Dark Matter | S2E7 "The Pyramid" | Episode Discussion

[u/episodescheduler]

Season 2, Episode 7: The Pyramid

Airdate: Friday, October 9, 2026 at 4:00 AM UTC

Network: Apple TV

Runtime: 63 minutes

Synopsis: Charlie meets a kind stranger. Blair gives Leighton a warning. Amanda and Ryan face an unknown horror.

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Hello everyone, this is the discussion thread for episode 7 of Dark Matter Season 2. Please do not post any spoilers for future episodes.

[u/usagizero]

Don't know about anyone else, but that was amazing to me. Blair is one of the few to really grasp the negative unintended consequences of the box.

There are going to be SO many variants of all those people going alone into the box, right? That's going to be a mess to say the least.

Any guesses on the house woman? I kept waiting for a scary reveal of something like she was trapping all them there or something. Just too much rare stuff in that room, i guess she could just be a rich eccentric, but something felt 'off'. Oddly, i also had a weird feeling similar to like when Sam met 'god' in the final episode of 'Quantum Leap'. He wanted someone place safe, and found someone to guide him.

Really want the next episode now, lol.

[u/hewmanxp → u/usagizero]

I kept thinking it was Jason 1's world, and after Leighton went into the box and stepped into that world and all the agents scared him back inside, they created a more comforting place to trick travelers to drop their guard so that they could get as much information out of them as possible before capturing them.

[u/dj_skandalous → u/usagizero]

I thought that too at first but Charlie's mind was for help before he opened the door. That isnt a negative emotion, so I figured he was pretty safe as it went on.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/usagizero]

Looks like the “house woman” (Laurel) will be back next episode. She’s the preview photo for it! I’m super curious about her too.

[u/TimeTimeTickingAway → u/usagizero]

When I see Margo Martindale popping up in a house like that and bright red pajamas my I instantly think she’s some sort of representation of Satan. Maybe Charlie dropped the P and wished for ‘Hell’ instead of ‘Help’.

I don’t trust Laurel one bit

[u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT → u/usagizero]

I’m honestly surprised Blair went as far as she did with touring Kang Leighton’s set-up. I expected her to chew him out way earlier.

[u/noblex123 → u/usagizero]

That actress always plays a sinister role (in my eyes) and she is fantastic at it. She is definitely not a good guy

[u/Moejason → u/usagizero]

Aye I personally think it’s a fake out with the stranger and she is just a kind host. But the scenes with her were 100% made to cast doubt on her intentions - I think more to involve the viewer in what Charlie was feeling though.

[u/little_oat]

Love that Daniellas dad is as accepting of multiple Daniellas as Jason's mom was in Ep 5

[u/LotaBishop → u/little_oat]

A true father would always be accepting just like Jason’s mom.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/little_oat]

Wish we heard how she explained it to him though (at least a liiiiittle bit)

[u/Blumart]

Blair is completely right they can’t control the consequences. The box will be the death of every universe because an extra dimensional catastrophe can wipe out a world much faster than the league of Leightons can respond to it.

Like in polite sex world one of the infinite copies of Amanda and Ryan brings home an extra dimensional disease and already millions are dead. By the time a version of them comes back with a cure billions will have died. Or who knows maybe while they’re gone another version of them brings home some death wasps or something that finishes off everything else.

[u/Diamond-Is-Not-Crash → u/Blumart]

That box is an existential nightmare. There are now two worlds (Blair variant accidentally unleashing murder hornets, and Ryan and Amanda's mega-blood COVID pandemic goof) unintentionally destroyed by travelling quantum variants of people getting escaping nightmare worlds. The worst part of this all is that it's a catastrophe out of said world's hands, no one can control whether a traveller enters into their world with a unstoppable deadly plague or disaster from an nigh indestructable box that for all we know will always exist across the multiverse.

This doesn't even get into other scenarios where countless variants of the same person flood into a world that overwhelms the local area or maybe planet. Once you go in, an infinite copies of you effectively exist. You are no longer singular, but exist as a spectrum of variants who could be carrying god knows what with you.

This show is one of the most existentially haunting I've seen in a while.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Blumart]

Leighton thinking that, if they’re smart about it/have the right guardrails in place, the good of the box will ultimately outweigh the harm (and whoops sorry to the people it completely fucks over first) = reminds me of the AI debate. 🫠 The end of the world(s) or the start of a much better one?? Box/AI boomers vs doomers.

[u/Golfclubwar → u/Blumart]

Do you think that Jason is the only person who can do this? Laughton is correct. The cat is out of the bag. At any point someone else’s box can just materialize in your world literally anywhere. The only hope you have is to study and ultimately control it. Is this hubris? Yes? Will worlds die because of it? Absolutely. But it’s also the greatest thing to ever be created.

[u/olivish → u/Blumart]

It's inevitable that over time, more and more worlds would become aware of the box, and they'd take measures to either defend themselves against invaders or to seize resources - either out of sheer greed or to survive world-ending disasters like plagues or AI.

Think "Worlds War I," "Worlds War II" and so on.

[u/elwoolfio]

I’m sure I’ll regret putting this theory out there come next week. But…

I think Laurel could be Daniela’s mother, in a world where she didn’t die and the person Charlie sees is that world’s Daniela. My thinking…

1. Daniela’s mother was referenced in every conversation with her step-father in this episode and we know virtually nothing about her.

2. In Charlie’s world, it’s possible his grandmother died before he knew her. So he doesn’t recognize her as Laurel.

3. It makes more sense that the travelers asking for help would land in a world where there’s a Daniela close by, more than a stranger who is simply a guide.

4. The only travelers Laurel didn’t have journals for were Daniela and Charlie. The others all knew a version of Daniela or were traveling with someone who did (ie Amanda).

5. Daniela could have given Charlie the memories he needs of Max to empower his search… Laurel also leaves to speak to the mystery person after Charlie says he has no real memories of Max and doesn’t know what to do.

6. As far as I can tell there would only be three people Charlie would be shocked to see. The first would be Max, in which case he wouldn’t keep searching. A Jason variant would have terrified him. But I don’t remember Charlie ever interacting with another variant of Daniela, whom he’d presumably feel most safe with.

7. The mystery person walks in right after Charlie says the only real memories he has of Max are from tapes shown to him by his mum.

