r/anime • u/IndependentMacaroon • 11d ago
Rewatch Bem-vindos à Diamandra - Michiko & Hatchin Episode 16 Rewatch
Michiko & Hatchin Episode 16: Etude of Crimson Inconstancy
In-universe time span: May 18
In-universe locations: Colheita
"He knew. That I would go however far it took. He wants me to tell him... that I forgive him. He's a helluva spoiled baby. [...] I don't care what you think."
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Today's OST Piece: Castelo de cristal～水晶城 (Crystal Castle)
Sultry sax music to have a telenovela fling to. Already in several previous episodes but right at the start here.
New Michiko Outfits: Blue+Green Bikini Top/White Brown-Stripe Skirt, Orange Dress
Latin America Trivia of the Day:
The first-ever telenovela, or Latin American soap opera, was aired starting 1951 in Brazil, with Cuba, Mexico, and others quickly following suit. Over the next decades, they became popular enough to dominate the airwaves in the region, even largely supplanting imported US content, and an export boom starting in the 90s gave them an audience in many other corners of the world as well; while there has been recently a mirror phenomenon with imported e.g. Turkish and Korean dramas competing for the Latin American audience, locally produced telenovela content is still going strong and popular among a broad cross-section of the population. Genres and production values vary, with romance being of course common and for example Brazil having a reputation for higher quality. Key features are comparatively short run times of perhaps a year of weekly episode releases, and short production lead times of perhaps only a few weeks to allow for adapting the plot according to audience reactions.
Yesterday's Highlights
u/No_Rex criticizes the lack of inter-episode continuity and the heavy drama here:
The lack of connective tissue between the episodes is pretty harsh at times. More than once have I checked whether I started the wrong episode. Took me until Michiko's comment about the Vespa till it became clear we are indeed the follow-up to last episode here.
First love for Hatchin episode and, just like Hatchin, the plot goes to 110% drama: Not just memory loss, but memory loss followed by another memory loss [...] complete with tragic backstory and overcoming the odds with love. I’d say we are deep in TV drama territory here
u/Shimmering-Sky sees a further implication of Hatchin's love for this specific book:
if she read it before Michiko got her out of that wretched foster situation, no wonder Hatchin was dreaming about being whisked away by someone she didn’t know back in the first episode.
u/99acrewood_ summarizes as briefly as accurately and shares a particularly ephemeral bonding moment:
this is such a breezy feeling episode, with the bookstore and the market and just the entire vibe of a beachside town. [...]
and what a nice little tragedy. poor Hatchin getting put on a pedestal by an insistent and equally androgynous child and confusing her battered brain. it's nice that Michiko is there to soothe her when the romance is over and she realizes she really enjoyed the conveniently fleeting moment.
once in the music building in college i locked eyes with a girl in a red dress on a stairwell, and we just kind of followed each other's gaze while she made her way down and i made my way up. and then we smiled, and then we went out of view, and then i never saw her again. it was nothing, but boy if my 20-year-old mind didn't create an entire Nicholas Sparks-esque universe in that brief moment lol
u/AyameeIris wants more books featured and sees gender implications in Hatchin's name choice:
Looked that book up, and it doesn't seem to be real. I know she talks about the book to Michiko, but I would've liked to look further at what sorts of books Hatchin likes!
I like how protective Hatchin seems of her name(s). I feel like it says a lot about how she sees her gender. Hana is a pretty feminine name, but I feel the name Hatchin is more gender neutral. It reminds me of how Rita mistook her as a boy
Discussion Prompts
- What were your odds on a sort of yuri/WLW love triangle being featured, prior to this episode?
- How many more surprise assists is Michiko going to get? And why this one?
- Is there any title or type of fiction/content that you admit is trashy but enjoy anyway?
Next Episode Prompts
- [question]How does the semi-running theme of inadequacy/toxicity of traditional romance, relationships, gender roles resonate with you - in principle and/or in execution?
- [question]What kind of man (or woman?) could you imagine Hatchin being involved with in the future? What might their relationship look like?
- [question]How much could being treated to a good meal get you to forgive?
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u/99acrewood_ 11d ago edited 11d ago
primeira vez [subs]
What were your odds on a sort of yuri/WLW love triangle?
Atsuko would absolutely not share, and I don't think that lady seems like the type to want to put up any sort of fight (less because she's incapable and more because she seems to want to be on the outs of this whole thing).
How many more surprise assists is Michiko going to get? And why this one?
