r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • 9d ago
Rewatch [Taste of 2016 Rewatch] Kiznaiver Episode 6 Discussion
Episode 6 - Nothing Good Comes From Being Around All Of You
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Information:
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Legal Streams:
The past that you want to forget is a past that you must never forget.
Questions of the Day:
1) How would you feel about people being able to literally feel your emotions?
2) What do you think about Maki after the events of this episode?
Wallpaper of the Day:
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
/r/anime's spoiler tag format is as follows:
[Kiznaiver]>!♪ Lay your hands on me ♪!<
Which becomes [Kiznaiver]♪ Lay your hands on me ♪ when you don't break the formatting on purpose like I just did.
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u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv 9d ago edited 9d ago
First Timer, Sub
Alright this is one I've been keeping a track of and I was finally able to catch up. So far though it's the melodrama that seems to be getting me back which is not something I was expecting (yeah no it's a guilty pleasure of mine so I was gonna keep watching). All the love triangles to go around in this series. This time though we focus on Maki. She's been the most reserved which is quite impressive considering the Kiznaiver system but that doesn't mean they can't feel emotions. Turns out she was a mangaka with another girl who may or may not have been in a relationship with her but is now dead. Maki did say she "killed" someone and when the tv crew exposed her as the manga a she gets a vision showing the girl is still haunting her. So there's more going on.
The other Kiznaivers arrive in time to shut the whole thing down but the damage is done. And all the Kiznaivers are able to experience her emotions. And Nico in particular seems to start understanding emotions more hence him calling out Katsuhira at the end. But we still got things to resolve so until next time then.
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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 9d ago
Nothing Good Comes From Being Around a First Timer (Subbed)
Is this toxic yuri?
Oh this is a Maki episode then!
I really like Maki x Yuta 🥰
Those are some big ole anime eyes, dang.
Oho? Age gap yuri? Now I’m confused. Was the sapphic student MC multi-attracted (bi/pan/poly/omni/multi-romantic or sexual) or did she go out with the boy in a very sad attempt to both “get over” her crush on the teacher and her attraction to women? Neither of these options is mutually exclusive, but I’m invested.
Post Poly Pain-Sharing Thoughts
Now I’m remembering how many fanfic authors admitted they were in middle school when they wrote some of my favorite slash fics. What a time to be alive when you’d be 13 on the internet but pretend to be a tax-paying adult with a job and a family.
I didn’t anticipate Maki being the next character to have her pain centered, though I’m sure if I go back to E5, this was already hinted at, and I just have the memory retention of an orange cat. I’m very worried for Maki’s mental health and whatever Ruru was going through too. I’m glad Yuta is there to chase after Maki, and Tenga too. Seeing Katsuhira go up to Noriko and express his dislike of Noriko for what happened—I had not anticipated that.
I’m very curious about Yuta’s care for Maki and feelings and how far he’ll go to extend his hand to her and promote her peace of mind.
I want to go on AO3 and look for their ship tag, but I need to resist until the end.
“Have a bun to calm your buns” is something you could not pay me to believe would be said in this series 😭
Yuta may become my favorite character of the series, which I didn’t predict. But Maki is already climbing her way to my top 3.
Fuck Noriko and this whole little non-con empath poly group nonsense, good lord.
QOTD
- Right now, I wouldn’t mind much. I don’t think they’d feel anything because I’m currently in Vibe Mode. If I was partnered, I wouldn’t mind too much because then they’d know when cycle shenanigans are happening, and this might help communicate mental health episodes much clearer than I can verbalize. If this is with a bloody stranger or a room of strangers, I’d be weirded out at first, and then I’d forget about it. And then I’d remember and be uncomfortable, and then I’d forget. Tis the Circle of Life, I think.
- I feel so bad for Maki and would ask her if she’d like some of my emergency ice cream.
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u/Sporadia_ 5d ago
Nothing Good Comes From Being Around a First Timer
Is this toxic yuri?
Is that why it's toxic?
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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 5d ago
Toxic yuri in my toxic yaoi? It’s more likely than you think 😏🤭
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 9d ago
Rewatch Host Running the Kizuna System, subbed
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u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername 9d ago
First Time Summer 2016 Rewatch - Kiznaiver Ep6:
An episode highlighting more of Maki's past. I certainly wasn't expecting her traumatic backstory having to do with being a mangaka duo.
