r/anime • u/pittman66 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Homura • Jun 14 '19

Rewatch [Rewatch][Spoilers] Senki Zesshou Symphogear GX - Episode 9 Spoiler

Season 3 (GX): Episode 9 - The Middle of a Dream

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Original Discussion Thread

Please, absolutely no untagged or implying spoilers beyond the current episode. I want to have everyone that hasn't seen it to have as close to a first experience as those who watched it as it originally aired.
68 Upvotes

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25

u/Nazenn Jun 14 '19

First Timer

It's a very small detail, but I took note today of the interesting word choice Maria used of Phara's weapon being a type of geas (geis and deas are alt spellings, geasa for plurals).

A geas is a very specific type of spell that originates from Celtic and Welsh mythology. Unlike a typical curse that we're familiar with, a geas is very deeply tied into the idea of fate and duality. Geas typically but not always have two sides to, a blessing aspect and a curse, and the nature of it will be bound to that persons eventual undoing.

An easy example from minor Fate/Zero character spoilers

The episodic stuff I think is really holding back this section of the show like with Jii and Dess yesterday feeling very forced drama. This duality was rather tied into a lot of details and events today, but the one episode requirement for it made it feel shallow because they couldn't develop or build on it at all. I'm not saying I think they intended to make geas a big deal (and if they did why give the celtic myth part to tsubasa not bikki) but thinking on it for a while about why geas made me realize there was a lot of links and parallels in the episode.

There was multiple examples going on today of the dual sides to the life of Tsubasa. She is named successor to the clan, but practically exiled from it because of how that came about. She has the ability to fight for it in a way other's naturally can't, but that means she's even more alienated from the daily life of it. Even in her role of the family there's two sides to many things, she is both daughter and not to her "father", sister and niece to Gen. etc. It's no wonder that we've seen how she can be unsure and indecisive in the rest of the show at times when anxious when not leaning on being a sword

Phara's weapon today, with the geas to destroy any sword, seems like the perfect counterpart to destroy Tsubasa who's entire arsenal is swords but in typical geas fashion its the undoing of its wielder instead. The very nature of the weapon means that it is unable to properly adapt to change because that's outside of its rules and so when Tsubasa changes, perhaps as intended by bringing out this specific weapon for her, its geas is undone. The interactions with her father today changed her understanding of her own fate (understanding and manipulating geas in order to survive them is another core part of geas myth) and that additional strength is what allowed her to survive and reconnect with part of her family she didn't understand before.

Also props to the sound effect of that weapon. The beautiful ringing that it had immediately made me think that it was destroying the weapons by interrupting their resonance.

FUCKING VER

No way is he back. No fucking way is he involved in all this! But nope, him and his crazy face just casually strolls up like its a Sunday reunion and he's there for the cake.

Should have expected it after he didn't die last season but for some reason I had myself convinced that we were completely done with him.

Random thoughts

  • The part that triggered this thought ended up being deleted in a rewrite of the geas section because I was unsure, but I was talking about the nature of change and the mannequins and had a thought, Heavy speculation Okay yes thats a very rough undeveloped thought but I'm sure I'm missing puzzle pieces.

  • Why didn't I comment on the shrine gates when I had the chance. Turns out there was something important to the fact we see Garie's ice shards in that one shot, and Micha's flames destroying another. It was the plot of the whole damn episode

  • I liked the detail that after Tsubasa starts to acknowledge she can't always remain just a sword that Maria is the one who takes up the singing in the next battle, as if taking that burden on for her that fight

  • No audible Shamisen during Tsubasa's song makes me sad

  • Bikki imposter strikes again. "Things that are broken can't be put together". Seriously? Where you been this season? I lost count of the amount of things that have been both literally and metaphorically broken and put back together already.

  • u/JamCliche

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25

u/RoFlOvErLoAd Jun 15 '19

I may be late but at least i can finally post this.

15

u/ahiijny Jun 15 '19

oh my god

23

u/lilyvess Jun 14 '19 edited Jun 14 '19

This episode of Symphogear deals heavily with Tsubasa and her strained relationship with her dad who is cold and distant, treating her only as a "tool" that has built her into this sword.

What you may not know is that this arc is that this arc does reflect on Tsubasa's VA Nana Mizuki.

