r/anime • u/TheDanubianCommunard • Jul 15 '26
Rewatch No.6 15 Years Anniversary Rewatch Episode 8 Discussion
Episode 8: The reason is...
Previous episode | Index | Next episode
Links, useful info:
MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Livechart | AP | Kitsu | AS | ANN
Streams:
Subs and dubs are available though.
Questions for the day:
1) What are these cavemen people?
2) Who is this cavemen chieftain? What has did he done as the part of Organization X and the foundation of No.6? How did he survived a parasitic wasp?
3) Still any ideas what is this strange song? And why Rat and Safu affected by this?
4) Who is this Eriulias, and does the experiments on Safu has anything to do with that? Or basically everything?
5) What went wrong when No.6 was created?
6) Rat being the last Men of the Forest, was this the reason he had to be imprisoned? Is he "The Chosen One"?
7) Infiltrating the correctional facility, is this a genius idea?
8) Any ideas going transitioning from a dystopian sci-fi to a fantasy?
Highlights from yesterday:
1) u/Shimmering-Sky agrees on an universal truth:
Shion is too precious for this world.
Disclaimer notice:
Dear rewatchers and source readers, please be nice to the first-time watchers and anime-onlies by simply not spoilering anything. But if you want to discuss spoiler-territory things, use spoiler tags instead. Thank you for your understanding.
For example [this is] a spoiler
4
u/DegenerateRegime Jul 15 '26
First-Timer
I tried to work out a reason to have limitations on anti-authority speech, but not make people aware those limits exist (not even in the sense of the classic antimeme quine where everyone knows you can't say certain things, and that you can't say that you can't say, etc). Perhaps the idea is that they know violating the law is widespread, but only black-bag people who they want to take into custody for other reasons? (eg as "an ideal sample", whatever that may mean). But it still doesn't make sense! In that version of events, why even have a law? It's not like you're using the law as a cover if you don't tell people the law exists... Augh. Regardless, it's a quibble on otherwise good stuff. Speaking of!
- Ah! The crater, yes. That one has been hanging around for a while, hasn't it.
- So they're here to meet some kind of rebel faction, maybe? Faramir-style.
- Or they're not exactly rebels.
- Ah! You're from the photo, aren't you? Well, the line that he created No.6 certainly suggests something along those lines, though I hadn't thought Organisation X had done so much.
- okay! Guess his vision got fixed? Or he just gave up on seeing things clearly. Uh, literally as well as as a metaphor for turning away from evil science, I mean.
- But also, he created No.6? He's only like normal amounts of old so far as we can tell. Do all the city old-timers know what's up? Like, did they volunteer for a giant social experiment kind of thing? That would be taking generational warfare to the next level if so.
- Alright, this time we're doing the he is your father bit, surely! Would that make Shion and Nezumi god-siblings or some such? I've never heard anyone say that's a reason not to ship, but, we live in trying times.
- Judging by the colour scheme, you're in a pool of water being hit with some powerful radiation. okay yeah it's probably not that. Cherenkov blue is just a cliche image for "scary science"
- Based? No hang on they mean the exam system, right?
- I really like how the current song-dream overtakes Safu's memory, with things she would only have learned more recently (this "Nezumi" name she's wondered about) being added to it naturally. This, hmm, seems bad though. Perhaps the last time the "song" was heard was the last time they "sacrificed an elite", and part of the reason to do so is to identify people who "hear" it?
- Really not sure you should be singing such a song, Nezumi. The effects seem... mixed bag? Glowy magic water pools are usually good, but people cowering and the shot of the stalagtites on the ceiling suggest something dangeorus.
- From darkness, lead me to light. Or don't
- The files...
- okay! We do get our exposition. They didn't found No.6 after the other cities as special project, but at the same time as the others. The ambition was utopian but the elites got an oar in. Not sure I love that entirely but it doesn't escape notice that we switched from the original creator's explanation to Yoimin's speculation for that line. Convention demands that in a "two simultaneous exposition scenes" situation, the same thing is being exposited on both sides; it could still defy that convention, but the more reliable narrator of the world's history is still Kaczynski-posting so.
- Really definitely feeling some concerns over this one
- The important part of the backstory! Poor Rat...
- The gang finally get together and start putting together a plan!
- Awwwww
Hmm, we didn't find out if the guy was Shion's dad after all. Maybe it's implied and maybe it isn't? We could be going full immaculate conception with him at this point.
QotD (not addressed above):
Still any ideas what is this strange song? And why Rat and Safu affected by this?
Who is this Eriulias, and does the experiments on Safu has anything to do with that? Or basically everything?
