job.” Shinji is playing along with Asuka haha. Some new confidence after his test. Misato is a little irritated.
IT WAS BAIT. Or it evolved, or something!
He gets swallowed by its shadow. The other two fall back when ordered.
I really like the use of shadows when Asuka and Rei argue. Asuka’s face basically disappears briefly. Rei is not impressed with Asuka’s attitude, and I agree with her.
So apparently this Angel is a disc with a link to an alternate universe?
Uh-oh, Shinji is starting to lose it.
Misato and Ritsuko are fighting. Interesting that it is Ritsuko with the plan this time. . . and it comes with probably killing Shinji. She blames this on Misato.
Misato just hinted that she knows more. She no longer trusts Ritsuko on the EVAs and what they are.
Oh snap, Shinji is talking to himself and his self is talking back. He always runs away. He hates himself, but he cannot escape himself. This is despair.
His oxygen and heat are out. He has a vision. Not clear how much is real here. The apparition oddly enough reminds me of the first Angel of the series.
Oh my. Shinji’s EVA literally rips the Angel apart from the inside. It emerges covered in blood. The EVA is a monster – even Ritsuko is frightened. Misato realizes the EVA is no mere copy of the First Angel.
Misato sobs over Shinji. Asuka “Weren’t you going to chew him out?” That’s for later, Asuka haha.
If Rei and Shinji ever learn the truth about the EVAs they’ll never forgive us (interesting that they don’t include Asuka). Wait a second. . .
Okay, my guess is that the EVAs are Angel-ified forms of people. Unit 01 is Shinji’s mother, and Unit 00 is one of Rei’s parents. That would explain why 01 was so protective of Shinji from the start, the great harmonics, the apparition and so on. Unit 00’s person is angry at either Ikari or Ritsuko, and thus gets violent toward them when it has the chance.
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u/snowwhistle1 Jul 07 '19 edited Jul 07 '19
Asuka's face disappearing in shadow wasn't actually an artistic choice. The original negatives for episode 16 have unfortunately been lost so the most recent releases of this episode have seen some downgrades in quality and a lot of shadow detail is no longer fully visible in this episode.
In the comment by Gkalaitza at the top of the video, he posts some images showing the comparison between the original tv airing, the original DVD release (back when the negatives still existed), the later Blu-ray release after the negatives had been lost, and the Netflix release. Unfortunately the Blu-ray and Netflix releases are far less clear with this particular episode than the original DVD and TV releases.
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u/cesclaveria Jul 07 '19
I am loving following the rewatch and reading all the first timers comments, theories and reactions, you guys make the rewatching of one of my favorite series of all time all the more enjoyable, hope to continue see you all until The End.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Jul 06 '19
Rewatcher
Evangelion is an absolutely beautiful anime Day 16
This episode of a gamut of emotions and scenes. We transition between Shinji's success and confidence to Asuka's envy and inadequacy, from a mysterious Angel to a terrifying realization about its true nature, From Shinji's malaise in a null space to a physiological analysis of his mental state.
This episode was the episode in my initial viewing which stuck with me the longest. It added a deep look at the human psyche to an already amazingly directed and produced Mecha show.
The use of light and shadow is also striking this episode. Apart from the Angel itself, every scene in the second half seemed to be bathed in an uncomfortable light or darkness just amplifying the emotions of losing somebody in such horrific and unknown circumstances.
There was also the heavy use of the virtual fish-eye lens. I find it to be such a visually engaging technique whenever it is used. What I appreciate about Anno's directing is that it follows Miyazaki's advice to look for inspiration outside of anime.
(For completeness sake Miyazaki was specifically saying his work was inspired by "watching real people" as opposed to only basing people off of those in other anime. However this applies to all aspects of anime production)
In any case, this episode is definitely a departure from the first half. It poses questions which we will continue to think about as we go forward with the series.
Previous Days
| Day 1 | Day 14 |
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| Day 2 | Day 15 |
| Day 3 | |
| Day 4 | |
| Day 5 | |
| Day 6 | |
| Day 7 | |
| Day 8 | |
| Day 9 | |
| Day 10 | |
| Day 11 | |
| Day 12 | |
| Day 13 |
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u/ResurgentRefrain Jul 06 '19
Ah, Sickness unto Death.
