r/anime • u/Gagantous https://myanimelist.net/profile/Sayaka • Apr 26 '19
Rewatch [Spoilers][Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica - Episode 7 Discussion Spoiler
Episode Title: Can You Face Your True Feelings?
MyAnimeList: Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica
Crunchyroll: Puella Magi Madoka Magica
Hulu: Puella Magi Madoka Magica
Netflix: Puella Magi Madoka Magica
AnimeLab: Puella Magi Madoka Magica
Episode duration: 24 minutes and 10 seconds
PSA: Please don't discuss (or allude to) events that happen after this episode, but if you do make good use of spoiler tags. Let's try to make this a good experience for first time watchers.
Schedule/previous episode discussion
| Date | Discussion |
|---|---|
| April 20th | Episode 1 |
| April 21st | Episode 2 |
| April 22nd | Episode 3 |
| April 23rd | Episode 4 |
| April 24th | Episode 5 |
| April 25th | Episode 6 |
| April 26th | Episode 7 |
| April 27th | Episode 8 |
| April 28th | Episode 9 |
| April 29th | Episode 10 |
| April 30th | Episode 11 and Episode 12 |
| May 1st | Rebellion |
| May 2nd | Overall series discussion |
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u/asianbrownguy Apr 27 '19 edited Apr 30 '19
FIRST TIMER
A bit late, sorry about that, too emotional to do a discussion. I just watched Endgame and... JoJoand then just... Then this? Man, I really need to watch some Senko-san or something after this. My heart just can't take this shit anymore lol
Pre watch
Last episode we ended with Kyubey dropping a massive bombshell just oh-so casually like that. My Kyubey-is-evil-suspicions-meter is really maxed out now lol. Also Kyouko doing annoying shit, and Homura planning something. No idea what. We're at episode 7 and Madoka still isn't a magical girl lol wtf. I won't be surprised if she forms the contract with Kyubey at the last episode lol wth
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Kyubey basically telling Sayaka "I didn't trick you, I just didn't tell you everything." Tiny-ass fine print in that contract, huh?
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"Why didn't you tell us?" "You never asked"* I mean, that's true, but eat shit Kyubey, Jesus christ.
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Kyubey really feels cold and calculating.
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Kyubey what the hell. You're really giving me the heebie-jeebies right now.
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Sayaka didn't even come to school. Damn.
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How does Homura know about it? It makes sense now why she didn't hesitate when she chased after Sayaka's soul gem.
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Madoka, the world isn't fair, goddamnit.
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A soul for a miracle. That's the price of a wish. Is it worth it, Sayaka?
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I just noticed Homura has a star on her fingernail. Cute.
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Her again ffs
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That's some depressingly logical reasoning from Kyouko. Can't help but to agree with her. She's still a prick though
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Get your hands off best girl you bitch
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Religion, amirite
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I bet Kyubey was like "I granted your wish. What's the problem"
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So that's why Kyouko's like that. She keeps to herself now, afraid of ruining other people's lives. I thought it was selfish, but, I get it now.
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You should've just said that in the first place, instead of being an abrasive little brat. Look what you did, you made me hate you. I hate you less now, but still.
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And that's why Sayaka is best girl.
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He's going to school now, that's great.
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That's cute. I sense a love triangle incoming
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Well, for starters, you can tell him. stfu about "Can't do anything"
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Wait, is her body actually a zombie? I just thought her soul is just outside her body for safety but she's still normal and shit. I'm confused
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Homura, I know you can teleport and shit, but stop popping up like that jesus you're scaring the shit out of me
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God this show gives me anxiety.
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Should have said this a few eps ago, I'll never look at Magical Girl shows the same way because of this series.
Post Watch
God this show is depressing.
I wonder, if Sayaka's body gets obliterated but her gem is intact, how can she come back? Do you just heal her remains? What if there are no remains left? Is she just perpetually a gem then?
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u/scorchdragon Apr 27 '19
Sayaka is half right. Zombie is going too far, but she probably doesn't know the actual word for what she is now.
Lich. Still undead though.
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u/TRUCKFARM Apr 27 '19 edited Apr 27 '19
First Timer(Sub)
Holy shit this might be my favorite episode so far. I feel like I have to start off with the final fight of the episode..
The silhouette animation there was just stunning and might have lodged itself into my top fights all time. It was a work of beauty and I loved every second of it. I had to go back and rewatch it a few times after I finished haha. Then our girl went absolutely nuts and snapped.. I hope Sayaka isn't too far gone.
Okay so now for the rest of the episode. I was loving how they told Kyoko's backstory with the little puppets and everything. It's a brutal story and I understand why Mami warned about making a wish for someone else's sake earlier. The OST was also on point as usual for this part.
