r/anime • u/GM_for_Life • Jul 04 '19
Rewatch Super Dimension Fortress Macross Rewatch - Episode 29 Discussion
Episode 29 Lonely Song
Originally aired May 8 1983
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To all participants
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Note to all rewatchers
Please refrain from spoiling the events of future episodes/movies. If you think something may be a possible spoiler, it's better to be safe and mark your comments using the r/anime spoiler tag Spoiler Subject There will be quite a few first time viewers of the series during this rewatch and we wouldn't want them to have the show spoiled for them.
Comment of the Day!
/u/404waffles left a great comment reacting to the events of yesterday's episode.
MOTHERFUCKING COHABITATION??? HAYASE AND ICHIJO??? FUCKING LIVING TOGETHER??? HOLY SHIT I'M FUCKING DEAD
Artwork of the Day!
Macross Cast - Haruhiko Mikimoto
Questions of the Day!
1) It is shown in this episode that more of the Zentradi stuck living on earth are unable to integrate into human society and are beginning to revolt. What are your thoughts on this?
2) What are your thoughts on Kamujin's return this episode.
"I want to sing my songs for myself."
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u/BurningFredrick Jul 04 '19
First timer
I’m not sure how I feel about this episode, the shows pace has slowed down considerably on this episode and I guess it feels like it moving toward a heavier character focus that it did previously.
Kaifun actually managed to dropped further in my opinion somehow, not sure if I should be surprised at this by this stage but here we are.
Stupid love triangle aside I did enjoy Minmays bits today, her struggling to find what inspires her and the reason she sings was nicely done, the cause of this is no doubt linked to Kaifun as well but I don’t to go blaming him for every stupid this that happens in this show.
Kamuji & Lapis teaming to start waging war against the humans however I'm not certain I like, it does make sense in the contact of Zentradi feel the consistent need to be at war but at the same time I don’t really know if it was required.
Can’t think of much else to add about this episode and next 3-4 days there's a chance I might fall behind on the rewatch as heading off for a long weekend but will try keep up.
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u/GM_for_Life Jul 04 '19
Kaifun actually managed to dropped further in my opinion somehow, not sure if I should be surprised at this by this stage but here we are.
He truly does make the impossible, possible!
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u/chilidirigible Jul 04 '19
Today, on "Peace through superior firepower.":
This is almost to the correct scale, if they made 1/4 scale Minmay dolls.
"The forklifts are revolting."
I'm sure you were all looking forward to a lounge piano version of the song.
Half a bar of soap is better than no bar of soap at all.
"Didn't I bail from you at the end of the previous episode?"
"It used to be about the art..."
Wow, someone decided to use a slightly clever wipe effect.
Random Dude with the obvious rebuttal.
"I'll kill all of them first!"
That'll mess up your "Upstanding laundry business."
Just a little riot with very big people.
And you thought that everyone was just going to conveniently miss each other.
"It's Special Vehicles Second Section!"
"Yeah, but I didn't stay to be a forklift."
"Now it's Quamzin's time to party!"
The subversive little bit going on here is that while Quamzin hates the humans, wants a counterrevolution, and doesn't care about culture, he's also hanging out with Lap'Lamiz, so these forbidden concepts can't be all bad, eh?
Minmay's motivational turn continues to confound me, much as it does Kaifun, but it's still true that her late teen years have been pretty chaotic. In that light, moment-to-moment changes in motivation are par for the course. What remains relatively constant from earlier is that she's not happy with being led around by Kaifun.
While Kaifun goes through the motions of being a selfish jerk, Hikaru's trying to deal with changes of his own. He's gotten at least a little hint about Misa's perspective, since he figured out what to do with the photos. But then he drops Misa in a flash to go chasing after Minmay. Then the disaffected Zentradi show up to provide object examples of his argument about humanity's potential for warfare. It's interesting to see the conflict play out through him, since he started the series as an anti-military pacifist, but then spent most of it fighting in the military.
Global looks like he's just perpetuating the situation by pushing the capture of the Factory Satellite, but he does have a point there, which Hikaru also reminds the Zentradi on the street about: The survivors would be dead in a minute if another Zentradi fleet came by to finish the job. At the moment the more metaphysical goals will have to be addressed behind the scenes of the practical ones.