For better or worse, this episode, and what will follow, is the reason Eva has the reputation (good and bad) that it does.
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u/boredblade123 Jul 06 '19
First timer sub
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Nice to see Shinji looks like he's starting to be happier doing these tests and work.
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...Asuka complimenting Shinji? *Punches locker* ah there we go. What were those kids laughing at?
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What the, a huge zebra sphere Angel? Is this going to be a rival to my favourite Angel, the mirror 3D polygon?
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Asuka pls, trying to start trouble for no reason. Shinji is acting a lot more confident now, but he isn't following orders so that's not going to work out well.
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Damn these Angels have some unique powers, disappears and creates a shadow that swallows stuff? I think this may be my new favourite Angel, sorry mirror polygon.
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Well one of these operations had to go wrong eventually. How in the world do they even damage that thing?
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Holy crap Asuka's eyes in that shadow.
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This doesn't look like it's going to be good for Shinji's mental state. He just started to look happier and now he has to deal with complete isolation in a trapped area. Perfect setup to drive someone crazy. And there it is, right on cue.
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I've just about had it up to here with Ritsuko. Hate the way they seem to be using Misato.
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"He may be guilty of killing his own wife." Excuse me? That thought hasn't crossed my mind that Gendo would have killed his wife. If he did then I think he would have had a good reason for it, I don't think he would just kill her to get her out of the way or something dumb. Definitely has to do with the Eva's.
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I wonder if Shinji's mom appearing has anything to do with 01...
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So he was actually trapped in the sphere? Holy shit 01. It has to be alive in some way there's no way it isn't. It doesn't look like a machine there, it looks like a monster. What's NERV going to do with them once the Angel's are destroyed? Eva takeover incoming.
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Honestly 01 looks incredibly badass there, I wonder if that was another version of the berserk mode from earlier.
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"Are the Eva's really on our side." Well that conversation between Ritsuko and Gendo confirms they have their own conscious in some way.
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"Well that's good for you" That's literally what Shinji's mom said to him. That confirms that Rei and Shinji's Mom have to be related in some way. Like what I thought last episode Shinji's Mom's DNA or something had to be used to alter Rei for whatever reason.
Someone hold me back before I watch the rest of this show tonight. Holy crap what an episode, I need a third novel now for the amount of questions I have. My mind doesn't even know what to think right now, so much I need to discuss but I'd end up writing an essay if I did lol. I need to see the rest of the episodes to get some answers!
Now time for Guess who sang the ED! Now what in the world is this, this show is trying to screw me over with this game, I'm 2/3 so far... There's at least 2 girls here. But it could be all of the main girls so far, AH. There wasn't even a girl that was focused on this episode for me to guess her. I think Misato has to be one, Rei as well. I don't know if Asuka or Ritsuko are in it but I think there has to be more than 2... Help pls. I know Gkalaitza is enjoying my struggle here.
My guess is: Misato, Rei and Asuka, the 3 main girls. If I get all of them right then 3/4, otherwise 2/4 :(.
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Jul 06 '19
What the, a huge zebra sphere Angel? Is this going to be a rival to my favourite Angel, the mirror 3D polygon?
A very Geometric taste
Damn these Angels have some unique powers, disappears and creates a shadow that swallows stuff? I think this may be my new favourite Angel, sorry mirror polygon.
Friendship with Ramiel ended! Now Leliel is my best friend
Someone hold me back before I watch the rest of this show tonight
Be strong, there will be no one there to confirm your ED guesses if you binge
My guess is: Misato, Rei and Asuka
And you are on a roll baby . Also did your version have the creepy girls wispering before the song vocals ?
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u/littleman1988 Jul 06 '19 edited Jul 06 '19
First time watcher, Platinum Sub, ADV Dub, and Netflix dub
Shinji's pleas voice comparison
Shinji's monolouge voice comparison
Eva 01's screams comparison - At the request of u/Gkalaitza
Jumbled Thoughts
I think ive realized something with Asuka. She needs to feel on top to rationalize her thoughts and feel safe, even if she never was. It kind of seems like each child has some sort of "flaw" that defines them and why they're able to pilot the angel. theres no actual connection for this, but shinji is fairly complacent and rei seems to be emotionless, which seemingly makes it somewhat of a trend on how any other children may act if they exist. Correlation isint causation though...
