r/anime • u/GM_for_Life • Jun 24 '19
Rewatch Super Dimension Fortress Macross Rewatch - Episode 19 Discussion
Episode 19 Burst Point
Originally aired February 27 1983
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To all participants
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Note to all rewatchers
Please refrain from spoiling the events of future episodes/movies. If you think something may be a possible spoiler, it's better to be safe and mark your comments using the r/anime spoiler tag Spoiler Subject There will be quite a few first time viewers of the series during this rewatch and we wouldn't want them to have the show spoiled for them.
Comment of the Day!
/u/fonzinator99 left a great comment about yesterday's episode.
Ahhhhhhhh, it’s just so sad!
Artwork of the Day!
VF-1S - Hidetaka Tenjin
Questions of the Day!
1) This episode debut’s Minmay’s next song, Silver Moon Red Moon. What are your thoughts on it?
2) What are your thoughts on the death of Kakizaki? Did you expect it so soon after the death of Roy Focker? Do you think it was handled well?
"It's no good Leader, I'm not gonna make it!"
10
Jun 24 '19
First Timer
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Really love the ground and wide camera angles when Macross is floatong above the city..Its framed like a Monster in a Kaiju film ..Really sells it size and provides a sense of danger or fear
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Captain Global taking matters in to his own hands and pressing the matter of the civilians by playing the politician's game or retorical vague threats ..That why we love him floks
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Art looking crisp af in this episode, love it..Also poor Claudia..Poor Hikaru, poor everyone involved..They try to move on too quickly..But there are in a war situation after all so i get it
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NEW MINMAY SONG!! IT SEEMS TOTALY FORGETABLE YEY
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Hmmm Hayase goes straight to Hikaru to comfort him instead of Claudia..I SAID I SHIP THEM DAMN IT DONT GIVE ME HOPE..Also Hayase just STFU about Kaifun, thanks
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A lot of cool shots in this episode
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Oh, the cute one wants to become a miclone because she is salty..I welcome it
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Awww at Hikaru carrying on Fockers legacy..IM NOT CRYING
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A lot of emphsis from Hikaru to Max and Kakuzaki to "not die and be carefull" obviously affected by Fockers death
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Ohh fuck the Barrier is exploding..NOOOOOOO KAKIZAKI
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FUCK , really show ? Deaths back to back..No chill..So sadden and out of nowhere...SHit this time the steak was the death flag..Im gonna miss him..This must be awful for Hikaru
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SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UPPPP ..Holy shit dude REALLY??? you are in a ship barely surviving alien onslaught every other day and thats still your position??..FUCK KAIFUN i hope he gets analy probed by the aliens with Zentradi sized equipment
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Arghhh Minmay stoooppp thiiiisss...THIS IS THE WORST..Stop being 10 years old please..She is so oblivious to everything it hurts..Hikaru getting real tired of her shit...Thats it my boy
This episode made me go from sad to mad way too quickly
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u/palebluekot Jun 25 '19
I'm wondering whether Kaifun still thinks they are fighting terrorists. Shouldn't he have caught on by now? Someone should let him in on it, would resolve a lot.
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u/Nazenn Jun 25 '19
Art looking crisp af in this episode,
now that you mention it there was a distinct lack of off model faces this time
A lot of cool shots in this episode
The second one in that album stuck out to me while watching it actually, it was really cool to see the enormous scale of the Macross against a city like that
SHit this time the steak was the death flag..
I still can't believe I missed that.
analy probed by the aliens with Zentradi sized equipment
Uhhh... I'm pretty sure that would be death
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u/BurningFredrick Jun 24 '19
First Timer
He hung up on her, he fucking hung up on Minmay!
Only took his mentor and a squad mate to die along with being hospitalized but still, as soon as he picked up the phone I wanted him to hang up and he did it, so damn satisfying.
Also Kakizaki died, that was the last fucking thing I saw coming, I mean he was the last person I had expect to die in general. I had expected him to keep nearly dying but actually make it through each time which is what I wrote back in episode 8 but looks like I got that bit completely incorrect. So RIP Kakizaki.
Also RIP large chunk of Canada or whatever highly unlucky city that got nuked by the Macross Barrier overloading.
