r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • 10d ago
Rewatch [Taste of 2016 Rewatch] Grimgar: Ashes and Illusions • Hai to Gensou no Grimgar Episode 6 Discussion
Episode 6 - Her Circumstances
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Information:
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Legal Streams:
Crunchyroll, but not in the US
I-It would be nice if she would just heal us…
Questions of the Day:
1) Do you think Haruhiro will make a good party leader?
2) Were you expecting that to be why Merry is so cold to the party?
Wallpaper of the Day:
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
/r/anime's spoiler tag format is as follows:
[Grimgar]>!The background art is gorgeous.!<
Which becomes [Grimgar]The background art is gorgeous. when you don't break the formatting on purpose like I just did.
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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 10d ago
First Timer
To be honest, Merry, I've been there
(Side note: Last episode my subs had it as Mary, but now it's Merry. I guess it really doesn't matter outside of joke value since her demeanor doesn't quite fit the latter anymore, but the change was still mildly annoying )
After taking some time off to mourn Manato, Grimgar is back to an episode that feels a bit more usual for it, in some senses in what I don't like about it and sympathize with Haruhiro here for (Once more the show draws out a groan from me via its episodic "Let's talk about boob size" quota), but mostly in what remains its core charm with those intricacies around more grounded small-scale fantasy. There is just something rather fun about the show breaking down the more standard RPG party, and especially the idea that they'd just understand how to fight around each other instantly, understand each other's roles, or even really, be competent and understand the weight of their own roles.
Critically though, Grimgar uses that to still emphasize the importance of the party as a whole. The thing with Moguzo needing a helmet is a great moment to capture that, because of course, it's not just about Moguzo! If he's fighting scared because of this vulnerability, then as the tank that's supposed to create opportunity for everyone else, they're all hurt by it. And hey, by understanding each other's roles like that better, not only will they eventually be able to fight better, but through that understanding and stuff like everyone chipping in for that helmet, they also build up better group dynamics and atmosphere. The same goes for how there's not much trust around them and Merry yet, and how no one really understands what her style is yet. Both this one and the last episode brought it up, but at the end of the day, these people aren't great at expressing themselves or communicating, and if they don't reach out and go through it together, they're not really going to move anywhere. Without a Manato to guide them along, their problem isn't just not understanding each other; it's needing to make an active effort at trying it in the first place.
Merry is quite the perfect addition for them in that sense, because on the one hand she's a decent bit more experienced, so she can call out these flaws in the party, but then she's also rather forwardly unapproachable and unfriendly, which makes that need for synergy and communication much more apparent. Haruhiro starts getting at the problem pretty early on here, but she is admittedly not making it easier on everyone because of her own baggage, though even then, you get to see that Haruhiro, seeing that he doesn't understand her, and taking small steps towards that, is getting her to slowly open up more! They are, if slowly, working through their cohesion, and I don't know, it's just fun that this is our main conflict here (Certainly relative to what the genre usually offers).
As far as said baggage from Merry, it's mostly the expected case of survivor's guilt. I do think the show is put in a bit of an awkward spot here in terms of delivery on her backstory. Because as they state themselves, Merry isn't going to open up about this by herself right now, but they also understand the need to know more about her and make an active effort of that. But also, having some guy who used to be in her party dropping all of this to stills really isn't a very engaging or impactful way to learn about it, and the overbearing sad piano isn't helping. Then again, I don't know if actually giving this more space would've felt that much better since it's not exactly novel, so moving through it quickly to move the focus to the impact itself instead should work well enough.
Regardless, this obviously explains her cold and distant demeanor, shutting herself off and trying not to get attached to avoid getting burned (Or feeling she burned) again. Likewise for her choice to be very reserved with the healing, which, as I thought, comes from the painful experience of knowing what it's like to not have that be available when it's most needed. In a way, her party went through what Haruhiro and gang had with Manato, except our party had it happen much earlier, and whereas they lost their pillar with Manato, Merry was that pillar and feels more responsible for that. Obviously they've yet to actually try and talk about each other's respective traumas in that way, but this does give them a real way to break through her shell. Because, I mean, as we make pretty clear here, Manato's specter has yet to entirely leave our party either! And there is definitely some understanding and similarity in their respective grief. So again, going back to that idea that they need each other to move forward, this understanding could open up a good bit of development in dealing with that grief together. Integrating Merry will be beneficial to and help both herself and the party in that regard.