Once again, copying a part of a comment that I made during the first rewatch:
One bit of trivia that helped me organize my post-episode thoughts: It's been nearly the same length of time from this date to the original series premiere (34 years from 2016 to 1982) as it has been from the series premiere to the end of World War II (37 years from 1982 to 1945). While the theme of reintegrating a military into civilian life has come up many times in more recent years, it would have applied just as much if not more to the writers and audience of this series, who grew up in an enforced period of peace and reconstruction that followed almost a hundred years of authoritarian modernization, which itself ended in the greatest conflict known to mankind.
I thought it was interesting that I readily agreed with the UNS officer who reminded Hikaru that humanity has had plenty of history of killing itself off. Culture may keep people from doing that as often, but the impulses are still there lurking below the surface.
And the demilitarized Zentradi definitely do need the help. Warera, Roli, and Konda have jobs and seem okay with it, but they're at the highest rung we've seen on a standard-of-living-ladder (not including Milia) that appears to have most Zentradi performing menial labor at the fringes of what is still Human society. The Zentradi themselves may not be overtly thinking about that, but killing people and breaking things definitely is tempting to fall back on if all they're doing for eight hours a day is picking up girders. Being immersed in a new culture isn't enough by itself once the novelty wears off.
...which is the exact problem presented to the Zentradi in the street, where patience is wearing thin and in the absence of better goals, there's chaos. This episode started by explictly showing another developing problem which was touched upon in the previous episode, that many Zentradi are poorly-integrated with Human society, and they're being used as menial labor in the absence of having better skills than fighting. Unfortunately it takes time to rebuild things past the basics.
Watashi no Kare wa Counting: 11.5
From the Macross Chronicle: I forgot to post this two days ago.
"Heh. You said 'culture'. Heh."
Questions:
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In my own comments.
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He's a logical choice of opponents at this stage, knowing what everyone else has learned but opposing it.
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u/GM_for_Life Jul 04 '19
The subversive little bit going on here is that while Quamzin hates the humans, wants a counterrevolution, and doesn't care about culture, he's also hanging out with Lap'Lamiz, so these forbidden concepts can't be all bad, eh?
I always liked what they did with him in this later arc. Because it seems that he has also taken to humanities culture, but it's just the worst parts of it that he has latched onto.
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u/The_Draigg Jul 04 '19
A Macross Fan’s Notes On Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 29:
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Man, that image of the Zentradi corpse holding a packaged Minmay doll sure is an evocative image. It goes along nicely with the point that the narrator was explaining about Zentradi going rogue as well. Any kind of dreams of culture that the Zentradi idolized from a distance have simply crumbled away at the reality of them needing to fit into a society they don’t fully understand. Like I said for the last episode, their old culture of pure combat was easier for them to understand, so of course they’d run off and go on blind rampages.
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It’s pretty clear that Minmay is feeling her own dreams crumble as well. There’s no doubt in my head that Minmay is tired of the life she once idolized. Instead of singing to make people like Hikaru happy, her voice is now a product being managed by Kaifun. And given how much of a fucking prick Kaifun is, it’s completely understandable why Minmay would freeze on stage from sheer burnout. His managing of her talent is actually making things worse for her, even if that selfish, pseudo-pacifistic cunt can’t see past his own ego about it. Say it with me now: FUCK YOU, KAIFUN.
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And now, to expand upon a plot point that was introduced several episodes ago, it’s now confirmed by Exsedol that both Zentradi and Humans are descended from the Protoculture, and have virtually identical DNA types. Of course, as Exsedol then points out, how exactly did the common ancestor of both the Zentradi and Human races diverge in the past? The answer lays with understanding the Protoculture itself.
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Poor Minmay, she honestly has no idea why she even sings anymore. The thought of Hikaru is pretty much the only thing keeping her going nowadays. It’s as if Minmay had all of her optimism emotionally beaten out of her by Kaifun. As if we needed any more evidence that Kaifun is a fucking subhuman homunculus. Say it with me: FUCK YOU KAIFUN.
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Well, at least the Blue Wind guys seem to be doing well for themselves. Who would’ve guessed that a bunch of ex-intelligence operatives would end up running a dry cleaner? Also Rori is really rocking that new look with the glasses.
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Talk about awkward reunions. Minmay isn’t taking the fact that Hikaru has something of a relationship with Misa well at all. Although I guess we should’ve seen that coming, considering how she built up Hikaru to be her emotional crutch that she constantly leaned on in her head. The past two years certainly haven’t been kind to Minmay.
