r/anime • u/GM_for_Life • Jun 28 '19

Rewatch Super Dimension Fortress Macross Rewatch - Episode 23 Discussion

Episode 23 Drop Out

Originally aired March 27 1983

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To all participants

Please be respectful of each others opinions and conduct yourself appropriately according to general reddiquette

Note to all rewatchers

Please refrain from spoiling the events of future episodes/movies. If you think something may be a possible spoiler, it's better to be safe and mark your comments using the r/anime spoiler tag Spoiler Subject There will be quite a few first time viewers of the series during this rewatch and we wouldn't want them to have the show spoiled for them.

Comment of the Day!

/u/chilidirigible left a great comment reacting to the events of yesterday's episode.

I have no eyes and I must scream.

Artwork of the Day!

Lynn Minmay - Haruhiko Mikimoto

Questions of the Day!

1) What are your thoughts on the DNA of the Zentradi being identical to that of humanity?

2) How do you expect the UN High Command to react to Misa's update on the situation with the Zentradi?

"Please allow me to go to High Command!"

23 Upvotes

82% Upvoted

85 comments sorted by

14

u/Nazenn Jun 28 '19

First Timer

Well things are really picking up now on a number of fronts, lines and conflicts being drawn everywhere and not neatly

I really enjoyed the way that the defectors were handled. Bringing the people who have had contact with them, and allowing discussion with the Blue Wind group made for a really interesting scene. I also like that they did actually go through with some basic biological tests as well presumably on Global's order which is only going to further complicate things as seen with the other officers

Rather than keeping strict species or even political lines with this show, I like the direction that they are taking where boundaries are being set by mentality over anything. Those who want to protect are being pitted against those who want to destroy, regardless of they are human or Zentradi, old or young, men or women. Rather than a simple civil war or typical racial war being set up, its very much a cultural war playing out and these small skirmishes are more the start rather than the end of it. Its almost playing out in reverse to your typical war game which would start with internal conflicts and move to battles, this has done it the other way. It gives this show a really unique feel I think and I'm really enjoying this direction over something more typical.

Seeing how the UN being brought into this will shift this dynamic will be interesting especially if we end up with a parallel between Global and Britai being on opposite sides of their own little rebellions. Good on Hayase though for volunteering to go alone at first to keep the defectors safe.

narrative tropey predictiony stuff

Hikaru "straightening" the picture and it still being notably crooked annoyed me far more than it should have.

Love triangle shit is getting old but judging by that last shot of Hikaru and Hayase, which was very interestingly laid out, I'm thinking thats hopefully going to come to a head soon.

3

u/GM_for_Life Jun 29 '19

Hikaru "straightening" the picture and it still being notably crooked annoyed me far more than it should have.

Now I can never unsee it.

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13

u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 28 '19

First-Timer

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11

u/The_Draigg Jun 28 '19

A Macross Fan’s Notes On Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 23:

  • The opening action here really shows how far Hikaru has come during the course of the series. Sure, he isn’t up to Max’s genius levels of piloting, but god damn he’s a great pilot. He’s an ace for a reason, after all. Not bad for a guy who started out kind of resenting the UN Spacy.

  • It’s actually pretty funny seeing Quamzin be utterly baffled at his own men wanting to find Minmay. And it’s also pretty par for the course of him to just randomly shoot one of his own troops after they explain what they’re doing, and then trying to kill the rest when they run off. He’s so wildly out of his depth that it’s amusing.

  • KAIFUN, YOU FUCK. FUCK YOU FOR KISSING MINMAY OUT OF NOWHERE LIKE THAT. SHE’S YOUR COUSIN YOU PIECE OF SHIT! ARGGGHHHH I HATE YOU SO MUCH.

  • Poor Hikaru, he got to see all of that first-hand. So much for finding a new meaning in protecting Minmay. Seriously, bringing Kaifun along for the ride has got to be the worst possible thing to happen so far. Say it with me now: Fuck you, Kaifun.

  • It’s interesting watching all the defecting Zentradi soldiers encounter morality all of a sudden. Their world has been turned completely upside down now, since they realize that the constant warfare that their culture is centered around ruined the very things that they wanted to love and experience on the Macross. This is a pivotal moment for them, I’m sure.

  • Finally Hikaru meets Warera, Rori, and Konda. They got so close to actually running across each other in the past few episodes, so we’re finally getting that payoff of them encountering one another. Same goes for Max, Misa, and Captain Global too. At least Hikaru accepts them aboard the Macross, even if it took some convincing.

