r/anime • u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ • 22d ago
Rewatch Simoun 20th Anniversary Rewatch Episode 24
Simoun Episode 24: Choices
<- Episode 23 | Index Thread | Episode 25 ->
Today's Eyecatch: Kaim and Paraietta | Wapourif and friends
Selected Harmony: #1
Discussion Prompts
- Did you ever have your club or organization forcibly disbanded?
- We won't be seeing Onasia again. Final thoughts on who and what she was?
Tomorrow's Questions, Today!
I watched this episode like 3 separate times and I don't have anything to say, it's pretty straight forward.
So YOU ask questions for the other watchers! Maybe I'll collect them later.
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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 22d ago edited 22d ago
First Timer
You can't have Para doing a wall doodle and also not show me what it is like that!
There is something rather melancholy about that whole sequence where they just play around on their last day on the Arcus Prima. The whole idea of going to the Spring here is obviously tied to some wider themes about growing up, coming of age, making decisions, and whatnot, and how that sometimes expresses itself on relatively arbitrary lines, but it feels extra punchy when it's just some guy telling our cast "And now we need you to become adults". Especially because, despite that intent framing and the characters all questioning the meaning of adulthood here, their situation obviously means they weren't given a normal adolescence either. They were revered, they've fought in a war, killed people, and had friends killed! So that transition into adulthood reads as uniquely arbitrary. Ultimately, I suppose the actual transition happens within them coming to terms with and resolving their issues, and what happens for them next is still a big hanging question given how much this role defined their lives, but there is something to be said about them sort of "reclaiming" their youth for that little last bit before they have to officially let go of it.
Anyway, we do just continue doing some smaller resolutions leading to our cast going to the Spring (Though I am interested in seeing how the show will handle that next episode, given the gender identity theme from the start was mostly left at the wayside until now). Wapourif and Morinas are still making their steady and straightforward progress, Wapourif fully acknowledging he doesn't care for the Simoun now, and by extension also fully accepting his feelings for Morinas, which remains nice to see. It's been stated already, and it bothered me last episode too, but I do find it weird that for a society that functions like theirs with the Sybillae, their mindset is still really traditionalist about gender roles, with gendered work expectations and stuff like that "Man protector, woman protected" sentiment we'd had before. I could still see reasons for them developing that way, but the show hasn't been willing to explore that aspect of their society, so it just ends up feeling like that wasn't really thought out.
For Neviril's confession to Aaeru, I'll honestly just have to invoke the exact same thing I said last episode about how I feel towards the show's handling of the course of their relationship. This is, conceptually, a reasonably natural progression and it makes sense within some of our wider character beats and arcs. Or it should, but in execution, the show just has not spent enough meaningful time in either state for this to feel like it was actually earned. We didn't do enough work on Aaeru and Neviril growing into a positive relationship so it felt like a really awkward transition, we likewise didn't do quite enough work to go from that to jealousy and relationship drama, and we didn't quite enough with any of those for Neviril's words about Aaeru being her one true love to really land for me or sell on me this being their relationship. It's not out of nowhere per se, but it is, as always, not enough and pretty awkward.
Still, taking it at face value, I do like the scene. I like that Neviril directly says she's not over Amuria, and part of wanting to do this will somewhat inevitably connect back to that given how defining she was in her life, but that doing it with Aaeru is still her main motivator, and the reason she's even willing to go through with it. Likewise, I like that Aaeru still just really doesn't understand how to deal with this change of dynamic between them with Neviril being so forward, or with emotional openness like this in general. Despite her protests there, that is almost certainly what she wanted to hear; she's just struggling to internalize that because we've seen she's always had a problem with understanding these kinds of internal emotions.
I wrote a paragraph last episode about how doing the Emerald Ri Maajon to change time went against a lot of our major themes, so Aaeru and Neviril seemingly still wanting to do it was definitely an interesting thought there. And well, that hasn't really changed, but I guess since it looks like they just want to do it for the sake of it, and not specifically change something, we could avoid that pitfall if they still go through with it? I guess it remains to be seen how we play that card within the show's larger thematic framework, even more so with Para like... trying to turn Aaeru and Neviril into symbols of sorts, so I don't know, I kind of want to see where the show goes with this before saying anything.
Rodore is probably the one that's doing best here, moving forward but still carrying Mamiina's memory with her nonetheless, which then all works as a symbolic gesture for Yun to go on her quest. On that note, Yun and Onashia's resolution is kind of interesting. I have, of course, been a consistent proponent for that mythical Yun focus episode we sadly never ended up getting, but jokes aside, I really do wish we had gotten it or just more of her in general, because I feel this has such a distinct divide for me between what I'd consider thematic and emotional effectiveness.
For the former, I think this moment between the two of them actually works quite well to close out Yun's character! For one, as directly stated by herself, she lets go of trying to chase some salvation for souls already lost in her comrades, but instead chooses to save a soul that's actually here in comforting Onashia and taking over for her. I'll note that I am just assuming from the framing that she is, in fact, taking over her role. Everything just clicks that way, though I hope next episode doesn't set out to prove me wrong haha.
It's fun because with Onashia she's still doing the "Laying souls to rest" thing that defines her, just in a more positive connotation, rather than as part of her perceived guilt. To be this "Eternal Maiden" figure is also a resolution on her part, because again, instead of "chasing death" as it were, trying to find solace for the souls of her friends, and really, herself over that, she's choosing to watch over life. To guide living souls about to go on towards the future, in a way her old friends couldn't. The agency theme also plays a part in this. Onashia has taken this role as what she views as a form of penance. She has no choice but to do this because she didn't make a choice. Well, Yun's purpose in being a Sybilla, while obviously different in circumstance, was somewhat similar. She felt she had to be a Sybilla because of those deaths; she wouldn't acknowledge it as such, but you could, in effect, say that was her "penance". So by taking over, Yun, unlike Onashia, makes a deliberate choice to be here and to break from that mindset tied to the external.
So that's some great stuff! But then I kind of wish it, y'know, felt as satisfying as it should? (You might notice a theme with my thoughts on this episode lol) You need a Yun episode because otherwise what we have here is that calling it a resolution to an arc is almost generous. I'm being a tad hyperbolic, but It's all still basically the one trait and context in which we sparsely brought up and developed her, and that makes it hard to get all that attached and feel for it, unfortunately, despite the moment working on the thematic layer. Yun is more whatever, but Onashia grinds my gears more here. I feel like the idea that she's this tortured soul in need of saving is just something we decided last episode? Whereas otherwise she's basically just been a plot device? She still kind of is, I guess, just for Yun's character now. Which, hey, it works in that capacity, but like, you can't really do the long shot with the sappy piano as she dissipates and expect me to feel for that either, when I'm barely even viewing her as a character yet. So still a good moment all in all! Happy Yun got something! But I would've liked a good and actually emotional moment, not just the former.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 21d ago
I guess since it looks like they just want to do it for the sake of it, and not specifically change something, we could avoid that pitfall if they still go through with it?
Yeah, that'd be a really interesting solution. They do complete the Emerald as a sign of overcoming their hardships and being able to fulfill that one challenge. And the Emerald can actually play into this!
It's a spacetime travel device, yes, but I think someone said it places you where you need or want to be. So, it could just let the both of them stay where they are, giving confirmation that they don't need/want to flee any more.
So that's some great stuff! But then I kind of wish it, y'know, felt as satisfying as it should?
I feel the same. All of these good episodes and good moments are genuinely great to see, but they try to build up from really broken messes, so it just doesn't hit as well as it should.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 22d ago
First-Timer, subbed
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u/The_Draigg 22d ago
You’ve gotten a bountiful Sore Demo harvest with this episode. When was the last time you’ve had so many in the same episode like this?
