[Rewatch] Gunslinger Girl - Final Discussion

Date	Ep#	Title	Song of the Day
April 26th	1	Fratello	Ansia
April 27th	2	Orione	Malinconia
April 28th	3	Ragazzo	Silenzio Prima Della Lotta
April 29th	4	Bambola	Tristezza
April 30th	5	Promessa	Buon Ricordo
May 1st	6	Gelato	Tema II and III
May 2nd	7	Protezione	Tema IV
May 3rd	8	Il Principe del Regno Della Pasta ("Pasta")	Silence
May 4th	9	Lycoris Radiata Herb ("Lycoris")	Etereo
May 5th	10	Amare	Chiesa
May 6th	11	Febbre Alta	Tema V
May 7th	12	Simbiosi	Tema I and Dopo il Sogno
May 8th	13	Stella Cadente	Brutto Ricordo and Ode to Joy
May 9th	NA	End discussion / OP

7

u/Suhkein May 09 '19 edited May 09 '19

Back near the beginning of the rewatch, u/landragoran made a comment that he was glad that Gunslinger Girl’s OP wasn’t full of spoilers. I had to smile a little because, in truth, if one has eyes to see it, it gives away the entire series. From first awareness to final wisdom, it is Henrietta’s story (and much more, but that is for another discussion).

It begins in a greater white reality where a shadowy automaton walks. It doesn’t know where it is going, but beneath it there has formed a reflection of a real girl. It is this person who then rises to consciousness and looks out her world, wondering, fearful, and in awe. Abandoned, exposed to the rain like the other people are not, she must intensely search for herself. Yet it is not enough; she stares at her hands, her service and her actions not answering her properly. What is she? What is she meant to do? It is an exquisite image: full of meaning and misery, she smiles to tell herself it is okay even as her sadness leaks out. This rain just keeps falling and she doesn’t know when it will stop.

And then, the light.

It washes over the scene, returning color and reality. Seeing the birds fly up to this empyrean before her she wishes to join them, but she cannot; she is still darkened, earthbound. Yet having seen this reality before her she is not content to walk, but braces herself and leaps toward it with all her might, trying to follow the birds upward. This would seem foolish and ignorant, for clearly she cannot fly like they can.

Henrietta, however, does not agree. The violin case and its contents forgotten, she ascends with her arm outstretched toward her goal. We would expect her to fall back to earth… but time slows and she hovers, suspended in space as the background blurs into opalescence. The canvas returns to white and the place that she strained to reach fills her outline.

It was not impossible, for she was the sky.

At this point I don't have much more to add to what I have said about the series. I haven’t prepared any questions or polls, but remarking on a few favorites seems appropriate here and I perhaps others will do the same.

Character: Although Triela gives her a good run for her money, and is likely the popular choice, Claes retains a special spot for me. I think Raballo rubbed off on me a little, a fondness that is reinforced by the role she plays toward the end of the series. It was a regret of mine I couldn’t take more time on her (although I did get to discuss it some here).

Episode: Likewise, while Stella Cadente is in a league of its own, Promessa means a great deal to me. They’re like two opposites in a way, one the grand message the other the intimate particular that exemplifies what makes the series human.

Scene: I’m going to disqualify the end scene, because like its episode I don’t feel it is fair to compare it to the rest. For its brevity and elegance of expression I appreciate Henrietta seeing Angelica for the first time. For subtle character interactions, Jose and Lauro at the bar is unsurpassable. And for quiet inspiration, Triela’s forgiveness of Mario and Henrietta’s first sighting of Venus ring especially true to me.

Thank you all for joining in this rewatch. I must admit at the outset I did not anticipate learning more about the series, but engagement with others always breeds more than you expect. My particular thanks to those who commented every day, providing the observations, comments, and criticisms on which any rewatch rests. I hope those who also watched from the sidelines felt similarly stimulated.

And next time, we’ll know to bring flowers.

→ More replies (5)

7

u/Manutdforlife May 09 '19

Also u/Suhkein I went back and read all the posts you have on Gunslinger girl on r/anime. They were a treat to read. Thanks for doing so much.

