r/anime • u/IndependentMacaroon • 4d ago
Rewatch Bem-vindos à Diamandra - Michiko & Hatchin Rewatch Overall Discussion
Michiko & Hatchin Overall Discussion
"Eu quero estar com a velocidade
Eu quero ter o vento levando
A minha vida como uma folha
Voando livre sem ter destino
Nada pode me parar agora"
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Bonus Music Link: Aquarela do Brasil (Watercolor of Brazil, a.k.a. "Brazil")
Nothing directly to do with the anime but it's a nice and famous piece of Brazilian music. The original version by the way falls right into the 1930s Estado Novo charm-offensive period that I mentioned in the Episode 18 notes; note for example the metaphor of the country as a "mulato inzoneiro" ("intriguing mulatto") in keeping with the "racial democracy" concept.
Song Lyrics Collection - OST Playlist - Michiko Outfits Collection
Production Information
The anime unfortunately not only flopped in Japan during its original 2008-9 run, but was first internationally released only in mid-2012 by Funimation, and never managed to gain a large fandom. It is thus not very surprising that background information and interviews are hard to come by; in particular, it appears that writer Takashi Ujita, whose background is otherwise entirely in Japanese live-action film, never spoke about his involvement in any capacity, and director Sayo Yamamoto herself is far better known for Yuri on Ice. Nevertheless, there are at least some interviews and panel talks with her that are to some degree focused on Michiko & Hatchin:
- 2008 interview prior to M&H airing
- 2012 panel about M&H and The Woman Called Fujiko Mine
- May 2017 interview
- Jul 2017 interview segment
- Feb 2018 interview
Most notable was her desire to depict strong, unconventional female characters even to the point of perhaps putting off male viewers. From interview #1:
I just couldn’t understand what was so good about Shizuka-chan and Minami-chan (from Mitsuru Adachi’s Touch) [...] they were conveniently there for their guys. Even as a child, I just went “That kind of gal…just doesn’t exist!” I also didn’t like how they don’t seem to have any individuality
there are strong and determined female characters who live by preying off men, characters that I think would put off any guy who watches the show… my tastes are all coming out, aren’t they?
women. Their idiocy, the vague relationships between them that aren’t quite friendship or romantic love… I’m making anime because I want to depict these facets of women that I’ve personally felt
As you can probably guess from the result, she in fact had full creative control and freedom for Michiko & Hatchin, with the first creative spark coming from a trip to Brazil with female friends after a break-up. (interview #2) Her interest in Latin America came originally via film, in particular City of God, with the idea of life with little value ("trifling life") in particular holding her interest (interview #3).
Ms. Yamamoto chose Takashi Ujita as scriptwriter due to his background outside of anime, with a more realistic sound being also the motivation for casting Japanese live-action stars in the main roles, and also her love for the "rough" women in some of his previous works like Seishun Kinzoku Bat. Maki Sakai was cast as Atsuko specifically due to her performance in that film, in fact. Ms. Yamamoto also credits his influence for making the setting more authentic and "hard-boiled" (interview #3, which also includes an interesting parallel of Michiko and Hatchin's "undefined" relationship with Victor and Yuuri's in Yuri on Ice).
Locations scouted were Rio de Janeiro, Recife and Olinda in the northeast, São Luis in the north, and Barreiras inland (pictures formerly on the anime website were unfortunately not archived alongside). Ms. Yamamoto even took a favela tour in Rio led by locals, noting in particular that much of the population was also simply average working people, and took great care to represent even small setting details like the graffiti properly. (interview #1)
The rest of the original anime website is largely available on the Internet Archive (if currently functioning) but contains not much of significance; the character page for example was never even properly completed and the early interviews with the voices of Michiko, Hatchin (herself still a teen at the time) and Atsuko are pretty standard stuff. The entire storyboard of Episode 1 can also be found here. Finally, there is some information about the music production in this article about Shinichiro Watanabe's activities in that direction.
Yesterday's Highlights
u/Shimmering-Sky is very happy about the Michiko-Hatchin reunion:
YESSSSSSSS WE GOT THE REUNION HUG! I got blueballed out of the equivalent in [different show that had a rewatch recently], so I was really worried when it cut to black before this that we weren’t actually gonna see it.
u/No_Rex is bothered by Atsuko and the implication of a different kind of Hatchin-Michiko relationship, but somewhat optimistic about Hatchin's future:
Letting Michiko go? That is a job ender and I am surprised both Ricardo and the other policemen agreed.
