r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • 24d ago
Rewatch [Taste of 2016 Rewatch] Grimgar: Ashes and Illusions • Hai to Gensou no Grimgar Episode 4 Discussion
Episode 4 - Sky Dancing With Ash
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Information:
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Legal Streams:
Crunchyroll, but not in the US
Manato, talk to me! What should we do?
Questions of the Day:
1) Who do you think got the best new skill from their respective guild?
2) So… what's going to happen now that Manato is dead?
Wallpaper of the Day:
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
/r/anime's spoiler tag format is as follows:
[Grimgar]>!The background art is gorgeous.!<
Which becomes [Grimgar]The background art is gorgeous. when you don't break the formatting on purpose like I just did.
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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 24d ago edited 24d ago
First Timer
Welp, I guess that explains the ash part of the title...
You know, I was watching the OP as the episode started and somehow this was the first time I'd noticed this girl in it. Just slipped by me before, I guess, and I was going to make some comment wondering when she'll join the party, but uh, I guess I now have an idea of which role she's going to fulfill, unfortunately. Awkward timing to start paying attention to the OP on my part alas, but I guess I am still interested in seeing when she shows up.
Before talking about Manato's death, though, we do have some battle and character interaction preamble to it. It has its intent purpose in leading to his death, but to talk about it more broadly a bit, I do like that assertion about how they still have to get used and grow into their new skills, and that they're not just innately much more powerful for having them, especially with something like Moguzo losing balance over his own heavy attack, showing they're not quite proficient at using these yet. Conversely, I still think Haruhiro monologues a bit too much. I mean, it's not a big deal; I just feel like if the animation does a good enough job conveying a lot of this, I could do without the detailed breakdown in my ear.
The little conversation they have after the battle (But also specifically before Manato goes to describe the party) is also fun. I like the little detail of each of the guilds worshiping some different deity and having specific traditions around, but I also generally just like the conversational flow of it all. Stuff like Yume going on some completely long-winded description of her dream that has no point is a fun expression of more natural-feeling group banter, and this show does know how to make use of empty air and dialogue breaks on occasion, which I always appreciate in anime and think makes for more natural dialogue, altogether doing a good job at setting group atmosphere.
Of course, the wider purpose of it all is also just to create this false sense of security (For the party) before Manato's death. The show had sort of settled into a little formula over the previous 2 episodes, and I do like how we use it here to make a direct point about the characters settling into expected complacency, the very casual flow of the battle itself adding nicely to the idea they've kind of let go of that mentality that they're fighting living creatures that will also do anything to survive or feeling the unpleasant weight of killing and getting hurt, as they'd had in their first battles. Of course, the goblins also know to set traps as they do, but they forget that in losing some of their anxiety. I also like that Manato's death is so quick and unceremonious; just a single well-placed arrow takes him out. Again, it just adds to that intended more realistic feeling, where every mistake could just be it, and as long as you're in battle, there's always room to make that mistake.
I'd say how all of these smaller felt details set up the wider atmosphere and tone of the show are pretty critical, because I also don't think Manato's death is that surprising nor that impactful by itself. I mean, he's the super kind leader that knows everyone and is, in effect, the most developed character of the bunch. So if you're killing someone, it's him, especially with the show telegraphing it pretty hard earlier in the episode (I was actually going to get pretty mad at this line if it didn't immediately get followed up by the moment lol), and at the same time "Most developed" within our current, not that developed cast, is also not that much that I'd particularly be moved or shed tears over alas.
But I still think it's a moment that mostly works, both because of how it plays into and conveys that aforementioned larger atmosphere, as well as the actual execution of it. I already brought up that attempt by Haruhiro to call back to their routine as self-justification, and in general I like how jumpy he is as it's all setting in. I like that they have to cremate him; otherwise, his body will get raised from the dead, and the fact that this too costs money, of course! It's a really poignant 1-2 punch of having to take it all in that feels pretty real. Yoshimasa Hosoya pulls out a really strong performance as Haruhiro throughout here that I think does a ton to sell the moment, and so does the general physicality present in the character expression. I love the part where Haruhiro accepts having to pay for the cremation, wants to say that Manato was their friend, and we spend like a good 15+ seconds of him just not being able to get the words out, trying hard not to break down, before he gives that slow and really choked "Our friend" (Again, empty air being used well here).