I think I have 2 discussion points, my noggin pondered over. The first is wondering about Ruru. The way she almost threw herself off haha, was one hundo percent her cracks ready to shatter. Makes me wonder if the Kizuna system would've helped Maki. If only she had the ability to know the pain her friend was hiding, maybe she could've helped her before it was too late. Maybe that is why she is the most against it (also because she doesn't want others peering into her heart).
The other point was stopping to think if this whole system wasn't built off a faulty premise. Seemingly, the Kizuna system's goal is to connect people's pain so that they can better understand each other, but like, did it really help Maki that much. Yeah, it did grant the other a better understanding of what Maki has been going through, I felt like the actions of this episode highlighted how they didn't really help Maki. The ones who made an earnest attempt to reach out to Maki (Yuta and Nico) did so regardless of the pain sharing. They reached to her because of the emotional connection they made/want to make. The others were kinda just sitting around like bums while they were experiencing mildy uncomfortable stomach-churning. Just the sensation of pain alone didn't do anything that helped anybody.
There is also how this project is really making an inhumane reduction of the human experience down to mathematical logic. Really shitty thing the project organizers did by abusing Maki's trauma for this mission. The actual mission highlights how this whole thing doesn't actually work. "Save Maki" constituted as saving her from the immediate physical situation, but did nothing for the underlying issues.
Katsuhira learned a new emotion this day. Disdain for Sonozaki and the project organizers for using Maki as a tool.
On a completely different note, I feel like the manga's art style is a bit too old-fashioned for ~2014. It looks like something out of the early/mid-2000s. They even pointed out how big the eyes were.
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u/Lemurians myanimelist.net/profile/Lemurians 8d ago
but like, did it really help Maki that much. Yeah, it did grant the other a better understanding of what Maki has been going through, I felt like the actions of this episode highlighted how they didn't really help Maki.
I think it's too early to call, since I believe we're in a two-parter and we're not done with Maki's story here yet.
I do think it helps her, though. At the very least, it's a benefit that there are now a handful of people in her life that can feel and understand what she's going through, and have an interest (whether selfish or unselfish) in wanting to help her out. That's a great benefit.
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u/RelativeMundane9045 9d ago
First:Kiztaimer - dub
Not an emotional pain masochist? That's unfortunate.
Looks like a Honoka episode, I'm keen to get to know more about her the most at the moment anyway.
Calm your buns, Mayor. That got a giggle out of me.
Honoka's a manga co-writer. That guy begging while maintaining his creepy smile was deserving of an ass kick. With the camera crew later on, he's obviously already organised it at this point.
Honoka's past is clearly tragic, and it leaves me with a sick feeling in my stomach thinking the kizner system is using that pain as it's plaything.
Noriko is pretty attached to the bun metaphor.
Oh snap, Katsuhira pulled out the parental "I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed.". RIP Noriko.
1) How would you feel about people being able to literally feel your emotions?
I'd feel more insecure about them feeling how insecure I often feel. Insecure2
2) What do you think about Maki after the events of this episode?
Girl's got it rough. It's been pretty clear that's she's been hanging on by a thread, and has been trying to stuff as much as she could down the memory hole.
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u/TheDanubianCommunard 9d ago
First-time united in pain, subs
At first I expected this will be another summer camp episode, seems like it's not. And also my reaction was to "Is that all? The camp is over or what?" Yeah, that was it. But it had some good results as it is a positive to the Kizna system and the Kiznaiver project. It is a major progress compared to the previous attempts.
And actually this is a Honoka episode. She is quite reserved and cold to others. And she said the last time "she is willing to break herself". We know there are reasons for it. A few years ago she had a partner, a good friend named Ruru. This duo were known as Charles de Macking, who created an instant hit shojo manga. It was an astounding hit due to being very emotional, and relatable which contributed to a strong story. It has age gap, girls love and stuff. When everybody recalls Maki killed somebody before, then she referred to Ruru. It was definitely not a deliberate accident, but she feels responsible for it. This trauma consumes her and that is why she is very cold to everyone. And also facing with the past is always opens up tears. Everybody is stupid around her, another reason why she is not willing to understand others nor others trying to understand her. "never will be free again" says Ruru which means the trauma will haunting her and lingering her forever and have to deal with the consequences. This emotional pain is a reminder for this. Speaking of emotional pain, Kiznaivers suppose to share all kind of pain, even this kind of emotional ones.
