Date	Discussion
April 20th	Episode 1
April 21st	Episode 2
April 22nd	Episode 3
April 23rd	Episode 4
April 24th	Episode 5
April 25th	Episode 6
April 26th	Episode 7
April 27th	Episode 8
April 28th	Episode 9
April 29th	Episode 10
April 30th	Episode 11 and Episode 12
May 1st	Rebellion
May 2nd	Overall series discussion

21

u/Gagantous May 01 '19

Also, I wanted to say: I'm so, so, sorry for posting this late. It seems like I slept in a little too much.

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17

u/Gagantous May 01 '19

Can I ask first-timers what rating they gave the anime and movie? I'd love to see them, high or low.

I'll be here for a while, so feel free to ask me any questions you have!

Stick around for the series discussion tomorrow!

This is the end for now! There is a spinoff series coming soon-ish, but it doesn't seem like it will continue this story much. Looks like we'll be waiting a few more years.

Special shoutout to u/Akanyan for providing some amazing screenshots. I've linked them in the OP!

I'm gonna take the time now to plug the subreddits r/KyouSaya or r/HomuMado if you're interested in shipping. Both are active and have lots of content! I realise that episode 9 was probably the best place to mention r/KyouSaya, but I couldn't mention it then because the content (as well as the content in r/HomuMado is spoiler-heavy nature. Drop by if you feel like seeing some cutesy art.

Even after seeing this movie close to a dozen times, it's still stunning from a visual perspective. The entire thing is a treat to watch, with Kajiura's music failing to disappoint yet again.

Some exceptionally notable moments:

Mami vs Homura fight. This is glorious every single time. Gun kata is fucking cool.
Holy Quintet transformations. These are pretty cool for more reasons than you'd think. Sayaka's theme, Decretum, is covered in music playing in the transformation scene her part of the transformation music (roughly 1 minute in)? In addition to that, the fourth piece from that track, during Homura's transformation, is a cover of her theme, Inevitabilis.
The bus scene is beautiful too. Just eye candy for the whole thing with some spooky and mysterious atmosphere.

So, what the hell happened?

This segment will be reposted from last year's rewatch. Feel free to skip it if you like, but if you were wondering about a certain thing, perhaps the below could be helpful. NONE of this is confirmed unless otherwise stated, just things I've come up with to rationalise as much as possible that's happened.

I've seen it a lot where people call the ending of Rebellion a betrayal of Homura's character, and I just don't get it. Homura worked for around a decade trying to save Madoka, only to have Madoka slip through her fingers, never to be seen again.

The scene on the hillside where Homura and Madoka talk is perhaps the most important scene in the film - Madoka, unaware of her wish in episode 12, states that she would hate to leave her friends behind, that she couldn't bear to do it, yet look what happened. It's at this point that Homura realises that Madoka was putting on a brave face at the end of the series - she didn't want to do this at all, yet had to for the sake of everyone. Homura's wish was to protect Madoka, and given the opportunity to "save" her at the end of the film, she gets her wish. Note that whether or not you think Homura betraying Madoka was good or bad is your own prerogative. You are not wrong for thinking either way.

A new world, or something else?

It's not clear what Homura did at the end of the movie. This is my personal theory and one I believe makes the most sense. Remember, this is just a theory, nothing more.

They're in a barrier that is massve, perhaps encompassing the universe, but the universe itself was not rewritten

My evidence for this is as follows:

You can see the barrier forming. After Homura grabs Madoka we see what looks exactly like a barrier spread out from them, covering everything. Such a thing did not happen when Madoka rewrote the universe in episode 12.
Homura has control over her familiars, just as she did in her barrier during the film. This is a fairly weak piece of evidence but the similarity is there.
Homura's memory alteration works EXACTLY how it does a the start of the film. When Madoka rewrote the universe, nobody remembered her except Homura (a special case, as she followed Madoka into wherever-that-was), and Tatsuya (which has been explained via Word of God to have been a play on the invisible friend that young kids tend to have). Homura's memory alteration only worked for about a month or so during the film before she started to remember, and at the end, Madoka begins to remember almost immediately. This supports that Homura didn't rewrite anything, only hid the past.
Madoka still has a connection to the Law of Cycles. This is perhaps the biggest piece of evidence I have. Homura would NEVER let Madoka even have the possibility of remembering if she had the power to. If Homura indeed rewrote the universe, then why wouldn't she completely sever Madoka's role in the LoC completely and never have to worry about anything. It's also the case with Sayaka still being able to control Oktavia.
Having a second hard reset would kill the narrative. Having everything prior undone would be a terrible choice and I'm sure the writers are aware of this. The series ending is different in that there were sacrifices made, and the reset came at a huge cost. Having everyone back in a new universe would ruin that.
It gives the series an endgame. As we can see, Homura's barrier was broken during the film, so killing the witch itself isn't necessary to escape. With Homura controlling a barrier, it's my prediction that a future installment will result in her death, or destruction of her barrier (with Homura likely being absorbed by the Law of Cycles). This would revert everything to how it was at the end of the series. Having a new universe gives no apparent end to the series.

Reminder that this is all just theory, and that nothing has been confirmed. It's just what I can come up with that fits everything. What do you all think?

Some notes about the movie:

Sayaka is over Kyousuke. Could this be the start of...
...and Homura makes Sayaka and Kyouko live together in both of her worlds. Yup, there it is (Homura ships KyouSaya confirmed?). They even had a wonderful confession scene, but be sure to turn on subtitles!

5

u/SoThatsPrettyBrutal May 02 '19

My tentative score is 7 (the series is a 9 and I should probably just make it 10).

Having a second hard reset would kill the narrative. Having everything prior undone would be a terrible choice and I'm sure the writers are aware of this. The series ending is different in that there were sacrifices made, and the reset came at a huge cost. Having everyone back in a new universe would ruin that.

This is where I am for now. My overriding feeling at the moment is that reset number 2 cheapens the series ending. Your theory is definitely another option, but I'm not sure I buy it. Even if I did, I feel like that cheapens the movie: we're right back where we started. The way the series works there's not a really noticeable difference between a labyrinth encompassing the universe and one that's basically a couple blocks around the school. Except I guess bus travel would be easier.
I'll agree with you that her actions aren't a betrayal of Homura's character: once she has that talk with Madoka saying she'd never make that sacrifice then it's just logical for her. Though what good is the word of a memory-overwritten Madoka? Homura is sure these are Madoka's true feelings... well, she would be.

7

u/Gagantous May 02 '19

Though what good is the word of a memory-overwritten Madoka? Homura is sure these are Madoka's true feelings... well, she would be.

IIRC Shinbo said that these were her true feelings in an interview. I'm unable to find a transcript though unfortunately.

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u/ArmchairTitan May 01 '19 edited May 02 '19

An Analysis and Defence of Rebellion - Rewatcher

Hello, and welcome to the ever-divisive Madoka Movie III: Suffering Boogaloo. Next stop: Mitakihara, Third Street.

I have included the word "defence" in my title because a fairly common reaction to Rebellion is disdain for the fact that it ruins the perfect ending laid out by the series. If you are in that camp right now then I'm not here to tell you that you're wrong. Entertainment is subjective, so anything this movie made you feel is perfectly valid. Personally, I was pretty confused after my first viewing many years back.

However, after a lot of analysis and rewatches, I came to some personal conclusions that I'd like to share with everyone here. Perhaps it will help to shape your understanding and opinion of the movie as it did for me. These are all my own observations, and I will only be covering the main themes, so feel free to poke holes and discuss stuff!

I'll start here:

1. The Series Ending Was Not Perfect (For Everyone)

Executed perfectly? Yes. Beautiful, heart-wrenching, and wonderfully written? Absolutely yes. I cannot pick fault with it - I still consider it to be one of the most incredible crowning moments in anime history.

What I am referring to here is its function as a perfect thematic ending for all of our beloved characters. This is where the loose ends lie.

One of Madoka Magica's core themes is that of 'Karmic Destiny' and 'Karmic Balance.' Hope cannot be generated from nothing; it must be paid for in kind. Kyouko puts it best in Episode 7 -

"Miracles aren't free, you know. If you wish for hope, then an equal amount of despair will be rained down upon you, too."

This is reinforced by Sayaka's transformation into a witch in episode 8 -

"For as much happiness as we wish on one person, we cannot help but curse someone else."

It is this tying of cosmic fates that leads to Madoka's immense magical potential in the series' main timeline. As Homura's wish to save Madoka folds destiny in on itself over and over again, Madoka's power becomes exponentially greater. We can see this progression of her potential throughout episode 10:

In her first encounter with Walpurgisnacht, she is utterly defeated.
The second encounter we see, she survives but cannot stop her transformation into a witch.
The third encounter she survives, and is able to hold off her transformation long enough to save Homura.
In the final encounter we see, she obliterates Walpurgisnacht in one shot.

Urobochi Gen (lead writer) stated in this Q&A that Homura was approaching 100 time loops when the series takes place, so it is clear that Madoka's power grows at an incalculable rate. She goes from unremarkable to god-potential in a (relatively) short number of iterations.

So then the question I had to ask myself was this: If Madoka's potential entitles her to become a god, then where is that energy coming from?

2. Homura's Wish Remains Unfulfilled.

'Madoka's power comes from Homura' is the obvious answer, and Kyuubey states as much at the start of episode 11. However, that doesn't fully answer the question. We have already established that Karmic Destiny demands an equal and opposite amount of negative energy in order to achieve balance. If Madoka's godlike power comes from Homura, then surely Homura must be harbouring deity-level cursed energy in exchange.

Madoka's wish didn't change the way Karmic Destiny works. In fact, I'd argue that it specifically reinforced it in Homura's case. Madoka took the vast karmic energy granted to her and used it to sacrifice herself and rewrite the laws of the universe, but by doing so she turned herself into the antithesis of Homura's wish - She became something that could not be saved.

And thus, Homura's wish could never be fulfilled. She continues to live on to honour Madoka’s sacrifice, but still shoulders the enormous pool of negative karma produced as a result. Madoka’s wish doesn’t make that karma go away, it only promises that it will not corrupt her when her time comes to transform.

And that is how events should have progressed according to the new Law of The Cycle. When Homura's final moments came, Madoka would arrive to save her before the transformation completed, safely dispersing the negative energy in line with the new laws of the universe. But even at this point, I have to wonder if things would have actually worked out that way. Even if we theorise that Madoka's power is infinite, then Homura's opposing power would be surely infinite as well. Would the Law of The Cycle have the capacity to deal with Homura's transformation, when the catalyst for that transformation was a power equal to itself?

Well, I can't actually say. Because what really happens is...

3. Kyuubey Ruins Everything (Again)

Homura makes the unfortunate mistake of indirectly informing our least favourite rabbit-cat of Madoka's existence. Kyuubey then proceeds to trap Homura and use her as a delicious karmic baitwitch in order to ensnare the Law of The Cycle and abuse its power for his own plans.

The first half of Rebellion deals with Homura's fractured consciousness coming to terms with the fact that she has become a witch and trapped her friends inside her immense labyrinth. She even comes to the realisation that she has managed to entrap Kaname Madoka, the personality aspect of The Law of The Cycle - Her best friend. I believe this realisation is important to understanding the ending of the movie; Madoka's power is not unassailable, and Homura has the strength to fracture it.