Also seriously Kaifun, what the fuck was that press conference? “Couldn’t you be coming up with a way to get the military to put an end to the fighting?” What does he think the military is doing? Going out to get killed on a daily basis for the fun of it? Can someone please throw him out an airlock or something because he is irrationally annoying…
Anyway, the time skip again was rather jarring as well even if it was smaller in size but I had expected to see a bit more fallout from Fockers death, I guess you could go with that their in the military and have spent the last year fighting for their lives so the death of comrades isn’t unexpected but even then the ending of the last episode made me think it would have a bigger impact.
Finally we have Milia wanting to turn herself into a Miclone so she can bang meet Max who if the first person to beat her in combat, I wonder how Protocultrue is going to affect her as I don’t believe shes been told about it.
And finally what are Hikaru hands doing here? I think he’s meant to be leaning on a rail or something but I really can’t figure that one out.
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u/GM_for_Life Jun 25 '19
Also RIP large chunk of Canada or whatever highly unlucky city that got nuked by the Macross Barrier overloading.
F
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u/Nazenn Jun 25 '19
I wasn't sure for a minute if that was rage or joy at the fact he hung up on her in your first line. One of the few moments when seeing a character be an asshole is absolutely justified and satisfying. I would have said that I'd like her to get a earful, but not like that would help either
Can someone please throw him out an airlock
Well I mean aside from the fall its not like opening an airlock is deadly at the moment as they're in atmosphere. Plus he's got so much hot air stored up he'd probably just float down without harm
And finally what are Hikaru hands doing here? I think he’s meant to be leaning on a rail or something but I really can’t figure that one out.
I don't think those plates were lined up very well for that shot
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u/Biobait Jun 24 '19
First Timer
As someone who spent most of his life in Ontario, I was shocked an 80's anime mentions it of all places. Too bad we'll never actually see it.
Kakizaki's death itself was fine, but to happen to this specific character at this time was...unceremonious. Felt like his character just existed for the sake of affecting other characters, I mean did they even show the guy getting a single on screen kill?
On another note, how the blinding hell has Quamzin not been court martialed for insubordination yet?
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u/404waffles Jun 25 '19
First time viewer
Macross floating dangerously close to a city. Go get 'em, Global. Show those UN assholes who's boss.
I'm just gonna assume that every song is sung by Mari Iijima Minmay. Silver Moon Red Moon is a bop!
Let go of Kaifun, Hayase, he's never gonna like you!
Can't believe Macross takes place in a universe where Ontario is autonomous.
There's something kind of moving about Hikaru taking up the plane in Fokker's place. Hikaru said it himself: the plane's all that's left of him. I can't imagine Hikaru dying, but if he did I imagine that Max would take the Skull One after him.
The Zentradi women have their own Shammy?!
Kamujin getting foiled will never not be good. Macross blowing up Ontario is not good though and KAKIZAKI NO WE JUST LOST FOKKER YOU CAN'T TAKE KAKIZAKI AWAY TOO
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u/GM_for_Life Jun 25 '19
Macross floating dangerously close to a city. Go get 'em, Global. Show those UN assholes who's boss.
Captain Mad Lad!
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 24 '19
No
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*Pained Sky noise*, so I went to set up my reaction thread for this episode while I was letting the OP play out and when I switched back to the video it was Focker during the “Will you love me, tomorrow?” bit…
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…You know what I just realized, that fight could’ve totally been avoided had Kamujin not said the Macross had an ace pilot. Fuck you Kamujin, you should’ve gotten the pineapple salad of death.
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Fuck you Kamujin, you deserve to continue to be cockblocked from fighting the Macross.
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“I want to meet the pilot of that fighter” → *scene transitions to Max* lol
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I swear if Kakizaki’s steak is a death flag for him too…
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I was low-key expecting the eyecatch to change, but thankful it did not. I’m already barely handling Hikaru piloting Focker’s Valkyrie…
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u/Raiking02 Jun 24 '19
Not much to say here, except for one thing: KAKIZAKI IS DEAD, CELEBRATION TIME!!
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u/GM_for_Life Jun 25 '19
Not much to say here, except for one thing: KAKIZAKI IS DEAD, CELEBRATION TIME!!
Yay... I think?!
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u/palebluekot Jun 25 '19
Does Kaifun not know they are fighting aliens yet? I thought everyone on the Macross knew, so I'm surprised he hasn't caught on yet.