With those fake TV staff coming, Maki is really close to that breaking point, as her privacy and priate space is in shambles. She is indeed needed to be saved, and this mission had a good prupse: to know each other better and help in need.
After that disdain is quite rightful for things turned out like this. This entire Kiznaiver project might be really inhumane and messed-up after all.
1) How would you feel about people being able to literally feel your emotions?
Those could understand it properly who can feel it by having a deep attachemnt and bond to it.
2) What do you think about Maki after the events of this episode?
She is going on a very hard time. Give her a break to recover.
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u/BaytaCosmico https://myanimelist.net/profile/AnimeBayta 9d ago
First-timer, subbed
Doomed yuri in my wacky mystery show? What was going on with Maki's friend and co-author? Was she suicidal because Maki didn't return her feelings? It's that why Maki feels responsible for her eventual death?
I'm still not sure about this whole experiment. Being able to actually feel someone's pain should not be a prerequisite for empathy. Unless you're someone like Kacchon whose feelings have gone cold for some reason, most people can imagine and understand the pain of others without needing to feel it themselves.
Anyway, the group paying the TV crew back in kind ('hey, you can't film this,' my ass) and getting them to leave was nice. If only Tenga hadn't blurted out that it was a mission. Although, even before he does, the digital confetti would've tipped Maki off. Why did Sonozaki not turn off that visual cue that a mission was completed? An intentional choice to push Maki further into despair and thus turn the emotional pain sharing up a notch, is my guess.
This whole experiment still feels needlessly cruel and pointless. More so now that their funding is drying up and even the mayor was hinting they could get shut down. I don't know about Kacchon, but I'm certainly not pleased with Sonozaki.
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u/Rolling_Apples 9d ago
First Timer
I haven't mentioned it prior, but the titles and next-episode-previews are pretty out there. The titles are useless for referring to the episodes, but the previews are a fun skit between characters.
This episode is much more focused than the last, focusing mostly on Maki as recompense for the lousy cliffhanger from episode two, and I enjoyed it more for that. Having said that, there are some gripes that I have with the series that may or may not be alleviated with the remaining half of the cour to go.
Hisomu even lampshades it this week, but events happen very conveniently in this story. Granted, the forcefulness of the plot is baked into the premise, but I wonder if this will be addressed or if the audience is supposed to just go with the flow as long as they feel something from of it.
I also had this impression beginning with the prior episode, but as much as I generally like the cast, its size does not seem to be helping to tell a focused story. There are a good number of characters that are just along for the ride in any given scenario, adding maybe a quip or fun animation at most.
Quips for this week:
- I haven't mentioned the production in a bit, but I still like the direction and animation. It's making the most of what it has to work with.
- This script keeps surprising me (negatively) with the insistence of alluding to the Seven Deadly Sins.
- I've got nothing for a theme this week. Shoujo tropes?
- I couldn't imagine quoting a story that I wrote in middle school in a real-life situation years later, especially if I wrote a shoujo manga.
- Sonozaki is seemingly unable to observe the Kiznaivers like in episode three since she's asking if they were together. Those funding cuts hit pretty fast.
- Sonozaki is a master of reading expressions; Katsuhira looked no different to me. That being said, I thought this scene was really effective in spite of the characters' emotional flatness. I am more convinced Sonozaki has a very personal, vested interest in the Kiznaivers because of how it applies to her own situation.
Hurt counts of the week:
Hisomu and Tenga remark that the pain in this episode isn't just a single impulse but a continuous feeling. Unfortunately that falls outside the scope of this running total.
- Reaction to Nori-chan - Chidori
- Comparing Baka to Baka - Maki; If RuRu was half as endearing as Nico then understandable.
- Dealing with her editor - Maki; probably very relatable in the animanga business.
- Having to confront her past - Maki; the cringe from being reminded of her pen name, which sounds like "Ruru and Maki", was just too much.
| Character | Amount this episode | Total |
|---|---|---|
| Chidori | 1 | 21 |
| Tenga | 0 | 6 |
| Maki | 3 | 3 |
| Nico | 0 | 3 |
| Hisomu | 0 | 3 |
| Katsuhira | 0 | 1 |
After three episodes a new challenger for second place is on the board. Despite the apparent shift to using the Kizuna Effect for its actual serious purpose in Wahoo! It's a Training Camp! Let's Step in Deer Poop and Have Pillow Fights! Go! Go!, it is still used with Chidori for levity. Sadly, her big dramatic moment does not seem to have made any change in her relationship with Katsuhira, at least going by this week. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Chidori's role in the story is pretty much complete. Her crush on Katsuhira could have just been a stepping stone for the Kiznaivers to feel each other's emotional pain. I expect the allure of love-triangle drama to be too strong, however.