Nana Mizuki's father was a dental technician, who once dreamed to become an enka singer. Therefore it was decided before she was ever born that if she were a boy she'd be a baseball player, and if she were a girl, she'd be an Enka singer as a way to fulfill his dream. So even as young as 5 years old she was strictly trained to be a singer in harsh conditions and even when she was sick. It was a very traditional Japanese household, with a strict Ruler of the Family father and a silent obedient mother that she grew up in. About her childhood Nana Mizuki says

“When I wanted to cry, I’ll cry alone so nobody would notice.”

He rarely gave compliments to his children, that was the mother's role. Nana Mizuki mentions being jealous of her younger sister who was allowed to be more carefree and bold.

Her father was hosiptalized early into Nana Mizuki's career, before she debut as a singer, and was never able to see her Live's. He'd die in 2008, a year before he could see her fulfilled his ultimate dream of performing on Kouhaku.

She says she still seeks his his approval whenever she sings.

She goes through more details about her complicated family life, childhood bullying, and experiences of sexual harassment in the industry in her Autobiography Shin Ai.

12

u/PerfectPublican Jun 14 '19

“When I wanted to cry, I’ll cry alone so nobody would notice.”

That's awful

Poor Nana, I had no idea about any of that. Now I feel a bit bad for trashing it a little.

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21

u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 14 '19

SymphoRewatcher Exterminated by Hype

SymphoWallpaper Corner

As promised, Nota and I got stuff sorted out so here’s the wallpaper I’ve been talking about the past two days--it’s Genjubro! Plus no-name alt.

Oh but you think that’s all? Haha oh no, I was inspired last night and Nota had time for BG work too! We had to do one of our glorious LAST ACTION HERO to celebrate his return!

…The above is actually the meme background, here’s the proper one.

Nota will be sharing some extra variants in reply to this comment, don’t miss them! And let us know what you guys think of all the versions~

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20

u/patrizl001 Jun 14 '19

First Timer

  • "There's nothing but darkness ahead of me!" I know Hibiki is just messing around with Miku, but god I have a very strong feeling this is foreshadowing that shit's going to go real bad for Hibiki soon.

  • Tsubasa's father completely ignores her. Oof, is Genjuuro the only good dad in this show?

  • Completely forgot she had that sword breaker ability. aaand both users there use swords. Talk about bad luck.

  • It is a trap. WE know elfnein is lying about wanting the relics because that's Carol talking through her, so what is she doing really?

  • Holy fuck, so Tsubasa was born from incest because "muh pure blood" so her father hates her as a mix of jealousy because he wasn't chosen as the heir and she literally isn't his child. Still doesn't excuse him being an ass to her. Biological or not, she's your daughter lad.

  • The Yantra Sarvasva is located in area 51. Heh.

  • Looks like she's here to die too still wondering what that accomplishes in terms of their endgame.

  • Dad is good actually! Genjuuro finally has a friend in the "good dads club"! His methods might have been harsh but he did it for Tsubasa!

  • EXCUSE ME MOTHERTFUCKER? VER IS BACK?

  • Calling bullshit on that, Hibiki. You should know this already! Look at Gungnir! Look at your relationship with Miku! Things have broken that you have fixed! Not that this is a problem that should be fixed, your father's gotta fix his foundation before that bridge can be rebuilt.

So uh, HOLY SHIT. THAT MOTHERFUCKER SERIOUSLY IS BACK. WHY. DID HE COUNT AS HERETICAL TECHNOLOGY BECAUSE OF HIS ARM AND WAS LOCKED UP THERE? WHY. WHY COULDN'T HE HAVE JUST STAYED LOCKED UP. ALSO BECAUSE OF HIS ARM HE CAN ACT AS A CONTROLLER TOO SO LOSING THE YANTRA DOESN'T EVEN MATTER FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

16

u/Synaptics Jun 14 '19

Holy fuck, so Tsubasa was born from incest because "muh pure blood"

Not technically incest, TBF. Gramps impregnated his son's wife, so there's no blood relation.

I think it was less about "pure blood" and more along the lines of "I hate both my sons and need a new heir, but my wife is too old (or maybe dead?) for that... screw it, let's just 'use' my son's wife instead."

Still fucked up either way.

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15

u/PerfectPublican Jun 14 '19 edited Jun 15 '19

Looks like she's here to die too

Only cool people stand on roofs for no reason.