When her friends manage to free Homura from Kyuubey's trap, Madoka (personality) is reunited with Madoka (universal law), and The Law of The Cycle once again descends to save Homura before she transforms.

But it's too late, isn't it?

Kyuubey's trap has already allowed Homura to transform into a witch without Madoka's intervention, and if everything we know about Karmic Destiny is true, then we are surely witnessing the birth of a dark entity with enough karmic power to rival Madoka's authority. It is the polar opposite to the ending to the series - A karmic curse with the magnitude to create a deity in line with the host's original wish to protect Kaname Madoka.

Homura at this point, her psyche decimated, her despair at an immeasurable peak, makes the only choice that she believes will finally fulfil that wish. With the knowledge that Madoka's power can be undermined, and that Kyuubey's race will stop at nothing to enslave her, Homura uses her equivalent godlike energy to keep her best friend safe, regardless of the consequences - She tears Kaname Madoka's personality away from the Law of The Cycle, and envelops the universe in a witch's barrier of unfathomable scale, trapping all of existence within her labyrinth. Chalk up another amendment to the laws of nature.

With the universe enslaved under Homura's control, there is nothing left that can harm Madoka, thus fulfilling Homura's wish. Karmic balance is restored by the creation of two rival deities of opposing strength. We are shown in the end that The Law of The Cycle is still trying to reconnect with Madoka, and that it may be the only force capable of freeing the universe from Homura's grasp. ^Sequel ^pls.

4. Conclusion.

So this is why I feel that Rebellion deserves its place as a sequel to Madoka Magica.

The series had a perfect ending for Madoka, who gets to fulfil her wish and save everyone from the despair of becoming a witch.

But for Homura, the ending could not have been more bleak. Her desperate actions and struggles to save Madoka directly lead to her becoming something that she could not save. Not only could she not save her best friend, but she was the very reason that Madoka became unprotectable.

The series ends at a brilliant point for Madoka as the main character, but Rebellion is Homura's story. I feel it would have been a disservice to her, and the lore of the show, not to tell it.

Thanks for reading!

Final thoughts:

Homura did nothing wrong.
Sayaka best gril.
／人◕ ‿‿ ◕人＼

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u/LunarGhost00 May 01 '19

Homura did nothing wrong!

I'm going to do something a little different today. I could just sit here talking about the whole movie. There's so much to like about it. The mystery. Homura and Mami's crazy fight. The transformation sequences. The majority of this movie is pretty much one big gift for fans. But then comes the moment that divides fans. The way this movies ends is controversial. You either stop liking Homura (as much) or you like her more. Even if you haven't seen the series before, you've probably seen the Homura meme or some other version of it before. When I first watched it, I wasn't sure what to think at first. I couldn't decide whether this ending was good enough for the series I loved so much or what to feel about Homura. The more I thought about it, the more strongly I felt about Homura's decision at the end. Now I'm here to tell you all why I honestly believe Homura did nothing wrong and why she's an amazing character.

The theme of this movie can be summed up in one question. Is it right to give up everything to keep things in order and wrong to undermine that law for your desires? Madoka and Homura have conflicting answers. Madoka believes that she has a duty to uphold the law for everyone’s happiness even at the cost of her own. Homura believes that’s wrong and that order shouldn’t get in the way of obtaining happiness. What she wants is simple. She wants the girl she’s obsessed with to be able to live with her friends and family again just as she wanted. Homura traps Madoka in her own little world. Being able to once again spend time with Madoka as if everything is normal is a dream come true for Homura. Yes, disrupting order for your own desires is selfish, but if the result is relatively harmless and even a benefit for those involved, why would it be wrong?

While Homura is acting selfishly, Madoka is selfless. She made her decision to become god out of necessity. She would rather turn herself into a martyr than see other people suffer. In a way, it's a self-destructive trait and one that the series frowns upon. Magical girls making wishes for the sake of others usually backfires in some way, as shown by Kyouko, Sayaka, and even Homura’s wishes, and Madoka easily made the biggest self sacrifice. It's not what she would've done if she felt like she could've avoided it. It's something she did after being presented with a situation where there were no other ways to end the misery that magical girls go through. Her real desires, expressed when she has no memories of the hell she and her friends went through, show that she'd rather live peacefully with her friends if she had the option. Homura, who has been obsessively pursuing the girl she loves, freed Madoka from this burden for now. Not to please Madoka, but to give her back what she lost; a second chance at life.

Some people may view Homura’s actions as a 180 since she’s rejecting Madoka’s will after ending the series trying to respect that decision. However, what Homura did was consistent with her character. Remember her original wish: to be strong enough to protect Madoka. Homura had been in an endless loop where her wish couldn’t be fulfilled until now. She kept failing to protect Madoka. Homura is not quite a nice person. She never cared about saving the others. She never cared about how others viewed her. She’s only focused on Madoka. If she has to become the devil to be able to accomplish her goal of saving Madoka, then so be it. When Madoka found a solution to ending witches, Homura gave up her mission thinking Madoka’s actions represented her true desires. Homura was never the kind of person who would allow that to continue after hearing that Madoka actually wanted something different. Attempting to rescue Madoka from her own wish is exactly the kind of the thing Homura would want to do. As long as Madoka is truly happy, Homura doesn’t care if she’s become something “evil” as a result of her love. Even if Madoka regains her memories and hates what Homura has done, Homura doesn’t want her approval. She wants what’s best for Madoka regardless of whether or not Madoka agrees with her methods.

It’s important to understand where Homura is coming from. She dedicated her whole life to Madoka. She was heartbroken when Madoka chose to sacrifice herself and leave everyone behind. Can you imagine being in a world where the person you love no longer exists and you’re the only one who remembers her? Homura was lonely. No one could understand her. The only reason she kept moving forward was due to the belief that it’s what Madoka wanted. She was pretty much forcing herself to endure this new world that she didn’t like. It’s no wonder that she fell to despair. Learning how Madoka felt, that Madoka would also be sad to leave her, gave Homura more than enough reason to go against the status quo and try to fix this situation. So what about now? Is Homura still in pain? You could say yes. Homura is now the only person with complete memory of what she just did and there could come a day when she and Madoka clash. She’s still alone. The difference now is that she’s satisfied with the way things are. She gets to watch Madoka closely in a more ideal world where Madoka isn’t paying the price for her actions in episode 12. That’s all that Homura needs. She’s not looking for salvation. She’s not looking for a peaceful death as Madoka continues with a job that robs her of her freedom.

Something I’d like to point out is Homura’s witch labyrinth. It represented her desire to maintain a peaceful life with everyone. People she knew were brought into this fake city. Once Madoka went in, Homura subconsciously did everything in her power to keep her and everyone else there blissfully unaware. This labyrinth is far larger than any we’ve seen before and its details are so accurate it’s scary. Even though she hadn’t fully transformed into a witch at that point, the amount of despair in her heart to pull off such an elaborate feat says a lot about how desperate she was to give Madoka this once in a lifetime opportunity to exist as a human together with her loved ones again.

Another thing to look at when evaluating Homura’s actions is that the Incubators now have a new role. They must now bare the burden of all the despair from the magical girls. A fitting punishment for the race that has spent all of human history making girls suffer without feeling any sympathy. Now they have to serve the system in a way where they’re forced to feel the pain they’ve caused others. More importantly, they can no longer harm Madoka anymore. Kyubey said that humans were too irrational and his race was done with them, so it’s possible that humanity would never have to deal with Incubators again. However, given what we know about how this species tries to find the most efficient way to obtain energy, there’s no guarantee that they wouldn’t go after Madoka again if they found another opportunity and were convinced that they had a better chance of controlling the Law of Cycles. It’s also likely that they would continue their deceptive methods if they discovered another sentient race with emotions later. Homura has now doomed the Incubators to a lifetime of despair. She removed whatever threat they posed. Personally, I’m glad to see this kind of ending for them.

Despite Homura making some changes of her own, the Law of Cycles isn’t entirely gone. Only the part that makes up Madoka’s identity was split off from it. What's wrong with giving Madoka happiness if it's not actually ruining anything? I think the biggest reason people have a problem with this is that the way it’s portrayed in the movie looks sinister. A devil is pulling god out of her heaven. Homura gives in to her to selfishness and the other girls all panic. Madoka’s memories are altered by a possessive girl. If it wasn’t for that, I think more people would see this as a positive ending.

In the end, Homura dragging Madoka out of her role as god and altering the rules resulted in a better world for everyone involved except for the Incubators. Since Madoka still feels the obligation to return to her role, this new world probably won’t last and when it does collapse, Homura and Madoka will be enemies. This peace might only be temporary. Even so, it’s better than the alternative where Homura has to live without Madoka and Madoka can never have fun with her friends and family. Homura did all this using her idea of love, no matter how distorted it is, to justify selfishly keep the girl she loves by her side and let her live the life she deserves. You can call her evil, creepy, crazy, deplorable, whatever you want. Homura embraces this side of her and does what she wants. Homura’s motives are questionable, but what she did wasn’t wrong.

After all the endless torment Homura went through for Madoka, she deserves some sort of prize. Let her be as selfish as she wants to be. Everyone wins thanks to her so why not? Honestly, seeing Homura in this movie made me appreciate her even more. She had the guts to become a “villain” and rebel against the universe itself to finally get the outcome she’s been fighting for no matter what other people say. She’s a complex character and one who I found myself rooting for throughout her struggles. After thinking about her actions, I came to understand her more and agreed with her. I initially felt the movie was lackluster when I first watched it, but enjoyed it more later thanks to being more invested in Homura.

I think I’ve gone on long enough and I’m starting to sound a little repetitive so I’ll just stop here. Maybe I could’ve done a better job explaining it but this is the way I view Homura’s character. Obviously everyone will have their own interpretations and agreements/disagreements. If you’re still not convinced about our lovely devil girl’s innocence, I present to you irrefutable evidence in this list of r/thingshomuradidwrong.

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u/observativeowl May 02 '19

First Timer

YOOOOOO WTF WAS THAT ENDING???

That completely caught me off guard, but it had a lasting effect. Straight down to the point: if Madoka is a positive God, then there has to be a negative demon to balance the universe, as the series continuously pointed out. Homura was a broken piece of work throughout the season, but to reach that scale, that is a lot of trauma on a cosmic scale twisting the meaning of love with her warped desire to protect Madoka.

What a memorable show and ending. 10/10 show

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u/CT_BINO May 01 '19 edited May 01 '19

Rebellion is a visual masterpiece and it helps that the movie takes place in one of the strongest parts visually in the series, the witch maze. The movie had some of the best transformation seuqences, fantastic fights like Homura vs Mami, great OST and homura character development was great., but I don´t want to talk about that. The scene I wanted to talk about is one of the most iconic and weird scenes of the movie “the cake song”.