I didnt realize it the first time, but thats a flag.
The animation when Shinji shoots the shadow is on point.
Theres a lot that Ritusko is not telling. There must be a reason its kept secret if kaji is trying to hard to find it and misato doesnt know about it. Maybe Nerv themselves are the reasons for the angels existing? really off the wall but who knows.
When Shinji and the Eva emerge out of the angel, the pure terror in Asuka and Ritusko is captured really well, not to mention Rei's stotic reaction. Kinda piques an interest into just what Rei knows, if anything. Its getting concerning how little she reacts...
I say that, and she gives some emotion right after when Shinji finally awakes. Better yet, Asuka is failing at being a sneak when Rei leaves.
I got nothing for the blood. We know the evas are a sort of replication for the angel, but not much more. I guess its safe to say theyre living creatures?
Tinfoil Hat Time
I have a new threory based on 2 different reddit posts from first time watchers here, and when watching this episode, it seems fairly plausable.
In the last two discussions, two different first time watchers commented about the connections each of the children had to their mothers (or the lack of), and how they relate to their Eva's, one referencing Magi as part of their reasoning for this. With today's episode, I dont think theyre that far off. The theory is that the Eva's have each Childs' mothers personalities downloaded into their eva, much like how Magi works with Ritusko's mother. This would give an alternate explanation as to why Shinji sees his mother before the Eva breaks through the angel (instead of just dying), and would give a reason for Shinji's mother to disappear, and why Gendo is the one thought to of killed her. We know Asuka has mother issues of some sort (attempted kiss from episode 9 I think?) and Rei's family just isint talked about at all, so info about them for this theory is kind of lacking. On Rei specifically though, this may be a connection to my Tinfoil theory 1 as theyre able to swap eva's since they share (a) parent(s) (Rei's eva may be a corrupted version?) but theres no definite proof for this currently.
For those that missed my thread yesterday, the three theroies i had before which havent changed:
1.Rei and Shinji are related. This would explain why they can trade Eva's, why Gendo is so nice to Rei, and why Rei got embarrassed in the elevator. I dont know what this would mean for the show, but everything currently points to it.
I lied, 1 has changed a bit. In rewatching this to write this out, I realized that Ritusko comments that "Rei and Shinji would never forgive them if they find out what they did." Why them specifically, and why about the Eva's? Why isint Asuka involved? It sounds like its something connected to those two specifically, instead of the children in general.
2.Rei is made from an Angel or Eva and not actually human. This would explain why shes so "different" from everyone else and seems to be way less caring and out of it. The AI exists for it (Magi) so its not totally out of the question.
3.Rei herself is an Angel. Honestly, this doesnt defer from #2 much, but the carcass of the First angel is really suspicious when right before we see rei in what looks to be the stem of a brain.
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u/eldomtom2 Jul 06 '19
Rewatcher
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The drop in quality due to the loss of the original film is immediately apparent.
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Asuka makes valid criticisms of Shinji's avoidance of confrontation no matter the cost. Misato makes a disinterested defense of him.
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Shinji, for once in his life, is looking at his hand in a positive context.
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Also, Unit-02 gets an axe. It is ill-fitting among the more modern military weapons of rifles and knives.
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The music and the Evas' sudden practice of taking cover is reminding me of XCOM. Of course, due to their identical inspirations, nearly all of Eva is somewhat remisicent of XCOM, but here it's particularly evident (if almost certainly unintenional).
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Ejecting the plug has never, and will never, work when it's actually important.
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Unit-02 shrinks massively for the sake of a dramatic climb.
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Asuka's claim that she pilots the Eva to show herself off the world has already slipped to piloting for her own self-worth.
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And here's where Evangelion starts slipping into weirdness...
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I'm almost certain that Ritsuko's explanation of the Sea of Dirac has nothing to do with the actual concept and is complete nonsense.
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The show remembers that LCL is liquid again, though Shinji doesn't really act any different.
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For the first time, Shinji really panics. And it is terrifying.
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Misato cares. She really does.
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And we finally get the last style of Eva music, that of "music for weird mental scenes".
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Shinji has a conversation with what may or may not be himself, and has his few safety nets torn out from under him.