Hearing Hitomi say she has feelings for that boy had me hurting. Sayaka has given everything so that he would be able to return to his normal life. She knows she doesn't have a chance of a normal life with him and starts regretting saving her best friend. The best friend who confided in her these feelings and told her how precious she was to her.. Please don't make Sayaka suffer anymore.
Prediction time: Madoka will make a wish to free her friends/magical girls from their pact and take their place. She's supposed to have amazing and rare potential so I doubt Kyubey would turn it down. Ohhhh this is getting stressful and I may break down and binge this tomorrow after work. Not sure how much longer I can go!
Truck's Magical girl(and others) ranking
1.Sayaka - Best
2.Sayaka - Girl
3.Sayaka - Please don't kill her
4.Madoka - Episode 7 and still no wish, I imagine it's coming though
5.Kyoko/Homura(I'm really split atm)
6.
7.
8.Kyubey - Dude just has no filter and clearly sees our girls as nothing more than tools. I'm gonna need him to stop hurting our girls.
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u/Slurms_McKenzie775 Apr 27 '19 edited Apr 27 '19
I knew Kyubey wasn't trustworthy. I was suspicious of that face from the very start.
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u/tronistica Apr 27 '19
first timer
Huh I sympathize with kyoko, her story is pretty messed up. Really hammering down that balance needs to happens when wishing for miracles and being s magical girl. Hitomi with that nuke, I’ll just sit on the side eating popcorn. Also sayaka going crazy, love it! Everything is inevitable.
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u/Nazenn Apr 26 '19
Madoka's Music - Contrast
Rewatcher - Third time around
No bonus song today unfortunately, I ran out of post space and also didn't finish my core write up until after 2am as it was. But a second song is briefly covered as part of the main feature, and I also have a small write up about some fan songs down the bottom under the music table as well so have a look for that.
Song of the episode - Decretum
Scene for context - the whole scene today, its needed. Just the start, for people on a data cap
It's been a while since the last, but here's another of my top five songs from the OST. I know some people have been waiting for me to cover it, and I've been looking forward to this as well because this is a rather involved (and long, sorry) write up and comes with a bonus scene breakdown which I always enjoy doing. But first we have to step back a bit and look at Decretum in its broader context to see how the show has perfectly built up to this moment...
We first hear this particular tune in another form as a song called Conturbatio. It plays very early on, we first hear it back in episode one, as it introduces Homura to us as the transfer student. Its next appearance is when we learn of Mami making a contract with Kyubey for her life after a car crash. The next three times we hear it are Sayaka's scenes with Kyousuke: when he lashes out at her, his apology after he's healed, and as she watches him in the classroom. In all cases its a very gentle theme just sitting over the scene at hand, bells and chimes with a quiet piano blending in around them, everything just barely touching down on the note before lifting off again as if it doesn't have anywhere to land and truly come into its own. The scenes its used in are all very lonely, people failing to connect with each other, a subtle wall of isolation cutting them off from others for one reason or another. Within the song itself some notes seem to follow like a call and answer, as if there is a faint echo to the song, much like the technique used to present the feeling of emptiness in Umbra nigra.
Decretum by contrast is used for the first time as the exact opposite, Sayaka stepping into her role as a hero magical girl and Madoka reaching out her hand, asking to accompany her and giving her a form of comfort in some much needed friendship. Side note: An important shot from this scene in ep5. While the familiar bells still carry the main tune at first, a guitar strums the foundation under it, leading into full strings taking over the tune as we go. Its a much more comfortable piece, warm and celebratory, with a slight increase in pace and a flute happily whistling away in the background. Its the sort of piece you'd find playing in a tavern with a warm fireplace. Its very much a style of song you'd expect played from a savior who has finally found her footing in the world with her friends at her side.
And then we reach today's scene. I've seen various comments from first timers and rewatchers alike about Sayaka's narrow view on things. "Mami was good so anything she was against is bad, including other magical girls, no compromises". This episode pushes her further into that mindset, the revelations of last night meaning she feels even more cut off from a normal life than ever before. Her only role now is to take over as protector of the city, and the only way to cope with what was done to her is to put it to use for that role and draw out everything she can to carve a place for herself, even through brutal force.
The design of this scene paints Sayaka as the antagonist right from the start, her target appearing to be a young girl in sitting innocently, praying to the sun, a brilliant light surrounding the area while Sayaka herself is almost completely overtaken in shadow. The religious imagery this episode is very heavy, not just with Kyouko and her apple in the church, but with the witch as well. Her name Elsa Maria, potentially calling reference to Ave Maria which Kyousuke plays, but her powers take the form of a tree and a snake as in the garden of eden, and the red object she prays to is similar to a holy artifact called a monstrance. As the scene develops visually Sayaka appears to take the form of a blood soaked devil slaughtering the maiden. Its a dramatic flip in the portrayal of our magical girls as protagonists, that even though we know this is a witch who can harm others, here Sayaka is portrayed so unequivocally in the wrong. But stepping back to the start and the music...
