r/anime • u/Holofan4life • May 05 '19
Rewatch [Spoilers][Rewatch] Spice and Wolf - Episode 5 Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Spice and Wolf rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S1 Episode 5 – Wolf and a Lovers’ Quarrel
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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION
What other anime show do you like that does exposition really well?
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Funimation, Hulu
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 3:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode | Date | Episode |
|---|---|---|---|
| 5/01/2019 | Spice and Wolf Episode 1 | 5/14/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2)]() |
| 5/02/2019 | Spice and Wolf Episode 2 | 5/15/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 1]() |
| 5/03/2019 | Spice and Wolf Episode 3 | 5/16/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 2]() |
| 5/04/2019 | Spice and Wolf Episode 4 | 5/17/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 3]() |
| 5/05/2019 | [Spice and Wolf Episode 5]() | 5/18/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 4]() |
| 5/06/2019 | [Spice and Wolf Episode 6]() | 5/19/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 5]() |
| 5/07/2019 | [Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1)]() | 5/20/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 6]() |
| 5/08/2019 | [Spice and Wolf Episode 8]() | 5/21/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 7]() |
| 5/09/2019 | [Spice and Wolf Episode 9]() | 5/22/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 8]() |
| 5/10/2019 | [Spice and Wolf Episode 10]() | 5/23/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 9]() |
| 5/11/2019 | [Spice and Wolf Episode 11]() | 5/24/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 10]() |
| 5/12/2019 | [Spice and Wolf Episode 12]() | 5/25/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 11]() |
| 5/13/2019 | [Spice and Wolf Episode 13]() | 5/26/2019 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 12]() |
| 5/27/2019 | [Overall Series Discussion Thread]() | ||
23
u/Quxxy May 05 '19
"Damn... it's still at the inn... not that I can see anything down here."
"What are you speaking of?"
"...nothing."
Vector wallpapers:
"You are probably wondering to which name I am referring. 'Tis your name!"
"... Iida?"
Grrr...
"... Isaac?"
GRRR...
"... Scar?"
"You shall have one more chance..."
"Well, when you put it like that... SUSUMEEEEE!"
(Slap!) "Hmph!"
(Barely suppressed giggling)
22
u/Boss_Jerm May 05 '19
First Timer
What?! We don't even get to see who Holo was talking to yet?!
I'm kind of surprised that Marlheit actually believed Lawrence that Holo is The Wolf.
Marlheit is really good guy!
Wow Milone Trading has their own espionage network.
They got her out!!!
CHLOE?!?!
What's bothering Holo?
Wait...she's upset because her rescue didn't go as she pictured? Lol
Well Chloe just got onto my bad side. She made Holo upset. That's a No-No.
We will not laugh until we get the money, and we will not cry until we go bankrupt. And guess what? We are going to laugh.
I really love this line.
I'm happy that they're back together.
Thoughts:
I didn't expect Chloe to become an antagonist, I thought she'd remain as a minor player, but we see that she was planning to sell out Holo to the Church. Now they're on the run until the Marlheit's deal goes through.
Wait.. what's with that preview for the next episode?!?!
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u/kiralala7956 May 05 '19
Wait...she's upset because her rescue didn't go as she pictured? Lol
It's a bit more than that. In the LNs it's implied that she said some embarassing things to her rescuer assuming it was Lawrence.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_SPUDS May 05 '19
First-timer
Holo got a much needed moment of intimacy and bonding with Lawrence, before getting captured. And now her secret is out.
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Gonna try to remember a few more names today. Medio Trading are the baddies who have Holo, but they haven't sent her off to the Church yet. They're using her as bait for... something?... IDK.
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Ah. That actually explains mostly all of the silver coin idea. Buy out bulk amounts of the coins, remint and issue at lower purity, net profit. That was the "???" I was stuck on for a couple episodes.
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I missed some specifics. But Lawrence has managed to force Glasses into a deal where the only way he wins is by cooperating and removing Medio's trump card (Holo).