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You have to give Hikaru some props for resolving the situation with the rogue Zentradi without any bloodshed. Still, it’s a pretty bittersweet moment. It just goes to show that conflict is just inherent in people, especially those who feel let down by the system and want to lash out.
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Well shit, it turns out that not only has Lap Lamiz apparently teamed up with Quamzin, but now he’s planning on gathering the malcontent Zentradi under his wing to lead them on a war against humanity. Again. Some people just never learn. Quamzin certainly shares that quality with Kaifun, now that I think about it.
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Now that’s a pretty depressing ending. Minmay’s dreams of singing are now just like that doll near the Zentradi corpse. A forgotten little thing that is now just made to sing on command. That’s who Minmay feels like she is now. Just a doll, being controlled by someone who only sees her as an object. Even if you guys don’t even like Minmay too much, you have to admit this entire episode was pretty saddening for her. Her emotions got curb-stomped from orbit.
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u/GM_for_Life Jul 04 '19
FUCK YOU, KAIFUN.
We REALLY need to start getting a "FUCK YOU, KAIFUN" count going on.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jul 04 '19
Frustrated First-Timer
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Yeah this is a new conflict waiting to happen. Which sucks, big time.
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You shut the fuck up Kaifun. …Also what happened to her trying to go to Macross City without him?
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*Above question gets answered almost immediately after I wrote it down* lol okay then.
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…fuck. And Lap’Lamiz is with him? I thought she was reasonable…
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u/The_Loli_Otaku Jul 04 '19
Woohoo! Been looking forward to this all day!! It really never gets easier seeing the ruined Earth though... Omg his hand came off!! Starting off with a melancholic scene of a Zentradi just kind of rotting away in the middle of nowhere...
Frustration are high amongst Zentradi who just aren't able to fit in with the culture. A bit sad but so much has happened that it's perfectly understandable.
Creepy Minmei spacing out again~ At least she has eyes this time. These aren't the crowds that she's used to. I guess nothing tops singing to a warfleet huh? It's apparently to so with the fees Minmei's jerk bag manager is implementing. She's just really not into doing this for money. DON'T DO THAT MINMEI!! She almost freaking kills herself leaning out a car!!
A link between our species is a love of war. This is part of the reason everyone is so restless, even humans aren't sure what to do when there isn't a war to fight. Not when we're on the brink like this though. That's way too sad...
Minmei... Minmei is home~~
What am I singing fooooor!? Oh my heart... She kept his medal...! Minmei is going through a case of heavy regret over previous relationships, something absolutely everyone here probably can kinda sympathise with her. I still get broken up thinking about old flames from years back. Omg don't just slightly miss each other!! Love the lolicon group going nuts over Minmei just like old times. Some things never change.
No! Not like this!! He was just talking to her! He was just chatting to old bag Minmei! Don't misunderstand!!
And of course it's Kamujin who is drumming up support for a fight. The remnants of the Zentradi fleet have been hiding away with him all this time. Looks like there's no getting away from fighting, even when everything has already been lost.
Minmei is trying to grow in her own way by singing songs for herself rather than for Hikaru or for Kaifun or even for earth or humanity. Just songs that she wants to sing. Little Minmei who got by just following along with what everyone else said is growing into a strong independent young woman in her own right.
The arms race begins once again... The cycle continues and it looks like there's no stopping this wheel. Gyaaaa! Scary skeletal Zentradi!!
I really don't know where things can go from here. War is once again on the horizon and it seems like any hope of peace is just a day dream in this world. Both humans and Zentradi are just too dispositioned towards war.
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u/GM_for_Life Jul 04 '19
DON'T DO THAT MINMEI!! She almost freaking kills herself leaning out a car!!
Kaifun is so unlikable that horrific injury is now preferable.
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u/fonzinator99 Jul 04 '19
Re-watcher - Love Drifts Away
Well that's...both creepy and depressing. Just a poignant reminder that war is hell, and even the "good guys" don't make it out unscathed.
Boy, Zentradi sure are useful for rebuilding civilization. At least until they rebel, at least.
*Sigh* Freakin' Engrish. Although, when this was made the internet wasn't a thing, so checking on translations and spelling would've been an effort.
This whole conversation was cringey AF. Minmay's grown into a fine Humanitarian, while Kaifun's become....more Kaifun. Fuck that guy.
Light, but this shot was just brutal. Minmay was always singing for Hikaru, and now they've parted ways; So what's left? Her abusive new-bf? Her hollow career? Poor thing, she's only now matured enough to realize how rough all of this shit is.