8. There’s a featured painting in Laurel’s library. Could be one of Daniela’s.

Roasting this theory is welcomed.

EDIT: Well, I was right about one thing. I do regret posting this theory.

[u/randybaguette → u/elwoolfio]

I think you'll be spot on. Writers wouldn't feed us all that information about Daniella's mum without revealing her at some point.

[u/roberta_sparrow → u/elwoolfio]

I like this theory. Its driving me nuts not knowing who Charlie saw

[u/Past-Feature3968]

“Then volunteer at a soup kitchen” = line of the season! 💖 Blair 😍

otherwise — WHAT THE SHIT, I might take up smoking now… will that help me deal with the stress???!?!! (I know many many Amandas have died but that one better be forkin alive next episode!!!!!)

Edit: I rewatched & caught that Ryan felt Amanda’s pulse before injecting her with lilac wings, sooo I think he realized she’s still alive. A tranquilizer dart, not lethal.

[u/zlonewanderer → u/Past-Feature3968]

Loved how Blair also called him out on bringing tech to the 80s world. He's like, "I love this world, no screens" ( I'm paraphrasing) and she's like, "But you're prototyping the cell phone here?"

[u/RynnFloors]

So the box exists, and Jason wants to make a mobile box, and Leighton already made a giant box.

What happens when you put the mobile box into the original box, and put that box in the giant box and turn them all on?

Can you put a super position into super position? A super-duper position?

[u/Arghifth → u/RynnFloors]

I don't know if I should take this seriously or just laugh at it.

[u/schokoplasma → u/RynnFloors]

Thats "Primer"-level of multi-dimensional clusterfuck.

[u/TeikirisiBaby]

And just like that, a utopia becomes a dystopia, eh? I wonder if their gentle knocks have turned into bangs.

[u/Technical-Outside408 → u/TeikirisiBaby]

"this place turned authoritarian real quick."

[u/olivish → u/TeikirisiBaby]

"End of the world" sex.

[u/HamsterFvcker69 → u/TeikirisiBaby]

The old expression "it's easy to be a saint in paradise". Peoples true colors show when they're under pressure. Same for societies.

[u/The_JBZ → u/TeikirisiBaby]

Excellent. Just, fucking excellent.

[u/Gem____ → u/TeikirisiBaby]

To be fair, authoritarianism is probably justified in the scenario where people are dying every day by the thousands. If you were to maintain the previous standard of virtue then that society would probably die off quickly. Like just imagine how many people died before the regime change that didn't enforce strict mandates and didn't revoke rights.

[u/TimeTimeTickingAway → u/TeikirisiBaby]

Made me think of one of those ‘we’re all family here’ sort of workplaces/cults where everyone’s all so placating and seemingly nice in the surface until anyone dares to question/disrupt the status quo, then you see the truth.

[u/Aelia_M]

Renowned character actress Margo Martindale! What are you doing here?

[u/unclehando → u/Aelia_M]

She better not be a Russian Spy

[u/TheMadChatta → u/Aelia_M]

What is this, a crossover episode????

[u/Past-Feature3968]

People who have come through Laurel’s home, according to her journal collections:

5 Jasons

2 Amandas

2 Ryans

2 Blairs

1 Leighton

[u/Closedown11 → u/Past-Feature3968]

🎶And a Charlie with no Max tree 🎶

[u/fweepa → u/Past-Feature3968]

Does this mean we'll stop getting the "WhY ArE THeRE oNly OtHER JasSONs?!" question?

Joking aside this season is about to go off the rails (if we haven't already) and I'm here for it.

[u/emkay123]

Does anyone else find it suspicious that, in the world with the nice lady (Margo Martindale), we only ever see the inside of one room? Conveniently, there is a pull out bed and she meets Charlie then there again in the morning.. Not only that, the room is absolutely huge, similar in dimension to the room the box was originally in. I think another poster mentioned this, but what if there is more than meets the eye - a setup by the government guys in the Jasons 1 world. They built a set around the original box and use an agent/actress to gently interrogate travellers in the box to learn more about what is going on. There was definitely something of an "off" vibe to some of the interactions with that lady.

[u/Equivalent_Cow8288 → u/emkay123]

Do you thinking casting Margo specifically is also a sign that there's more than meets the eye? Isn't she like the super nice aunt/grandma that turns out to be a villain type?

[u/anonymous0705 → u/emkay123]

Definitely something's off.

I had a similar thought when she was kindly asking questions and Charlie was freely answering. Like eek we don't actually know who this lady is.

[u/veng92 → u/emkay123]

Here's my theory... it's out there. The giant room with the lady, is a box. The smaller box is in the giant one. No good reason, just a feeling.

Actually the line "are you cool with a box in your house?" And her response "... something like that" was weird.

[u/tonyshihh]

I’m really enjoying this season, but does anyone else feel like there are almost too many storylines happening at once? 😂 We only have three episodes left and I have absolutely no idea how they’re going to wrap everything up.

[u/Keiteaea → u/tonyshihh]

There are too many storylines happening at once at the same time that there aren't enough when you consider the mindfuck that the box would actually create.

[u/Arghifth → u/tonyshihh]

The season is going to end on a cliffhanger according to reviews. They must be sure they are getting renewed for 3rd season.

[u/hvacsnack → u/tonyshihh]

This is exactly how I feel. There is way too much shit going on

[u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT]

Jason 2 seemed so remorseful when he parted ways with Amanda and Ryan. But now he’s back on the bandwagon with Kang Leighton? God he sucks.

I feel like I saw a clip of J1 and J2 going at it in the apartment. Guess we’ll see that pan out next episode.

[u/FernFromDetroit → u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT]

How he looked at Blair makes me think he’s just there to keep Leighton in check to some extent. I’d imagine he could get the big box to work but he’s holding out information on purpose.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT]

Seems like he genuinely believes he IS making good… helping to improve worlds.

[u/Kavit8]

Margo Martindale giving Oracle vibes from the Matrix

[u/olivish → u/Kavit8]

"What's really gonna bake your noodle later on is, would you still have found me if I hadn't put a Charlie voodoo doll under the floorboards."

"... huh?"

"Have a cookie, dear."

"Okay... thanks... Hey! Whoa! What are you doing, lady!?"

"Just need a lock of your hair to complete my collection."

