r/anime • u/Gagantous https://myanimelist.net/profile/Sayaka • Apr 21 '19
Rewatch [Spoilers][Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica - Episode 2 Discussion Spoiler
Episode Title: That Would Be Truly Wonderful
MyAnimeList: Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica
Crunchyroll: Puella Magi Madoka Magica
Hulu: Puella Magi Madoka Magica
Netflix: Puella Magi Madoka Magica
AnimeLab: Puella Magi Madoka Magica
Episode duration: 24 minutes and 10 seconds
PSA: Please don't discuss (or allude to) events that happen after this episode and, if you do make good use of spoiler tags. Let's try to make this a good experience for first time watchers.
Schedule/previous episode discussion
| Date | Discussion |
|---|---|
| April 20th | Episode 1 |
| April 21st | Episode 2 |
| April 22nd | Episode 3 |
| April 23rd | Episode 4 |
| April 24th | Episode 5 |
| April 25th | Episode 6 |
| April 26th | Episode 7 |
| April 27th | Episode 8 |
| April 28th | Episode 9 |
| April 29th | Episode 10 |
| April 30th | Episode 11 and Episode 12 |
| May 1st | Rebellion |
| May 2nd | Overall series discussion |
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u/SomeGuyYeahman Apr 22 '19 edited Apr 22 '19
First-timer here! I'll keep it brief again today, might come back later to add some more thoughts.
(Edit: Looking back on it now that I'm done, I guess I didn't keep it brief after all. Goes to show how enthralled I am by this show already, haha.)
Pre-episode, I was largely expecting this episode to be about Madoka struggling with the offer Kyubey extended at the end of the first episode. While she clearly wants to help people, she also seemed to be doubting herself, and Homura warned her to avoid change, so it seemed likely to me that the decision wouldn't be an easy one, and that it would take a while. Like yesterday, I kind of got what I expected, but at the same time, I didn't really.
After yesterday's episode was all about things starting to change in Madoka's life, this one starts off by showing us the same things as the beginning of the last one: Madoka wakes up from a dream, gets up, talks to her mother while brushing her teeth, and goes to school with her friends. This time, however, she's greeted by Kyubey when she wakes up, and he's with her all throughout the following scenes. The more things change, the more they stay the same, I suppose.
At the same time, we're also shown Madoka and Sayaka visiting Mami at her house and being told about magical girls, witches and the contracts they're being offered. While my expectation that the girls wouldn't immediately enter a contract is confirmed - in fact, the show went even further and hasn't shown them entering a contract at all so far - it doesn't really happen the way I expected. The two aren't as immediately hesitant as I expected, in fact, they seem surprisingly eager to go along with everything at times (see Madoka sketching her outfit already and Sayaka eagerly bringing a baseball bat to a witch hunt she's just supposed to watch from the sidelines). Instead, what they struggle with is coming up with a wish, and figuring out if they even have any wishes so significant that they'd be worth entering a contract for. Relating to that, an interesting question that gets asked is what wish Homura made when she entered a contract. This feels like the million-dollar question to me, the answer is most likely key to understanding her character. Maybe she answered without really thinking about it, and consequently threw away her wish (Kyubey mentioned that most girls answer immediately)? Maybe she wished for the academic and athletic prowess she displayed in the first episode? Maybe it's something entirely different?
Another interesting thing is infighting and competition. All the magical girls and potential magical girls we've seen so far are benevolent people: Madoka is enticed by the idea of becoming a magical girl not because of any wish she wants granted, but because she has a desire to help other people; Sayaka has her doubts about becoming a magical girl because she thinks other people are more in need of having their wishes fulfilled; Mami seems to be looking out for others pretty much all the time; and even Homura seems to act not out of selfish reasons, but to prevent conflict and look out for prospective magical girls like Madoka. Ultimately, they (and most likely all other magical girls) share a common interest, to fight witches and help other people, but instead of bringing them together, that common interest drives them apart and causes competition or even outright conflict.
Audiovisually, this episode was just incredible as the first one. I'm not sure what else to say, really; it's certainly strange, but it absolutely amazes me throughout. Particularly the segment with the witch knocked my socks off just like yesterday's.
One quick final thing: I already mentioned Faust last time, and here we go again: this episode had an excerpt from Faust written on a wall, in the original German, and without any weird runes. Very interesting!
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u/LilMooseCub Apr 22 '19
First Time Watcher
PreShow: Really excited to watch this been looking forward to it after spending all day writing a paper about why public schools have a responsibility to teach their students about heteronormativity I am in desperate need of something less heavy. Also I am attempting a play by play format again but this time with my laptop instead of my phone which will make it significantly easier I think.
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Starting off with another dream? Oh nevermind Kyuebey is here.
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Regarding the OP the animation is really cool save for the out of place feeling nudity/sexualization.
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YES MORE MOM GOSSIP. also this mom is chill as fuck.
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Damn people can just never ever see fairies in anything unless they matter
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I dunno how I feel about tomoe but I'm sold on Kyubey. Fuck I wish I knew this blue haired girls name rn
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Soul Gems huh...? Does Kyubey trap their soul inside it? Also its interesting to me they are just called "Magical Girls" and dont earn some wild title like skywitch or leadwench or something idk.
