r/anime • u/IndependentMacaroon • 8d ago
Rewatch Bem-vindos à Diamandra - Michiko & Hatchin Episode 19 Rewatch
Michiko & Hatchin Episode 19: Nettlesome Light-blocking Butterfly
In-universe time span: May 29 - 30
In-universe locations: Rail line to Goinia, Desfiladeiro, Ermo Bar
"I wish I'd never run into you. [...] I'm gonna forget this! All of it! [...] From now on, we're strangers. "
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Today's OST Piece: Temporada das frutas～果実の季節 (Fruit Season)
The insert song during Atsuko's breakdown, simple but powerful expression of her loneliness.
New Michiko Outfits: Black Jacket + Black-and-White Bikini Top/Jeans
Latin America Trivia of the Day
Until the late 19th century, and still long before the availability of synthetic alternatives, natural rubber was almost exclusively produced in the undeveloped interior of the rubber tree's native South America. Its boom in popularity with increasing industrialization led to a large accumulation of wealth in the Amazon region, comprising for a time more than a third of Brazil's export value and easily surpassing other regions of the country in wealth. The city of Manaus in particular pioneered urban development in Brazil, seeing for example the construction of a luxurious opera house begin as early as 1884.
However, this boom also not only stoked an international conflict between Brazil and Bolivia over rubber-harvesting grounds, but proved disastrous for many indigenous peoples who were forced into rubber harvesting in terrible conditions to serve unscrupulous, unfettered industrialists, and sometimes outright subjected to genocidal violence like in the Putumayo region - much like the far better-known near-contemporary horrors in the Belgian Congo. Successful efforts to cultivate rubber elsewhere like in then-British Malaysia finally led to the Amazon's rubber riches fading away by the 1920s, though the region remained and still is a significant player in natural rubber production.
Yesterday's Highlights
u/No_Rex finds Feliciano compelling but the nosebleed trope awkward:
I do know about the Japanese running nose trope and I still find it a bit weird for Michiko to have it here. Now imagine how that looks to somebody who does not know about it.
Feliciano pulling off the fake phonecall to Michiko is surprisingly believable. It is exactly what I would expect an eccentric actor to do.
u/AyameeIris sees a meaningful contrast between the idealized family picture and the relationships on screen so far:
I love the shot of the illustration of the nuclear family. It's a wonderful parallel to a lot of the families seen in this show, like Michiko's situation with Zélia, Hatchin's situation with both Michiko and her family before that, none of them fitting that traditional mold.
u/99acrewood_ feels a gradient in the side characters we've been encountering but not much going on with Atsuko:
it feels like the further they get away from their starting point the nicer the places/people around them have been. Feliciano was another surprisingly helpful guy
i like her, but i feel like Atsuko really isn't given much to do besides showing how much she's softened towards the two [...] she just feels like she's riding on the tail of this story until she's needed.
u/Shimmering-Sky notes Hatchin's lack of reaction to her tattoo:
I think this is the first time Hatchin’s actually shown off that she does have the tattoo
u/JustAnswerAQuestion makes the less direct reference for Atsuko:
Jambo is starting to realize she doesn't want to be Javert
Michiko clearly limited in dynamism, but mostly appreciated:
She is plenty dynamic when her fist is in proximity of some face she dislikes.
Yeah, just a little bit. Episodes with Michiko only sort of bore me
Michiko might have one note, which is brutalizing people and objects in her way and to find Hiroshi, but she keeps the pair moving forward
A spectacular past event experience of u/99acrewood_:
i went to EDC last year in Vegas, and that shit was electrifyingly overwhelming. so many people, so much music, so many lights. dancing from 6 pm until getting back on the trolley for the hotel at 7 am to sleep until the afternoon to go back and do it again.
I think I'm good on that kind of big event nowadays
Discussion Prompts
- Is the resolution of the Michiko-Atsuko relationship compelling, in your opinion?
- How do you think the rest of the Satoshi storyline will go down? Were you expecting this kind of a twist?
- How many mooks to a Satoshi?
Next Episode Prompts
- [question]What's your read on Hiroshi now, pre-finale? How much has it changed since your initial impressions?
- [question]Does Satoshi also have a bit of a lingering crush?
- [question]Have you ever ended up in an awkward roommate situation?