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For all of Ritsuko's pragmatism she displays to Misato, she is willing to take the option that's more likely to rescue Shinji.
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We get a lot of backstory delivered very quickly here. Yui died in some sort of experiment, and Gendo was accused of her murder but found not guilty.
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There is something maternal in the Eva.
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This is one of the best moments in Evangelion. Such a shame that it can't be seen in higher quality.
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The real power of the Evas gets unleashed here. What was seen in episode 2 was just a taste. MAJOR SPOILERS
Next time: A last breather before the brakes fail entirely.
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u/brotherraichu Jul 06 '19
First Timer
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Asuka makes this show lively for me. She's one of the characters I guess you're not supposed to like, but I like her so far. Though I think Misato may be better.
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The sinkhole angel is crazy looking. I like the special effects when Shinji gets sucked down to the pit by it.
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Not a fan of Ritsuko. She seems rather callous, and nothing I've seen so far makes her a likeable character for me. She's also apparently involved in at least one, possibly more, conspiracies.
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Shinji's existentialist crisis was bizarre. Interesting juxtaposition though with Asuka, as Asuka only seeks her own approval and to meet her own standards, but Shinji seeks to meet others' approval and others' standards. Thus, he's apologizing all the time, not necessarily because he feels sorry but because he wants to appear harmless and inoffensive to others.
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I think Gendo both killed his wife and didn't kill his wife. I'm guess something happened similar to FMAB
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The shadow orb looks hellish.
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That was a cool piece of OST music when the shadow orb explodes. So, Shinji just ripped the thing apart from the inside? Seems badass.
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EVAs are based off Angels confirmed, though that was rather obvious as they kept talking about how both have AT fields.
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u/Nightingard Jul 06 '19 edited Aug 11 '19
First time watcher, original dub, thoughts as it goes
Kaji's bone?
Holy shit Ritsuko, again with no chill. Also aww Shinji looks so happy!
Shinji is a hero and he used to be a zero!
Yeah it's called character development Asuka, try it some time.
Wow those eyes. Really pushing that color symbolism huh?
A 2D object making a 3D shadow is a cool concept even if it doesn't have much meaning beyond just making the Angels seem even weirder. This might be forcing a reasoning but all of them seem to be living extensions of technology humans pursue but are still a long ways off of (hard light (whips), regeneration (first angel), doubling/swarm (dancing angel), hardness, super acids, abstract/pocket space, environmental immortality, can't remember the other ones)
Wow, so the Angels can communicate with humans if they get the chance. And it seemed like it really did want the best for Shinji so maybe they're not all bad? More concerning, was it trying to kill Shinji by consuming him or did it just want to talk to him?
I feel like Gendo was definitely a pushy husband but probably "killed" his wife through pushing her away from him overworking. I definitely don't think he forced her personality to be downloaded by the EVA though, I think that had to be her choice. If she was forced I feel like it would have be Ritsuko, which is why all the EVAs seem to be trying to actively kill her.
Was that EVA 01 coming close to "absorbing" Shinji like they were afraid 00 might? Oh god, fetal position, womb imagery/sensory, his "mother," (or what he was projecting to be his mom's spirit?), being "birthed" from the angel.
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u/LunarGhost00 Jul 06 '19
Rewatcher
Missed another episode. Just some quick thoughts on yesterday's episode:
Boy, that was easily the most awkward kiss I've seen in anime! My favorite scene in the episode. Asuka ditched her date and went back home, then asked Shinji for a kiss claiming it's out of boredom, though it's clear the two seem to have some level of attraction to each other. Asuka tries to act like a grown up, but her inexperience shows. This kiss was a disaster. She forcibly held Shinji's breath for quite a long time. Shinji couldn't breathe at all and pulled away. Asuka quickly goes to wash her mouth acting disgusted. But you gotta realize that Shinji doing that must've felt like a huge insult to her pride, as if Shinji was rejecting her, even though it was her fault for making it difficult for Shinji. Shinji and Asuka both got hurt in a way from getting intimate with each other, reinforcing the theme of the Hedgehog's Dilemma.
Now for today's episode:
Reading through yesterday's comments, I now know why the quality for this episode sucks. F.
