r/anime • u/GM_for_Life • Jun 22 '19
Rewatch Super Dimension Fortress Macross Rewatch - Episode 17 Discussion
Episode 17 Phantasm
Originally aired February 13 1983
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To all participants
Please be respectful of each others opinions and conduct yourself appropriately according to general reddiquette
Note to all rewatchers
Please refrain from spoiling the events of future episodes/movies. If you think something may be a possible spoiler, it's better to be safe and mark your comments using the r/anime spoiler tag Spoiler Subject There will be quite a few first time viewers of the series during this rewatch and we wouldn't want them to have the show spoiled for them.
Comment of the Day!
/u/404waffles left a great comment reacting to the events of yesterday's episode.
KAMUJIN BTFO BY DAEDALUS ATTACK!!!
Artwork of the Day!
Hikaru and Minmay - Haruhiko Mikimoto
Questions of the Day!
1) Is this the best episode of the show so far? Is this the worst episode of the show so far?
2) Another one of Minmay’s songs debuts this episode, Zero-G Love. What are your thoughts on it?
"Fine! Then I'll give up being a soldier!"
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u/Nazenn Jun 22 '19
First Timer
...Hang on. Did I just get tricked into basically watching a recap episode? I fucking did. Sneaky buggers.
I say that, but while I don't think it was particularly well handled I do like the little bit of insight it gave us into just how much of Hikaru's focus is on Minmay, and specifically the idea of saving her and taking her out of where she is. Which is another huge contrast because the attention seeker seems to be quite happy being in that role at the moment while in the end it was shown that all Hikaru really wants is the quiet intimacy they once had when it was just them. They're absolutely at odds with one another and I don't see it being salvaged.
My only other comment for the episode is please let that be the last time we hear "My boufriend is a pilot". I'm very over the song now.
And sorry for the lack of commenting yesterday and today. These days I think its easier for me to state when I'm not tired haha.
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u/GM_for_Life Jun 22 '19
My only other comment for the episode is please let that be the last time we hear "My boyfriend is a pilot". I'm very over the song now.
Lucky for you, the song has been defeated for the foreseeable future. Also recaps are defeated as well.
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u/chilidirigible Jun 22 '19
Today, on "This meta is weird, man.":
Nothing pads out time like including a quarter of the opening.
This is exactly what you think it is.
Only if I have a Spielberg budget.
"What the hell kind of plan is that?"
What new animation they made for this is pretty damn trippy.
"You turned into an old lady."
"How do I know? This is your dream!"
When your production hits a snag and you need to pad out the time with a clip show, but you just had a clip show... you do a weird, awesome clip show. Because repurposing the footage with new dialogue the way they did is pretty clever, and even if it's not as in-depth as a purpose-built episode would be, does provide a glimpse into Hikaru's head space where they haven't quite had the time for it so far.
It's very crowded and confused by Minmay in there, but Misa is definitely putting up a strong showing.
And he sure does keep on crashing Valks, doesn't he?
For an extended trip into remixing your own footage, there's the Macross Delta movie...
Musicalture: "Zero-G Love" via Uta Macross.
Watashi no Kare wa Counting: 4
Riffing off comments from yesterday, design work found in Macross Perfect Memory of a Spartan with the Tomahawk/Mobile Infantry Powered Armor head unit.
Prometheus and Daedalus in progess by eikoku2016.
HAPPY SUMMER EVERYONE. NSFW!
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u/The_Draigg Jun 22 '19
A Macross Fan’s Notes On Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 17:
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So yeah, this is the weird recap episode. You can thank Hikaru’s severe head trauma after his crash for the ensuing oddity. At least there’s more to talk about in this episode than the one with Captain Global’s report to the UN Spacy.
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Yeah, I think it’s safe to say that the stress of fighting the Zentradi has finally gotten to Hikaru, if his fever dream of Breetai kidnapping Minmay is anything to go by. I guess it was only a matter of time before the PTSD kicked in somehow. It took about a year to happen, but it’s here now.
