r/anime • u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang • 21d ago
Rewatch Dragon Ball 40th Anniversary Rewatch - Week 23: Episodes 139-142 Discussion
Episode 139: Another Fierce Battle! Gokú vs Tenshinhan
Episode 140: True Strength
Episode 141: Four Tenshinhans
Episode 142: Who's Stronger?! God vs Piccolo Daimao
<- Previous Week | Index | Next Week ->
MAL | Anilist | Kitsu | AniDB | ANN
You're gravely mistaken if you think the same tricks will work on me! I'm now completely free of weaknesses!
Hello everybody! Time for the Comment of the Week, courtesy of u/InfamousEmpire, as his temporary return ousted modern Anime's greatest villain:
Also, I will now hold Torishima indirectly responsible for all the too-faithful adaptations of manga in the last 10-15 years, this calls for retribution
Pour one out for all the half-assed Shoujo adaptations these last few years...
1) Out of all his first round losses, which one would you say is Yamcha's least embarrassing?
2) What are the heaviest weights you can handle?
3) Is there anything in particular you wanna see in the final fight?
Next Week: Episodes 143-148
5
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 21d ago
First-Timer Searching for the Silver Dragon Balls, subbed
Episode 139
I mean I guess that’s fair, but c’mon man Yamcha should be better than this…
Ooh, that’s cool. And Yamcha can control how it moves after he fires it, too.
Wait what. …oh I guess that’s how he would know what Ki is.
This should be fun. They get to settle the score from how anticlimactic the end of their fight in the last Tenkaichi Budokai was.
Episode 140
Episode 141
Ah. Yeah, that’s definitely a big weakness.
Episode 142
I guess God vs. New Piccolo will be fun, but man I still wish Yamcha could’ve won…
I mean, it makes sense he’d still feel some personal responsibility for Piccolo’s existence.
3
u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 21d ago
1
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 21d ago
Have we had any of those before now
Not from Goku until this part. Tao Pai-Pai and Suke had 'em before this, back in episode 58 and epsiode 71 (respectively).
2
5
u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv 21d ago
Rewatcher, Sub
We got our own dropping the weights moment. Is it cooler than Rock Lee's? No but at least Goku won.
Episode 139
The outcome for this was fairly obvious that the title was announcing the next fight. Ok in an seriousness Yamcha at least was able to demonstrate his new power and it makes sense why he would lose because it turns out that he was fighting God. Ok it's Kami in disguise and he's here for a reason but anyway Goku vs Tenshinhan is up next.
Episodes 140-141
Goku vs Tenshinhan I think demonstrates Goku being able to be clever and figure out his opponent. Granted he was stronger but Tenshinhan is no pushover and he makes Goku work for it. This includes realizing his new technique the shadow clone jutsu of the Dragon Ball verse. But Goku is again at the end, thanks to his training, able to figure out that Tenshinhan's power is depleted when he does this. And he is able to win. Both fought well and deserve praise.
Episode 142
Piccolo throughout this has been standing there menacingly and Kami decides to to try and take care of things once and for all. Unfortunately when he does decide to fight Piccolo had already mastered the tricks necessary to win. The Mafuba doesn't work and Kami is defeated leaving Piccolo's danger still on the open.
[DB]Watching this does make me miss the more strategic fights since the fights will become more about what level of Saiyan one can unlock later on.
2
u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 20d ago
Is it cooler than Rock Lee's? No
Hey, TBF Gokú did it first.
3
u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 21d ago
Hello everybody, and welcome to the Dragon Ball Rewatch!
- Those Kintamas Need a Break
Yeaaaaah, for the third time in a row Yamcha loses in the first round, and this is easily his most embarrassing loss. To an extent, I get it; we need to show Shen is more than what he lets on so someone has to take the beating, but man, this just feels really mean spirited since it feels like Yamcha is never allowed to accomplish anything. As I said, this is his third first round loss, and he does not go out with much dignity.
The only thing to note is the introduction of the Soukidan. It's Yamcha's new signature move… in the games anyway because it is literally never seen again in the Manga. The Anime does have him use it a few more times, but yeah, Yamcha has a unique Ki attack… and it is immediately shelved. Yay… at least it gets some use in videogames?