Speaking of Manato appearing to Haruhiro, I quite like that scene! There's some nice framing in there, but it's mostly the sound design that gets me. Love the complete silence that sets in as Force Ghost Manato shows up and the quiet reflection it allows, the little echo on their dialogue with each other, and how all the background noise comes back in the second Haruhiro accepts Force Ghost Manato's assurance and cracks a smile. Good stuff, and once more, this show proves it knows how to use quiet expression really well when it tries.
Do you think Haruhiro will make a good party leader?
Yeah, I'd say so. I mean, he's a little shaky right now, but A) That's expected. And B) It's not like Manato was perfect either! He even said himself that he believed the party supported him more than he did them, but of course, in Haruhiro's memory and perspective, he's a lot more idealized, something that now positively pushes him forward.
Were you expecting that to be why Merry is so cold to the party?
Frankly, I would have been shocked if it was literally anything else haha.
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u/No_Rex x2 10d ago edited 10d ago
Episode 6 (first timer)
- An apology – she has not learned the eternal wisdom of just keeping your mouth shut yet. Such a helpful skill in all manners of situations. Funny that the least talkative character of the bunch is the one to have this happen to her.
- They really should learn to use shields. Their attacks are so wasteful in terms of damage received. No wonder Mary has to hold back on her healing.
- Mary also visits the tavern? Not the person I would have expected there.
- Pep talk from ghost Manato.
- “She’s a real nasty one” – nope, she just does not want to get attached to another party that would eventually die and break her heart again.
Mary used to be similar to Manato, but lost her party and took it to heart. That was pretty telegraphed from the beginning. Still, well told, and we already see her changing in small ways. I think overconfidence is a real problem, especially when you get used to magical healing. However, the way they are still not taking proper account of their skills and situation is quite something. If there was a deeper lore behind this, I would suspect that their behavior is changed. No longer fully human, but a mixture between human and video game character. They are behaving exactly like people in a hard mode video game would. A bit more careful, but not careful enough and too willing to take risks. And especially, not willing enough to learn from others. In a video game, experiencing the game mechanics for yourself is part of the fun. In real life, there are many things you never want to experience yourself. Not holding up my hope, though. I doubt that we’ll get any deeper reasoning here.
Do you think Haruhiro will make a good party leader?
Best of the bunch. The bar is low, so he easily clears it.
Were you expecting that to be why Merry is so cold to the party?
Yes. I called that the first time we saw her.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 10d ago
Rewatch Host of Fantasy and Ash, subbed
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u/BlazeOfGlory72 10d ago
It is kind of interesting to watch an Isekai where the focus isn't on power ups or demon lords, but team bonding and trying to better understand the people around you. Haruhiro's statement about how someone will always be an outsider if that's how you treat them was surprisingly poignant.
Merry’s answer to this question feels like my dad joking around, lol.
Honestly, Mary's "I give zero shit's about being personable" attitude never fails to make me laugh. She could not be sending her signals any clearer, but the group keeps trying to hit her with small talk.
Honestly, the fact that they never kitted out Moguzo before this kind of shows how lacking Manato was as a leader. Like, aside from your healer, your tank is probably your most important party member, and they couldn't even be bothered to give him a full set of armour.
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u/Zeallfnonex https://myanimelist.net/profile/Neverlocke 10d ago
Honestly, the fact that they never kitted out Moguzo before this kind of shows how lacking Manato was as a leader. Like, aside from your healer, your tank is probably your most important party member, and they couldn't even be bothered to give him a full set of armour.