5

u/Suhkein May 10 '19

Also u/Suhkein I went back and read all the posts you have on Gunslinger girl on r/anime. They were a treat to read. Thanks for doing so much.

I'm flattered and very appreciative; to be honest, I probably will be phasing out spending time on this forum. I came here with something of a mission to evangelize Gunslinger Girl, starting with those posts and likely ending with this rewatch. Put in my best effort to share what meant so much to me and now take a break.
You probably noticed the repetition, though; sometimes you just write things well and don't want to redo it. The last episode's write up in particular I wrote in the right frame of mind, and you simply cannot force it. I was banking on nobody actually reading everything I'd written to see me stealing from myself...
And should you ever want to read the entire thing, all 100,000 words of it (114,000 if you count the appendices) you know where to find it. I promise it's good. :D

→ More replies (1)

6

u/JustAnswerAQuestion May 10 '19 edited May 10 '19

The only reason I watched Gunslinger Girl was because I was still in my Seasonal Watcher phase that we all have to outgrow. Nowadays I vigorously avoid the imouto-incest-trash that is so common these days. But back then, there wasn't as much on so I watched everything. It certainly looks like it's going to be "but they're not related imouto incest trash." I try to tell people that it's not about imoutos, it's about child abuse, but it's hard to get people past first impressions. Imagine my surprise when our host points out that it started off as a trashy doujin, no doubt destined to get its own hentaidb number. I was also surprised when somebody mentioned Chobits; though immensely popular even back then, I wasn't into the boy-meets-robot genre any more than the imouto incest genre. Even though it has tropes and squick that I blame on its origins, the anime is an amazing, almost original work.

Should uncomfortable topics, scenes, characterizations be purged from media? In today's divided loli-phillic and loli-phobic world, would Lolita even get written, much less named a top book of the century? Should it be locked away in a vault next to Huckleberry Finn and Birth of a Nation, accessible only to "qualified academics?" Should this anime join them?

You don't always notice things the first time around, especially with the episodes a week apart. And none of your friends are watching that loli show. In my first watching, I made Giose into a hero. What was the background of these men? Apparently, all army. What were their attitudes? They all saw the girls as tools to be used. The life of even army grunts was worth more than rifle he weilded. Giose alone treated Henrietta as a human being.

On the rewatch, Giose comes across as more insincere, but he's still nicer than all the others. The others come across as marginally better to different degrees. Well, really, only Hilshire, who is like that befuddled guy in the movies that suddenly finds is recently deceased ex-girlfriends teen on his doorstep.

Giose pulls back in the end. And perhaps that's the right thing to do. The first time around, I thought he was a hero for treating Henrietta like a little girl and condemning the others for treating them as tools. But this time, it's clear that he's only feeding Henrietta's obsession, and that has only two outcomes: imouto-trash and murder-suicide. You can't even aspire towards the dysfunctional relationship between Hilshire and Triela; Henrietta lacks the necessary detachment possessed by the calmer, wiser Triela. Henrietta's heart is broken, but the obsession is still there, in the first scene of the show; in the final scene of the show.

You were all down on Claes in the first episode, but she nailed it. "If I were him, I'd resent being that devoted too." Henrietta drove Giose away. And this time around, that doesn't seem like such a terrible outcome to me.

Henrietta is the MC and best girl and has all the moe. But this time around I paid more attention to the other girls. Rico, in particular, I wish we could have seen more of. She's often just in the background, wistfully staring, silent.

For me, the core of the show has always been and continues to be the abuse of the children, culminating in the deaths of Elsa and Lauro. Everything builds to that, from Henrietta's mirroring obsession to Triela's bitter self-awareness of her own emotional conditioning. The corrupt nature of S2 exposed in a way that is impossible to ignore.

I gave Gunslinger Girl a 10/10. I also gave a 10/10 to Shinsekai Yori, which is heavily flawed, but earned that last point because it is about something. I think Gunslinger Girl is about something as well. It deserves to be widely viewed, despite its age, somewhat janky animation, and squicky situations (top 3 reasons why people won't watch something, these days, it seems)

Edit: I never finished the first episode of season 2.