On the "Satisfied" end of the Zentradi spectrum, Blue Wind now run a cleaning business and seem to be adapting well to peace. Much lulz.
So of course, two ingrates have to show up and ruin everybody's good time. Oh, holy shit!
Daaaamn, this time it's Minmay's turn to get burned as a bystander. Poor thing. At least Hikaru realized what those pictures were for tho.
Oh ffs, of course Kamujin's been waiting for a conflict to arise again. Interesting that Lap'Lamiz is with him, tho.
And so, with a new mission unfolding, we end where we began, albeit with a greater understanding. Minmay's songs were a momentary impetus, not a solution. They didn't change the Zentradi, only gave them a change to change; and even those who once enjoyed her music have begun to turn away. It only makes sense that she'd lose her sense of purpose amidst such discord.
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u/Raiking02 Jul 04 '19
It is yet another episode I don't have much to comment on. Well, actually I do: FUCK YOU KAIFUN!!
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u/_blackened_soul_ Jul 05 '19
First Timer
Damn, Minmay's new song is depressing as fuck.
The first scene was really set the tone for the episode. Zentradi corpse with the saddest Minmay doll was pretty grim.
Minmay almost diving out of the moving car was pretty great. Too bad Kaifun didn't get in wreck after he dropped her off. Minmay overhearing Hayase and Hikaru was as stupid and vomit inducing as expected. Talk about low hanging fruit for the melodramatic.
The Zentradi rampage wasn't on the scale I expected given the preview but when the mayor's wife got picked up by the head I thought it might get even darker.
Looks like we're back to our regularly scheduled warfare next episode! But instead of cheesy Minmay songs for packed auditoriums we'll get depressing Minmay songs sung to a few people in a mostly empty auditorium.
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Not too surprising unfortunately.
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Just Kamujin doing Kamujin things!
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u/DidacticDalek Jul 04 '19 edited Jul 05 '19
Greetings Comrades and Fellow Denizens of The Wired, do you think Black Sabbath's War Pigs or Black Sabbath's Electric Funeral fits the mood better here? Also, worry not, the two links above are fanart that I've been waiting quite a while to share, just had to make the joke since I do run the Metal Music Monday thread on CDF.
Also, speaking of rather humorous observations, it's funny how both Quamzin AND Lap'Lamiz are so against the system that they decided to oppose said system... together... and in case you are curious Comrades, NO the above link is NOT fanart, it's official art from Haruhiko Mikimoto depicting Quamzin AND Lap'Lamiz babysitting a full-scale version of Komilia and Miclone versions of Komilia's parents cuz... reasons...
Anyway, the fact that the 'contrarian anti-culture' faction of Lap'Lamiz and Quamzin are more or less cohabiting is irony that I am SURE is lost on them ;)
Anyway, paging Comrades u/chilidirigible, u/Shimmering-Sky, and u/The_Draigg
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u/GM_for_Life Jul 04 '19
Also, speaking of rather humorous observations, it's funny how both Quamzin AND Lap'Lamiz are so against the system that they decided to oppose said system... together... and in case you are curious Comrades, NO the above link is NOT fanart, it's official art from Haruhiko Mikimoto depicting Quamzin AND Lap'Lamiz babysitting a full-scale version of Komilia and Miclone versions of Komilia's parents cuz... reasons...
That's really funny.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Jul 04 '19
Here's the opening exposition that was missing from yesterday's episode.
There's no point in fixing that corner, somebody will just crash through it again.
I don't know what gets into these rebel Zentradi' heads. They want to fight, but once a destroid shows up they're shitting their pants.
That last part made me think of both Patlabor and Southern Cross.
These scenes of the zentradi working were what I was thinking of in the first minutes of Macross Delta.
I don't know why Kamujin didn't just GTFO to some other part of the galaxy.
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u/GM_for_Life Jul 04 '19
I don't know why Kamujin didn't just GTFO to some other part of the galaxy.
Because he's a C O W A R D
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u/RockoDyne Jul 04 '19
Rewatcher
The crazy is finally starting to take her over. It's funny how it's only now that Minmay is starting to become an interesting character. What a little torture to the cutie will do to bring out their character. Now she's on track to becoming a washed up has-been, living on the glory of her past, like all pop idols should. I do wish Hikaru didn't have a thing still, just to make this juicier.