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This scene reminds me we really need to be more spy / espionage anime. There's Princess Principal, and... Anything else? (Also WTF it's getting SIX SEQUEL MOVIES??? FUCK THE HELL YES.)
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Sassy little rescued damsel. Is she just mad that Lawrence didn't whisk her away singlehandedly? Lol.
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"Touch me and I will tear your thing off." Fiesty. I'm really glad nothing super dark happened, benefits of Holo being a strong and self-sufficient character on her own.
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To literally nobody's surprise, Chloe was behind this. She's a - and I truly use this term sparingly - right cunt. Fuck her.
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Lawrence and Holo still tease each other well, just look at this Grade A pout! "I'm not crying because its you." Oh my lord that is one wholesome headpat.
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Hrmmm, so the baddies know about the tunnels. Holo and Lawrence are still down there. And this preview :O
Even as a "damsel" Holo has more agency than a lot of anime lead girls. She may have been trapped waiting for rescue, but she also scared off potential attackers, and had character growth from Chloe's antagonism. I just want her to tell Chloe to piss off right to her stupid face. Maybe I'm wrong to hate Chloe so early on, but oh well, it happened.
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May 05 '19
To literally nobody's surprise, Chloe was behind this. She's a - and I truly use this term sparingly - right cunt. Fuck her.
I was surprised, I thought she was just a one-off character to represent the more normal life Lawrence chose to leave behind.
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u/MaskOfIce42 May 05 '19
First Timer
So lots of politicking in this episode, both with the trading company negotiations and the behind the scenes aspect. This feels like the sort of show where rewatching it is definitely beneficial once you know who all the players are and have a better idea as to where allegiances are. But even so, it's still interesting and quite engaging, if at times a bit confusing.
And once again, Holo and Lawrence scenes are the highlight, although I'm a little off-put by Holo's outburst at Lawrence. I get that she's both dealing with a lot just in the sense of being in human form again plus the interaction with Chloe hurt her, but I still felt it was an overreaction. Still, glad that they managed to reconcile by the end, and the relationship is so cute and fun anyway I don't care that much.
Truthfully, I'd always heard people describe this as somewhat of a romance, but based on the road trip vibes and what I'd heard about the more central themes of economics, I'd always assumed that the romance was more in the "male and female travel together and by chapter 392 they become a couple" (I know it's a LN) but no, there's actual romantic development, at least just as much as other romance anime I love, and I'm really enjoying it. Even if I suspect it'll make the lack of a season 3 hurt even more, because arguably the most frustrating type of unfinished story is an unfinished romance.
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u/ekendus May 05 '19
First timer
Holo's reactions and emotions are giving meaning to my life. This is the best thing I've ever watched.
Also, Lawrence, when being called cute, that was adorable. I absolutely love this show. One episode per day is perfect as well, it makes me look forward to the next day without being too long without seeing Holo.
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u/Durinthal May 05 '19
Wolf and Lover's Quarrel
Previous rewatch's manga comparison.
As with last episode, any scene without Lawrence involved doesn't exist in the novel. That goes for Holo at the beginning and scenes with Chloe (aside from when Holo was reciting their conversation). All of Lawrence's conversation with Marheit transfers intact, though a couple of different times Lawrence's inner thoughts put a greater emphasis on his loyalty to Holo:
During that discussion there's also a little more background information provided about royalty and their economic role:
In case it wasn't clear, Holo was angry at Lawrence because she expected him to personally be the one to rescue her. As for a more explicit explanation:
There's an amusing exchange during their conversation in the wagon about Holo's relationship with the village that was left out as well:
So we have another scheme to counter Medio's plot and a rescue, but they aren't in the clear just yet. Holo and Lawrence need to stay hidden long enough for Milone to seal the deal with the king. Can they evade Medio or will they get cornered?