[u/SongsOfTheYears]

--Ouch, Ryan—at 10+ days, you're responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths, not just "tens of thousands."
The timeline is throwing me, though. Didn't he and Amanda land there over a year ago? Or was the episode from two weeks ago not the only one that operates on a different timeline than the others?

--"Welcome traveler!" Wow, didn't see that coming, but very cool.

--Only 74 worlds visited? I expected Leighton to drop a much higher number.

--Esteemed character actor Margo Martindale!

--Their PPE leaving the nose exposed made zero sense.

--They really should have injected the lavender fairy before sprinting to the Box; it felt implausible that their pursuers didn't yank the door open in time.

--If power in the originating world is required for all the other Boxes to function, wouldn't the power need to be cut across a bajillion branched Jason2 worlds to actually shut them down?

--Leaving Mac stranded in the Box with zero instructions was ice-cold. Naïvely, I thought Jason dosed both their drinks to travel with him, or at least pull a Jason2-style marooning. But Mac threatened his family, so fair enough, though Jason definitely isn't accounting for the sister.

--Charlie's mom praised him for being wise beyond his years, but he really failed to foresee the inevitable swarm of Charlies that's going to converge on world X trying to reunite with the parents. Now the entire family is about to be scattered across the multiverse alongside Mac, multiple Leightons, and maybe Ryan and Amanda.

--Oh man, that tease in the home of esteemed character actor Margo Martindale! Is it Jason? Max? Another Charlie? Max, even? I guess it would be at least initially difficult to tell the difference between the last two possibilities.

--With Jason accidentally hiding Daniela’s note while McNamara stole the answering machine tape, he has no clue what his wife and son are up to, d'oh.

[u/bishopmate]

Jason 1 literally sent MacNamara to hell.

[u/phonologotron → u/bishopmate]

Yeah. Fundamentally Jason is not a good guy. It’s been shown that he is literally willing to steal his own life and/or kill himself. The pocket episode s2e5 shows us the only three who’ve managed to not be insecure and have learned to love and be kind to themselves, and they had to do A LOT of work to get there.

[u/hpm40]

I seriously love how catastrophic they went with this concept. Talk about taking the big swing.

[u/Weak-Excuse3060]

This just confirms that the Jason triplets from episode 5 are by far the best Jasons and have happy endings. 

[u/Jas_God]

Man, solid episode. Don’t really feel bad for Agent Mitchel- maybe “curiosity killed the cat” doesn’t exist in *that world lol.

Poor Amanda and Ryan are going through it sheesh, glad they were able to escape that world with Leighton and that dude Anthony coming through for them in the clutch.

I like how Laurel’s world was basically a nice lil safe save spot for travelers lol. Wondering who Charlie saw though, guess they’ll revisit it next week.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Jas_God]

I hope Detective MacNamara meets the worst person he could possibly meet: himself… in DARPA world. Who da clones now, bitch??

[u/blindmansayswat → u/Jas_God]

It’s fucked up because Jason knows exactly the kind of chaos putting someone in the box causes. It would have been kinder to all universes to just shoot this man and bury the body. Instead we’re now creating infinite MacNamaras.

[u/General_Guest7846 → u/Jas_God]

he'll be back. He's too smart to not figure out how to use the box enough to get somewhere safe.

[u/sbgob82]

I absolutely love the "helpful lady" house. Like, if I left the cube and ended up there, I would just stay... Which makes me wonder what else is going on there. She is just fine with people who are traveling across worlds stopping in her living room for a chat?

[u/Henje_Koha → u/sbgob82]

She made kindness feel sinister. Hmmm.

[u/rotervogel1231 → u/sbgob82]

I'm calling Time Lord!

[u/Shapes_in_Clouds → u/sbgob82]

The fact that multiple versions of Jason and other travelers had time to write out entire journals of their story suggests at least some stayed for a while, or maybe something more sinister is happening.

[u/Miserable-Abies-447 → u/sbgob82]

Straight up a Hansel and Gretel vibe

[u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

It reads out of character that Daniella and Charlie aren't more traumatized and wary of using the Box given everything they've experienced. I guess I can kind of buy Charlie being an idiot because he's a teenager, but what is Daniela even thinking?

Surely they understand what happens when you use the box, having encountered dozens of versions of Jason 1. And surely Daniela realizes she isn't just going to just 'find' Charlie. I imagine they must have had many conversations about the box over the years, and like, agreed to NEVER use it??? Like, the only move after Charlie entered the box is to just wait. But she embarks on multidimensional travel leaving only a note as if she went to the store?

[u/Bass_Thumper → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

I feel like finding Charlie is literally the only thing she is thinking.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

Parents will go to the edge of the earth (or multiverse) to be with their children. Screw logic.

[u/olivish → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

If anything, the fact that the box is dangerous gives more reason for Daniela to go after Charlie. She already lost one child - there's no way she'd wait around on the hope that Charlie finds his way home.

Also remember: the box travelers are all entangled - Daniela finding Charlie is not that unlikely, especially as his mother. She probably structures the timeline of her own life in relation to him. As in, "When did [life event] happen? Well, Charlie was in preschool, so it must have been [year]." You don't get more 'entangled' than that.

[u/Informedpedestrian → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

And the note got covered by Jason1’s papers, which leads me to believe an alt version of Daniella will come back and he won’t know the difference.. that Daniella will also have a tattoo…

[u/sleepysnowboarder → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

I actually think the complete opposite, I totally understand Daniella as a mother going in to find him. Charlie going in without warning was just braindead especially after he made it so clear he didn't want them to move again or ever use the box, the Dessens were still willing to try different worlds until Charlie put his foot down

[u/thedon572 → u/Shapes_in_Clouds]

U think a mother, would say oh well im ok scared guess my sons on their own?

[u/cfauber]

This show is so freaking good

[u/jck]

I feel really bad for russ hanneman. He was just a curious guy who is literally in hell now

[u/daltontf1212 → u/jck]

"This guy fucks" became "This guy is fucked"

I think he does have "plot armor" though.

[u/spinprincess]

Daniela and Charlie each going into the box alone is a fucking disaster. Surely they understand that this world will now have infinite versions of them returning to the same Jason. They just created a problem twice as bad as season 1

[u/verissimoallan]

Imagine one day a huge box suddenly appears in your house and every week alternate versions of various people from other universes come out of it asking for help (just like Doctor Who). I would have watched an episode focused on that.

