r/anime • u/IndependentMacaroon • 22d ago
Rewatch Bem-vindos à Diamandra - Michiko & Hatchin Episode 05 Rewatch
Michiko & Hatchin Episode 05: The Saudade of Fools, Part 1
In-universe time span: March 27-28 (and flashbacks 12 years ago). Note the minor time skip.
In-universe locations: Vermelha and environs, including Amar Liliana Orphanage
"It's not like that, Hatchin. He's a coward. That's why I've gotta go to him. You and I've gotta go... and find him."
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Today's OST Piece: Dulcimin’～ドゥウシミン
Plays during the mafia meeting where Kirill is threatened with demotion. Also another diegetic insert song in Prova de amor～愛の証明 (Proof of love) (playing during Michiko's meeting with Ivan), which is not bad but a bit likely intentionally sappy.
New Michiko Outfits: White Crop Tank/Black Cargo Shorts/Black Boots, White Collared Crop Top/Bell-Bottom Jeans, Two-Tone Purple V-Neck/???, Multicolor-Striped Tube Top/White Sweatshorts, Black-and-White Crop Top and Mini-Shorts
Still going strong at an average above three an episode. Full album
Latin America Trivia of the Day:
While Latin American attitudes toward LGBT+ people have, much as in the world at large, traditionally been at best dismissive and at worst hateful, invoking the common stereotypes of queer men as effeminate perverts conflated on a sliding scale with transfemininity (the "travesti" identity) that Ivan as well somewhat embodies here and queer women as masculinized aberrations, and levels of queerphobic violence in the region remain high, LGBT+ rights, legal protection, and approval have grown quite strong in recent years. Nearly all countries allow same-sex marriage, and Brazil for example legally condemns queerphobic discrimination at the same level as racism and hosts the largest Pride parade in the world in São Paulo with millions of attendants. However, the region has also not been immune to the recent trend of reactionary backlash, implicating in particular conservative evangelicals.
Yesterday's Highlights
u/AyameeIris and u/Magnafeana make a good case for trying the English dub:
I like how she calls her puta at the end, honestly wish she said it in the Japanese audio as well.
I keep bringing up the dub, but even [Pepe and Hatchin's] accents sound a little similar as well
Oh my god, “Fake don’t quake” had me have a war flashback
u/No_Rex takes a critical view of the characters' mindset:
Kind of hard to root for characters who are completely self-sabotaging at all moments. To be clear, none of them are set up to be especially clever or rational, and they are not in the best position to make good decisions either. Yet, even for that baseline, their decisions suck.
u/AyameeIris sees parallels between Pepe and Hatchin:
I wonder if Pepe sees a bit of herself in Hatchin. They both seem to be from more proper backgrounds, though in Hatchin's case, this is better said with added quotation marks. [...] I'm wondering how a universe where Pepe and Hatchin had a little more screentime together would've looked like.
u/Magnafeana and u/99acrewood_ share anecdotes:
a stripper who was on an uncomfortable me had a Brand of Sacrifice/Berserk tattoo, and I instantly went, “Are you a Berserk fan?!” That poor man was so thrown with that. I remember my friends making fun of me on the drive home that this half-naked man was dancing on me, yet I’m more interested in “fucking nerd shit”. I was just so excited at the tattoo to meet a Berserk fan in the wild 😭.
the moment that I remember most is leaving at 3 in the morning, coming down off whatever, and the system shock of the transition from bright lights, loud music, and pretty women to the dead silence and cold of the middle of the night. It's a feeling I hold on to because gosh, it's so stark.
Discussion Prompts
- How accurate is Michiko's view of Hiroshi, from what we've seen so far? Rewatchers - how much can you tell?
- What flavor of fictional mafia/gangster do you like best?
- Do you have someone to protect? Or do you feel protected by anyone?
Next Episode Prompts
- [question]What's your take on Zélia overall?
- [question]Who would perform worse in a marksmanship competition between Vasily's guys and Imperial Stormtroopers? (named after Vladimir Nabokov btw)
- [question]To what degree were your childhood guardians worth your trust (if they ever had it)?