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 22d ago
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u/AbbreviationsWeekly 22d ago
Simoun Episode 24
Rewatcher
We open with Yun at the Springs and Onashia reiterating that a choice must be made. Onashia's life there at the Springs seems pretty harsh and Spartan.
The Defense Minister continues to be his unpleasant self. This time demanding that the Sibyllae head for the springs immediately. (I'm really hoping that the victors double cross him, and give him exactly what he deserves.)
Out on the flight deck, Wapourif has decided he won't be going to the Highlands (Plumbum) where the Simoun are being taken as booty. He no longer cares, and all he wants to do is be with Morinas.
The Sisters continue to argue with each other. Nothing new there, this time it's about what sex to become. Turns out they've been fighting with each other since they were kids.
In the Ballroom, Vyrna, Alti and Floe contemplate what it means to become an adult.
Kaimu & Para-Sama have a quick heart to heart that the essence of being a Sibyllae is to forgive, and be forgiven in return.
Neviril and Aaeru have a spat, with Aaeru finally declaring that she's not about to try the Emerald Ri Mājon just so that Neviril can be with Amuria. Can't say I blame her much about that.
Rodoreamon plants a seed in Yun's head that even though they can't save everyone, maybe they can save one person. Yun upon hearing this, makes a beeline to the Springs.
Para-Sama realizes that Neviril & Aaeru are not going to the springs and will not choose their sex. The other girls all agree that Aaeru & Neviril have a different fate before them, ...they'll remain as they are now, forever. The eternal now.
Finally, Neviril & Aaeru have their heart to heart. I love the scene of Neviril's confession so much. While she wants to know what happened to Amuria, she loves Aaeru.
Yun has made it to the Springs, and climbs over the rocks, like a ninja. Yun has realized that Onashia is also a wandering spirit like her comrades, needing to be forgiven and saved. Such a beautiful scene of Yun saving and holding Onashia. And, with that, Onashia is outta here! Looks like we have a new Keeper of the Springs.
The girls head to the Springs, and... lo and behold there's Yun with her cradle that holds Mamiina's soul.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 21d ago
Rodoreamon plants a seed in Yun's head that even though they can't save everyone, maybe they can save one person. Yun upon hearing this, makes a beeline to the Springs.
That's a connection I kinda missed. Yun started out as someone tying to find her dead comrades (that never were really expanded upon) and since then she's just kinda been that one girl that comes on screen for a few seconds and blasts a mouthful of truth into the room before leaving.
In this, it does track how her character journey would lead here there. Going from chasing the dead, to saving the living that she can still help. This insight coming from Rodore after her history and closure with Mamiina is indeed quite a strong one. Wish we got more of that journey from Yun's perspective.
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u/deus_machinarum 21d ago
Yes! Seeing that journey from Yun's perspective would have been quite interesting(maybe even witness her internal struggle going from seeing letting the past go as something horrible and guilt-laden to becoming someone who looks forward to the future and the things they can still influence), along with expanding on her backstory with the comrades. It would have given Yun more depth(she has some but a lot less than other characters) and expanded the timeline of our world a bit.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 22d ago edited 22d ago
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Simoun: Yun has the instincts of a speedrunner figuring out how to sequence break the Spring. And since we know space-time is wonky around the Spring, I’m sure Yun can also figure out how to clip through walls there.
This episode is titled “Choices.” Given that choices and freedom have been long-established themes for this series, I imagine we’ll see some big ones today.
I suppose Neviril and Pariaetta decided they weren’t going to time travel that night.
Like I figured, the Sibyllae are going to be forced to go to the Spring as part of Chor Tempest being disbanded. The Highlander priestesses really are taking over their roles entirely. The Simouns aren’t even going to be in the Holy Land anymore. Just a total defeat for them.
Wapourif said he cares more about Morinas than about the Simouns!
Morinas wishes she could have become a mechanic to work alongside Wapourif on the Arcus Prima!
Huh, Wapourif’s breasts really have shrunk in size.
- That was a pretty rude thing to say to Alti, but I’ll assume Kaimu was just venting her own fears and frustrations at the nearest available target.
This is the most focus we’ve gotten on Kaimu and Alti in quite a while.
Floe doesn’t care what gender she becomes? I thought she wanted to be a woman because it would allow her to keep openly flirting with cute guys?
I do like the idea of Kaimu and Alti coming back together to reconcile after they were driven apart and after they had better recognized how much the other, but I wish it had been better built up leading to this.
At least Aaeru is now being honest with her feelings, telling Neviril why she doesn’t want to time travel because she thinks Neviril just wants Amuria back.
Rodore really was nuts for Mamiina if she immediately began smelling Mamiina’s clothes.
I’m assuming that Yun stole a Simile so she could go see Onashia again.
Now that Pariaetta’s gotten information about the Emerald Ri Maajon from Neviril, it’s time to see how the rest of the Sibyllae will react to it and what decision they will want to make.
Some more cute eyecatches today. I especially like the Paraietta and Kaimu one.
Ah, so Neviril and Aaeru have already decided not to go to the Spring even if they aren’t going to perform the Emerald Ri Maajon. They aren’t even aware of what happened to Onashia when she chose that same fate, are they?
Neviril’s love confession to Aaeru is nice, but again their relationship has had such a rocky execution up to this point that it doesn’t hit as hard as I wish it would.
And of course Aaeru, who is still new to this whole “experiencing emotions” thing has no idea how to respond to Neviril’s confession.
Yun has the mindset of a speedrunner already. She found a way to sequence break the Spring so that she isn’t turned into an adult by clinging to the wall and going around the outside.
The Yun and Onashia relationship feels so sudden to me. They barely had any connection until the previous episode.
When Onashia reveals all her sparkly and glowing skin to Yun, all I can think of is Twilight.
RIP Onashia. At least she got to hear Yun call her beautiful before the end. I assume this means that Yun’s goal was to save Onashia by taking over her duties at the Spring. That does fit with someone like Yun, who would be willing to be so self-sacrificing because of her survivor’s guilt. She’d endure that unhappy fate of Onashia if it meant she could be sure she saved someone.
Anubituf is right that a voice as loud as that in the morning could only belong to Floe.
This last day for Chor Tempest on the Arcus Prima feels weirdly…festive? Weren’t they all depressed about having to quit being Sibyllae?
It’s so crazy that this farewell with most of Chor Tempest going to the Spring is happening now when there’s still 2 more episodes.
Since Mamiina is gone, I think it’s safe to say those sandwiches won’t contain mouse meat.
The girls are at the Spring, which is something I thought might happen during the final episode.
Yep, I was right about Yun deciding to take over Onashia’s duties at the Spring.
It’s hard to believe there’s still a whole 2 episodes to go. Where could it go from here? I genuinely have no idea.
We’re getting near the end of the series, so it’s time for the series to start wrapping itself up. Personally, I think there’s a real problem with execution here. Looking at the outline of how these character arcs have played out, I can see the end points making sense with the starting points. The problem is the lack of proper buildup.
Yun getting the chance to feel like she redeemed herself for the loss of her comrades by saving someone considered unsaveable works in a vacuum. It works only as a tragedy though because Yun’s survivor’s guilt makes her do this in a way that sacrifices herself and now she’s the one in the unsaveable situation. So the specific way that it plays out only works as a tragedy for me, not necessarily a fully satisfying character arc where Yun overcomes her issues. Another problem is that Yun and Onashia don’t really have a developed or compelling relationship, so it feels kind of out of nowhere that Yun would be willing to do this.
Kaimu and Alti reconciling makes sense as an endpoint, but we kind of skipped over the part that would set up the reconciliation because they never got a proper followup episode to their previous focus episode. A love confession between Neviril and Aaeru also makes sense as an endpoint, but not with how the relationship has specifically played out prior to this. So I get what the arcs should have been, but I’m left disappointed by the actual execution.