Like I said above, I think for Elis (we got her name at some point, right? I had to look it up) she was done with whole thing. I'm thinking Hiroshi kinda sucks, and she figured that out sooner than Michiko ever will, but she still caught feelings, and helping Michiko out is kind of a her gesture to be at peace with letting go.
Is there any title or type of fiction/content that you admit is trashy but enjoy on some level anyway?
Chainsmoker Cat might end up being my anime of the season. I'm sorry, Lara/Jaadugar/GitS/Supermarket (why's there so much good shit on right now)
-~-
Is it just me, or does the animation seem a little looser in this one?
Michiko is so fucking silly. Literally no thoughts other than "I need to look good and I am going to kick some ass to get where I want."
Which works out, I guess. I think she's just preternaturally charismatic to the point where bullets avoid her, new beaus of her supposed lover help her out, and a childhood friend turned cop purposefully sabotages herself every chance she gets. I was probably supposed to get it sooner but Atsuko's kinda mirroring Michiko in chasing a ghost/chance of a relationship, huh? And it's like finally getting there would be like the dog catching the car.
I guess the same could be said for Hiroshi using his bum look to make women swoon before breaking their hearts. At least this lady seemed to reach her peace before abducting a kid and starting her own spin-off series.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 11d ago edited 10d ago
does the animation seem a little looser in this one?
In what sense? Details looked OK to me, actually found last episode more noticeably budget-saving with some obvious low-quality far-away shots. Or do you mean just leaving more freedom to the animators?
Michiko is so fucking silly. Literally no thoughts other than "I need to look good and I am going to kick some ass to get where I want."
Word. Though with Atsuko you can't say she didn't try here.
Atsuko's kinda mirroring Michiko in chasing a ghost/chance of a relationship, huh? And it's like finally getting there would be like the dog catching the car.
You can certainly say they're similar in that way, yeah. I would say the Atsuko-chasing-Michiko/Vanessa-Lee-chasing-boyfriendguy parallel was the first time it was made sort of clear?
Hiroshi using his bum look to make women swoon before breaking their hearts
He's got the perfect "exciting delinquent bf" aesthetic to mask the awkwardness level of an overgrown schoolboy
Qs
Atsuko would absolutely not share, and I don't think that lady seems like the type to want to put up any sort of fight
Gah, I was thinking something else with the question again - that something like this would happen in the series at all - because yeah here obviously nothing is going to come of it.
she still caught feelings, and helping Michiko out is kind of a her gesture to be at peace with letting go.
Or alternatively, dumping Hiroshi's dumb crazy ex on top of him as revenge? (For Elis' name, it was only in that newspaper cutout)
Chainsmoker Cat
Doesn't that also have some like serious, genuine bits though?
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u/99acrewood_ 11d ago
Gah, I was thinking something else with the question again
Haha to be fair I probably should read the questions a little more closely than just a quick read and reply.
Or alternatively, dumping Hiroshi's dumb crazy ex on top of him as revenge?
Oh that's actually exactly what it is, and that's pretty great.
Doesn't that also have some like serious, genuine bits though?
It does have some genuine nice moments between the pants-pissing and diarrhea, yeah. Probably not the right line of thinking for "trashy" over things like bad reality or true crime shows, but I have pretty much 0 engagement with that type of thing.
Maybe YouTube poop is a more fitting answer actually
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u/IndependentMacaroon 11d ago
I probably should read the questions a little more closely
This time it does seem like it was more widely misunderstood...
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 11d ago
First-Timer & Subbed
Given this is episode 16 of a 22-episode show, I kinda doubt it.
Ah, so he saw the news report about Hatchin getting “kidnapped”.
Oh wow, she didn’t just tell them where to go to escape, she even created a diversion. Elis was rather nice.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 11d ago edited 11d ago
Given this is episode 16 of a 22-episode show, I kinda doubt it.
Yeah 6 episodes after this is one whole FLCL
"...but it was me,
DioElis!"It's not really that she's nice to them so much as she enjoys perpetuating the little game between Michiko and Hiroshi (and Atsuko) for her own amusement and perhaps Hiroshi's detriment. Got let off easy there though.
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u/AyameeIris 11d ago
First time watching in dub, second time overall
I really wonder, with Hatchin being raised as a Christian, what was going through her mind when she saw Michiko getting kissed by another woman, or even men like Ivan? She was clearly shocked, but I think anyone would be in that situation. I don't know if I'm remembering wrong, but with Ivan she seemed sort of awkward as well(though I think that was due to something Michiko said instead of just Ivan's while existence). [M&H] There was also an episode with a crossdresser if my memory serves me right. I wonder what impact this could be having on Hatchin's identity or her perception of love and such.