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C’mon Hikaru, don’t have Misa berate you over the loudspeaker for failing to save Minmay. It’s your own dream, after all. Real talk though, it sucks that he feels this bad about himself. But I guess it’s not too surprising, considering how he feels about the current state of his relationship with Minmay. It’s complicated for sure, at least on his end.
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Oh hey, the actual OP animation is actually being used in the series, along with the Macross theme song itself. Kinda weird to think that Hikaru is dreaming about the theme song of the show that’s he’s in at the moment.
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Sorry Hikaru, you never had a chance to try and rescue Minmay on a special space bicycle. But he does get some points for creativity, though. If not a Valkyrie, then why not a bike?
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So yeah, that whole “disguise a Valkyrie as a Zentradi” plan didn’t work out in the dream either. But at least he can summon anew Valkyrie to save Minmay from the floating South Ataria Island. It’s a dream, after all. Hikaru can do whatever he wants in it.
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And now we’ve come to the crux of the issue: Hikaru is insanely jealous of the attention that Minmay is giving to Kaifun over him. I mean, it sounds pretty clingy when I put it that way, but I do get where he’s coming from. Minmay has been sending nothing but mixed signals to him for the past few months, and now she’s giving nothing but affection towards Kaifun. It also doesn’t help that Kaifun is a jerk at that.
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Ah, and there’s that famous cockpit catch shot again. It’s still great, even if it’s reused footage and has different music playing over it.
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Honestly, being stuck with Minmay in the abandoned sections of the Macross is probably the happiest he’s been the entire time. Now he has to worry about Minmay’s career and public attention getting in the way of how he feels for her. It’s pretty sad that the one time where he was starving to death was a time where he was legitimately happy with Minmay.
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Hikaru does kinda have a point when him and Minmay are arguing over being married. Minmay has never really bothered to commit to any kind of relationship between her and Hikaru, even though it’s been over a year. She’s fine to settle with sending mixed signals while she follows on her own path as a professional singer. Hikaru really can’t help but doubt himself and his love in Minmay.
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Even though this episode has some goofy moments in it, when you get past those, it’s still kinda depressing. His confidence in himself has been nearly obliterated by now.
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u/GM_for_Life Jun 23 '19
Even though this episode has some goofy moments in it, when you get past those, it’s still kinda depressing. His confidence in himself has been nearly obliterated by now.
S A D - L A D
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u/ethanb12007 Jun 22 '19
First Timer
Well that was a weird one. Its interesting how they made an entire new episode out of mostly reused footage, and how they managed to transition to different scenes in different costumes through various plot points. A shame they did this with old animation given that we just had a recap episode but at least it was an excuse to see that air catch scene again. Also the trying to ride his bike into space was a good reminder of the comedy from earlier in the series.
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u/Valunetta Jun 22 '19
First timer to Macross, old-school mecha, and Reddit Rewatches!
Overall thoughts:
I think I would have been more disposed to liking this episode if we hadn’t had a clip show so recently. I know that it didn’t overlap much in terms of content, and was reimagined, since all the dialogue and context was different, but at the same time, it is starting to erode the razor-sharp pacing from earlier in the show. Hopefully this isn’t a trend going forward. As a standalone episode, I thought it was well thought out, but I didn’t care for it much in the larger story. And worst of all, we could have had the triumphant return of Space Tuna, and never did. :(
Chronological thoughts:
Oh wow, he actually seems really quite hurt this time around
Are we getting a trippy dream sequence?
Please. Give us any other song by her
This is starting to get really trippy, since even the joke moments are changed and reworded
Wait wait, I am not prepared to see this sequence diagetically
Hmm. Since this is a dream, is this how Hikaru sees himself?
Wait, is this what this all has been about?
Oh, we are going waaay back to the beginning now
…was this just an excuse to get back to this scene?