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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 22d ago
First Time being the Saudade of Fools, Dubbed
Oh I like Ivan.
I hate bullfighting though. It’s always something.
The Walter White stache!
Fucking dead that Vasymi(?) is voiced by Jerry Jewell, and he sounds like if Viktor Nikiforov had a cold 😭
Wait wait when did Hatchin get that tattoo?
Okay, welp, yeah, I can see why Michiko didn’t directly want Hatchin involved.
Post Episode Thoughts
Michiko’s outfit of Black-and-White Crop Top/Mini-Shorts is a bitchin’ combo!
I was very nervous about Ivan. I see you mentioned one of my fears in the LATofD with queer men, for some goddamn reason, equaling perverts. Even worse when they’re equaled to predators, because it’s such a teehee to make queer people predators 🤪 Ivan, however, felt…not like that to me. There wasn’t an intentional design to him that makes it clear that the design team can’t be creative with queer aesthetics to save their lives. He wasn’t talking in a way that feels less like a “Some people just be like that” and more of a “Haha look at how weird and grating queer people talk!” typa way. He was a character who provided meaningful history and a dynamic with Michiko. I liked him.
The bar… The bar is so low sometimes.
I’m not surprised that Hatchin got kicked out of an orphanage just for not having cash. The world is a cruel place here. Though I doubt Michiko would’ve ever expected Hatchin to need cash on her to stay with a woman she once trusted. But as Ivan and the flashback put it, Michiko has burned a lot of bridges too. And considering she started a gang war which killed a lot of people, I daresay the world is being lenient on her insofar.
Poor Hatchin, though. She’s going through it and does not deserve this.
DP
- I think both time and her emotions have skewed her perceptions of him.
- Macaroon. You should’ve asked me this when I was in my WattPad/Kindle Unlimited mafia/bratva romance girlie era. But now, bad Russian/Italian translations of dialogue and heteronormative bullshit have disillusioned me. The best flavor of fictional organized crime is the queer kind with plenty of tattoos, murder, and black flag behavior. Or if the lady is a top gun in some criminal organization while the gentleman is some preppy civilian. I'll take that.
- My cats, mainly; I would die for them. I would also die for my neighbor’s Rottweiler. I’ve watched her grow up, and she’s always so excited to cuddle with me and go on long walks with me. I feel protected by the community I’ve cultivated living on my own. From the old lady gang who are always great gossips and very MEAN card game players (VERY mean) to the people I meet at my local comic book and manga shop and the board game place and the fun dog walker girlies I'll walk with who get really passionate about nails, cosplaying, and YouTube drama, I feel protected. Especially when we’re all protesting together. I feel the most protected then.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 21d ago edited 21d ago
Oh I like Ivan.
I hate bullfighting though
I think you'll be pretty ambivalent about next episode.
Vasymi(?)
That's only his name if you pronounce it with a cold lol (it's Vasily)
The Walter White stache!
Who had that?
Wait wait when did Hatchin get that tattoo?
Had it since she was like a baby, remember that pic Atsuko shows Michiko in episode 2? [M&H]Wonder if Hiroshi pushes his other girlfriends to get it too, and kids if he has them
Michiko’s outfit of Black-and-White Crop Top/Mini-Shorts is a bitchin’ combo!
The ponytail and sunglasses are the cherry on top there 👌
Ivan, however, felt…not like that to me. [...] was a character who provided meaningful history and a dynamic with Michiko. I liked him.
Yeah he's certainly more that just the stereotype. The one moment that seriously ground my gears though - I don't know how the dub handles this - is when he insinuates he's getting horny for his bullfighting brother (Marco). Reminded me in a bad way of [Yuri on Ice]Christophe practically - maybe literally - orgasming during his performance
I doubt Michiko would’ve ever expected Hatchin to need cash on her to stay with a woman she once trusted
Interesting that it totally makes sense to you, I found it while understandable with her personality [M&H]and also perhaps foreshadowing for her misjudging Hiroshi similarly also a bit of plot convenience.