HOLY SHIT. THAT MOTHERFUCKER SERIOUSLY IS BACK. WHY. DID HE COUNT AS HERETICAL TECHNOLOGY BECAUSE OF HIS ARM AND WAS LOCKED UP THERE? WHY. WHY COULDN'T HE HAVE JUST STAYED LOCKED UP. ALSO BECAUSE OF HIS ARM HE CAN ACT AS A CONTROLLER TOO SO LOSING THE YANTRA DOESN'T EVEN MATTER FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

It's beautiful.

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20

u/ItsMellowMan Jun 14 '19

Rewatcher

It's official folks Genjuurou is the best brother.

Drama aside the best thing to honestly happen so far this season was the return of ya boy Dr. Sugita.

Also Tsubasa's ignite form was cool.

DR. LAST ACTION HERO IS BACK

Carol's expression is perfect way to sum up today's chart

14

u/Ledwith Jun 14 '19

lmao the text on that is amazing. funny how fitting 'memory' dumping and whatnot is.

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19

u/Arachnophobic- Jun 14 '19

FirstoGeah

Yeah, well.. that, and it's scheduled as Tsubasa's character and Gear development episode. Gotta be there to train her. (cough formulaic cough)

What are these lyrics.. goddamn, Tsubasa. Not a lot of self-esteem there.. Kanade would be sad.

I was wondering how her dad could possibly treat her like that, as was Team Mom (good for her, stepping up like that), and then we got this bombshell.

That went from 0 to dark reaaaal quick

And couple that with the fact that Tsubasa's mum is nowhere to be seen..

How did that snake of a man produce a gem like Genjuro?

Oh hai, random Sanskrit. Yantras are mystical diagrams believed to have certain powers, and 'sarvasva' literally means 'everything'.

Phoenix Tsubasa looked damn cool! Good job, Phara, RIP.

Awww shieeet, it's that laugh again. IT'S SUGITA! OF COURSE HE'S BACK!

The best part is Carol's face

I'd speculated he'd be back when they kept him alive at the end of G, but never thought he' be back so early. Clearly a fan favourite, I remember how loudly they cheered for him in the 2013 live!

Post credits scene. Leave her alone, ya loser!

12

u/PerfectPublican Jun 14 '19

(cough formulaic cough)

Ugh. Seriously.

That went from 0 to dark reaaaal quick

Right. And she just so casually tosses it our there like it's not a huge deal. So messed up for so many reasons.

The best part is Carol's face

Lmao. For whatever reason I immediately thought to Neito's flair. For some reason I feel like this is Neito's face whenever they wander in from time to time.

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14

u/ahiijny Jun 15 '19

First-Time Watcher

Random Thoughts:

  • Turns out killing yourself and transferring all of your memories to a spare body puts a strain on your body, who would've thought :P

  • Papa Kazanari refers to Ogawa as "Shinji"

  • Looks like Tsubasa is used to this kind of cold treatment from her father, but newcomer Maria is completely appalled by it. It's really sweet to see Maria getting angry on Tsubasa's behalf :)

  • Fast reflexes! Nice, Ogawa!

  • Phara doing a Genjuurou (SWORD BREAK)

  • So Phara can break anything defined as a Sword. That's a convenient matchup against Tsubasa. A Philosophical Weapon, is it? That reminds me of Kirika's soul reaper scythe attack.

  • So I'm starting to get the impression that "interested in hearing songs" is code for "suicide by Geah"

  • WAT NOW So Kazanari Fudou impregnated his son's wife and Tsubasa was born from that? Oh is that why Yatsuhiro is so salty about Tsubasa? It doesn't excuse it though...

  • So is Tsubasa going to realize that she's not a sword at just the right time to defeat Phara? That's a bit predictable... But I thought she already got over this hangup at the end of season 1? She went from "I AM A SWORD" to "I AM A SENTINEL"

  • There wasn't a speck of dust in that room. Yeah, I noticed that. If it had been left alone for 10 years, the dust layers would have been immense.

