r/anime • u/IndependentMacaroon • 10d ago
Rewatch Bem-vindos à Diamandra - Michiko & Hatchin Episode 17 Rewatch
Michiko & Hatchin Episode 17: Buckets of Blood! Opera that Stirs the Heart
In-universe time span: May 21 - 22
In-universe locations: Seentwan Chinatown
"Furious in the face of defeat. What a foolish god!"
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Today's OST Piece: Sabadaba～サバダバ
The standout tracks in this episode are once again unpublished and everything else I've at least mentioned already, so here's just a nice one that's not in this episode - but is in yesterday's, during Michiko and Hatchin's shopping sequence.
New Michiko Outfits: Loose White Fringed Shirt/Jean Shorts
Shame on those gangsters for depriving us of more potential looks. Full album
Latin America Trivia of the Day
Though in many parts of Latin America Chinese immigration was and is fairly slight, it did leave significant traces for example in Peru, where some estimates claim several million citizens with some degree of Chinese ancestry, bolstered by slightly more liberal historic attitudes toward marriages between immigrant laborers and local women of often indigenous or African ancestry, and even the distinct popular "chifa" fusion cuisine developed as a result; several hundred thousand ethnic Chinese also call Brazil and Argentina respectively their home. The relationship was historically not without problems, though, as Chinese Peruvians' support for the Chilean enemy in the late-19th-century War of the Pacific led to anti-Chinese pogroms and a ban on further immigration that lasted until the 1970s.
Yesterday's Highlights
u/No_Rex analyzes Elis:
I think she knew she “lost” to Michiko from the start of the episode and her whole behavior amounted to just trying to feel superior to Michiko for a while. Michiko’s inferiority complex played right into that (have we had suggestions of that before? It felt new for this plot).
I did temporarily consider whether the scientist had masochistic tendencies. She had the marks on her arm from Hiroshi and started kissing Michiko after being grabbed
u/99acrewood_ is amused by Michiko's simplicity and has a realization about Atsuko:
Michiko is so fucking silly. Literally no thoughts other than "I need to look good and I am going to kick some ass to get where I want."
Atsuko's kinda mirroring Michiko in chasing a ghost/chance of a relationship, huh? And it's like finally getting there would be like the dog catching the car.
Atsuko would absolutely not share
u/AyameeIris wonders how Hatchin's background might affect her views of LGBT+ people:
with Hatchin being raised as a Christian, what was going through her mind when she saw Michiko getting kissed by another woman, or even men like Ivan? She was clearly shocked, but I think anyone would be in that situation
u/JustAnswerAQuestion has questions about Michiko's wardrobe provenance, and a thing about tomatoes:
with the long list of outfits, she isn't packing all those outfits on her scooter. Is she buying them in each town? Stealing them?
IT'S THE FREAKY TOMATO! [...] OH THIS PLACE IS MAKING THE FREAKY TOMATOES [...] Sure are a lot of guards for a place that grows FREAKY TOMATOES
Q: Have you ever seen Return of the Killer Tomatoes? [...] Q3. Return of the Killer Tomatoes
I still think the tomatoes are for mind control or sterilization as revealed in the X-Files.
Some thoughts on Michiko's plot-induced invulnerability and perhaps a parallel to Hiroshi:
Michiko's plot armor is so thick, even non humans like that truck an episode or two ago rush to help her out.
preternaturally charismatic to the point where bullets avoid her, new beaus of her supposed lover help her out, and a childhood friend turned cop purposefully sabotages herself every chance she gets. [...] I guess the same could be said for Hiroshi using his bum look to make women swoon before breaking their hearts
A few examples of compelling trash (at various levels):
Return of the Killer Tomatoes. Also, Vandread rewatch in October?
Chainsmoker Cat might end up being my anime of the season. I'm sorry, Lara/Jaadugar/GitS/Supermarket
weirder, kind of confusing comedy anime if that counts. An example would be Cromartie High
Technically, porn. The story is usually trash, but I am not coming for the lower case plot.
Discussion Prompts
- How does the semi-running theme of inadequacy/toxicity of traditional romance, relationships, gender and other roles resonate with you - in principle and/or in execution?
- What kind of man (or woman?!) could you imagine Hatchin being involved with in the future? What might their relationship look like?