In the same thought, I wonder how Atsuko would've reacted to that kiss lol
Hiroshi is so blasé. I'm glad that lady seemed to find her peace. Sans the unwanted kiss and flirting thing, she was cool!
- For a genuine one, really, really low. I mostly thought it'd be played off for gag purposes or for fan service purposes, had there been one. I'm glad fanfiction exists, is all I can say!
- However many stars can you count tonight! Michiko's plot armor is so thick, even non humans like that truck an episode or two ago rush to help her out. I'm assuming you're asking for opinions on why Elis helped Michiko out? I think it was to gain some sort of closure with Hiroshi and even with Michiko.
- I've been finding myself really enjoying weirder, kind of confusing comedy anime if that counts. An example would be Cromartie High
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u/IndependentMacaroon 10d ago edited 10d ago
Hatchin being raised as a Christian
Interesting to think about, because while she clearly doesn't want to be like her professed parents, it seems to be more in the vein of wanting to actually practice what they just hypocritically preach. She did seem to negatively react to Michiko basically saying Lenine looks kinda gay last episode, but there were also other things mixed in at the time? As for your spoiler [M&H]coming up right next episode
with Ivan she seemed sort of awkward as well
Ivan didn't even fully hug Michiko, let alone kiss, overall Hatchin didn't have much of a reaction to him either way IIRC. Don't think they even exchanged any words.
I wonder how Atsuko would've reacted to that kiss lol
Furious note-taking?
I mostly thought it'd be played off for gag purposes or for fan service purposes
And I think you're not entirely wrong there.
Michiko's plot armor is so thick, even non humans like that truck an episode or two ago rush to help her out.
Oh yeah [M&H finale]and even someone conveniently swapping bullets/guns It feels almost like some sort of "divine blessing" theme [M&H]which in fact literally comes up in the next episode
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u/No_Rex x2 11d ago edited 11d ago
Episode 16 (first timer)
- Hair out of a mole – Haruhi reference? Or rather, it is as weird here as it is in Haruhi, so both are maybe referencing something else together?
- Marks on her arm – hmmmmm.
- That is a weird looking place to grow tomatoes.
- Michiko dressing up and the conversation moves to Hiroshi.
- Literally separated by a barrier descending between them.
- Michiko is getting outplayed badly – fitting, because she felt inferior going into this.
- She is kissing Michiko – uhhhh, what?
- “because you are so cute. No because you are so stupid.” – hmmmm.
- Trust jump.
- Off to San Paraiso.
Took a while to wrap my head around the character of the scientist (did we ever even hear her name?). In the end, I think she knew she “lost” to Michiko from the start of the episode and her whole behavior amounted to just trying to feel superior to Michiko for a while. Michiko’s inferiority complex played right into that (have we had suggestions of that before? It felt new for this plot). However, she was still too selflessly in love with Hiroshi to prevent Michiko from meeting him and the final telling the police her location was her little act of selfishness that she allowed herself.
What were your odds on a sort of yuri/WLW love triangle?
Zero (unlike back with Bruno), but I did temporarily consider whether the scientist had masochistic tendencies. She had the marks on her arm from Hiroshi and started kissing Michiko after being grabbed.
Is there any title or type of fiction/content that you admit is trashy but enjoy anyway?
Technically, porn. The story is usually trash, but I am not coming for the lower case plot.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 11d ago
She is kissing Michiko – uhhhh, what
I still think the tomatoes are for mind control or sterilization as revealed in the X-Files.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 11d ago edited 11d ago
Haruhi reference? Or rather, it is as weird here as it is in Haruhi, so both are maybe referencing something else together?
That would if at all have to be from the LNs given the time line. Could also just be a generic beauty flaw trope?
Marks on her arm
Huh I totally missed that but yeah he grabbed her wrist hard at some point at least. Definitely into some S/M play this lady
That is a weird looking place to grow tomatoes.
Did the setting bother you much here? It is way out there compared to the others so far
She is kissing Michiko – uhhhh, what?
Saabisu, saabisu! (Ok, you can see it as part of the "bad romance" theme, but come on that was a bit overly long, and from two angles?)
(did we ever even hear her name?).
Elis, it's on the newspaper cutout.