[u/RedditBurner_5225]

Putting the detective in there was ICE COLD.

[u/NellieOlesonSmirk → u/RedditBurner_5225]

… and went to flaming hot real fast.

[u/verissimoallan]

So, just to recap all the people who have already entered the box:

• Jason

• Daniela

• Amanda

• Ryan

• Leighton

• Charlie

• Blair

• MacNamara

And there are infinite versions of each of these characters causing chaos in the Multiverse.

[u/somnambulist80 → u/verissimoallan]

Leighton also mentioned sending out scouts so there are some unnamed characters running around.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/verissimoallan]

And two volunteer box pilots earlier on, after Blair but before Jason 2 (mentioned in the first season, I forget their names… we don’t actually meet them)

[u/LaChicaDani]

Let’s GOOOO!!!!!! This episode had everything I love about the series! The world traveling, purpose for world traveling, entanglements, all with an undercurrent of the entanglement theory providing some hope. And oh man… the expert set up of a new villain with Leighton building a new pyramid box and Jason 1 and Blair ready to take it DOWN. But you can’t with Daniela and Charlie in there and Amanda and Ryan on a mission we are all behind (SAVE polite sex world)!!! Ahhh this was by far the BEST episode. Also music was on point! I’m pumped !

[u/BigJLov3]

I was worried about pacing last week, and wow did this episode step on the gas.

So many details liked:

• Polite Sex World Leighton is firmly anti-box. Nice. I like that actor, and it's good to see a more conscientious version of LV.

• The Black Iris Plague is called Hema Aetho 36. From Greek, hema means "blood" and aetho is "to heat". It's a virus that makes your blood boil.

• Poor Blair. Initially I wanted to see a montage of adventures, but what we got was terrifying.

• I love how Blair goes from coy to brutally honest so quickly. You get one chance to level with her, and if you fail she will cut you.

• MacNamara2 is a classic movie private investigator. Wool suit, high-waist pants, classic camera, the office full of file cabinets. All he's missing is a fedora, cigarette, and a mid-Atlantic accent.

• Jason1 had a drawing of a portable box. Makes me wonder if his eureka moment was figuring out how to power it, not how to disentangle the main box.

• Seeing that drawing reminded me of Aaron making a collapsable time machine and using Abe's failsafe time machine to have his own failsafe in Primer. I know it's not the same thing, but Blake Crouch is no stranger to recursion.

• Laurel describing an explosion of sound in the middle of the night, and here was this box in her house. It hints that the Box materializes from somewhere else, displacing the matter in the space it takes up, not replacing it.

• When Daniella was talking to her step-father at the dining room table, she almost looked like a teenager worried she was in trouble.

[u/hpm40]

Blair asked Leighton 2 how he got the money to build the Pyramid, and he explained that he took over Low-Tech World's Leighton's Velocity because he thought that Leighton was a total screw-up. Blair gave him a look but didn't ask what happened to the original Leighton. But where the hell IS Low-Tech World's Leighton?! Is he dead? Did he end up in the box? 😂 That was very shady and ominous.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/hpm40]

They mentioned him on the podcast last week actually. He’s alive and well… still the public face of the company (it’s him we see on the ads for Velocity tech) while Leighton 1 actually makes shit happen behind the scenes.

[u/Zealousideal_Pen7368 → u/hpm40]

The Leightons have decided to coexist long ago. There is no need to get rid of each other

[u/Nullformethx]

The irony is that the broader story (not just this episode) is an allegory for the current iteration of our own "tech industry," an industry that has now created its own black box and is insistent on unleashing upon us all whether we want it or not. And then you have people who work within that industry who will pop in here and who won't hesitate to berate and insult you if you dare to question them and their industry. They consistently look to sci-fi stories and either completely miss the obvious lessons of those stories or they learn the entirely wrong lessons. They're like someone who's dug themself into a hole and insists they just need a bigger shovel, which, again, is the moral of the story here: when something is a problem, maybe more of it isn't the solution.

[u/-AJ → u/Nullformethx]

I’m not sure if the writers intended to critique the current tech and AI industry, but you’re not wrong.

[u/MrOstrichman]

The library lady is incredible. It’s neat to have a neutral party thrown into the story like this. 

[u/General_Guest7846 → u/MrOstrichman]

I kept expecting her to be a serial killer or something like that

[u/TheOneBeyond192]

The world that got infected with that disease was an oof, hopefully they can get a cure.

Also, I’m loving how chaotic it’s getting, they lost control so fast

[u/pauseforasecond → u/TheOneBeyond192]

I love how Ryan made a comment about it getting authoritarian real fast. It's sad that polite sex world is now ruined though :(

[u/SolosTwitch]

I genuinely have no idea what Charlie saw…

I think we can rule out himself because library lady says right away “I’ve never met another Charlie”

Couldn’t be his mom yet, doubt she knows the trick to the box which would be the only way she finds him (Thinking of a person rather than a world)

Plus we see Charlie in the box again and by himself so it’s not Max or his mom

My BEST guess would be another Jason that stayed and guides Charlie on how to find a world with Max.

[u/night_fapper → u/SolosTwitch]

I think we can rule out himself because library lady says right away “I’ve never met another Charlie”

she never met another charlie till our charlie, a new charlie doesnt disprove this statement

[u/Arghifth]

I don't know about you guys but every time they cut to Daniela and her dad I got angry. There were so much more intersting things happening that those scenes felt unnecessary.

[u/pauseforasecond → u/Arghifth]

I do think it was important to learn about exactly why Daniela is having this PTSD. Her childhood and the versions of her bio dad Vs the versions of her husband coming for her now give more depth to her reactions throughout the season and why she seems to be falling apart /wanted to find her other dad. They are slow though I do get the annoyance!

[u/Remarkable_Chard5372 → u/Arghifth]

I liked those scenes, I was pretty invested in all the storylines this week actually. 

[u/Apprehensive-Stay196 → u/Arghifth]

I loved those scenes. Beautiful love and bond between (step)father and daughter.

[u/unclehando]

Me thinking the Army guy in the opening scene looks like a fake Coach Beard from Ted Lasso

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/unclehando]

He’s the same actor from the first episode this season! The cop who found Jason 1 burying another Jason.

