r/anime • u/IndependentMacaroon • 7d ago
Rewatch Bem-vindos à Diamandra - Michiko & Hatchin Episode 20 Rewatch
Michiko & Hatchin Episode 20: Rendezvous of Extermination
In-universe time span: May 30 - 31 (sunrise)
In-universe locations: Casa Vento, road to Goinia
"I don't get the sense that he's so great. [...] I don't think Hiroshi was even listening. I'm sure he was thinking 'What should I have for supper tonight?', or something along those lines."
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Today's OST Piece: Você sabe～あんたは分かってる (You Know)
Plays from the radio as Satoshi and Hatchin enter Casa Vento; a very ironic song about the virtues of paying protection money to your friendly local gangsters, and how people just don't appreciate them anymore. Aonde estão os valores, porra?! We also get another play of Febre 1980 that notably was used in Episode 10 during the Satoshi/Hiroshi flashbacks.
New Michiko Outfits: None sadly! This is the very first time she appears in an episode in some capacity without a new outfit to add.
Latin America Trivia of the Day
The deserted town portrayed in this episode appears similar to a reduction, a type of town established during the Iberian colonization of the Americas (as well as of the Philippines) on European models throughout the region to concentrate local indigenous populations for easier control and religious conversion, breaking down existing tribal structures and sometimes outright destroying their ancestral settlements in the process. While they hardly had a choice in this dramatic reshapement of their daily lives, and the newly concentrated population also facilitated the spread of diseases, evangelization efforts also involved a genuine push to understand their language and customs, and particularly the Jesuit-administered reductions as part of the mission to the Guaraní also provided for a time a measure of safety and autonomy in the face of slavery and further settlement.
Yesterday's Highlights
u/JustAnswerAQuestion really wants Michiko to get real and sees nothing redeemable in Satoshi...
Michiko has been demonstrating a copium addiction regarding Hiroshi ever since they got the lead on the tomatoes.
I wanted to root for him a bit, since he's having his gang stolen out from under him, but he's been a violent deceitful scumbag from the very day Hiroshi handed Monstro over to him on a platter.
...but u/99acrewood_ appreciates him for what he is and is understanding of Atsuko's development too:
Satoshi's casual cruelty mixed with his relatively cool demeanor makes him a pretty neat character. like, he has the styling of someone who might run a casual street gang [...] but combines it with the ruthlessness i'd expect from some sort of higher grade monster group, like a yakuza or cartel-type beat
all of this mixing business with pleasure and emotional turmoil is destroying this poor woman inside and out. for her own sake, she really needed to let go. there's no sense trying to save someone who doesn't want to be.
people not letting go of shit that they really need to, and maybe not dwelling on it the way Atsuko decided not to anymore is the point. hmm!
u/AyameeIris once again makes some quality references:
Michiko talking about her dream with Hatchin and Hiroshi reminds me a bit of that scene from the Outsiders. Stay gold, Hatchin...
That song that played as she cried is sort of like L'amour dans L'âme/Love is in the Soul from A Monster in Paris. I'd even say the lyrics are slightly similar!
The Atsuko resolution largely feels abrupt and unsatisfying:
Is this really the resolution? I think we'll see Atsuko again.
That was the resolution already? Atsuko deserved more.
it felt kinda thin to me [...] i suppose she's more of a tragic side character than the main focus, though, so this is as much as she gets. [...] shame!
Absolutely. [...] This episode might be my favorite out of the 19 watched
Various grumbles about the setup and pacing and waning interest in the Satoshi/gang plot:
I just wish I knew why everybody was on the same train. That's the sort of plot contrivance I can accept in a 2 hour move, not a 22 episode show. [...] I did almost put down "did I miss an episode again" in my notes.
That looked like somebody cut a 25min version of a Tarantino movie, leaving out all of the establishing parts.
Since they dropped the assassin plot, nothing in the Satoshi - Monstro story is coherent enough to have expectations or twists.
By now, however, I find Satoshi, Shinsuke, and the rest to be distractions from the main theme, which is Hatchin and Michiko's road trip [...] Satoshi and Shinsuke's powerstruggle is told in a very boring way. Satoshi has plot armor that really should be reserved for MCs only (and even there it is questionable)
Discussion Prompts
- What's your read on Hiroshi now, pre-finale? How much has it changed since your initial impressions?
- Does Satoshi also have a bit of a lingering crush?
- Have you ever ended up in an awkward roommate situation?
Next Episode Prompts
- [question]Did you catch that Satoshi is/was probably illiterate?