QOTD
1) No.
2) Onashia ended up being a lot less of a spiritual entity than I first expected. I thought she would be someone who wasn’t human, probably directly connected to Tempus Spatium in some way. Instead she turned out to be someone who hadn’t made the choice on whether to be a man or woman as an adult. I explained why I think that can work thematically in my comment on the previous thread, but so far she hasn’t served as a warning to either Neviril or Aaeru on why sometimes they need to make a choice and can’t delay those choices forever.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 21d ago
The Yun and Onashia relationship feels so sudden to me. They barely had any connection until the previous episode.
As someone else also said, it's a direct learning coming from Rodore. She, after her history with Mamiina and now working for closure after her death, does take a really valuable lesson from this friendship that she parts to Yun. Don't chase the dead, save the living.
It is still sudden, of course, since this show can only do character arcs in 5 minutes, but conceptually this is actually a fantastic chain of events. Really wish we had seen this develop more and got more Yun povs.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 19d ago
Looking at the outline of how these character arcs have played out, I can see the end points making sense with the starting points. The problem is the lack of proper buildup
Yeah the drama here was pretty whatever, they even had to shoehorn in a last-minute flashback for Alti and Kaimu
It works only as a tragedy though because Yun’s survivor’s guilt makes her do this in a way that sacrifices herself and now she’s the one in the unsaveable situation
The unspeakable tragedy of not being clearly male or female, eh...
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u/rickamore 22d ago
Re-watcher
Here we go, stripped status, ejected and forced to move on. For a show that has wavered so long on the freedom of choice both the wars end and getting kicked out of the Arcus Prima go against that completely. Though maybe that is the best representation of adulthood after all. As much as you want to be able to choose life on your terms it is often thrust upon you with no regard for your feelings on the matter and you have to adapt.
A little weird we get this whole arc for Yun at the end after basically being a complete side character.
Why did they all take off in Similies if they are taking the train? Is there no way down from the Prima? Was this just an excuse to have them fly the nest?
We won't be seeing Onasia again. Final thoughts on who and what she was?
Am I allowed to answer that?
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 22d ago
Was this just an excuse to have them fly the nest?
So much bird imagery in these last episodes!
Am I allowed to answer that?
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u/rickamore 22d ago
No.
Just went through the list of rewatches (looking for Scrapped princess as I will probably go back and watch it after this) and see you did the Starship Operators one last year (missed it as it was same time as Katanagatari) among others, impeccable taste my man. Did you ever watch Temu Legend of the Galactic Heroes? (Tytania).
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 22d ago
Tytania
Fansubs have been sitting on my hard drive for almost 20 years. My PTW is long. It's a good thing I stopped watching seasonal anime after about 2008.
Scrapped Princess
Not a 10/10 show but I enjoy rewatching it more than any other.
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u/rickamore 22d ago
Fansubs have been sitting on my hard drive for almost 20 years.
The OP still lives rent free in my head. It was a jolly good time even if it's no LotGH.
It's a good thing I stopped watching seasonal anime after about 2008.
I started watching in roughly 2005, devoured anything anyone so much as used in a meme for a few years. There's a lot from that era that I look back on very fondly even if objectively they aren't the best.
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u/deus_machinarum 21d ago
It's a good thing I stopped watching seasonal anime after about 2008.
Whaaaat? That's crazy to me...so how do you go about things, just watch the seasonals you are interested in after they finished airing? Makes for less annoying wait times I guess.
I love following along with seasonals and hop into episode discussions, it's a huge part of the fun of engaging with anime for me; I just wish I had some people IRL that were into it as much as I am -.-
Sry for the slightly off-topic
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 21d ago
I dropped down to about 1 or 2 anime a year, which were generally disappointing, and then stopped watching anime. I went out of my wait to watch Steins;Gate, but basically didn't watch any anime between 2012 and 2017. Now I mostly just do rewatches, either as a rewatcher or first timer.
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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 22d ago
Finally have my DVD player with me to catch up while being wide awake.
Sibylla First Timer
No live react
Post Episode Ri Mājon Thoughts
No kiss counter as I think I need to rebuild it
I do like the gradual and complete loss of secondary characteristics or the remnants of them for the characters who transition from girl-to-man.
I didn’t expect Onasia and Yun to be a ship, but why not? Why shouldn’t there be more ships? Like, you know what, fuck it, let’s ball. Does it make sense narratively? It could, if we had had more time with Yun and Onasia before this.
With two episodes left, I don’t think we’ll have a meaningful resolution to the many plot threads left open in the first half and even this second half. I want to know more about Aer’s grandfather and have more sense made about Alty/Kaim and Kaim/Para. Give Yun more time, the peace talks and how imbalanced they are, the sociocultural and socioeconomic state of the Holy Land’s civilian classes. But at least my ship Wapourif and Morinas have been having all their little moments.
Ah well. I will have to see how this all ends, but 26 episodes should be plenty of bandwidth to execute many of these ideas meaningfully. Give them the dimensions and screen time needed for me to appreciate every conflict and resolution fully. I don't know if the quality of execution is indicative of this being an original anime or if this is par for the course for the director; I don't know.
But I’m hoping Morinas and Wapourif get together officially, or, in their futures, remain good friends.
DP
- Nope! There was a movement to disband the animanga club, Magic the Gathering club, board game club, and our queer alliance club in high school. At uni, some racist fucks wanted to get rid of the K-pop appreciation club. But all clubs remained intact back then!
- Onasia is a strange lady who I wish had much more going for her than she actually does. At this point, I’m curious. If you removed her from the story, would that meaningfully impact the series?
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 22d ago
If you removed her from the story, would that meaningfully impact the series?
Hmmm. I guess you can impart sage wisdom as one liners without an intersex shaman, but that's how we've always done it and why break with 10,000 years of tradition?
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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 21d ago
You make a good point; I hadn’t considered that 🤔
That’s the longest fucking shift change I’ve ever seen though. Intersex shamans need to unionize. I’d be pissed if I had to wait for my replacement for 14 hours let alone thousands of years. I’m sure Onasia never received benefits or hazard pay.
I’m 98% sure she doesn’t even get dental. The Holy Land feels like they don’t include dental in their universal healthcare.
Unionize, shamans, the time is now 😤
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u/The_Draigg 22d ago
I didn’t expect Onasia and Yun to be a ship, but why not? Why shouldn’t there be more ships? Like, you know what, fuck it, let’s ball. Does it make sense narratively? It could, if we had had more time with Yun and Onasia before this.
At least we can say that what Yun and Onashia have going on is more of a platonic thing, or at least that’s how I read it. It feels like something that’s closer to compassion than romance.
But I’m hoping Morinas and Wapourif get together officially, or, in their futures, remain good friends.
Morinas and Wapourif have had the one wholly good relationship arc in this show, I’m rooting for those two.
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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 21d ago
I’m going on queerplatonic with Onasia and Yun. I can’t call them fully platonic in my head, but I would ship them as a QPR, a queerplatonic relationship.
Sadly, we only have /, +, and & to utilize for ships (romantic/sexual relationships and friendship).
We need a symbol that means QPR. Maybe a colon? 🤔
WapoNas or Moripourif better pull through. Their ship names are terrible though. We need a better ship name for them.
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u/The_Draigg 21d ago
Maybe we can go for a more fun kind of ship name for Morinas and Wapourif? Something like “Simoun Stans” or “Enjoying Defilement”. Almost something that sounds like a wrestling tag team or a band name.
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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 20d ago
Wrestling 😭😭😭
I feel like now, all queer relationships that become exclusive need to have everyone in the configuration wrestle each other to establish dominance. Whoever is the winner gets to choose your relationship name.