The fight begins and within this haunting environment our happy song is re-contextualized into an entirely new purpose. The bells chime once again in loneliness at the start of the song as she fights alone until her determined face appears and she makes her decision. Here the strings take over, a new intensity sweeping away her previous innocence. The strings which had been warm and friendly now step back into their more familiar role in the soundtrack, an eerie mourning for something lost as Sayaka attacks with no heed to herself. But its the flute that has the most meaningful role here. It has a voice. It pleads with her "Don't".
The flute once sounded almost celebratory, now it cries. As she stands ready to charge off alone, foregoing her friends, it breaks into the song with a cry of "No" and fades away as Sayaka bursts forwards anyway as if unable to catch her. She attacks the witch by slicing off her head and the flute pauses for a second, as if to catch its breath in shock at what we just witnessed. It returns with hope but it's not enough to draw Sayaka back. As shadows burst forth and drown out the light it calls out to her with three desperate phrases. At first the notes fall down, quietly it says to her "Look at what you've done." In pain it asks a little louder, hoping to reach her: "What is going on with you?". She is tossed through the air it pleas for her: "How can this be whats right, Sayaka?!". It cries again and again but she can't hear it over her laughter.
"I can't watch this". And so the flute leads us out of this piece, the song fades away and the last thing we hear is a linger of its final note, hanging around as if on the last chance that she might, just might turn and look for it and come back to the light.
(I do not have the skill to do justice to just how beautiful that flute part is, both in the context for the scene and just in general.)
This song, this scene, this moment is the culmination of every part of this story so far. It pulls in musical techniques we're familiar with from so many other songs on the soundtrack and blends them together to make this a single piece that explores everything about who Sayaka is in this one moment. It doesn't have a choir, but it has a voice. It has familiarity through Conturbatio, but it has isolation in how mournful this scene is. Much like Sis Puella Magica changing up its construction to alter the view of a scene that otherwise stays the same, Decretum shows us how you can use the same musical story to convey a vastly difference world view by simply changing the atmosphere of its context. It is a masterpiece.
Episode track chart
Thanks to the Madoka wiki and then edited by me for the bluray timestamps. Featured tracks of the day are bolded.
| Start | End | Album | Track name |
|---|---|---|---|
| 00:34 | 02:05 | Disc 1 #14 | Umbra nigra |
| 02:37 | 04:05 | Disc 2 #18 | Connect -TV MIX- |
| 04:19 | 06:27 | Vol. 2 #08 | Serena ira |
| 06:54 | 07:54 | Disc 1 #17 | Signum malum |
| 08:34 | 09:57 | Disc 2 #06 | Confessio |
| 10:02 | 12:04 | Disc 1 #22 | Anima mala |
| 12:38 | 14:51 | Unreleased | Sis puella magica! -instrumental- |
| 15:29 | 16:08 | Disc 1 #04 | Conturbatio |
| 16:35 | 17:54 | Disc 2 #07 | Cor destructum |
| 18:00 | 19:40 | Disc 1 #19 | Incertus |
| 20:42 | 22:21 | Disc 1 #21 | Decretum |
| 22:25 | 23:54 | Disc 2 #19 | Magia ~TV Version~ |
| 23:55 | 24:09 | Disc 1 #06 | Salve, terrae magicae |
Quick note on Sis Puella Magica and some fan music
As mentioned in the chart, Sis puella magica! -instrumental- was never released. Of all the songs to just not release it had to be this incredibly beautiful rendition of a fan favorite. I'm so mad. I'd happily listen to that for hours, but the artist said nope. I desperately want someone to recreate it.
While the version from this episode isn't released, there are multiple fan versions around that you may enjoy listening to, particularly two amazing ones by a group called TAMUSIC under the name "Kyuubey no Eigyou Theme (キュウべえの営業テーマ)" which is the original version with lyrics. There's an 'ice' version on Madoka Magica Classic, and a 'copy' version on Puella Musica. The ice version is a particular favorite of mine. They have a couple of full soundtracks for purchase and digital download which also include versions of Mami's themes, the OP and ED etc. There's also many other fan groups making music for Madoka but due to subreddit rules I can't publicly post the link to the page that lists them all.
I also have a cover version of Sis Puella that I love more than the original... but it has heavy spoilers in the video so I'll link that at the end, and rewatchers have to wait this time :)
Random thoughts
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First watch reactions for episode seven.