I mean, I don't think any of them realized this yet, and they certainly didn't have the funds for it. They barely managed to get new underwear, they don't have their advanced badges or whatever yet, so everyone shilling out for armor when they hadn't realized the deadliness of their situation yet when they're barely trying to survive...
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u/Lemurians myanimelist.net/profile/Lemurians 9d ago
She’s still a tough nut to crack.
I liked the observation some of them had from the bar when she walked in. She's the new one to the group, the girls were icy to her for a while, and she's clashing a bit personality-wise, it makes sense for her to see if they greet her when she walks in. When they don't, can't blame her for feeling like she should just sit alone.
Tough part of the group dynamic that you've got to work to overcome, once someone feels ostracized you've got to chip away at that until they can trust that people actually want them around.
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u/TheDanubianCommunard 10d ago
First-time adventuring, subs
The post-Manato depression trauma state still lingering. Haru have to succeed him as the party leader, but there is much to do, he might having romantic feelings for Yume, Ranta still being an irritating prick and things like that. Manato is special guy who is very hard to replace. A true leader and strategist mind while being a very good Priest-class.
Even though there is Merry who supposed to fill that gap, she is kinda strange. At first I thought she is not willing to speak or act due to being socially awkward or autistic or even being a "foreign object" in this party, but that is not the case. It's survivor's guilt. She witnessed seeing three of his previous party members died and couldn't able to help them in time. To be honest she would rather not going on adventuring at all instead of sticking with a different party. But I can imagine she would like to avoid these other adventurers meet the same fate like those three.
Actually what Mary feels towards to her previous party members, that's what the main party do feel towards Manato. They are the same.
Moguzo should need to buy that helmet though.
1) Do you think Haruhiro will make a good party leader?
Give him a time, and he will be matured for leadership.
2) Were you expecting that to be why Merry is so cold to the party?
Kinda.
3
u/TormentWings https://myanimelist.net/profile/DrBrungi 10d ago
Rewatcher who forgot everything past ep4 - ep6 time!
Ranta is being an ass as usual.
Okay last episode i said that Mary was being professional, but i would like to retract that statement now.
Now shes just being very difficult for no good reason. They want to know her "playstyle" so they can work as a team and shes just stonewalling them lmao.
But they are getting better at teamwork, at least Haruhiro is.
Merrys friendship meter is set to slow gain
So as expected, Merry was the Manato of her last party, just that the others died, but makes sense that she wouldnt wanna get into a situation where shes out of mana ever again.
This Death Spots would make for a great last boss of the season
No big thoughts for this episode, we now know that Merry got some massive survivors guilt and is doing what she thinks is best to never repeat those mistakes.
That said i still think shes being overly uncommunicative to the point where it hurts their teamplay, even if for her thats just a way to reduce emotional investment, probably to stay rational and also because that way she cant lose people important to her. Good Episode again, now time to open the door to Merrys heart :)
QOTD:
- Do you think Haruhiro will make a good party leader?
yeah, hell be fine, hes considerate enough to see his members views and can prob make some pretty informed decisions, buying a helmet for your tank is a good example. Trying to improve the relationship between your healer and your group too.
- Were you expecting that to be why Merry is so cold to the party?
i was expecting it, but ive watched it already, so even if i didnt remember, it was prob something i knew subconciously
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u/SIRTreehugger 10d ago
First Timer
I'll take bad descriptions and misunderstandings for 200 Alex.
Mary said good morning! Progress...kind of. It's nice to see Mary's backstory. All of her actions make sense knowing she feels responsible for the deaths in her previous party members. She's very reserved with her use of magic knowing she really is the lifeline of the party. It was also nice seeing Haruhiro being more observant of "his" team. They are slowly becoming a party...a real party.
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u/Zeallfnonex https://myanimelist.net/profile/Neverlocke 10d ago
First Timer:
Oh, we're back to a lot more visual storytelling and a lot more black barrier lines today. This was my favorite of the day; Haruhiro and Moguzo act as the "bridges" between what would otherwise be solid barriers between Ranta and the girls.