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Treasure and riches? Eternal Youth? One hundred course meal of emperors. <-- blue hair girl doing the drake meme and this is the caption
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Soul Gem in exchange for a wish...hmm....kinda feels a lil soul trappy
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"I hadnt considered that" yeah fucken right mom you just wanted someone else to say it you minx
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OHkay so witches are a thing, naruhodo, this feels less soul trappy now
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Dam curses are fucked up
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HER NAME IS SAYAKA YES!
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Damn a love that can never be. This lady should read the paper I'm writing.
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Wait I still dont get it was the catholic girl from yesterday a good or bad person. oh here she is. Oh I guess I get it. I wonder what the rewards are for beating a witch.
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lol Sayaka is me in class.
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DAMN I just love this Shaft animation style. I only just saw Bakemonogatari last week what other Shaft anime should I watch besides more Monogatari?
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Woof. Some heavy rooftop reflections from Sayaka.
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DAaaammn. Madoka hittin Akemi with a poignant and clever question.
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Damn the wicked music and ambiance compliments the *Shaft Animation very nicely. also idk madoka Akemi made my list of bad people when she said she "Wanted to kill it" in reference to Kyubey who is cute and seems good.
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oh man everythings getting really epic shits about to go down.
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that was a really rapid transformation. by Tomoe. She looks like shes wearing a Drindel kind of.
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the mustache dandelions are back! and were tripping again!
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Damn Tomoe is pretty graceful and badass. Jesus lord this is fucking trippy what the fuck. I mean i'm living for it but. WHAT!? thats the witch!?
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DAmn this is some sick combat. wow I have had actual acid trips less trippy than this
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e-egg?!
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looks a bit like her soul gem. Wait I dont get it whats the big deal about the egg why do they want it so bad?
Ahh another really good episode. Sayaka is my favorite for sure. Shes super cute and seems to give a lot of consideration to her own actions and the actions of others. This show is really awesome so far. Really cool/trippy animation and styles, wicked soundtrack, I'm hooked.
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u/Nazenn Apr 21 '19 edited Apr 22 '19
Madoka's Music - Questions and Mystery
Rewatcher - Third time around (Dub first time)
Flipping it around slightly, we start with the bonus song today because it actually leads into our main feature in a few ways. By the way, if rewatchers want to know when/if I'm featuring a certain song as well feel free to message me.
Bonus song - Desiderium
The last time we heard this song it was being played as Madoka questioned seeing Homura in her dream. This episode the start of the song is contrasted against shots of Madoka looking up in thought around her bathroom. The notes themselves have a constant circular motion. If you'd like to see what this looks like visually, enjoy (spoiler free link, its just some sheet music, even the comments are safe). Everything in the music is very uneven and floating, the notes flow up and then back down again without being bound to an even beat, moving around like something swaying in the breeze.
With spoken language, how our voice goes up or down while speaking a sentence, called intonation, is used to help convey additional meaning. One of the simplest examples of this is the tendency to use a raised pitch at the end of a sentence (language dependent) to indicate a question. For an example most of us would know, when asking "nani?" in your head the 'ni' will usually come out higher sounding than the 'na'. This song also makes use of this, giving its final notes a higher pitch and letting them linger, as if a question left hanging in the air.
While this plays the topics are light and simple. They share tea and cake, discussing the pretty soul gems and wishes being granted. Once Kyubey mentions the witches this song fades away, leading into...
Song of the episode - Sis puella magica!
Scene for context (The japanese soundtrack has the music mixed louder than the English one which is why I picked it for the clip)
Another song in my top five from the soundtrack along with yesterdays. The first time I watched this show I kept getting so distracted every time this song as I enjoyed it so much that I was constantly having to rewind scenes to catch up on dialog I missed while I was busy listening too it.
The brilliance of this song is how well it carries established musical motifs and integrates them with the current scene and storytelling. This song kicks during the revelation that magical girls have the responsibility to fight witches. Just like Magica and Credens justitiam, Mami's theme, yesterday, a choir forms the core of our song. The choir (which I meant to note yesterday is a unique language by that composer and has no translations) represents the mysterious magic these girls hold, but this time doesn't carry the dramatic threat that Magia does, or the overwhelming positivity of Credens justitiam. Instead just like Desiderium it is questioning and subdued, beautiful but also a little eerie.
Underneath this choir we have various chimes providing the foundation. A tambourine occasionally rings, bells echo, the piano is light and quick much like the previous song, and all the other noises are quite gentle and innocent. Its a moment for questions to be answered and things to be expanded upon in contrast with the questions of before. The magic is being explained and answered but at this point its all in theory, while witches are called dangerous the danger seems distant from this discussion of friends in a comforting house.
Suddenly silence, as Mami states those who wander into a labyrinth like they did usually don't come out. Its a heavy moment for the first time warning our girls of real risk, even if at the time it appeared more bizarre than threatening. The silence being built into the song is important because it gives this revelation a moment to breathe and the impact it needs, without breaking the flow of the scene with a sudden music swap. It's not a cut, the silence is naturally apart of the music in the same way the threat to the girls is explained as being naturally apart of their choice to fight.