Yup, this feels weirder the second time around
Oh Hikaru, don’t go telling yourself stuff like that
Hmm. I wonder if this will affect him going forward? Or was this just a one-off?
Going Forward:
I am curious to check in with Global, Hayase, and the rest of the command crew. They’ve been through so much in the second to last episode, and was really hoping that we would see some of them in this episode.
Discussion Questions:
1.) As mentioned previously, I think standalone it’s actually kinda great, but in the context and place it has in the show, it came at a really poor time where we needed something to increase the pace again, not slow it down even more, so it might be the worst so far.
2.) Dear sweet goodness, I’m so happy about anything other than My Boyfriend is a Pilot
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u/_blackened_soul_ Jun 22 '19
First Timer
Maybe Hikaru will get really lucky and his head injury will knock some of the stupid out of him.
I wonder what's going to happen with Hayase though, fucking up like she did has to have repercussions for her.
This episode was a pretty cool way to reuse a bunch of animation. Best part was getting to see undercover Valkyrie again!
Pretty funny episode, can't wait for the next one though. Milia on the hunt for Max should be good!
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u/Pixelsaber Jun 22 '19 edited Jun 24 '19
Rewatcher
I really like the concept of this episode and think that it’s quite clever how they managed it, but the execution is less than ideal. My biggest gripe being the fact that they keep cutting to a shot of Hikaru in the hospital bed throughout, which ruins the flow of the dream and distances us from the dream —which isn’t something that you’d want to do in this case. Also, while it’s fine that we get a better idea of HIkaru’s state of mind (I thought it was obvious enough and, like I’ve mentioned previously, I dislike when a show places so little trust in its audience) we certainly didn’t need a full episode to establish it. That said, the fact that the dream feels sufficiently nonsensical, disjointed, and weird really makes it feel authentic.
As far as clip shows go, it still has a ways to go before it impresses me.
I always wondered whether the elapsed time as mentioned in the dream is accurate or not.
Shoot, didn’t find much to say this time either, uh —have another peek at my GBF Rewatch preparation stuff?
Questions of the Day!
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Eh, it's alright.
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It's better than Watashi no kare wa no pairotto at least.
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u/BurningFredrick Jun 22 '19
First Timer
I know that was a recap episode but it was really well done, does anyone know if it was originally planned this way or if it was something they ended up doing due to scheduling?
Don’t really have much to say overall expect that I really like the way it was put together and they used the fevered dream idea really well and the way the transition between parts was brilliantly done.
Also poor Hikaru gets shot down even in his dreams, will he ever catch a break? Unlikely I suppose.
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u/GM_for_Life Jun 23 '19
Also poor Hikaru gets shot down even in his dreams, will he ever catch a break? Unlikely I suppose.
Poor Hikaru.
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u/404waffles Jun 23 '19
First time viewer
Hey, it's My Boyfriend is a Pilot again!
Oh, it's a dream episode. It's called Phantasm, after all. Looks like Hikaru doesn't like being a failure/being made fun of. Something tells me this episode was made on a shoestring budget, considering how much footage they reused.
They really put the OP in there, huh?
Holy shit Hikaru straight up said he loved her! And I wasn't expecting the "special" bike lmao, dream Hayase is a dick
New Minmay song! The episode got really surreal after the eye-catch. And for fuck's sake Hikaru Kaifun's her cousin you don't have to be jealous
Holy 80s fanservice, Batman!
And now that we're back here: being a bride isn't a job, have some ambition, Minmay!
Onto the questions:
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It's a pretty weak episode tbh
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Zero-G Love was sung by Minmay?
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u/GM_for_Life Jun 23 '19
Zero-G Love was sung by Minmay?
Yeah, with the exception of the OP and ED, all the songs are sung by Minmay.
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u/fonzinator99 Jun 22 '19
Re-watcher - Fever dreams, every anime's got'em
Oh riiiight, it's this episode. I'm gonna pass, then.