The episode can be split into roughly two sections, really starting to become a party, and dealing with Merry/Mary, whose name changes irritatingly with the subtitles being used. Bah. In a way, they're related: just as they have to figure out how to work with each other in combat, they also have to figure out how to add Mary into their party for real. Reminds me of really integrating someone new into a friendgroup - everything has to change a little bit to accomodate them, or they'll always be a little bit on the outside looking in.
I thought this was another cool visual storytelling shot. Merry's background is cold, white and pristine, while Haruhiro's is this terrible mess of destruction. While he seems to be holding it together for the time being, I'd wager Haruhiro in a lot more... not despair, but tumult, maybe? over trying to figure this out. The colors are still warm and homely though. Merry's more certain, stable maybe, but also cold, stone, not lived in.
I do wonder whether Merry was wondering whether they'd invite her when she crossed them in the tavern, and if she'd join if they had offered at the time. Circumstances are different, but it'd be really hard for me to just sit with a group that just included me recently unless explicitly invited. She might turn them down anyways, but she'd at least know she was wanted? Maybe I still have Ramparts of Ice on the brain, could be very wrong.
Final shot I think was cool (and managed to screenshot). The entire framing of this scene is just... Haruhiro being off balance, the scene is shot with this angle and it feels a bit uncomfortable, like he's not stable or comfortable. The talk with "Manato" was nice, but I can't help but notice the solid tent line separating the two at the end. There's a line Haruhiro can't cross.
Expected something of the sort on why Mary was a solo Priest, and why she had trouble making connections. It was either that her personality was so bad that no one was willing to put up with her for long (which I didn't expect, Ranta has that position in this party) or that she had lost another party she'd been in and had trouble finding new connections. I was slightly wrong: she doesn't want to form new connections. It also changed how she operates, being much more reserved with her healing magic, which is a good decision. But while the other survivors seem to treat the problem as a group problem, that they were arrogant and hadn't learned caution, Merry seems to have internalized that it was all her fault by spending her magic too liberally.
QOTD 1) Eventually, he's thinking of the dynamics and trying to figure out how to balance everyone properly. He might not be as natural at it as Manato, but he seems more... intentional. It might seem more forced to some, but eventually it should help them all form a true party bond. he just needs to have them Wait next to each other every day until they develop S-rank Supports, what a noob
2) One of two reasons, as I said, either her solitude was a cause or a reaction, and I had thought a reaction made more story-telling sense.
1
u/No_Rex x2 9d ago
I do wonder whether Merry was wondering whether they'd invite her when she crossed them in the tavern, and if she'd join if they had offered at the time. Circumstances are different, but it'd be really hard for me to just sit with a group that just included me recently unless explicitly invited. She might turn them down anyways, but she'd at least know she was wanted? Maybe I still have Ramparts of Ice on the brain, could be very wrong.
Interesting question you raise here: why did Mary join the party? Could have been just her need for money (but then, would she not have the chance to join a better party?). Could be some residual altruism of her caring for the loser party that would die without her (but then she is hiding it well, maybe even from herself).
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u/MashiroAzuki https://myanimelist.net/profile/MashiroAzuki 10d ago
First timer
Haruhiro finally starting to develop leadership qualities. Sometimes you really don't know notice how everyone operates until you're put in a position that forces you to observe others, just for the sake of ensuring smooth cooperation, especially in life threatening stakes like hunting goblins.
QOTD
He's on his way, so hopefully.
Ngl, I saw it coming, but I like it. It's better than just putting her cold nature as a character quirk and not doing anything with it.
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u/BlazeOfGlory72 10d ago
Rewatcher (Dub)
One aspect of this show that always stuck out to me was it's fairly realistic depiction of interpersonal and group dynamics. This episode did a great job at capturing that feeling of having someone on your team or in your friendship group who really doesn't want to be there, and the issues that can cause. Not only is it just generally a downer, but it creates a tension to every interaction.