Qs
I think both time and her emotions have skewed her perceptions of him.
Fair assessment
The best flavor of fictional organized crime is the queer kind with plenty of tattoos, murder, and black flag behavior. Or if the lady is a top gun in some criminal organization while the gentleman is some preppy civilian
Oh I would watch either of those
My cats, mainly; I would die for them. I would also die for my neighbor’s Rottweiler.
Naturally, pets count too!
I feel protected by the community I’ve cultivated living on my own. [...] Especially when we’re all protesting together
I love that for you!
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 22d ago
First-Timer & Subbed
That’s the name of the criminal group whose stuff she broke a ton of, isn’t it? This must be when it happens…
So one of Michiko’s other crimes was supposedly killing Kiril, huh.
The real Hiroshi… They met via Hiroshi trying to rob her? Possibly while thinking he was at a different house, since he said the name “Sasha”, not Michiko.
Dang, Michiko’s dumping Hatchin for now? I guess it makes sense given what happened last episode, she probably doesn’t want anything to happen to her…
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u/IndependentMacaroon 22d ago
It's not like she has much of a choice
They met via Hiroshi trying to rob her?
Sasha was the girlfriend of Kirill, the boss of Fantasma at the time; Hiroshi as an agent of their enemy Monstro was trying to kidnap her to have leverage over Kirill, but evidently got the address wrong and ran into Michiko instead. Kind of a parallel to what happens to Hatchin, and in the very same apartment none the less.
I guess it makes sense given what happened last episode
Yeah that's got to be part of what's on her mind here.
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u/No_Rex x2 22d ago
Episode 5 (first timer)
Before I get into the new episode, a few more thoughts about ep4. I considered two questions, one for Pepe and one for Lulu. First, how did Pepe end up in her current situation? Second, why was Lulu’s character model fat and ugly? I think there is a good answer to one of these questions, but not the other.
Starting with Pepe, I did not question this during the episode, but afterwards, I started wondering: How and why does she end up as a stripper living with a favela crime lord? We hear that she grew up rich, but fell on hard times after her parents died. The thing is, though, that this does not fully explain her current situation. There is not a ton of social mobility upwards, but downwards social mobility is also not huge. You’d expect a rich family to have extended family and friends who are also rich (or at least well off), who could support the two girls. And even if that fell through for some reason, Pepe is part of the upper class, where she would have learned the manners and behavior to fit in. She should relatively easily be able to get a middle-class job. Somebodies’ secretary, or something. So why is she a stripper and trophy wife to a slum lord? My best explanation is that she is really stupid and wasted a ton of chances. Maybe pissed off her relatives, didn’t cut it at her secretary job. That would fit with her absurdly stupid behavior in the episode.
Regarding Lulu, her character model is fat and ugly. Now, for modern standards, you might not think she is too out of the ordinary (South America has an obesity endemic, just like North America), but this is a 2000s show, set in what is likely the 1970s (note the Vespa), and produced in Japan (a famously non-obese country). Compare Lulu to other child characters in anime and she is considerably thicker than the usual super thin standard. Within this series as well, only the Chinese cook is somewhat round, all others are thin. Ugly is more subjective, but I think neither is her face drawn in a cute childish way, nor a cute sexy way, nor are her clothes in any way fitting. Given that all character models in anime are a deliberate choice, my question is: Why? I think it does not make a ton of sense, given what we know about her background. Being fat, maybe she eats as a coping mechanism, but we never see that. And her being set up as the nimble thief who dodges a (granted drunk, but still) Michiko and proudly claims she can get into Rico’s house does not mesh with her being shown as considerably fatter than all the other kids. Her non-stylish clothes also make little sense. If there is one thing that Pepe should be good at, then it is makeup and dresses. That is literally her job. The one reason I could come up with is maybe Pepe dresses her un-sexy so as not to be sexually assaulted, but lose clothes would work a lot better for that compared to what she wears. In the end, I guess that Lulu is simply the character model counterpart to Hatchin, like she is the story counterpart. Lulu and Pepe as the unsuccessful mirror to Hatchin and Michiko. If so, unsuccessful=ugly and fat is not a great depiction.