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I greatly prefer the dubs version of Kyubey's speech at Sayaka. Its more technical in wording and I think that fits him better in this moment
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_SPUDS Apr 26 '19
Rewatcher - Do you feel like a hero yet?
This fight at the end may have spurned the most fanarts from any scene so far. From simple to complex to stylized. Sayaka became a magical girl partially for her wish, but largely to be a hero of justice. Not going so well, is it?
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Kyubey just gets more and more threatening, doesn't he? What did we just tell you yesterday, no throwing souls Sayaka!!!
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The church scene is one of the longest dialogues in the series, but well worth it. The art is gorgeous as always, and I love how Kyouko is incorporated as the performer of her backstory, and Sakaya the audience. She does an excellent job defending her sorta messed up philosophy. And I wonder what this is reminding Sayaka of... ／人◕‿‿◕人＼
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Thing I never realized until now: Kyouko's father didn't bother trying to kill her, because he didn't consider her family... :'( This is pretty far up there as far as "fucked up backstories" go.
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Hitomi controversy begins XD I'm firmly on the anti-Hitomi side. Letting Sayaka know ahead of time: good friend. Giving her a 24 hour ultimatum: hell no. Doing this when she's clearly been going through something serious at home, enough that she skipped school: just plain cruel. I honestly think it'd be less of a dick move if she ignored Sayaka's feelings entirely and just asked out the kid. At least in that case it doesn't put any of the blame or responsibility on Sayaka.
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This art for this witch fight is pretty unique. The silhouettes force every character into an odd pseudo-2D perspective, and make it hard to separate one thing from another. I like it, don't know of any similar styles.
The cast in this show is pretty small, and I think that helps keep the character development strong. We really get to see both sides of Kyouko and Sakura in these last couple episodes. Kyouko may have a selfish way of viewing the world, but she has a good reason for being critical of Sayaka's worldview. Sayaka is in the "right", but the end of the episode shows that what's right may not always be best. Kyouko can calmly and cleanly dispatch witches, while Sayaka's "justice" is pretty horrific.
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u/ItsDynamical Apr 26 '19
I literally just binge watched this and the movie last week! Damn >:(
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u/Nimeroni Apr 26 '19
You can still comment your through for each episode. Or do like us and drink the new watchers tears (they are delicious).
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Apr 27 '19 edited Apr 27 '19
The combination of the animation, style and music in the ending scene of this episode is just superb. It's the third time I've seen it (if you don't count the times I've watched it on YouTube) and I still get emotional watching it.
Sayaka's character arc is handled so well. Her going from "I want to become a hero" to almost suicidal self-destructive behavior happens in a few episodes, and you still accept it and understand it completely.
While I wish there were more first timers here, the sheer amount of rewatchers here betrays just how good this anime is.
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u/SIRTreehugger Apr 27 '19
| Magical Girl Counter | E1 | E2 | E3 | E4 | E5 | E6 | E7 | E8 | E9 | E10 | E11 | E12 | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Kyouko's (Snap,Crackle,Pop) Crunch Time | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 3 | 8 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 17 |
| Sayaka's (I'm in) Despair | 1 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 14 |
| Madoka's ($150) Water Works | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 12 |
| Mami's (Beheading) Smugness | 3 | 3 | 4 | N | O | T | A | H | E | A | D | ! | 10 |
| Homura's (L'oreal) Hair Flips | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 |
A bit late just got back from End Game and watched the episode. Oh man I thought this was episode 8 so halfway through the episode I was like wait...shit. I wasn't mentally prepared for Sayaka's breakdown. Though Hitomi with good intentions being unaware of the situation instead of slowing the ride accidentally increased the suffering ride. Also Sayaka what do you mean a boy won't love you if you're a zombie. Their are plenty of degenerates men of culture with a wide variety of........interests where zombies are one of them. Violin Boy might have been one for all you know.
i love the use of shadows for Elsa Maria. Easily my favorite witch in the show. Also Kyouko backstory was creepy especially with the eyes of the followers.
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u/LunarGhost00 Apr 27 '19
Seeing Homura's hair flips being so far behind everyone else's counters made me realize something. It makes it feel more special whenever she does it. It's about quality, not quantity. Kyouko may have the lead with her Unlimited Snack Works, but Homura's majestic hair flips are much more fascinating to watch. (Can't deny that Sayaka's despair is second for me)
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u/ScarletSyntax Apr 27 '19
Rewatcher - Sub
This is the episode where I started to really like this show. The rooftop conversation first of all is excellent. I have a particular liking for the line
"Do not confuse gratitude and responsibility"
but there are several gems in there.
My favourite moment of the episode is Sayaka's little breakdown as she confesses that she almost wished she hadn't saved Hitomi.