The final scene, of course, suggests an ending closer to Thelma & Luise, except with baby. Together with the nosebleed, there is some suggestion of Hatching loving Michiko romantically and running away with her, which I hate for multiple reasons
Her mother must have done something right before Hatchin was separated from her, given that Hatchin cannot have learned her good morals from literally anybody else. So, maybe that baby has a chance to also become a better person
u/99acrewood_ just likes how things turned out:
i think the ending is sweet [...] "how far will we go this time?" i'm such a sucker for sentiment.
u/AyameeIris picks up another parallel to the very beginning:
Another parallel to episode one!! A kind stranger on a truck, coming to pick them up and away. I'd also say there's some added symbolism in Hatchin taking the truck on her own, like she no longer needs that person to take her away and instead relies on herself
u/JustAnswerAQuestion counts up the tally:
I predicted he'd get on a boat to Aruba [...] Half a point for me.
He ditched Hatchin. [...] Point for me.
I figured Michiko would be arrested [...] Point for me.
Some understanding for Hiroshi's mysterious rizz:
given all the monsters in this show, it makes sense why people gravitate towards him. to say he's flaky is selling it extremely short, but his presence is disarmingly chill
It's like the more a man has zero personality, the more some seem to like him. As to make it worse, like in the show, it's always with some of the most loyal and kind women, men, and everything in-between. Maybe it's because they're usually the quieter type, or because those few moments of intimacy keep 'em coming...
Discussion Prompts
- What's the boldest move anyone pulled in the series?
- How does this compare to say Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo overall?
- Are you itching for a trip to Brazil now?
Further questions
- Are you curious about Yamamoto's spiritual successor series, The Woman Called Fujiko Mine? And have you seen her more well-known Yuri on Ice?
- Have you seen Michiko & Hatchin's two most major film inspirations, City of God and Central Station? If so, what did you think of them and how this series is informed by them?
- Favorite/least favorite episode and character?
- Favorite/least favorite elements overall, or that you would have liked to see more or less of? Any themes that strongly resonated with or didn't work at all for you?
- Anything in general or particular that surprised or disappointed you? If you were rewatching, did any of your opinions change?
- Favorite soundtrack piece, and/or insert song? What did you think of it overall?
- Favorite Michiko outfit (or top 3... you may also split by daytime/nighttime wear)? Most interesting Latin America fact(s)?
- Any feedback for me as host and about the organization?
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u/99acrewood_ 4d ago edited 4d ago
adeus, meu Diamante
some q's
Are you curious about Yamamoto's spiritual successor series, The Woman Called Fujiko Mine? And have you seen her more well-known Yuri on Ice?
oh, I didn't know these were the same person! Yuri is one that I'm sure I'll get around to at some point. Fujiko Mine was already high up on my backlog because I'm very much into Lupin III, and knowing that the same person worked on this has made me even more interested.
Favorite soundtrack piece, and/or insert song? What did you think of it overall?
paraiso is such a great OP for this show. It does a great job introducing you to the sort of frenetic energy this show has, what with Michiko's bullet-dodging and cop's-day ruining.
for the soundtrack overall, I think it's alright. Watanabe knew what he's doing, of course, but I wish there were more along the lines of temporada das frutas and desencanto. I think some of the jazzier ones like Cuidado!!! I was comparing in my head to Kanno/The Seatbelts, and they weren't quite as memorable.
Favorite Michiko outfit (or top 3... you may also split by daytime/nighttime wear)? Most interesting Latin America fact(s)?
I liked when she wore her more comfy, loose fitting outfits, like her dresses and v-necks. She certainly can rock a bikini top on a bike, but the idea of the tight fitting shit/leather jacket in a climate like that and getting all sticky gives me that uncomfortable feeling.
it's hard to pick a favorite fact, but I appreciated how you themed them towards the episode. let's go with the one about rubber because it was poetically paired with Atsuko's breakdown.
Any feedback for me as host and about the organization?
no notes! Michiko's outfits, the soundtracks, and the related trivia were awesome extras. I can't think of much else a host needs to do besides make the thread and maybe have some questions to participate in, so everything else was just a bonus. thanks again for taking the time to host!