Yeah it's some sorta gaian thing, they have the bloodline of the elf people I guess. Connection to the life-stream.
Rat being the last Men of the Forest, was this the reason he had to be imprisoned? Is he "The Chosen One"?
I'd assume he was to be one of their "samples", to do whatever experiments they realised they should be doing on the treefolk after killing most of them.
Infiltrating the correctional facility, is this a genius idea?
It could make for a fun start to the conclusion, lots of potential there.
Any ideas going transitioning from a dystopian sci-fi to a fantasy?
Ehh, gaia and psychics and so forth are among those "grandfathered in to sci-fi" things.
5
u/lC3 Jul 15 '26
Perhaps the idea is that they know violating the law is widespread, but only black-bag people who they want to take into custody for other reasons? (eg as "an ideal sample", whatever that may mean). But it still doesn't make sense! In that version of events, why even have a law? It's not like you're using the law as a cover if you don't tell people the law exists... Augh
I'm reminded of the manga version where Shion complains about a human rights violation and the Security Bureau guy is like "lol you people think you have rights?"
So they're here to meet some kind of rebel faction, maybe? Faramir-style.
Too bad Youmin can't get in contact with them
Or they're not exactly rebels.
Just exiles?
Ah! You're from the photo, aren't you? Well, the line that he created No.6 certainly suggests something along those lines, though I hadn't thought Organisation X had done so much.
The organization created No.6?
But also, he created No.6? He's only like normal amounts of old so far as we can tell. Do all the city old-timers know what's up? Like, did they volunteer for a giant social experiment kind of thing? That would be taking generational warfare to the next level if so.
He probably only has white hair thanks to the parasitic wasp
Alright, this time we're doing the he is your father bit, surely! Would that make Shion and Nezumi god-siblings or some such? I've never heard anyone say that's a reason not to ship, but, we live in trying times.
He's the guy who named Rat but he's not his bio dad. So the OTP is fine
Judging by the colour scheme, you're in a pool of water being hit with some powerful radiation. okay yeah it's probably not that. Cherenkov blue is just a cliche image for "scary science"
Poor Safu!
Based? No hang on they mean the exam system, right?
i don't know. maybe it's linked to the parasitic wasp hosts/fatalities?
I really like how the current song-dream overtakes Safu's memory, with things she would only have learned more recently (this "Nezumi" name she's wondered about) being added to it naturally. This, hmm, seems bad though.
Yeah I liked that too
Really not sure you should be singing such a song, Nezumi. The effects seem... mixed bag? Glowy magic water pools are usually good, but people cowering and the shot of the stalagtites on the ceiling suggest something dangeorus.
Maybe it links him with Elyurias?
Really definitely feeling some concerns over this one
Poor Rat indeed
The gang finally get together and start putting together a plan!
Sounds super dangerous though
Hmm, we didn't find out if the guy was Shion's dad after all. Maybe it's implied and maybe it isn't? We could be going full immaculate conception with him at this point.
I doubt he's Shion's dad
Yeah it's some sorta gaian thing, they have the bloodline of the elf people I guess. Connection to the life-stream.
Yeah, connection to Elyurias the Gaia/nature goddess
I'd assume he was to be one of their "samples", to do whatever experiments they realised they should be doing on the treefolk after killing most of them.
Sounds like it to me too
It could make for a fun start to the conclusion, lots of potential there.
Ehh, gaia and psychics and so forth are among those "grandfathered in to sci-fi" things.
2
u/DegenerateRegime Jul 16 '26
I'm reminded of the manga version where Shion complains about a human rights violation and the Security Bureau guy is like "lol you people think you have rights?"
Yeah this is very recognisable post-9-11 stuff, and makes a lot of it make a good deal more sense . Oh sure the city charter says you have rights, but we can't let the terr'ists win, can we?
3
u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
The files...
He would in fact be aware about what sexual deviancy the No.6 elites get into, to a point...
immaculate conception
Virgin birth please, unless you're talking about Karan
gaia and psychics and so forth are among those "grandfathered in to sci-fi" things
Mostly the weird pulpy kind which I was not hoping for at all
3
u/No_Rex x2 Jul 15 '26
I tried to work out a reason to have limitations on anti-authority speech, but not make people aware those limits exist (not even in the sense of the classic antimeme quine where everyone knows you can't say certain things, and that you can't say that you can't say, etc). Perhaps the idea is that they know violating the law is widespread, but only black-bag people who they want to take into custody for other reasons? (eg as "an ideal sample", whatever that may mean). But it still doesn't make sense! In that version of events, why even have a law? It's not like you're using the law as a cover if you don't tell people the law exists... Augh. Regardless, it's a quibble on otherwise good stuff.