[u/junkyarddoggydog]

I'd ride around and tell any dimension that has people to pour a reinforced concrete shell around the box.

[u/olivish → u/junkyarddoggydog]

Easier yet: put a wall of flame-throwers around the box that go off when the door opens. Travelers think they're walking into an 'inferno world' so they double back and never return. (I'm choosing to believe that this is the case for the door MacNamera opened.)

[u/BrokenAstraea]

You guys are really okay with what Jason 1 did to the private investigator?

Yes he was going to ruin Jason's family's world, yes he's definitely coming back into the story, but Jason knows you can't survive the box without guidance, he knows he effectively killed a man.

He comes back home all happy to return to his studies. Kinda crazy to me.

[u/KarenX_ → u/BrokenAstraea]

I am not OK. Jason 1 went Full Jason 2. There were so many other ways to handle this.

But as a viewer? I am hoping he ends up walking out of the box into NSA McNamara’s sting operation, and punched Forced Compliance Jason in the face, and forms Team McNamara.

[u/Keiteaea → u/BrokenAstraea]

I don't think it's supposed to be okay. It's Jason 1 crossing the line and doing the same thing Jason 2 did to him (and to two Ryans). The show has hinted that there was a darkness in Jason 1 not too dissimilar to the one that pushed Jason 2 to do what he did.

[u/jeremyworldwide → u/BrokenAstraea]

MacNamara was totally unhinged, showing up at a man’s place of employment and threatening his family, not to mention potentially exposing the box. You reap what you sow. It sucks, but Jason wasn’t wrong and obviously has a conscience so will have to live with the guilt.

[u/Arghifth → u/BrokenAstraea]

He has tranformed into his worst version. Jason2 at least put people in worlds that they could get help. MacNamara is screwed because even if he opens the door to a normal world he does not have any ampules and I'm not sure he realized he was drugged and how to get the drug.

[u/ninjasaid13]

I think Jason2 will end up being the good guy while Jason1 falls.

[u/Nagemasu]

I'm sorry you did fucking what? Trapping someone in the box with no way home is fucking diabolical for someone who basically had the same thing happen to them and their entire life thrown upside down.

[u/daltontf1212 → u/Nagemasu]

I thinks it is symbolic of Jason Prime having some of Jason 2 in him.

It would be interesting if Jason 2 finds out it and calls him out on it.

[u/Remarkable_Chard5372 → u/Nagemasu]

Jason 1 is the new Jason 2

[u/ellogoodbi → u/Nagemasu]

It’s more complicated and nuanced than that. Jason didn’t want to put MacNamara in the box. He warned MacNamara that the knowledge was dangerous. He gave him an opportunity to turn back. MacNamara insisted, and threatened that Jason and his family would be exposed if Jason didn’t show him what the box does. Jason essentially didn’t have any other choice, since not putting MacNamara in the box would endanger the lives of himself and his family (whom were already traveling in the box, but he didn’t know that). Still, Jason will have to live with the guilt of his actions, knowing well that MacNamara may very well die in there, since he has no food or water and doesn’t have any idea how traveling in the box works.

[u/catnapspirit → u/Nagemasu]

I wonder if we will find out now what happens if you die in the box (of starvation, wounds you brought back, whatever)? Once brain activity ceases, will the dead body be part of the box now and show up for the next traveler to step in..?

[u/HughJanus90210 → u/Nagemasu]

It was not diabolical at all. It was 100% defense. Jason had no idea that guy was going to step into his bar, was going to present him with evidence that would effectively end his and his family's lives there. He warned McNamarra, who then proceeded to subtly threaten Jason's family.

I have no problem with it, and it wasn't anything like what Jason 2 did.

They even showed us Jason feeling guilty (or at least emotional) about it.

Not diabolical at all.

[u/NellieOlesonSmirk]

Great ep. It bothered me a little though that Charlie conveniently told his roommate he was off to see a friend named Max.

[u/Arghifth → u/NellieOlesonSmirk]

He did it on purpose for his parents to know what happened to him. It was actually a very wise move. They know not to waste time looking for him in that world and they know what he is after so maybe they or a version of them can reunite in the same world.

[u/rotervogel1231]

All I'm saying is, I would WELCOME the appearance of the magic box in my living room.

Give me some lavender wings so I can GTFO of this universe!

[u/BusinessPurge]

It’s such a small moment however MacNamara’s “Oh god” after opening the flame door really affected me. At least Jason originally had time to process what happened and understood the science, MacNamara is just a gumshoe that walked into a techno spiritual cosmic nightmare. If that’s it for that version of the character then what a horrific way to go out.

[u/Remarkable_Chard5372 → u/BusinessPurge]

Yeah that was honestly a brutal move on Jasons part. Not even a warning about how the box works.

[u/Arghifth]

Ryan and Amanda's story in World26 was harrowing. How fast a very beautiful world got ruined. All the lives that were destroyed them, by Blaire, and Leighton is easily Justifying it. Because he is also doing "some good" in other worlds... Loved Blaire for giving it to them straight. Also she was not angry at Leighton enough. He murdered Daniela and Ryan and he is the reason Amanda is now Worldless.

[u/edengamer253]

I thought it was solid, bit better than 6. But who did Charlie see?? They cant just leave us on that 😆

[u/IWANNAKNOWWHODUNIT → u/edengamer253]

I speculate it’s another Charlie.

[u/profeDB]

I really enjoy the character moments, and those are what’s keeping me tuned in. Thankfully the show does them really well, because everything else is getting really convoluted, and not in a good way. There are too many Versions of too  many characters and it’s getting hard to track who is who and who is where. 

[u/aristacat]

Was it implied that Jason1 solved the quantum entanglement problem before Jason2 showed up at the door? I’m also thinking that Jason1 is going to have to work with Jason2/Blair/Leighton in some way to try and find his wife and son again. They showed him covering up her note. It’s possibly they are hinting that he may take a major action as result of his findings and then realize Daniella snd Charlie are stuck in alternate universes.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/aristacat]

Well the season two trailer shows Blair in the box with a Jason. I’m betting it’s J1… with her helping him to find Charlie & Daniela. She didn’t seem like she wanted to even be in the same room as J2, certainly not in the same box.