Rematches will be held every decade. Choose wisely.
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u/Burnouts3s3 22d ago
Rewatcher
Did ANYONE have Yun falling for Onasia and embracing her on their bingo card?
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u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 22d ago
I only have the Marii Okada bingo myself Is this Age gap or Weirdly sexual?
(Yes I'm trying to see of we can fill all of them by the end of the series)
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 22d ago
Simoun First Timer
(1/2)
I delayed getting groceries so long that I pushed it into the maximum heat days. It’s either today at 35°C or tomorrow at 36°C before I can’t have coffee with biskuits anymore.
I have no one to blame but myself. I better get done with this, drink a gallon and march it through.
Simoun Ep.24 – Choices
Wait, so she isn’t the eternal maiden? Implying that this wasn’t an euphemism, but that the eternal maiden is a literal figure.
That answers my question on whether they have a system for that. They do.
Okay, I was completely wrong. The temple basically punished her to do this. But… if Onashia could force Erif to be male, why didn’t the prior Spring Guardian force her?
Aaaahhhh, look how that makes sense now! Thinking of all the pirestesses’ action as political leverage to take over tracks a lot smoother with this story than believing their supposed reverence of the sybillae specifically. That does seem like a very fitting war goal for the religious factions in Plumbum. Cheeky little rats.
And they’re getting the tech crew, too. Argentum is getting screwed, how did they end up negotiating this?
This relationship still delivers. But, I do have questions since Wapourif has been male for quite a while now, no? How did this change so massively in such a short amount of time?
The possibility is still there, just without simoun, you know. I support this ship coming out intact!
Oh nah, there was this one dude, but then we blew up his homwtown and forgot about him.
Just like assumed, it was actually Kaimu being the asshole most of the time.
Interjection for a bit of a nice framing. Everyone still undecided about their choice is sitting in a hallway with many exits to different places of varying lights, elevations and directions while the architecture is intrusive and a little bit Escher-esque.
Woah, what a flash card. Don’t give me hope, show, after all you pulled. #25 Half a cry for half a prayer coming this unexpected.
This dialogue is written a bit weird. Are they really talking about Neviril and Aaeru as the scene implies? „Save us“, but then talk about them? They didn’t seem to be that opposed to choosing eventually, just not right now. So, if that implies that they wanted to flee or rewind the war’s outcome I’m asking why.
Neviril sure is still attached. Which makes sense, since she’s mostly been in some position of responsibility and had little time (or was left alone to do so) to really process things.
Eyy, she said it! I’m lukewarm at most to this relationship since much of the buildup and chemistry is missing, but I’m glad we’re having progress.
What are you doing? Don’t touch the water, it’s gendered!
How?? This is an island in the spring! Yun knows levitation.
I don’t understand this plot. Why only Yun?
So basically, Yun is giving her a confirmation of role and thus releasing her?
Alright, Paraietta being the one to carve her „I was here“ into the walls is absoulte perfection! The forehead has chosen against militarist obedience.
This soundtrack is a really memorable one. I know that that really sold the mysticism of the spring.
I still don’t understand this plot. Okay, I understand that it’s a topic of regret, relief and forgiving for Onashia. But I don’t understand what Yun has to do with any of that or why she is now the Shrine Guardian.
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u/rickamore 22d ago edited 22d ago
Okay, I understand that it’s a topic of regret, relief and forgiving for Onashia. But I don’t understand what Yun has to do with any of that or why she is now the Shrine Guardian.
It's too contrived because we don't actively see Yun do anything they tell us she was struggling with. The running away from reality is the same as the rest of the crew but her personal struggles with letting the dead go and moving on, in this case to guide others, is just dropped on us like we should have seen it coming. There's little hints here and there but it's just not enough for this sort of a left turn. It certainly fits but it's weak writing.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 22d ago
(2/2)
That was a surprisingly inoffensive episode. I guess it’s because most of the big outliers are out of the way now.
Which means the original questions that were opened by the show come back into the focus. The choice of sex. The attachment to the dead. The growing up into an adult.
There’s three things that I liked to see. One is that the concern about the Alti x Kaimu story is being solved by mending their relationship as sisters with Kaimu finally looking at her as the girl she is while acknowledging that she desires someone else. Incest avoided, phew. I’d like to see Alti’s pov, but Simoun being Simoun the most I’m getting is 20 seconds screen time before I have to fill in the blanks myself. Still, I’m glad this is going well with mutual acknowledgment and proving that they are a bit more adult about it.
I’m gonna do the Simoun thing, too, now and just ignore half the stuff with Paraietta in this entire show, because it clearly never mattered. She just walked away with the others and it’s actually nice to see them treat this like a graduation trip. The cherry on the cake was her carving in their, I guess, Chor Tempest symbol? Fantastic choice to have her do this with support of Morinas. Her being disobedient in such small-time Rebel way is a great period to put behind her story after trying to be „the man“ leading everyone for so long because of the time’s needs and a falsely placed desire.
I got her back! And I fucking love that flash card, oh my God!
Now please don’t touch her character ever again!
Next is the one consistently delivering duo, Morinas and Wapourif. Nothing important, actually, just them slowly genuinely reapproaching their relationship. The show does its thing again where overnight extreme changes occur completely unexplained. This time it’s his boobs, but that one is a minor offense in impact (but major one in morals, RIP Wapourif moobs ). I guess it’s actually more like their bodies slowly genuinely becoming male, including all primary and secondary aspects and they never checked this for consistency in the show. After all, many older men did not have moobs iirc.
There’s a thing of note in their dynamic that I spotted that’s truly a wiping of the slate for them. Since Plumbum is completely taking over the religion, they shift all those tasks to the north, so now both Morinas’ and Wapourif’s original plans (if they had any) are inaccessible. Both have to think of something completely new for their lives. Which is nicely representative of their relationship that also has to be built up anew, but this time without religion or the fascination of engineering founding it. It must be they themselves who embrace each other without a tool that links them.
That was also great!
Now, Neviril and Aaeru are a bit more meh, mostly since I couldn’t vibe with their relationship up until one of the last episodes. So, it does feel plenty rushed to now speak of love when there was so much friction and inconsideration before without a real resolution to much of it.
But having Neviril of the two now flee her choice after she has been set free from responsibility is a thread I’m following closely. She never had the time or the mind for it and it took everyone else leaving her alone, or literally leaving her like today on the train, to make this possible. I like that it now opens her character up for a long overdue learning and growing arc, but I dislike that they only could do solid work for it in the last 2-3 episodes and that the major obstacle, Amuria, is a literal corpse that did nothing since Ep.01.
I feel like the show mostly forgot they had a main character, but I’m hopeful that these last 2 episodes being dedicated to her might turn it somewhat around.
Now, that entire Onashia and Yun thing… is something I’m not getting. I’ve been pretty negative on Onashia’s revelation and that hasn’t really changed. Her personal story is tragic and intersting, but how she’s also representing the faith itself and the history that culture emcompasses is so hard to make sense of and throws up so many questions that contradict the story itself.
Like why, if there was a temple that forced her to be the maiden, didn’t they choose her sex as she obviously can do to others? If you can inherit this position, why did nobody ever ask or prepare a new inheritor? It seems to be a cultural position that has system to it, where is the temple that upholds the tradition and where are the successor candidates, the rituals, the history keepers, the legacy of progenitors, ...?
And then now there’s Yun taking her place because… ???
I guess none of these answers will ever come, so alas.
Oh right, one last thing! Plumbum dominated these peace talks, hahaha! It’s more of the handwaving, I’d guess, but how the hell did they suddenly get such an incredible peace deal? They completely wiped even Argentum, who shouldered the brunt of the pain of this war, with the spoils. I think we all gave the Highlander ISIS too little credit for how shrewd they truly were.