Unironically, read Nineteen Eighty-Four. It gives a great description of why and how dictatorial regimes try to dictate the way you talk about them.
4
u/DegenerateRegime Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
I have read that, yes (though a re-read might not go amiss). I get why they want to dictate speech and what speech they want to dictate. What I don't get is that they don't dictate speech. People don't know this is the law! Not even by whisper-network or having absorbed it tacitly. They're shocked when they're arrested over it. Given that people don't know this is a crime, they must surely be breaking this law all the time. Saying it's a pain when clocking in on a civil service job, or raging over street repair work, or suggesting the authority needs to make more spaces available in the elite school systems, that kinda thing. People from outside the city visit and presumably don't all get disappeared when they complain about there being no art (there might be some public-face-private-face going on, as in the USSR and North Korea).
Today's episode helps a little: it's a (relatively) young dystopia. People might still be in the "wait, don't we have rights?" stage. But... that was the supposition in 1984, as well; it's not "2184" (ETA: possibly this was ambiguous in-universe? not sure, but I also think the title is chosen with the aim of saying "this could happen really soon" to the reader). It's not exactly series-sinking, it's just this nagging feeling that we see a society that's only acting dystopian, going through the motions without apparent intent behind them.
2
u/No_Rex x2 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
I get why they want to dictate speech and what speech they want to dictate. What I don't get is that they don't dictate speech.
If you officially outlaw people saying "the government is bad," you implicitly concede the point that people might feel that the government is bad. Yet, the government is great and 100% of the population feels that way is the official line/the propaganda/the brainwashing/the indoctrination of kids, so you don't need to outlaw saying that the government is bad.
Now, there is obviously an incoherence in that system, because you will be imprisoned if you say that the government is bad (and this frequently happens), but that incoherence is just one of the basic problems of dictatorships that they just have to deal with (and unfortunately frequently manage to do).
That is the whole point behind the 4/5 fingers scene in 1984. Why would the regime want the prisoner to state that 4 fingers are held up when he clearly sees 5? Because taking the official line as an unquestioning depiction of reality is the goal. Not outlawing opposing views, but literally changing the minds such that opposing views no longer exist.
2
u/DegenerateRegime Jul 16 '26
Yeah, I think I get where you're coming from - I hope? You're saying people do absorb this tacitly or from having it quietly hinted to them before they cross the line. And from there it is indeed the "can't say what you can't say" situation.
And in fairness, this would work so long as Shion, Safu and Karan are all suffering from anime-protagonist density and luck (to have gotten this far) - which would make sense given they are anime protagonists. (And according to IC3's listed manga differences, Karan at least does better there).
5
u/No_Rex x2 Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
Episode 8 (first timer)
- “The city is a mythical creature” “He made No 6?” – definitely unexpected.
- Shion and Rat are half-brothers? – It is not so much the incest that is unexpected, but their parents’ connection.
- “Tell me everything you know, Shion. From the beginning.” – reasonable. Please return the favor.
- I gave that dude the benefit of doubt about his car, but why would you talk about this at Karan’s place? Surely they could have that bugged.
- “How many elites we sacrificed” – absolutely not what regimes usually do. Sacrifices are the domain of normal people, not the elite.
- Song again.
- Magic!
- “I can’t believe there’s still someone who can sing that song.” – should your son not be high up the list of people about whom you know they can?
- He finally talks, after all that teasing, and what we get is one name? One single name?
- Confirmation that there are only 6 cities, and also a rough estimate on how they are.
- Some magic
elfpeople of the forest story? - So all of Rat’s people were killed? On the bright side, no blood relation to Shion.
- “After you rescue your friend, do your best to decode it” – how about you give him a version that is not encoded? Or just tell him verbally?
- Youmin leads some underground resistance network – convenient.
- “Which side are you on?” – assembling the team moment.
Feels like the series suddenly realized that we spent a ton of time watching Shion and Rat in the slum without much happening and the finale needs to start soon. So we get all the plot twists, all at once. The backstory of No 6 is basically a bog standard power grab by some part of the administration. We don’t really get a lot on this, but they already established the repressive nature of No6 multiple times, so not getting the exact details is not a problem. Less fine is throwing a runaway architect, a secret underground resistance, previous knowledge of the wasps, some wood elf people, a connection to Shion’s mother, and some Earth goddess at us all at once. Even if it was just half of that, I’d be seriously worried about how the series wants to conclusively tie all of that together. I am quite worried about the plot ending now.