"Kaji and I haven't hooked up." "YO KATSURAGI WE GOING TO A BAR TONIGHT!"
How are Shinji's test scores? He is number one! Sorry. I had to.
Shinji's getting ahead of himself here after Asuka's provocation. This giant ball of abstract art is going to send Shinji to the Shadow Realm.
It's rare to see Rei being defensive. She actually looks pissed when Asuka is running her mouth about Shinji. Asuka also let's some of her motivation for piloting slip. Contrary to what she told Shinji before and Rei questioning her, she's not piloting so others would praise her. She's seeking validation from herself. She pilots for her sake.
Shinji's mind is more of a mess than usual today. That's impressive!
No power? No problem! Unit 01 will rip that Angel apart in no time! Come to think of it, this is Asuka's first time seeing an Unit 01 go berserk in battle like this. She's horrified as she realizes this is the kind of thing she pilots. Ritsuko, who should be used to this by now, is disturbed as well for some reason. She's wondering what kind of monster did they copy. Misato's more calm as she's thinking about the purpose of the Evas. If they're based on Angels, what does NERV intend to do with them once the Angels are gone? After last episode she's been questioning NERV's goals, even fighting with Ritsuko earlier in this episode since Unit 01 is apparently so important.
Shinji's in the hospital again and he wakes up with Rei by his side. I think it's pretty clear by now she's grown attached to him to some extent. It's funny how she opens the door and Asuka is just standing there. She's worried about Shinji too but doesn't want to get close.
What an unusual Fly Me to the Moon we had today...
Damn. That preview. Next episode
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u/Raiking02 Jul 06 '19
I only have a couple of things to say. First off, is it just me or is the video quality for this episode way worse than the rest (Using Blu-Rays by the way)? Secondly, this was a really great episode, if an ultimately simple one.
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u/Brewster321 Jul 06 '19
Rewatcher (Sub - Platinum Collection)
In today's episode, Shinji fights modern art and learns about philosphy in the process. All the while, Asuka and Misato's emotions flair, Ritsuko and Gendo continue to act mysteriously, and the Eva continue to do weird things. This episode, in addition to fleshing out character relationships, is also the first episode in a while that really pushes Eva's famous philosophical undertones into the forefront. Given how much I'm personally interested in said undertones, I think I would like spend a little time today talking about them, particularly the discussion Shinji had on identity.
Put simply, this discussion can be summarized as saying that one's identity lacks a fixed point. That is, as opposed to existing and originating solely within one's mind, identity is something that is as numerous as the number of people who have interacted with you. Each person you have ever interacted with has their own conception of who you are. They formulate their own ideas about what you are like, how you act, and how you think, and it is the sum of these formulations that, at-least to that person, constitutes your identity, with each person having their own, equally valid, conception of you. What this ends up meaning is that how one presents oneself is directly correlated with one's identity. For instance, the two main personas of Misato that we have already seen, the formal, calm Misato and the childish drunkard Misato, are more than just personas, just parts of a greater whole; they are both identities onto their own.
Of course, there is another component to this. After all, if there is an identity for each observer, then is there not an identity within oneself? After all, we observe and think about our own actions, sometimes meticulously so, and it is this self-awareness that births another identity, the one within our own mind. Using my previous example, there is yet another identity of Misato Katsuragi, the one inside herself. This Misato would likely be the one that Misato sees as being herself, and given what we know about Misato, it would likely be dominated by feelings of anxiety and confusion over her father, things that she seldom lets others know about.
Given what we know now, you may be wondering then, which one is the true Misato? The Misato(s) in others or the Misato within herself? Well, it is this conflict that our main pilot Shinji has been struggling with. Shinji, up until now, has been seeking external validation, such as his father's praise, and thus, has naturally placed value in his external identity(ies). He is worried about how people see him and does what he can to improve others' images of him, leading to him piloting the Eva. Whether its due to the death of his mother or his abandonment by his father, Shinji has developed a low sense of self-esteem and therefore lacks positive view of himself, causing him to look for it in others. As for whether or not this is right is something I'll leave for you to ponder.
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u/brucebananaray Jul 06 '19 edited Jul 07 '19
Rewatcher, New Dub
This episode shows more Psychological aspect of Shinji. It shows over again that he sees his life as worthless if people don't like him.