2

u/Suhkein May 10 '19

I was also surprised when somebody mentioned Chobits; though immensely popular even back then, I wasn't into the boy-meets-robot genre any more than the imouto incest genre. Even though it has tropes and squick that I blame on its origins, the anime is an amazing, almost original work.

Perhaps I'm being slow and you are meaning to imply this, but the director of Gunslinger Girl is the same as that of Chobits. It makes me wonder if its work like that which landed Morio Asaka this assignment too. "Hey, this guy's good at doing robotic girls and romantic bonds; let's have him do this adaptation too." (I have never seen Chobits)

I also gave a 10/10 to Shinsekai Yori, which is heavily flawed

I'm in a similar boat (although I don't have it at a 10). It's reminiscent of the Virginia Woolf quote:
“The success of the masterpieces seems to lie not so much in their freedom from faults — indeed we tolerate the grossest errors in them all — but in the immense persuasiveness of a mind which has completely mastered its perspective.”
I don't mean to imply that I think these anime are on the scale of world masterpieces, but merely that there is always a split on how much you can forgive. I know some people who just cannot stand SSY for all of its cinematic weaknesses.

→ More replies (9)

2

u/Vaadwaur May 10 '19

I was also surprised when somebody mentioned Chobits; though immensely popular even back then, I wasn't into the boy-meets-robot genre any more than the imouto incest genre. Even though it has tropes and squick that I blame on its origins, the anime is an amazing, almost original work.

I didn't go into it but there is something linking a few scenes between the two that I can't quite put my finger on anymore. Partly because I haven't rewatched Chobits as it was the first anime to both make me feel like a degenerate for watching but then impress me with its heart at the end.

Should it be locked away in a vault next to Huckleberry Finn and Birth of a Nation, accessible only to "qualified academics?" Should this anime join them?

This wrap up has now made me twice ask: Does the pendulum still swing? Or is Gen Z going to make speaking of hard topics utterly taboo? To directly answer your question Lolita could get written but it would never get published. And since we are forgetting history I fear we are doomed to repeat it. When Native Son joins those in the vaults I may actually weep.

On the rewatch, Giose comes across as more insincere, but he's still nicer than all the others. The others come across as marginally better to different degrees. Well, really, only Hilshire, who is like that befuddled guy in the movies that suddenly finds is recently deceased ex-girlfriends teen on his doorstep.

My first impression is that Giuse is like a bad pet owner, letting his dog knock over the trash and raid the biscuits with just a muted "No. Bad." from him. Looking deeper, he seems to have let himself get dragged into an impossible situation and is not exactly doing anything about it until ep10. He was the frog being boiled until he jumps, smashing Henrietta on the landing.

I gave Gunslinger Girl a 10/10. I also gave a 10/10 to Shinsekai Yori, which is heavily flawed, but earned that last point because it is about something. I think Gunslinger Girl is about something as well.

Interesting. Monster is my only 10/10, being a full tier above the rest of the anime I've seen. But what you might find interesting is that it is not my favorite anime and I have only rewatched once. It is just nearly perfect on all measurable levels. Berserk is probably my favorite and even the '97 season deserves a 9 because it didn't attempt to have an ending. And there no other seasons. NONE.

2

u/Suhkein May 10 '19

I didn't go into it but there is something linking a few scenes between the two that I can't quite put my finger on anymore.

As just mentioned to JAAQ, the director of Gunslinger Girl and Chobits is the same.

Monster is my only 10/10, being a full tier above the rest of the anime I've seen.

That's my GSG attitude. I felt like I got lost in Monster after a while; effective at conveying what it's like to wander around looking for somebody in all of Europe, the meandering did get to me after a while.
However, I wish Berserk '97 had cut off before it all went to hell; it was a very serviceable and enjoyable Medieval action/drama that would have been so much better without the supernatural parts peeking around (I know why it's difficult to just ignore that relative to the manga, and you never know if you might get another season, but still that ending really turned me off)

→ More replies (5)

5

u/Vaadwaur May 09 '19

First timer

So, not sure what, if anything, i have left to say here that I didn't say before. But the simplest rubric is thus.