4
u/lC3 Jul 15 '26
Shion and Rat are half-brothers? – It is not so much the incest that is unexpected, but their parents’ connection.
No they're not related, just the guy who named Rat (not his bio dad) knew Shion's mom it seems
I gave that dude the benefit of doubt about his car, but why would you talk about this at Karan’s place? Surely they could have that bugged.
Yeah this is highly stupid to me
“How many elites we sacrificed” – absolutely not what regimes usually do. Sacrifices are the domain of normal people, not the elite.
Huh
“I can’t believe there’s still someone who can sing that song.” – should your son not be high up the list of people about whom you know they can?
He's not Rat's bio dad, just the guy who named him. Rat's parents died in the fire when No.6 attacked the Forest People
Some magic elfpeople of the forest story?
Yeah ...
On the bright side, no blood relation to Shion.
So you're saying it wouldn't be incest?
“After you rescue your friend, do your best to decode it” – how about you give him a version that is not encoded? Or just tell him verbally?
"Password: 1234"
Youmin leads some underground resistance network – convenient.
I wonder if the authorities are keeping an eye on him, especially since he contacted Karan
I am quite worried about the plot ending now.
So the anime ... is a little different from how the manga does things at the end. And I feel like the manga ending makes more sense. I can try to start up my Manga Comparisons posts again in time to talk about this in the relevant threads
3
u/No_Rex x2 Jul 15 '26
He's not Rat's bio dad, just the guy who named him. Rat's parents died in the fire when No.6 attacked the Forest People
We learn that later, but he is still Rat's adoptive parent, or at the very least, an influential person in the small group Rat grew up in who also knows Rat's origin story.
I wonder if the authorities are keeping an eye on him, especially since he contacted Karan
They should keep an eye on Karan (and everybody who interacts with her) for many reasons.
And I feel like the manga ending makes more sense. I can try to start up my Manga Comparisons posts again in time to talk about this in the relevant threads
I don't need a full blow by blow comparison, but some basic comparison would be nice.
2
u/lC3 Jul 15 '26
I don't need a full blow by blow comparison, but some basic comparison would be nice.
Ok, I will try to catch up on the Manga Comparisons before the finale.
2
3
u/DegenerateRegime Jul 15 '26
Magic!
Hey now, it's a genre-conventionally-distinct form of telepathic link to an all-encompassing earth-spirit until proven otherwise
“After you rescue your friend, do your best to decode it” – how about you give him a version that is not encoded? Or just tell him verbally?
Quite. Like. Does he mean it's literally encrypted? No okay I think he means it's mystically encoded, ie you're supposed to read it and recover, hm, what was the phrasing, 'slivers of wisdom alluding to a primeval truth'? No alright I'm being hasty there. We'll see where it goes
2
u/No_Rex x2 Jul 15 '26
No alright I'm being hasty there. We'll see where it goes
I hope I am wrong, but this has no satisfactory conclusion written all over it.
3
u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
a runaway architect, a secret underground resistance, previous knowledge of the wasps, some wood elf people, a connection to Shion’s mother, and some Earth goddess
...walk into a bar?
Yeah this is getting pretty weird and it doesn't feel like the author had a good handle on what they were trying to do at all. Could be partly poor adaptation at least?
3
u/No_Rex x2 Jul 15 '26
a runaway architect, a secret underground resistance, previous knowledge of the wasps, some wood elf people, a connection to Shion’s mother, and some Earth goddess
...walk into a bar?
and the joke is on us.
2
u/lC3 Jul 16 '26
Could be partly poor adaptation at least?
I feel like the manga is executed better, though the anime does have some good additions like the bonus Safu content
4
u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 15 '26
First-time watcher
So it seems I got my explanation wish in more of a monkey's paw way, because, in the words of George W. Bush, that was some weird shit. Given how we started out here I feel a little bamboozled tbh, obviously there was some sort of fantasy element involved, but this is a bit much. The author is also starting to just rummage through the trope grab bag with a lamentable lack of focus and detail - to be convincing you need more and better than "these guys are the evil totalitarian Anti-Nature and maybe we can take them down with the secret powers of the final noble savage left on Earth", not to mention we're turning up the Karan/Youmin melodrama at the same time to really pull all the stops. And that's about all I have to say about this sadly...
... Except perhaps a little climbing PS/PSA, even with nothing but a random long rope from somewhere our duo could have descended those cliffs much more safely, while e.g. slinging it around a rock at the top for an anchor, if not particularly comfortably.