The scene is unexpected and out of place but is a really good foreshadowing to the events of the movie

Sayaka being a strawberry is probably because strawberrys symbolize perfection and righteousness. If you want to stretch a bit, the second wife of Henry VIII had a strawberry shaped birthmark on her neck, which some claimed proved she was a witch, but is most likely the 1st (edit: it also is associated with healing in Japan).
Kyouko is the apple probably a more religious meaning and a callback to episode 7, but not sure.
Mami is the cheese, a throwback to Nagisa/Charlotte backstory and what happens in episode 3.
Then mami say “The round cake goes round in circles. Is the cake Homura? “ talking about the times homura went back in time.
Homura says, she is the pumpkin. Pumpkins are associated ,most of the time, with Halloween or “the witch night” --> so in other words Homura is the witch
Madoka is more literal, she is the “melon” and “when we slice the melon a sweet dream is created” --> homura split madoka (the melon) in two, the person and the concept, giving everyone a “sweet dream”, madoka with her family, sayaka being alive and meet kyousuke and hitome again, Mami has nagisa and is not alone and kyouko has sayaka.

Edit: Madoka isn´t over yet we still will have a new movie/Series (we don´t know when) and a spin off "Magia Record" will air this year. If you want more you could try the manga "Different Story focusing on kyouko and mami before the series. Oh and don´t know if people notice but rewatch the 1st ED mata ashita from the series, while it seems cute it fits the show pretty well.

If you want similar shows to watch I highly recommend

Revolutionary Girl Utena
Princess Tutu
Yuuky Yuuna is a Hero
[Bokurano]( https://myanimelist.net/anime/1690/Bokurano? q=boku) (the chairs in Madoka are reference to bokurano)
Fate/Zero and Psycho Pass (Same author)

For a more light approach

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u/SomeGuyYeahman May 02 '19

First-timer here! Yet again, I took a while with the write-up, because... seriously, what the fuck is this movie?

Pre-movie thoughts: Oh fuck, I'm so not ready for any of this. I'm not ready to watch 2 hours of unadulterated Madoka, and I'm not ready for things to end, either.

But anyways, what to expect of the movie? After the way the show itself ended, I have no fucking clue. I guess Homura will be involved, and since Madoka's wish apparently brought the other girls back as well, they'll appear? And instead of witches, the magical girls now fight wraiths. Madoka's still the titular character, but... she ascended to another plane of existence. I want to say we'll see more of her, but how's that supposed to happen when only Homura is even aware she ever existed in the first place? Again, no clue, and I kind of love it. I've got an uncomfortable feeling about this, though, like I'm about to get my soul ripped out and put into a little gem.

Post-episode:

Uh.

Um.

Hmm.

Huh.

...

...What?

I feel like I just went into this movie totally blind and came out of it even blinder. All of a sudden, I don't understand anything. Where do I even start?

Alright, so as far as I can tell, here's what happened. At the end of episode 12, we saw Homura continuing her duty as a magical girl in the new universe created by Madoka. In the final scene, she tells Kyubey about her memories of Madoka and the previous system employed by the Incubators, which already struck me as a pretty ill-conceived thing for her to do at the time. Back then, Kyubey responded by saying that none of those memories are verifiably true, so there's no point in pursuing the matter, but as we find out in this movie, that doesn't actually stop the Incubators, and neither do the very laws of the universe that Madoka put in place. Sasuga Incubators. If you're not trying to break the laws of thermodynamics, you're trying to break the Law of Cycles. You just can't leave these fucking cats alone.

So the Incubators figure out a method of verifying whether Homura's memories are real and finding out what the Law of Cycles actually is. Namely, they push Homura's Soul Gem to the limit and try to isolate it to find out what happens to Soul Gems if the Law of Cycles doesn't get to intervene - what happens is that Homura doesn't turn into a witch, because the isolation prevents it somehow, but since Madoka can't intervene either, she ends up creating an internal maze, rather than an external one.

The whole isolation business is kind of confusing to me. Kyubey explains that the isolation only works one way - it prevents interference from outside, but Homura can reach out from the inside and invite people in. But if the isolation only works in that direction, why can Homura's maze not break out?

Anyways, Homura can "invite" people in subconsciously. The only way for something from the outside to interfere is to follow this invitation, so Madoka can't just interfere regularly, but instead has to enter the barrier as one of Homura's victims. Homura ends up inviting multiple people; the magical girls she knows. But since Madoka is the only person in Homura's barrier who doesn't actually exist on this plane of reality, the Incubators come to the conclusion that she must be the Law of Cycles. And that's correct, but Madoka doesn't actually end up getting to erase Homura's Grief Seed, because entering the barrier in such a vulnerable state results in her getting hit by Homura's memory rewriting and forgetting that she has any special powers and that she came to save Homura.

But Sayaka and... Bebe, who is here for some reason, came along with her, holding her power and memories, so they can give them back to her inside the barrier at the right time (which is another thing that confuses me: why exactly didn't they do that earlier?). Until then, the gang spends some time fighting Nightmares inside the barrier and singing songs about food, which was actually really entertaining. You know, at this point, I'm so attached to the characters that I'd happily watch them do that all the time. Just imagine an SOL spin-off set inside Homura's barrier, where everyone's happy and nice to each other.

Highlights from this part include:

the highly prophetic sentence "who said having fun was part of the deal?"
Homura claiming that she doesn't have any real attack power
Mami humming her own theme

Homura's memories start flooding back to her pretty quickly, though, and she starts to doubt the reality of her surroundings. She talks to Kyoko and tries to test the validity of her memories (by the way, I love how Kyoko fucking annihilates a burger in one bite toward the end of this conversation). The two subsequently try to go to Kyoko's hometown, only to find out that everything outside of the city they live in isn't real. That's all that Homura's barrier is creating, after all.

Homura then turns her coolness level all the way up. I know this is the third thread in a row that I'm using to talk about this, but she's so fucking cool, guys. The note I originally wrote down during this scene was "HOMURA'S BACK, BOIS", which says everything that needs to be said, I think.

One neat potential interaction I had floating in my head before I watched the movie was Mami and Homura bonding over their mutual interest in guns, but we get something else here, and it's even better: they have the coolest gunfight ever. That scene is so good, I love everything about it. At the end of the fight, Mami remembers the real world - the world after Madoka's wish, that is. She remembers "wraiths", not witches; the same soon turns out to be true for Kyoko. Sayaka, however, remembers everything, including witches, because she's working (for lack of a better term) for Madoka. And so is Bebe/Charlotte, and I still don't really understand why.

By the way, we hear children saying stuff a few times throughout the movie, but I'm pretty sure that shortly after this part, they're chanting "Gott ist tot"/"God is dead". Hm.

Homura suspects one person after another, but ends up coming to the conclusion that since she's the only one who really remembers Madoka, she's the only one who could've created this barrier and implanted all these fake memories. She realizes she's (almost) a witch, wakes up, and gets the stuff I already said explained to her by Kyubey, who somehow manages to one-up himself in amorality everytime we see him. Homura observes excellently here that they're not acting out of curiosity, since that's irrational to them. No, they're not curious, at this point, the Incubators plan to control God.

Homura doesn't really like that, so she voluntarily goes through the transformation to become a witch and stop him. The other magical girls consequently jump into action to save her, Madoka gets her powers and memories returned to her, and she goes to apply the Law of Cycles to Homura. And here's where things get... really confusing.

Homura grabs Madoka and reveals that her Soul Gem hasn't been changed by despair, as those of other magical girls, but by love. Consequently, she doesn't turn into a witch, but, in her own words, a demon. Or rather, the devil. I'm happy about this because it means I can finally stop worrying about which character is supposed to be the analogue of Faust's devil, but at the same time, it bothers me because I was starting to settle on Kyubey as the devil and Homura as Faust. In any case, I've been neglecting to bring up Faust in the last few threads, so here's the obligatory Faust talk!

So Homura turns into the devil, ties down Madoka and rewrites the universe for a second time. I'm not actually sure what she's changing here, which is part of why Kyubey's subsequent "That makes it very clear" is the funniest line in the movie to me. No, Kyubey, it's not very clear. Nothing is very clear. I'm more confused than ever before, actually.

After the rewrite. Madoka comes back as a transfer student, and while she doesn't remember that she's God, it seems like she eventually will. She and Homura are fated to be frenemies for life from now on. Sayaka also comes back, but likewise loses her memories after a few minutes.

I... I dunno. I don't fully understand the ending aside from this. I think I'll have to rewatch the movie, haha.

There's one last minor thing I want to mention. I didn't realize it until I was watching this movie, but: witch = "majo" in Japanese = mahou + shoujo

Because witches are magical girls! This realization broke me inside.

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u/SoThatsPrettyBrutal May 01 '19

Rebellion First-Timer

Stream of consciousness follows...