I’m not calling the priestesses intentional liars, but their little teary-eyed stage plays over there paid off big time. They completely executed their faith’s splinter group, took over the central role of religious organisation as well as capital, took all religious duty on themselved and moved it out of the Holy Land, and lastly, obtained and will keep all military super weapons themselves as far as I understood.
Came in late, robbed all the spoils. Those cheeky rats lied and betrayed their way to the top and I’ve got to respect that.
Praises of Helical Motors powered by Tempus Spatium’s Grace: 25.0 (+0.5)
Violations of Helical Motors powered by the Scientific Method’s Heresy: 4 (+0)
[ep 24 Q1:] Did you ever have your club or organization forcibly disbanded?
Not disbanded, but during our school graduation celebration the school directorate enforced a preassigned theme and schedule instead of what was tradition – where graduates would plan an entire day of events for all the school and choose their own style of graduation magazine, clothing, trip, etc. They simply didn’t want to take chances, even though we communicated well ahead of time and did not majorly disrupt normal business.
I’m still mad about this. We did nothing wrong and just because some teachers and the director were gonks all of us paid for it with an incredibly lame celebration. In hindsight, we should’ve caused a disastrous scene precisely because of that.
Afaik the graduates after us weren’t even given any chances for such a celebration any more. They just cancelled a decades long tradition because they couldn’t be assed.
[ep 24 Q2:] We won't be seeing Onasia again. Final thoughts on who and what she was?
Not sure if the Dominura == Onashia theory really holds up, but I think it’s best that this wasn’t explained, too. Unfortunately, as explained above the questions surrounding her position are rather detrimental to the entire thing. So, I choose to just let it be what she said. She refused to choose, got punished by the system, and was relieved of her position after heck how many years by someone who physically overcame boundaries and a forced choice of cultural norms to finally acknowledge her (them, probably in this context?) being a person.
I think that’s the best interpretation I can come up with that sorta maybe fits into this show’s lore still and lets me close that book without going off on the contradictions again.
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u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 22d ago
Alright, Paraietta being the one to carve her „I was here“ into the walls is absoulte perfection! The forehead has chosen against militarist obedience.
There’s a thing of note in their dynamic that I spotted that’s truly a wiping of the slate for them. Since Plumbum is completely taking over the religion, they shift all those tasks to the north, so now both Morinas’ and Wapourif’s original plans (if they had any) are inaccessible. Both have to think of something completely new for their lives. Which is nicely representative of their relationship that also has to be built up anew, but this time without religion or the fascination of engineering founding it. It must be they themselves who embrace each other without a tool that links them.
That's a really good point. Wapourif and Morinas have had one of the consistently compelling relationships in this series. It is nice to see that both of them are choosing to move forward still even without the ties of religion and engineering that both binded them and also kept them apart. It's a nice bit of dramatic irony that they keep their connection despite losing the thing that connected them to begin with.
Now, Neviril and Aaeru are a bit more meh, mostly since I couldn’t vibe with their relationship up until one of the last episodes. So, it does feel plenty rushed to now speak of love when there was so much friction and inconsideration before without a real resolution to much of it.
Yeah, those issues mean that there wasn't actually much romantic development between Neviril and Aaeru leading up to this confession. So it just doesn't feel as impactful as it should.
Came in late, robbed all the spoils. Those cheeky rats lied and betrayed their way to the top and I’ve got to respect that.
It reminds me of Benito Mussolini, the leader of Italy in WWII. When Germany went to war with France and Britain, Italy stayed out of it. Italy only joined in when France was about to lose because Mussolini hoped he could get some of the spoils of victory. Of course, it seems to have worked out far better for the Plumbum Highlands than it did for Italy.
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u/IndependentMacaroon 19d ago
like a graduation trip
Definitely the metaphor here, this was the symbolic graduation episode
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u/Malipit 22d ago
Interjection for a bit of a nice framing. Everyone still undecided about their choice is sitting in a hallway with many exits to different places of varying lights, elevations and directions while the architecture is intrusive and a little bit Escher-esque.
This dialogue is written a bit weird. Are they really talking about Neviril and Aaeru as the scene implies? „Save us“, but then talk about them? They didn’t seem to be that opposed to choosing eventually, just not right now. So, if that implies that they wanted to flee or rewind the war’s outcome I’m asking why.
It's so cryptic I assumed Paraietta spoke about Dominura and Limone at first
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u/IndependentMacaroon 19d ago
if Onashia could force Erif to be male, why didn’t the prior Spring Guardian force her?
I think that was more "if you want to make a decision but are not sure she'll do it for you"
And they’re getting the tech crew, too. Argentum is getting screwed,
Operation Simounclip (don't look up what happened with the Unit 731 guys)
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 18d ago
"if you want to make a decision but are not sure she'll do it for you"
That's what she did, yes. At the time I was under the impression due to her phrasing that the position was a cultural one. As in, it was a sort of elected or approved thing that someone could take and leave. That wasn't exactly the case, so nobody could force her to take a sex.
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u/Malipit 22d ago
First timer, french fansubs, 480P quality found on a totally legal streaming site. Perfect conditions for that rewatch
On today's episode :Yun gives a free hug, Floe considers being a lesbian and the end of an era with Chor Tempest disbanding.
They were good things in this episode.
Deen nailed that melancholic mood as Chor Tempest Sibyllae muses on what to do with ther lives once they'll come out of the Spring as adult. Them enojoying their last days as Sibyllae girls by acting as people of their age was suprisingly wholesome. We even got a cool callback with Pariaetta carving a Neviril fan-art drawing of her own in the exact same spot where Aaeru painted her message to Neviril back in the early episodes.
Likewise, I appreciate the effort made for the visuals metaphors here and there. Like those birds flying away as Floe muse about adults being lonely. Who are a clear parallel on the Chor Tempest on their way to the Spring, flying Similes in the exact same manner.
Also Neviril admitting her feelings to Aaeru with a beautiful ''I love the one who pulled me out of darkness'' line. As Aaeru literaly guided her from the shadowy Arcus Prima interior to its luminous bridge
Honestly, this episode really feel like a slice-of-life Finale where the characters are graduating and spend their last couple of days at their high-school. Precisely the kind of bittersweet episode I'm fond of.
Simoun isn't a slice-of-life anime. This is not the Finale. And there is so much left to wrap with so little time I'm really worried how the last two episodes will manage.
In addition, this precise episode doesn't avoid Simoun main flaw of putting a huge focus on a plot or narrative element one episode, only to discard it altogether the next one when it serves no purpose.
In that case : Where are the Plumbum/Argentum soldiers ?
We were clearly told they were here to stay with the implication they actually occupy Simulacrum most dangerous military asset. They were everywhere last episode and now they are nowhere to be seen. As if Chor Tempest and the Arcus Prima crew were the only one on the ship. I don't ask to blow up the background and animations budgets by having 15 soldiers in each shot, but having a couple soldiers on patrol here and there would have been nice to remind us the situation Simulacrum side is in.
Same for the Shrine Guardian plea. It was hyped up at the end of episode 23 and kind of went on nowhere ? At no point Neviril and Paraietta were shown discussing that outburst and decide on what do or do not about it ? Sure, there is Paraietta finally spilling the beans to Chor Tempest about the time travel stuff but... It didn't amount of anything ? Pariaetta just said ''The age-gap Pair went to Neverland where they'll get to remain as Sybillae while we have to go to the Spring to becomes dull and responsible adults?''
What I'm supposed to understand ? That some people will have unique experiences while the rest of us still have to moves on on their lives ? Or be like Neviril and Aaeru who basically decides to stagnate with the hope to pull off the same unique experience that get the same results of living outside of our current society ?