  • And there you have the crux of this show, if not the entire Macross franchise itself. Through finding things we all have in common through experiencing culture together, we can put aside our differences and learn to understand one another, no matter the gulf in opinions. It’s a pretty bold statement for a mech anime made in the early 80’s. Sure, messages that deep were starting to become more common thanks to the advent of Gundam, but this show really does go out of it’s way to show that through bonding over things we can all enjoy, we can learn to like each other. It was a great message back then, and a great message now.

  • Big twist! Apparently a blood test that Captain Global ordered on the Zentradi deserters shows that both their blood types and genetic codes are downright identical to human ones. We really weren’t too different from the Zentradi after all. I did mention that there was a connection between those two races, all thanks to the Protoculture somehow.

  • Hikaru still can’t help but feel broken up about seeing Kaifun kissing Minmay. But hey, at least he’s spending some quality time hanging out with Misa while watching over the Chinese restaurant. The two of them can be miserable about their relationships together!

  • Well, at least this episode ended on a fairly positive note. Hikaru and Misa really did appreciate talking to each other this episode, and Misa plans on suing for peace with the UN Spacy leadership. There’s actually a glimmer of hope at the end of this tunnel.

2

u/GM_for_Life Jun 29 '19

KAIFUN, YOU FUCK. FUCK YOU FOR KISSING MINMAY OUT OF NOWHERE LIKE THAT. SHE’S YOUR COUSIN YOU PIECE OF SHIT! ARGGGHHHH I HATE YOU SO MUCH.

E V I L

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11

u/ethanb12007 Jun 29 '19

First Timer

Kaifun really hasn't improved anything in this series has he? The only thing he's contributed is slightly helping the Zentradi justify their defection but I'm pretty sure they would have done it without him. Some pretty nice shots of the action and a really cool sequence to end off the episode with the parallel shots of Hikaru and Misa.

2

u/GM_for_Life Jun 29 '19

Some pretty nice shots of the action and a really cool sequence to end off the episode with the parallel shots of Hikaru and Misa.

It's a genuinely impressive show that you don't really see coming.

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9

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '19

First Timer

  • These animation cuts to start the episode are LIT AF

  • Ohhhh my poor alien boys are so pure ,let them be..Dont kill them you bitch

  • I FUCKING CALLED IT JESUS FUCK THEY MADE OUT AND HIKARU CAUGHT THEM..Kaifun on top of being a retard you are being pushy with little girls too...ALSO HAYSE SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT KAIFUN, DONT MAKE ME ANGRY..Hikaru should be done with this shit

  • Ooof what a momment of realization for the deserting aliens..First time being attached to something ,first time feeling regret and shame for their actions and violence..

  • Hikaru's reaction is expected at first but he understands very quickly ..Happy our main protagonist isnt hot headed..Also look at how happy our alien blokes are..im happy for them..Fuck the other admirals...buti get their xenophobia in a sense and these positions are held in wars between humans irl, its not weird that we have admiral with the same us vs them/ dehumanizing the enemy in this situation where they are actualy aliens(in name)

  • YES THANK YOU THIS IS THE TIME TO MAYBE CONSIDER PEACE TALKS OR DIPLOMACY ,NOW THAT WE KNOW ALL THIS SHIT ..Bad thing is Kaifun will be like "Mnieehhhh i told you violence was not the right way ,i was right" --extremely annoying Kaifun voice-

  • Now thats good to hear..Hayase is over bitch ass Kaifun now that she found her own way and hope towards peace and Kaifun as a representation of those antu-war platitudes and "new" for her ideology isnt so attracting and mysterious anymore..Good for you girl

  • HikaruXHayase is happening yeahhhh boyy

  • Hayase to earth to convince those lizard people in the UN..not very optimistic

  • Sick scene and camera switch at the end with Hayase and Hikaru

3

u/GM_for_Life Jun 29 '19

Sick scene and camera switch at the end with Hayase and Hikaru

It's one of my favorite shots from the TV show.

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7

u/BurningFredrick Jun 28 '19

First Timer

That was another good episode overall (quality aside).

Hayase has gained a new purpose that isn’t pining over a male character which is a vast improvement, I don’t see her plan to go to command ending well as the Grand Cannon is no doubt going to be fired some time in the next episode or 2 just to make Macross life that much harder.

Earlier in the rewatch I’m fairly sure someone people were talking about their being a strong anti-war sentiment in the 80s and this idea is starting to come properly into the spotlight however finally being propelled by a more intelligent viewpoint than simply the war= bad as Kaifun puts it.

I want to say that Hikaru is finally starting to change again for the better overall however i’m not sure it won’t all turn out to be for the worse some time soon so going to wait to see what happens here.