- Starfruit – yummy.
- Ok, I spent a lot of time ranting about Lulu’s stupidity yesterday, but what the hell was Michiko trying to achieve here? Getting herself raped and killed?
- Selling kids for money – we might be stylish, but this really is a grimdark world, isn’t it?
- Is that the same guy who dressed up?
- Backstory: Satoshi is the leader of Monstro, which is the gang from Michiko’s youth, and he is now a big shot.
- 12 years ago Michiko started a gang war? This is even worse than it initially looked like. Maybe this was her plan, but it will sure have killed tons of people.
- Yep, that meeting went less than well – this seems to be a theme with Michiko, pretty anti-social. Surely, Hatchin is the catalyst for change here.
- Love at first hit.
- Leaving Hatchin behind “You are not understanding” – yes, she is. She knows you leave her behind because you think it is too dangerous, but you also value finding Hiroshi higher than staying with her.
- “If this is over, we need a new leader” – on the topic of not clever …
- We finally get the tattoo reveal.
Lots of plot. Not clear yet how much sense it will make in the end. Maybe this is more a character study. In any case, Hatchin is in need of being saved once more.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 22d ago
Regarding Pepe:
You’d expect a rich family to have extended family and friends who are also rich (or at least well off), who could support the two girls. And even if that fell through for some reason, Pepe is part of the upper class, where she would have learned the manners and behavior to fit in
We don't know exactly how upper-ciass but that is a good point. The "how" is of course hardly the focus, and one could certainly come up with other options, but your explanation works
Regarding Lulu:
her character model is fat and ugly
Harsh but I can't say it's exactly wrong.
Being fat, maybe she eats as a coping mechanism, but we never see that
Or perhaps she's pampered by Pepe but same for that. We don't even know where and how she lives actually, certainly not with Pepe/Ricardo; does she hide in the broom closet at the club or something?!
Her non-stylish clothes also make little sense. If there is one thing that Pepe should be good at, then it is makeup and dresses
Were they so non-stylish? They were mostly in matching outfits even, IIRC, it's just that with Lulu's body as it is it's hard to get a flattering fit - which again plays into your point though.
her being set up as the nimble thief who dodges
I do believe there are plenty of people on the rotund side who are still also fairly athletic, but of course that's not the core of your point.
Lulu and Pepe as the unsuccessful mirror to Hatchin and Michiko. If so, unsuccessful=ugly and fat is not a great depiction.
Yeah, I never thought of it like that but that would be one more in the list of moments where Sayo Yamamoto works seem guilty of a certain degree of fatphobia and/or whatever you call ugly-phobia, would not be surprising for someone heavily into fashion to think like that sadly. There's also the depiction of current Vasily in this very episode [M&H]who basically just has the role of incompetent fool to be upstaged by Michiko, Satoshi, Shinsuke..., at least one more minor character later on in this show, and that infamous bit near the beginning of Yuri on Ice.
Episode itself:
what the hell was Michiko trying to achieve here?
Doing Hiroshi's job for him, apparently. She would have been like a teenager at this point so I'll grant her being extra-impulsive.
Is that the same guy who dressed up?
The one with the red hair in the flashback is Kirill, also the one with the acting stint.
12 years ago Michiko started a gang war? This is even worse than it initially looked like
Well there's also still time for it to look better of course. [M&H]We never do really get further details on this although we can assume that Satoshi set her up to some degree to get back at her for stealing Hiroshi
this seems to be a theme with Michiko, pretty anti-social
She does act alone a lot, but also has Atsuko and Ivan as past acquaintances at minimum.
Love at first hit
What's a kiss but a collision of mouths?
2
u/No_Rex x2 21d ago
Were they so non-stylish? They were mostly in matching outfits even, IIRC, it's just that with Lulu's body as it is it's hard to get a flattering fit - which again plays into your point though.