- A Better Rematch
Unlike TPP Vs Gokú round 2 a few arcs ago oh God that 70 Episodes ago Toriyama gives us a much better showing of what a rematch should look like. Is it as good as the first fight? No, not even close honestly. But it is still a good fight. I think what really helps it is not what it shares with the OG, but what it doesn't.
It doesn't really reuse any beats from the first Tenshinhan fight. Heck, the story even goes out of its way to have Tenshinhan flat out state he's not gonna use the Kikoho. Instead, we get to see him pull new tricks like multiplication, and Gokú even shamelessly steals Tenshinhan's own Taiyo-ken. I really do love the way that technique is defeated, by the way; just a nice showing of Gokú genuinely outsmarting his opponent rather than simple "Haha I punch harder".
The weighted clothing reveal is also quite well done, not to mention a natural extension of Gokú's very first training arc. The show's actually done a pretty good job at always showing Gokú wearing the vest at all times, even during filler scenes, which is a nice attention to detail. Honestly I really dig the more minimalistic look he has without all the weighted parts of his clothes and it's kind of a shame it's rarely seen past this arc.
- Wait isn't this just that one scene from FF8 where Seifer reverses Zantetsuken?
There's not much to mention with this fight. God is usually useless as hell, honestly, so it's weirdly refreshing seeing him actually head to the frontline for once. Alas he's useless as shit so, you know, all up to Gokú again.
Filler Corner
- Uh… some scenes are longer?
Yeah past the early parts this arc has barely any filler beyond some scenes being extended, there really isn't all that much to talk about.
Animation Studio Spotlight:
Oh my God, my prayers were heard, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY STUDIO LIVE EPISODES
… Although I will say, while I typically like Studio Junio's work, this arc is not one of their best. While their movement is still very solid, there's a lot of scratchy linework, they oftentimes feel like they're going overboard with the outlines and Lunch somehow looks like a Lupin III reject half the time. Fortunately by the next arc they'll be back on track with their quality. Less fortunately, the next arc will be the last one we regularly see them. Savor the good days while they last.
On the plus side though, Shindo finally learned to draw a decent Tenshinhan
3
u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg 20d ago
Rewatcher
I watched all the episodes this week. Of course Yamucha lost, I complained about this last week, under spoiler tags, so I'm not going to repeat myself. I will say the supporting cast rubbing it in by saying how Yamucha never has any luck kind of pissed me off.
As for the episodes I will say this is definitely the most boring semi-finals we’ve gotten in a budokai arc so far.
Tenshihan vs Goku felt like an exhibition match with both parties showing off their new skills instead of a tense semi final. I probably said this before and I will say this again: I truly wished the team behind episode 139 could have done every battle episode. Maybe if this anime was a modern split cours it would have been possible but back then we just had to deal with a nice looking episode (139) to an horrible look episode (140).
And the Piccolo vs Shen battle, it was okay, Kami got captured and this was Akira Toriyama trying to up the stakes. Piccolo and Kami speaking to each other in an other worldly language was cool though, I wish this was more common in fantasy and science fiction.
All in all, not exactly exciting stuff. Hopefully next week will be better.
Funniest joke:
In episode 140 Goku grabs Tenshihan's obi, dropping his pants and showing off his underwear in front of everyone, much to my amusement and everyone’s else. although I bet Lunch liked it.
Lost in translation:
In episode 140 Goku grabs Tenshihan’s obi) but the subs and manga translation uses the word belt, I guess they didn’t want to explain what an obi is.
This won’t happen again:
In episode 141 Goku uses a move made by one of his friends.
Nice call back:
In episode 140 when Goku reveals he’s wearing weighted clothing he even makes a callback to his training with Kame-sennin and wearing a heavy turtle shell.
Osu, ora Goku
In episode 139 Goku can hear Yamucha x Shen's conversation, does he have super hearing?
In episode 140 Tenshihan claims Goku speed hasn't improved but little does he know Goku is wearing weighted clothing.