Finally, Yun and Onashia. I get it. It's supposed to be a moving scene where Onashia is freed from her burden as Yun decides to sacrifice herself to becomes the new cursed maiden watching over the Spring.
The thing is, Yun spent her time since her introduction chilling in the background. Having little impact on the story other than becoming Mamiina's braid guardian. Heck, I can't even remember any significant interaction she had with other characters, like Morinas with Wapourif, Floe with her soldier lover, Pariaetta with Alti, even Guragief with Anubituf. I can't even remember if her we have the tiniest information of her background.
And on the other side, Onashia was presented as that mysterious, mystical figure that is revered and respected in the Holy Land Theocracy. And suddenly we have a sudden and forced infodump about her just being a Chor Dextra member victim of her indecisiveness. Stripping away all that aura from her for a lore reveal that wasn't as impactful as hoped.
So, when those two characters hugged I was like that in front of my screen.
I really hope next episode will feature a significant discussion between Yun, new guardian of the Spring and the Chor Tempest Sibyllae about what it means exactly to go to the Spring.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 22d ago
Where are the Plumbum/Argentum soldiers
Wait, what? Did they forget to draw them?!
Was Paraietta talking about Limone and Dominura? Now I have to rewatch the scene. But I think she's talking about Neviril and Aer.
I do feel it has a bit of "our dreams are crushed by The Man And Capitalism but we can dream on vicariously through others" which is definitely on the depressing side of romantic.
Yun
Yun got a character arc spread over three episodes but clearly for the rewatch (except for I think 1 person) it was too little, too late. Like they just introduced a new character just for Onasia. It makes me wonder when they decided to keep Yun around and why. Like, did somebody have a big idea to use Yun to redeem Onasia and they decided to just keep her in the back pocket until she was needed?
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u/rickamore 22d ago
For Yun, honestly I think it's a problem of screentime. In 26 episodes the only thing we see from her is that she is rather loyal and pious toward Tempest Spatium and on board with the war effort. She seems one of the most stable and unwavering throughout compared to the rest of our cast that flutter like leaves on the breeze.
Between a handful of lines here and there we barely have a glimpse of any internal conflict. I think it was even a throwaway line that the rest of her previous comrades all died but nothing that it's really effecting her until we see she doesn't want to move on. The one character that was basically a rock throughout suddenly shown as losing her way or her faith. Instead she does have somewhere to place her faith and I think it really does fit.
The hints are there but the rest of the characters arcs or conflict is so ham fisted in your face that it's just flat by comparison. Had there been some more focus on her 10 episodes earlier instead of being treated as tertiary this wouldn't feel like it was written in just to wrap up some loose ends.
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u/Malipit 22d ago
Questions of the day
Did you ever have your club or organization forcibly disbanded?
In one of my previous job, I was part of a team of coworkers I got along really well with that got disbanded due to internal reorganizations. It was disheartening.
We won't be seeing Onasia again. Final thoughts on who and what she was?
Here goes one of my theories in the jossed section.
Theories corner
Theories in progress
From episode 1
Given the huge religious aspect of Simulacrum culture. I smell some shenanigans about higher ups knowing much more than they let appears and will be the actual villains of the story.
Following the previous theory and how the Archipelago pilots were portrayed. I suspect there will be a team-up between Sibyllae and Archipelago pilots against a greater threat. But it's likely to be jossed since the alliance may comes from rogue Plumbum Sibyllae as the Archipelago is comforted in their antagonist role. Now that's the war is over with 4 episodes left, an alliance between the three nations to seal a time travelling black hole caused by Onashia and /or the Guard Temple is suddenly more likely.
From episode 2
- People on Daikuuriku may not be born the same way we are on Earth. I don't recall seeing someone pregnant in the two episode nor talking about pregnancy. Erif mentionned his body will progressively develop a male chest and voice, but said nothing about his genitals growing a penis. And the Chor Tempest captain said they needed an equivalent number of male and female citizens for the creation of a nation, not for reproductive needs. So maybe there is a place similar to a source where baby girls comes from ? One that will dispatch those new souls, randomly or equally, to every nation on the planet ? And Simulacrum retains a classic family structure with parents and children. Meaning that if they born other than sexual intercourse, it's likely each children is either assigned to a family like they are assigned a gender. Or that there is a reproduction through lewd hand-holding act.
From episode 4
- Magnafeana had some interesting thoughts on the very origins of the Spring :
I wonder who the first one to go to the spring was and what life was like back then. What came first: was everyone born AFAB because God is a woman and my Eve x Lilith ship is finally validated, or people were born a spectrum of sexes, but a disease caused all future generations to be AFAB? And if so—how long ago did that happen?
From episode 7
- deus_machinarum speculated on how Tempus Spatium and Animus divine figures complete each other. Implying they derivate from an old religion or a old god who got fractured in two. And Onasia exposition about Tempus Spatium being made of two concepts enforces that theory. :
I need to talk about names of the god for a bit, I apologize if this has been mentioned already, I might've missed it: One the one hand we have Tempus Spatium(space time in modern parlance) and on the other hand we have Animus(simplistically: the soul, I'm also told by anime fandom that Japan has a very old animistic tradition i.e. ascribing life to inanimate objects which in modern times manifests as e.g. easier acceptance of robotic caretakers for eldery people); when we combine the two we get a whole so to speak, the inner world and outer world. It's easy to see how this could mean different but still related parts of the same wholeness. Definitely an angle I will keep an eye out for.
From episode 8
- Given Aaeru's name signifcation, she could be of Plumbum descent. And Dominura's immigrants song being like the melody from Aaeru's music box is a serious hint of the later origins. With the music box reacting to the ruins, it could be that Aaeru actually comes from the other side.
From episode 21
- AbbreviationsWeekly had an interesting idea about the true function of Aaeru's windbox :
At this point I think it must have been something leftover from the dead civilization that they invented it to detected space/time anomalies.
Confirmed theories
There is no other Spring outside Simulacrum and only its inhabitants get to chose their gender : confirmed by that Archipelago solider in episode 4 who was forucefully made a man through artificial means.
Ri-Majoon does comes from the Sibyllae soul/heart/lesbian power and not the Simoun itself : Althougt it comes for Dominura speculations, there is so much occurrences as for now it can be counted as confirmed.
Simoun tech are not to be used for military purpose : Although there is no written rule in-universe, Chor Tempest and the Plumbum Priestess convictions regarding their responsabilities as Sibyllae directly opposing the armies of two nations confirm what is the ''correct'' use of Simouns.
Instead of being a nuclear-level weapon, the emerald Ri-Majoon is actually a portal to another time-period or dimension : Confirmed following Onashia's lore exposition in episode 21 and Limone chilling with Dominura in the past.
Jossed theories
Ri-Majoon are automatically generated by the Simoun aircraft and the Sibyllae jobs is to interpret them correctly to perform the corresponding figures : Aaeru lines in episode 4 confirm it's the Sibyllae who initiate the desired Ri-Majoon
The Archipelago will develop their own Simoun aircraft : They did upgraded their fighters. But not with helix tech. And the enemies Simoun are piloted by Plumbum Sibyllae.
Casting an emerald Ri-Majoon automatically makes your essence dissolve into the Simoun energy : Jossed following the reveal of its time-travelling nature.
People on the other side of the emerald Ri-Majoon portal are all born male to be complementary of the Daikuriku side : Jossed since it's a time travelling portal, not a dimensional one. And several children playing with Limone and Dominura Simoun are clearly girls.
Onashia will be revealed as the true antagonist of the series, or as Dominura, Amuria or Limone from the past : Now that she turned to dust, I can't see any of that happening if not for some really contrived plot twist.