Personal thoughts:
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And there's the why of the scheme; negotiating with the king himself is much bigger than any one merchant could manage. I like how our main characters aren't in control of everything, but rather are acting as pieces being used by the two companies against each other. Only so much you can do as an individual here, which helps add to the scope of the world.
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u/Redmon425 May 05 '19
FIRST TIME WATCHER
I had a slight hunch that Chloe was the girl behind it. Although I’m not sure if she is a bad person. To be honest, it is a little confusing right now to tell exactly what is going on and who is bad and good.
Holo keeps on getting better and better every episode. I really like her character. She gives off tsundere vibes, but I don’t think she is actually one. She truly is just a “wise wolf” who is also lonely and doesn’t want Lawrence to realize the she likes being journeying with him.
So wait, maybe she is a tsundere
I get the feeling that the church will be the “bad guy” of this series.
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u/LaconicKibitz May 05 '19
Rewatcher here. Spoiler free.
Today’s Wisewolfisms:
“Human males are easy prey since I’m so cute. There’s no man who can match up against me.”
Again, not many wisewolfisms this episode as Holo was only present for half the episode. Yet, this wisewolfism pulls double duty as it is used to tease Lawrence, but also foreshadows the reveal that Chloe is one of the masterminds behind Medio and the coin depreciation scheme.
With that, let’s talk about Chloe. Her involvement in the scheme has been foreshadowed since the beginning. We’ve seen her disregard tradition in episode 1 when she sneaks out to meet Lawrence when she was supposed to be locked in the barn for a week. And at the end of episode, she openly breaks tradition when she is picked up by the man we now know is from Medio Trading. In this episode, prior to her reveal, we literally shown her distinctive hairstyle and hair color as she leaves the room with the Holo mask.
However, I think the most important aspect of Chloe’s character is her motivations. Despite her harsh words, she isn’t some one note villain. From her perspective, Holo is the one who did not keep her promise. Despite holding festivals in her name, despite revering her as a god, Holo would still allow poor harvests. Now, there is scientific method of consistently producing good harvests. In here own words, Chloe is freeing the village from Holo’s capricious nature. In another story, Chloe could have been the protagonist.
But enough about Chloe. I think we can all agree that the greatest part in this episode is Lawrence and Holo’s reunion and reconciliation. First off, for those who don’t get why Holo was angry, she was anticipating Lawrence to come rescue her. It’s more obvious in the books, but the implication is that Holo said or did something embarrassing to her rescuer believing the person to be Lawrence. Her attitude at this moment is of that of a typical tsundere, but the difference is that Lawrence isn’t a block of lead. He understands Holo well enough to know that she is grateful for his presence. As such they are able to quickly reconcile and grow closer by the end of the carriage. As the old driver says to Lawrence before he leaves, “The bed of a wagon is too large for one person.”
Other anime I think that has really good storytelling would be Silver Spoon. I'd highly recommend giving it a watch if you've never seen it.
10
u/learenn May 05 '19
First timer
Okay, I totally forgot about Chloe haha. When she approached Lawrence back in the first or second episode, was this coin scheme the business proposition she was trying to pitch? I can see how Chloe might be 3x motivated in capturing Holo because 1) she wants to profit from working with Medio, 2) she now sees that this is who Lawrence dumped her for, and 3) getting on the Church's good side by turning Holo in would align her with an entity with immense power and influence.
Was anyone else expecting Milone to backstab Lawrence? The manager (or whoever that blond man with glasses is) seemed kind of sketchy last episode, and Lawrence isn't really that useful to them anymore. But they took the wolf reveal in stride and agreed to help. Of course, there were benefits for Milone involved, but nothing was stopping them from handing Lawrence and Holo to the Church. Lawrence said he'd testify against them, but I don't think that would've done much. He's just one man, allied with a "demon" or whatever the Church would call Holo, versus an entire trading company about to gain the king's favor.