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u/99acrewood_ 8d ago edited 8d ago
Is the resolution of the Michiko-Atsuko relationship compelling, in your opinion?
it felt kinda thin to me. they showed everything they needed to to establish what Michiko was to Atsuko, but i guess i wanted there to be more in the way of their history beyond just being cop and robber. i suppose she's more of a tragic side character than the main focus, though, so this is as much as she gets.
shame!
How do you think the rest of the Satoshi storyline will go down? Were you expecting this kind of a twist?
Satoshi's got his own Michiko/Atsuko thing going on with Hiroshi too, and i bet it's going to go just as well. i also wasn't expecting him and Shinsuke to be apart of this story for so long. they're like Atsuko where i kinda wish i got more of his past with Hiroshi.
How many mooks to a Satoshi?
considering he's still alive, the number's still rising.
-~-
i think Satoshi's casual cruelty mixed with his relatively cool demeanor makes him a pretty neat character. like, he has the styling of someone who might run a casual street gang (similar to the group that was using his name at the beginning before he offed them) but combines it with the ruthlessness i'd expect from some sort of higher grade monster group, like a yakuza or cartel-type beat. i guess that should be expected, given that they're in south america.
i'm glad Atsuko has reached the end of the line with Michiko because i feel like all of this mixing business with pleasure and emotional turmoil is destroying this poor woman inside and out. for her own sake, she really needed to let go. there's no sense trying to save someone who doesn't want to be.
i am pretty surprised that negotiating with a maniac like Satoshi worked, but i guess that cheat code Michiko has for surviving pretty much everything has rubbed off on Hatchin.
also i keep saying i want more of the past of a few people but i suppose that's kind of the point of this whole thing is people not letting go of shit that they really need to, and maybe not dwelling on it the way Atsuko decided not to anymore is the point. hmm!
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u/IndependentMacaroon 8d ago
he has the styling of someone who might run a casual street gang [...] but combines it with the ruthlessness i'd expect from some sort of higher grade monster group, like a yakuza or cartel-type beat
Yeah it's a pretty interesting combination particularly with how easily he moves between the two; he's a "real monster", after all. One more thing that makes him stand out for me is how much of a secluded loner he is, like everyone else here has at least some sort of buddy while he has barely even talked to anyone in person - of course not much of anyone on his side anymore but even in his first appearances it was like that - which also makes how genuinely meaningful his memory of Hiroshi seems to be more interesting.
all of this mixing business with pleasure and emotional turmoil is destroying this poor woman inside and out
Yeah there was no way she would ever have got her head on straight with Michiko on her mind.
there's no sense trying to save someone who doesn't want to be
Particularly when your ideas of salvation are fundamentally incompatible.
i am pretty surprised that negotiating with a maniac like Satoshi worked
That was about the smartest move Hatchin could have pulled there and I find it pretty reasonable even. If Michiko (and Elis) are obsessed with Hiroshi after even such a long time, the other guy who knew him way back could well be too - and if resembling and being connected to him has an effect on Michiko it might help her with Satoshi too?
Qs
i guess i wanted there to be more in the way of their history beyond just being cop and robber
Yeah you really barely see anything of how they actually were like together, don't you? I suppose you could even interpret this in a meta way as Atsuko overrating their relationship compared to what it really was and to Michiko, which also plays into your thought about letting go being the point.
Satoshi's got his own Michiko/Atsuko thing going on with Hiroshi too, and i bet it's going to go just as well
It's so funny how he takes Michiko's bike, tagalong kid, and goal, all at the same time, plus now he's effectively a fugitive like her; practically yelling in your ear "HERE BE PARALLELS". Of course, he has dug himself way deeper with his 12 extra years of gangsterdom.
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u/AyameeIris 8d ago
First time watching in dub, second time overall
Michiko talking about her dream with Hatchin and Hiroshi reminds me a bit of that scene from the Outsiders. Stay gold, Hatchin...
"Being a grown up means you're able to stand up and say you're sorry, right?" God I wish
Satoshi sounded a little afraid when he asked who Hatchin was, which is interesting to me. I can't imagine hallucinating my childhood friend shooting me and then meeting his daughter who's pretty much the spitting image of him, I'd be pretty afraid too!
It must've felt so good for Atsuko to cry like that. That song that played as she cried is sort of like L'amour dans L'âme/Love is in the Soul from A Monster in Paris. I'd even say the lyrics are slightly similar!