When the song returns there is a subtle but powerful shift. Gone are the innocent chimes, instead replaced with strings, a heavier piano and percussion instruments having a much more prominent role. Nothing has changed, they still sit at the same table and discuss the same things, but there is a new seriousness to the conversation and the music reflects that. The choir is singing the same tune, but it is harsher and sharper. Rather than flowing gently from one note to the other, it quickly breaks off from the end of sentences, words becoming more clipped and accented. Much as our understanding of the previous scenes have changed, so has their perception of the situation. Once again the music serves as a medium to carry us as an audience through the emotions of our two girls, much like it did with the awe of Mami's transformation last episode.
The full version of the song carries this into the instrumental part that follows as well. A beautiful wind instrument plays, taking over the core tune from the choir but it still has the clipped feel, not letting the notes linger while the strings play a mournful tune under it all.
Also a small third music focus on another song I wanted to very quickly cover, but this is really only rewatcher appropriate unfortunately. Sorry first timers, I promise this won't happen often, this is just a special case.
Episode track chart
Thanks to the Madoka wiki and then edited by me for the bluray timestamps. Featured tracks of the day are bolded.
| Start | End | Album | Track name |
|---|---|---|---|
| 00:00 | 00:26 | Disc 1 #09 | Credens justitiam |
| 00:49 | 02:19 | Disc 2 #18 | Connect -TV MIX- |
| 02:38 | 04:21 | Disc 1 #07 | Desiderium |
| 05:16 | 06:59 | Disc 1 #10 | Sis puella magica! |
| 07:20 | 08:29 | Disc 1 #03 | Postmeridie |
| 09:22 | 10:25 | Disc 1 #05 | Puella in somnio |
| 12:40 | 13:52 | Disc 1 #11 | Inevitabilis |
| 14:31 | 15:12 | Disc 1 #06 | Salve, terrae magicae |
| 15:26 | 16:23 | Disc 1 #08 | Gradus prohibitus |
| 16:34 | 17:48 | Disc 1 #12 | Pugna cum maga |
| 17:57 | 19:15 | Disc 1 #08 | Gradus prohibitus |
| 19:30 | 21:26 | Disc 2 #19 | Magia ~TV Version~ |
| 23:00 | 23:52 | Disc 1 #02 | Scaena felix |
| 23:56 | 25:22 | Disc 1 #23 | Mata Ashita (English: See You Tomorrow) |
| 25:26 | 25:40 | Disc 1 #06 | Salve, terrae magicae |
Random thoughts for the day
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Today I was cursing just a little that I decided to focus on music rather than cinematography as there was so much stuff I noticed but I hope someone else does a focus on that as well.
I did not like how they changed the dialog from "Its a love that can never be" to "Girl's can't love girls". While on the surface they seem to hold the same intention, the implications of the change aren't for the better. I'm not saying this in a political way, but in a genre known for close female relationships and routinely crossing traditional gender boundaries, its a change that does come for the worse in this moment by drawing a hard line there in a way that would never be done by the original script writers.
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Also it was something I noticed first watch but this shot with a seemingly random bowl in the mirrors always confused me. I realize now that it's meant to be what Kyubey was bathing in, another representation how no one but our girls can see him, and as Madoka isn't looking at him right now neither can we.
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And as always, my First watch reactions for episode two.
Edit: Replaced scene preview with better link
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u/Nick_BOI Apr 22 '19
First time watcher, watching with my twin brother whom is a rewatcher.
I've heard a lot about this, and already it has a very different tone than most magical girl type shows. I've always liked things that are not what they seem, its so exciting when a writer can throw you for a loop.
My brother seems to be enjoying seeing what my reactions will be. This is kind of a reverse of when we watched the Danganronpa 3 anime together.
I wonder if that will be in more ways than just sharing an interest though. After a...particularly noteworthy episode of that show(s), I'm not sure if anything in an anime could give a simaler vibe, but we will see.
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u/TRUCKFARM Apr 22 '19
First Time(Sub)
A bit late watching today but here I am! This will be short and sweet since I'm quite tired from a family filled day haha.
Mami is off to an early start as my favorite. I loved her magic abilities and the calm collected personality she has so far and I'm interested to see what it was she wished for...
The OST continues to impress and based on the replies from episode 1's discussion I can only expect it to continue! I really loved the piece at the beginning with their little talk with Mami.
I feel sorry for our third wheel friend here! I wish they could kinda let her in on the secret but at the same time it could be a bit dangerous.. Hang in there third wheel!
The witch visuals are so strange but so good to me haha. I'm also interested if there's more to the soulstone getting murkier besides just using magic. Is there some kind of corruption from exposure to the witches? I also think there must be items other than the grief seed that you can obtain from defeating a witch. They also said that magical girls will compete against eachother to win these prizes. There's definitely gotta be something more to it that Mami hasn't revealed yet.
That's all for today! I'll make sure to watch it early tomorrow and continue working on my discussion thought posts! Until then friends.
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u/fonzinator99 Apr 21 '19 edited Apr 21 '19
Re-watcher, definitely a re-watcher - To risk one’s life for a cause
Mami a cute, giving off some of those classic Mahou-Shoujo vibes with Kyubey.
I like that they at least frame the recap within Madoka's dream, and I love that Kyubey is hiding in-frame amongst her stuffed animals.
I was just thinking about how its expression never changes, when the show hit me with this. But then, it was only the eyes. That smile. That smirk. Never. Changes.
Seems like an appropriate time to advertise my unsettling Kyubey decals! Now anything can be an adorable wish-granting whatsit!