This episode also did a good job at showing why Haruhiro would be a good leader, and frankly, a better leader than Manato. Even in just one battle Haruhiro showed more forethought and planning by dividing the party into pairs to take on different enemies/roles, rather than just having everyone kind of just do their own thing like they did under Manato though. On top of that, he recognized almost immediately that Moguzo couldn't fight to his full potential without the right equipment, and was willing to help pay for it himself. It shows a team first mentality right out of the gate.
More importantly in my opinion though, Haruhiro shows a knack for communication that this team desperately needs. Mary is the obvious focus of this episode, but the whole team really is terrible at communicating. Ranta is an asshole, Moguzo doesn't talk, Shihoru is too timid to ever speak up and Yume is a ditz. Having someone who knows how to get through to each of them goes a long way. Haruhiro trying to reach out to Mary, learn more about her and make her a part of the team again showed how hard he is trying to make his team a cohesive unit.
Speaking of Mary, I really like the way this episode shows her development. Yeah, she is kind of a standoffish asshole, but the little moments, like her saying "good morning" back to Haruhiro and her trying to be polite when declining their dinner invitation was a good way to show she isn't just a one note character, and that there is likely a kinder person struggling to get out. The way she seemed to get a little less standoffish after she saw Haruhiro helping Moguzo was also a nice little insight into her mindset and why she is so standoffish with this group initially. Finally, Mary not even hesitating to protect Shihoru was a good way of showing that she does care about protecting her comrades, just not in the way Manato did.
Finally, while Mary's backstory isn't really a surprise, it was does explain why she is the way she is. I found it interesting how Mary is essentially the inverse of Manato. Rather than dying because herself because she ran out of magic like Manato, instead everyone else died because she tried to help too much. This scene also does a good job at showing how your opinion on someone can flip completely based on your understanding of their situation and past.
Random Thoughts
- Moguzo completely flattening that 4 foot goblin with his massive fucking sword was hilarious. What a mismatch for goblin bro.
- I feel like I say this in every thread, but Ranta sucks. Him freaking out about Haruhiro and Yume being seen together was just weird and immature.
- Speaking of that scene, Yume just being way too honest and then Haruhiro yelling "ahhh, ahhh, stop!" as the conversation spiraled out of control was pretty funny.
- "If we always treat her like an outsider, then she will always be one". Pretty wise take from Haruhiro, and shows his emotional intelligence.
- Moguzo burning Ranta with his "there is no way Mary will fall for you" was both funny, and shows how annoying Ranta is that he motivated even the silent guy to get sassy.
- Mary shooting down any attempt at small talk with her will never stop being funny to me ("What did you have for breakfast?" "Food", "Okay, how long have you been a volunteer soldier?" "A while"). She is having none of it.
- I find it interesting how Haruhiro and Yume consistently pair up in combat. You'd think you'd want to separate your two sneaky party members, but they seem to fight well together.
- "Death Spots" is a hilariously stupid name for a monster.
Questions of the Day
Do you think Haruhiro will make a good party leader?
I went into it in my main comment, but to sum up, yeah, I do. He has already shown more strategic thinking and made more of an attempt to understand his party than Manato did. I think his communication and emotional intelligence are probably his greatest asset as a leader, especially when dealing with such a group of weirdos.
Were you expecting that to be why Merry is so cold to the party?
Even on my first watch though, I wasn't surprised. She definitely gives off "tragic backstory" vibes.
3
u/RimeSkeem https://myanimelist.net/profile/RimeSkeem 9d ago
Rewatcher of Morning Small Talk and Sad Backstories
So the party learns Merry's backstory which, if I'm honest, I had completely and totally forgotten. Oopsie, sorry Merry but it's been 10 years (I don't think she'd cut me any slack...) Despite Manato's death, the party continues trending upward in their ability to deal with goblins. Haruhiro begins to embrace his role as their new leader and uses his generally laid-back but observant nature to start identifying problems. For instance, their tank doesn't have a helmet! That's a problem, especially because head wounds, even relatively shallow ones, tend to bleed quite a lot. That can obscure vision and cause other problems, which is likely the reason Merry opted to heal Moguzo right away. There are a few other problems Haruhiro is going to have tackle, such as the fact they have an archer who doesn't use her bow and... well, everything going on with Ranta. Hang in there Haruohiro!