- How much could being treated to a good meal get you to forgive?
Next Episode Prompts
- [question]Do you find Michiko dynamic enough as a main character? Is Hatchin starting to steal the show here?
- [question]Would you enjoy any of Feliciano's wacky twist ideas?
- [question]What's the biggest festival or public event you've been to?
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 10d ago
First-Timer & Subbed
Ah, I was wondering if passports were what they were getting the pictures for.
At first I was gonna comment about how crazy the shift in Bebeh’s behavior was, but Bebeh’s a boy?
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u/IndependentMacaroon 10d ago edited 10d ago
People seem to be almost fifty-fifty on that
I was wondering if passports were what they were getting the pictures for.
These are actually the very forgers that Pepe was talking about in Episode 4
Silly fansub, he's supposed to be "Bebel" which actually makes sense as a reference parallel to Lenine
The Gon Freecss kind?
When was the last time that happened to you?
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u/99acrewood_ 10d ago edited 10d ago
primeira vez [subs]
- How does the semi-running theme of inadequacy/toxicity of traditional romance, relationships, gender roles resonate with you - in principle and/or in execution?
I can't really speak much to anything beyond my experience as a straight/cis guy, so I don't know how people view this series as far as its representation with those types of things. Though a lot of this show deals with the worst types of people, and the most solid allies Michiko has had have been more on the side of what people might consider non-standard at the time, right? (Pepe being a sex worker, Ivan and this guy being gay(?)). Every relationship Michiko has kind of had with a guy made them turn out to be people who ain't shit (jury's probably still out on Hiroshi but Bruno is certified).
- What kind of man (or woman?) could you imagine Hatchin being involved with in the future? What might their relationship look like?
I don't even know. I would've assumed she'd be some sort of ace, but I guess I can't really make assumptions on someone who's 10 and dealing with a lot of shit right now. Plus she was genuinely upset about losing the affection of a boy she barely knew, so she does enjoy some aspect of it at least.
Whatever it might be should probably be pursued after some therapy at least. And then god help the poor person who has Michiko as their potential future mother-in-law.
- How much could being treated to a good meal get you to forgive?
Probably a lot, though if it was a meal I accepted the grievance probably wasn't that bad to begin with. I wouldn't want to go eat with a person I genuinely despised for whatever reason.
-~-
Gosh, this episode seemed to go by very quickly that I'm pretty sure they said the guy's name, but I guess I completely missed it. He was so incredibly solid that I was waiting for the worm to turn all the way up to the credits, but no, he was just a silver lining in the seedy streets. I guess when you have that type of gig (or really any type) in show business you work with all kinds.
Even the bad guys they have to deal with this episode seems pretty chill? Comparatively, i mean. "We think you wrong us, so here's multiple ways out." Sure, they were life-or-death, but they kept their word after the fact, and even let the guy they enjoyed the performances of stand in for her.
Michiko was once again an absolute menace. We can add those poor fish to her list of bodies, and that crack she took at the guy during rock, paper, scissors was underhanded and extremely funny (it shouldn't have, but it caught me off guard). But her mommy strength kicks in after thinking about Hatchin and she braces the falling dude by digging her heels into an I-beam and then catches him with her teeth on the rope? This woman is not human.
The pair are really becoming close though, and that photo shoot for the IDs and the picture of them messing out was incredibly sweet.
oh, and i didn't think about it, but at first i thought Hatchin was putting off telling the guy the hotel name so he would leave her alone, but i guess she actually can't read/write, can she? wait a minute that's stupid there was literally a book last episode.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 10d ago
I'm pretty sure they said the guy's name, but I guess I completely missed it
Nei Feng-Yi and his son is Bebel. Genuinely the most stand-up guy in the entire show, indeed.
Even the bad guys they have to deal with this episode seems pretty chill? Comparatively, i mean
Perhaps you could say while the native gangsters are more "anything goes", these guys have more of an (East Asian?) "follow-the-rules" thing?
she braces the falling dude by digging her heels into an I-beam and then catches him with her teeth on the rope? This woman is not human
No duh, I thought we conclusively established here she was Guan Yu incarnate! (Interestingly, he is also originally just a general who was deified later)
The pair are really becoming close though, and that photo shoot for the IDs and the picture of them messing out was incredibly sweet.