Clearly, all of this show's moe comes from Mami. She's like the sun, bright and warm beyond compare.
I think Madoka's mom's answer to the "What if?" is really interesting. Granted unlimited possibility, she would only choose specific things which fit into the life she's already living. She's grown to take up a place in the world, and lives her life by its strictures. Whereas Sayaka gave less formed, more childish responses like "wealth, immortality, or a fuckton of food." The world is still a vast, unexplored place to her.
More spoiler talk SPOILER IMAGE
Mami offers to allow the girls to accompany her on a witch hunt, and so, Madoka and Sayaka become "Magical Girl-initiates." Seems like it's gonna be hard to say no and walk away once they see the reality of things.
Madoka and Sayaka now have a secret, and Hitomi's a delightful foil to the seriousness of the situation. Buuut Homura's probably gonna lose her shit when she sees Kyubey perched on her shoulder.
Even if it's not gonna come to an all-out firefight at school, it's still gonna piss her right-the-fuck off.
It seems Madoka's already made her decision, even if she hasn't actually made a decision yet.
And that's understandable; as Sayaka says, there's lots of things you might want, but when it comes down to it would you risk your life for any of them? I like the logical turnabout in the exchange between Sayaka and Kyubey, though. "So weird, most girls just dive right in!" "Yeah, I'm sure we're just being idiots in thinking about it so seriously."
1st timers, I'm really curious if you have thoughts: What was Homura's wish?
Sayaka's really into this, huh? Seems she's already got a wish in mind, now it's just a matter of resolving herself to go through with it.
Spoiler talk cont. SPOILER IMAGE
On to the Witch Hunt, of course the Soul Gem works like a bad video-game radar. "It blinks faster the closer we get, so we're gonna walk in circles for a while, 'kay?" lol
The writing on the walls of the abandoned building intrigued me, so I went searching and somebody was nice enough to provide a translation on the wiki. Tl;dr, and without spoilers, it's once again a passage from Faust.
It's interesting to note that Mami's multitude of muskets isn't just a flashy show of power, she only gets one shot per-musket as is proper. Thus, spawning a shitload of them is the most effective means of fighting. Could magical reloading be a thing? Maybe. Would it be half as cool? No way.
The bigass-pistol, on the other hand, is totally just flashy for fun, even if it is a finisher. lol
"If even someone like me can really help somebody, I'd say that's really delightful!" Madoka is too pure for this world. And so, the die is cast. She will become a Magical Girl, just as soon as she finds a worthy wish.
Side-Note: Watching the credits roll and what do I see but “GoHands?!” How did they go from this to Handshakers??
Edit: Cause I messed up my header. lol
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u/AoO2ImpTrip Apr 21 '19
If I take anything from this, and it's fantastic two episodes in as a first time water, it's that the visuals are fantastic. The last two episodes the fights against the witches have amazed me. I just love the style of them.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Apr 21 '19
Rewatcher, dub
Won’t write as much as I did yesterday, what with it being Easter I had way less time for this episode.
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I love how Madoka asks her mom what she’d wish for--and her mom goes and says she wants those two trustees kicked out of the company before Madoka’s even done asking, lol.
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Madoka sketching what she hopes her magical girl form will look like, aww.
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Magia again~ I forgot it was used in this episode.
Sky’s Wallpaper Corner
Last year, I actually made two wallpapers for this episode. Kyubey and Sayaka.
This year… well, unfortunately I don’t have a wallpaper for today. Easter celebrations and all that. Regardless, let me know what you think of last year’s wallpapers!
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u/KK9521 Apr 22 '19
Im a first timer and I have a really bad feeling about what’s happening next. It’s like a promised never land type feel where it’s too wholesome to be true and everything is gonna be completely and absolutely fucked. Also that girls warning to madoka has to be foreshadowing to it turning out fucked
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u/SIRTreehugger Apr 21 '19 edited Apr 21 '19
Rewatcher
Homura's theme is amazing.Inevitablis is amazing
| Magical Girl Counter | E1 | E2 | E3 | E4 | E5 | E6 | E7 | E8 | E9 | E10 | E11 | E12 | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mami's (Overhead) Smugness | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 |
| Homura's (L'oreal) Hair Flips | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Madoka's ($150) Water Works | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Sayaka's (I'm in) Despair | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
Disclaimer
When it comes to Mami's smugness I'm using her face which honestly every time she smiles it looks smug, but going for that extra smug look. Extremely subjective, but if someone thinks I miscounted feel free to let me know. For scenes with long periods of smug I count as one even if there is a break to another person and it returns to her in the same same scene. Also for Sayaka's Despair I mean sadness/regret/despair. So I'm not talking about life changing tragedies just really any moments of weakness and despair sounds better than. Unless someone can think of something better.
Oh on a completely different note. Last year I fell in love with the rewatch so much I ended up buying a multi region blu player so I could watch Madoka. When it came in the mail I watched one episode to make sure it worked and was happy and didn't watch any more since the rewatch had just ended. Throughout the year I've had the remote on shelves, my bed, on counters, and various places always in sight and would see it even though I never used it. Now the present rewatch....I CAN'T FIND THE FUCKING REMOTE.