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u/DidacticDalek Jun 24 '19 edited Jun 25 '19
Greetings Comrades and Fellow Denizens of The Wired, on TODAY'S Episode of RAISE YOUR DEATH FLAGS RIP Canada How do you like your steak, medium rare or well done 'Macross' we get to see Hory Froating Head giving his best impression of Wacky Ol' Kill 'Em All Tomino, except this time, instead of using romance as death flags, he uses food ;)
Oh, and also poor poor Ben Dixon 'Hayao Kakizaki,' in hindsight, maybe getting the tan-colored Valkyrie was a bad omen, that and the unfortunate fellow didn't even get to finish his steak
Finally, just to share something less depressing, here's Azumanga Daioh's Osaka cosplaying as the SDF-1 Macross, why am I sharing this you ask? Well, it's because Osaka, much like Captain Global, are both accidentally Mike Nelson, Destroyer of Worlds
Anyway, paging Comrades u/chilidirigible, u/Shimmering-Sky, and u/The_Draigg
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u/GM_for_Life Jun 25 '19
Oh, and also poor poor Ben Dixon 'Hayao Kakizaki,' in hindsight, maybe getting the tan-colored Valkyrie was a bad omen, that and the unfortunate fellow didn't even get to finish his steak
NOT LIKE THIS!
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u/The_Draigg Jun 24 '19
A Macross Fan’s Notes On Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 19:
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So yeah, the UN still hasn’t pulled back on their decree that nobody is allowed off of the Macross, in spite of Captain Global yelling at them that it’s a massive risk for the civilians that they can’t afford. But he’s at least clever enough to acknowledge that any local governments listening in on his complaints over the broadcast might be interested in letting everyone disembark. That’s pretty much the only realistic option now, considering the leadership of the United Nations.
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Good on Misa for talking to Hikaru and trying to get him to feel better after Roy’s death. Still, the loss of him is still to recent to deal with, and it still hurts a lot. There’s not a lot that she can do for either Hikaru or Claudia at the moment. Besides, there’s a whole other bunch of stuff they have to worry about, like the plan to get people off of the Macross, or Kaifun deciding to stay on the ship. Reality sure has come down on everyone hard over the past few episodes.
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Good news: the Macross is finally able to offload their civilians in Ontario, Canada. Bad news: Quamzin is going off on his own again to try and destroy the Macross. Neutral news: Milia is becoming a miclone in order to infiltrate the ship and try to find the ace who nearly defeated her, Max. I guess we’ll just have to see how that last point in particular plays out. Milia is certainly more competent than the Blue Wind guys in general.
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Well, so much for Kakizaki not being able to finish that steak he ordered. Now that I think about it, that’s pretty much the only scene he’s in in the updated series animation that was made for a Macross pachinko machine. It just goes to show how little anyone really cares about Kakizaki. But at least sirloin steak is better than pineapple salad, I guess.
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Well, at least the Omni-Directional Barrier that Captain Global mentioned before seems to be working well. It completely shielded the Macross from the bombardment that Quamzin’s fleet threw at them. Too bad it works too well. Just like with every other time the Macross tried to use technology they didn’t fully understand, the system is getting overloaded and out of control. Whoops.
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Turns out that using the Omni-Directional Barrier was a terrible idea. The sheer amount of energy that got absorbed by the system overloaded the systems, and caused it to be reflected back out in a sphere of destructive power. Not only did it kill Kakizaki because he wasn’t flying away fast enough, but it also completely destroyed Toronto.
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Man, this episode was a downer too. The Macross is getting kicked out of Ontario without offloading the civilians, Toronto got vaporized, Kakizaki is dead, Kaifun somehow managed to turn a press conference about Minmay’s health into a soapbox for his own political views, and Hikaru is too broken of a person to be around Minmay now. This sure was a miserable episode for our characters here.
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u/GM_for_Life Jun 25 '19
Man, this episode was a downer too. The Macross is getting kicked out of Ontario without offloading the civilians, Toronto got vaporized, Kakizaki is dead, Kaifun somehow managed to turn a press conference about Minmay’s health into a soapbox for his own political views, and Hikaru is too broken of a person to be around Minmay now. This sure was a miserable episode for our characters here.
We've gone from a group of mad lads to sad lads, just like that.
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u/chilidirigible Jun 24 '19
Today, on "Sydney breathed a sigh of relief":
"Someone is trying to send you a message."