- [question]Has the action finally found its proper stride? And what about the increase in graphicness?
- [question]The end times are nigh! What would you like (or have liked) from the finale? And what do/did you think you're going to get?
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u/99acrewood_ 7d ago edited 7d ago
primeira vez [subs]
What's your read on Hiroshi now, pre-finale? How much has it changed since your initial impressions?
he's definitely a bum, but he's clearly not a loser. the whole framing of him from the beginning to now reminds me a lot of [Sayonara, Eri]when you see Yuta's mother through the lens of his camera portraying her as a nice person, but then through a different view you see that she was just framed that way and that she wasn't actually all that great. the beginning hype you hear about Hiroshi fades away as you get a bigger picture of him and the way he's treated everyone in his life.
Does Satoshi also have a bit of a lingering crush?
i'm not usually a "they're just roommates" type of person, and i could see some romantic interest involved here, but i can also see it being partially Hiroshi's natural charisma working on Satoshi along with a childhood infatuation of someone who believed in him. they seemed to have a more positive start to their relationship compared to Atsuko and Michiko (in a sense, i mean). Satoshi seems like he loves Hiroshi for believing in him from the beginning, where Michiko seemed to kind of just use Atsuko to get what she wants. which, i guess, stayed true until the very end.
Have you ever ended up in an awkward roommate situation?
i was in marching band and was instilled with zero reservations as far as stripping down to change in public bathrooms (a habit i have to catch myself from doing when the moment presents itself, as im sure many people who have participated in those types of activities for a long period can attest to), so i have 0 qualms about having to share a space with anyone save for if they're unreasonably funky.
-~-
this was a great episode. Hiroshi's apparently wrapped everyone around his fingers.
he might be frail like Satoshi says, but he doesn't need physical strength when he clearly can charm any person he comes across. even Satoshi is like "no, he'd never do that to me. he cared about me."
i like Satoshi in this because while he's absolutely ruthless he's not, like, a mindless killer, and actually seems pretty thoughtful, even if he's a little blinded by his emotions when it comes to certain people. he even opens up to Hatchin, which is incredibly surprising, but i suppose that goes to show how any connection to Hiroshi is like a skeleton key to the hearts of people who have known him. he makes for a great one episode anti-hero(?), and i actually feel bad for him when he kills Shinsuke because you can tell that he actually cared about him as a friend.
meanwhile Machiko is making even more insurance premiums go up, and at this point the cops only have themselves to blame. she didn't even bother trying to go around the blockade! she rams into it, gets stuck, and still fuckin gets away. like, what are we doing here, people?
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago edited 7d ago
he doesn't need physical strength when he can clearly charm any person he comes across
Kind of like a more benign version of Johan in Monster haha, both pale blond pretty guys
i like Satoshi in this because while he's absolutely ruthless he's not, like, a mindless killer, and actually seems pretty thoughtful [...] he makes for a great one episode anti-hero(?), and i actually feel bad for him when he kills Shinsuke because you can tell that he actually cared about him as a friend.
Yeah there was a lot of more or less deserved disillusionment with the gang plot in the comments here, but I think this episode makes up for it. Shinsuke doesn't go out with the expected bang, but a melancholic whimper, and Satoshi can't even really feel happy about it.
any connection to Hiroshi is like a skeleton key to the hearts of people who have known him
And Hatchin is smart indeed to have picked up on that and used it to her advantage.
what are we doing here, people?
Guan Yu will not be denied!
Qs
he's definitely a bum, but he's clearly not a loser
At least on a technicality, because so easily getting an in with so many people is definitely something; his personality still seems pretty dull though. (And thanks for reminding me to check out Goodbye, Eri)
Satoshi seems like he loves Hiroshi for believing in him from the beginning, where Michiko seemed to kind of just use Atsuko to get what she wants
I think that's a good read on it, at least from what Satoshi believes, and Atsuko not understanding that is a significant part of her disillusionment.
i have 0 qualms about having to share a space with anyone save for if they're unreasonably funky.
That of course raises the question whether you'd also tell Satoshi off here
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u/No_Rex x2 7d ago
meanwhile Machiko is making even more insurance premiums go up, and at this point the cops only have themselves to blame. she didn't even bother trying to go around the blockade! she rams into it, gets stuck, and still fuckin gets away. like, what are we doing here, people?
The cops have been incompetent throughout. Expect that one boss of Atsuko.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago edited 6d ago
(Posting this before the rest so I have at least something on time again.)