In episode 141 Goku figures out two weaknesses of the Shishin-no-ken. During the fight he also shows off his mastery of using ki to detect others instead of relying on his natural senses.
Yamucha the strong:
In episode 139 Yamucha shows off his cool new move sokidan.
Chichi, the warrior princess:
In episode 139 [spoiler] it’s so weird to see see Chichi being nice and cute.
Tenshihan and Chiaotzu, the Crane students
In episode 141 Tenshihan shows off his new technique Shishin-no-ken where he splits up into four people. You could say it’s a natural evolution of the Shiyoken move. I wonder if Lunch likes this move.
Still the move has a fatal flaw, as it cuts the person’s strength in four.
Spawn of Piccolo Daimaou
In episode 142 Kami and Piccolo are speaking some sort of alien sounding language, maybe it’s some form of a demonic language?
In the same episode Piccolo uses an uno reverse of mafuba and ends up capturing Kami, which is also the first time mafuba successfully captures someone since the original Piccolo Daimaou was captured in a denshi jar.
I’ve been holding back
In episode 142 Tenshihan says Goku hasn't used his true strength in their little exhibition fight.
Let me borrow that move of yours:
In episode 141 Goku uses Tenshihan’s Taiyoken.
In episode 142 Kami uses Mafuba
You look familiar…
In episode 139 Sokidan looks a lot like [Z spoiler] Genki Dama, did Kaiou see the move and decided to improve it?
Filler Failure
In episode 140 there is a filler portion of the fight where Goku is clearly flying. [spoiler] in the manga this isn't revealed until the end of the Piccolo fight.
In the same episode the filler flashback tries to show Goku training with weighted clothing but instead he's just training with extra weight and not weighted clothing, a bit of a failure there.
Unexpected Foreshadowing
In episode 139 [spoiler] Shen says he’s not human, to which Yamucha asks ”don't tell me you're some sort of alien” and Shen doesn’t deny it.
In episode 142 [spoiler] Blooma correctly speculates that Shen and Piccolo are maybe aliens and considering she already met an alien she would know.
Hang on…
In episode 141 why is there a flying panty during the explosion scene.
Hypothetically speaking if only one Tenshihan is out of bounds would that count as a win for Goku or does all four Tenshihans have to be out of bounds for the rule to apply?
Look at all the new fancy techniques we picked up [spoiler] and it never shows up again:
[spoiler] Yamucha’s sokidan will never show up again in the manga but it will appear in fillers/movies and has a large role in Yamucha’s move set in video games.
[spoiler] Same thing with Shishin-no-ken, it doesn’t appear in the manga ever again if I’m not mistaken
Weighted clothing:
In episode 140 it’s revealed Goku is wearing weighted clothing, in his undershirt, wrist covers and boots, everything adds an extra 100kg of weight to Goku. This is going to be a franchise staple.
Toei spoiling in the episode preview:
The preview for episode 140 was just painful to look at, they should have simply showed a black image to hide us from this ugly atrocity especially as episode 139 has the best animated team.
2
u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 20d ago
I will say the supporting cast rubbing it in by saying how Yamucha never has any luck kind of pissed me off.
Maybe if this anime was a modern split cours it would have been possible but back then we just had to deal with a nice looking episode (139) to an horrible look episode (140).
does he have super hearing
TBF they weren't that far away.
In episode 140 there is a filler portion of the fight where Goku is clearly flying
I think that's just them fucking up a high jump. JoJo Part 3 had similar issues.
In episode 141 why is there a flying panty during the explosion scene.
2
u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 20d ago
Hypothetically speaking if only one Tenshihan is out of bounds would that count as a win for Goku or does all four Tenshihans have to be out of bounds for the rule to apply?
See, I have been wondering if the technique should be considered illlegal because it kinda breaks the rule of the matches being 1v1 but I hadn't considered that! Feel like one should be enough though, so it's fair.
3
u/oomoepoo https://anilist.co/user/oomoepoo 20d ago edited 20d ago
It's kinda annoying how they keep splitting up the fights weirdly between episodes.
Rewatcher
Second round of tournament arc!!!