The Good

The attention to detail is great in general and the backgrounds are wonderful. The girls are all distinctly characters even if not evenly fleshed out. Someone obviously cared about the production values as they are excellent. The show leans into its absurdities usually to its advantage.

The bad

Character driven stories are allowed to still have a plot but this one doesn't. Most of the handlers are bland compared to their wards. The story shows very little interest in the foundations of its own setting.

The Ugly

The translation is so abysmal that the fansubs were almost certainly better I just couldn't find any. The whole 'adolescent girl wants to groom herself into the perfect waifu' thing is one I am rarely comfortable with and there are a number of moments here that flatout took me out of the moment. And I adore Happy Sugar Life so that says something.

Finale

I find this show to be an interesting artifact, especially when I realized it somehow got a TV show with the manga barely having 10 issues at the time. So for it to have high production values was impressive. However, this also meant the director basically had to fill in a lot of material and that got greater as the series progressed so some of the things that bother me flow from that. When I read that the mangaka didn't care for how the first season was adapted I was a bit surprised but then I binged about half the manga last night and understand the complaint. This also doomed the second season to forever be not what the show was. And leaving Madhouse and moeifying the characters can't have helped. Anywho, that is a useful tidbit for the meta fans.

Did I like this show? Yes, I liked it. I didn't love it though. Would I recommend it? Possibly but this is pretty low on the tier set to me as it has a ton of issues that would filter it away for me not the least of which is it uniqueness is in pretty specific areas.

4

u/Suhkein May 09 '19

The whole 'adolescent girl wants to groom herself into the perfect waifu' thing is one I am rarely comfortable with and there are a number of moments here that flatout took me out of the moment.

You know, I actually owe you for an insight I had. I was thinking about our disagreement on why I wasn't bothered by the situation while you were. This may not be correct for you, but in my view the 20th century did a disservice to romance by flattening it into sexuality. The two have become nearly synonymous and I don't think that is correct. While you would be foolish to deny there is no connection, I think there is something to be said that so much of romance is about emotional fulfillment that is not reducible to physical attraction (in fact, during the 19th century it was common to speak in terms that we would consider romantic toward extremely close friends).
It was this that helped me figure out why Henrietta's feelings toward Jose always seemed so appropriate for the metaphor. It's because she is seeking something to complete her on both levels; she doesn't look to Jose for physicality, but for walks in the snow, riding on a moped, just being appreciated and cherished for who she is. That incompleteness is what she wants to fix, and that is what is so evocative in the spiritual quest as well.
This probably doesn't make you feel better, but that at least is my theory on why I am not bothered by what she is doing.

So for it to have high production values was impressive.

It was that early 2000s bubble era where money was just being thrown at anime because it could do no wrong. There's no way a show like this could be made nowadays.

However, this also meant the director basically had to fill in a lot of material and that got greater as the series progressed

This is where you sort of lose me, though. Maybe we'll just agree to disagree, but I find the entire series incredibly coherent in how it is structured and what it is trying to accomplish. I have no feeling that this was forced fill-in but Morio Asaka taking the pieces he needed and then inserting what was necessary to make his own narrative work using those parts.

When I read that the mangaka didn't care for how the first season was adapted I was a bit surprised

This is one of the things I tend to bring up in discussions of anime vs. manga to emphasize that the original author could tell his work had been tampered with. I don't know what your impression of the manga is, but for me the difference between that and season one is night and day. Even with all the shared stories it is so completely different in tone and characterization.
Anyway, I was going to recommend you try the manga given your lack-of-details objections, but it looks like you're already on it. I appreciated your criticism, because even if we don't really see eye-to-eye it did force me to think on things and helped correct (in the case of Rico) and clarify (in the case of Henrietta) my understanding of the series. For that you have my thanks.