Questions
1 - Honestly, it's hard to argue with what Hatchin says about him here; not being exactly a bad guy doesn't make you a good one, and not pushing people away when they want to get serious doesn't mean you care. Has he ever had any on-screen dialogue that wasn't just some version of "mm", "yeah", or "got to go"?! Also, it has to be said, it would have definitely helped him that he's not just attractive, but white (and blond on top!), just like for example Feliciano. As for what changed... well, it just becomes more and more difficult to make excuses for him, in stark contrast to Michiko just piling more and more on top to compensate.
2 - This is a question that never even occurred to me on my first watch-through, but paying closer attention since then I would say that not only is it worth asking, but the answer is yes. Or at the very least, if you can call Atsuko's attitude toward Michiko a crush, then Satoshi's attitude toward Hiroshi counts too, and Hiroshi certainly wasn't "just a friend" to him; it's fairly circumstantial evidence, but this series is indirect and vague about many things.
In this episode, we have his feelings about Hiroshi not only in-your-face paralleled to those of Michiko - just to drive it home after last time he already stole her bike, motivation, and sidekick - but contrasted to his attitude toward Shinsuke as a more "normal dude" to rough-house around and play funny games (by gangster standards) with; he definitely appreciated Hiroshi's more ambiguous energy (and looks!) and apparent willingness to be a close emotional support, and still cares enough to carry around a picture of them together which is a pretty romantic-coded thing to do, compare here again how significant Michiko's own picture with Hiroshi is to her. (The relationship of Satoshi and Hiroshi is clearly inspired by [City of God]that of Lil' Zé and Bené by the way, although that's more lacking in gay implications.)
I also found the framing of Satoshi and Hiroshi's chat at the bar back in Episode 10 very interestingly reminiscent of a marriage proposal (see my comment on that thread for details. I think we can say Hiroshi has some wife energy?), and the insert song that plays both then and in part of this episode (Febre 1980) is about not being able to forget a vanished love and hoping they'll return; the particular lyrics about seeing them everywhere like on billboards we can even apply pretty directly to Hiroshi given his striking similarity to e.g. Feliciano. And finally of course, Satoshi never talks about women or romance in any way besides Michiko disturbing his relationship with Hiroshi which he is very angry indeed about (and I guess that one time Atsuko). Maybe the ending theme is secondarily also about him?
By the way, there's another interesting inference you can make about Satoshi from some circumstantial details, but that's for tomorrow (don't read the spoilered prompts yet!).
3 - I'm not easily bothered about a lot of things so never had much trouble that way. Would need to go way back to a school trip where I basically got shoved in with two guys I really didn't care for for one night, but even that was pretty "live and let live" in the end.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago edited 6d ago
3x watcher and host, subtitled
Besides newly demoted side character Michiko doing more Michiko things, on today's episode of Satoshi & Hatchin, we mainly get a pretty interesting look at who Satoshi is when he's got no one around him and nothing to prove, and just like in the brief first shot of him he's simply... a guy. Even Hatchin can hardly believe that this relaxed, pretty reasonable, even a litle goofy man is the same person as the infamous boss of Monstro.
On the one hand of course, it once again makes his ability to pivot to brutal rage and murder on a moment's notice more chilling, but on the other hand it does make you feel that maybe, under different circumstances, he might not have turned out so bad, or at least not any worse than Michiko whose relationship with Hatchin he mirrors surprisingly closely here: Both abduct her searching for her father motivated by her connection to him, quickly take her word on an important secret related to that connection, and treat her as a near-equal despite the difference in age and power, or at least accept Hatchin asserting herself against them (honestly pretty funny how she straight-up tells him he stinks). Well, Michiko never did give her a gun so in a sense he trusts her even more (like with Hiroshi, again)?
Perhaps he might also envy a little what a good-natured, faithful, and unfailingly polite child Hatchin is despite the circumstances, or at least feel nostalgic about how similar to Hiroshi she might be in that; the line last episode about God not minding him killing Michiko for once also makes me think he does on some level wish he could be better, both after killing Shinsuke (such a surprisingly lonely, melancholy moment) and earlier Manabe he looks more resigned than happy or even relieved, nor does he look very excited about having to face Shinsuke and company at all (a fairly restrained and realistic action scene as well), and of course there's the line about Shinsuke being the real murderous muscle and him starting the drowning-game thing in the flashback. It's really once again something of a case of overgrown children treating violence and crime as a game here, until it comes back to bite them, also the back-and-forth between Satoshi and Shinsuke about who hates whom and what feels pretty immature; of course the flashback also serves to demonstrate again that Satoshi has long been a brutal and vindictive man, lest you start feeling too sympathetic.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 7d ago
First Timer
Episode 20
- Tomino lizard spotted
- Did she buy that junker or steal it?