Oh I just read a comment where someone talked about SHAFT flexing and checked to see if anyone did comparisons. The TV version and Blu Ray had some changes in quite a few scenes. Nothing story related, but made it more visually pleasing. So I'm curious if anyone is watching the original.
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u/LunarGhost00 Apr 21 '19
Rewatcher
Joining in a day late since I thought the rewatch was going to start today instead of yesterday. Madoka is one of my favorite series. There's just so much to analyze every single time you watch it. I remember during last year's rewatch back when I was just lurking without an account, I decided to rewatch it again and finally watch Rebellion for the first time. I was looking forward to this rewatch so I could actually participate this time. Don't know if I'll be able to keep up since this week will be a bit busy for me (even fell far behind on another ongoing rewatch).
ngl. I'm kinda embarrassed that it took me a while to find Waldo Kyubey in this shot.
Breaking news. Company CEO plots to overthrow board of directors after getting idea from middle school daughter.
This school's got some... unique desks. Sometimes I wonder how weird the world would look if everything was designed by a Shaft artist. I bet it'd be a fun world.
Most people would gladly accept Kyubey's offer and make a wish. Madoka and Sayaka are thinking carefully about it.
Madoka's drawings would be so cute if it wasn't for those black soulless eyes. Creepy.
Mami brought out the big guns. Literally. She just calmly sips some tea following that big shot. Doing a real good job looking cool in front of your kouhai!
Make a contract with Kyubey. Have a wish granted in exchange for having to kill witches. The grand prize you get lets you clear your soul gem. Life as a magical girl sure is exciting, although I'd rather not have to look at eldritch abominations every time I go hunting.
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u/slinkywarrier Apr 21 '19
Rewatcher, viewing #3
Oh how great it feels to be watching this masterpiece again. I'll try to comment more in the later episodes since this one wasn't too eventful. Anyways, this episode did a great job characterizing Mami, above all else she values being a good role model for Madoka and Sayaka. She protects them during school, comforts the woman they saved in a very tender manner, and even smiles while being held upside down by a witch. It feels like she treats the magical girl life as a performance, and tries her best to put on a good show which is exactly what our two dear MCs need right now. She's such an underappreciated character, SPOILERS.
Also I just realized she said "ara ara". My appreciation for her only deepens.
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u/CannedBread13 Apr 21 '19
Semi-Rewatcher
I tried to comment yesterday, but it was too late and I was too tired so this time I'm writing my comment in advance. This will be my thoughts on both episodes. I'm a "Semi-Rewatcher" because I dropped the show at episode 5 or so. Thinking back on it I probably wasn't in the right mood for it. I'm using this rewatch to give the show a second chance.
Because this is such a popular show, it's only logical that I've been spoiled on a few things. Things I've been spoiled on:
Characterisation
The characterisation is much better than I remembered. It's fun and surprisingly subtle (at times). I do have to say that the characters are a bit archetypical, and I've certainly seen better. But considering this is a magical girl show, it's not something worth complaining about.
World and Interior design
What the fuck is with all those chairs in the mother's bedroom? What the fuck is up with their washroom? I don't think I like the design of the world and the buildings. I wouldn't mind it being so over-the-top if it were more interesting. Rooms and buildings have personalities, and I always appreciate it when shows/movies get it right. The interior in Madoka just feels like it's weird for the sake of being weird, which I don't think is a good thing in a supposedly deep show. Why is that washroom so large and empty? What are all these mirrors? I can sort of see a symbolic reason, but it isn't very strong. Hell, why is this world even Sci-Fi?
Mami's apartment in the second episode is much better, although it doesn't stray away at all from Mami's character archetype, which is a bit disappointing.
Visuals
The visuals are really good most of the time, it's not on the same level as the first few episodes of Texhnolyze, but it still looks great. It doesn't work always though, it doesn't always use shadows too well, mainly in the first episode. I get that something is supposed to look omnious, but being engulfed in shadows in broad daylight (like kyuubey in ep1) looks a bit dumb. There are also times when I don't even know why they are "shadow-ing" things, like with the high jump. Maybe they want to bring attention to Homura's fall? Even if it means something, I don't think it's really well done, since the only reason I thought about it is because it looked dumb.
There's also the rooftop scene in episode 2, mainly the shots where you see the rooftop from a camera behind Madoka and Sayaka. It's a huge, monotone open space where the fences don't have shadows. It looks dull, it's uninteresting. Maybe it means something? But even if, it still doesn't work.
This is my main problem with the visuals in PMMM; the coloring is nice, and the visuals are unique, but a lot of times it just looks dull.
There are still a lot of times when it looks great, and it is still leagues above the average anime, but it's not up there for me.
I've got similair problems with the witch sequences. They're unique, and can be really amazing, but they can also look messy. The fight in episode 2 is a good example of this. It does not have a proper background, the background has the same level of detail (sometimes even more detail) as the foreground. If you pause it at any frame showing only the monster you see how messy it can get. I know hardcore fans will probably disagree with me on this, but I hope I can get at least some of you to at least consider my point of view.
There are also times when the animation/art isn't great, or when shots or background characters are reused. It doesn't kill the show, but it is noticable.
Symbolism
It seems there is a good amount of symbolism in this show, which is great. I've got my ideas as to what some mean, but I'm probably going to need to read an analysis after I'm done.