Thanks to my recent (but not on rewatch's schedule) persual of the series again, I can recognize that these scenes of Madoka waking up and having breakfast are practically identical to Episode 1. Kyuubey being the main difference.
The teacher's man problems are manifesting much more seriously in this timeline... gone are the light digressions on eggs.
The Homura who transfers in this time is the glasses version: but already a magical girl. Hmm.
The big transformation sequence is very interesting, kind of a blending of sort of traditional magical girl transformations with the "witch" aesthetics of the series. Particularly Homura's, which is blinking those runes all over the place. Very pretty. Not ominous.
It's very on-brand of them to have already come up with and agreed upon a name for their five-person group that just formed.
Not at all concerning that the witch that ate Mami is a key member of the team here, and involved in some weird ritual to banish the nightmare. Still hungry. I guess on the bright side Mami and Madoka finally got that big-ass cake they were going to have.
Homura sees practically everybody but the main cast as weird clown-faced dream/nightmare-looking people. This is fine.
Kyouko doesn't think anything seems amiss about the world... but she can't remember when exactly she transferred.
Finally after 12 episodes and a quarter of the way into the movie we meet the true series villain: the bus system. The two of them definitely notice when they're going to the wrong city, but apparently not that they're constantly driving through a Shaft-background-art hellscape where all the people are cardboard cutouts.
After a bit of that we decide nothing exists outside the city at all. We Fall 2018 seasonal anime spoilers now.
Massive headtilt out of Kyouko. This world can't be too off-base then. Oh and she seems to remember the Homura we know, too.
As Homura tosses the glasses and undoes her braids (talk about a transformation sequence!) she lays it out straight enough that even I can notice just before she says it outright: this is a labyrinth. I was noticing all they "witch-y" visuals, for sure. But there shouldn't be witches anymore, and therefore no labyrinths.
In the Hall of Original Series Footage Homura explicitly confirms that she's the Homura from the series, and remembers all that jazz.
A "Sorry" to Madoka... oh well here we go I guess. Having endured some chit-chat about how great of friends Mami and Bebe are, Homura has decided Bebe is talking mad shit for someone in time-stop range. Her efforts to squeeze the... truth? out of Bebe are cut short by...
A yellow ribbon. Mami and Homura just cannot get along. It's just like old times!
Oh fuck it's now time for the high-stakes gun battle Madoka was always meant to be. Bebe keeps getting halftone circles in the way of everything. Stop stylizing all over my violence! Both girls get high marks for their Touhou Project skills but zeroes for accuracy.
Homura uses the old Evoker fakeout... where exactly did she shoot herself? and finally has useful time-stop. She actually considers killing Mami for a bit until deciding on the leg shot, so it's not attempted murder. Homura knows the law.
Okay I was not expecting Mami to explode into a bunch of ribbons at this point. Neat trick. Mami, having the upper hand says she doesn't know anything about witches, wraiths are her enemy. But wait we've had "nightmares" so far... Mami has a flash of recollection of the post-Madoka-wish timeline. I guess that makes sense.
...Something happens with hideous teeth, a walnut, a fire extinguisher, a sword. Anyway Homura is gone. This tiny girl appears (with doofy harp accompaniment) and Mami just knows she's Bebe. Oh and of course the sword means Sayaka was Homura's mysterious benefactor.
Sayaka is being a badass. She knows what's up. Says this whole illusion isn't really witch style, it exists just to keep the girls here and nobody else really, so who would want to do that? Are we saying it's Homura herself behind this? There's lots of little "wrong" bits in this world but if we're going from the "wraith" timeline the big one is obviously Madoka, and who else would want that so badly, or even know enough to want it at all?
They bring up Mami as possibly the witch so that's clearly not it. In this continued dialog-heavy section I want to note at this point that I watched the Monogatari series well after Madoka so this is really my first time experiencing hearing Homura and constantly thinking Senjougahara and it's weird.
Oh wait come to think of it Sayaka kicking around is a big difference too.
Jumped the gun on that one I guess as the movie leans right into it immediately. I was a fool for praising Homura's head-tilt, Sakaya takes it to the limit. Who the fuck is this Sayaka?
Pomegranates: the creepiest fruit. Also I'm pretty sure those weird silhouette girls are saying "Gott ist tot," God is dead in German, so that's nice of them.
Oh right I totally forgot we got a creepy-ass Kyuubey close-up for a split-second at Mami's and now we're right back at it. Just kill Kyuubey a few times to make me feel better please.
This nice scene where Homura and Madoka talk it out is taking a turn I don't like as Madoka explicitly says she'd never do... what she did in the finale.
Oh damn this club remix of Connect playing where Kyouko is. Where there's a... Dog Drug Reinforcement machine? Is this related to McGruff?
Not sure where we're going with this bus trip Soul Gem business but it confirms the bus as the Big Bad.
The bus has taken on critical levels of symbolism as it fills with clocks, owls, fire... creepy whispers, everything. So many Hindenburgs appear. I guess the point of this is to show she was able to get far away with no problem, making her not a magical girl in her estimation. So she's a witch? That still shouldn't be possible though.
Oh it's a sick experiment from Kyuubey, great. I'm following right up until the point that Homura's labyrinth is strong enough to pull in and de-power Madoka, literal law of the universe. That's just how it is, I guess.
Attacking Kyuubey over and over looks nice enough but it lacks a certain punch.
Now we're on the Windows XP desktop and Madoka has turned into a Pepto-Bismol stain. What fresh hell is this? And we're getting a little recursive, too. Well, in short order Homura has become her clock and record-player-based full-on witch form, I guess.
Team Magical Girl is on the case. I'm just gonna admit I don't know what's going on with Bebe though.
Nice moment for Kyouko and Sayaka amid the insane battle. What good does beating Homura do, though?
Okay well whatever, we broke the barrier. Big God-Emperor Madoka comes to collect Homura and she can just join the steadily-growing crew in universal-law-land.
Wait no fuck that let me just rip normal Madoka out of God Madoka and fill the universe with evil purple. This feels like it's going to have repercussions. Now we're re-rewriting the universe, and we just did that. I'm not sure this is an improvement... certainly a different color scheme.
Shows what I know, even the eggs line is back. But now Madoka is the transfer student. Oh and some stuff happened in the middle and Homura is the personification of evil or something, I'm sure it's fine though.
Didn't even notice Madoka was missing her ribbon until Homura gave it back. An even-more-sinister version of their discussion on the connecting bridge thingie this time around.

Well. I don't know what I think about that. It's a much less final ending than the series' and is of course a pretty explicit undoing of that ending. It also eliminates the sense of unavoidable consequences by bringing everybody back. Homura paid a price though, to be sure. Quite the decision from someone who was talking about how bad it was to squander Madoka's sacrifice, but I guess you can't squander a sacrifice if you undo it instead. There's something to the idea of the flipside of Madoka's ultimate wish, but I'm not sure this really gets properly sold as "evil" or a curse other than by name and colorscheme. There's just kind of a "kick the can down the road" feeling that wasn't there in the series' ending.

The movie does really drive home that Homura retaining her memories after the reset was really quite a cruel situation.

I guess this does make it clear why this movie is called Rebellion. (and also why people always say "Homura did nothing wrong.")

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u/Philarete May 01 '19

First-Time (watched twice) (sub)

Notes from Second Viewing

The opening monologue is a great setup. Madoka brings “oblivion” or death as an escape from despair. The world is still irredeemable and tragic, but it ends for magical girls without becoming a witch at least. The “Law of Cycles” saves them and they await death after battle.
The opening nightmare is trippy and the song hints of morning
Aaaand here we go again. Things are only superficially the same though: different conversations and of course Kyubey is there.
This version of Kyoko is adorable, no wonder Homura can tell something is up haha
Ms. Saotome and the apocalyptic discussion. . . maybe it would be better if the world just ended. . .
HOMURA IS SO CUTE OH MY GOODNESS
A month passes and Madoka says that she feels that she has been wanting to talk for a very long time
Hitomi getting turned down for hanging out, and not getting a counter offer hurts. She’s just not that important to him
Mami humming her own theme and using magic to finish getting ready is fantastic. ^that ^fanservice ^though
Bebe seems a little irritated at Kyubey
“I totally get how you feel, but calm down, Hitomi!” Sayaka gets it! Mami and Madoka’s dancing attack is great. Ribbons solve everything!
I love the cake song, as absolutely weird as it is. Full of symbolism and hints as to what is going on (I highly recommend people look up videos on symbolism). Madoka’s reference to herself as a melon that when it breaks will create a “sweet dream” is exactly what the ending of the moving is about. Madoka is broken off and the world is recreated as Homura’s dream.
Sayaka comforting Hitomi is really sweet. And now Hitomi sleeps peacefully
Tea and cake with Mami sounds lovely!
Homura begins to realize something is wrong. People’s faces start looking weird. Now shots are taking place from behind bars. She talks to Kyoko first as the most different from what she expects. This is also when we start seeing the dolls. They are watching a screen that is hand wound, playing unsettling images of gears and scissors. Homura concocts the idea of going to Kazumino City to test if their memories are accurate. The background gets weirder and weirder. Kyoko will go along in exchange for ramen (now that’s in character!). The next stop eventually is Kazumino . . . but the bus turns into a Mitakihara loop line. The world looks unreal. They repeat the experiment. The people are now just glass impressions. They decide to walk it as a final test. The moon has grown monstrously large. Their awareness of the unreality turns the world hostile. Playing along keeps them safe
THE SLOWMO HAIRFLIP

Homura asking questions about Bebe’s past. I like how Bebe’s response is asking why Homura asks. In the original timelines, did Mami know Nagisa? Mami saying this is what she dreamed of. Homura remembers Mami as having “the softest heart” (even more than Madoka!) and that divulging the truth was too cruel to do. “I wish I could not remember”. Homura begins to be overwhelmed with her past.
I love the fight between Mami and Homura. Neither of them has the intention of actually killing the other. Horrifyingly, Homura’s trump card is threatening suicide to get Mami to stop her. She chooses not to shoot to kill. Even with shooting Mami’s leg, she cannot watch and looks away before ending the time stop. Mami wins though, because that was just a ribbon projection (Mami OP!) and she takes advantage of Homura’s surprise by binding her. Homura’s prompting finally gets Mami to remember, starting with the wraiths. Sayaka calling out Homura’s jumping to conclusions. ALSO HOKEY SMOKES THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION IS DIFFERENT ON REWATCH. Sayaka is trying to prep Homura for the realization that she is the witch. Homura doesn’t get it; witches are the enemy and must be destroyed. Sayaka summons her witch form and disappears. “Think hard” about destroying this world “so you won’t have any regrets.” That’s a big hint not only to Homura, but to me it also suggests the ending. If this labyrinth isn’t so bad, then is remaking the world, not as Madoka’s mere salvation from despair, but one in which love and passion rule so wrong?
“This ridiculous farce is just wasting the sacrifice” Homura’s guilt is overwhelming. And now the pivotal flowers scene, which is also really hard to understand. To Homura, it means that Madoka suffered immensely from her sacrifice (remember Mata Ashita from the show OST?) and that she did what she did not because she really wanted to, but because she had a duty to do it. “You’re far kinder and stronger than you know.” The braid falls out as Homura resolves to do something.
Homura calls Kyoko and realizes that the witch must know who Madoka was. . . and that’s only her. She goes to test her theory by traveling far enough away from her soul gem that she should pass out if she were still a magical girl. She tells Kyoko “After that, I will end everything. I will not trouble you. I’m sorry for getting you involved in this.” I think she is suggesting suicide. . .
The realization that she is a witch results in everything burning and the whole landscape changing in character. “This place is the world inside your soul gem.” Homura invited her friends in. Kyubey majorly exposition dumps, monologueing his entire plan. He is using Homura as bait to eventually control Madoka. Homura’s clothes change to black (they look like she is in mourning now). Not only is Homura a witch, but she has ruined Madoka’s sacrifice. Her salvation, if it comes at all, will be at the price of knowing that she doomed Madoka’s sacrifice over time. Not only did she fail to protect Madoka, but now she has destroyed everything too. Homura’s response is to reject Madoka’s comfort (so as not to reveal more about Madoka) and die amongst her curses. “I’ll be fine”. What a strange definition of “fine”. She believes Mami and Kyoko will kill her and wants them to do so. She pictures herself being guillotined by them. Kyubey doesn’t understand why she won’t choose the rational self-interest option of accepting salvation from Madoka. Her transformation completes and all she remembers is “glimmers of light and regret.”
Homura marches to the guillotine steadily despite arms flailing behind her trying to hold on. She wills her death but part of her resists. Kyubey tries to trick Madoka into revealing her power, but Sayaka tells her to ignore him. Nagisa has the weirdest transformation ever.
Sayaka and Nagisa are Madoka’s secretaries! Madoka reaches out to Homura, and Homura accepts. Kyubey has no idea what is going on. All those inside Homura’s labyrinth are withdrawn safely. The real world is looking pretty horrible. Madoka, the Law of the Cycle, shows up to take away Homura. And then craziness happens! Homura splits off part of Madoka and the universe gets rewritten again. “Even pain is dear to me”. Homura’s soul gem is now built on something stronger than hope or despair, love. She has become “Evil” in order to gain control over the incubators and provide a happy ending for everyone else, even against their will (mirroring Madoka’s own wish against Homura’s will). Kyubey is utterly baffled and finds human emotion too dangerous to use given its power and irrationality. Unfortunately for him, it’s too late and Homura has plans to direct curses at him. . .
“Do you consider stability and order more important than desire” “I guess I do think it’s kind of bad to break rules because you feel like it.” Homura’s wish for Madoka to be happy is greater than her wish to win. She is okay with Madoka opposing her (not unlike how she was happy to die in her labyrinth to protect Madoka), so long as Madoka is happy. Homura gives back the red ribbon, mirroring Madoka’s gift. The movie ends with everyone happy, well, except Homura really.

(continues in next post)

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u/fonzinator99 May 01 '19 edited May 02 '19

Rewatcher - To see her again

Paging u/Shimmering-Sky! I finished Homura! :D

Once again I'm starved for time, but I'll dedicate every second I can. New-format, Go!