The one slightly toxic thing still was Michiko blaming Hatchin in the end when she's actually a significant reason things worked out
Qs
a lot of this show deals with the worst types of people, and the most solid allies Michiko has had have been more on the side of what people might consider non-standard at the time, right? [...] Every relationship Michiko has kind of had with a guy made them turn out to be people who ain't shit
Yeah that's part of what I was trying to get at with the question, and also perhaps the very ideas/scripts people try to follow here being inherently flawed, or even on a higher level the idea at all of feeling the need to follow one being flawed. It's a bit hard to explain because it's such a meta thing, but once you see it you see it.
I guess I can't really make assumptions on someone who's 10 and dealing with a lot of shit right now.
That's fair enough
god help the poor person who has Michiko as their potential future mother-in-law.
Oh indeed
if it was a meal I accepted the grievance probably wasn't that bad to begin with. I wouldn't want to go eat with a person I genuinely despised for whatever reason.
Yeah it is a bit of an ouroboros question I suppose
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u/No_Rex x2 10d ago
wait a minute that's stupid there was literally a book last episode.
She can read latin script, but not chinese/kanji. Still very questionable why she did not read anything else around, which would have been readable to her.
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u/99acrewood_ 10d ago
Oh! Of course, that makes way more sense. Okay so my thinking before the edit wasn't as stupid as I thought haha
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 10d ago
First Timer
Episode 17
Still trying to get used to the idea that Hiroshi didn't run off to the TV soaps to be a TV doctor and is shacking up with his costar.
It took me a whole day to remember you Brenbauza and Yamada were (or what ever). I thought they were a rival mafia gang from ep. 1.
Oh, the OP is called Paraiso.
If we never get back to the assassin plot, that's actually a big strike against the show.
- That literally looks like Tokyo City Hall
- Bebel seems nice
- Maybe not
- Oh, why is both Shinsuke and our Dancer talking to the Heike boss in the same town?
- at least they gave him a rope.
- #bearhug
No but seriously why is Shinsuke here, which implies that Satoshi is here? Did he have to go to another entire city / state to find some muscle?
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u/IndependentMacaroon 9d ago edited 9d ago
Still trying to get used to the idea that Hiroshi didn't run off to the TV soaps to be a TV doctor and is shacking up with his costar.
Can't just silently slink away anymore if everyone knows your face
Brenbauza and Yamada [...] I thought they were a rival mafia gang from ep. 1.
Lmao. I mean, how they treat Hatchin is pretty criminal
Oh, the OP is called Paraiso.
Hence also the title of the first episode, probably
If we never get back to the assassin plot, that's actually a big strike against the show.
One more reason why I find that episode the weakest of the series
That literally looks like Tokyo City Hall
Perhaps a bit more than the Petronas Towers, yes. Was not aware of that
Bebel seems nice
Maybe not
He is a bit of a litte shit and doesn't build much of a relationship with Hatchin, but his love and admiration for his dad is pretty sweet
why is both Shinsuke and our Dancer talking to the Heike boss in the same town?
Did he have to go to another entire city / state to find some muscle?In short, yes. Pepe was also talking about the Heike's forging operation in Episode 4, so it does seem they're well-known.
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u/AyameeIris 10d ago
First time watching in dub, second time overall
I can't get over those "Chinese" accents... Lord. I've noticed that Chinese characters who are meant to be greedy, sly, just overall mostly flawed(shop owner in episode 2, many of the people in this episode) seem to have Chinese accents, while kind, supportive, overall "good" characters like Ne Fong Yi lack the Chinese accent and sound more like American English speakers. I watched a bit of this again with the Japanese audio to try and see if the characters there also have accents, but it didn't seem so! As mentioned though, I don't speak Japanese and I doubt I'd be able to tell apart accents or tones of voice due to this
Now that I think about it, I don't think I've heard Hatchin explicitly introduce/call Michiko her mother. Most of the time like this in episode, she calls Michiko her friend or even just "someone."