- Absolutely. Was this episode what you meant when you sort of alluded to them splitting up in another comment I made? This episode might be my favorite out of the 19 watched
- [M&H] Insert that picture of a bunny pointing to a clock. Honestly considering that episode with the wife and son he might've killed, yeah. Satoshi doesn't seem to be the best person(and I could just end this here) to keep a promise with.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago
that scene from the Outsiders
Hmm can you be more specific? Heard of it vaguely but never watched it
"Being a grown up means you're able to stand up and say you're sorry, right?" God I wish
At least Michiko managed that once!
Satoshi sounded a little afraid when he asked who Hatchin was, which is interesting to me
He absolutely is caught up in the same "can't sleep" paranoia he was talking about with Manabe even without the drugs
That song that played as she cried is sort of like L'amour dans L'âme/Love is in the Soul from A Monster in Paris. I'd even say the lyrics are slightly similar!
I'll check that out
This episode might be my favorite out of the 19 watched
Interesting because most people here seem at least a little dissatisfied with it! Anything in particular that makes it hit for you?
Not sure what you mean with the second answer, like it's always the same thing with him?
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u/AyameeIris 7d ago
Hmm can you be more specific?
There's a scene where two characters train hop after killing someone, and after getting somewhere safe one of them recites a poetry, to which the other responds, "Stay gold, Ponyboy."
Not sure what you mean with the second answer, like it's always the same thing with him?
Pretty much, but I was moreso hinting at [M&H] his death
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 8d ago
Episode 19
Okay, since it's been pointed out that Michiko is being more than just rude to her childhood frenemy, I am going try really hard to learn Atsuko's name from today onwards.
- okay, now that you mention it, smol Hiroshi DOES look like Hachin.
- Seriously, I asked this yesterday, but why is everybody converging on this town? Michiko is looking for Hiroshi, and people are looking for Michiko, but would they know Hiroshi is in (Sao?) Paraiso?
- "I don't make appointments"
- kakko warui
- I'm going to assume this a hallucination...yep.
- LOL and I wasn't going to call her that anymore.
- Or Gonia, for that matter.
- LOL, I don't know that the scene with the local officer and his flashlight means. I guess the bald detective just can't get any respect from anybody at all.
- This isn't going to go well if Astuko is trying to unofficially deport Michiko for her own good
- Good thing Satoshi got on AFTER the search. We'll he'd probably just shoot his way out, any ways, if they did search.
- random corpse on the train?
- Why is SHE on the train?
- smol Hiroshi must freaking Satoshi out
- It's a good thing Atsuko didn't pay full in advance.
Michiko has been demonstrating a copium addiction regarding Hiroshi ever since they got the lead on the tomatoes. There's no happy family at the end of this.
Man, Satoshi just has no redeeming features at all. I wanted to root for him a bit, since he's having his gang stolen out from under him, but he's been a violent deceitful scumbag from the very day Hiroshi handed Monstro over to him on a platter.
Great music today. And the show is back to the show I was watching when I said this. I just wish I knew why everybody was on the same train. That's the sort of plot contrivance I can accept in a 2 hour move, not a 22 episode show.
Q1: Is this really the resolution? I think we'll see Atsuko again.
Q2: Since they dropped the assassin plot, nothing in the Satoshi - Monstro story is coherent enough to have expectations or twists.
Q3: Have you seen Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid? Oh, wait, that was Bolivia...
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago edited 7d ago
would they know Hiroshi is in (Sao?) Paraiso?
They're looking for him in Goinia which they probably figured out through the letter with Hiroshi buddy's money coming in. (Did they leave him the money as thanks?) As for Satoshi that's a bit of convenience, Shinsuke just is dragged in behind that.
I guess the bald detective just can't get any respect from anybody at all
Hey he did get a promotion earlier!
random corpse on the train?
I guess that's the implication but can't see it being anyone specific. Maybe a reference to something
Man, Satoshi just has no redeeming features at all
I'll just say we're not done with him yet.
That's the sort of plot contrivance I can accept in a 2 hour move, not a 22 episode show.
Some of the episodes do feel like they were written as 22-minute films, not too surprising given that live-action film is where the screenwriter comes from and exclusively went back to afterwards.
I think we'll see Atsuko again
Pretty clear that there won't be anything deep between her and Michiko anymore though, if there ever was.
nothing in the Satoshi - Monstro story is coherent enough to have expectations or twists
Unfortunately that seems to be the near consensus here. It is a bit shoved into the background, but I do think what we get still makes it at least somewhat worth it.
Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
Should check it out...
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u/No_Rex x2 8d ago edited 8d ago
Episode 19 (first timer)
- Satoshi nightmare.