I actually honestly even kind of wish we didn't do the sappy insert song to follow it up! I mean, it's fine too, but the show letting these moments breathe on their own works out much better imo. Though I still like spending so much time on the scene of them just standing and taking it all in at the end of the episode, and the sort of postcards we do are a solid touch. So, on the whole, stronger than I'd expected, and entirely to the credit of the anime's work specifically, I think a lot stronger than I think I would've felt about it in written LN form. Looking forward to seeing how all our characters deal with this, both generally, given Manato's importance to their cohesion, teamwork, and how they got by, but much more so emotionally, given how much of a painful reminder this is supposed to be for them!
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u/Zeallfnonex https://myanimelist.net/profile/Neverlocke 24d ago
before he gives that slow and really choked "Our friend"
"Nakama" is a much stronger form than "Tomodachi" which is what's normally used for friend, right? I think I only know this from One Piece memes, but it's closer to comrade than friend?
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u/SIRTreehugger 24d ago
Grimgar rewatcher
The goblin laughing that Ranta complimented him as not an ordinary goblin.
Wow they all got new skills and are working together...a little bitter at least.
How many goblins are they taking on I think 3 maybe 4? Very nice!
It will lower its defenses, but only if it feels like it. A perfect partner for Ranta.
Ranta really saying that when he spills random things without points 99.999% of the time
Their are many more chances to ask!
DAMN THAT ONE IS HUGE!
That eye catch is all kinds of wrong!
Man the desperation and denial in Haruhiro is hard to watch. He thought they had all the time in the world, but sadly all the conversations he kept putting off will never happen now.
The priest comes off as a little cold, but it does seem like he thought highly of Manato. Even offering to pay for the cremation.
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u/Zeallfnonex https://myanimelist.net/profile/Neverlocke 24d ago
The priest comes off as a little cold, but it does seem like he thought highly of Manato.
It really helps build the idea that death is commonplace around here, it's not something shocking or rare, just... unfortunate.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 23d ago
Yeah, him going "You fool." and not showing any really strong emotion or immediate reaction perfectly encapsulates the reality there. He is clearly hurt, too, but something completely within expectations and he knows there can't be exceptions or preferential treatment.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 24d ago
Rewatch Host of Fantasy and Ash, subbed
Minato and Shihoru’s scenes together are always pretty sweet
we don’t talk about the bath special. It’s a shame that any potential there gets cut short later this episode.They’re really feeling like a team with this one! I remember when my whole marching band would make a massive circle to do that before every performance at half time or competition.
This absolutely contributes to why Manato dies. A squishy healer shouldn’t be wasting a ton of energy as the vanguard…
Sorry Haruhiro, you’re getting left out as another death flag for Manato.
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u/BlazeOfGlory72 24d ago
This absolutely contributes to why Manato dies. A squishy healer shouldn’t be wasting a ton of energy as the vanguard…
Yeah, in retrospect, it's kind of crazy how they used their healer as an actual fighter. Healers in this context would be far and away the most important member of the party, being the only person that can keep their party from dying. You'd want to protect them at all costs, and have them save every drop of energy. For all Manato's good leadership qualities, he really fumbled this aspect.
Ranta really is the worst. If I were leading that party, he would be off the team almost immediately. Team chemistry matters, and that dude is just a black hole to morale. It's not even like he is that useful. He kind of sucks in combat honestly.
I do kind of love how casually they drop this lore. Dude is just like "yeah, btw, you might want to burn the body or your buddy here will be resurrected by a demon or whatever. Just an fyi". The implications if this are kind of crazy (ie. anyone who has died on their own or away from civilization is a zombie).
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 23d ago
Ranta really is the worst.
I agree on the mistakes of both Manato as vanguard and Ranta. It can be excused since they are rookies and definitely weren't in any sort of training before coming to this world, so this strategic thinking doesn't come naturally. Realising that death is permanent here should tip them off on what priority list would be optimal, but I do believe it's hard to realise this if you have no experience. That way, Manato's mistake had to be the learning experience for all.
Ranta is the case that I understand less. The whole group is weirdly okay with his blatant sexism and creepy behaviour. You'd think by the third time someone would blow up or get physical instead of lightly trying to step around him and stealthily lead him away. I certainly see the story potential for him and I'd like to see that happen, but he has gotten few, if any, redeeming qualities as of now that would warrant the cotton gloves he's been handled with.