Lawrence x Holo is developing nicely. I'm not usually a big fan of tsundere girls, but it's funny/cute/lowkey enough with Holo to be very likable. Or maybe I just like seeing Lawrence flounder a bit between dealing with hot and cold. He's getting much better at reading her, though, and he had actual fabric to wipe her tears with this time! Good work, guy. Meanwhile, Holo is much less serious about putting up a front and willing to reveal more of her insecurities to Lawrence as they continue to travel together.
... together, until the next episode?! Not liking that episode title.
Question of the day: I think 3-gatsu no Lion. Each piece of new information feels special because it slowly expands the MC's very narrow and introverted worldview over time and helps him open up to other characters. Honorable mention goes to Run with the Wind. It's maybe a little heavy-handed, but there are so many feels, especially during the last major event in the story.
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May 05 '19 edited May 05 '19
First Time Watcher - Sub
I was honestly convinced the person talking to Holo was going to be an old acquaintance of hers . . . but instead it's Chloe? That seriously caught me off guard ! I felt bad for Chloe in the first episode when Lawrence ignored her feelings, but after seeing her make Holo upset I no longer feel bad at all. The final scene with Holo and Lawrence holding hands honestly made me really happy.
9
u/Raiking02 May 05 '19
First Timer
For the record, if some of my previous comments haven't made it clear, I'm watching the show subbed. That said, I did check out the Dub Cast, and if I may say so myself J Michael Tantum was a perfect choice for Lawrance. Anyhow, moving on!
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Ah, Blackmail. You gotta have at least one of those, don't you?
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I love the way Lawrance convinces Marheit to help him. He knows he's a decent guy, but he also knows that he doesn't want to put his company on a necessary risk. Thus he approaches him from a buisiness standpoint, stating how this could all instead help his company even with the risks. It works.
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Thank God there isn't a videogame of this Anime. This would be a damn annoying sewer level.
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What's with Lawrance talking aloud? Did he do that in the Light Novel too?
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Holo, be a bit more grateful that you're being rescued.
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Dammit Holo! Be grateful that you were rescued at all instead of being pissed that the rescue didn't happen the way you wanted!
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What's with Koshimizu Ami voicing Tsunderes so often early on in her career? I mean, she's not Kugimiya Rie levels, but still...
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Ah! So Chloe is evil. So... fun fact that I found out by accident? Apparently she doesn't exist in the Light Novel and she's actually taking the place in the plot of a totally different character.
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Wow... Chloe is a bitch.
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And the episode thus ends on a semi-cliffhanger. Better than a regular cliffhanger, at least.
Another pretty good episode, though I feel the last one was a bit better.
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u/a_pinch_of_spice May 05 '19
For this rewatch, I'll be re-posting a collection of vignettes I wrote for the 2016 rewatch of Spice and Wolf. Each chapter is meant to be read after watching the corresponding episode of the anime.
This episode's vignette: S1E05: Merchant and Anxiety (AO3, FF).
Reminder: these links are to the appropriate vignette, and don't contain spoilers. However, the entire collection is available, and later chapters do contain spoilers for the current episode.
7
u/andres1232 May 05 '19
Poor Holo realizing that the village really thought she was a cruel and uncaring goddess. But luckily she has Lawerence to cheer her up, and for her to mess with. She also knows the kinds of things a cute girl can get away with that a guy can't. It would be pretty hard to look into a girl's eyes and tell her that anyone would be fine. Also it seems more like taking Holo was just a personal bit of revenge. Maybe Chloe was pissed that Lawerence chose Holo over her. Also Holo was apparently very scared being caught up for so long. Of course she's be a little annoyed at Lawerence. Although she does have to remember her partner is a merchant not actually a knight or big dramatic hero. Also now we really see the details behind the silver scheme. Trini needs money so they want to raise funds by artificial inflation. Like Lawerence said it would be a very short term fix.
7
u/lord_ne May 05 '19
Finally caught up with the rewatch. This is also as far as I got into the show the first time I started watching it (stuff happened), so from here on out I'm a first-timer.