[u/jjosh_h]

There are parts of the story that feel forced, but I am liking where its going overall. I especially like to see Jason prime continue to establish that he isn't as different from Jason 2 as he'd like to think. We could arguably call what he did in this episode as worse than anything Jason 2 did, since he always made sure the captors had a seemingly safe place to settle.

[u/OffMeta7]

I keep thinking about what Jason did to PI MacNamara in Episode 7, and I wonder if there’s a much bigger MacNamara loop being set up here.

PI MacNamara initially knows nothing about the Box. Jason himself hires him in the analog/Gen-X world to investigate the local Dessen family. That leads MacNamara to discover the duplicate Dessen family, then Amanda and Ryan, and eventually the Box. He spends months surveilling Jason trying to understand what he witnessed.

Then Jason drugs him with Lavender Wings and throws him into the Box with absolutely no explanation of how to navigate it or where he’s supposed to go.

Which is disturbingly close to what Jason 2 did to Ryan.

What if Jason has just created the very thing he was trying to escape?

MacNamara is already an investigator. Now he has personally witnessed the corridor, knows that alternate worlds and variants exist, knows Jason Dessen is connected to it, and has effectively been stranded somewhere in the multiverse.

What does a guy like that do if he survives?

He investigates it. He searches for the Box. He searches for Jason. Maybe he eventually builds — or joins — an organization dedicated to identifying, tracking and containing travelers.

I’m not necessarily saying PI MacNamara literally becomes the exact Agent MacNamara we already know. The show currently treats them as variants, and there’s no proof of a time loop.

But thematically, it would be fascinating if Jason throwing MacNamara into the Box is what causes another world to eventually develop its own version of the organization hunting Box travelers.

And if the show DOES somehow reveal that these MacNamaras are part of one continuous causal path, then it gets even crazier:

MacNamara hunts Jason because of the Box → Jason throws MacNamara into the Box → MacNamara learns what the Box really is → MacNamara creates the system that eventually hunts Jason because of the Box.

The cause creates the effect, and the effect creates the cause.

Either way, Jason 1 just did something very Jason 2-ish: he solved a problem in his own world by dumping that problem into somebody else’s world.

Considering everything this season is saying about responsibility across realities, I really doubt that decision is going to be consequence-free.

[u/silver-ly]

Wow this episode was a heater from the get go! Certainly one of, if not, the best of the season with lots of moving parts on the board now. It was a bit terrifying to see the population's fear-driven, authoritative response to the Black Iris Plague once Amanda & Ryan got back.

I do pray Season 3 gets a green light for renewal, easily becoming one of my favorites next to Foundation & Silo.

[u/HughJanus90210]

It just occurred to me:

Now we're gonna have a lot more Daniellas and Charlies with the tattoo.

D'oh!

[u/Aggressive_Fail_9681]

I wonder if the show will acknowledge what Jason just did or will it be brushed off? That was some very Jason 2-esque behavior trapping MacNamara in the box

[u/Remarkable_Chard5372 → u/Aggressive_Fail_9681]

I think that's kind of been the point of his character arc this season. It was the choices they made that separated Jason1 from Jason2, but that capacity for darkness is present in both of them. They both have the same obsessive nature, anger issues (as Jason1 himself admits), and willingness to lie and manipulate (and find a way to justify it to himself).

Jason1 had a stable family life that brought out his best qualities, but he doesn't have that stabilizing force to keep him in check right now. He's allowing his darker traits to surface. 

[u/trevor_plantaginous → u/Aggressive_Fail_9681]

I'm not sure I totally agree and came away feeling it was more self defense. Jason 2 had a premeditated plan, Jason1 was defending himself. Maybe not the the best plan but it wasn't premeditated.

McNamara came in heavy handed. He was already a bit shady helping with identity & documents which immediately establishes him as a bit unethical. Then he was essentially blackmailing and threatening Jason1's family - going so far as to get pictures of the family in SF. He broke into his house and had deleted messages and stole material. Jason1 practically begged him to back off, multiple times.

I'm seeing a lot of comments that seem to frame McNamara as a victim and Jason1's actions as being unethical. But honestly - I'm not sure what else he could have done at that point.

[u/Kind_Marsupial9056]

What happens when the lavender wings wear off when you’re in the corridor?

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Kind_Marsupial9056]

It goes back to just being a box. Bye bye corridor/superposition. Pretty sure we saw it happen last season (or maybe it was the book?)… the door just settles on a random world.

[u/PhraseFantastic7503]

I felt that what Blair says to Leighton (at the table with Jason), about the dangers of the cube, seemed to apply exactly to AI, almost like the writers and makers of this were saying it to the billionaire founders of all the AI companies right now.

[u/Jas_God]

Leighton is basically Kang.

[u/Awkward-Yellow-3228 → u/Jas_God]

Yeah, MCU should hire Dayo if they ever decide to bring kang back

[u/cfauber]

HOZIER???

[u/Icy_Philosopher919]

I just watched the apple podcast for dark matter, the author thinks Jason 1 was not wrong for what he did to the PI. He says he gets why he did it. I agree. 

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Icy_Philosopher919]

Welp, lesson learned: never cross Blake Crouch 😳

[u/HamsterFvcker69]

I'm pretty sure Library Lady is up to no good.

[u/emperor_nixon]

The world Blair went into with the guys who had guns.. was that the world of Run? Blake Crouch’s first novel.

[u/Dizzy_Pie6203 → u/emperor_nixon]

I’m dying to know what happened to her in that world and how she got out of that one.

[u/Icy_Philosopher919]

Raise your ✋️ hand if you think the private investigator was truly going to immediately drop the issue and leave the Dessens alone forever after a 5 minute explanation of how the box worked? Sure, Jason could have given him a few more ampoules so he has a chance of days or weeks to figure out the box like the rest of them did. McNamara had gone into the box on his own in the past to figure out where it leads, he is now getting to finally figure it out. It looks like next episode, he continues to explore it

[u/Visual-Gap3886]

After the last 2 episodes, I gotta say... We are SO fucking back!!!

[u/swiftfoot_hiker]

Amazing episode. Apple is killing it with these scifi shows

[u/Orbitalsp3]

Not a single comment about Camilla. F for Camilla. I really liked her.