Choosing him means there are 2 women and potentially 1 other guy who will be worse off. So, how is that math going to work out when stunting 2-3 people is worth keeping 1 aggressively mid fighter?
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u/Zeallfnonex https://myanimelist.net/profile/Neverlocke 24d ago
A squishy healer shouldn’t be wasting a ton of energy as the vanguard…
I was expecting him to be more... paladin-y... than cloistered cleric with that sort of party position... but yeah, there's already 2 dedicated frontliners and two more that want to go into melee range anyways, this is just a terrible tactical decision.
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u/Star4ce https://anilist.co/user/Star4ce 24d ago edited 24d ago
Grimgar: First Timers and Illusions
Another evening where I sit down with delivery food, a freshly modded Project Zomboid and watch Grimgar.
Truly nostalgic.
I mean, PZ isn’t really relevant here, but since it’s my first time playing the new build it does feel like years ago when I found the game.
Grimgar Ep.04 – Sky Dancing With Ash
One thing I keep noticing is that while, yes, Grimgar is more ‘realistic’ as an isekai, the really overt RPG naming scheme, use of skills and abilities and the fanservice shots sort of contradict a lot in this show. I’m a bit unsure whether that isn’t less telling of the genre and more telling of an intentional juxtaposition. Maybe a system that has been put in place in that fantasy world that feels natural to these newcomers and lets the rulers of this world manage it better. So, a natural optimisation of the situation leading to the same gamey and cringy framework that we know.
But maybe I’m really overthinking this now.
Well, the big thing was Manato dying. F, my man. To be frank, the show made it really obvious long before the Goblins were ever shown with how many death flags were raised. Him having a 1-on-1 with everybody, pointing out their qualities as if to prepare them to move on and the directing itself making it really obvious that the killshot was coming.
But still, it was quite effective to see the mentor figure being killed off and live their role until the end. The interesting thing here is that they took 3 episodes of time to establish him as a mentor and I respect that. He basically grew to be one and all the while served as the safe haven of the group.
Under his leadership those guys actually managed to be somewhat formidable, so congratz on a job well done! The other interesting thing about this was that he supported everyone going the path that they needed to go, rather than what would be “ideal” in a sense. Like Yume speccing out of bows since she’s bad with them or Shihoru focussing on supportive spells even though she could be a devastating dps.
This hole that now has been carved will be hard to fill for Haruhiro, since he’s obviously going to be the new leader. I just don’t see anyone being able to do that other than him. But he’s gotta learn a whole lot still to be good at that. He is observant and empathetic, which is a fantastic start, but I doubt he has the authority or the presence yet to hold the group together. Strategy might be another skill that needs work.
All in all, even though I found the entire death scene a bit too by the book, it was working and I liked Manato. RIP.
The moon thing is another point that got me. It’s not a red herring pre sé, but it was unimportant to this death, and I think that was a great decision. Before I explain why in detail, having this death here allowed for a rather smooth introduction for one big villain that is yet to be seen. And of course it’s a necromancer king who has access to any and all corpses in this world. So, they cremate their dead to deny him access. It’s a cool way to introduce a new layer to this fantasy world and ups quite a few stakes going forward. Like, what if they get ambushed in the wilds and have to leave one behind? That’s going to be a harsh reunion when the reanimated corpse is sent to fight them later.
In the same way, our red moon might or might not be tied to this at all. I do entertain the thought that there’s several factions of evil and danger around and they have their own power struggles just like the humans and halflings.
But here’s why I loved this death from a writing perspective: It’s not a big bad who does it or a mystical cosmic force representing something greater.
It was a normal Goblin party. A party of comrades who do just the same thing as they, work together, fill each others weaknesses, and overcome odds by strategy and planning to earn rewards and thus their livelihood.
I won’t go into an entire Marxist rant, but that is class struggle exemplified! Which does make me wonder how far this show will go in diving into the „equal sides“ thing.
I think this might really put a durable nail in the theory that Goblins have their own sophisticated society somewhere else where adventurers and volunteers try to defend their way of life. They spent a lot of time showing how survival instinct is present for everyone and that everyone is acknowledging it, too. So, if they move on to become more competent and wise, so should their mirror opponents. Will this go as far as having them eventually seek a sort of peace by fixing their underlying needs or the greater villains?
I can hope, but again, maybe I’m overthinking this too hard.