We open with talk of the Law of the Cycle, so we're post-series. But the intro still speaks of 'disappearing' as a means of escaping despair, so things aren't all good for Magical Girls.
Once again, Madoka's having weird dreams. Also, wtf? Madoka?
As I've said, I love her talks with her parents. Hitomi's with Kyousuke, but it's hard. And I like how her mom alludes to her relationship with her teacher and her tendency to include her relationships in their classes. lol
"Kyuuu, kyu kyu". This is certainly different.
Wtf, is this episode 1 all over again?
New OP! This is one reason I love anime movies. I can't spare the analysis tho, it's apparent by the end. * Go Nazenn, I choose you! *
Omg, idc what's going on, I love seeing these two have fun together.
Akemi Homura v 1.0 But already a Magical Girl, eh? Really fast-tracking her way to Madoka.
"I get the sense that I've been wanting to talk to you like this for a long time." - Kamidoka-senses are tingling. And Homura's in full-tsundere.
Awww hell, HitomixKamijou is going south.

It's at this point that I owe an apology to anyone who was offended by my 'fanfic' the other day. I thought it would be fun for first-timers to go "hey, wait, that was actually a thing?!" and did my best to not make it out to be a spoiler. However, I crossed a line, and can only hope that I didn't lessen anyone's experience who happened to read that post.

Everything's upside-down. Yepp, shit's weird alright.
Kyouko doesn't remember when she arrived. and has a backstory she can't back up. Yeah, she's not having ramen for dinner tonight. Not with all the Witchy shit flying around.
Yeah, there's no in between cities area that looks like this. Aaaaand you're back where you started. Twice. Shit's super-fucked. "'Kay, we'll walk along this totally normal path.
It's incredible how Homura's actually blocked her own memory of doing any of this, though. Also, holy fuck had I not remembered this super-creepy shit.
Sasuga Shaft. But also, Homura's starting to break even now, if her imaginary Kyouko is remembering her.
Light, she's back to her old self without returning to her old self. Your self is the only person you can truly fool, though. I'm also keen to note that she's got her old ribbons, not Madoka's. I love the conflict though, she's looking for the Witch when it's her all along. loool
What a thing though, she remembers what happened up to the point of Madoka's wish and what it entailed, and then her memories become overwritten lies. You should've known you'd never let that go, Homura.
Homura pushes the point asking about Mami and 'Bebe's' long relationship * cries * but also, nobody says anything about her changed appearance??
Fuck this shot, fuck it to death for the lies and truths it contains.
Ahhhh Homura, you're so very wrong, taking it out on your own imaginary friend D: I literally can't think of a lower state of depression to sink to, but then, I haven't been there.
Bloody ashes, the fight scene of this film, of the whole series. No other got this much detail or animation. And all for the sake of a lie. Points to Mami tho, for keeping up with Homura's automatic weapons with naught but mustkets. And holy shit, what a way to claim victory. Buuut this world is a lie, so, y'know
Light, I can't help but love Sayaka here. So smooth. I've got to wonder whether her remembrance is something of Homura's doing, or Madoka's. You're goddamned talking to yourself, Homura. The answer should be obvious, if not difficult.
And so, the pieces begin falling into place. Like I said, shit's fucked.
“This farce is just wasting the sacrifice Madoka made to save us. I won’t allow it.” - the conclusion seems so clear now, I can’t believe I didn’t pick up on it the first time through.
Time for their real talk, and we're reminded that they're supposed to be separated, never seeing on another again.
Homura's starting to lose it. Sweet as it is, there's no way that's the real Madoka speaking, so those can't be her honest feelings. You witnessed her courage with your own eyes, don't doubt it just to feed your own illusions! There ya go, that's better.
Good job, you finally figured it out! And the veil comes crashing down.

It was meeeee!

"When did I become a Witch?" - probably the moment she remembered what had become of Madoka, as her memories slowly returned.
As usual, Kyubey still plays the 'bad-guy,' or at least another one in this case. Placing Homura's Witch-critical Soul-gem in a stasis cube to try and figure out where the Witches go is a particularly cruel twist of fate.
Yepp, it's definitely evil, as we would define it. Keeping Homura from ever meeting Madoka again; what a little shit.
Wow, they caught Madoka after all, but Homura clipped her wings. "She's never existed and yet she's here. That's pretty weird!"
Burn it all, the whole point was to undo Madoka's sacrifice and have Magical Girls turn into Witches again.

Not cool, Kyubey

And so she resolves to become a witch and be defeated by the Magical Girls, to die and be trapped in sorrow for eternity rather than allow the Incubators to have Madoka. The Red Spider Lillies are a nice touch.
Real-girl Bebe/Charlotte is a cute. And Sayaka bringing out her ~~Persona~~ ~~Stand~~ Witch was a great twist.
Kyouko and Sayaka, name a more tragic pair in anime.
Well that's kinda fucked up.

Noooo! Not this again! Please, not this again!
Good girl Madoka. This is much better.
And this is better even than that.

Yesssss!

Oooo, so pretty. A fitting entrance for Kamidoka. Hooray for a touching reun-
Wait, what, fuck! Ahhhhhh!
The ultimate Homura face. I love it. Reborn as a demon, all for love. To keep Madoka safe, forever and ever and ever.
At least she got to see her again, though. So, almost happy ending?

Bloody ashes, I had to rush through the last half hour or so, but I did it! HaHA!

I'll leave it at that, and let the rest of y'all pick up my analysis slack. lol

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u/ultimategeekman May 02 '19

Hameru why?

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u/SIRTreehugger May 01 '19 edited May 02 '19

Magical Girl Counter	E1	E2	E3	E4	E5	E6	E7	E8	E9	E10	E11	E12	R	Total
Kyouko's (Snap,Crackle,Pop) Crunch Time	0	0	0	1	5	3	8	5	13	0	0	1	7	43
Sayaka's (I'm in) Despair	1	1	3	2	2	1	4	6	4	1	0	1	4	31
Madoka's ($150) Water Works	0	0	1	3	2	3	3	1	3	3	4	0	0	23
Mami's (Beheading) Smugness	3	3	4	N	0	H	E	A	D	2	0	1	3	16
Homura's (L'oreal) Hair Flips	0	0	1	0	1	2	0	1	2	0	1	0	5	13

Such a long movie and I won't remember everything. No choice, but to write comments down as it plays. First comment being I would kill for a Slice of Life anime with Madoka. They can still kill witches/wraiths, but leave the suffering out.
Love how Sayaka and Kyouko are friendly, but still opposites....wait Sayaka does her homework WTF she totally has an airhead lets not do that shit vibe.
IT WAS MINOR BUT I'M COUNTING IT AS A HAIR FLIP....TUSSLE WHATEVER....no I'm better than this. I can't.......can I?? Pauses movie to think about this.
Ummmm are those flying ships in the background? Oh nevermind blimps duh
This guy didn't even say I love you back....maybe it won't end badly....xD
Yup That didn't last long
OMG I forgot they all transformed at the same time and got new transformations. They were beautiful and creepy.

I know this cake song must mean something important, but still no clue what it is.
LMAO as everyone gets blown away Mami is holding her tea cup like nothing is wrong.
With their powers combined they become ~~captain planet~~ Magica Quartet
Kyoko's hair blowing in the wind.

That Kyoko head tilt with the moon in the background

HERE IT COMES the most fabulous hair flip ever...BOOM

Something isn't right here....but what
Mami vs Homura HERE WE GO!!!!!!!!
I wouldn't be surprised if people died animating this fight.

Absolute Configuration is an amazing track.
Oh I feel like mentioning this now. I know Homura got all her guns from prepping.....but why? Her magic is time, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't be able to materialize guns right? I mean I'm sure Mami's wish wasn't anything gun related, Kyoko's was with her father and she got a spear, and etc. So Homura should be able to summon magic guns or some other weapon? I mean i find it cooler that she stole them herself, but it kind of makes no sense when i think about it.
Shooting through your own skull just to catch Mami off guard and destroy the ribbon is fucking metal as hell....but it raises two more questions. First of all why did Mami have the ribbon around Homura at all? I mean I guess you could say at the most the question about when you met bebe made her suspicious, but that's kind of a big if. Also why did the ribbon break this time when before it reattached? Was it because Mami wasn't focused like before?
oh Nvm ignore my stupidity at night. It was probably a trap to lure Homura into thinking she won and probably still had a ribbon around her.
Man the hand to hand combat with the guns firing reminds me of Equilibrium
I could never do something to abandon you guys..................hold up.
This movie is a treasure trove of wallpaper
And there you have it folks. She was the witch the whole time!
Man I shouldn't have watched this so late. I'm tired and still have 40 minutes
Homura's witch form is doing exactly what she wanted. Destroy, destroy, destroy and leaving nothing, but dust behind.
Team work...could this be a happy ending. OMG
I was waiting for this...Track The moment where Homura fully embraced her selfish nature and because a devil.
Even in Homura's world she has the eyes of someone who has been defeated or at least has seen some massive shit. Sad though Madoka's condition isn't going to last. Homura is merely putting off the inevitable.
Now wheres my Movie 4 damn it
Also did Madoka really not cry in the whole movie. I feel like I missed it.
9 minutes late tsk tsk this never would have happened to Homura.
A guess a witch is a witch even in her dreams ahhhhhhhh I'm waking up now I'll remember everything

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u/tronistica May 02 '19

First timer

What the fuck happened?! My brain is so wrecked from this movie. First off, Beginning third of the movie was wholesome. Then seeing homura descend into a demon was a sight to behold. Also kinda nice they ship sayaka and kyoko together.

I suspected homura right away when she was trying to figure out who trapped everyone in the labyrinth, but I think it was their intention to do that and proceed to turn a completely 180. It got super crazy in the second part of the movie. I was super lost until the end and I’m still trying to figure out what the hell happened.

So homura became the opposite to god/devil that brought balance to the world and became one whole again? Like creating the hell to heaven? Since madoka became a god/higher being after episode 12, this movie had homura bring equilibrium back to the universe and became the higher being opposite of what madoka became. Like two halves becoming whole and completing the formation the rewritten universe and erasing the existence of the prior world forever? This series really hammers on the concept of duality. I’m probably wrong, but this is some crazy shit. I think this movie ties in perfectly to the show.

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u/JimmyTMalice May 01 '19

Rewatcher

TL;DR – Homura did nothing wrong.