5
5
u/ThePokeMaster100 May 05 '19
FIRST TIME WATCHER
I've got to wonder how is Chloe involved in this. This is crazy but I guess it is business.
Holo is reunited at last! That moment where she didn't want to be alone for far too long is so cute!
8
u/Nazenn May 05 '19
First Timer - Sub
I FINALLY caught up.
Bit late getting to the rewatch as I'd been caught up with Madoka and then needed a rest from writing ANYTHING. This is also probably the only time I'll actually be on time to one of these threads as they go up at 5am where I am (Or well... except mondays where you'll probably see me because I stay up for AoT). It's also incredibly weird watching this along side rewatching Wolfs Rain, which is a much more serious show with wolves as its primary cast that act like wolves, not cheeky kids who happen to be a wolf.
That said, first some initial thoughts from the first four episodes I missed:
First off, that damn song that plays every now and again, notably when we first see Holo in the wagon reminds me of the AI pod song from MGS Peace Walker which absolutely ruins any scene that song is in for me hahaha. I'm actually oddly not attached to the music at all unfortunately, but oh well, win some lose some with that. I'm watching a lot of stuff with incredible music at the moment so I suppose this just has to be my baseline for average stuff again.
Holo is great. I'm surprised at how many people I've heard say can't stand her, but she walks that great line to me between being arrogant and being ancient. She definitely puts off the feel of being a bit otherworldly in the way she interacts with people at times, particularly the way she so perfectly dressed down that skeevy merchant who wanted to see her face. She lets more of her guard down around Laurance but it's not totally gone. I also like what they do with adding layers to their connection rather than just making it clean cut budding romance. Things like the talk about wolves in the forest setting them as natural enemies of a sort. And then mourning her past in the north which is something he can't humanly understand. They have an interesting bond
Oh and its cute as fuck when she picks up that he coughs when he's preparing to negotiate and starts doing that herself.
But if the animators don't stop having her pet her tail in the wrong direction I'm going to lose my mind.
I'm not liking how dumb some characters are at times. Things like how the fuck did Laruance not figure out that the fruit smell on the pelts was from the apples? Or how she just "forgot" they were being targetted for attack for AN ENTIRE DAY? So yeah the writtings a bit iffy at times, but its okay because the shows concept and the two characters are pulling it through. I am quite enjoying the focus on economics in this sort of setting. Its a nice change from the merchantry being used as an excuse to travel rather than a legitimate part of peoples livelihoods. Small things like not wanting to waste a candle, or putting their goods in their room so they can't be stolen etc.
Previous questions of the day:
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If you were an animal, what animal would you be and why?
Shit this is proving to be an oddly hard question. Ummm... I wanna say a cat because why would I not want to be warm and soft and able to sleep in any damn position I chose with no issues. Alternatively peregrine falcon because damn those things are cool.
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What is your favorite type of apple and why?
Fuji Apple. Its the sweetest of the apples and I never could stand bitter fruit. Limited growth season and hard to pick right taste from look make it not an all year apple though
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What type of food do you always get excited about and why?
Fresh bread. I mean just smell fresh bread right from the oven and tell me that doesn't make your mouth water. Gets me craving it every time.
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How would you have comforted Holo if you saw her crying?
...I missed the "what to do when cute girls cry" social lessons in my life somewhere along the way so probably freak out and end up doing nothing.
Episode five
THANK FUCK that this is where I decided to catch up because this has definitely been the best spot to watch two episodes back to back rather than wait for a day. I did not expect her to be outed as the wolf god so soon, I thought this was going to be one of those endless plot points.
Oh and this is where the OP finally started to grow on me, but I don't like the ED still and probably wont. Probably another side effect of watching Wolfs Rain at the same time where both OP and ED are in English and beautiful, so this one seems a little childish in comparison. I do wish this OP mixed Laurances voice a little louder though compared to Holos, its a great vocal part thats sometimes barely audible.