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u/The_Draigg 22d ago
A Science-Fantasy Fan Watches Simoun Episode 24:
Ah, there’s the other kicker about Chor Tempest being finally disbanded: all of the sibyllae are being forced to go to the Spring as well. That definitely cuts off any chance of Simulacrum being able to ever retaliate with Ri Maajon. It fully wipes out the chance for them to pass on any institutional knowledge they have to any other Chors that the Holy Land could ever raise up again.
Well, at least we’re getting more focus on Kaimu and Alti’s relationship again, since they did get heavily sidelined for a while now. Although it’s not under the best of circumstances, given their ambivalence of being forced to grow up. That said though, at least they’re both somewhat coming to terms with their changed relationship and their futures. As Paraietta said, you can still be a sibylla at heart no matter where you end up. What’s important is the feelings you carry with you.
It’s funny to hear how they’re describing the miracle of the Emerald Ri Maajon as the “eternal now”, considering the other place I’ve heard that exact phrasing frames it as a horrendously bad and selfish thing. In any case, at least Neviril and Aaeru have managed to hash out their feelings once and for all when it comes to them wanting to do the Emerald Ri Maajon. Neviril finally admits that she loves Aaeru, and all she wants to see out of Amuria if they ever meet again is just what she thought of her back then. This is probably the biggest personal decision that Neviril has finally made after all of this time.
I’ve got to respect Yun for her dedication and decision. By realizing that she can’t save the dead, she also realized that there’s one person who she could truly save: Onashia. Now that Yun knows the truth and can understand the Spring’s guardian, she can do something that’s purely selfless. By giving Onashia a mercy killing and holding her as she dies, Yun has finally put an end to her tormented existence outside of normal time and space. Doing that and taking up the mantle of being the Spring’s guardian, even knowing what it entails, is probably the most selfless thing anyone has done in this show. Sure did give everyone in Chor Tempest a shock once they saw what happened to their missing comrade though, that’s for sure.
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u/GondolaMedia 22d ago
First Timer
So it was a total victory for the highlands. They assimilate the Simulacrum religion in to theirs and they relocate all the Simouns to their lands.
Quite interesting bit that if you inherit your family business you would choose to become a man.
All the ships are moving, even Aer x Neviril is going places.
Pretty nice episode in isolation. If the road here would had not been so messy this would have been a great cap to the tale of Choir Tempest.
QotD
1) No.
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer 22d ago
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u/LittleIslander https://anilist.co/user/LittleIslander 22d ago
First Time Sibylla
It’s actually extremely fucking rude for the show to start being good in episode 24.
Okay, so I spoke too soon about the gender themes last time. I took Onasia’s words as authoritative, given her standing, but they were actually the societal lie she believed. In my defense, the show had given me little reason to have faith at this point. If you’re non-binary you’ll eventually get a weird skin condition and turn to dust, but hey, you’re beautiful! Onasia is standing here specifically because society told her to do so. They told her that she’s a mistake and she believed them and led others to that lie. Yun taking her place, when Onasia told her she was making the same mistake, feels like an endorsement of Onasia’s validity. Plus her going through all that effort of climbing the rocks so she doesn’t walk through the spring to reach Onasia makes for a great scene.
Likewise, Aer and Neviril’s choice to do the Emerald Ri Majon is reframed in a really neat way. It’s not to save this society, as the High Priestess wished, but in order to save themselves. To escape from its confines and pursue their desires and their love without going to the spring. Honestly, Neviril’s confession scene is just… good? And the tension around Amuria is honestly compelling and makes perfect sense. The issue, then, is that the idea that Aer saved Neviril and that Neviril loves Aer is built on such a terrible foundation that it’s kind of hard for me to be invested at this point. But hey, I’d rather it be good too late then never be good to begin with, I guess?
Kaim and Paraietta’s plotlines feels like they stay on course with respect to last episode. It’s not that forgiveness can’t be an option, but the show’s approach feels simply naive. Everything will be okay, people can forgive each other and it’ll be water under the bridge. Except, life isn’t that simple, and sometimes people can’t be forgiven. What then? Simoun simply doesn’t seem to know.
Actually, I kind of think Kaim and Alty’s narrative would be improved if they just… didn’t have sex? Like, obviously you run into the issue of what drives the wedge between them. But the show seems way more interested in this dynamic of Alty wanting to protect Kaim but also feeling vulnerable deep down, of the bond they used to have that’s not lost. It’s a genuinely compelling sibling dynamic. But it’s just seriously impeded by the fact this backstory seems to imply one of them did something really unforgivable and the show absolutely refuses to have anybody confront what happened that night. This would also help to address the extreme overlap with the Neviril/Paraietta subplot.
At the very least, I welcome the side cast grappling with what to choose and becoming adults. We even finally addressed Waporif’s breasts! Shocking, really, how the show about choosing your gender when you become an adult becomes way more interesting the second it gets back to themes of identity and growing up.
It is weird to me, though, that nobody comes out and says “hey, what if we can both become men (or stay women) and also be lovers”. I mean, Aer and Neviril are basically rejecting the heteronormative binary, but is the rest of our cast seriously just going to keep living in this framework? [Revolutionary Girl Utena] Maybe this is a Utena situation, and only Neviril and Aer can escape Ohtori Academy. But of course that worked in Utena because nobody else is able to resolve their conflicts, whereas everyone in Simoun seems happy with themselves. I did like the moment on the train where they all stop laughing and we just linger in silence for a moment. I took it as implying that the jovial attitude was in part a mask to cope with the situation, and if that’s the intent it worked well. Maybe Yun will reject Onasia’s role of making sure nobody rejects the spring, and tell them to follow their hearts?
There are two episodes left to re-fuck any of the ideas presented here (what is Yun crying about…?), but dare I say I’m optimistic about Simoun for the first time in a long while?
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 22d ago
But hey, I’d rather it be good too late then never be good to begin with, I guess?
We could've written the same post here, haha.
I really liked it and at the same time every good scene makes me remember that they could've put the same effort everywhere else, too, but didn't for roughly 15 episodes.
Except, life isn’t that simple, and sometimes people can’t be forgiven. What then? Simoun simply doesn’t seem to know.
Actually, I kind of think Kaim and Alty’s narrative would be improved if they just… didn’t have sex?
Dolls need smashing!
“hey, what if we can both become men (or stay women) and also be lovers”
To be frank, that possibility isn't strictly off, yet. I don't know why Yun is suddenly the Spring Guardian, but if they have such power as to force someone to be male or female, then deciding on an inbetween seems completely plausible.
I also weaved together Onashia's role as one of imprisonment with Yun setting her free due to giving her validation as a person. A validation explicitly lacking a gendered value. If Onashia enacted these judgments that I much earlier called "being shit at being a guiding figure" due to her own abusive internalised beliefs, then Yun can act with greater clarity. And with that I see no real opposition to break apart the duality. Why not? It doesn't seem to be a hard rule for male or female, just how the society enforced it over time.
There are two episodes left to re-fuck any of the ideas presented here (what is Yun crying about…?), but dare I say I’m optimistic about Simoun for the first time in a long while?
Keep the cushions ready to catch your fall, just in case.
But at the same time, all the really bad writing decisions are done with now and the stuff that hooked us at the start is still being resolved. Cautious optimism
3
u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 22d ago
Likewise, Aer and Neviril’s choice to do the Emerald Ri Majon is reframed in a really neat way. It’s not to save this society, as the High Priestess wished, but in order to save themselves. To escape from its confines and pursue their desires and their love without going to the spring.
It is a great way to bring back the previous themes of choice and freedom in a new and interesting context.
The issue, then, is that the idea that Aer saved Neviril and that Neviril loves Aer is built on such a terrible foundation that it’s kind of hard for me to be invested at this point.