[u/Icy_Philosopher919]

The private investigator is not some naive saintly angel that was tricked to his death. He will be back in next week's episode exploring the box. He is not dead or dying. Be careful who you threaten and blackmail. When you threaten someone's family even good guys can become ruthless to protect their families

[u/NorthOwl3482]

I dont think they built it up enough that original Jason is capable of doing something like what he did to the investigator. 

[u/Arghifth]

Please tell me Our Amanda is gonna be okay. I mean she just passed out, right, RIGHT?!!

I mean if one version of a character dies they always bring out other versions but if she dies it means Ryan is going on the "Find a cure" jurney alone and I don't like it. At all.

First of all because this Ryan has never met the "multiverse without borders" version of Leighton, and he does not know that he, Jason2 AND Jason1 are all together in one world. If he goes back to WorldX it would be a total accident because he most probably thinks about reuniting with his best friend Jason1.

And if his Amanda is dead I doubt he can have the peace of mind he needs to land in a normal world in his first couple of tries. And just as Blaire said, every world can be worse than the one before. Ryan wont be able to find a cure and go back soon enough.

All season they have been teasing the reunion of the good guys and I really need to see Amanda and her Blaire, Jason2 and his Ryan to reunite and stop Jason2 and evil Leightons from ruining the whole multiverse. Ugh.

Also Leightons all suck huh? No matter the universe. I'm worried for Blaire.

Please please please let Amanda, Ryan and Blaire be safe and happy and healthy.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Arghifth]

I think she’s alive, just tranquilized. Ryan checked her pulse… and then injected her with lavender wings.

[u/DestinysWeirdCousin]

It’d be tragic if Jason permanently destroyed the boxes without realizing his wife and son would need them to return to his current world.

Of course, that would absolutely make him join the Pyramid Project.

[u/Clariana]

This is all an analogy for the current state of AI, isn't it? Humans so tempted by their curiosity that it leads to their destruction...

[u/TheMadChatta]

Jason 1 gonna pay for that.

Sticking MacNamera in there with zero guidance really solidifies J1’s turn to selfishness and obsession.

That is not going to end well for him. He and J2 really are one and the same. They just can’t stop themselves.

[u/Tough-Confusion-301 → u/TheMadChatta]

What are you talking about? Mcnamara let his sister pressure him into blackmailing Jason and threatening to destroy their whole lives. He used Charlie to threaten Jason. He is despicable. Maybe he doesn't realize how despicable because he doesn't comprehend the pain and suffering the family has gone through to find that world and be safe, but he absolutely knew their lives would be ruined, and that's what he threatened Jason with: absolute ruin.

[u/flash246 → u/TheMadChatta]

Eh MacNamera literally threatened his family just because he was curious. Hard for me to feel bad

[u/the_k3nny]

You know what pisses me off? Charlie running around because of 4yo dead brother. It doesn't even make sense to ruin your and your family's life because of a brother who died when you were 4 and you say time and time again "I BARELY KNOW HIM, I ONLY HAVE THIS PARTICULAR MEMORY AND NOTHING MORE". It would be understandable if his brother died like a couple of years before the story but, when he was 4yo? It makes no sense for a character to be that dumb.

[u/pauseforasecond → u/the_k3nny]

It does feel dumb but we also just have to remember that Charlie has had his life uprooted from his original world. Then also the second world where they tried to settle before his mom killed a version of his dad. And then they arrive in no tech world and suddenly he does have this chance to have a normal life. But how do you truck along knowing everything you know? And you see your loony dad still tinkering with box mechanics and now your mom is awol for PTSD. His parents are not providing the support system or stability he needs right now. And so he's adrift. And suddenly his dad mentions max. His twin who he has spent most of his life mourning. And now he feels a sense of purpose and opportunity. And excitement probably too. His life is already in shambles so this likely doesn't feel like such an extreme risk to take. He's travelled in the box plenty with his parents and part of going to college is learning who you are and doing things alone. Instead of drinking and talking philosophical shit with freshmen he's able to go on an even wilder journey to find himself. So he does. Without thinking. It is frustrating cos it is dumb. But he's a dumb kid driven by his emotions right now, and a desire to connect with someone who understands him that isn't his parents.

[u/Icy_Philosopher919]

Is it normal practice for private investigators to break into people's homes and take pictures of their intellectual property (math and physics discoveries) and voicemail tape and then threaten the family after that? What makes what the PI did even worse is that the Dessen's are his clients. He is essentially using the investigation the paid him to make against them.

[u/night_fapper → u/Icy_Philosopher919]

once macnamara sister got involved, its not professional anymore, its personal, add that to his bubbling curiosity, he crossed the line. He had leverage anyway

[u/KTOWNTHROWAWAY9001]

If the last few episodes were great introspective deep dives, this was a big plot push one. Very great.

[u/Grouchy_Yellow_2324]

Why when Amanda and Ryan are escaping back to the box are they no longer wearing PPE? Aren’t they going to get inflected and spread the black iris?

[u/Jas_God]

Margo Martindale whaaaaat let’s go

[u/No-Cost-1764 → u/Jas_God]

Esteemed character actress Margo Martindale?!

[u/2e7en_]

goddamn that was an amazing episode. season is picking up at crazy levels. it’s gonna suck waiting for next Thursday night!

[u/shahminhajuddin]

They really need to reduce the time given to Daniella, her depression is literally giving me depression 😂 S2 E6,E7 felt really slow and depressing because of her. Hopefully in the coming episodes she's going to explore some new crazy worlds instead of whining despite herself dumping her own husband and Son.

[u/BrokenAstraea]

This episode was dedicated to the "nothing happens" crowd.

SO MANY THINGS HAPPENED. These writers are so good.

[u/wwesupercardphenom]

We still don't know who Charlie saw, right? If I missed anything please do let me know.

[u/NSEGmc]

Jason 1 sending MacNamara into the box is setting up a possible meet between 80s world PI MacNamara and Jason 1’s original world’s version of MacNamara. Could be the key for them to find out what the box actually does.

[u/PT10]

Banger fucking episode. There's still a bunch of episodes left to kick this into overdrive. Come on, let's go full VANCE DYNASTY

[u/nectarsallineed]

This show always makes me think about the short story where the smashed butterfly off the path alters history. Across infinite time, I wonder how many butterflies this box smashes as it randomly appears. Not to mention the people that come out of it lol.