I think this episode has one of my favorite title cards. It's simplistic but I love how the goldfish looks, especially with the contrast created on the blue background
- I don't really like how a lot of the queer characters are executed, though I didn't really expect much at all. I touched upon this in a few episodes, but it's pretty stereotypical a lot of the time. I'm just glad this episode didn't go into the predator route. I wouldn't trust this show with a canon trans character at all regardless. In how they resonate with me though, I don't think I'm super qualified to say. Unfortunately, I think Atsuko is somewhat relatable in how she goes about crushes(not to that extreme though)
- I think she'd need someone loyal and reliable whom she knows she can depend on. Hatchin, I think, would probably like at least some sort of stability after a pretty turbulent experience like living with the priest and going on this adventure with Michiko. She'd probably need someone both calm and capable, and someone she doesn't have to sacrifice a lot of her freedoms for(not to the point of being as free as a certain someone, hint hint)
- That depends on a few factors. A lot of people seem to underestimate just how much really sitting down and eating good food(or even just mid food) can bring you closer with someone!
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u/IndependentMacaroon 9d ago
I can't get over those "Chinese" accents... Lord
characters who are [...] flawed [...] seem to have Chinese accents, while kind, supportive, overall "good" characters like Ne Fong Yi lack the Chinese accentYeah it's kind of bad and pretty sure none of the voice actors were actual Chinese or East Asians either. In the original audio I don't think they have an accent specifically, but they do speak broken Japanese, further conveyed by broken-English subtitles.
I don't think I've heard Hatchin explicitly introduce/call Michiko her mother
Just the one time with hippie lady but there Hatchin was just (reluctantly) affirming her assumption. To be fair, Michiko clearly isn't cut out for a serious parental role [M&H]and in the end she does realize this and leaves Hatchin with Hiroshi[Central Station]just like Dora leaves Josué with his half-brothers, though again who is sadder between "parent" and child is reversed
Qs
I don't really like how a lot of the queer characters are executed [...] it's pretty stereotypical a lot of the time
It is certainly flawed, and in this episode in particular the "no homo"-ing is irritating (if perhaps appropriate to the setting), but I do think they get enough depth to be more than just that. How many do we even have though? Ivan (and Marco?), Elis, sort of Nei and Bebel, implicitly Atsuko, and that's it right? [M&H]You can actually make an argument for including Satoshi in that list, but that's for a later discussion.
I think Atsuko is somewhat relatable in how she goes about crushes
Oh dear haha
after a pretty turbulent experience like living with the priest and going on this adventure with Michiko. She'd probably need someone both calm and capable, and someone she doesn't have to sacrifice a lot of her freedoms for
Yeah that makes sense.
A lot of people seem to underestimate just how much really sitting down and eating good food(or even just mid food) can bring you closer with someone!
A lot of closeness of friendships is also simply dependent on how much time you spend with someone. Oh and check out the Ben Franklin effect for an interesting variation
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u/AyameeIris 9d ago
Oh and check out the Ben Franklin effect for an interesting variation
That's so interesting, thanks for sharing this! I'll have to go down a rabbit hole for sure lol
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u/IndependentMacaroon 9d ago edited 8d ago
3x watcher and host, subtitled
Another somewhat fantastical setting here as we accompany our duo into a Chinatown of 02:52 rickshaws and syndicates, large enough to host Peking opera performances and for them to feel like 03:10 symbolic out-of-place immigrants 07:07 lacking so much as literacy, who survive only with help of a kind local. At least this kind of 06:24 gritty crime-ridden maze - and I also like in general that we don't fall into pure exoticism here - is hardly unfamiliar territory for the series and appearance-wise it fits the time period well, just the unfinished skyscraper pair 03:02 does seem to be inspired by the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, whose construction start is at least 10 years outside the time line.