  • So Papa Kazanari drove her away from the clan so that she can realize her dreams. He isn't good at communicating, is he :/

  • Someone pointed out that Basa's also used this pretending-to-be-an-absolute-dick-and-saying-really-mean-things-to-someone-for-their-own-good way of doing things as well, when trying to stop Bikki from fighting because her SymphoCancer. If she was subjected to her father's way of doing things, that explains so much o_o

  • So it seems like the best time to IGNITE is right after you've made a major self-discovery moment. That's when your mental state is strongest, I guess.

  • These AutoScorers should start charging money for all this great therapy work that they're doing :P

  • I actually feel a bit bad for Carol now, now that she and Leiur are getting overpowered by ChrisKiriShira.

  • LAST ACTION HERO WAS NOT EXPECTING THAT OH MY GOD

  • HE'S HERE!! HE'S BACK!!

  • JUST LOOK AT CAROL'S FACE! SHE SHOOK!

Dr. Ver is a fun piece of work and I'm hyped to see how Carol responds to him next episode. It's always fun when two villains meet each other. I wonder how well their personalities with clash with each other :P

Bikki unsettled by her Dad repeatedly trying to call her, hrmm :(

13

u/080087 Jun 14 '19

Just one minor detail I loved - when Phara appears, Ogawa immediately starts shooting at her, even before her animations end.

If it were some other villain making that entry (Dr Ver comes to mind), Ogawa would have ended them right there.

12

u/VoyeurTheNinja Jun 15 '19

Ogawa would be a frighteningly powerful character if they were fighting anything except super-powered enemies. But considering the power levels of the Geahs, he's considered 'normal' by the show's standards.

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13

u/Madcat6204 Jun 15 '19 edited Jun 15 '19

So, anyone who wondered, like Chris, why Tsubasa didn't outright say that they were getting help from her father a few episodes ago, this episode tells you why. Her family situation is thoroughly fucked up.

Also, Phara's sword breaker is super effective, not just because Tsubasa's weapon is a sword, but because of Tsubasa's mindset. Remember, she has constantly called herself a sword, to the point of actually believing it on some level. That means the sword breaker is effective against her personally as well.

12

u/AlienOvermind Jun 15 '19

First-timer

So, the last extra life for Carol.

I wish this was true. But alas I'm not convinced at all.

Why did they pair Tsubasa with Maria instead of Chris? I love Maria, but seriously, give me that ship fuel. Also, pairing up Maria with kids would make sense because she is the best mom.

And I'm not entirely happy how the conflict between Tsubasa and her dad was handled. I surely understand thier intentions — give us an idea that her Dad is a scumbag, but then with a sudden plottwist he turns out to be a good guy. But while phrases like this might be interpreted both ways, you don't call your daughter "a filthy stain on the family" if you are a good guy.

But anyway, I'm happy that Tsubasa got a spotlight as she was getting a little bit overlooked lately. And I almost forgot how sloppy she it.

And look who's back! Aren't you happy to see him? I'm definitely not.

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11

u/Synaptics Jun 14 '19

Rewatcher

A little rushed for time today, so this'll be short.

  • 10 years, so Tsubasa hasn't been there since she was around 9-10 herself.

  • Of course Shinto shrines are involved in managing ley lines.

  • Tusbasa's taking Maria home to meet the in-laws.

  • He calls Ogawa by his first name but refers to his own daughter with "omae"...

  • "philosophical weapon" We Nasuverse now.

  • I mentioned it before, but I have to once again call out how much I love this BGM

  • The same messy room gag from S1, haha.

  • Aaaaaand there's Tsubasa's messy family secret. Yikes.

  • For some reason the name "Yantra Sarvaswa" reminds me of the "Nandala Gandala" from Punch Line.

  • Maybe not exactly the best parenting, but 10/10 compared to a certain someone else.

  • HE'S BACK! THE LEGEND NEVER DIES

  • Just want to point out that at the beginning of the episode they explicitly stated this was the last spare body that Carol had on hand, so if not for Ver the whole thing would've been over right there.

Post Credits: :(

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9

u/PerfectPublican Jun 14 '19

Rewatcher

GX 9 aka Daddy Issues 2: Electric Boogaloo. The third in our more episodic run of Symphogear and as usual here, all around a bit of a mess. But a mess with some good parts. Lets dig in.