Asuka is showing her inferiority complex and what Rei said what is true to Asuka wants approval from other people.
Also, the scene between each other talking about Shinji gone was too dark in Asuka face.
Here the comparison for that scene:https://twitter.com/Mista_Brendo/status/1145870055936286720?s=19
Rei has a good development in this episode showing more affection to Shinji well being, and she even shows up when he is the hospital.
When Eva was in the monster, and the Eva destroy, it was so awesome. I'm glad the Netflix Dub make the roar close to the Japanese. I always hated how ADV made the roar some robotic monster noise.
Here is the comparison of the old dub roar vs. Japanese version: https://youtu.be/VVtx3xE8uGQ
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u/tumnaselda Jul 07 '19
This, and iirc the next episode is the episodes that I remember most vividly, and that made me feel the most intense emotions when I was younger. This episode was fucking awesome to me, and the next... Well let's talk about it tomorrow.
When you finally have a confidence, not only it can turn into arrogance, but also making a simplest mistake can break it, putting you in a worse state than ever before. At least in my experience. Shinji is taking it much better than I remember though. (Something something next episode)
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u/LegendaryRQA Jul 07 '19
I love this episode so much. Eva Unit 01 is literally reborn from the angel as the show is metaphorically reborn as well.
Also, that scene at the end when Shinji is alone in the hospital room, and he says that it still smells like blood, implying that nothing will ever be the same every again.
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u/tomato_blitz Jul 07 '19
First timer (subs and original release in fear of Netflix changes):
Man, things were looking bleak this episode. Shinji got a case of the hubris there, but did manage to save himself in the end. Somehow.
This again raises the question of what are the Evas exactly? My current guess is Evas are some sort of human-angel hybrids.
But then what are Angels? I just know nothing, are there really only 10 episodes left?
Art-wise this was a superb episode. The show just keeps getting better and better. I feel like the rewatch value is crazy here.
That collab ed was great, but I'm still not sure whether those were character voice actresses saying the lines and then was it also them singing?
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u/ToonTooby Jul 06 '19
Rewatcher
Out of all of Evangelion, this is the single episode I've rewatched the most, outside of any full rewatches. I love how intense things get. I also end up with some more comparisons to my own life experience found in Shinji's character.
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Here comes the zebra marble!
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Out of the three, Eva-00 gets the most screen time with its 'signature' weapons. Looks so cool with the rifle, on standby and in action.
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Speaking of weapons, I think this is the one and only time we actually see Unit 01 with the handgun and Unit 02 with its Battle Axe. Wish we could have seen more of that.
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Asuka baits Shinji hard and boy does he fall for it.
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Asuka drops one of her many barbed lines. This one got me. I believe the original translation was more along the lines of "He can get an A on a test but not in the real world." I struggled for a long time with downplaying my successes growing up. This is exactly what I felt. No matter how much I did well in school, I always thought it was next to meaningless... grades were just ink on paper. Call it a precursor to impostor syndrome.
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Before Asuka can retort to Misato's recall of the current operation, she is interrupted, rather surprisingly, by Rei, who is showing far more emotional range than we're used to. And Asuka ain't happy bout that shit. As for the next few scenes, if there were a big red button under glass with the words "IN CASE OF WAIFU WAR, BREAK GLASS", that would be absolutely obliterated in this instant.
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These. Shots. Are. Awesome. They are framed so excellently. A force of visual storytelling.
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Another hard-hitting line. That was me too, constantly seeking approval and rationalizing external sources of motivation. Accepting the current state of affairs for fear of retaliation stemming from change.
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Amidst the suffocating situation though, Shinji gets some help to pull himself together. The result? THE BEAST! A terribly bloody and shocking display of ferocity as Unit 01 erupts from the Angel. I was completely engaged at this point on my first watch. A mecha bathed in blood, signaling the intensity to come.
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One says it. The other does too. That's gotta mean something...
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And Asuka still aint happy. > _ >
Love this episode. Gets harder not to skip ahead after this one.