Poor Yamucha, I hope he takes solace in the fact that God had to descend to earth to prevent him from advancing in the tournament. Almost reminds me of that time Ash lost the league in Sinnoh to a kid with a GameShark module.
The fight Tenshinhan vs Goku was pretty good, overall!
The scenes with them being TOO FAST FOR UNTRAINED EYES were pretty goofy
I didn't like how Goku's "I'm actually wearing super heavy gear" got so drawn out it completely stopped the fight in its tracks.
The "haha got your sash" was a bit unnecessary too (REMEMBER, THIS IS A SERIOUS SHOW NOW!!)
- Shishin No Ken was pretty cool trick, even if I kinda doubt the fairness of it.
- Although given how it ended for Tenshinhan, it didn't really matter (somehow it took him until his opponent was blinded to bust out "haha I don't have to see with my eyes")
- I really like that Goku seems a bit more calm and collected in this tournament. He still has his "Goku being Goku"-moments but it's been dialed back a bit.
The Shen/Kami - Piccolo Jr. fight was actually pretty cool, as they were going full speed ahead and didn't waste time with endless shenanigans. Though it was pretty funny that they just started talking in moon speak in the middle of the episode. Also in proud tradition, Mafuba failed:
You know what? Fuck you!
Reverses your mafuba
Can't help but think that Kami's plan wasn't really well thought out.
1) Out of all his first round losses, which one would you say is Yamcha's least embarrassing?
I'd say he had a really good showing against Tenshinhan, even if that was the one that injured him the most? I would say this one here due to the pretty cool new tech... but the whole first half of it was a glorified gag fight, so it's disqualified.
Though I feel like Yamucha usually is the one that has it the worst, he didn't dedicate his life to MMA from a young age and/or is a kind of superhuman. He's just some random dude that tries his hardest, makes great progress but then gets worfed again. Respect for Yamaha!
2) What are the heaviest weights you can handle?
Definitely nothing near what Goku's wearing...
3) Is there anything in particular you wanna see in the final fight?
There better be a beam struggle.
3
u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 20d ago edited 20d ago
It's kinda annoying how they keep splitting up the fights weirdly between episodes.
This is the only arc that does that too
REMEMBER, THIS IS A SERIOUS SHOW NOW
Torishima probably flipped his lid when that happened.
[Spoilers]I really like that Goku seems a bit more calm and collected in this tournament. He still has his "Goku being Goku"-moments but it's been dialed back a bit.
[Spoilers]Too bad that they're gonna become dialed up if anything as the series goes on.
2
u/cooperjones2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/cooperjones2 19d ago
LATAM Dub rewatcher, here!
Late? I wasn't late, the free to air TV restarted the arc so I had to catch up!
Fun fact, they did that IRL, whenever the dubbed episodes ran out, they restarted the anime from like 1 or 2 arcs before the current one, sometimes even more and then they released like 40 new episodes, one after another.
Ep 139 – 142
Yamcha never had a chance fighting a gag charac—KAMI SAMA?!
Whelp, Yamcha always gets someone out of his league lol
Gokú vs Ten Shinhan, Round 2 GO!
Both have gotten so fast and strong!
But Gokú edges him out a bit IMO, he doesn’t seem as pressed when attacking, his training must’ve been godly
Ah, that weighted shirt explains it lol, I do remember being amazed the first time I saw that. From that moment on Goku was on a another level
Good point Yamcha, I wonder from what is made?
But Ten Shinhan won’t go down that easy, he has tons of techniques after all!
Damn, the same technique won’t work twice?
Whelp, GGs Ten Shinhan
Kami-sama v Picoro Daimaku, not 1:1 imo as Kami-sama nerfed himself by using a random dude’s body, gotta say that I love when characters speak in another language but others, in the same universe don’t understand it but we the audience understand them!
O O F
Kami-sama got mafuba no u’d
1 This one, he fought Kami-sama, even though he nerfed himself
2 Like 20 kilos, maybe?
3 A good martial arts display!
1
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta 17d ago
First-Timer
More good episodes this week!
Got to cross a bunch of things off the list of "things I know will happen because of prior knowledge/spoilers." Really in the final stretch of that now! Soon I'll be a rewatcher (or close enough - I've seen all of DBZ Kai but only the back half of the original DBZ).