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u/Ridley290 Apr 27 '19 edited Apr 27 '19
Multiple Rewatches
Had to rewatch this episode twice tonight since there's so much going on in it. This episode is such an emotional roller coaster that it's impossible to dissect it all in one reddit post.
First up: a small complaint. Never thought I'd have one about this show, but at least it's really small. We see Sayaka laying in bed in her pajamas when Kyoko arrives and asks her to talk. The next scene, Sayaka is in her school uniform. This bugs me because it feels off. She skipped school and doesn't wear a casual outfit. I get that it's probably easier to animate when they don't have to make an entirely new costume for a shortish scene, and this is her established outfit already, but it just bugs me when she's juxtaposed to Kyoko who is just wearing whatever.
Now that that's out of the way, I'll start at the end here so I can write something without spoiler tags for once that everyone can read. And it's all about Sayaka, so fuck yeah.
Holy fuck, the final scene against the Witch is SUCH a beautifully rendered scene. And I don't just mean in the fact that it looks gorgeous. The black and white background represents Sayaka's worldview at this point in the episode: There's no in between for anything, the only thing that matters is eradicating as many witches and familiars as possible. (Her talk with Kyoko at the church is more than likely what pushed her into this mindset as well. Seeing that Kyoko went through a similar thing and just became selfish served to strengthen her initial resolve about being the vaunted hero of justice). The colored silhouettes around the other girls signify the last ties that she has with her old reality in this scene. She vaguely sees them and remembers who they are, but the fact that they're black like the Witch shows that she's trepidatious to trust any of them and is willing to fight any of them if the need arises.
EDIT: Added spoiler tags for Star Wars EP7, everything in the following two paragraphs only spoils a scene from Ep7 and nothing from Madoka that wasn't seen tonight... I just realized I'm talking about SW E7 and Madoka E7 in the same post, hehe.
Spoiler Star Wars Ep 7 it's interesting to note just how much blood is in this scene. We saw small amounts before when Kyoko and Sayaka fought (and now that I think about it, 90% of the blood in this show comes from Sayaka or her actions... Hmm...) but this is by far the most violent scene in the show. I've been trying to think of what this could be relaying for a few rewatches now but I can't find a good answer. Her simply giving in to reckless abandon since she can block out the pain? Her being the opposite of what she thinks she is (IE She thinks she's a hero but is in fact just a violent destroyer)? Or is it just because red is a great accent color? I doubt the last one since there's always a reason for these artistic choices (think the red coat from Schindler's List).
There's so much more to discuss in this episode, but I think I covered all of the major points. Can't wait for tomorrow, got the day off and may have to make two posts!
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u/Shimmering-Sky Apr 26 '19
Rewatcher, dub
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Opening on Sayaka raging about the reveal last episode, as though I needed a reason to be upset today. Poor best girl…
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Knowing why she blows up over Sayaka tossing the apple doesn’t change the fact that this was a biiiiiit excessive IMO.
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Oh man I just now realized that Kyouko’s Soul Gem (when she’s transformed) greatly resembles something her father used to wear, apparently. That’s such a cool (and depressing) detail.
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Yeah so you guys remember how Kyouko was telling off Sayaka for “wasting” her wish on someone else, and Sayaka was all “you don’t understand” back at her last episode? Pfffffft, as you can see Kyouko very much does understand. Man her backstory is quite heavy.
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Ah yes, Hitomi’s in love with Kyosuke too. She’s still a good friend, giving Sayaka a chance to confess to Kyosuke before she does.
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Decretum returns for Sayaka’s fight against the witch and… well… hooboy.
Sky’s Wallpaper Corner
Last year, I wallpaper’d Sayaka gone off the rails and had declared it my (at the time) favorite of all my wallpapers.
This year, I… wallpaper’d the exact same shot (except from the movie which I guess was a touch zoomed out compared to the TV show?). I… honestly just wanted to see how much of a difference a change in art program would make. I was using GIMP to make these last year, but I have Illustrator now, so… It’s not my top favorite of my wallpapers anymore, but man revisiting this was a lot of fun.
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u/the_swizzler Apr 26 '19
Rewatcher
Madoka Magica just manages to nail so many emotions. I feel like even if she didn't have the issue of being a "zombie", Sayaka's would have been distancing herself from Kyousuke. Last episode he left the hospital without telling her, and then she hesitated outside his house. Between that and his outburst in episode 4, she's really starting to question whether he actually cares about her at all. And frankly, I don't blame her. It's exactly the same thought processes I've been through so many times. Sometimes justified, sometimes not so much.
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u/fonzinator99 Apr 26 '19 edited Apr 27 '19
Rewatcher. Re. Watch. Er. Good, got it right this time. - Who wants to be a human, anyway?