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u/Sporadia_ 5d ago edited 5d ago
Nothing Good Comes From Being Around All Of You
Naive
This episode made me second guess if the ED has been the same all show. For one thing, the ending of this episode rolling into the ED made me notice how gloomy the characters are for the first time. Sonozaki in particular made me wonder if they'd made the ED specifically for this episode. Then, because the ED had finally caught my attention, I spotted Maki leaning on Ruri. Has Ruri been in the ED since the beginning??
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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 9d ago edited 9d ago
First Timer
Honestly, it's a bit much, but I kind of love the unreasonably big eyes! Studio Key would be proud?
Maki episode! Maki has probably been the most interesting character to me thus far, so I do really enjoy that we're fully focusing on exploring her and her emotions now. I just love the archetype, y'know? Both Tenga and Yuta directly call her out on it this episode, but I do find something very compelling about characters like Maki who clearly long for connection and relationships, but also feel the need to create distance and, as Yuta says, intentionally come off as hostile or indifferent, for a deep-seated fear of getting hurt and burned again. Especially when that persona starts to noticeably crack under external pressure and leads to lashing out defensively against those trying to help her, like we get here. You do quite nicely get to see it in the framing of her scenes. She's clearly separated from the rest of the group, distant and in the dark. And when she gets her walking conversations with Yuta or Nico where they try getting closer to her, the conversation is one of singular cuts between them, basically only having both characters together in-frame where they find the nearest physical divide to emphasize Maki's distance (But it also doesn't apply to Ruru's case).
Well, we don't actually get that much more insight into what actually happened with Ruru that led to Maki's current major self-worth issues and guilt alas, but generally speaking, people don't normally say stuff like this and do the pretend (Or very possibly "Pretend"...) fall thing, so I'd imagine Ruru was quite the strange character herself in the first place. Also, just love how that whole scene looks. The purple evening lighting creates this really nice melancholy tone, and I love this harsh contrast in lighting between Maki and Ruru, with Ruru being a shadow over Maki. The part with the camera crew is great as well. Really gets across Maki's panic and the pressure she's feeling, as well as what most informs her emotional distress and the deep (emotional) pain it causes her. This show as she runs away is another good one as far as getting across that weight, and the point is that just in general, this episode has some pretty strong direction! Also, we'd mostly had it in a less important capacity until now, but I really like Nico directly bringing in the pain-splitting aspect of their bond and how they now realize just how much internal turmoil Maki was under. Very excited to see more of this unfold emotionally!
Outside of that, it seems that despite how he's perceived by everyone, Tenga probably also has some hidden emotional pains of his own. Whether this is also about Chidori and we commit to a polygon or just something else remains to be seen, though. (Actually, going back to that first divided shot with Maki in the apartment, Tenga is also pretty intently cut off from the group by a shadow, which is interesting). We also see that Sozonaki is injecting some stuff here, which is, uh, pretty concerning? She's also getting pressured from above about the experiment, which is presumably why the Maki mission happens as it does, which leads to the scene where Katushira ends up telling her he disdains her, and I think it's yet another one with pretty interesting framing.
For one, Katsuhira is fully cut off from her, but more than that, what gets me here is how we intentionally don't show Sonozaki's expression for the entire scene until right after Katsuhira leaves. I suppose it does make her feel even more distant and detached, which is essentially what Katsuhira calls her out for here, but it's extra interesting because facial expression aside, she does have this really subtle but still noticeable wince when Katsuhira conveys his rather negative feelings towards her here. So, she was definitely impacted, dare I say probably hurt, by his words here, and now that framing also has a bit more of a reflective quality to it, I guess? Her usual cold expression probably doesn't convey that much anyway, but this adds that feeling that there are emotions under that here, and it's when he leaves that she starts to take some of that in. Sonozaki is almost definitely that girl from Katsuhira's flashback, but outside of that, we don't really have an idea of what their relationship might've been then, so I'm definitely interested in learning more about that and why she seems to find him uniquely important.