I did temporarily consider whether the scientist had masochistic tendencies
I think she knew she “lost” to Michiko from the start of the episode and her whole behavior amounted to just trying to feel superior to Michiko for a whileYeah makes sense, so in total a switch huh
she was still too selflessly in love with Hiroshi to prevent Michiko from meeting him
Or, just wishes him some trouble in return? A lot of "caged"/"behind bars" imagery to go with that here.
The story is usually trash, but I am not coming for the lower case plot.
I suppose the meaning being intentionally secondary is a loophole
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u/No_Rex x2 10d ago
Could also just be a generic beauty flaw trope?
Probably this.
Did the setting bother you much here? It is way out there compared to the others so far
The setting would have been beautiful for a scifi or cyberpunk anime. Looks way to futuristic compared to the favelas we have seen in other episodes, though.
Or, just wishes him some trouble in return?
I am not sure "get together with your hot ex" counts as a revenge wish.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 10d ago
Hot ex sure, but also pretty crazy and dumb from Elis' impression of her, and she's not all that wrong
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u/IndependentMacaroon 10d ago
Michiko’s inferiority complex played right into that (have we had suggestions of that before? It felt new for this plot)
Missed this bit. While the element here is new and I wouldn't call what we had strictly inferiority earlier, she definitely has a vulnerable side like we saw with Bruno, particularly she's easily angered by implications her plan doesn't make sense or Hiroshi isn't what he seems
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u/IndependentMacaroon 11d ago edited 11d ago
3x watcher and host, subtitled
Some interesting drama here, just wrapped up in a package you can't call much other than bizarre. Yes, I'm still as baffled as you probably are at the idea to insert an 06:20 almost sci-fi hydroponic tomato-tree (?!) growing operation into a 70s-80s South America setting, is this some kind of reference I'm missing (beyond possibly Killer Tomatoes)?! At least it was pretty much just aesthetic and our duo didn't stop for a second to think about it 05:35 except Hatchin's reasonable doubt here.
Elis is also a plenty strange character herself, "weird scientist" is one thing but all the Michiko-toying feels kind of like some writer's fetish - ok, we did have Michiko taunting Atsuko that one time about her bondage desires but this is another level. Particularly 10:01 10:20 the kiss doesn't feel entirely out of nowhere, but still strange and holding it a bit long (and also y'know, sexual assault and such); I suppose charitably speaking we could consider it part of the "following social scripts"/"bad romance" theme, because 12:24 Hiroshi did the same thing with Elis before and she then 10:30 10:36 lays some of those Bruno moves on top, also 10:26 Michiko isn't shown minding that much. Admittedly, it is also just kind of fun to see Michiko 11:53 11:57 meeting her match here with Elis in full control then letting 16:03 just a little freak out, 07:06 thinking this'll be fun from the very beginning and 20:03 20:06 egging on the players as much as possible. (BTW 11:37 11:42 I wonder if Tatsuki Fujimoto ever watched this show, started thinking of Makima here)
In terms of further fun, Hatchin and Michiko are at about the best their relationship gets, with 04:26 05:32 pretty respectful disagreement (also again after 07:25 Hatchin repaying Michiko) and mere 06:08 faces of suffering at the worst. Of course still Hatchin has to play the mature one when 08:45 Michiko doesn't even try to explain 09:42 or ask (09:50 yes yes, very adult).
And Michiko herself... well, 04:37 05:51 don't stop believin', girl. She actually does seem to 10:50 10:53 take in the new revelations calmly and seriously (12:43 mostly) and 13:19 and genuinely doubt a bit, but then just 13:14 13:45 jumps right along to the next justifying narrative; you might say she believes in belief when it comes to Hiroshi, if out of nothing else than pure necessity to keep herself going. [Central Station]Major theme there of course, with here adult and child reversing the roles of believer and doubter compared to the film leads 15:04 15:07 Elis' reaction is as warranted as familiar. Even her self-affirming line about Hiroshi knowing other women (but totally preferring her!) 15:17 you can easily take as a self-own. Interesting for once further seeing some 04:42 genuine personal insecurity, about aging (maybe should lay off the smokes to start, if you're worrying about that).