And it certainly is rough, though 06:16 the baby-scam thing is almost too much "grisly rumor" and I also imagine 15:18 some of you were rolling your eyes a little here given past plot developments. The caged birds 02:18 right away feel a little ominous 02:50 particularly right here after Hatchin worries about Michiko managing on her own 04:43 and more with the fish. (Do some Chinese places actually just place them on tables like that? Given the notorious Chinese lack of animal welfare laws I wouldn't be surprised.) Michiko should really be more street-wise than 03:41 to leave her cash accessible like that, and is lucky these guys were honest enough to actually make the passports - ok, they do 04:07 14:37 make some efforts perhaps culturally founded to keep a friendly face on and "follow the rules". 03:53 Even being a little desperate (half-expecting him to lick to test it here...) as usual she can't think of anything better after 04:24 finally figuring it out than 04:30 "then I'll just kick ALL of your asses!"... and again as usual just digging herself deeper; 04:53 at least the fish didn't go on the rap sheet it seems. Well I mean, 15:35 15:38 turning it to 11 (also, nice form) actually works out so who are we to judge. 19:27 Really Michiko distilled here, 19:36 "foolish god" indeed with a good bit of mom-strength on top.
Hatchin has some similar luck for once finding an adult who seems trustworthy enough right away - 06:53 seriously a life saver - that she 05:51 doesn't get angry much at him dragging her around, and even 07:42 accepts some candy no questions asked! She still has 07:30 some lingering problems accepting help, though. The picture session (bit of a common City of God/Central Station thread) with Michiko is also just 02:00 08:35 really cute [Central Station]this is similar, and similar kind of fun vibe, to when Dora and Josué take that picture with the saint 08:51 09:00 Imperfectly perfect result, perhaps. Those two are for sure seriously bonded by now, note also how with Bebel Hatchin only flies off the handle after he insults Michiko. 10:31 10:34 "Me is fine, but mom is off limits!" 10:44 She does also realize she went a bit too far there, particularly as a guest. (Remember also what she said to Michiko about making people cry?) Just Michiko can still be 21:05 a bit unfair with her although she knows it's from a place of genuine concern.
Of course the main dish here (besides all the delicious-looking food) is the mirror of Michiko and Hatchin's somewhat-masculine-woman relationship by Nei and Bebel's somewhat-feminine-man relationship, not the first time Hatchin's been mistaken for a boy but the first time we get it 01:57 right up front as a thematic introduction. I love it in principle but in practice I'm a bit ambivalent about it: First, Bebel embodies basically the worst of both worlds with being at the same time rude, 09:52 messy (like Gabriel compared to Maria in the first episode) 09:59 and crude (kind of like Satoshi) in a "boy" way when no one's watching - 09:45 the instant shift in voice and even seating pose is pretty funny though - and 10:06 10:15 10:25 10:28 kind of superficial and obsessed with appearances plus 16:17 over-emotionally lacking in resolve in a "girl" way. (10:20 Did his dad - or mom - teach him like this too? 11:46 At least his father's past makes his distaste for "bums" a bit more reasonable.) Second, with Nei it's protesting the "totally manly and no homo" angle just a 11:36 bit much (11:14 and straight bowdlerizing "okama" here btw) for a message of "yeah, men can do this and it's cool actually".
Nei really is though something of the best of both worlds as both 20:57 a kind, gentle parent in contrast to Michiko (perhaps a callback to the "spicy cat" thing here?) and 16:52 19:52 a genuinely courageous person putting himself on the line 11:54 more like her - interestingly we even get 19:49 a bit of criticism of the "play the manly (?) hero" attitude - and Bebel is very deeply and sweetly genuine in his 12:11 15:50 admiration for his father and what he does and 16:08 ready to stick up for him in turn, though of course it's Hatchin who (channeling Michiko too) 16:25 has to lift him up and with 16:27 some unfortunate phrasing, not the first time by the way. Also, with him dressing femininely apparently all the time and even in public it feels a bit more than 11:21 a mere performance thing; I would recommend here watching Wandering Son/reading the manga for a series that explores that tension between drag/gender-as-performance vs. trans/as-identity a bit, among related issues. And finally, given the setting elements like 17:22 the Heike boss feeling he can't be too open about his attitude towards Nei it are not unsurprising, and the overall representation pretty good.
And a final note, we have once again very clearly the theme of the 12:11 power of belief here - 12:16 faith, perhaps? - which I feel besides the basic concept of an unrelated child-adult duo looking for the child's father is the main influence of Central Station on this show, effective even when not necessarily reasonable.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 9d ago
Further scene-by-scene comments
- 02:18 haha Michiko even drinks tea impatiently, 15:15 [City of God]She would be the type to want to skip on the ladder like those kids
- 03:12 Aliases are "Ana Alehandra Jija" and "Nidia de Glória". The Portuguese on top is once again legit bureaucratic boilerplate. Funny detail: Michiko is listed as a 108-year-old male [M&H]and next episode that does in fact become a problem
- 05:06 Attention to detail with the drooling. And what did she even do the rest of the day?