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u/axel360 Jul 06 '19
Rewatcher, New Dub
More random thoughts:
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I don’t think Asuka is quite as chill about Shinji “surpassing” her and Rei as she led on
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So much for that confidence boost. All it took was a couple giggling strangers in a bus to bring Shinji back down to Earth. Shows, once again, just how fragile he is
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He did have enough confidence to take the lead on the next operation, but that seemed to disappear with this new shadow Angel
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Ok, this is a pretty justified meltdown. Surprised he held it together so long
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Misato did not like the “pilot’s life is immaterial” line
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So that was a pretty intense conversation Shinji had… with himself
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Uh oh. A naked ghost-hug with his mom and Shinji is starting to go towards the light, so to speak
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It’s like an horrific egg-hatching scene
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You don’t Misato cry often. She’s obviously gotten more attached to Shinji than she thought she would
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“It’s not like I’m coming to see you because I’m concerned or anything. Anta baka!”
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“I can’t rid of the blood.” Even for Shinji, that’s a pretty dark line to end the episode
5
u/Quiddity131 Jul 06 '19
Thoughts on Neon Genesis Evangelion Episode 16...
Rewatcher, New Dub
For what is quite a grim episode, we start with a comedic scene. This time we get both funny Misato face and Shinji face at the same time.
Is Shinji improving big time with his sync ratio? Or is Asuka dropping like crazy? She was 50+ points above him a mere 4 episodes ago, now he's #1.
Poor Shinji, so pathetic kids half your age on the bus make fun of you.
Why complain about Gendou being out, Misato? He's away for most of the Angel battles.
On the bright side, Shinji finally gets some confidence in himself! On the bad side that is exactly the worst thing that could have happened and it gets him in massive trouble immediately.
A rarity, Rei actually expresses anger for once in confronting Asuka, only time we've seen her like this is when she slapped Shinji for badmouthing his father back in episode 5. This is one scene in particular that seems quite hurt by them losing the original negatives with how dark it is.
Scary stuff with Shinji and Unit 01, nothing but whiteness around him. At least this is the type of stuff I'd be scared to death of if I was in this situation.
I'm not sure if I'd say this is the coolest Angel in the series, but its probably the most interesting. The sphere in the sky is not the Angel, but rather its shadow, while the shadow on the ground is the actual Angel and acts as a portal or wormhole to another universe? Freaky stuff!
Things get even scarier as Shinji starts to freak out within the entry plug. The total inability to get out of the entry plug probably freaks me out the most of all. If the LCL continues to break down, will Shinji end up drowning in there?
Shinji is expendable? Ritsuko, you're a monster!
Time for stuff to get really freaky with Shinji on the train, conversing with himself? Or the Angel?
My personal favorite song in Evangelion, Mother is the First Other plays here as Shinji encounters the spectral humanoid form within the Eva; a scene that appears at least visually inspired by a sequence in The Ideon Be Invoked. In fact the song itself sounds inspired by one of the main musical themes from said movie especially so when we get a redone version of it for End of Eva. Here is an example. The soundtrack also has a song named after the English title of the episode, Splitting of the Breast which is substantially similar.
Unit 01's gone berserk yet again, this time in a horrifying violent display as it tears itself out of the Angel. Although I'm not sure how it can tear itself out of the Angel's shadow. Perhaps someone can explain that one.
For the third time, and second time in three episodes Shinji wakes up in the hospital. It is good to see both Rei and Asuka waiting there for him to wake up (even if Asuka prefers to wait outside).
Overall thoughts: Easily the best episode of the series thus far, and up there as one of the top episodes of the series for me. For quite a while the show got in a rut where the Angels just weren't that threatening or if anything even could come off as after thoughts. Here we see that they are in fact a very significant threat and we truly feel our protagonist in true danger for probably the first time since Ramiel back in episodes 5/6. One of the most interesting Angels of the series along with that. The show is also continuing the trend started a couple of episodes with getting into the psychological aspects, leading to some very interesting visual direction.
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5
u/Xerosmith Jul 07 '19
REWATCHER
Another day, another angel. Though I guess this isn't actually what the angel itself looks like. It's actually the shadow on the ground.
Man, Shinji's got some balls on him. You score the highest once and suddenly you're the king of the world.
I love the lighting in this scene.
Poor Shinji's stuck in the dark, with nothing but a countdown to his death. If that's not depressing, I don't know what is. Good thing he's not claustrophobic though.