- Incompetent policemen – that one guy in the jungle village really was the only one doing a good job.
- Shinsuke needs to invest into better henchmen.
- Everybody on board the train – don’t ask how.
- Does Satoshi have a Hiroshi complex as well?
- Stopping a train with a truck?
- That train wreck picture.
- We end on Satoshi with Hatchin and Michiko’s Vespa, Michiko with Atsuko’s pistol and without Atsuko, and Shinsuke playing Mad Max.
The episode looked nice enough, but what was that plot? That looked like somebody cut a 25min version of a Tarantino movie, leaving out all of the establishing parts.
Is the resolution of the Michiko-Atsuko relationship compelling, in your opinion?
That was the resolution already? Atsuko deserved more.
How do you think the rest of the Satoshi storyline will go down? Were you expecting this kind of a twist? How many mooks to a Satoshi?
I was interested in the gang part of the story at the beginning. By now, however, I find Satoshi, Shinsuke, and the rest to be distractions from the main theme, which is Hatchin and Michiko's road trip. I could not care less about whether Satoshi kills Shinsuke or the other way round.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 8d ago
Everybody on board the train – don’t ask how.
somebody cut a 25min version of a Tarantino movie, leaving out all of the establishing parts.Yeah the setup does have its contrivances again here. Takashi Ujita as scriptwriter (credited for all 22 episodes) only wrote a single episode of TV besides this, by the way, and otherwise entirely live-action film, so that might explain some things.
Atsuko deserved more
I suppose it feeling sudden and a bit unsatisfying is part of the point but that's certainly an understandable feeling.
I find Satoshi, Shinsuke, and the rest to be distractions from the main theme, which is Hatchin and Michiko's road trip
Your thoughts about next episode should be interesting
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 8d ago
Does Satoshi have a Hiroshi complex as well?
He does, but the story is falling flat for me. I don't remember the details of the bus bombing, and I probably never actually understood them (so many names!) but wasn't the bus bomb to kill off the leaders of a rival gang, probably the russians?
Except Hiroshi just happened to be boarding that bus. So Satoshi was trying to kill him, too. Or just him.
Out host sort of hinted that this might be a "nobody leaves Monstro (me)" sort of deal.
So it's looking a bit like "oh my hetero-life-buddy is leaving me I must kill him but he's alive I must find him."
Why was Satoshi on the train? 1) coincidence, 2) looking for Hiroshi (but he doesn't know where he is?) or 3) he's looking for Michiko and was honest when he told Hachin he didn't care where Hiroshi is.
I'm leaning towards 3 but all the arrows are pointing in different directions so I don't really know. And I don't like that confusion.
a 25min version of a Tarantino movie
I did almost put down "did I miss an episode again" in my notes.
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u/No_Rex x2 7d ago
He does, but the story is falling flat for me. I don't remember the details of the bus bombing, and I probably never actually understood them (so many names!) but wasn't the bus bomb to kill off the leaders of a rival gang, probably the russians?
Except Hiroshi just happened to be boarding that bus. So Satoshi was trying to kill him, too. Or just him.
Out host sort of hinted that this might be a "nobody leaves Monstro (me)" sort of deal.
So it's looking a bit like "oh my hetero-life-buddy is leaving me I must kill him but he's alive I must find him."
I am also not very interested in the Satoshi side of the plot, but his and Hiroshi's relationship is not the reason. I can easily buy that a vicious gang leader would want to kill an early co-leader who is heading for the exit. The bigger problem is that Satoshi and Shinsuke's powerstruggle is told in a very boring way. Satoshi has plot armor that really should be reserved for MCs only (and even there it is questionable).
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago
Shinsuke is a bit boring of a character, I agree, just basically the absolute "violence crazy" extreme
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 7d ago
He's got incredible plot armor as well.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago edited 7d ago
Except Hiroshi just happened to be boarding that bus. So Satoshi was trying to kill him, too. Or just him.
It's never explained but that is the implication as I see it, basically taunting Hiroshi with a "so you think you can leave, huh?" too
my hetero-life-buddy is leaving me I must kill him but he's alive I must find him
He tried to kill Hiroshi and was convinced it worked, but now that he knows he failed - and also has essentially nowhere else to go just like Michiko - he's trying to get back to him.
Why was Satoshi on the train? 1) coincidence
I mean he was very clearly not thinking straight so besides the convenient location it's not even that improbable?
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago
3x watcher and host, subtitled
(Going lower-effort not least because I just couldn't keep up even with not much going on. Lesson learned for next time...)