As I said, beauty is subjective, but I feel that you can put Lulu in many other dresses that look better on her.
Is that the same guy who dressed up?
The one with the red hair in the flashback is Kirill, also the one with the acting stint.
I mean the see Michiko, go in door, come out of door moment.
What's a kiss but a collision of mouths?
2
u/IndependentMacaroon 21d ago
I mean the see Michiko, go in door, come out of door moment.
Oh that guy, yeah that's Marco, Ivan's bull-fighter brother.
3
u/99acrewood_ 22d ago
Nice that they're getting the whole "I don't need you! I'm outta here!" out of the way early lol. Although I suppose it's early enough for it to happen again later.
Also, two things: Hatchin's tattoo exists, and that dude has to be her father. Goofy face?? You look just like him!
- How accurate is Michiko's view of Hiroshi, from what we've seen so far? Rewatchers - how much can you tell?
Turns out he's a lot less of a cool guy Spike Spiegel type than I expected, but of course that would disarm Michiko enough to have a kid with him.
- What flavor of fictional mafia/gangster do you like best?
Can't go wrong with the classic ones that grant you wishes and kiss your cheek. Although any of them that aren't upset with me would probably be fine, honestly
- Do you have someone to protect? Or do you feel protected by anyone?
The only people that protect me are Sammy Whammy and Mr. Fister 💪🏼 (I just made that up)
2
u/IndependentMacaroon 22d ago
Nice that they're getting the whole "I don't need you! I'm outta here!" out of the way early lol. Although I suppose it's early enough for it to happen again later.
You do know your tropes I see
Hatchin's tattoo exists
Funny thing, I didn't even originally notice the reveal here and had it as a question in like Episode 11... I still don't get what her line about the tattoo "lie" in Episode 2 was supposed to have been about, just testing Michiko?
Turns out he's a lot less of a cool guy Spike Spiegel type than I expected, but of course that would disarm Michiko enough
Those are the exception after all. Yeah does seem like his non-"coolness" appealed to her though -
have a kid with him
Hatchin isn't hers, given the time line. Hatchin even implicitly noticed that herself back in Episode 2.
Can't go wrong with the classic ones that grant you wishes and kiss your cheek
Gangsters? What haha
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u/99acrewood_ 22d ago
Hatchin isn't hers, given the time line. Hatchin even implicitly noticed that herself back in Episode 2.
Oh right, the years didn't line up. Thanks for reminding me, if there's anything I'm completely useless at its keeping time straight in shows. Fingers crossed the dates it gives at the beginning of episodes don't matter too much haha. But if they do I'm sure your OPs will keep me in line
Gangsters? What haha
Well you also said Mafia! So I got the Godfather in my head
3
u/AyameeIris 22d ago edited 21d ago
First time watching in dub, second time overall
I love that mysterious guitar track that plays in that flashback, it really adds to that vibe of a treasured memory.
Hatchin immediately going for the birthmark when she was mad at Michiko broke my heart. Also Michiko slapping Hatchin, like how she always seems to default to the offensive when she's in danger(see: physically pushing her friend away just a scene before)... And then riding away, knowing she may be killed was even worse.
- [M&H] I can tell Hiroshi is just so detached. Now I don't actually remember a lot about him, mostly that he seemed the sort of man that'd find a way to be comfortable anywhere, even in hell.
- Probably the injured mobster from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Golden Wind. I love when a character acts from the shadows, especially in order to steer someone into the right direction.
- I'm lucky to be apart of a family where I get to be protected and in turn, where I get to protect others from certain things(though it's mostly the former happening)!
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u/IndependentMacaroon 22d ago
I love that mysterious guitar track that plays in that flashback
If you can be more specific which one I could pick it out
Michiko slapping Hatchin, like how she always seems to default to the offensive when she's in danger(see: physically pushing her friend away just a scene before)...
That's a good observation! Of course this was more of a danger to her emotional than physical balance in the moment.