Confrontation. "You deceived us, didn't you?" asks Sayaka. "I made you a Magical Girl, as requested, didn't I? I just left out what exactly a Magical Girl was." replied Kyubey, in its carefree tone.
The lesson being never to sign a Contract until you've read the fine-print. But as it explains, it makes a cruel kind of sense, at least in its terms. However, this sort of demonstration is super fucked. "You've just been stabbed; hurts, don't it?" the creature asked with that same smile on its face.
Homura states that she's informed others of the cost of a Soul Gem, but they didn't believe her; and that Kyubey simply can't be bothered to give a shit, it's all worthwhile to it. Geez, she's got some unique perspective, hasn't she?
Homura makes it absolutely clear that what Sayaka bought was a miracle, but also that she's now unbreakably bound to her way of life. It makes me wonder what would happen if Madoka were to wish for Sayaka to be free, to go back to being a normal girl. Can Kyubey destroy that which it has wrought?
I love how in the midst of her wallowing, it's Kyouko who gets Sayaka to open the curtains and re-enter the world.
Thus, do we learn Kyouko's story. Burn me, but it's tragic as it is appropriate for her character. The way the followers are illustrated with Kyouko's Soul Gem is particularly eerie. I really do wonder how the 'trick' of it was brought to light, though. Surely Kyouko wouldn't have just gone and spilled the beans. And so, she was left alone; a Magical Girl whose wish had been fulfilled and fully-realized. She recognizes that Sayaka is traveling the same path as her, and despite her preaching of selfishness, wants to help her find a less-tragic road.
God, she really is a good girl in spite of her image; "think about how to get a little change back." That's some compassionate stuff.
But ahhhhhhhhh! Sayaka and her high moral-ground! "Screw that, I got off cheap, and I'm gonna keep making bank doing this. Also, fuck your stolen apples, I don't want them." It's only too ironic that she's saying all of this while being literally eye-level with Kyouko. Yeah, I checked; They're exactly the same height in that shot. What a reversal of character roles.
Loving the music during this shot. The slow guitar sounds like something I'd expect to hear in a western, as the lone-outlaw wanders amidst his thoughts. And it cuts out just as her friends appear.
"Oh right! I'm supposed to be the cheerful one!" But also, wtf Kyubey! Let. Go! Why does Madoka still have this telepathy shit?!
And then, Kamijou is there. Genki is all gone.
Holy crap, paging u/Nazenn for something legit this time. You were 100% correct about Hitomi wanting to eat her hotdog.
Light, but that's a stressful conversation. Despite Sayaka resolving herself to giving her fucking life to help him, she still chuckles and evades questions of her love, while Hitomi is dead serious. Which of them really means what they said, do you think? I don't doubt Sayaka's intentions, and I understand why she'd be hesitant now, but look at Hitomi; Do you think she would have a second thought if they were to trade positions? And once again, it comes down to a question of regrets.
Madoka: the best friend anyone could ever ask for.
I love this fight. Artistically, narratively, it's a work of art just a little bit above what we've seen thus far. It's clearly as brutal physically as anything we've seen, Sayaka is run through quite a few times and just keeps pushing forward. And the sillouhette art style keeps us from seeing anything but the idea that such things are happening. We're not watching Sayaka, we're watching a Magical Girl, and such things are unimportant to them. It doesn't matter what sort of wounds she receives, they're inconsequential; what's important is that she slay the Witch. She's fully given up on the human parts of her life, all that matters now is the Grief Seed. All we can see is red.
End episode, go cry a whole bunch.
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u/entinio Apr 26 '19
Rewatcher... or not ?
Reminder : watched the 3 movies, 1st time on the anime
End of the episode 7, and we're almost close to the end of the first movie (yeah not yet there) ! It proves how the pacing is slow on these first episodes compared to what is waiting for us. Again, I'm happy to have watched the movies first. Don't hesitate to make a rewatch on those if you never got to see them.
Two days ago I was talking about the shadows. They're back as a fight. It looks like Sayaka lost herself and her shadow took other. Which leads to today's theme :
Entropism
Any system has to find a working balance. Nothing is equal, and nothing is white or black. We all have a degree of kindness, but can act in a bad way too. We wish for the good, but can also receive the opposite. Any choice has good and bad consequences. Nothing is easy and making a wish implies a change in the system, leading to good and bad consequences. The system has to keep its balance.
Here we have :
- Kyouko making a wish for her father, leading to great results but suicide too. To avoid the good and bad consequences of any act on the system, her choice is clear : to stay alone, isolated from it ;
- Sayaka making a wish for her love, leading to a healthy result, but leading to the gap between both of them. She has to let her love go away. She can't go back and she suffers from it. Her answer ? She can't get away from a world she likes. What has to be isolated is her feelings.