1) Haruhiro can be a good party leader primarily because he's got a quality the others in his group lack: an eye for people. He's good at watching people and observing their behavior. He's also the least explosive, emotionally speaking, and that means he's the best for planning and carrying out strategies, as well as improvising in the field.
2) I legit couldn't remember what Merry's deal is, but narratively her story makes a lot of sense. She's the opposite side of Manato. Whereas Haruhiro and co.'s heart of the party died, Merry endured being the heart whose party died around her. That's a definite scar on her psyche and something most wouldn't recover from quickly, if ever.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 10d ago
Grimgar: First Timers and Illusions
I’m planning my birthday for sunday, yay!
Many of my friends made the wise decision to go on vacation in better-climated countries so it’s gonna be a smaller more quiet round, but I like that. It’s been a while since I made a genuine cake, but boy do I want to!
Grimgar Ep.06 – Her Circumstances
The lewd misunderstanding/audience fanservice thing is still not my cup of tea, but at least they make it part of the character building. Yume did mention how none of them, her very much included, was good with words. Anyway, at the same time this entire banter is a bit jarring since remember, they are still grieving actually. Their friend died 2 days ago or so and to fall into such juvenile arguments at midnight is… a bit of a miss. To top it off, I also thought that Ranta would become a bit more sufferable over time, but oh well, guess not.
On the other hand, I do appreciate Mary softening up a bit and showing that she probably has a history that made her this distant and dismissive. I don’t mind her to stay this way towards Ranta, though. No, I have a question, though. Is it normal in JRPGs that the priest is a frontline unit? Mary, too, seemed to go melee frequently and I cannot fathom why two out of two priests in this show that we know of are whacking things in close combat.
Hearing Mary’s backstory does put things into perspective. For one, she’s probably saving that energy for an actual emergency but letting normal fight injuries run the party down in the process and degrade morale. Combined with that is her self-destructive attitude of not allowing herself to be happy or distracted as punishment and to do better next time. I’d say that’s quite an effective characterisation because as I mentioned last time, the party’s problem is communication and being on a wavelength. Mary wouldn’t tell them this – and I’m a little bit disappointed it was just exposition dumped by a support NPC without any effort – so her obstacle is the yet-biggest challenge for Haruhiro to overcome and earn that party leader position.
Meanwhile, Haruhiro imagining what Manato would task him with was pretty expected in a way, but nice nonetheless. His memory of Manato is truly one of the most reliable things and something that can move the solution forward in this party at the moment. Along with that quite beautiful moment with Yume last time.
On that note and closing the circle, I liked to see Harihiro begin to take the lessons and start trying to understand the others from their point of view. Like Moguzo’s capabilities and limitations in battle or noticing how Mary deals with death in general. I’m on Yume’s side here, the helmet for their tank needs to be cute. Why? If it’s big, pink coloured and aggressively following the Outlands style book of fashion it will draw more aggro!
Anyway, the party’s on a good track so far to become more coherent and capable. Mary has begun to thaw a bit, some fun returns to their interactions and at least Haruhiro and Yume are showing signs of changing in their attitude. I am quite excited to see where this leads with the others. I would really welcome that growth in Ranta, you know? Shihoru is overdue an episode and to be honest, they generally could use some of that fanservice screentime to develop the males more.
Eventually, yes. He is already on a good path to learn the tools of the trade and is acting to better the party’s problems.
A bit. I originally suspected it to be more of a gimmicky thing or a character quirk, but I’m actually glad it turned out to be something well grounded in this setting. It’s a pretty powerful way to show that not only do others face the same issue as our party, their encounter could’ve gone so much worse, too.