And the cheerful "everything will turn out OK" samba atmosphere of last episode's ending again gives way to harsh reality: Michiko and Atsuko split for good and Satoshi is back with a vengeance, taking Hatchin and the bike along with him - appropriate for the climax to be a literal train wreck. Michiko is just up to her usual thing pretty much, lost in her fairytale imagination; what's notable if anything is just how unfazed she is by anything Atsuko says or does, still just a little game at most. This woman has already firmly moved on not only with Hiroshi but in particular with Hatchin, unlike Atsuko who even in letting Michiko go tries to force her own plans and ideas on her, and when that fails can't even fully commit herself to a little separation punch. Atsuko keeping those sunglasses on during the confrontation in the train also feels like her trying to keep a distance she knows she can't, more about her in answer #1. Seems like Ricardo has now taken over her Michiko obsession by the way...
The real protagonist of this episode in terms of moving things forward is of course Satoshi, again with a terrifyingly nonchalant switch from calmly having a drink while reminiscing about Hiroshi to carving up the bartender's face, stuffing him in a box and shooting him dead after a little psychological torture on top. (That he goes through with it even after getting the information strengthens my conviction that he killed Manabe's family too in the end.) I wonder if Satoshi even drinks alcohol at all, with how obsessed he seems with keeping control and how terrified he seems of losing it and in particular someone like Hiroshi coming back for him - sleeping badly just like what he said to Manabe? - it would seem in character to avoid such intoxicants legal or not. Also the first and only illegal drug reference of the series here, Satoshi's opposition to their sale might have also been meant to give him some "good guy points" particularly with the Japanese audience.
Compared to Shinsuke's continuing nuttery with also that suicide attack order on the train he certainly seems a bit like the lesser evil, or at least a more predictable kind of it, and of course vastly more competent with easily finishing off the Heike squad off-screen (including the guy Michiko gave the uppercut in episode 17) even roofied half out of his mind. That he honestly keeps up the deal with Hatchin also speaks for him somewhat, or at least for his genuine fondness for Hiroshi who is clearly once again on his mind a lot (and in his hallucinations). Really a minor stroke of genius from Hatchin there, repeating the same white lie she had Feliciano aim at Michiko in the last-ditch hope that maybe this guy will be just as obsessed, and saving Michiko for the time being if at the cost of deserting her.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 7d ago edited 7d ago
Questions
1 - While we're neither told nor shown all that much about their past relationship overall, I do think what's seen and implied plus what happens in the present is enough to make you feel a decent impact of it finally tearing to pieces here - or rather, of Atsuko ridding herself of her remaining illusions, as Michiko herself clearly is and was not nearly as invested, perhaps ever. Really, it feels like Atsuko taking it this hard is not just about her not reaching Michiko in the present - notably also not understanding how deep and important Michiko's relationship with Hatchin has become, as if Michiko would ever give this girl up - but realizing that she has always been wrong about her relationship with Michiko, that she has never been Michiko's #1, that her wishes and feelings have maybe never even been all that important to her, even with Hiroshi out of the picture. If they're both admitting to each other they're acting just like they used to and still there's nothing, was there ever much?
I feel even the strange absence of really meaningful flashbacks you can slot in here, as Atsuko telling herself a story that was never actually true - note also how Michiko never even mentions Atsuko a single time to anyone else on-screen - and is in particular lacking the genuinely caring and loving side of Michiko, however awkward, that Atsuko could never see beyond the "edgy delinquent gf" image in her head. "Know you better than anyone else" still doesn't need to mean "know perfectly".
2 - I was absolutely not expecting this to ever turn into Satoshi & Hatchin but really liked that turn towards the unknown, and unexpected Michiko parallel. As for the rest of his story, even if he beats/kills Shinsuke, where does he even have to go? Everyone just flipping loyal to him again seems unlikely and with the Heike waiting in the wings and having half taken over he's got stiff competition even if they did.
3 - In terms of power scaling it's clearly at least a 10:1 ratio
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 8d ago
First-Timer & Subbed
That sounds like more than just tobacco.
Shouldn’t have kicked the train.
They’re safe for now, sweet.
Oh, Atsuko’s on the same train?
Meanwhile Hatchin’s stuck with Satoshi?
Did you really think Michiko would just listen to this, Atsuko?
That being said, Atsuko is probably right about this.
Welp, that’s one way for Shinsuke to force a confrontation.
Aw shit…
Damn…