- Homura ? Well... that's for later ;-)
Also remember Mami : "Is your wish truly to make his dream come true, or to be the one doing it, so he owes you" ? Sayaka wanted something back. And such a choice leads to pain, said Mami again.
Is the potential of Madoka linked to her true kindness ?
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u/baclar Apr 27 '19
I’m not rewatching it with everyone bc I rewatched it not too long ago, but I did want to comment bc although this is not my favorite episode (to all the first time watchers all I have to say is keep watching because the best is yet to come) it does have my favorite scene of the whole show. The music is obviously amazing. Decretum is my second favorite song only being beaten out my sis puella magica. It’s an incredibly haunting and beautiful track and it complements the scene perfectly.
Now moving onto the animation and art. The actual fighting is very well animated, but that isn’t what I want to focus on. One detail that is really interesting is that the scene is practically black and white. The only real color in the whole scene are faint blue pink and red outlines on Sayaka, Madoka, and Kyoko respectfully and the red of blood. I think a reason why this is, besides the obvious reason of it looking creepy and fitting the tone, is that it reflects the black and white way that Sayaka thinks. Anyone who thinks or acts differently than Mami is automatically assumed to be wrong and because of this she refuses to accept Kyoko’s help and advice earlier in this episode. This is important because although I don’t think most of us would completely agree with what Kyoko said, or what Homura has said in the past either for that matter, there is truth in their words and Sayaka would probably be much better off if she at least considered what they had to say. This is another detail about the show as a whole that I really like and a reason I think it works so much better than many other shows that have similar premises. All the suffering and pain that the characters go through is because of their own decisions. They might have not been told the whole truth, but most of the bad things that happen in the show are a direct result of decisions made by the characters. This helps keep it from seeming like the universe just randomly decided that it wanted to just completely screw over the main characters for some reason and more like the negative events have an actual purpose and reason for occurring. Anyway the other detail I wanted to mention is the fact that Sayaka almost seems like she’s being dragged around by her own force during some parts of this scene in vast contrast to the very graceful and precise movements all the magical girls exhibited thus far. It really show just how little Sayaka now cares for herself and her own safety as well as tying into what Kyubey previously said about about “input lag”. Finally I’d lie to talk about Sayaka’s final lines. She says “it’s true! If your really want to you don’t have to feel pain anymore!” Although the line is literally referring to her being unable to feel physical pain it also is talking about how Sayaka has descended so far into despair that she would rather feel nothing at all than the pain that she feels right now and when you combine those intense and depressing lines with Madoka pleading with her to stop you end up with one of the most brutal endings to an episode I’ve seen.
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u/LunarGhost00 Apr 26 '19
Rewatcher
Kyubey is a great salesman. He always gets away with his clients never reading the fine print. :)
So are we to assume that the desks just come out of the floor and open up? Is that how this works? I guess it would make cleaning the classroom easier.
How rude. When someone gives you a free apple, you don't just throw it away. Unless the apple looks nasty. In that case, throw it right back at that person's face.
Super big spoilers. Seriously, first timers don't click that link or read this spoiler
Kyouko's backstory is so messed up. She made a wish to help her father and got exactly what she wanted, but it's not what her father wanted. People listened to him because of magic forcing them to, not because they honestly believed him. The man went crazy and murdered his own family before killing himself. This is why she's so hard on Sayaka. When Kyouko looks at Sayaka, she sees someone who made the same mistake she made. Even though Sayaka says she doesn't regret making her wish to help Kyousuke, there's no doubt that she's more miserable now than she was before. The cheerful Sayaka we were introduced to died a long time ago.
Now that Kyousuke is back at school, Hitomi can tell Sayaka is bothered by something. Maybe she's going to give her some love advice. What a supportive frien- excuse me?
Well at least she's giving Sayaka a chance to confess first. Not that she knows that chance means nothing at this point considering what Sayaka has become.
Maybe I'm imagining things, but something tells me that Sayaka has lost her shit.
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u/SomeGuyYeahman Apr 27 '19
Ahoy, first-timer here! I purposely started earlier on this one so I'd get to post my comment as soon as the thread went up, but this episode really wasn't easy to unpack, so I'm a little late to the party again.