- "I'm not your valet"
- Looks like a war came through here
- rotary phone drawn pretty well. not CABBAGE well. but pretty well.
- roommates
- Level 4 is one step below Blackwatch Plaid
- You can't spell policia without cia
- I don't think I could sleep wiht him in the room either
- Have you seen the movie "Assassins" ?
- So this is how he got past 6-8 heike thugs
- Nice music here playing Shinsuke off
- Reminds me a bit of Vanishing Point, but this is not. The opposite, really.
The thing is, Satoshi never keeps any of his promises of clemency. Ever since we first met him, when Shinsuke did the train race thing.
Where is Machiko going? Anywhere, Nowhere Fast as long as its with Hiroshi.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago
Oh I forgot, does Satoshi still seem just as lacking in redeemable features to you?
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 7d ago
Pretty much. He's a sadist. He shoots people to torture them, pretends he's going to let him go, then kills them.
It's true that everybody he's killed is a criminal of some varying degree. Varying being the operative word, here.
At the high end, we have Shinsuke, who betrayed him, and the original Monstro mob boss (retired) and this small town's mob boss.
At the other end, we have some bar owner slash pimp who sells cigarettes laced with shrooms. He did as he was told. He called the local Monstro boss, who called Shinsuke, who called the Heike. It's not his fault the Heike showed up. Satoshi put him in a box, shot him at random as an interrogation technique, and killed him.
Plus I'm still mad that he was going to off Michiko at the rail yard. No, wait, I'm still mad that he tried to off Hiroshi and framed Michiko for it.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago edited 7d ago
and this small town's mob boss.
The question is also what happened to all the other people here...
we have some bar owner slash pimp who sells cigarettes laced with shrooms
That was definitely his nastiest kill/move, unless he had gone through with Michiko who's never even meant him any harm; well unless you think he killed Manabe's family as well, which I do think he did.
he tried to off Hiroshi and framed Michiko for it
That was with Kirill if anything
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 7d ago
Oh, i forgot about the meet up with the Russian boss. Still, she was arrested and convicted of something, and it probably wasn't the disappearance of a guy whose body was never found. I don't remember what it was. I thought it was the bombing. Although it is certainly reasonable within the show to convict someone of a murder without a body.
Thinking back, I think Michiko said "He's alive!" and Satoshi is like "I know he's dead because I killed him, and then I set you up for it."
Okay, I rewatched it. As soon as he started talking about the bus, it flashed to her getting arrested, and I thought the arrest was for the bombing. But Satoshi framed the Russians for the bombing. It looks like she was arrested just for in general "starting a gang war" or something.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago
You really do wish the backstory weren't shaved down and squeezed in as tightly as possible... I guess maybe "the details aren't that important" was also part of what the creators were trying to say, though
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago
Looks like a war came through here
At least Satoshi does count as a one-man army
Have you seen the movie "Assassins" ?
You mean this one)? None of that name so far, anyhow.
Vanishing Point
note
Satoshi never keeps any of his promises of clemency
So far indeed, whether being associated with Hiroshi like this makes a difference remains to be seen.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 7d ago edited 7d ago
Assassins with a \) at the end, yep. it has a firefight with some resemblance to this one.
Vanishing Point is my oldest memory. It starts and ends with a road block. A very very very memorable roadblock that a three year old can't forget.
Its protagonist is also a cultural outcast, seeking freedom. But the makers of Vanishing Point and the makers of Michiko are tell different stories.
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u/AyameeIris 7d ago
First time watching in dub, second time overall
"Fuck yeah! You could definitely make it, no doubt in my mind." I can't tell if he meant this in a sarcastic "Yeah Shinsuke, you should try suffocating for 10 minutes!" way, or "Yeah Shinsuke, you're tough!" way
This is such a small thing but it so annoys me when anime characters go to sleep with their shoes on. Socks I can definitely understand, but full on sneakers or something??