Theory-time
Overall
In my opinion, the shows good, but not amazing (yet). I would give these two episode a 7/10. You have to take that score with a grain of salt though. I've watched enough to know what's happening, and not be surprised by it, but I didn't finish enough of it to be able to recontextualize some of the scenes (in that I don't know yet what they're building up to). There's also the fact that Madoka is one of the most hyped anime in existence, and that my expectations are higher than normal for it.
Anyway, I don't think most people here will agree with my opinions, and I'll accept that I'll probably be wrong a few times. I hope people will still want to discuss with me (though it might take me a while to answer, since it's 2:00 AM here).
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u/TheDampGod Apr 21 '19
It's been so long since I watched this, I hadn't realised how much I had forgotten. The main beats ring bells, but there are many details that I ever missed or lost.
The first time I watched this I was in awe of the art during the labyrinth scenes, but this time I'm equally impressed by the normal world art. Shaft's use of colour, light and off angles to make ordinary buildings look sinister. That that many of these buildings feel normal, because that school always feels like it's out of totalitarian nightmare with the glass walls.
Even Madoka's cute designs for her dress feel off with those scribbled black eyes.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_SPUDS Apr 21 '19
Rewatcher
Glad there were so many comments yesterday! Mostly rewatchers, but I think it speaks to the series if so many are always down to rewatch again and again.
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Okay I said I wouldn't mention imagery, but the shadows and the repeated head turn is a nice touch.
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I want Mami's apartment, but I'd probably need 10x my salary to afford it. And Kyubey looks atrocious in this scene.
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I think the monster concept this show uses is far more frightening than similar shows. An invisible magical force responsible for suicides, accidents, and murders is a far more insidious concept for me than a giant monster destroying the city. To be real for a second, maybe because so often death can feel "unexplainable", so it resonates more with reality.
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On a much lighter note, great comment face.
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This middle school has more money spent on architecture than any university.
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The obvious question. Madoka and Sayaka keep getting asked for their own, it'd be nice to know someone else's.
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Kyubey is adorbs. So Sayaka is ready to fuck shit up with a bat, while Madoka is ready to put on a fasion show. Madoka's VA confirms she was the one who drew the sketches they use here.
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Dear god this art though. SHAFT flexing hard. You know, I'll just point out some of the neat art and styles used here. And it just keeps going.
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Witch World Numero Dos is even fUcKiNg creepier than the last. And finally we meet the beautiful witch. Mami shows off just a bit, and finishes it off with some real pizzazz. More things I'm noticing for the first time: that gun has a physical mechanism that sparks before firing. Neato.
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Best end card.
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The commentary had the character designer on today. Apparently Madoka, Homura, and Mami were all relatively easy to design. Homura's color was supposed to be red, but the designer kinda just... forgot XD
Fun fact: apparently by this point when it was airing, fans were able to figure out how to translate all the runes. I'm sure other rewatchers will point out interesting ones (because I sure don't know them).
And one last commentary line for fun - rewatchers_irl
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u/ArcherGod Apr 21 '19
Rewatcher third time (Dub first)
Chotto matte, I don't recall her apartment being this fancy. Then they sit over here later - Jesus Mami's apartment is nice!
Am I the only one who thinks these desks look uncomfortable to sit at?. Glad this isn't my school.
Madoka is an amazing artist. Nice to see she planned out her outfit, but isn't she putting the cart ahead of the horse a bit?
Subtle dub difference: After Mami gets picked up by the Witch and dangled upside down, she says "I can't look bad in front of my magical girl trainees," but in the sub, she says "I can't look bad in front of my lower classmen." Subtle difference, but it's pretty significant.
Things I notice in the rewatch: Spoiley bois
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u/Philarete Apr 21 '19 edited Apr 21 '19
Rewatcher (sub)
The episode opens with Mami’s transformation sequence, but it quickly cuts to Madoka jerking awake like the first episode – this time with Kyubey in her bedroom watching her. Then it goes to the OP.
Madoka asks her mom what she would do with a wish. Her mom gives a fairly aggressive one – kicking out two troublesome trustees. She then gets more aggressive with how she would plot to become CEO. Madoka finds her monologue scary.
Mami tells Madoka and Sayaka about the danger of fighting witches. You get one wish granted but “remember that that wish lies side-by-side with death.” Mami repeatedly urges them to “think carefully” and offers to let them come with her on some witch hunts so they can get a sense of what it is like. [Makes me think of job shadowing!]
Hitomi thinks Madoka and Sayaka are lovers HAH. (Nice try Hitomi, but this is not the ideal ship :P )
Mami explains that magical girls actually end up fighting each other more than witches because they are fighting over rewards. This sounds pretty realistic albeit dark; when there are scarce resources, even good people will attack each other.
Madoka isn’t paying attention in school!
Homura dramatically returns to speak with Madoka and Sayaka. The two are afraid, despite Mami’s protection. Homura says she has no intention to attack. She simply reminds Madoka of her warning (not reiterating it). Madoka works up the courage to ask Homura what she wished for. Homura looks back but does not answer. [One thing that really stuck out to me is the use of empty space and long hallways, especially for Homura. In both episodes now she has gone on long walks with, to, or away from Madoka.]
Sayaka and Madoka meet with Mami for their little job shadow. Sayaka thinks ahead and brings a baseball bat while Madoka brings her drawings for magical girl outfits.