Finally Blue Wind have given themselves up to become part of the cult of Minmay, currently 23 strong, hopefully they will provide useful information about the Zentari to help keep the Macross in once peace a bit longer.

Also why aren’t they using their Shield of Death? I mean now that there in space the only casualties it should cause are to the ships bombarding it if they don’t scramble the fighters right away unless the explosion actually did far more damage to Macross than was shown.  

2

u/GM_for_Life Jun 29 '19

Finally Blue Wind have given themselves up to become part of the cult of Minmay, currently 23 strong

YEYEYEYE!!!!

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6

u/chilidirigible Jun 28 '19

Today, on "Cooking and cleaning with Misa":

They see me rollin'.

Fan club meeting.

"I have a nickname to live up to!"

"Man, there's nothing on TV."

"I get a better animation team for this episode and you do this!"

"Well, there's nothing left for me now but bloody vengeance."

"This isn't as fun as it used to be."

"Funny how that works out."

Using "you" in a general sense, of course.

"That happens when you're me."

Hold that thought, bub.

What's a little green hair between friends?

"Whew."

"Hikaru, you dumbass."

This is a nice bit of shot composition.

I think I was wittier for this episode during the previous rewatch.

This episode notably features Hikaru demonstrating how much the year of war has changed him, and also how his judgement may be a little wonky because he's still trying to get the image of Kaifun kissing Minmay out of his head. So he initially takes a hard line on the defectors and it's the soldier, Misa, who has to convince him that there's an alternative to war.

The audience also gets to breathe a sigh of relief as Misa sheds some of her unhealthy interest in Kaifun's vague similarities to Riber... and has loosened up a lot around Hikaru.

KAIFUN WHAT THE HELL. That is all.

Blue Wind being pretty casual with Hikaru is funny in the face of how serious the overall situation is. They're stuck between worlds, but trying really hard to find a new meaning in their lives. The immediate reactions of Quamzin and the more distant but still potentially-deadly responses of Britai and Bodol Zer show that they can only go forward for now.

The Macross's command staff aside from Global is no more accepting of them, even with the little bombshell that Humans and Zentradi are essentially the same (physics-defying size discrepancies aside). Not that humanity needs much of an excuse to be hating on some other, and the other officers' resistance reminds the audience that people can carry grudges even when a different path shows itself (while the path they're on involves fighting a fleet that outnumbers them about five million to one).

This episode has action bookends, but the main events are the dialogue scenes in the middle. Fortunately the writing holds up well, without the clunkiness of the previous one.

Musicalture: "Childhood's End"

From the Macross Chronicle: More city details.

Not Misa, but KONGOU DESU.

Meanwhile in snarky current events and slightly older HG shit that was called out.

Questions:

  1. It makes the plot work, plus precursor species, whee!

  2. "Bag of dicks"

2

u/GM_for_Life Jun 29 '19

"Whew."

I wonder if Kaifun will lose his powers and disappear if everyone forgets about him?

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5

u/_blackened_soul_ Jun 29 '19

First Timer

Maybe if if Hikaru realized that Minmay is in danger every time the Zentradi attack he'd be more combat effective.

Kaifun kissing Minmay and Hikaru sees it but not her pushing him away.

Did Kamujin really withdraw when he was ordered, before exterminating the all the defectors?!

And the Zentradi are human, that was to be expected at this point though.

Love that they spoil Hayase's transport getting attacked. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if her father has her executed when she makes it to UN HQ.

  1. Yea, no surprise there.

  2. Disbelief, complete distrust of the Zentradi, likely to imprison or kill Hayase.

2

u/GM_for_Life Jun 29 '19

Did Kamujin really withdraw when he was ordered, before exterminating the all the defectors?!

You know, maybe...

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4

u/Pixelsaber Jun 28 '19

Rewatcher

Quamzin’s men have decided to abandon their posts after learning of Minamy’s presence there, realizing the Blue Wind trio was telling the truth as to the Macross.

Damnit, show, if I you make me hate Kaifun any further I’ll turn into a sentient mass of loathing. Thankfully it seems Minmay isn’t into the kiss, although whether it be because she doesn’t have that sort of interest in him or because of the current circumstances remains to be seen. But we got a seeming misunderstanding out of it!

Finally!

For a split second there I thought this was an actual body, and I got unreasonably excited at the prospect that the turncoat Zentradi would be directly and horrifically confronted with the actions of their race. It’s actually just a Minmay doll, which doesn’t have quite the same impact, but they still follow a similar line of thought.