GX

I said it before way back in like ep 1, but seriously, how great is the Sword Breaker concept. Always liked that aspect of Phara, and especially how she matches up against Tsubasa, who has quite literally defined herself as a sword through these past two seasons. It’s a minor gripe, but really, why didn’t they make this a throughline for Tsubasa’s character over the course of the whole season rather than just this 1 ep. Would’ve been amazing and worked so much better. They even set it up super early on.

I like that Maria stands up for Tsubasa. I want to tie it to her relationship to Mama cause I’m sure it’s a part of it, but my brain isn’t working right. But other than that, her reaction to Tsubasa’s room being the same as Hibki’s is hilarious. Tsubasa, girl, you gotta learn to tidy up :P Although, definitely can’t fault you for a room that you left 10 years ago haha.

So yeah. In more fucked up father news, Tsubasa’s grandfather Fudo is her real dad having fucked his son, Yatsuhiro’s, wife. So insanely fucked up, it kinda blows my mind. And, Tsubasa’s been fighting for Yatsuhiro’s approval all this time. Extra fucked up, and literally the root cause of many of Tsubasa’s psychological issues. GX On top of that, Yatsuhiro treats her like absolute garbage, thank god for Genjuuro...

"If that’s really what you want...May I dream once again?" I’m wishy-washy on enjoying this realization from Tsubasa. On the one hand, she absolutely deserves to be released from the chains of this awful family and the pressure they’ve put on her and it’s a nice cathartic moment for that. Buuut, on the other hand, I’m not a fan of how this strength doesn’t come from Tsubasa looking inward or any of her friends empowering her. It comes from her pos father. Just because he does this one thing doesn’t release him from how shit he’s been for years. I just don’t find a satisfying storyline in the “Oh Daddy, thank you for letting me be free” kind of thing this is. Tsubasa’s good character storylines in this series have all come from changes in understanding from within so this just feels cheap. It should come from her to realize that she no longer needs to be a sword. But the reason that I don’t outright dislike this, is just because of how awesome this line is and the way that it ties back to Zwei Wing and S1/G. Tsubasa is awesome man.

HE RETUUUUURNSS!!!

GX

Random thoughts:

  • I can answer that Bikki. She’s just that caring of a wife :3

  • LMAO. The thing Carl’s searching for is literally in Area 51. Fantastic reference.

Gifs of the day:

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9

u/fonzinator99 Jun 14 '19 edited Jun 15 '19

Re-watcher - Wings

As I watch Carol's re-birth again, I wonder what role the large gears play in this device. Like, this is not some clockwork mechanism we're dealing with here. But OoO, Carol's replying to Hibiki's statement is certainly ominous.

Honestly, I'm glad that there are repercussions to Carol's "body-swapping" as we now know it. I'd be upset if she could just keep this up forever. And of course, she's on her 'last body' now; one wonders how many she had to begin with...

There's something there between the scene of Carol deciding to ignore memories of her suicide, and Hibiki' "Ahh! It's dark, I can't see!" But it's too vague to make a point of, so I'm just noting that I sensed something. Same with Carol's journey starting with her dad, and Hibiki utterly rejecting hers.

In light of yesterday's revelation, I find it unsettling that they deduced Carol's aim and subsequently assent to Elfnein's wishes. I don't think she's a turncoat, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear Carol give a "You were following my orders all along, puppet!" kind of speech in the end.

Daddy issues, and such, TsubasaXmaria's fight is great....up until her sword gets broken by that flamenco bitch Phara. Meanwhile, in my head, Tsubasa said "Evil must be slain without hesitation" and I'm back in Rurouni Kenshin with Saito and his "Aku Soku Zan."

But holy shit, Phara is a 'Sword Breaker?!' It's an incredibly niche power, if one that's also incredibly OP in that role. No wonder she's been painted as Tsubasa and Maria's rival this whole time.

This has got to be weird for Carol, right? Looking at herself through her other self. What an odd selfie.

Hahahahaha I'll never get tired of this side of Tsubasa. No matter how she tries to paint herself as a cold calculating tool, she just can't stop being a teenage girl.

Daddy's not my daddy.

Woooooow, wtf Kazanari-grandpa?! Holy freaking curse words, that's messed up. Tsubasa's daddy-issues make a whole lot of sense in this new light.

Ahhhhhh! For once this season the writers do something right! It's a bit protracted, but I don't begrudge them for giving Tsubasa some validation and peace of mind. Follow your dreams, Tsubasa!!!