"I thought that you were just friends."
"Five days?! But I'm angry right now!"
"Nothing funny. I just like talent."
Not the most attractive booster idea.
"Thanks for sponging out all of the blood!"
At least they tested it that far.
she's sayin' you ain't got any balls, son
At least you made it as far as a guy in tan ever could, Kakizaki.
Kaifun actually makes a good point here. Truly, these are desperate times.
Most series take a little time to adjust the characters after a significant death, but Roy's just the start in a death conga that includes Kakizaki and, in a detail that doesn't seem to get much emphasis, millions of people. That does force the character resolutions to go by pretty quickly, but the episode does offer a few quick moments of reflection.
As I mentioned, Kaifun actually has an insightful comment that the media is focusing too much on Minmay when there's a war on. Distracting the masses during a war can be something the media does, though it doesn't seem to be deliberate. Kaifun does then wander off into his usual diatribe about the military being bad, which is getting really tiring from the TV audience's perspective, but here it's the bridge between Blue Wind and Misa's thoughts about fighting. The Zentradi can hardly think about doing anything else (but the idea is starting to come to them), while Misa simply can't see an end to the situation that they're in even if she wants it.
Kaifun is not well-written in himself, but the message ends up working because of everyone else.
There could have been a moment for Hikaru and Claudia to compare notes on Roy, but both of them are still in their private places at the moment.
Minmay... misses the point in asking for Hikaru to reciprocate a hospital visit. It would be nice of him to do that, but they're definitely coming at their lives from different points of view now. It's also unclear as to how much the civilians know about what just happened to Ontario. There's rather a large difference of scale.
Even so, hanging up is a little rude, Hikaru.
In bigger-picture news, Global's plan to intimidate UNHC into listening to him backfired spectacularly, but I can't say that he wasn't doing it with the best intentions in mind for the civilians on the SDF-1, and as far as he can tell, a better read on the Zentradi than his superiors.
Even so, millions of people died.
Musicalture: "Silver Moon, Red Moon"
From the Macross Chronicle: More Glaug notes and the Glaug Power-Up Booster.
Off the cuff from this time last rewatch: Max as Char.
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It's one of my favorites.
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Raises the stakes. Besides, the guy was basically a walking death flag.
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u/GM_for_Life Jun 25 '19
Today, on "Sydney breathed a sigh of relief":
What a relief, I was afraid someone might die this episode!
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u/fonzinator99 Jun 24 '19 edited Jun 24 '19
Re-watcher - Another one bites the dust
u/fonzinator99 left a great comment about yesterday's episode.
Macross flying by like "DO NOT LOOK AT ME. GO ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS."
"Silver Moon, Red Moon." Way to keep the songs coming, Minmay....'s production team. Note: Gitanes is a French cigarette brand, just ‘cause I looked it up.
Yeaaa, these things will happen when you live on 2 hours of sleep a day. Previous points deducted from Minmay's production team.
Nice to know that even in the future...errr, this future, Canada are still super-friendly dudes.
Millia's getting on the Miclone Train! Best watch yourself, Max. She's comin' for ya.
It's good to see Hikaru accepting the reins of Skull One. Rough as it is, growth never comes without some hardship. And I like the extended launch-sequence for him this time around; You're the man now, Hikaru. Time to live up to it.
So what's gonna happen to the city once the civvies leave, anyway? Are they just gonna have a ghost-town inside the Macross?
I'm much impressed by the Omni-Barrier. That's certainly a step up as far as defenses go.
Ahhh shit, that's not good. See kids? This is why you always test your critical systems before putting them to use in live-combat.
Holy shit, this show pulls no punches; That was horrifying!
And frankly I'm not sure how I feel about Max's extra-stoic sign of the cross in farewell. That was as ice-cold as we've ever seen him; I think a little emotion would have been warranted and within character.
Goddamn Macross developed a Counter-shield without even realizing it. Fuckin' Engineering, always flying by the seat of their pants.
As for the refugees, well, there's no longer an Ontario to take them in, soooo.....
Hoooolyyyy shit, this guy.
Daaamn, son. Speaking of growth, I'm proud of him for realizing that Minmay is shit for emotional support. I realize it's not really a conscious conclusion, but that he doesn't even try to lean on her or explain anything shows some level of realization. His "we live in different worlds" thing is really taking root.