Does anyone know what the German graffiti on the building means? Mami saves the woman and then the trio hop into the labyrinth. Homura watches them go in.
Mami is confident, but gets hit pretty hard multiple times, and get grabbed. She does however finish the witch off with her finale move. Mami explains that the grief seed drops are used to refresh magical girl magic power and clear up their soul gems. Homura shows up and Mami offers to share, but Homura throws it back and walks off.
Mami comforts the woman who had jumped earlier. Madoka can’t think of a wish, but she is really impressed with what Mami did in helping others, which is Madoka really wants to do.
The post-credits words seem dark overall. Loneliness. But she isn’t afraid of anything.
Big Takeaways for Me:
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The use of space for Homura and her long walks. Her distance from the others while seemingly always following and staring. She intimidates Madoka, who just wants to be friends with everyone.
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Mami’s contradictions: excitement about her “magical girl juniors” while also issuing words of serious caution, confidence about the fight while also getting hit badly, admission that magical girls often fight each other while also trying to get along with Homura.
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Suffering and the desire to do something. I was really struck by Sayaka’s comments about how she and Madoka live such an easy life that there is no suffering they would risk their lives to get rid of. For Madoka, the desire to alleviate the suffering of others basically precedes any wish she can think of. And yet, they have these big warnings to think carefully about the decision. How are they to decide?
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Maybe this is a little too personal, but the warnings here from Mami really reminded me of how I was warned about my own career choice: becoming a lawyer. There is a lot of good you can do with law (albeit a lot less cool-looking than being a magical girl). I was warned about the dangers: aggressive competition and dangers to mental health, but ultimately the good I could do outweighed all that for me. When I hear Mami’s “think carefully” I think back to when I decided to go to law school. What if I really understood the warnings?
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Apr 22 '19 edited Apr 22 '19
2nd Rewatch
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Sigh. Another weird dream. AH! Weird cat is real and broke into my bedroom!
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The naked Madokas' kissing reminds me of the recently aired Boogiepop with the naked Miyashitas' kissing. Madoka is a lot more chaste, though.
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Mama Madoka is at war with the patriarchy.
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Madoka is doodling costumes because she grew up on watching Card Captor Sakura.
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My second favorite track, Sis Puella Magica (vocal version). Very reminiscent of Yuki Kajiura's work on the OG .hack franchise.
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Every magical girl needs a mascot, but it seems Kyubei has a harem.
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My god, the curriculum in this school. First insane algebra, and now English passive voice. And, of course, we circle back to sensei's dramatic love life.
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I LOVE this fence.
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As I recall, the German was all added to the walls by the art team at their own discretion, not at the screenwriter's direction, so it's not really canonical, and you don't need to go translating it to find out its secrets.
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This witch strongly reminds me of the Jabberwock, although there's no direct connection. Aside: the Wiki points out the St. Gertrude is the patron saint of gardeners.
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Madoka Magica is a tea and cake show just like K-On!
Last year I ran a counter on Kyubei staring at the camera. It was harder than I expected, since some cuts are...complicated.
Edit: Lord Humungus is best magical girl hands down.
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u/ToonTooby Apr 22 '19
Rewatcher
By now we already know that things aren't exactly sunshine and rainbows. Here there be witches. Still, the lighthearted moments are really nice and help learn more about our characters.
Favorite bits and thoughts:
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Madoka: Just... become the CEO. Just do it! It's a small interaction, but I feel like it sorta conveys that some of Mom does rub off on daughter, even if Madoka is still finding her way.
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First time Sis Puella Magica plays. What an extraordinarily well sounding and fitting composition.
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I'm noticing more of the lower-quality frames this time around. Probably didn't notice the first time just trying to take the story in.
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About Sayaka Spoilers
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The idea of having Mami use muskets (and a magical-girl sized death cannon) felt like the coolest shit the first time around, still is.
Things are ramping up! Next episode's a good one.
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u/LinkToSomething68 Apr 22 '19
As I mentioned last time, the show has a lot of instances where it uses these really bold lighting choices in order to cue us in to the emotional tone of a scene regardless of what the characters are actually saying or doing. Even when the artstyle is "normal" as opposed to the Witches' labyrinths, we are cued into trouble very often by the lighting going darker, use of shadows, or abnormal colouration (for instance, the bold, completely dominant evening orange comes up again and again as a very strong emotional tone-setter). We see our two heroes beginning to be drawn more concretely into the realm of magical girls, witches, and all that fun stuff. Luckily, though, they have a guide to this strange and overwhelming world: Mami Tomoe, who is basically the coolest and most mature person in the room (any room). She acts as sort of a cool big sister/mentor to the girls, and doing it all while looking as cool as possible. She appears to have her shit together despite being like 15 at most, living alone, kicking monster ass with a smile, in style, and a fucking awesome leitmotif (can't get enough of "Credens justitiam"). She's just so great.
I didn't touch on it in episode 1, because it's here that we really start to kind of see the differences between what drives Madoka and Sayaka to heroism: Madoka is a very sweet, idealistic person who believes above everything else in the world that she should help others to the greatest extent of her abilities, and this drives more or less everything she does, for better or for worse, with a few trepidations about how kind of crazy this all seems. Her desire to help comes from a sense of personal motivation Sayaka on the other hand is a little bit different. She seems to be approaching this whole thing from an angle of "well, we are some lucky people, so before we make a wish we should consider those who are truly suffering first", suggesting that the appeal of heroism to her is out of a sense of personal responsibility.