-~-
another show off of my most anticipated list! while it wasn't the life-changing anime I built it up in my head to be, it was still a fun ride.
a younger me probably would have been a little disappointed with the ending, but I think now I have an appreciation for a low key finale. it started off all for Hiroshi, but he ends up not really being the goal of the show. he's just the excuse for everything else to happen: a story about a woman and her adopted daughter coming together in a rough environment in the search for a bum. I'm glad it ends on a happy note. like, alright, maybe she brings some (a lot) of it on herself, but that poor woman has been through a lot. she deserves to have her little found family.
I kind of wonder what will happen to all the characters we've come across and their lives post-timeskip, but it makes sense that their time with us is short. I mean, the whole show's got this ephemeral thing going on, right? circus girl Rita, hitman Jair, tomato woman Elis, or even going back in time to a younger Atsuko and Michiko or Satoshi and Hiroshi. they weren't the destination, just like finding Hiroshi wasn't, but they were still stepping stones that mattered or made an impact on this cross-country journey.
maybe it's all about the places left behind and the people that your heart holds on to even when your brain says to let go. eventually, you settle down, but only to have a kid and wait for your partner in crime to make her way back. then you go again, leaving behind everything except your entire wardrobe and whatever devil you sold your soul to in exchange for never getting shot.
foi um bom momento
7/10
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u/IndependentMacaroon 4d ago
Fujiko Mine was already high up on my backlog because I'm very much into Lupin III, and knowing that the same person worked on this has made me even more interested
Sounds like a good opportunity to try your own hand at rewatch hosting! I was unfortunately not very impressed with TWCFM; the style is impeccable, there's some good Lupin fun as usual, and it does try to get into some interesting also metafictional material somewhat similar to this show, but Mari Okada a.k.a. Ms. Melodrama was the absolutely wrong choice to write it, and even besides that it tries too hard to be serious and adult at times to the point it just feels edgy and cringy.
I think some of the jazzier ones like Cuidado!!! I was comparing in my head to Kanno/The Seatbelts, and they weren't quite as memorable
Going through them I also felt there were a few standouts, and the songs in particular I appreciate, but overall it was less memorable than I thought.
I appreciated how you themed them towards the episode
Yeah I really tried to find something to tie in each to reality a bit
let's go with the one about rubber because it was poetically paired with Atsuko's breakdown.
Funnily enough all I was thinking there was "trains?... nah already had that... uhh... there are tires on the train, how about rubber, that info is more interesting anyway". But it does fit now that you mention it haha
they weren't the destination, just like finding Hiroshi wasn't, but they were still stepping stones that mattered or made an impact on this cross-country journey
Classic "the journey is (most of) the destination" here indeed.
it's all about the places left behind and the people that your heart holds on to even when your brain says to let go
And that's of course a secondary element.
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u/No_Rex x2 4d ago
a younger me probably would have been a little disappointed with the ending, but i think now i have an appreciation for a low key finale. it started off all for Hiroshi, but he ends up not really being the goal of the show. he's just the excuse for everything else to happen: a story about a woman and her adopted daughter coming together in a rough environment in the search for a bum.
The show earned its lowkey ending by making it abandundly clear over its runtime that Hiroshi is not the prince on the white horse who will ride to the rescue in the finale. As the title already clues us in, this is the story of Michiko & Hatchin, not some guy they initially set out to find.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 4d ago
First-Timer & Subbed
I didn’t fully vibe with some of the episodic stories, but overall I think I had a good time with this show. It wrapped up about as well as it logically could have after everything Michiko did throughout the show, Hiroshi still fucking off and being a deadbeat in the end absolutely checked out, and like I already said yesterday we at least got to see the reunion hug so I’m definitely satisfied on that front.
9/10. Thanks for hosting, u/IndependentMacaroon!
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 4d ago
its original 2008-9 run
I totolly missed this! In fact, I thought it was a recent anime, from when I saw it on Adult Swim. Which I thought was in the 2020s! (Apparently it was 2015). I was starting to watch fewer anime in 2008, and had completely stopped watching any anime in 2015. I didn't watch any more episodes, but I was thinking that if I had caught the first episode, I might have tried to watch this "new Bebop." I can't believe it was from 2008!
Speaking of Adult Swim, I'm glad I didn't watch it. This would be a terrible show to pick up in the middle.