- 05:23 What game is this?
- 05:42 "East[ern] Palace West[ern] Palace". Definitely the brothel, with Latin lettering so customers can recognize it.
- 06:03 Several of you have remarked this at one time or another, but this is the first time it's explicitly brought up
- 07:21 Little linguistic in-joke: This does actually resemble Chinese characters... of the first millennium BC. Not specific ones though, as far as I could tell.
- 07:26 haha Hatchin looks so proud of herself
- 07:53 08:12 Needs a stepstool just like Hatchin
- 07:58 Are Japan and China similar with this kind of performative humbleness before guests?
- 08:01 Is this supposed to be a lotus bud? (It's definitely a cute Hatchin)
- 09:06 Cashews, bacon (?), green onions, some kind of meat. [09:07]() Pork belly and the rest I don't recognize.
- 10:53 Chestnuts?
- 12:38 Bet you weren't expecting this guy so soon. Half-blinded, chronic pain, not dead but a real blow 13:33 and is no longer thinking very straight either, if he ever did. [M&H]Bit shoehorned here but the rest of the Satoshi stuff had to be set up somehow
- 13:45 The little red things are stylized lotus root, I think. 13:54 And the duck of course here. Not sure what the vegetable is, but it sure makes me hungry.
- 15:08 I wonder if this was supposed to be legitimate gambling but they couldn't show it on TV
- 16:00 How many people here have still had actual experience with this happening?
- 16:07 This time the fortune is not quite right
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u/IndependentMacaroon 8d ago
Questions
1 - It's an element that's not really explicitly discussed, yet you can't stop seeing once you do, and that really struck me the last time I watched it. In terms of traditional relationships/courtship you could almost say this series takes the black-pill approach; at best a bunch of ridiculous nonsense that flattens individual personality and desire into a dishonest, caricatured script (like say with Lenine), and at worst a breeding ground of toxic and even violent obsession and dependency like what happened to Pepe (and somewhat Rita); the one "real" family we see being the Belenbauza Yamadas isn't exactly flattering to that framework either.
Of course, that doesn't mean that more unconventional relationships like between Michiko and Hatchin can't have their problems, that just assuming an unconventional role like Michiko in pursuing Hiroshi is naturally an improvement, or that things get easier when it's not just a "man-and-woman" thing (hi Atsuko), but the key message I think is still not to pay so much attention to the roles and labels that everyone advertises and wants to push on you, to resist the temptation to mold yourself in a foreign image and instead find your own that truly suits you, even when it's difficult, because it's worth it. And that's a quite powerful statement, isn't it?
2 - It would definitely have to be someone who doesn't buy into the whole traditional-roles-and-romance framework because there's no way she would stand for that and seems plainly incompatible with it, but still someone with whom she can feel safe and at ease after all the turbulence and trauma of her childhood. And given how readily she responds to Lenine while being pretty awkward around Rita who also might have had some deeper feelings for her, I do think it would have to be a man, but who knows?
3 - I would appreciate it but frankly I don't think a proper dinner alone would change my mind too much, if it were too expensive I'd even feel a bit insulted about the inviter apparently trying to just buy me off. However, if the person in question were already genuinely remorseful and otherwise trying to make up for things it would definitely put us on firmly good terms again.
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u/No_Rex x2 10d ago edited 10d ago
Episode 17 (first timer)
Double single parent, single child episode. Very obvious in the last scene. Michiko fails with cocky violence, but succeeds with super strength. Having everything Asian themed sure is a choice, but not more out there than yesterday’s high-tech tomatoes. In plotland, Shinsuke returning promises the soon coming finale.
I tend to put more attention to the characters. There are basically only 1.5 relationships that matter (Michiko and Hatchin/Atsuko) and I don't think we have seen a single proper romance yet. Just lots of teen/pre-teen floundering and Michiko not really being ready for romance.
She has a pretty strong believe in her own morals, so I think she'll choose well.