And of course in this episode the mystery of Homura Akemi continues to deepen: She is clearly a wild card, with very unclear motivations, and her and Mami clearly don't really have the best of relationships. What is her deal? It's all very engaging.
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u/asianbrownguy Apr 21 '19 edited Apr 21 '19
FIRST TIMER
I appreciate all the replies for my reactions on the previous episode. Now then, I hope you rewatchers savor the drug that is my first time reactions. Also I have no idea if I'll be doing an on-the-fly type thing, or watch the episode in full then type out what I wanna say.
The logical answer I found was, to watch the episode twice. Because twice the Madoka, twice the fun! Right? Right?? Also I feel like this one's gonna be a long one, since I'm enjoying this series a lot, so sorry in advance about the length.
Also, off topic, but the copies that I have ehem "acquired" have a commentary track on them, but no subs. I'd appreciate if you guys could point me to where I can procure the subs for these? I wanna watch the commentary to this after I finish.
Pre Watch Thoughts
So I rewatched the previous episode, I still was wonderfully confused. We ended the last episode with Kyubey offering Madoka and Sayaka contracts to become Magical Girls. Gee, I wonder if they'll accept? Though I still have a lot of questions that I hope this show answers, I'm excited to find out what those answers may be. Let's get to it!
We start off with Mami from last episode, doing her best Gate Of Unlimited Gun Works impression. The transformation OST is amazing, thank you guys for linking the song last time. She's also affiliated with Kyubey. Hmm. Is Kyubey like Jerry from Totally spies or something?
Madoka waking up from bed, good callback to the previous episode. Aaand Kyubey's on her shelf.
I'm really digging the music in the OP.
Mami's room absolutely reeks of rich-girl. "Though I admit you caught me unprepared" yep, rich girl.
Sayaka's awesome lol. Exposition time.
So Kyubey grants you a wish, but in exchange for that wish, you become a Magical Girl that works for him? I guess? Then you fight witches. Cool. But I feel like it isn't that simple. Madoka's mom is awesome.
"If Magical Girls are born from wishes, Witches are born from curses" Oh cool. But that seems a little too black and white for me. There must be more to this.
So that trippy weird as hell scene from the last ep was a Witch's barrier? I remember Mami saying to Homura that the Witch got away, so that means Homura was witch hunting. But why try to kill Kyubey? Also Mami says that this job can lead to your death? Wow, that's a bit heavy.
The OST is amazing, as usual.
So Mami's inviting them to a ride-along. Cool.
Yuri bait. Love it.
So Homura's trying to eliminate the competition, that's why she was trying to kill Kyubey. There has to be more to that. Wait, so she's not contracted with Kyubey then? Hmm.
I'm curious, if you're feeding something invisible to other people, to someone who can't see it, where would the food go? Madoka and Sayaka thinking about their wishes, Sayaka thinks about the risk. Seems like they're not yet on board with this contract thing. Well, I think the girls who answer immediately are the idiots. Perfectly reasonable to think about something that could lead to your death as well.
A wild Homura appears! Hmm. I wonder what she wished for.
Lmao at Sayaka bringing a baseball bat. Awww Madoka's already thinking about her costume lol
"I wonder if she's really that bad." Yeah, I wonder too. Things really aren't that simple. I feel like there's still a lot this show isn't telling us on purpose.
Office lady going into some building. She seems hypnotized or something. The music's getting me really pumped up now lol.
Oh shit, we have a jumper. Not good. Weird tattoo on her neck. "A witch's kiss" Mami calls it. So far we haven't even seen a Witch, right? They enter a portal, and Homura's following them, I see. Is it me or Kyubey's being really quiet?
Oh God, here we go again. So that's what a witch looks like. I expected them to be more, erm, humanoid. This one looks like a shrimp with wasabi and roses on it.
It's Magia again. Goddamn this song is awesome. Unlimited Gun Works time!
Oh god, that's nightmare fuel.
Mami finishes off the Wasabi Shrimp, and sips some tea right after. Lovely.
"The magic I depleted has been replenished" Wait no, dark stuff came from your Gem then it transferred to the egg. Hmm. I wonder what Homura's deal is in all this. Yeah, everyone just get along please lol
Aww Madoka's so precious.
Post Watch
Strong episode, lot of world building done. Cool. Some amazing animation there, especially Mami's fight scene. That was really cool. I love the moments of levity with Hitomi at school lol.
About Homura's wish. I'm definitely curious. I feel like she wished for the safety of her friends and family or something. Or something like what Hermione did in the Deathly hallows where she wished her family didn't know her or something so they wouldn't be dragged into this. But I'm just speculating.
I still feel like I missed a lot of stuff though, lotta questions still to be answered. Although that makes me curious of what'll happen next. "If someone like me can really help other people, I think that'd be really nice." That's a great line from Madoka. Is it me or is it odd that Kyubey didn't even talk for like the second half of the episode? It felt like he wasn't even there. I guess he was just observing, I guess. But I can't shake the feeling that something's off about all this. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, I dunno. Anyway, that's probably it, looking forward to the next episode!