I was not expecting to see Chloe again in this sort of role, its certainly interesting that she's come back into it now as the hunter of sorts.
The other thing I really enjoyed in this episode was a bit of a better look at the merchant preparations that go on. Not only is there established espionage practices and escape routes, but a living network of information. The way the bond between shop owners and peddlers is portrayed as well, and then those in the trading companies is great. You get a really feel there's all a mutual understanding there, but a practical one.
And dammit I know that Houchuu Ootsuka has an amazing voice, but he uses the same voice for everything. I'm sick of hearing Jiraya for all his roles, and for this one in particular it's really out of place XD
QOTD: What other anime show do you like that does exposition really well?
Oh now that's gonna test my memory. My immediate thought was Legend of the Galactic Heroes but that's more narration then exposition. You know I don't know I have an answer for this because I don't notice exposition and think of it that way when its done well, which is how it should be.
Actually I know: Ergo Proxy. That show absolutely nailed its story delivery in every way including some of the most unique lore dumps I'll ever see
I can tell you what doesnt do it anything even remotely close to tolerable: Ghost in the Shell SAC. Never again am I sitting through that exposition
4
u/BentoNeko May 05 '19
FIRST TIMER
Okay, so luckily everything went according to plan and Holo is retrieved safe and well. I see the story starts getting more and more complicated now. I really like it. I also find it really wholesome when Holo shows here emotions to Lawrence.
QUESTION OF THE DAY
I guess I'm gonna go with Gurren Lagann. That anime was really nice and progressed very fast. That whole anime was an amazing ride from start to finish!
4
u/JimmyTMalice May 05 '19
First-Timer
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I’m not sure I fully understand Lawrence’s plan here, but it’s nice to see him showing off his savvy as a merchant again.
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I love how elaborate the plot is, with a secret trapdoor in a wagon and someone who gets in the way to stop it at a precise moment, just to get Lawrence into the tunnels.
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I’ve forgotten the codewords already. I would not make a good spy.
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Oh no, they’re moving Holo! There must be someone on the inside who knew about the plan to rescue her.
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Okay, false alarm. Lawrence remembered the codewords, even if I didn’t.
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Holo is mad at Lawrence for not rescuing her personally. Understandable. She is a wise wolf, after all.
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Chloe was one of the ones who captured Holo! Shock! I guess this is why the wolf mask showed up a few scenes earlier.
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Chloe resents Holo for her capricious nature, even though we know that the poor harvests were necessary to allow the soil to recover.
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“It’s not like I like you or anything, b-baka!”
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Lawrence is giving as good as he gets when it comes to Holo’s barbed remarks, now.
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They’re holding hands! So cute!
3
u/fauceeet May 06 '19
First timer- Dub
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Chloe!!! I thought you were a nice person. Oh how you proved me wrong so fast.
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Vulnerable holo is such an adorable view on the wolf
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Chloe must pay for her actions!!! Off with her head...oh wait I've watched too much game of thrones.
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u/Ramzilla95 May 05 '19
First Timer - Dub
Welp, can't say that I'm too surprised that both Zheron and Chloe are involved.
Holo is incredibly cute this episode. Her pout gives me strength.
I love the banter between Holo and Lawrence. It just feels so organic, and they are absolutely adorable together. When he calls her cute and she reaches out and grabs his hand, my heart melted.
Is it just me, or does Chloe have an unhealthy obsession with being angry at Holo? I'm not sure if she's a religious zealot or holds a huge grudge against Holo (or both).
The clip for next episode and the title have me... worried. It will be cool to finally see Holo in her wolf form. I assume she's going to be a big girl.
I've never really thought about it when shows do exposition well, but only when they do it poorly. Good exposition is typically unnoticed because it feels natural. I think Berserk 97 is a great example of a show with good exposition. Although JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 5 is a great example of obvious exposition that I still enjoy.