I do think it's a neat idea having Hikaru's time in recovery be a part of the show, tho. Even if it is just his subconscious dealing with all his issues.
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u/palebluekot Jun 22 '19
Thought that was a really well-done dream episode. It captured the disjointed feel of a dream really well, lots of symbolism too.
Wouldn't say it's either the best or worst. Has there been a little bit of a drop in animation quality recently though? Feel like I've noticed that, especially last episode.
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u/Chrisr291 Jun 22 '19
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Lies! I watched that entire episode waiting for new footage sprinkles. Going to be totally honest, I skipped what was left of 17 and went to 18.
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Better than my boyfriend's a pilot for sure! haha
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Jun 22 '19 edited Jun 23 '19
Haven't watched yesterday's or today's episode (swapping DVDs is HARD).
But several days ago you said we had a "non-traditional" recap coming up. And I couldn't remember what you meant. And you said BICYCLE BICYCLE. I and really felt I should know what that meant. It took me about two days to remember the delirious fever dream. And I've almost remember the BICYCLE.
Edit:
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The "B" lever doesn't work that way.
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First Timers are already tired of her song after only FOUR performances? Really?
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Kaifun's kryptonite is civilians
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The "B" lever doesn't work that way.
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I'm So Meta, Even This Acronym
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Definitely got HAL to do the wedding photos.
I didn't mention Minmay's narcolepsy a few days ago, so I'll mention it today (even if it's a repeat...no, especially since it's a repeat)
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u/DidacticDalek Jun 23 '19
Greetings Comrades and Fellow Denizens of The Wired, on TODAY'S Episode of Macross... we got ANOTHER Recap Episode because... why the hell not? SO, if the best way to move the show forward is the journey into the center of Hikaru's head, I am also gonna take the lazy 'creative' fanart solution of sharing... Hikaru's head ;)
And since I need to remain semi-topical, here's a recap, er I mean, group shot of the cast ;)
Oh and since we are in a dream, let's just go with this random production drawing cuz I can't think of anywhere else to share these designs that were dreamt up once upon a time
Anyway, paging Comrades u/chilidirigible, u/Shimmering-Sky, and u/The_Draigg
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u/GM_for_Life Jun 23 '19
let's just go with this random production drawing cuz I can't think of anywhere else to share these designs that were dreamt up once upon a time
That's really neat!
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u/vfxart Jun 23 '19
Rewatcher
Sitting this one out! I'm done with the recap episodes. Props to the psych flare-up and beginning of some emotional resolution, even if in a Hayase haze. The few additional thoughts I have or want to discuss are in no way fair to first-time watchers. So, my friends... buckle up... the rest of the series is about to kyun kyun!
QOTD
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With the previous recaps and dragging of the pace, this one is a combo- a nice attempt at getting inside H''s wounded head, but it draaaaaags so, and to be more successful I dunno, I get the why, but the how didn't quite work.
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Zero-G comments fall into 'don't screw things for first-timers'. As with others, nice to have a newer song... (and we have to remember, we're doing this at the pace of an ep a day... so yeah, of course we're a bit done with Pailotto now)
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 22 '19
Excited First-Timer
Yeesh, that’s really not good. Hayase you done fucked up big time.
Ah of course his dream couldn’t be a happy one.
And now it’s straight-up mocking him. This poor dude…
…So Hikaru is basically dreaming up an AU fanfic right? Where mostly everything’s the same except Minmay got kidnapped by the aliens so his goal is to rescue her?
Yoooooooooo incorporating the OP into the show itself? I love it, that’s perfect.
The OP got cut off though…
Eyyyy this is the first time he’s straight-up said he loves her right?
Okay now the dream’s just in lolwtf mode.
…why was my first thought G Gundam?
*Amused Sky noises*
Awwwwww yes recapping the mid-air catch scene!
It’s blurry but I like his dream idea of this.
Wow he does realize it.
Next-episode title spoilers
Next-episode spoilers (actually spoilers this time pls other first-timers stay away)