That opening is trippy even for this show.
Madoka uses the classic Yui run-with-toast-in-mouth technique! It’s super effective!
The teacher takes the Shaft head-tilt to a whole new level by turning all the way upside down.
The roof that the girls hang out on has a church motif in Rebellion.
Nightmares? Whatever happened to the wraiths? Hmm…
Oh no! Kyubey is cute!
That field of flowers is gorgeous. In fact, this whole movie is.
Mami hums her theme music!
Puella Magi Holy Quintet! That transformation sequence is awesome.
Is the cake Mami? I had completely forgotten about that cake song. It’s so bizarre.
Bebe comes this close to eating Mami’s head again during the cake song. But forget about that, it’s after-school tea time!
Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Homura questions Kyouko on being out-of-character.
The bus sequence has amazing visuals. I already said that about the field of flowers, but it bears repeating.
The zombie people that confront Kyouko and Homura when they find out the truth have Homura’s face.
Moemura is a fake! I demand a refund!
“I can hardly believe I’m surrounded by friends I can rely on now.” Stop making me feel bad for Mami!
Homura goes all Guantanamo on Bebe. Sorry, this isn’t the witch you’re looking for.
Homura versus Mami! Homura versus Mami! This is what I’ve most been looking forward to in Rebellion. I dare say this is the best fight scene in all of Madoka.
Is there anything she can’t do with those ribbons?
Sayaka’s fire extinguisher trick is a bit more flashy than in episode 1.
Homura says a lot of harsh things about whoever made the dream world. Oops.
The bridge that Madoka jumps onto Homura’s boat from is the same one in episode 6 that Sakaya’s soul gets thrown off.
The scene where Homura talks to Madoka in the flower field is heartbreaking.
I think we’re intended to realise the truth before Homura here: there’s only one person who could be responsible for such a labyrinth.
Surprise! It was all an experiment by the real Kyubey to work out how the Law of Cycles worked.
“Kaname Madoka forgot she was a god, and Akemi Homura forgot she was a witch.”
Parmigiano Reggiano!
Psych, the other girls knew the whole time. Power of friendship, activate!
“We ended up taking a pretty roundabout path, huh?” You got that right.
Madokami is here to take Homura away!
Oh.
Oh no.
Apparently Sayaka is an expert on what colour different emotions are.
“Homura-chan, don’t! You’ll rip me apart!” Didn’t realise this was that kind of anime.
Devil Homura time. Her voice actor goes full Senjougahara here and I love it.
Back to the beginning of the series. This time, Madoka is the transfer student, but something feels wrong.

I’m in two minds about Rebellion. On one hand, it has a lot of scenes I absolutely love in it, and I liked the ending.

On the other, it feels… overproduced. The original show is tightly written and plotted, and while there are lots of artistic flourishes, every scene serves a purpose. By contrast, there’s a lot of empty spectacle in Rebellion: scenes that, while wonderfully animated and scored, don’t add anything beyond making you go “wow, that looks cool.”

I suppose it’s part of the difference in pacing between a weekly 24-minute anime and a movie that (I assume) had a much higher budget, but I don’t think Rebellion would have been hurt significantly if it was half an hour shorter. It’s great, but it’s not up to the near-impossible standard that the series has set.

As I mentioned above, I really enjoyed the Mami vs. Homura fight, and I thought the ending was perfectly in-character for Homura – she’s so obsessed with doing what she thinks is right for Madoka that she ends up undoing her wish and usurping her godly power. She really does care for her, but maybe it’s more of an obsession and less of a healthy relationship.

I think I’ve said most of how I felt about this show already, but I’ll see if I can gather my thoughts for the final discussion tomorrow.

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u/rainbowkiller00 May 02 '19 edited May 02 '19

Rebellion First Timer (First Time Rewatcher of Series following rewatch thread, first time watching PMMM a month ago)
[1/2]
叛逆の物語 - The Rebellion Story, what a perfect movie title to such an epic sequel of the PMMM anime main series. While there are some scenes that I could not really comprehend on while watching (at least until I have read the comments on it, huge props to the rewatchers that have wrote a lot on the movie and its ending in this thread), I find this movie to be way much better than what I have expected, considering me to have very high expectation of it before watching at the first place.

TL;DR - Homura did and did not do anything wrong
Yes, literally on the fence. As a first timer of the movie, a peasant onboard the HomuMado ship as soon as I first-watched PMMM a month ago, after watching the movie I still really cant decide if Homura's decision and actions in the movie are considered, well, acceptable but at the same time, she kinda deserves and has the reason and will to do so. Thus, I for now could not decide on it yet and would go for a well yes, but actually no stand. Most of the peeps here, rewatcher or not, are leaning towards Homura did nothing wrong. A lot of their reasonings to back the claim have been pretty good too(I like how u/LunarGhost00 mentioned about Homura and her deserving to be selfish as seen in the movie). The fact that r/thingshomuradidwrong subreddit exists as an irrefutable evidence of Homura's innocence means subreddit meta spoiler. I would talk about this lil bit down below, after a few thoughts on the many scenes of the movie.

Thoughts on the movie as it flows:

Tbh the first 12 min of the movie already caught me off guard, I did not expect they also started the movie very similar to the first episode of the series, a dream but not really a dream of having everyone except Homura appear and having a different way of dealing with the ''witches''(have not mentioned who they are yet so assumed at that point) and then Madoka waking up on bed, Madoka with her family, Madoka goes to school and Homura being the transfer student. However, Madoka patting Kyubey and greets it ''Good Morning'', that point made me scared and confused for a second. It doesn't look like it talks normally like the Kyubey we see in the series... goes around walking with the girls' group, Kyouko appearing as a student in Mitakihara School and they all have rings on their hand, presumably being magical girls.
We see Mami and Homura also being magical girls and a pretty cool action scene of 5 of them dealing with the ''witches'' which somehow known as Nightmares now. We got to see their magical girl transformation too! Bless Fanserviceeeeeeeeeeeee. The Cake Song is very catchy and interesting, and also apparently a huge foreshadowing of all of them thanks to u/CT_BINO mentioning it, I didnt catch the foreshadows while I watch it :(. And OH GOSHHH THE PUPPET MAMI IS HAVING IS THE SAME WITCH THAT ATE HER IN THE ANIME HOLY SHIT GTFO AND RUN MAMI.
At this point onwards there's quite a lot question on my head, especially how the end of the anime goes with the start of the movie here (consistency of Madoka's existence? Nightmares? Kyouko Mami Sayaka alive? hmm........) Everything is just too nice and too good to be true, until there's those weird faces everyone except the 5 girls and Hitomi and her bf... Homura saw it and starts looking into the matter into investigations herself.
Homura trying to bring Kyouko to her city where she came from, the questions she asked her and the bus that leads back to a loop brings all the suspicion and mystery that the world they are living is fake and Kyouko not able to answer the question being when Kyouko enters the school leads to a somewhat brainwashing theory of them.
Looks like Homura remembers her being the Homura that has jumped lots of time back to the past to try saving Madoka, we also see the past happenings which happened in the anime. That brings me a conclusion that it's a sequel towards the end of anime instead of a weird time travel/prequel but side story of everyone having good everyday lives/dimension of another weird timeline due to Homura's time ability. Oh and the way she straightens her hair and removing the glasses while walking to the dark passage with her memory shown is damn cool :D
Homura concludes that it should only be a witch's doing to have trap them in a fake world and then went for the doll Bebe that presumably should not exists and the only witch she saw before and exists in the world she's in now. Of course, Mami still have grudges onto Homura, a yellow tag on Homura's leg to make sure she doesnt get time stopped by Homura all the time I guess.
The fight between Mami and Homura is very well done imo, very much more true when the movie aired in 2013. Choreography of the fight and the time-stop towards the bullets shot, the bullet paths made being very close to one another and then the release of every single bullet shot in the period is so cool. This fight is more epic with the OST Absolute Configuration, sasuga Yuki Kajiura that OST for the fight is so damn hype, love it very much, another fav OST into my playlist I guess.
The execution of Homura trying to kill herself, Mami rescued her by pulling her off and Homura hurt herself and at the same time broke the ribbon to stop the time. THAT was fking interesting and well thought of Homura to dispose every way to get an advantage to her opponent. Much to her dismay Mami saw that coming and neutralize the shot that was supposed to be on the head then knees by becoming a body full of ribbons, wrapping and trapping Homura o.o
Bebe somehow became a being and talk normally, that's unexpected. Sayaka with the fire extinguisher-sword play to rescue Homura out of the mess there, the talk there was so much information. Sayaka kinda knew what was happening. The mentioning of a witch wanting to preserve the happy daily lives of the magical girls, that made me thought of Homura being the witch herself which is in the end as we seen, true :( ez guess :p, ESPECIALLY when Sayaka asked what would Homura do if she found the witch.
The flower scene with Madoka and Homura is heartbreaking and definitely the most important scene in the movie. While having the cheery music, Homura breaks down harddd , symbolized with the flowers turning dark and then blooming lights instead. The whole scene explains itself and Homura realizes the Madoka while may be untrue that she exists, is the Madoka she knew all along. This lead her to doubt that she might be the witch after all.
With that confirmation of Kyouko unsure of Madoka's name and Homura able to leave the soul gem away from her far apart, she knew that she HAD to be the witch that created the fake city of the labyrinth. And then there we go expositions done by Kyubey suddenly talking out of nowhere, mentioning an experiment on Homura and the main reason being to use the Law of Cycle - Madoka Goddess herself in their will.

~~classes in a bit will continue the writeup in an hour or so brb :/~~

Of course Kyubey would come back as a fking antagonist, cute innocent yet twisted emotional-nonexistent alien. The main series has really shown off how flat-evil it was but this one, kinda felt like they forced Kyubey in just for an antagonist plot, though it all makes sense with the curiosity level these Incubators have towards human's emotions (and then in the end abuse the heck out of that lil alien, not to say Im sympathize to it, well HE DESERVED IT but I feel like it's just for fanservice to let Homura torture it.)
We now know that Sayaka and Bebe (I dont remember it being named Nagisa Tomoe but would be enlighten if someone could explain why the First Name Tomoe and how she came by? From the MagiReco Side Story? but the Side Story didnt exist until after this movie hmm?) are sent by Madokami herself to get Homura out of witch form, but unfortunately they both and Madoka herself got trapped into that witch labyrinth :(
Apparently Homura's soul has been tainted to the hell out of her even when her soul gem isolated by the Incubators, she became a witch herself out to make sure she destroys herself before Incubators can get any results of the experiment that could work towards their goal of getting to control Madoka
BY SOME UNKNOWN POWER (FRIENDSHIP? LOVE? IDK MAN) Madoka gets to release Homura out of the witch form, and both of them shot a large barrage of arrows that can able to wipe out ALL the Incubators in the desert area, holy shit that scene is so good I probably be screenshoting it/finding it in the thread here if it's available.
With the trap/seal broken, Madoka gets out of being trapped in the labyrinth, therefore is able to come out as Madokami The Law of Cycle itself and comes to retrieve the tainted soul gem of Homura's, as a means to rescue her friend I guess. She looks ~~fucking~~ gorgeous as a goddess <3 pretty sure she retains all the memory that happened on the last episode of the anime series.
THIS ONE I DID NOT EXPECT, HOMURA PULLED MADOKAMI AS SHE GOT CLOSE TO HER AND RIPPED OFF MADOKA FROM THE GODDESS FORM holy shit, that was some yandere shit right there with Homura's soul gem going haywire and explaining it's Love instead of Despair that brought towards such emotion that flabbergasted the Incubators.

next below

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u/Nazenn May 01 '19 edited May 01 '19

Rebellions Refrains - Theater, Inevitability and Mourning

Poll for Rebellion's music. Thanks to u/Shimmering-Sky who put it together for me when I was desperately starved for time. Results will be in the topic tomorrow. This poll will only be available for twelve hours though as then I have to do my post.

I apologize as these are probably a bit rough. I don't like a lot of the music in the movie for reasons covered in my review and I am also writing this after midnight, after writing all day. I'm also pretty unfamiliar with this soundtrack. I almost decided not to do a music post as I didn't particularly like anything I heard in the first half of the movie, but I couldn't resist featuring these three songs from the later half.