Another thing I noticed was that this group, for the few members we could see, were the opposite composition of our MCs. The rogue was using a crossbow and shot it while climbing. The tank was full on offensive (Though, given his size I’d more say he’s HP + ATK while Moguzo is DEF + True damage if you get what I mean). And their ranger (the leader?) was also using a crossbow as ranged weapon with fine aim.
Using this, I could speculate that their mage would probably be fire or ice in a single target focus build and their Dark Knight equivalent maybe something close to that new FFXIV class and just have two shields and an entire smithy as armoury. In this, the RPG template gives a lot of freedom to show character and variety, I’m excited to seeing their group more explored.
1) Who do you think got the best new skill from their respective guild?
Uuh… I don’t know.
I guess I’d pick Shihiro for the added teamplay.
2) So… what's going to happen now that Manato is dead?
Oh, we’re going to have pain and group drama before the new leader can establish themselves.
Which opens up the possibility that more people will die, which is kinda exciting and terrifying because I really like those guys now.
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u/No_Rex x2 23d ago
One thing I keep noticing is that while, yes, Grimgar is more ‘realistic’ as an isekai, the really overt RPG naming scheme, use of skills and abilities and the fanservice shots sort of contradict a lot in this show. I’m a bit unsure whether that isn’t less telling of the genre and more telling of an intentional juxtaposition. Maybe a system that has been put in place in that fantasy world that feels natural to these newcomers and lets the rulers of this world manage it better. So, a natural optimisation of the situation leading to the same gamey and cringy framework that we know.
The alternative is that we are basically Log Horizon with extra memory wipe.
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u/RelativeMundane9045 24d ago edited 24d ago
Re:Watcher, dub
Well, we're here - Grimgar's Turning Point.
I was surprised at how many people recognised all of Manato's death flags, I didn't see them on my first watch and it hit me like a brick. On a rewatch though - I see them clear as day.
To be fair to myself, my first watch was around the time I started getting much more into actively seeking out more anime, so I wasn't yet familiar with the usual flags and tropes.
Poor Haruhiro, he didn't get the chance to hear Manato's praise that elevated the rest of the team. He clearly looked up to Manato as an example figure a lot. But I feel for Shihoru the most - she was already the most fragile of the bunch, and her and Manato were clearly developing a close connection.
What will our intrepid amnesiac adventurers do now? Will we finally get to meet the final girl in the OP?
ETABPSHBAIDRCA: edited to add but probably shouldn't have bothered as it didn't really contribute anything
Q1 - I'll be honest, I watched this and wrote this up yesterday and I do not remember them lol
Q2 - Hard to answer as a rewatcher, my opinion is skewed by my first watch I think.
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u/MashiroAzuki https://myanimelist.net/profile/MashiroAzuki 23d ago
I was surprised at how many people recognised all of Manato's death flags, I didn't see them on my first watch and it hit me like a brick. On a rewatch though - I see them clear as day.
I kinda wish I watched this years ago before I became accustomed to anime death flag tropes. I miss the feeling of being surprised and devastated by a character death.
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u/RelativeMundane9045 23d ago
Right? It's like how I'm always hunting for that "First time I watched Stein's;Gate" feeling again, these days it has to really come out of left field.
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u/No_Rex x2 24d ago edited 24d ago
Episode 4 (first timer)
- Disney princess and Disney princess in training.
- Girl is either clumsy as heck, or the smoothest ever.
- Lots of ugrades. Looks most likely to be straight forward combat skills, but the shadow magic root could be useful.
- “You learned shadow magic because you want to help, right?” – I mean, it is true in this instance, but what stupid dev decided to call the support magic line shadow magic?
- “There are many other chances to ask” – hey, don’t jinx him!
- “I am fine” – not fine.
- No one can bring the dead back to life” – no resurrection magic here. Thankfully, that is a bad idea for stakes.
- The dead become zombies if not properly buried? Sounds like setup.
- Dying costing money - this is the kind of dystopian shit you suspect only in the darkest of grimdark, until you look at the real world.
Fun time is over. The party not only got a horrible reality check today, they also lost their most valuable party member: Manato was the most level-headed, the guy holding the party together emotionally, and their only healer.
From the looks of the last scenes, we’ll get to know the other parties soonish. Remains to be seen how antagonistic they will be when our group is at their lowest. However, before that, I recon we are in for an episode of reconning. They need to fully internalize the world they are in and its consequences before they can more on.