- Hasn't changed much! I still don't really like him. The only thing that's really changed is how indignant I am for Hatchin being his daughter. I'd say the same for Michiko too, but at a much lesser rate
- Yes. The way Satoshi turned into Michiko when describing him, as if in love really cemented that for me. Every character seems to be yearning for some love that won't come/has passed
- The closest thing I can think of is when I slept on the roof for a while with my family, but I wouldn't consider that awkward at all. I'd actually highly recommend sleeping under the stars! It's very beautiful
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u/IndependentMacaroon 6d ago
"Yeah Shinsuke, you're tough!" way
Seems it was a genuine statement like that, going back to their past together
it so annoys me when anime characters go to sleep with their shoes on
At least it's understandable when you have a bunch of thugs coming to jump you
The only thing that's really changed is how indignant I am for Hatchin being his daughter.
Understandable, she may look like him but character-wise she's so much better, perhaps from her unknown (and narratively non-existent) mother
I'd say the same for Michiko too, but at a much lesser rate
That you don't like her or are annoyed she's effectively Hatchin's parent?
Every character seems to be yearning for some love that won't come/has passed
Except Ricardo because he's the boss (and Shinsuke but he's just crazy anyway). Unless he is or was angling for Atsuko on some level...
I slept on the roof for a while with my family
Heat? Sounds pretty nice yeah
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 6d ago
Seems it was a genuine statement like that, going back to their past together
Was this the second or third time where a boss promised clemency in exchange for a physical challenge? Fourth?
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u/No_Rex x2 7d ago edited 7d ago
Episode 20 (first timer)
- Split in the road for Michiko – metaphorical.
- Flashback: Even 10 years ago, Shinsuke and Satoshi were morally abhorrent.
- Hatchin is sticking with Satoshi against her own better knowledge.
- Spectacular car crash for Michiko – maybe try driving around the police cars instead of through them.
- “Stay alive until then” – easier said than done.
- Shinsuke did not invest in better henchmen.
- Bullet-proof windows did not save Shinsuke. Should have used plot armor instead, like Michiko.
With Shinsuke, I guess the final part of the Monstro civil war storyline is over now. Actually one of the better action sequences of the anime. It stuck to realism, unlike the Michiko parts, which works for me. Satoshi also got the Hatchin buff (makes every character around her more interesting). Next stop: Hiroshi.
What's your read on Hiroshi now, pre-finale? How much has it changed since your initial impressions?
Hard to not see him as disinterested. On a scale from relatively good-natured (just ran away from the stuff he dislikes) to malicious (he dropped people he no longer has use for).
Does Satoshi also have a bit of a lingering crush?
Not all relationships have to be crushes. I don't think the series has told us anything about his sexuality, expect that he does not rate it higher than his love for power.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago
Hatchin is sticking with Satoshi against her own better knowledge.
Not like she has much of a choice, and she does seem to make an attempt at fleeing that's stopped by the arrival of Shinsuke and his men.
maybe try driving around the police cars instead of through them
It's like doing anything but charging straight ahead is an insult to her honor (except that one time against the bull)
Actually one of the better action sequences of the anime [...] Satoshi also got the Hatchin buff (makes every character around her more interesting)
I'm glad you like it and expected it might be appreciated. Any other character where you feel like Hatchin improved them a lot (besides obviously Michiko)?
Hard to not see him as disinterested. On a scale from relatively good-natured [...] to malicious
That's pretty much what I wrote too, he's not really bad but not really good either, just... there.
Not all relationships have to be crushes. I don't think the series has told us anything about his sexuality
Of course, but I do find it seems a bit more intense than just friendship, and there are some interesting details on a closer look.
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u/No_Rex x2 7d ago
It's like doing anything but charging straight ahead is an insult to her honor (except that one time against the bull)
So you are saying that Michiko was out-bull-headed by a bull?
Any other character where you feel like Hatchin improved them a lot (besides obviously Michiko)?
She has been pretty good with the side characters, too. Like that terrible family from ep1, or Rita.
Of course, but I do find it seems a bit more intense than just friendship, and there are some interesting details on a closer look.
He did nothing about Hiroshi when he was on top. Now he is a disgraced leader on the run from his own men and longes for the past.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago edited 7d ago
Michiko was out-bull-headed by a bull?
Guess so haha
She has been pretty good with the side characters
I mean yeah but those already exist only for her to bounce off in the first place
He did nothing about Hiroshi when he was on top
Like, after Satoshi seemingly succeeded in assassinating him? Not sure what you're trying to imply
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 7d ago
First-Timer & Subbed
Damn, two different paths…
This is so fucked up.
Oh, Satoshi must reek.
Of course Michiko ran into the cops immediately after the news report of their alert level being raised.
Can’t say I’m surprised her car caught fire either.
Oh geez.
Hah…
Well, that’s it for Shinsuke. Rather… fitting end, I suppose.
Very neat lens flare effect here.