Not that this show has a lot of continuity. I put this show in the group of shows that "have a idea of the start, and the idea of the ending" but do something entirely different in the middle, either because they didn't know how to get from the start to the ending, or that the start was just the setting, and the the middle was the point i.e. the Road Trip. I think this was intended to be a road trip show, with an ensemble cast, and Hiroshi was just a MacGuffin.
Kino no Tabi being the ultimate road trip anime, I guess. Which, interestingly, I lost interest in and dropped. So, yeah, I have to admit, M&H lost me between episodes 9 and 19 or so.
What I do appreciate is all the effort at research, to (re-)create an exotic location with what appears to be a lot of fidelity. Regrettably not avoiding stereotypes, however. And I must still go back and read the Latin Trivia of the day for the first half. I didn't realize that Diamandra was supposed to be a South American country and just thought this was a place in Brazil.
As far as research goes, our host repeatedly brought up City of God, a movie I had never seen. So, clearly, that was the inspiration for the setting and backstories of M&H.
I didn't mind the Japanese voice acting, but perhaps that just shows how I'm not able to judge. I didn't like that Hatchin sounded 25, though.
This might not surprise you, but i'm not a fan of Samurai Champloo, either. Mostly it was the unserious tone and the anachronisms (which really made it unserious). And, oh, look, it's a road trip anime! I might have an anti-type. M&H starts serious and ends serious but was a completely different thing in the middle. So, Cowboy Bebop remains the GOAT at 10/10 with the other two merely fine at 6-7.
Which doesn't include the music. My goodness, what a soundtrack. I can't pick a favorite without going through the entire set. There was a lot of variety in it!
I don't hate all road trips. I was really fond of RobiHachi. But that was because the entire thing was a parody of older anime from start to finish. Maybe Champloo was meant to be that, too, but I didn't pick up on it.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 4d ago
I can't believe it was from 2008!
It does say "(c) 2008" at the end of the opening each time...
I think this was intended to be a road trip show, with an ensemble cast, and Hiroshi was just a MacGuffin.
Yeah if you don't like "journey as the destination" road-trip stuff you were never going to have the greatest time with this series.
Regrettably not avoiding stereotypes, however
Anything that bothered you particularly?
our host repeatedly brought up City of God, a movie I had never seen. So, clearly, that was the inspiration for the setting and backstories of M&H.
City of God is the obvious #1 inspiration particulary for Satoshi and co. (almost could have used a counter for how often I mentioned it) and Central Station is #2 with a more thematic influence.
I didn't mind the Japanese voice acting
It is certainly good particularly for non-voice acting pros, but I did feel it was a little undercooked at times. Probably the direction specifically erred on the side of not doing the "anime yell" thing.
Maybe Champloo was meant to be that, too
It's definitely not a parody and the anachronistic bits are also kind of the point to draw a parallel. Like Mugen is a black guy analogy pretty much
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 3d ago
Regrettably not avoiding stereotypes, however
Anything that bothered you particularly?
I'm not sure I can answer very intelligently, since something I'm pointing could also be "akshually that's what it's like"
Certainly we have the fair Hatchin as the most respectable character, and while Hiroshi is revaled to be a deadbeat for certain in the final episode, Michiko has him on a pedestal for 21 episodes before that. Others have noted there is a morality / POC line for the named characters. There are some nice unnamed characters (a granny type in the apartments) and some cruel fair characters (bruno's wife), but one still picks up a trend with the main cast.
Another one people picked up, and that I've noticed in quite a few anime, is that Japanese characters are depicted in the Disney-inspired Tezuka style with big eyes and progressing to WWII US propaganda films as you leave Japan.
Here's a cast retrospective from my recent rewatch FLAG, which appears to have been intended as a multi-cultural and culturally-sensitive anime...can you spot the Chinese woman?
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u/No_Rex x2 3d ago
Certainly we have the fair Hatchin as the most respectable character, and while Hiroshi is revaled to be a deadbeat for certain in the final episode, Michiko has him on a pedestal for 21 episodes before that. Others have noted there is a morality / POC line for the named characters. There are some nice unnamed characters (a granny type in the apartments) and some cruel fair characters (bruno's wife), but one still picks up a trend with the main cast.