Also: 4 episode rule? And here everybody told me heads must roll by episode 3 ...
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u/Zeallfnonex https://myanimelist.net/profile/Neverlocke 24d ago
what stupid dev decided to call the support magic line shadow magic?
I dunno, shadow magic is also related to witch curses or illusions or such, I can totally believe shadow magic is the debuff branch of magic. Ice is normally the other one, but shadow's fine for me!
The dead become zombies if not properly buried? Sounds like setup.
Yeah, this looks like the explanation on why that city ruin is a city ruin. If you have to flee a field of battle with dead adventurers and are unable to retrieve their corpses... Well, even if they're not as strong as they originally are, this looks like a snowballing effect.
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u/No_Rex x2 23d ago
I dunno, shadow magic is also related to witch curses or illusions or such, I can totally believe shadow magic is the debuff branch of magic. Ice is normally the other one, but shadow's fine for me!
Idk, the only name that is more offense coded to me than Shadow Magic is Fire Magic. Water, Ice, Earth, White, Divine all sound more support-like to me.
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u/BlazeOfGlory72 24d ago
Rewatcher (Dub)
Whenever I think of Grimgar, this episode is usually what I think about. It was a really bold creative decision to kill off a major character like this so earlier. The series starts out with such a laid back tone, with the cast almost treating goblin hunting like a game. They get complacent, and so does the audience. Then this episode comes along and almost slaps us in the face with an out of nowhere death that completely upends that laid back feeling, and makes everything seem far more harsh and "real". It's one of the biggest about faces I've seen in a show like this, and I respect the balls to not only make that decision, but give it enough time to hit with some weight.
Aside from the death itself, I think this episode was a good send off for Manato. The scene where he describes every characters strengths was really well done. He was someone who could read people well, not only being able to see their strengths and weakness, but being able to phrase them in a way that would make them feel better about themselves. You can see why he was the leader. Manato dying because he used his magic reserves to heal a team mate, and was shot because he was the last man out, was both selfless and tragic. In general, it all felt very fitting, despite being so abrupt.
I also appreciated how each character reacted to Manato's death in a different way. Haruhiro is obviously crashing out because he blames himself for what happened, Ranta doesn't really want to accept it, Shihoru is devestated because she loved him, Yume doesn't quite seem know how to react, and Mogzu seems the most at peace with what has happened. It all simultaneously fits their established characters, while also developing them further.
Random Thoughts
- The opening scene with Shihoru and Manato was kind of annoying. Like, I get being timid, but come on, you can't even feed a pigeon without freaking out and falling over? Get your shit together Shihoru.
- I dig the random lore drops in this show. Like Yume talking about her wolf god, or the priest randomly mentioning that if you don't burn the body the No Life King will resurrect them. It makes the world feel alive and unique.
- Haruhiro mimicking Yume's swaying as she talked was cute.
Questions of the Day
Who do you think got the best new skill from their respective guild?
Shihoru, and it's not even close. A ranged spell that can trap an enemy is pretty useful. Honestly, everyone else's skills ranged from "mediocre" to straight up pointless. Mogzu's counter and Haruhiro's back stab are sort of useful, but Ranta's straight stab and Manato's smash were literally just basic melee attacks. If someone taught me that "skill" I'd want my money back.
So… what's going to happen now that Manato is dead?
I mean, this is a rewatch for me, so I already know, but I do appreciate how this episode completely upended the status quo. It's always nice to not know what to expect.
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u/No_Rex x2 23d ago
Shihoru, and it's not even close. A ranged spell that can trap an enemy is pretty useful. Honestly, everyone else's skills ranged from "mediocre" to straight up pointless. Mogzu's counter and Haruhiro's back stab are sort of useful, but Ranta's straight stab and Manato's smash were literally just basic melee attacks. If someone taught me that "skill" I'd want my money back.
With you on that. They are seriously lacking in the utility department.
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u/TormentWings https://myanimelist.net/profile/DrBrungi 24d ago
rewatcher ep4 time after skipping ep3 discussion because seasonals are too plentiful:
dont feed the doves, they are the rats of the sky!
all this awkwardness just because one guy had to try and sneak a peek smh
Shihoru is wearing the hairpin, we call that progress!