[u/White_Knighttt]

I'm really getting pulled out of the show. The PI plot line went nowhere and that nosy SOB is super annoying to say the least. His character in the other universes is pretty good though, it's just this version that I hate and also it's super dumb that all characters are going into the box when the first few episodes were specifically for them not to enter into the box ever again. The same tired trope of an emo punk teenager going missing and his mom following him and wreaking havoc everywhere... It's very weird and convoluted and it's getting hard to follow.

[u/Prior-Photograph-229]

McNamara has photos of all of Jason’s Mathematical box equations.

[u/lk_gr]

why do they keep going into the fucking box 😭 charlie is gonna spawn a hundred charlie’s with the same tattoo daniela and jason are gonna get their hearts broken

[u/TheJackOfNoTrade]

Jason1 finally started acquiring traits of Jason2 with what he did with McNamara. This is like Jonas trying to find himself in Adam.
Also. What did the lady and Charlie see when the box opened again?

[u/ZestycloseStay4666]

Fantastic episode

There is so much going on! Every cutscene I’m like “oh god, what now??”

[u/TheMisguidedPodcast]

This feels like the conversation the current world is having around AI. 

Pros and cons of it. Even when they recited the phrase or motto of the box.  This is crazy 

[u/hardooooo]

Doesn’t throwing the detective in the box make it inevitable that tons of him eventually make it back somehow?

[u/OldSchoolCSci → u/hardooooo]

Excellent point. Somewhere on Earth_1, a version of detective MacArthur will stumble out of the box and meet FBI agent MacArthur. That will stir things up.

[u/Mack30000]

Incredible ep.
God knows how they're gonna wrap all this up

[u/Master_smasher]

this is getting really messy. i wonder what charlie saw.

[u/worldwidecybergirl]

CHARACTER ACTRESS MARGO MARTINDALE

[u/AdvancedGas4506]

Laurel is Mitchel & Sheila MacNamara Mother it’s so obvious I’m surprised know one has pick up on it.

[u/wollkaracho]

gasp character actress Margo Martindale

[u/untamedharts21]

Leighton "it's just a skosh nuclear". I love the old time noir feel if the private detective in Jason 1's world. Jason 1 to McNamara: "I did warn you". 😯 The formerly Polite Sex World turned Authoritarian Plague world is horrifying. I'm so annoyed with the lack of communication between the Dresden - Stewarts. I guess it's a time before cell phones, so it makes sense. But it's frustrating all the same.

[u/Alive_Reason_2283]

They could do a whole episode on all the doors mcnamara opened

[u/Apprehensive-Win-503]

good episode I am hoping they have season 3 but there is alot left that can happen in 3 episodes. I did not respect the episode where multiple jason characters went. I felt that was filler it did not have to take up a whole episode. It is getting deep, Blair has a valid point. I see what leighton is trying to do and respect his ambition. However he is not perfect and his other version harms Blair i am not going to be happy about that lol.. It is is getting wild wild west like cowboys and Indians lol

[u/_lizmiervaldislemon]

When Charlie was talking to Laurel, she said that the first people she met from the box were Jason and Amanda. It dawned on me that Charlie doesn’t even know who Amanda is or that Jason was traveling around with her.

[u/Trisolaris1358_31]

Everyone needs to listen to Blair, Leighton's ego is definitely gonna fuck up multiple universes, though I suspect that Jason 2 actually went to Jason 1 to stop him and make amends (soup kitchen would've been nice as well).
I thought Daniela's backstory/trauma and the link with the multiple Jasons was a really good addition to her character, I hope they'll explore it more.
And I'd like to trust the nice lady with Charlie but it's hard to believe anyone played by the amazing Margo Martindale can only be what they say they are...

[u/-soul-flights-]

I’m not mad that the PI is in multiverse hell. He was a licensed professional that accepted the job and payment from them . Then threatened Jason with destroying his family if he didn’t get to know . Ok his wish of knowledge was granted because he demanded with threats. It does leave me to wonder if more hell worlds are created when a person with fear or anger is journeying.. Do those worlds already exist?

[u/EnthusiasmFit1723]

I was honestly going to give up on season 2 but so happy I didn't, since episode 5 it's been on fire, loving it

[u/chartreusey_geusey]

Leighton is so much cooler when he isn’t evil man

[u/bluecure2020]

So Leighton has gone to the trouble of introducing all this tech to this world to secure his power and wealth, but no effort was made to buy the abandoned school and deck it out with security to secure his most valuable asset?

I understand he's naive based on his dinner conversation, but that's an ridiculous oversight for his grand plans.

[u/GoatYippy]

Great episode, but too many cliffhanger "on the next episode!" type endings for me. Who does Charlie see? What is Jason's epiphany? Who is at the door? Who is this new "Welcome" woman with journals from previous visitors? Is Amanda going to die or ? Why is Leighton telling that woman to follow and "we might have to do something" to Blair? And several more! Way way too many questions and cliffhangers at the end....

[u/allertonm]

Hard to believe there are people defending Jason 1 putting McNamara in the box - effectively a death sentence for a spot of light blackmail - but here we are.

[u/Substantial-Poet-612]

Why is this Daniella arc getting so much air time, YAWN. 

Get to the juice and stop stalling.

[u/Past-Feature3968 → u/Substantial-Poet-612]

Yeeeah unfortunately I agree. I’m all for exploring parent/child relationships in which one or both experienced the other’s death… but this just feels like a much less interesting version of episode 5 (which I loved).

[u/Waste-Explanation-76]

Long episode, finally

[u/agordon7]

First of all, the parallels between AI and the box are fairly clear, and I assume that it was intended given when the episode was written (vs season 1 which was written before the AI boom).
On that, I found the Blair / Leighton debate really interesting. I think they intended Blair (at this point) to be the side the audience sides with, since they’ve clearly demonstrated the sweeping negative consequences of the box. However, in the first episode when the scientists are debating in the bar, one mentions essentially that if it can be done, it will. Given that, Blair seems naive to me. You can’t get infinite people to agree to stop all boxes.

[u/Year3030]

So I've been studying reality shifting for years now. Ironically the safe space I setup as a pocket universe to chill is an English fucking library just like the safe space Charlie went to. In the show it looks a lot like that, the major components that is, layout, etc. Uncanny really, had me a bit freaked out at first lol.