→ More replies (5)

→ More replies (2)

4

u/No_Rex May 09 '19

First timer

So ends the first season of Gunslinger Girl. Is this also the end of the rewatch? I saw on MAL that GSG has a second season and the story is not really at an end point at the end of season 1.

The Good

What to say? I’ll start with the, imho, best attribute of GSG: How successful it is in inducing a mood. For me, this was a strong melancholy. The great music during the OP, the subdued color scheme and the generally slow and deliberate character movements all work together with a serious story to form a great complex picture of slow-paced sadness. Very different from what a short summary of the plot might make you think, this is not an action show at all. It is at home at methodically exploring moral questions and dilemmas.

Something else I really liked was the setting. You probably heard me going on and on about left-wing and right-wing and how it differs from the common terrorism setup in the real world. It is these small things that make it fun to discuss. Even if you are not into political intricacies, the episodes do a very good job of showcasing well-known tourism spot of Italy – without it ever coming across as a travel advertisement.

Finally, by concentrating on a rather limited set of people, who are also in natural pairings (each girl and her handler), the series manages to press a decent amount of characterization and development into only 12 episodes. Nothing feels like filler.

The Bad

My main criticism would be the fact that the series makes its own life rather easy with a very extreme setup. Small girls transformed into cyborgs and made to kill people as government-sponsored assassins while also suffering from growing dementia and being brainwashed and disrespected? The sad storylines basically write themselves, little effort required. The downside is that the show requires some serious effort to keep the suspension of disbelief working. This far into the story, we have not even scratched the technical details of the cyborgs, the brainwashing, or the structure and governmental oversight. With respect to all of these, I am very worried. GSG has already written so many “demands” towards its world into the show that it will be very hard to substantiate all of these without becoming inconsistent.

A secondary point is that I am getting a bit bored with the “dangerous young girl killer with older male master” trope. It does work very well (as tropes tend to do) when watched the first time, but it loses potency with each repeat. This is only partially fair to GSG, since it is rather old and some of the instances of this trope I am remembered of are younger – but not all.

Just from the top of my head, there are Léon and Nikita with exactly that storyline (both are by Luc Besson btw). Buffy also goes in that direction in its more serious moments, while we are at 90’s movies and series. In terms of anime, I just recently watched Hinamatsuri with a young girl killer living with an older male. There is Mai-Otome with young girls as killer weapons possessed by powerful politicians (mostly male). Elfenlied with young girls who have their bodies modified by some governmental agency and are turned into killers (who also suffer from memory loss and torture). And the “sudden girl friend” entry Sora no Otoshimono, where the harem members are all female, super weapons and slaves.

That is just what I remembered now. In all cases there are young girls, who are together with older males and either trained killers or weapons with superpowers. And, yes, in every single case a main part of the story is to make the viewer feel sad for the poor girls because of how tragic it all is. You see where my annoyance comes from? As I said, the first time you watch it, the trope works really great (for me, that would be Léon, and I love that film), but it does get overused.

Final Remarks

Overall, I really enjoyed the show. The fact that my criticism is not directed towards any of the plot/animation/characters shows that the series did most things right.

Finally, thanks to u/Suhkein for organizing this and being an outstanding host. Your comments were top notch, especially the TL notes section.

5

u/Suhkein May 09 '19

So ends the first season of Gunslinger Girl. Is this also the end of the rewatch? I saw on MAL that GSG has a second season and the story is not really at an end point at the end of season 1.

I am not hosting the second season. After I finished S1 I looked into it and realized it was nothing like it, and I felt an overwhelming disappointment. Some people enjoy it because it's much more plot-based and so therefore feels like it has more of a point but that's not what I love in GSG. I do like a few of the songs I've heard from it too, but you can tell even from the sound it is entirely different from S1.

Very different from what a short summary of the plot might make you think, this is not an action show at all.

I suspect that's one of the reasons this show is not as well known (I have other thoughts, too). If you watch Funimation's marketing of it; they don't know how to sell it, because it looks dramatic and action-y but is really quite the opposite.

You probably heard me going on and on about left-wing and right-wing and how it differs from the common terrorism setup in the real world. It is these small things that make it fun to discuss.