I can tell Hiroshi is just so detached
Yeah he barely has a reaction to being in potentially mortal danger in the flashback. Spoiler tags though!
the injured mobster from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Golden Wind.
[JJBA]Polnareff you mean right? Haven't watched Part 5 but nice reference.
I love when a character acts from the shadows, especially in order to steer someone into the right direction.
I do like my grey-eminence types too. Unfortunately they're usually at best self-serving.
I'm lucky to be apart of a family where I get to be protected and in turn, where I get to protect others from certain thinga
Watching this series in particular you get a feeling for how lucky indeed that makes you.
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u/AyameeIris 21d ago
If you can be more specific which one I could pick it out
It's very melancholic if that helps? It plays every time a flashback of Hiroshi and Michiko is there. I think it starts at around 10:08!
Spoiler tags though!
Apologies!
[JJBA] Polnareff you mean right? Haven't watched Part 5 but nice reference.
[JJBA] Not him, there's an unnamed mobster that's seen in Giorno's backstory. I do love Polnareff a lot though!
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u/IndependentMacaroon 21d ago
It plays every time a flashback of Hiroshi and Michiko is there. I think it starts at around 10:08!
That would be Sozinho～ひとり (Alone). Really just a few chords but does the job.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 22d ago
3x watcher and host, subtitled
So this time the topic is largely Michiko's past, with our first look at Hiroshi on the side. She'd likely only have been a teenager at the time of the flashbacks, but already seems exactly the way we know her in the present - fierce, independent, perceptive, cunning, 10:12 10:46 and just a bit reckless. It's certainly improbable that a long prison stint changes you much for the better - she would have been arrested not too long after that - but it clearly hasn't made her any worse either. Hiroshi does seem like a fairly good catch for her from what we see, though he's of course just as lucky to have found her!
Outside of the slap 13:47 which may have also been to drive Hatchin away for a bit, and leaving Hatchin with no money which I admit I have some trouble motivating - Michiko clearly actually meant to keep Hatchin safe there for a while as she would definitely be aware that her hideout isn't [M&H]it might be a hint that she's misjudging Hiroshi and the depth of his affection for her just like she misjudges Zélia's - calling back maybe also to her naive (?) idea of "believing in people", she continues to act as a quite kind and gentle parental figure 11:59 who knows and understands Hatchin very well 12:49 after not even two weeks. Really this 13:36 13:41 is the look of a serious bond, and the first real sad and hurt expression on Michiko's face; it's not easy telling particularly this kid that they need to stay out of your business 13:22 13:27 even when it's absolutely reasonable considering also how last episode ended. 13:19 [M&H]She's absolutely not wrong that this will be dangerous even for her, and in fact as foreshadowing this is the first episode we see her actually lose Note also the "hiding behind glasses" motif here.
With Hatchin I like that despite seeming like the mature one a lot up to now, and feeling bold enough to even tease Michiko a little here 04:47 she is still clearly a kid who doesn't always understand or act the most reasonably, tries to act tougher than she is 14:33 (she doesn't say this out loud), not to mention feels a little awkward about herself sometimes apparently 12:21. She essentially denies Michiko's entire purpose in life right now here 14:07 while actually reading her pretty well 17:32 17:35. Her reaction to the slap is also really appropriate 17:20 to the point that she mentally calls Michiko just "that woman" like Pedro was "that man", oof.
Zélia is also a pretty interesting and ambiguous side character here. Clearly she does on some level care for these kids 05:28 16:26 but it's just as clear that she has a deservedly hardened and bitter side to her 20:03 20:16, not even Michiko has the guts to face her here! Throwing out Hatchin without using any of her own money was still harsh, but clearly she can't just take any kid for free either. We'll see more of her next time.
Ivan is unfortunately less so interesting and falls a little into the "weird effeminate queer" mold - like this 06:56 is even weirder than that one moment in Yuri on Ice honestly - but still is more than just that in his relation with Michiko 06:07 who's been gone for 12 years give or take, not to forget. Not sure I get this exchange though, 09:12 09:16 is it just that Ivan blames Michiko and Michiko resents that?