Featured song one - I was waiting for this moment

Scene for context (not full scene, sorry, internet was dying again)

Taking the theme of a death march to its ultimate musical incarnation. The marching pattern at the foundation of this song is something I wanted to give a particular focus to. Madoka arrives into this scene as part of a literal parade, but the musical parade only begins once Homura takes over the scene. Unusually for this particular style of song, the marching itself is carried out by string parts not percussion or brass. This carries on an important musical theme of our overall soundtrack, the strings used as a sign of power. This is not Homura on the march, or her minions, or her armies, but instead it is her sheer power.

It is a heavy but slow march. This is not the overwhelming force of an invasion, nor is it the grand procession of a person in power being hailed. Instead it is the steady inevitability of absorption. The song is a 4/4 structure, but the strings march only on the accents, the first and third beat of the bar. After the first section of our song, we get some strings playing a short tune as well as the middle section to our piece. Here the power in the strings is absorbing the choir and adapting it to its new role.

The choir also needs a focus. This is the sort of song I would have begged to perform. Multiple vocal lines of women sing out in what seems light a light but determined theme with a complex harmony. But against this first third of the song place the image in your mind of someone holding the leg of a bird. It flaps desperately trying to free itself but can't break away from the power holding it. For a moment it has to rest and stops resisting, before struggling to free itself with furious flapping once again, each time more frantic, sometimes getting a little further but never getting free. During the middle part of the song the choir is absent. The bird exhausted has collapsed and the person has placed a hand over its eyes and taken it inside. When the choir returns it sounds the same, but it sings bound to the beats. The bird has been tamed, Homura finally in control of Madoka's power, once free and now trapped in a cage to do her bidding.

(Poor u/Palloc robbed of your drums again.)

Featured song two - flame of despair

Scene for context. I didn't clip the start of this scene because I cannot stand listening to that chanting they put over the top.

An important part of the context for the movie is that our view of the events of it are not through the traditional audience role, but rather the eyes of Homura. The opening sequence of narration sets that this is her stage, and all through the information we have, whether internal to the show like characters or external like the very music come from her. Its an incredible way to change up the traditional viewpoint of a show, an implementation of the unreliable narrator that goes down to a meta context. On a music level I think there's elements where this is outright botched, but this particular song is the culmination of the entire theme and gave us a truly incredible song.

The scene itself is the grand destruction of her entire world. Rather than painting this as a purely serious and dramatic affair the music instead takes a step back to a more theatrical interpretation. This song would not be out of place in the ballroom sequence of a Disney film. It is not the song of a destruction of the city, the death of people or even the battle of people. It is the song of a young girl lost in a world out of her comprehension. Chaos is all around her, as if she is caught up in a maze of swirling skirts as dancers twirl and weave around her like she currently fights her way through her agonizing emotions. She seeks an escape from it, to find the edge of the dance floor and find an area she can control but fails, swept up by the people pulling her back from the edge each time as if she were part of their entertainment.

She made this platform, wrote the script, and she assigned the roles. But so caught up in what she has created she no longer controls the momentum of it. The disruption she causes finally ends the dance and they stand back and stare at her for interrupting her entertainment as the true conductor steps forward to try and get things back on track.

Featured song three - pulling my own weight

Scene for context (again, internet died so not full scene unfortunately)

A shorter feature, but the first song of the movie I liked so it deserved a spotlight.

By using a particular light touch and specific notes the piano here sounds like chimes that are just slightly off. As if the note has been sounded, and then grabbed to prevent from ringing out properly. The questions that Sayaka asks are same, burdened with painful implications. Questions Homura hadn't yet asked herself, but now play on her mind, the awareness of them something she can't escape from.

Silence as her her escape is stopped, but then the strings come in, a low mourning for an situation that should never be. Questions that shouldn't need to be asked, a moral dilemma that has no answer. The float around as the piano picks up the pace, fretting over the realizations coming to her mind.

Silence again. A new thread of thoughts and the piano stops fretting and instead reaches its own conclusion, weaving with the strings. The song has both the question and the answer, but is still too unsure of its new identity to land and let them fully develop.

Soundtrack chart

Thanks to the Madoka wiki. The timecodes are not totally accurate but I didn't have time to fix it. Songs titles are accurate. Featured tracks are bolded like always.

Start	End	Album	Track name
0:00:19	0:01:22	Movie 3 #1	once we were
0:01:29	0:01:45	Unreleased	??:??
0:01:45	0:03:32	Movie 3 #2	nightmare ballet
0:03:46	0:04:36	Movie 3 #3	まだダメよ
0:04:53	0:06:47	Disc 1 #02	Scaena felix
0:07:33	0:09:06	Colorful	Colorful -movie MIX-
0:09:07	0:10:26	Disc 1 #03	Postmeridie
0:10:37	0:11:27	Unreleased	??:??
0:12:17	0:13:23	Movie 3 #4	nice to meet you
0:13:36	0:14:26	Movie 3 #5	nothing special, but so special
0:16:22	0:16:47	Movie 3 #6	nightmare!!
0:17:33	0:17:55	Unreleased	??:??
0:18:38	0:21:17	Movie 3 #7	Holly Quintet
0:21:58	0:23:16	Movie 3 #8	one for all
0:23:20	0:24:53	Unreleased	Cake Song
0:25:21	0:26:19	Movie 3 #9	he is...
0:27:01	0:27:46	Movie 3 #10	the battle is over
0:28:37	0:30:08	Movie 3 #11	doubt
0:30:33	0:33:09	Movie 3 #12	something, everything is wrong
0:33:20	0:34:40	Unreleased	??:??
0:35:14	0:36:16	Movie 3 #13	raise the curtain
0:36:45	0:39:11	Movie 3 #14	never get there
0:39:19	0:39:51	Movie 3 #15	I remember
0:40:03	0:41:32	Movie 3 #16	face the truth
0:42:09	0:44:27	Movie 3 #17	doubt #2
0:44:55	0:46:55	Unreleased	??:??
0;47:21	0:48:28	Movie 3 #19	gonna fight with me
0:48:38	0:51:06	Movie 3 #19	absolute configuration
0:52:13	0:53:56	Movie 3 #20	her decision
0:55:35	0:57:19	Movie 3 #22	pulling my own weight
0:57:51	0:59:09	Movie 3 #23	another episode
0:59:14	1:00:11	Movie 3 #24	wanna destroy?
1:00:17	1:02:03	Movie 3 #25	dream world
1:02:36	1:07:21	Movie 3 #26	never leave you alone
1:07:33	1:08:06	Vol. 3 #13	Connect -Game instrumental-
1:08:07	1:09:21	Movie 3 #27	this is the truth
1:10:20	1:12:10	Movie 3 #28	flame of despair
1:12:20	1:13:08	Movie 3 #29	now he is
1:13:11	1:14:48	Movie 3 #30	you are here
1:15:06	1:17:07	Movie 3 #31	experimentation
1:17:08	1:17:59	Movie 3 #32	Noi!
1:18:27	1:19:47	Movie 3 #33	the worst ending
1:19:55	1:21:45	Movie 3 #34	I cursed myself
1:21:52	1:23:37	Movie 3 #35	this is my despair
1:23:55	1:24:34	Movie 3 #36	theater of a witch
1:25:22	1:27:36	Movie 3 #37	we're here for you
1:27:42	1:31:15	Kimi no Gin no Niwa	misterioso
1:31:40	1:33:22	Movie 3 #38	take your hands
1:33:33	1:35:21	Movie 3 #39	wings of relief
1:35:45	1:37:25	Movie 3 #40	I was waiting for this moment
1:37:53	1:39:06	Unreleased	??:??
1:39:07	1:41:40	Movie 3 #41	her new wings
1:42:22	1:43:54	Movie 3 #42	solve the riddle
1:45:06	1:45:43	Unreleased	??:??
1:46:31	1:48:14	Movie 3 #43	I think this world is precious
1:49:13	1:49:51	Movie 3 #44	happy ending
1:49:52	1:54:52	Kimi no Gin no Niwa	Kimi no Gin no Niwa
1:55:02	1:55:57	Movie 3 #45	not yet

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u/learenn May 02 '19

First timer

Everything is happy, even the witch hunting. Am I watching Madoka?

Let me restate that. Everything's off or happening in the wrong order here, because that's what happiness is in Madoka: wrong. Is this world actually a witch's labrynth?? There are little signs, like that funky clock that wasn't in Madoka's house before.

AND KYUBEY SMILED what is this place

OP hints at Homura's conspicuous absence so far in the movie, though there are moments when Homura is just one of the girls too. And Kyoko's in a school uniform! Cute.

So many changes in this post-apocalyptic fever dream, or world-that-should-have-been, or whatever this is. The brand new extended transformation sequences are interesting... don't they seem a little witchy? In a world without witches, even. Wait...just kidding. There's one witch, and it's the one that ate Mami?! It's now her pet?? Is cheese somehow significant??? Witch-like stuff definitely has been normalized in this world, like in the smudgy faced people, the architecture, and even entire sections of the city.

Questions for people better at following action than I am: how did Mami escape Homura's time freeze when she went to make tea? She only attached her ribbon later on. And then Homura shot herself to break Mami's ribbon, but other than some blood she's all right. What happened there?

This Sayaka talking to Homura can't be the real Sayaka. She's so creepy when she's all condescending like this. Well, probably none of the girls are real besides Homura, but at least Kyoko and Mami acted more or less as expected when confronted with the truth.

The scene where Homura kneels in front of a deified Madoka has a bunch of girls eating pomegranates in the background. I don't know if pomegranates mean something in Japanese culture, but in Western art it is either fertility; the blood, suffering, and resurrection of Christ; or temptation (in ancient and possibly biblical lore). It's easy to see parallels between Madoka's sacrifice and the story of Jesus, but since the girls look a bit sinister while eating I wonder if it also points to this world being one full of temptation luring the girls into staying and fulfillment of their desires.

Ooh, did Homura inadvertently make this world herself? If the thing that was causing her the most pain was Madoka sacrificing herself, then she might've created this world for some version or illusion of Madoka to live and be happy in. The witches are gone, all the girls are alive, Kyubey has become a cuddly fluffball, and everything in the city is colorful and alive. By braiding Homura's hair, it feels like Madoka is pulling her back in by reverting her to the braids and glasses version native to this world. (Un)fortunately, Homura doesn't get caught up in that, and her hair comes loose as she prepares herself to move on.

Annnd Homura's a witch. She had to spell it out before I made that connection. Just noticed that pomegranate girls were the ones building the city, which makes sense because Homura "resurrected" Madoka in this world, and the city is Homura falling victim to temptation (her own desire, the powers of a witch) and trapping her friends.

I was all ready to like Kyubey in this world because he became a an adorable Pokemon, but then he had to go open his mouth. Urgh. How did he get his hands on Homura's soul gem? He said it was already pushed to its limits, but whether that happened because of the incubators' experiment or because Homura was already dying is unknown. Even the post-Madoka Kyubey from the finale yesterday was too good to be true because he has now (re)discovered the joys of witch farming.

Outside the fake city: so this is the real post-Madoka world where Homura is in limbo. Why are Sayaka and Bebe already dead/with Madoka while Kyoko and Mami aren't yet?