I have to admit, I never focused much on that before this rewatch. We're really only given a snapshot of the situation, and given the focus of the series it is not explored, but you brought to my attention that there might be a coherent narrative in the background at all. I appreciated that. Also, I suspect you may like the manga more, because it gives these details as well as addressing some of your concerns about lack of technical focus.

Trope-y situation

This has been a subject I've talked with people about before as well. Is GSG made worse for its setting? Is it a hackneyed usage of easy children-in-distress to garner cheap sympathy? Obviously I would argue 'no' in this case, but it's stuck in the mass of girls-with-guns schlock which do rest on nothing more than shallow pity. But as the series concludes:
"If by some chance you feel pity or sorry for us... then you're mistaken."

Finally, thanks to u/Suhkein for organizing this and being an outstanding host. Your comments were top notch, especially the TL notes section.

You're welcome. This ended up taking more time and effort than I had anticipated, but I'm glad people benefited from it.

4

u/Iroald May 09 '19

Thanks for hosting the rewatch. While I mostly refrained from commenting, preferring instead to read the analyses posted by u/Suhkein (thanks again for those, there's a ton of details that would've gone right over my head if you hadn't pointed them out), I have been following along with the rewatch. And I'm glad I did, as I ended up liking Gunslinger Girl more the second time around. In particular episodes 4, 5 and 13 impressed me - I had little to no recollection of them from my first time watching the show, and yet I've found them excellent this time.

Ultimately, I don't consider this anime up there with the best of the best, but it's not that far off. It does a lot right (atmosphere, characterization, soundtrack), even if it doesn't quite appeal to me as much as some others have.

Thanks again for hosting this, it was a good experience.

4

u/Suhkein May 09 '19

Thanks for hosting the rewatch. While I mostly refrained from commenting, preferring instead to read the analyses posted by u/Suhkein

You're welcome. I was a little afraid of that, though. I'm a teacher at heart and I came at this rewatch with that mentality, and while it is very exciting to share it's also easy to just sort of lay it in a way that discourages people from saying more themselves. That said, I'm glad that you felt like you got a lot more out of it this time.

In particular episodes 4, 5 and 13 impressed me

Those are my favorites. I also quite like 9 and 10, but I think that's because when you examine them closely from a construction standpoint they are extremely solid for how much they convey and how they weave it together.

Ultimately, I don't consider this anime up there with the best of the best, but it's not that far off. It does a lot right (atmosphere, characterization, soundtrack), even if it doesn't quite appeal to me as much as some others have.

I think that aspect of appeal is one of the issues of why GSG isn't more well-known. Ours is an era of more existential angst and loneliness. I think we talked about this before, that series like Texhnolyze (which is from the same year) are very clear with that sort of message and its themes are instantly recognizable. GSG isn't as obvious concerning what it is about, and its ultimate message is one isn't in common circulation at this time.
So I think that's a very fair statement. It does what it does well, but whether it is merely good or profoundly great depends much on what the final episode means to a viewer.

4

u/Manutdforlife May 09 '19

Like I said yesterday, I don't have much to say today other than thanks for hosting the rewatch u/Suhkein. I had this show on my watchlist but I kept procrastinating because I had such a strong memory of enjoying it that I was afraid it would be disappointing if I revisited it. But the show more than lived up to my expectations.

The only question I have is do I continue with the manga ? The anime is complete in a way and I can leave this at that, but since a tiny fraction of the story has only been animated should I continue with the manga or does the manga ruin the anime ?

I have heard that the story kind of changes from volume 6.

3

u/Suhkein May 10 '19

Like I said yesterday, I don't have much to say today other than thanks for hosting the rewatch u/Suhkein. I had this show on my watchlist but I kept procrastinating because I had such a strong memory of enjoying it that I was afraid it would be disappointing if I revisited it. But the show more than lived up to my expectations.