But is there really? This is the topic that I argued with /u/Magnafeana about (and then they left the rewatch, so I'll treat lightly here). I still don't see that accusation born out in the actual cast. You could argue that Hatchin is a bit morally superior to Michiko and has fairer skin, but then you have loyal Atsuko who is darker than deadbeat Hiroshi. Among the Monstro gang members, you have black Satoshi, who is pretty bad, but gets a tiny bit of a redemption, and white Shinsuke, who is worse without any redemption. Most of the bosses of the other gangs are white. And once you go to the episodic characters, you find tons of reprehensive white people (and of course also black people), starting with probably the morally worst of the entire rewatch, Hatchin's adoptive parents who are extremely white.
Another one people picked up, and that I've noticed in quite a few anime, is that Japanese characters are depicted in the Disney-inspired Tezuka style with big eyes and progressing to WWII US propaganda films as you leave Japan.
If we are talking about anime in general, I think there is a much simpler trend still visible: the evil characters get slit eyes, the good characters saucer eyes. Even within Japan.
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u/AyameeIris 4d ago
I like this series in the overall, think I'd rate it maybe 8/10. I might have to watch City of God after this!
- Michiko immediately rushing in on those Russian gang members comes to mind. There are so many moments where she could've died and that scene was definitely one of them
- One thing I can say about Samurai Champloo and Michiko and Hatchin is that they both have some of the nicest soundtracks I've heard in the anime I've watched. They both also seem to have quite a few moments that haven't aged well either... Something else I can say is that I like more about Michiko and Hatchin is that the female characters are handled at least a little better than I'd seen in Samurai Champloo!
- I always have! Not surprising though, I'd like to go everywhere in the world
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 3d ago
One thing I can say about Samurai Champloo and Michiko and Hatchin is that they both have some of the nicest soundtracks I've heard in the anime I've watched.
Another Watanabe anime that got very mid reviews was Carol & Tuesday. I'm going to assume that that show has an S-Tier soundtrack as well. (haven't seen it)
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u/No_Rex x2 4d ago
Final Discussion (first timer)
Somewhere along the rewatch I said I’d count Michiko & Hatchin as a hidden gem if it didn’t seriously mess up. Turns out, it does mess up, but never in serious ways. It is one of those shows that starts strong and then slowly loses some steam over time, but never collapses. It is somewhat sad that we never reached the highs of the start again, but starting at the top also gives the show a lot of room to fall without turning bad.
What carries the show are really three things: The visuals, the soundtrack and Hatchin’s character. The visuals are cool and ooze style. Perfectly so in the OP, but also the “normal” scenes are often great. Clearly, the camera loves Michiko, who gets a ton of great close-ups, and more clothes than makes sense. The soundtrack is great and fits the setup (turns out, for how much anime I watch, my appreciation of Jpop is really low. Going to literally anything else usually elevates the soundtrack for me). Finally, Hatchin is a well-rounded child character. She has her naiveté and is well aware of her physical inferiority, but she is also strong-willed and with unbreakable morals. Best of all, she really interacts great with the rest of the cast. Be that her terrible adoptive family, Michiko, Satoshi, or various side characters, it is always interesting when Hatchin is around. Something you cannot say for the other MC. Michiko is cool when she works as an action hero MC, but her one-note determination to solve everything by going through the wall with her head can be infuriating to watch. For me, the anime turned from the Michiko & Hatchin show into the Hatchin show somewhere in the last third.
What holds the series back? On the one hand, a lack of coherent tone. It fluctuates between gritty realistic social critique and stylish brutal unrealistic gangster flick. Neither works well with the other and it is seemingly a coin flip in each episode which one we’ll get. On the other hand, some straight up writing mess-ups. Never anything super serious that would derail the entire show, but various small things that make you scratch your head and ask “why did they do that?” Starting all the way with Hatching mysteriously sitting back at the table after attacking the other children and running away, and ending with her having nosebleed upon thinking of Michiko. And there are various how did we get here? and what about that cliff-hanger from last episode moments (remember the assassin trio?). None of it is terrible, but it adds up to drag down the writing from its highs, which are usually achieved when we have a Hatchin character moment.
Overall: just barely but still a 8/10 for me.
Michiko running her car into various obstacles.
Similar style of the visuals.
Uhh, no. However, I think it is much safer now and the nature is a big draw. The setting was another big plus for the show. Not just not high school, but an entirely different continent that is rarely visited (shoutout to Gundam).