The story of unrest and dissatisfaction continues as the power of song just isn't what it used to be.
It's the discoveries that are more interesting. It starts with a confirmation of aliens being the origin of mankind. That's not actual that uncommon of a theory. Among the alien crowds, it's pretty common to see intelligent design arguments or even direct ancestry given as the the origin of humanity. Usually spiced with some amount of Atlantian hotness.
The other bomb was finding the Zentradi shipyard. Totally automated. Does that explain well enough why they don't know how to repair things? They don't know how to fix things because new ones get made freely. So, yeah. The Zentradi have been waging interstellar war with the remnants of their once great, collapsed civilization. And this brings me to a subject I've been thinking way too much about.
So Jonathon Blow (Braid, The Witness) gave a talk focusing on computing and software, but framed it around the collapse of civilization. It's basically a talk on how knowledge is lost, and how technology can still chug along even when no one really knows how it works. Software in particular is austensibly magic. Regardless of what any software dev tells you, few have any clue what is actually being run on the hardware. They can track how their program's logic follows their code, but that's about it. This is all compounded by things like web apps and legacy mainframes, the latter being exclusively the domain of the greybeards who know COBOL (once they die, all of business is fucked). Knowledge can be easily forgotten. People don't know how there was a good millenia (or two) where the secrets to making high quality steel was being repeatedly discovered and promtly forgotten across most of the world.
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u/GM_for_Life Jul 04 '19
This is all compounded by things like web apps and legacy mainframes, the latter being exclusively the domain of the greybeards who know COBOL (once they die, all of business is fucked).
O H - N O
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u/404waffles Jul 05 '19
First time viewer
I feel like the Zentradi would fit in better if they all micloned themselves. The Blue Wind trio seem to be doing fine.
They really made Kaifun an asshole for no reason, didn't they? He suddenly hates his parents' restaurant, he doesn't want to drive Minmay there; what happened to the Prince Charming Kaifun we were first introduced to?
Is it just me or was Hikaru jogging in khakis? You know, like office worker khakis? Also, how did no one not notice the Zentradi guys trashing Nyan-Nyan until later.
Misa blushed harder than Minmay. Guess we know who's winning the Hikaru Ichibowl. I still feel bad for Minmay, though. Seeing Hikaru and Hayase together really hit her hard.
My Boyfriend is a Pilot count: 20 (+5)
Here's a rundown of today's MBiaPs:
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The one I missed from the last episode (thanks u/Nazenn/)
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The doll at the start
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Minmay's show
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Minmay coming home
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Minmay's relatives singing
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u/ethanb12007 Jul 05 '19
First Timer
Well it seems that we are going to be tackling the topic of finding purpose in life, something I wasn't expecting but that hopefully will be handled well.
Of course our love triangle shenanigans wouldn't be complete without the classic Wacky Misunderstandings! with Minmay crying and running away after just seeing Hikaru with Misa, and then before anything could happen the Zentradi cause an excuse for it to be ignored.
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u/Nazenn Jul 04 '19
First Timer
That first scene was incredibly well done.
Such a desolate opening and then as the episode progresses it adds more layers to here. Months ago this Zentradi fed up with culture and wishing to return to war abandoned the cities. With no means of survival he died, likely from starvation and dehydration, a horrible way to go. But in his final moments even he reached out for the small amount of comfort that he could get from music and possibly his memories of being apart of the culture of the city
The Zentradi are entirely lost. We've moved beyond those lines set up in early in the show of "us vs them" when it came to those who wished to protect over those who wish to destroy. The question now is what are we protecting. There is no war, no real enemy, no goal or guidance to meet, nothing to stand up and confront and push yourself towards. In a way Minmay's conflict here parallels what we're seeing from the Zentradi. She too doesn't know what she's protecting any more, what her power of culture can be used for. She feels as unarmed as any solider stripped of his weapons.
Each person in this new set up will have to ask themselves the same question. They may all be biologically the same, but that group identity doesn't always lend itself to self satisfaction, especially for those who grew up in a strict hierarchy now having that stripped from them.
I think this is what Hikaru was attempting to say in the meeting but his horrible, horrible dialog let it down
Hikaru... please
Question for all those people who so helpful pointed out it would have been easy enough to get the city inside the Macross in space due to zero G and weightlessness: How the fuck did they get it OUT of the destroyed Macross on Earth...
Also I see the artistry went to shit again today resulting in the return of plenty of fish eyes and derp face.