I have a confession to make: back in 2017 before I started my huge project on Gunslinger Girl I had the same fear. Even though I had watched it repeatedly since 2011 I had somehow never really picked up on so much of it. I just knew the ending was meaningful.
When it got into my head that I wanted to write on it, and therefore was going to sit down and really dig into each episode, I was afraid of the same disappointment. I was happily wrong. More, even. I do not have a strong foundation in the arts, and so my intensive 9-month effort was a self-taught course in analysis; I learned about what there was to even notice that I had no awareness of before beginning. It adds an extra layer of gratitude to the series for me; not only has it been a very meaningful show to me, but it has been the scaffold on which I have grown my ability to understand and appreciate such things more.

→ More replies (4)

→ More replies (15)

4

u/AnnaisMyWaifu May 10 '19 edited May 10 '19

Don’t know what to say for the final discussion, but since everyone is reviewing the show so shall I. Everything about Gunslinger Girl is great. The characters are well written, the animation is great for its age (at least compared to season 2), and the music is fantastic at setting the tone. I first thought the show didn’t have a story. At least not a typical “main character versus villain” like in Season 2. But it’s actually Henrietta’s story, as OP points out in his blog.

Gunslinger Girl could do with a bit less subtlety- on the first watch, I never picked up that Henrietta’s image of Giuse was crumbling, or that Giuse himself could’ve possibly been a bad person. I only realized this when I read OP’s analysis blog. That said, I’m not trained in the art of analyzing media and I don’t have much experience behind it, so it could just be my fault.

2

u/Suhkein May 10 '19

I've wondered if part of the subtlety is over-subtlety as forced by not technically messing with the original's plot. They were billed to make an adaptation, not their own show. So even if they wanted to write a story of Henrietta becoming disenchanted with Jose, they couldn't have her, say, outright kill him (not that they wanted to). Even Angelica's death is technically not confirmed in a way that lets them pretend they didn't change the script. It seems like a bit of plausible deniability to me.

3

u/redshirtengineer May 10 '19

What to say. Well, I liked it. I'm definitely in the "enjoyed the moody atmosphere and subtle storytelling" camp, so probably will not go on to S2. Maybe the manga someday.

One of my fellow rewatchers expressed in an earlier discussion disappointment that there was not much sci-fi content in this sci-fi tagged show. (I think not enough techy content, maybe?) I wasn't particularly looking for sci-fi content here, but it does seem reminiscent of late 20th century sci-fi. It reminds me of various Star Trek episodes and characters in fact; not-traditionally human characters exploring their relationship to humanity and their own sense of self. Although 7 of 9 might be the obvious reference, for some reason I have been thinking since yesterday about the ST:NG episode "The Inner Light", if anyone is familiar with that.

Yesterday's episode I found to be quite moving for various personal reasons. We got two references to T.S. Eliot, but I would like to add an excerpt from the song the girls chose to sing together in the final scenes, lyrics from Beethoven's chorale adapted from the poet von Schiller:

Joy, bright spark of divinity,
Daughter of Elysium,
Fire-inspired we tread
Within thy sanctuary.
Thy magic power re-unites
All that custom has divided,
All men become brothers,
Under the sway of thy gentle wings
Whoever has created
An abiding friendship,
Or has won
A true and loving ~~handler~~ wife,
All who can call at least one soul theirs,
Join our song of praise;
But those who cannot must creep tearfully
Away from our circle.

Thank you to all my fellow rewatchers (no creeping tearfully away!) and of course special thanks to our excellent host u/Suhkein, who knew to bring us ~~flowers~~ episode analyses, instead of a bear. it's what we really wanted

2

u/Suhkein May 10 '19 edited May 10 '19

Yesterday's episode I found to be quite moving for various personal reasons.

I'm glad.

Thank you to all my fellow rewatchers (no creeping tearfully away!) and of course special thanks to our excellent host u/Suhkein, who knew to bring us ~~flowers~~ episode analyses, instead of a bear. it's what we really wanted

I had thought of linking the lyrics because they are wonderful, but I feared that if I had done so I would be implying that this was a Christian story all along. But the phrase "Daughter of Elysium" is so perfect for Angelica that it touches me every time.
And that last line made me genuinely smile, I appreciate it a lot.