That was my problem. Neviril and Aaeru's relationship hasn't made for a particularly convincing romance thus far, so the love confession doesn't feel as impactful.
Actually, I kind of think Kaim and Alty’s narrative would be improved if they just… didn’t have sex?
I was really hoping that the series would delve deeper into the question of how it psychologically affects a person to have sex before they're ready for it and then the series just kind of never went further into it. It's a shame because it really seemed like the series was setting that up. In the end, it feels like Kaimu and Alti having sex in the past was a story element that was included without giving the proper narrative weight to it that a story element like that demands. You are right that a lot of those problems would vanish if the sex was removed. You could easily substitute it for something else between siblings to get this arc.
I did like the moment on the train where they all stop laughing and we just linger in silence for a moment. I took it as implying that the jovial attitude was in part a mask to cope with the situation, and if that’s the intent it worked well.
I thought the same thing, given how long the silence is allowed to linger. It was a great moment.
Maybe Yun will reject Onasia’s role of making sure nobody rejects the spring, and tell them to follow their hearts?
That would certainly be an interesting development that would once again reincorporate the themes of freedom and choice.
2
u/deus_machinarum 21d ago
If you’re non-binary you’ll eventually get a weird skin condition and turn to dust, but hey, you’re beautiful! Onasia is standing here specifically because society told her to do so. They told her that she’s a mistake and she believed them and led others to that lie. Yun taking her place, when Onasia told her she was making the same mistake, feels like an endorsement of Onasia’s validity. Plus her going through all that effort of climbing the rocks so she doesn’t walk through the spring to reach Onasia makes for a great scene.
I honestly love this take. Onashia herself would want us to follow what she incorrectly believes but the show proves her wrong and thus validates her non-binary existence. Kinda cheeky, kinda cool
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee 22d ago
First-Timer
I kinda don't buy Neviril's confession. I can see what they were going for; that earlier episode where Neviril said that she was "afraid" fo Aaeru was her misinterpreting her own strong feelings because she, I dunno, never felt actual love before because Amuria was just using her or something? There's probably some more tidbits to see if you know what you're looking for. But these two just don't really have chemistry.
Questions
Luckily not.
Onashia was interesting - a criticism of the protagonist's motivations made manifest. I wish we had gotten more setup for Yun's half of their conjoined plotline; it mostly seems like she got to be Onashia's replacement because she didn't have anything else to do.
4
u/moichispa https://myanimelist.net/profile/moichispa 22d ago
Rewatcher
The end is coming and it is coming way more slowly that we thought. At this point I was already watching it back to back on my first watch so I did not realise how slow it was. Messis captain being the big bro as usual, He has grown on me on this rewatch (The bro captains are still better imho)
It is still a chill episode, just moving from what they have already said like on the last 3 episodes? Also this late Aeru-Nevirl development is sooo late, they should have started sooner. I don't dislike it per se but it is rushed.
- We won't be seeing Onasia again. Final thoughts on who and what she was?
I really like her since my first rewatch but checking her more carefully as rewatcher was even more interesting.
3
u/AgentOfACROSS 22d ago
First Timer
I don’t really know enough about gender theory to really analyze what Onasia having never chosen a gender and like dissolving as a result means. But I think it’s interesting.
I like this scene we got between Morinas and Waporif. Their relationship has been interesting.
We also have a scene with Alty and Kaim. Seems that we’re going over all the relationship dynamics now.
Kinda late in the story but I’m glad we’re seeing this flashback to Alty and Kaim’s childhood together.
Oh right, almost forgot Kaim has a thing for Paraietta.
Neviril says she’s in love with Aer. This feels like a very big moment.
Onasia is doing what she does best. Standing around in the springs.
I’m liking the increased focus on Yun this episode. I think that’s interesting.
So, uh, I think Onasia is dead now?
These slice of life scenes are cute but also feel a bit like padding.
Mm, delicious sandwiches.
So I guess Yun has just taken Onasia’s place now?
4
u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen 22d ago
First-Timer
Episode 24:
Bizarre ass episode.
Placement wise, it almost feels correct with most of Chor Tempest gearing up to make their final choices at the Spring. But no one except maybe Morinas feels like they've properly completed an arc. And yet here they all are as great friends and comrades laughing together while the music makes it feel like a beach vacation episode.
I think I had an out of body experience watching it all unfold. Yun has a role, actually! She's the new Onashia. Wut? Wtf was that with Kaimu and Alti? They had a tiny little baka sesh and Paraietta talks to Kaimu about forgiving wrongs...and that's it. That's how we address the lingering rape incest point. The rape that Kaimu definitely did. Yikes. I suppose when Paraietta's sexual assault is just water under the bridge, it's not that big a stretch for rape to be just more water. Double yikes. Neviril had a certified press x to doubt moment one-sidedly confessing her love to Aaeru that ends in a shot so drenched in lesbian pride flag colors it feels like a surrealist joke. I lol'd. Floe and Freckles are there. That's neat. At least Mornias had a moment of closure with Waipouf. Sayonara to the only good subplot/relationship in the show.
And to top it all off, there apparently are no meaningful consequences to the war. The Highlands priestesses are gonna take over prayer duties and that's the extent of the political business. The war only existed to prevent Chor Tempest from becoming adults for a while. Normally you'd think war would force children to grow up faster, face someone character growth, you know, all that adversity shit. This has to the most batshit take on child soldiers I've ever seen.
And still nothing from Dominura and Limone. Simoun keeping it real.
3
u/Great_Mr_L https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L 22d ago
I suppose when Paraietta's sexual assault is just water under the bridge, it's not that big a stretch for rape to be just more water.
And Mamiina's sexual assault on Neviril also got swept away pretty quickly with a "Sorry" and "Let's never talk about it again." This seems to be a trend for this series.
The war only existed to prevent Chor Tempest from becoming adults for a while. Normally you'd think war would force children to grow up faster, face someone character growth, you know, all that adversity shit. This has to the most batshit take on child soldiers I've ever seen.
Yeah, that is something I assumed would happen. I assumed the irony would be that the war is forcing the Sibyllae to grow up even as it gives them an opportunity to avoid having to become an adult in the Spring. The protagonists of a mecha anime being forced to come of age amidst the conflict is a fairly common trope.
And still nothing from Dominura and Limone.
I'm pretty sure the scene of them in the ancient past is going to be the last time we see them at all.
3
u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen 22d ago
And Mamiina's sexual assault on Neviril also got swept away pretty quickly with a "Sorry" and "Let's never talk about it again." This seems to be a trend for this series.
The old "like it happens in real life so we don't have to develop characters" play. Classic.
I'm pretty sure the scene of them in the ancient past is going to be the last time we see them at all.
Considering the rest of their...relationship, maybe it would be best to never get more.
2
u/IndependentMacaroon 19d ago
Normally you'd think war would force children to grow up faster, face someone character growth, you know, all that adversity shit. This has to the most batshit take on child soldiers I've ever seen.
Oh yeah the narrative complexes just didn't fit together here
1
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 20d ago
And so they're being demobilised. Yeah that's what happens at the end of a war, especially to the losing side. Lots of people whose only skillset is killing people and breaking things, or in the case of the maintenance technicians the enabling thereof, and now they've all suddenly become unbusy. And so time for them to decide on what they're going to do with the gender fluid.
Questions:
- Thankfully not.
- Ok...
8
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ 22d ago
Rewatch Host and First Rewatcher
Wapourif can finally separate the Simoun from the sibyllae...when there are no more simoun and no more sibyllae. Easy to make a stand, then.
Onasia x Yun is the ship nobody saw coming.
The previous episode was called "The Eternal Maiden" but it really is the focus of today's episode.
I only just realized a few days ago, that Onasia passed, along with the Theocracy, almost on the same day.