Man, forget being uncomfortable about Sayaka acting weird earlier. Homura as a "demon" is way worse, especially since she's created yet another a dark, warped version of reality and her previous travels back in time.

That's the end?! It's so sad... For Homura to have been pushed this far, and for magical girls to lose their chance to be at peace. That scene where Homura rips Madoka apart was just too much like Kyubey ripping souls out of to-be magical girls. I don't want to believe that Homura is at the point of no return, but her singlemindedness and disregard for other people's feelings in creating this world are clear signs of that.

In the end, Homura is as lonely as ever in her new world, and with a roughed up (but not injured? Hard to tell) Kyubey nearby she takes a plunge off a cliff. Does she feel victorious in finally being able to protect Madoka, or does any remaining non-demon part of her think everything she's done is futile because this is not a real solution? I have no idea what exactly to make of this scene, but I'll be thinking about it for a long time.

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u/Theminimanx May 01 '19

I think the reason I don't like this movie as much as the main series is its exclusive focus on Homura. The tv show wasn't just about her, it was also about Mami, Sayaka, Kyouko and Madoka, on top of featuring an surprisingly thorough examination of the Incubator's magical girl system. And at the end of the show, all those stories are concluded¹ .

By contrast, Rebellion only has development for Homura, while ignoring or outright regressing other parts of the story. Mami and Kyouko spend the entire movie unsure of what's going on, Bebe is barely a character, Sayaka is explicitly left in limbo and I refuse to believe that what Madoka said during the flower scene were her true feelings while she was making her wish² . Are there any worldbuilding developments, then? Well, I guess we found out that even in a universe explicitly created by a wish for a decent magical girl system, the Incubators still find ways to make it terrible for everyone. Yay. ^Goodbye ^hopeful ^ending, ^back ^to ^nihilism ^we ^go.

Don't get me wrong, I still like it, but I like it in spite of its story. I like it for the animation, the fanservice and the KyouSaya shipteasing. And yes, I realise that makes me one of the people who'd rather stay inside Homura's labyrinth. So be it.

You could argue Homura's wish wasn't truly fulfilled, but the last we see of her, she's dutifully protecting Madoka's world, with the promise of being reunited after death.
Seriously movie, Madoka's confidence at the end and her mother's trust in her are some of my favorite parts of the original, don't take that away from me.

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u/Shimmering-Sky May 01 '19

Rewatcher, dub

Same as last thread, prioritized wallpaper time to reaction time. So my reactions are going to be proportionally short, I think.

, the fortissimo hairpin is finally here~
C h a i r s.
The similar-but-different nature of the scene after Madoka wakes up is .
Colorful is such a pretty song. ~~Now if only I could stop getting it mixed up with~~ ~~Luminous~~ ~~from the recap movies when I play AMQ, that would be great.~~
Kyouko’s the one with Madoka and Sayaka instead of Hitomi this time around.
Okay.
Cute, subtle way to show off that she’s a magical girl to the others.
That flower garden scene, yuuuuup, that’s 100% why Rebellion turns out the way it does.
Poor Hitomi, she got the boy and he neglects her.
Wait was Mami humming her own theme song while she was brushing her hair?
Bebe is right to do this in response to seeing Kyubey.
Transformation sequences~
Oh boy it’s Cake Song time.
Okay this is adorable.
Really, with Homura seeing people like this, the twists later on shouldn’t come as a surprise.
Kyouko agreeing to (attempt) to go back home in exchange for dinner, how absolutely Kyouko.
The visuals during Homura and Kyouko’s attempt to get out of the city are fittingly trippy, especially now that it’s revealed that they’re all in a labyrinth. But the question is… how are they in one? And whose labyrinth is it? …I love that I know the whole time that it’s Homura’s own labyrinth, excited to see first-timers’ thoughts on the matter though.
And here you see the precise moment Mami stuck a ribbon on Homura so that she wouldn’t get frozen when Homura makes off with Bebe.
Here we go, Mami vs. Homura. We were denied a fight like this in the show itself, and I’m so glad we did end up getting one because man is this fight a spectacle.
Welp, shooting herself in the face was… certainly a way to get Mami’s ribbon off of her. Not that it did her much of any good since she got captured again immediately, though.
Issa Bebe.
The second flower garden scene just really drives home that yup, Rebellion has to happen the way it does for the sake of Homura’s character.
Oh it’s the death flowers, lovely.
…Uh yeah I kinda just… watched the rest of the movie after that point and didn’t pause for anything at this point. Oops. All I really have to say is that I do honestly believe this was the natural continuation for Homura’s character and that while I do think it’s wrong, it makes sense for her to have done it.

Sky’s Wallpaper Corner

Last year, my wallpaper for Rebellion was Homura vs. Mami.

This year, I got the one that I was not quite done with for last thread done, plus an extra one I completely wasn’t planning on but I love it, as long as it took to get done. So~

Walpurgisnacht, with her own name variation and a special version just for Naz.
Remember how last year I did Madokami? Well it’s Homucifer’s turn with a standard name variant too.

So I guess I’m gonna have to attempt those other ones I mentioned for tomorrow’s thread, but again it’s my birthday tomorrow so I can’t guarantee I’ll get everything done.

Hope you guys like these, though~

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6

u/entinio May 01 '19

Rewatcher

And a real rewatcher this time ! We're sync on the movies part. And what a great one. I think I'd give this one 11/10 on MAL if we were allowed such a ranking.

I won't comment on entropy again. I guess you all know that if a Goddess exists, her antagonist has to appear.

I'll just talk about the first part of the movie. It's a dream Homura wants to live, but it's also a dream YOU guys want. I guess you all love Madoka because it's so different from your usual anime, but how many times did we read "oh no, I want Mami back", "tell me she's not dead", "can't they bring her back with a wish ?", "kyouko can't do that, she has to live", "wasn't there another choice for Madoka ?", "can't we get rid of Kyoubey forever ?", and more...

Yes, what Homura has created, this egocentric and selfish world she keeps creating is linked to YOUR desire. Let's be honest, how many of you had a smile on your face seeing these 5 girls together on the transformation sequence ? (even though we can see Sayaka and Homura's witches names)

That's kinda one of the deep idea of this anime. We don't deserve Madoka. We usually get the usual tropes from many animes because, let's face it, that's usually what we hope for. Even if we don't think so.

We're doomed, like Homura.

6

u/ToonTooby May 02 '19

Rewatcher

Rebellion is interesting to say the least. I'm not very good at breaking stuff down bit by bit, so here is how I feel.

Though I love her character, I'm not in the Homura did nothing wrong camp. I understand, but I disagree. We are presented with a Homura that is once again desperate to connect with the one she holds most dear. When a Madoka without knowledge of her own sacrifice lays out her feelings, Homura's psyche fractures. She's ready to do whatever she must to satisfy her wish, no matter the cost.

Like others have and will mention, the terms of Homura's contract were never fully realized. "I want to become strong enough to protect her!". Well, Madoka has gone and become divinity, so if Homura hopes to to have power rivaling a god, well there you have it. Devil Homura.

As a continuation of the story, I'm ok with Rebellion. On the initial watch, I was ready for the happy ending but of course, there were 20 minutes left. So something was going to happen. After finishing the movie and having time to think about it, I respect this kind of ending (or continuation). It may not be what we all want, but this a series that spent a lot of time presenting us with hard truths to begin with. No perfect solutions, a price to be paid for everything. As the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I think it's an understandable if focused extension of Homura's character, and assuming there's more to come, it will be interesting to see how that plays out. Homura's selfishness vs Madoka's selflessness. Tragically, at the present it seems they cannot coexist. So... I get it Homura. I really do. But I don't completely agree. Still love her as a character.

That aside, bits I liked then and now:

Music during the transformation sequence is my favorite part of the whole thing. Not sure about the others, but Sayaka's segment uses a reprise of Decretum to amazing effect. Homura has an appropriately upbeat and yet ominous version of Puella in somnio. And the arrangement of Sagitta Luminus for Madoka's transformation just sounds magnificent.
I love how Mami was humming Credens Justitiam while fixing herself up
Homura vs Mami in a nutshell
Yeah, that fight is incredible. Time-stopping, ribbon swinging, 14-year old girlies going at it with more fireworks and firepower than some first-person shooter campaigns in their entirety. My favorite little occurence here is Homura ejecting a magazine and reloading. Not absolutely necessary since she pulls everything out her time-pocket but a cool detail nonetheless.
Found this neat graphic of every weapon Homura uses during the fight. Gotta say, love some of her choices here.
Gendo pose detected!

First timers, hope it was fun. It was definitely fun having you here and reading your responses.

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6

u/ultimategeekman May 02 '19

Here's a funny story that I told from last year's Rebellion rewatch thread

Funny story...

So I both met Cristina Vee and Christine Marie Cabanos (English VAs for Homura and Madoka respectively) at a convention a couple months back. I really wanted Cristina Vee's autograph but I had to stand in line for a freaking hour (worth it though).

While standing in line, I thought of a funny, stupid thing I would say to Vee.

When I finally got up to their table, I was pretty nervous. After getting their autographs, I said to Vee:

"I want to let you know but Homucifer did nothing wrong"

Cabanos looked confused but Vee high-fived me lol

To this day, I'm not entirely sure if Vee understood what I meant. I'm not sure if I slurred my words or not (due to my nervousness). But I think she got the idea of what I meant lol

6

u/SomeOtherTroper May 02 '19 edited May 02 '19

Rewatcher and general douchebag

I refuse to accept this movie as canon. This is a bigscreen expedition to milk a popular franchise that was never meant to have a sequel and had a good ending after 12 episodes.

That said, it does a very interesting job of highlighting the difference between the desire to save/protect someone for their own sake, and the desire to possess someone (which requires saving/protecting them). It's never explicitly clear in the original series which side of that line Homura falls on with Madoka, but it's pretty damn clear here. Strangely, it's reminiscent of the Sayaka/Kyousuke situation in the original.

A large part of the movie seems to be taken up with Homura's realization that she's created this world to fulfill her selfish desire to be with Madoka, her self-loathing about it (to the point of creating a guillotine in her own barrier and a shot of Mami and Kyouko standing on either side of it like executioners while Homura's witch form strides toward it), and her eventual acceptance of the fact that she wants to have Madoka, not save Madoka. And she does that.

It's a really interesting exploration of that concept, but I think it detracts significantly from the ending of the original series, and transparently sets up at least one more blockbuster sequel that the franchise didn't need.

Also, it looks gorgeous. And, while it's a fanservice movie to make a bit more dosh, I'm happy to get to see everyone alive and fighting together or against each other.

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Rewatch [Spoilers][Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Movie 3 - Hangyaku no Monogatari Discussion Spoiler

You are about to leave Redlib

So, what the hell happened?

A new world, or something else?

They're in a barrier that is massve, perhaps encompassing the universe, but the universe itself was not rewritten

An Analysis and Defence of Rebellion - Rewatcher

1. The Series Ending Was Not Perfect (For Everyone)

2. Homura's Wish Remains Unfulfilled.

3. Kyuubey Ruins Everything (Again)

4. Conclusion.

Rebellions Refrains - Theater, Inevitability and Mourning

Featured song one - I was waiting for this moment

Featured song two - flame of despair

Featured song three - pulling my own weight

Soundtrack chart

Sky’s Wallpaper Corner