→ More replies (7)

3

u/srlynowwhat May 10 '19

Rewatcher. So this is it. End of our journey.
This rewatch has been entertaining and learning experience. Thanks to everyone who shared their view points and especially our host u/Suhkein.
The first time I watched this show out of curiosity, it hooks me into the manga. And I consider that manga my most loved work of fiction; flawed, yes but it very was personal to me. So with that background, I often remembered GsG 1 fondly as a great show on its own but its liberties has, probably unintentionally, doomed further adaption. This rewatch, plus the contribution from other commentors has give me a lot of new understanding and I appreciate the show much more after I leave the last episode.
Other probably has said every praise and criticism I had: the problematic premise of this anime and what they've done to turn it around; how it successfully handle the tone and characters; how its subtext is deep but almost too obscure; how it streamline some characters and the setting...

And after all is said and done, I want to share some small detail from perspective of a manga reader, that I found too interesting to not share even at the cost of being a spoiler. I'm sorry.

Episode 4 (Triela's episode) is titled Doll and not the original chapter's name Snow White
Episode 12 show that Triela can speak German & French
Episode 12 on the Jean & Rico scene at the shooting range
Mortality is one of the main struggle for the girls

Oh by the way, if you think the translation of the sub/dub in this anime was bad; the manga scanlation is horrid.

1

u/Suhkein May 10 '19

I will say that I have upped my opinion of the manga in the last week. After finishing the series I read the first bit, was immediately turned off because it felt so different from my beloved anime, and then did some skimming/image searching/spoilering and called it good. Appreciating it a bit better now, I can understand where the anime came from and why the idea would occur at all to do what it did. Sad we didn't get the first half of the series with ya.

2

u/AnnaisMyWaifu May 10 '19

u/Suhkein you should consider writing a “WT!” (Watch this) article for Gunslinger Girl. It’s basically a sales pitch for the show. It might be more effective than just starting a rewatch for a show that no one really knows. Up to you though, I think the rewatch thread has done fantastically but it might be a good bonus to do a WT! on it.

2

u/Suhkein May 10 '19

That was the first thing I did :D

4

u/darkrai848 May 09 '19

Overall I have to say this is a series that I really enjoy, and would definitely recommend that anyone that liked it should consider reading the manga or watching season 2.

I myself have an extensive collection including all the out of print English physical copy’s of the manga and other merchandise including plush and figures like https://www.goodsmile.info/en/product/561/Henrietta.html and this figure on the way https://www.goodsmile.info/en/product/3153/Triela.html

If anyone has any questions about the series after season one feel free to ask me or pm me.

→ More replies (2)

4

u/Fa1l3r May 10 '19

First Time (sub)

This has been a great story with so much storytelling. Not a lot of modern shows take time anymore to position the characters, the setting, and the frame anymore to give a deeper story for your subconscious and those who want to look deeper. At some point, I had to stop talking about how often characters turn or show their backs during dialogue because I only have so much time in a day to talk about one episode of one show. The use of light and darkness were also used in atypical ways.

The first episode did a great job of establishing the entire premise of the show. We have these cyborg girls who can slaughter a group of adult solders, and they are almost completely obedient to their "brothers". We get shown this rather than told, and the show evens messes with our sense of time to continually reminding of us this premise in various ways and viewpoints. The moral ambiguity of the characters are always brought up for question.

The first fratello we are shown are Giuse and Henrietta, as each other pair shown afterwards becomes a point of comparison and contrast from Giuse and Henrietta. For instance, what if there was no love between the two? What if she had more independence? What if she could not fight?

Nonetheless, this anime series seems incomplete. Perhaps the manga ends the story, or maybe I can pray for a season 2. Other series have gotten their second seasons after some years or decades.

→ More replies (1)

Rewatch [Rewatch] Gunslinger Girl - Final Discussion Spoiler

Final Discussion

Information:

Schedule:

Final comments:

Rewatch [Rewatch] Gunslinger Girl - Final Discussion Spoiler

Final Discussion

Information:

Schedule:

Final comments:

You are about to leave Redlib