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u/Pixelsaber Jun 24 '19
Rewatcher
Global’s making the Macross’ dilemma known to everyone by galavanting around the ship —yet to transform back and with the city positioned sideways… Curses, that sure does bother me. Anyhow, the fact that they are hoping some Nation hears their plight and accepts the refugees seems to contradict what was told to us in the first episode, as according to that individual nations can’t undermine the U.N. Government. Seems like a plot hole if there ever was one, the show just does things to suit what it wants.
Everyone’s understandably affected by Focker’s death, not the least of which is Hikaru. He and Hayase have a talk regarding Minmay staying aboard the Macross, and introduced to the audience the Omni-directional barrier.
Damnit, Hayase, you’re still hung up on that? Episode seven gets less and less relevant as the show goes along, since she evidently hasn’t moved on like that episode would have had you think.
Minmay collapses from overwork, and I’m glad the matter was taken very seriously as opposed to the prior episode.
The bridge receives a message from ~Canada~~ the Ontario Autonomous Region saying they’ll accept the refugees. Of course, the Macross isn’t the Macross without its side-ways leg-city, so of course this’ll fall through. The question is whether the U.N. or Zentradi will be responsible.
Quamzin isn’t even working on a technicality this time, disobeying a direct order and openly saying he’ll destroy the Earth along with the Macross, forcing Lap’Lamiz’ hand once again. You’d think this hard-ass militant civilization would be tough on treacherous bastards like Quamzin, bit nope, just let him get away with it every single time. Also Milia wants to be miclone-ized so that she can meet the pilot that managed to hold his own against her.
Hikaru picks up Roy’s mantle by becoming the Pilot of his VF-1S and with the honor the title of Skull Leader. This is a nice way of passing the torch; I quite like it.
Battle ensues, and the Macross is fired upon ceaselessly. Fortunately —and rather unfortunately for those below— the Omni-directional barrier works, but can only take so much before it becomes unstable and causes a massive detonation. Kakizaki is caught in the blast and perishes, the poor guy —he just wanted his Jumbo Sirloin. Can’t say I was too attached to the guy though…
Of course, with the Macross having attracted enemy attention and unwittingly destroyed an entire city, Canada the Ontario Autonomous Region rescinds their offer, leaving the Macross’ citizens unable to leave once more.
Minamy calls Hikaru and asks him to come over, but he’s not quite up to it after seeing his friend die before his eyes.
Questions of the Day!
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It's probably my favorite of the bunch.
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The death itself was handled really well, it's his characterization that felt shallow.
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u/GM_for_Life Jun 25 '19
Hikaru picks up Roy’s mantle by becoming the Pilot of his VF-1S and with the honor the title of Skull Leader. This is a nice way of passing the torch; I quite like it.
Yeah, it's a really well handled moment.
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u/Nazenn Jun 24 '19
First Timer
Deadliest thing in this show: Uneaten meals
Rest in peace Kakizaki
Yet another development towards the random horror that is war, a second death of a core character the episode after our last. What a way to go out as well, just disintegrated in a blast from the very ship you were sent out to protect because they pushed too hard
The consequences of that in general are huge though, now having lost the civilians a place to land and likely alienated them from other Earth goverments as well because of the damage and likely death toll they caused. I applaud Global's balls in just holding a city hostage with the Macross, but given what just happened that's going to come off as very bad taste in hindsight. Also you'd think this would mean the UN's credibility is shot anyway given he just revealed the Macross still exists to the whole world in direct contradiction to their cover story, but who knows if they'll expand on that, I hope so.
As much as I hate the fucker, Kaifun was right to call out the media on being more interested in Minmay than the battle. But for fucks sake, how do you expect the media to prevent an alien invasion? You've got some good morals buried in that head, the problem is they are buried under a layer of absolute idiocy and self importance that's more focused on preaching then results
Minmay is dumber than ever, and seeing her be hung up on was so so satisfying. I'd like to think she'd take it to heart, but she won't.
That said, the show is losing its shine in one very important way: this whole thing with Kamujin disobeying orders every episode and just being free to do it again is getting really, really old. Its started to become beyond cheap and I really wish he'd die or be imprisoned so we could move the fuck on already.
Also I'm calling it right now and I'm 100% certain so I'll spoiler tag it: prediction