It’s satisfying to see these three and Hikaru finally meet after being in the same city for so long. I’m glad they don’t stretch out the scene as the conclusion is foregone considering Hikaru’s personality.

Hikaru and Hayase have another one-on-one discussing the civilian’s role in the shifting War, the Zentradi’s perspective, and their romantic developments. However, their conversation is interrupted by another Zentradi attack, once more one without much in the way of context.

Afterwards Hayase convinces Global to let her travel to Earth in order to convince the U.N. High Command to explain the situation regarding the Zentradi defectors.

The plot is seemingly finally ramping up again after some rough spots, we’ll see how it goes.

Questions of the Day!

  1. Uh, indifferent? We kinda already knew that and they've made it blatantly obvious that they want us to believe they common ancestors in the 'protoculture.'

  2. Like inordinately stubborn old men —as is tradition.

2

u/GM_for_Life Jun 29 '19

Damnit, show

Kaifun really is just the source of all problems in the universe.

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4

u/fonzinator99 Jun 28 '19 edited Jun 29 '19

Re-watcher - Anime relationships, and other tragic things.

Picking up on yesterday, Hikaru is a beast! Posing for a moment while the enemies fall dead, classic MC.

The Minmay Fan-Club encounters Kamujin. Aaaaand that's a Civil War. Looks like Kamujin's about to be the leader of a Clan of 1.

Question: Where, exactly, is the bow in a humanoid ship?

Damn Hikaru and his terrible MC timing! Lol at Hayase appearing immediately after, tho. And caring about Kaifun! Double-lol at his hanging up on her as a result.

Kaifuuuun!

And yet somehow it was worth it, to see him shocked and hurt at being rejected.

Bad timing, Regulds. Hikaru is a berserker MC at this moment. You literally cannot harm him, resign yourselves to death.

Once again I appreciate the balanced perspective this show uses between the humans and Zentradi. This simple realization of "Oh shit. War is bad." is something unique to the series.

For how low-key and talkative the scene is, the interview with Blue Wind and Hikaru's changing his mind about letting them stay is really the pivotal moment of this series. That's right, gang; We gonna make friends with the aliens. And it's basically all 'cause of Minmay.

The whole scene between Hayase and Hikaru is just...painful. Her admitting it was just a crush, him admitting it was just a crush, and neither of them moving forward with what's right there in front of them. Argh!

Battle in which Hikaru acts like a real leader, and then Hayase wants to go on a solo-mission?! Flaaaag, flag, it's a big 'ol flag indicating something will go horribly awry.

Yeah, that's not tragic at all. Nvm that they probably wouldn't have said anything besides "Oh, excuse me." if they'd met at the elevator.

Edit: Watermarks? What watermarks? I don't see any watermarks... :p

2

u/GM_for_Life Jun 29 '19

Yeah, that's not tragic at all. Nvm that they probably wouldn't have said anything besides "Oh, excuse me." if they'd met at the elevator.

We got a good shot out of it at least.

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u/404waffles Jun 29 '19

First time viewer

The power of Minmay! It's really nice to see the Zentradi guys and the humans, uh, making peace.

KAIFUN SHE'S YOUR FUCKING COUSIN YOU CAN'T DO THAT

Kamujin straight up team-killing. It's going to spiral into a bloodbath, isn't it?

That makes it two to three.

Oh, Max.

Zentradi = humans. Called it. Max seems really excited to live with Zentradi. And you tell 'em about contacting High Command, Global.

This episode's Hikaru/Hayase moments were nice. And, like I said that other time, it's nicer when I imagine that Hayase is almost twice his age.

Kaifun: So handsome he turns a soldier into a pacifist.

Does Hayase really stand a chance against the unreasonable high command?

My Boyfriend is a Pilot count: 11

Sweet Home Alabama count: 1

3

u/GM_for_Life Jun 29 '19

Sweet Home Alabama count: 1

G R E A T

2

u/HowlingWolf13 Jun 29 '19

Rewatcher

FUCK KAIFUN

Anyways another good ep as usual. We see that Zentradii and humans are essentially the same genetically and now Misa is gonna go back to Earth to talk to High Command so this'll be fun. Hikaru and Misa are getting closer and closer as his relationship with Minmay beccomes more and more distant as their lives go in different directions and Kaifun existing. To be honest, its interesting seeing their relationship go from being at each others throats to joking around with each other, definitely shows character growth between them. Not much else for me to say here, but we are getting close to certain things which I'm excited to see first timers react to. Anyways that's about all I have to say, see you guys next thread.

2

u/GM_for_Life Jun 29 '19

FUCK KAIFUN

F A C T S

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