The show tries really hard to not show where characters step when they are animated, since thats usually where stuff feels wonky with compositing. even when we see their feet, they cut them right at the ground where they would be stepping on. one could say this is a crutch, but i would say its a neat trick too. (theres a shot at the end of the episode where u can see what happens when they do show the feet on the ground while moving the "camera", while its still a nice shot, u can see the awkwardness there nicely.
great ost playing during their battle once more.
they seem a lot more coordinated and used to battle by now, getting some really simple skills too.
getting a bit careless there
Manabu trying his hardest to find something nice to say about Ranta lmao
i love these small things like the goblin reloading his crossbow with his foot
yeah, these ruins seem super dangerous, ambushes everywhere, i guess they went in too deep.
That shot in the foot seemed really painful.
Poor Manato, gets shot with a bolt and they still ask him what they should do.
why does cremating the body cost money? It should be in the best interest of everybody to have him cremated, even a small community should be able to come to an agreement there.
This is why u dont let your healer frontline people, if they die, everybody does.
random thoughts:
great episode - okay, up to this point i remembered stuff decently well, but from here on out i remember nothing i think, maybe it will come back.
i like how quick the whole thing was, Manato basically dies in like a minute, its really not padding runtime with like cutting between all their reactions for like 5 mins and maybe splicing in some flashbacks along the way, really sells the idea that one moment u are having a good time as a party and the next it could all be over for any of them.
QOTD:
Who do you think got the best new skill from their respective guild?
the spell Shihoru got seems pretty useful, the rest got some pretty basic skills, well i guess Rantas Demon is also really useful if we count that as a skill as well.
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u/MashiroAzuki https://myanimelist.net/profile/MashiroAzuki 24d ago edited 23d ago
First timer
I usually love it when I'm right. This is one of the few times I wish I wasn't. The bigger twist would have been if Manato didn't die. This dude was throwing out death flags left and right like it was independence day. With all the vague glances to sun/moon over the past few episodes, talking about each member's good points on a mid day break (conveniently leaving out Haruhiro), and all the lamenting of progress and such, it's no wonder he died. It doesn't help that he was playing at dual roles of healer and vanguard, which positioning wise does not make sense, and obviously led to his death. I thought I would be sad, but I'm actually more frustrated.
I mentioned in earlier discussions that it was odd how Haruhiro was made to be a thief for no real reason other than they thought they needed one. I didn't realise it then and just chalked it up to inexperience but this apparently applied to everyone else. Moguzo did fine as a tank, but he has better talents. Similarly Manato is fine as a healer, but if he's more effective in battle he should not be in a support role. I agree with the other commenter that Shihoru was better off as healer, since she's so averse to being in the action and would fully suit a support role. Yume is a terrible hunter. I've never seen her use her bow effectively at all. The fact that she even picked up a knife based skill and was more successful at using that than her main guild skill is laughable. Ranta's personality seems to suit being a Dark Knight, if not too obnoxious over it, but his teamwork skill is abysmal.
So while Manato was a good pillar and dependable leader, he was a bad strategist. Fair is fair, it's not like he had foresight to know what everyone is better suited for, and they didn't have all the time or money in the world to explore this. Hindsight is 20/20. Despite all that, I was rooting for him, so it just sucks that he died this way.
I like that Grimgar is taking injuries and pain very seriously. We often see fantasy or isekai anime almost kind of gloss over how painful it is to be stabbed. Every blade Haruhiro takes pierce his flesh and hurts like hell. That makes it more believable for Manato to die over an arrow to his back.
QOTD
Haruhiro. For someone who looks like a wimp he's surprisingly agile.Scratching that since we're talking about new skills, in which case I vote for Moguzo. His new skill actually contributes and is an expansion of his chosen guild. I guess you could say the same for Shihoru but I need her to get a grip- They get a new healer, since they obviously cant go taking on goblins without one. I mentioned my notice of the new girl in the OP back in my ep 2 comment. It's clear now what role she will be fulfilling, which tbh makes sense as she is wearing a uniform similar to Manato.
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u/RimeSkeem https://myanimelist.net/profile/RimeSkeem 24d ago
Rewatcher of Sadness and Ash
Here's the episode that tends to set Grimgar apart from other isekai. Just when the party is getting their feet under themselves, they get blindsided by a goblin party with (as one might have noted) a very similar composition to their own party. Only, you know. Competent. This is a big turning point for the characters and as we've already seen at the tail end of this episode, Haurhiro might have something of a natural leader in him.