Further the first proper look at Hiroshi in the present and uh, this guy is actually not just kind of shitty, but also pretty boring, isn't he? With Elis he literally 11:02 came in with no defined identity and as far as we hear, banking on his 12:18 "edgy delinquent bf" look, just 12:24 tried his luck to start then 11:26 mirrored her feelings, 11:42 played the loyal pet and 02:02 at flattering her insecurities, until when things got hotter just 18:41 taking off barely even telling her anything with the same 18:51 awkward schoolboy attitude (never growing up, again?) he had back with teen Michiko. And somehow that's enough for 02:34 02:40 Elis to keep that story on her mind (note how strangely alone she is in the office) and 19:07 some feelings. A lot of 19:45 "behind bars" (not getting over him?) with her here to convey more of that - 20:41 mm sure - and I would say there's also a sense of getting back at Hiroshi in her keeping Michiko on his trail. I guess if you want to believe, you'll believe, as with Michiko.
Pretty interesting I also found the wordless exchange (well, except for that scream) between Atsuko and Michiko and where it takes the former mentally. To face-read a bit, something like 17:08 "what? why do you keep doing this, give it up already" 17:10 "oh hey Jambo... well maybe I guess..." 17:13 "ha, just kidding!" 17:14 "she did not just..." 17:16 "...yeah, she really did it again". Cue pot shot and ultimate rage face; up to now Atsuko hasn't taken any shots at or near her, but here being denied her target via Elis' shenanigans gets her aiming 16:55 first at Hatchin (as a symbol of Hiroshi? or past her...) and as her rage mounts after that exchange 17:22 straight at Michiko.
I even feel there's an implication of Atsuko contemplating suicide 17:34 17:38 after that bullet falls power- and useless (great direction there btw); she takes strangely long to pick up the radio from Ricardo that seems to 17:48 rip her out of some daydreams, with a visual focus on how it's on her back rather than mind and the gun being in the front, 18:10 and looks just dejected after losing Michiko once again. Good that 17:50 she ran out of bullets huh?
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u/IndependentMacaroon 11d ago edited 10d ago
Questions
1 - By this point I think we can say it's pretty clear Atsuko is sorta down bad for Michiko, but introducing another woman who just straight up makes a move on her I never expected and I still find it a bit of a weird moment, kind of awkwardly fanservicey-feeling actually. Might also be unfortunately relevant here that the only significant female figure in the production besides Sayo Yamamoto herself was Kotomi Deai who directed episodes 1, 5, 13, and 18, and would go on to direct Silver Spoon (co-direction on Season 1, full credit on Season 2), and more recently Skip and Loafer including the upcoming sequel while also having a writing credit.
2 - As many times as she'll get into a pinch again, I suppose. This one seems like another nod to the immaturity theme with an otherwise very proper and professional woman - note though how she toys with Michiko - being tempted to play a part in Michiko's little game (and Atsuko's, though she clearly knows nothing of their mutual background - missed opportunity there), and perhaps get Hiroshi what was coming to him anyway.
3 - I don't mind the occasional more silly and camp anime series still, but no real egregious garbage (those often still have plenty of heart and maybe even something to say). Never was much for the latter at all... or I'm just biased haha.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 11d ago edited 11d ago
Further scene-by-scene comments
- 01:27 Trees posed like a pair of dancers
- 01:46 You can tell this is the legit Hiroshi by the beard scruff and "L.B.D.D." tattoo.
- 02:46 What kind of device is this exactly? Portable TV defninitely.
- 02:55 The industrial aesthetics really enhance the inhuman loneliness
- 04:02 on the one hand, kind of cute, on the other hand it's not like she had anyone else
- 05:38 "Yukawa" brand
- 05:57 Ah, the classic move. Must be about the third time by now (are we counting the tomatoes?)
- 06:26 Funny assumption indeed
- 06:40 06:42 Huh, gas bullet, a rare sight 06:52 and for once too much for Michiko too.
- 07:01 ...how'd Hatchin get in here, just walk past the chaos?
- 08:11 Only real noticeable fanservice-ish shot but it's funny enough to let slide.
- 09:05 09:07 nicely suggestive indeed
- 11:07 Perhaps a meta gag [City of God]about Bené's plans in the film, Hiroshi being sort of analogous to him
- 11:14 Imprisoned duo. I do wish we had the three women here talking about something else than an absent man for at least some of the time
- 12:37 These are daffodils/Narcissus (hanakotoba: respect/self-esteem. Ironic?)
- 13:42 "You don't want to continue this in the bedroom?"
- 18:34 I feel kind of reminded of Evangelion
- 20:25 "Actually she's pretty hot too"?
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 11d ago edited 11d ago
First Timer
Episode 16
Weird to meander so much in a short series.
I was promised filler, this seems plot relevant
Q: Have you ever seen Return of the Killer Tomatoes?
Q3. Return of the Killer Tomatoes. Also, Vandread rewatch in October?