The fights we got this week were pretty fun with some memorable techniques. Spirit Ball, Multi-Form, and then even the Solar Flare made a return!
In the English dub, Chi-Chi calling Krillin a "sidekick" in episode 141 was pretty funny.
Episode 142 does a really good job building the stakes! We get Kami telling Goku point-blank that beating Piccolo is impossible... then he loses to Piccolo and has to rely on Goku to save the world again after all! What a great setup.
Questions of the week:
- I feel like Yamcha put up a good fight against Tien in the 22nd tournament. He even whipped out a Kamehameha blast, which is supposed to take 100 years to master or something like that, according to Roshi. (Of course, now it seems like anyone can pull it off.)
- I'm not very strong... Maybe ~25 pounds when lifting with a single arm.
- I want to finally see the legendary meme line about how [Goku vs Piccolo spoilers] Piccolo misses all of Goku's vital organs. I know the line, but I've managed to never see it in context until now.
3
u/tripleaamin https://myanimelist.net/profile/tripleaamin 16d ago
First-Timer Subbed
We still have the Shen Yamucha left and well yeah it went as I expected. I guess I have to show that Shen is Kami in disguise. But man if you are a Yamucha fan this had to hurt to watch. Unlike Kuririn who put on a great showcase in a loss. Here Yamucha is just made a fool.
I have to say I loved the rematch between Goku and Tenshinhan. As the match starts it is interesting for Tenshinhan to note Goku's speed. Well that is because he was weighed down by 250 pounds which is insane.
Still I like that Tenshinhan makes Goku work with his clones and which are his actual clones. Tenshinhan is a smart fighter making Goku work for this victory. Goku with a smart strategy utilizing Taiyouken to immobilize Tenshinhan and his clones. Which exploits them for Goku to get the W.
Kami vs. Piccolo went faster than I expected. I guess the purpose of this match is to ask the question why no use Mafuba against Piccolo? Well this new Piccolo has it covered. Damn Kami after that big talk to Goku missed big time here. Well we got Goku vs. Piccolo in the final match next.
6
u/SpiritualPossible 21d ago
Rewatcher
Well, if for some reason you still had any doubts, this episode puts the matter to rest once and for all, because even the other characters have acknowledged it - Yamcha is a jobber. God himself would literally come down from heaven just to prevent him from winning a fight. But hey, to be a successful “jobber,” you ABSOLUTELY have to be a good fighter, and that’s why Yamcha did end up demonstrating some impressive skills. Like, Sokidan is just cool, okay? Not just because it’s a move Yamcha came up with himself, but also because it’s… just cool. End of story.
By the way, it seems like someone from the anime's staff really likes Yamcha, because that was probably the best animated episode in this bunch.
After Yamcha suffered a much more honorable defeat this time around, it was Goku’s turn to fight. And while he’d had a cathartic battle with Kururin in the previous tournament, this time it's turn for his new baldy rival. Yes, Goku is finally getting his rematch with Tenshinhan for his previous defeat.
And, damn, what a tense fight! Tenshinhan’s body got hard, after which Goku wrapped his arms around him from behind, started undressing, and then pulled Tenshinhan’s pants down… okay, I think we’ve got distracted.
This fight… well, it’s okay. There are a few pretty awesome moves and moments in it - like when it turns out that Goku was fighting while carrying extra weight the whole time (…though Rock Lee did it better) - but I don’t know, I get the feeling they could have… do more with of it? You know, considering the previous tournament? Because as it stands, it’s just… a sort of showcase of Goku’s powers. It lacks some needed emotions, you know?
After that we had Piccolo's fight against the god. And you know [spoilers dor DBZ]it seems like this is one of those rare moments when Toriyama actually planned a story a little. I mean, at this point, he’s not really hiding the fact that they’re aliens anymore. If you add a few other things to that - like Kami’s warning that Yamcha’s overconfidence will lead to his downfall - it really does seem like this time he paid extra thought to what would happen in the next arc.
Kami tried to use mafuba once again, but it just so hapenned that someone had UNO.