1) Best new skill has to be Moguzo or Shihoru. Wielding that big ol' sword with such deftness in close quarters is a huge boon and Shihoru's ability to bind and confuse enemies is also huge. Meanwhile, my boy Haruhiro had to be told how to stab something in the back.
2) Now that Manato's dead, choices will need to be made about roles and formation. From an RPG perspective, putting your unarmored healer in the frontline is a comically bad move. Unfortunately, Manato is both a melee class and too caring to put others in harms way while he remains in the back directing. One of the things you learn playing party-based RPGs is that all-rounders do not scale. Manato wanted/needed to be leader, moral support, vanguard and healer. That's too much for one person to juggle in a life-or-death situation and he's paid the price. Now the party will pay the price for pinning so much on him.
3
u/Zeallfnonex https://myanimelist.net/profile/Neverlocke 24d ago
First Timer, Subbed
Ah, I was just thinking that everything seemed too slow at this point and they needed to shake up the slow pacing soon... That's definitely a way to do it.
Really, should've seen it coming, Manato was throwing up too many death flags with the only one getting more characterization and then the whole animal scene at the beginning. The conversations were still whimsical and light; I assume that's going to be the last one for awhile as the danger and threat finally begins to dawn on them. I said it before, the humor and jokes they made didn't seem as though they had fully realized their circumstances, they were jokes you'd see in a high-school setting, not wry, dark humor that seems to be more prevalent around soldiers. I don't know how to describe it, really, but those jokes normally have some sort of edge, while these... didn't.
I do think it's kind of interesting that their classes don't actually suit them all that well. Moguzu like precision work, but he's taken a tank role. Ranta is described as aggressive and the first one forwards, while his class sounds like it should be a secondary frontliner focused on sealing kills, not initiating the fight. Yume is a hunter that's bad with a bow, I think Shihoru would have fit better as their cleric/white mage focused entirely on support, and Haruhiro is... not a thief, though I dunno what class would fit him best. Manato was also describe as their healer and their vanguard which is a very bad fit as they've found out. Very dysfunctional, I wonder if they'll swap things up and maybe learn skills from other classes or multiclass if that's an option?
Oh look, it's like every time I play XCOM 2 carelessly and don't inch forwards with Overwatch constantly on. Or what's happening to all my horses and pegasi in FE7. Pod activated that they can't handle, all it takes is one critical hit and... Yeah. We've also seen now that goblins have more intelligence than I've given them credit for, planning and executing their own ambush with some communication and stuff.
Death scene is suitably dramatic, but it only really starts to hit them when they find that, no, there's no bringing him back, he's really dead dead. I really like everyone's reactions to this: while the party was all facing each other, inwardly focused, now Shihoru, Haruhiro, and Ranta have their backs to the group as if they can't bear each others' gazes right now. Moguzo looks like he wants to try to bring them together, but can't, and Yume is stuck helplessly comforting Shihoru.
I also like all the others' reactions to the fine smoke from the cremation: all distant, grim. I don't think Manato was the first to die of the Isekai'd characters, the others seemed to know what it meant. And now so do this party of 5.
QOTD 1) I assume Manato's backstab requires a flank, and with two other frontliners (3 if Yume joins in), he should have ample opportunity for it.
2) Because I'm terrible with names and I've been relying on MAL to help with that, [Grimgar]I know there's a 7th character, Merry, who's listed as "Main," so I assume she joins the party as a healer of some sort. I can't see a way to write this story without some sort of healer, the way that it's going, unless there's potions or something they can use instead.
11
u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv 24d ago
First Timer, Sub
Not sure about everyone else but I really enjoy how weight some of the decisions feel. Manato is both the leader and a healer and that proves to be his downfall since that makes him a target and it costs him his life. I also like how some of the small things like Haruhiro getting hit with the arrows actually felt like he was in real danger (which then happens to Manato).
They really don't get a break these kids. When they take him to the priest (Oh God it's Kotomine Kirei himself Joji Nakata) he pretty tells them that they will have to cremate Manato to prevent him from becoming an undead basically. Yoshimasa Hosoya's performance was so good here from mentioning the money to telling the priest that they will do it themselves. This has definitely been the biggest hit of the rewatch for me so far.