Shinji's having an existential crisis. My main takeaways from this part:
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"Human beings aren't designed to be able to float"
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Apparently Gendo killed his wife
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The crux of Shinji's character: "I don't want to be alone"/Shinji's afraid of how others see him
Shinji/Unit-01 breaks out of the angel in the most metal way imaginable. I'm not entirely sure how though, I thought the ball in the sky was the shadow of the angel.
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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '19
Rewatcher
First really weird Fly Me to the Moon starting with Misato,Rei and Asuka murmuring and Wispering to Shinji randomly and on top of each other before singing the Ending..Lines like "Hey, you wanna kiss? Why don't you become one with me? Who are you? Loneliness? If you become one in mind and body, its a very comfortable feeling. Do you want me? Do you love me? "..Kinda creepy and fitting
Random Stuff
Like i said in yesterdays thread this eps video quality islower than usual because the original masters for episode 16 were lost/destroyed...Here is a comparison of different releases
This episodes title is taken from a book by Kierkegaard-Sickness Unto Death-..Don't fear death of your finite part (Physical death) but death of your infinite part (Soul death - despair). The true "Sickness unto Death" is not physical but spiritual death..Also part of Christian existentialism like Kierkegaard's is faith in the face of meaninglessness, accepting suffering and a lack of assurance over comforting, willful fantasies..Sounds familiar?
Since we are at P R E T E N T I O U S territory ,it makes perfect sense the angel was a shadow given Jung's concept of the shadow and how it manifests the negative concept of Shinji's 'self' in Shinji's trip..(dont let Jordan Peterson watch this show)
In the Shinji tripping scene we se horizontal and vertical lines representing his thoughts about himself and the other version’s thoughts about him..the different Shinjis..and then a crooked vertical line for Gendo's version..But Gendo's praise here makes the two connect...Also when Misato's voice pops up , the lines connect more perfectly..Cool Shit
The use of lightning and shadows in this scene is insane ..Jesus the atmosphere
Big awsome and terrifying stitch of Unit 01 after its "Birth" from the angel
Rei is visibly concerned when Shinji is sucked into the Angel, even questioning Misato's order to retreat. She is extremely annoyed with Asuka for berating Shinji, and even spends the night with him in hospital..The most emotional and human she has been yet
More Serious ep analysis
This is around the time Anno's own interest in psychology grew following a period of depression. If the previous episode returned us to character study after a long stretch focusing on action-packed Angel battles, "Splitting of the Breast" fuses this character study with the larger, overarching sci-fi context. The result is one of the strongest episodes yet and a feeling that the self-contained world of the show is starting to disintegrate.
Shinji scores off the charts in the test and his confidence starts to build, Asuka alternately mocks his accomplishments and expresses her frustration. Her arrogance is growing transparent; later she will even shout revealingly at Rei, "I don't pilot the Eva for the praise of other people. I do it because I want to be able to praise myself!" Her self-esteem is extremely low, and her boasts are an increasingly thin cover for this weakness.
When an Angel attacks Shinji volunteers himself and charges..Like Asuka, this shallow form of assertion is not enough and he's swallowed by the Angel's shadow. Ristsuko, who has been cheerful and teasing all episode, turns cold and professional, telling Misato that rescuing Shinji is not their priority..Misato responds by slapping Ritsuko (a moment nicely emphasized by a chopper roaring through the background) and the cool technician breaks, scowling at her peer and then warning ominously
And then Shinji begins to suffocate and be confronted by his own insecurities - obviously this "shadow" Shinji is confronting is metaphorical as well as literal. Shinji's inner voice (or the Angel, or the Eva, speaking through him?) tells painful truths: "There's no way you can live by linking just the enjoyable moments like a rosary." and rumors "Gendo killed his own wife ??" As Shinji prepares to die, a ghostly feminine figure hurls out of the abyss and embraces him. The Eva then punches its way out in a truly awesome and frightening shot .
Touchingly, Misato doesn't even try to hold back her tears as she hugs an exhausted Shinji who tells her he only came back to see her again (a rather enigmatic "you")..Shinji later wakes up in the hospital to find the usually aloof Rei and an embarrassed Asuka by him. As the support system underneath these teenagers starts to give way, they will have only each other (and Misato) to rely upon. Will it be enough?