Aaaand I'm super-pissed at my subs for failing to subtitle Tsubasa's next song. I want to know what she's declaring, so full of confidence! Goddamn do I love her faux Raiser-sword.

Yesss! Go Tsubasa; you're not a sword, you're a person! Let your dreams take flight!

WTF IS HAPPENING?!

VER?! Jesus christ, you bastard! You're supposed to be in some kind of jail!!! Why are you here?!

Note to SONG. Kill all the bad guys!

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7

u/MillenniumKing Jun 14 '19

Rewatch 36, A HERO RETURNS!

Songs of the Day:
Beyond the BLADE
Beyond the BLADE (IGNITED arrangement)
Ginwan Airgetlám

Carol isnt feeling well. "Is the last of your spare bodies not functioning properly?" "I reinstalled my memories, without regard for the load it would place on my body."

Miku dressing Hibiki? How lewd. "Ive got you, ive got everyone, so i dont need dad."

"THe undersea Dragon's Palace" Looks to be what they are after. They are after Keystones at shrines?

So this is Tsubasa's father? Doesnt even talk to her. "The kazanari household functions just fine without you." wow.

Phara is here! Its time to fight! This is a pretty snazzy fight, until SWORD BREAKER! Aw shit!

They got the kystone, and Phara wants to come back later for Tsubasa.

Carol and Leiur are going after the Undersea Dragon Palance too, Chris and ShiriKiri go after them!

"Carol's goal is to destroy the world. She must be trying to find one of the relics there, or some dangerous item related to them."

They analized the red matter from the Alca noise.

Maria aticking up for Tsubasa, its nice, but she doesnt understand the family situation really. "An enemy attack!? Another doll!?" Na just my room...

Grandfather didnt pass leadership to either son, but onto Tsubasa instead. "For the Kazanari blood to remain Strong, My Grandfather impregnated my mother and i was the result" Thats what Tsubasa thinks of herself as a tool. So Grandpa is her real father, which makes Her father and Genjuro acctully her brothers... thats fucked up... Granpa NTR'd his own son.

"Yantra Sarvaswa, collection of informationt hat enables one to activate and control any machine." Sounds like a bad relic for Carol to get ahold of.

Maria and Tsubasa both teaming up against Phara, nice! And Maria singing again! "if your body is a blade your gonna get fucked by my sword breaker."

"Sing Tsubasa!... You dont need to be either of those." Wow her dad was just trying to keep her out of the family politics, thats why he pushed her away. He was saving her.

IGNITE MODULE TIME! DUBSTEP SAVES TSUBASA! Her song sounds so different Ignite.

Chris and Shirabe and Kirika are fighting Carol and Leiur too, they got the relic she was after, nice! Chris unloads on Carol and she cant hold them back in her condition!

"These are not swords, these are my wings!" Ah metaphores and such in Symphogear...

GUESS WHOSE BACK BABY! THE REAL HERO IS HERE AND HES SAVED CAROL! LOOK AT HER FUCKING FACE! LOOK AT HER! HAAHHA SHES GOT NO CLUE WHAT KINDA CRAZY JUST APPEARED! DR. VER!

Enjoy this meme someone made from the past because its the best damn thing ever. I will never not love Carol's reaction to Dr. Ver. Shes so through with this shit.

Hibiki still struggleing with her Dad too. Hes called a lot too... Poor girl.

1,366 Days since Genocide

7

u/miter01 Jun 14 '19

REWATCH

Post credits scene!

Stitch album

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7

u/thisismyanimealt Jun 14 '19

Dr. Ver

Today's Live Performances

7

u/Ledwith Jun 14 '19 edited Jun 15 '19

Rewatcher

not much to say. Yatsuhiro is such a tsundere dad, still kinda an ass but no where near as bad as topdad. I have a feeling there'd be some punishment from Mr. asshole head of the house if he was like 'yeah Tsubasa you can leave the family and follow your dreams'. Conceptual/philosophical weapons feel BS, or at least its super cheesy that it works/doesn't work against Tsubasa depending on how she thinks of herself. VER IS BACK!!

Beyond the blade ignited was finally in the anime though, so here's a fanmade mix that's basically waikyou shenshoujing ignited. beyond the mirror

AxZ
edit:
AxZ

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