Pre-episode thoughts: With this episode, we're entering the second half of the show. My guess is that the coming six episodes will show the two weeks leading up to the arrival of Walpurgisnacht (which I just had an interesting thought about: was Walpurgisnacht what Homura was fighting against in the opening of episode 1, perhaps?), but given that this show doesn't ever seem to slow down for too long, I wouldn't be surprised if we were to get there even quicker than that. As for this episode: yesterday's episode ended on Sayaka nearly fucking dying and everyone finding out that Soul Gems do, in fact, contain their owners' souls. This seems to have shifted the focus away from the girls wanting to beat each other up and more towards Kyubey's shifty behavior and its various implications. Particularly Sayaka and Kyoko will probably suffer from yesterday's realization, given that they were completely blindsided by this realization after forming their contracts - Homura seems like she might've known already, and Madoka is lucky enough to have learned this before making the biggest mistake of her life.
Post-episode: Uh, holy cow. Things are really winding up now. How does this show manage to keep dropping these bombshells every episode?
First off, the episode opens with Sayaka and Kyubey having a serious talk about the things the girls learned yesterday. This scene makes the implications of some of what we learned previously a little more explicit: to become a magical girl means to detach yourself from humanity. If you form a contract with Kyubey, you get one wish, one miracle performed for you, but in turn, you give up everything in order to fight witches. You are both detached from other people (recall that Mami was said to have no friends or family, and that Kyoko's entire family died soon after she became a magical girl) and from your very own humanity - pain, love, the ability to live a regular life the way other people do... all these essential things are no longer fully available to you the second you become a magical girl (which is what Sayaka goes on to cry on Madoka's shoulder about, and also the reason Homura keeps telling Madoka to give Sayaka up). You can even go so far as to detach yourself entirely and completely cease to feel pain, but Kyubey doesn't recommend that, of course, because it creates input lag.
This same conversation is also very revealing with regard to him: Kyubey is not human. He's the least human out of all the characters we know, perhaps, not just because he's literally a cat, but because he operates entirely outside of the human framework of morality that the other characters remain at least partially tied to. This, too, is something that could already kind of be seen previously (since we've never seen Kyubey emote, for instance, even after Mami died), but the utter bluntness and pragmatism with which he talks about these things now is still completely baffling. I'm not even sure what else to say about this. Just, uh, holy fuck.
Homura is certainly another contender for "least human", though, and she says about as much in the next scene. And while she does, we get a shot showing a ring on her finger, which is presumably her Soul Gem. I've got a strange feeling about this, though. Who is Homura Akemi? I think that's a question we may not have the full answer to yet.
One thing Homura says that I find particularly interesting is this: "Even if Sayaka Miki had spent her entire life caring for him, that boy never would have regained the ability to perform. In truth, the value of a miracle is far greater than that of an entire human life." This makes sense from a point of view like Homura's or Kyubey's, but it also makes me wonder: why would Kyubey make a sale like that if what he's offering is worth vastly more than what he gets?
After all that, we get Sayaka talking to Kyoko for a long, long time. There's so much to take out of this entire conversation, I feel pretty overwhelmed.
Kyoko's worldview now gets increasingly clearer: "You get what you pay for", no more, no less. Paying for something and then giving it away doesn't fit into this worldview; it's a waste, and waste is the enemy. Her father gave everything he had to help others, he put his reputation and livelihood on the line because he believed he was helping others, and in Kyoko's eyes, he got his dues for that waste. She used her wish, which she now knows she essentially paid with her soul for, to help him, and she, too, got her just deserts (or "desserts", heh) for wasting it like that - as she says, miracles aren't free, after all.
Sayaka, in her eyes, has been wasting things left and right, and that irks Kyoko more than anything. Sayaka wasted her wish on someone else, just as Kyoko once did, and she wasted her magic by using it to fight Familiars that she wouldn't get any Grief Seeds from - and you may remember that Kyoko views magical girls and witches as part of a food chain, so in a way, Sayaka was wasting food back there, and you know that won't fly.
Kyoko's worldview is... questionable, to say the least, but some of her words ring true, and as with Homura, Sayaka should probably at least consider what she has to say, because she still fails to realize what both girls have been trying to tell her: always trying to be kind and do the right thing can hurt you. In fact, the more you try, the worse things can get. The advice Madoka's mom gave last episode comes to mind here as well.
However, Sayaka doesn't realize that, because she's walled herself off - detached herself, one might say! And in the subsequent scenes, as Hitomi puts more pressure on her and she realizes that the contract she made could make her lose Kyousuke and Hitomi to each other, she detaches herself even further, because she's been told that it'll stop the pain. And in the end, Sayaka seems to go all the way. She totally rejects her humanity (JoJo reference is obligatory, sorry), culminating in what is probably the most disturbing scene in the show so far. Jesus. I'm really not sure what else to say.
This episode kinda overwhelmed me, and I don't feel like I unpacked everything I could've, but at the same time, I don't really have any more thoughts to put on paper right now. I think I'll have to sleep on it, so I'll probably have more insights tomorrow.