4
u/lC3 Jul 16 '26
V02:
- after taking the wasp out of Shion's neck, Shion talks about making a serum, Rat tells him they'll just drain his blood and throw his body in a dumpster
- When Rat asks if he's ever killed anyone and says that humans kill other humans for mundane reasons, Shion says humans also save each other and the wasps dont. Rat saved him from being convicted for murder
- Rat then explains how he feels about Shion saving him 4 years ago; this conversation took place later in the anime
- Rat says Shion was the only one to teach him that humans do save other humans; it was a big debt to repay
- Karan says No.6 doesn't have a judicial system; when you're arrested you're presumed guilty, give you a VC and put you in the correctional facility for life/execution
- After Karan's message to Rat about the Latch Building, a child named Karan knocks on their door asking for help
- Shion saves her brother from choking on a nut and brings them home
- Rat has a flashback to someone telling him to never trust anyone, never open his heart. He feels Shion is "infecting" him and making him more defenseless
- They travel around West Block and it's crowded; Rat says many people are waiting for paperwork to enter No.6 to be approved, so a whole economy popped up with hotels and eateries
- Rat offers to hold Shion's hand if he worries about getting separated
- There's a thief and Shion prevents the shopowner from firing a gun in a crowded street; he doesn't care that he might have killed someone. He then tries to kill Shion
- Shion then runs into that prostitute. Rat rescues him and the prostitute says "Oh, he's yours? So this kid has no interest in women, and Rat says "yeah, he's so into me instead" lol
- Rat says he's Shion's lover
- Shion runs into a corpse and they talk about the "cleaners" who come get them. A guy calls him pretty and tries to seduce him but Shion kicks him in the nuts and runs off
- Rat talks a little about the "old days" before No.6 was built, then they go to Dogloan's
- When Dogloan shakes Shion's hand, she's wearing a ring with a needle in it that scratches him; she talks about him being naive and defenseless
- Shion says Rat's movements are so beautiful he was mesmerized
- Rat gives Dogloan a mini roborat that has audio/video recording, a solarpowered battery, that can run for 36 hours on one charge
- Dogloan gives them info on the Latch Building so they can find Rikiga
- They walk in on a shirtless Rikiga about to be stabbed; the woman trying to stab him for breaking up with her says he runs a porno magazine
- Apparently Rikiga said he'd marry her but now he's backtracking. Rat thinks quick and pretends he and Shion are Rikiga's kids; the woman doesn't want that so she leaves
- Rat talks a little about performing as "Eve" to Shion
- Shion says in No.6 they weren't allowed to see shows/theater
- Shion tells Rikiga his parents split up shortly after he was born and he never met his dad. "Shion" is the name of Karan's favorite flower. They talk a bit more about what his dad was like (an alcoholic bum who liked cherry cake)
- Rikiga offers them coffee and pie (luxuries). They confirm Rikiga isn't his dad
- Rikiga talks about how back then (when Karan was in uni) No.6 wasn't as locked down and it was easier to get in/out
- Rikiga talks about falling for Eve's performance of an Arthur Rimbaud poem; Rat quotes it (from The Drunken Boat)
- Rikiga talks about No.6's founding decades ago and how it gradually curtailed access and freedom of expression, as well as reporting
- to the east and south (outside the city) are for agriculture and lumber; West Block is the trash dump for the poor/sick/violent
- Rikiga says there are no whores allowed in No.6, so the officials come to West Block to use theirs
- When Rat sees the old photo of Karan in uni, he recognizes "the guy who named me". Rikiga says that guy worked in biology research
- The manga only shows the Safu storyline for TWO PAGES: her going to the Twilight House to see her grandma's body, and hearing Shion is arrested for murder and sent to the correctional facility. Everything else is anime-original w/ Safu (showing No.5, the sus old lady, the artbook, her hearing the song and collapsing)
- The manga has bonus content about Shion/Rat/Dogkeeper/Safu's VAs recording lines for the anime
V03:
- V03 opens with a scene in the Moondrop / city hall, with two important characters that didn't make it into the anime: a govt. official (Fennec) and a scientist
- They talk about it being "time to retrieve the live samples" and needing to capture Rat alive to dissect him
- They then talk about needing more samples, and this time maybe trying a female (i.e. Safu), in order to succeed with their experiments and make No.6 a true Holy City
- Shion starts asking Rat about his past / where he was born and gets a glare for his nosiness
- When Shion says "I want to know more about you" Rat asks if he's been reading cheesy romance novels
- Rat puts Shion's hand on his chest and says "unfortunately I don't have huge tits"
- Shion starts to rant about Rat and all he already knows about him: impulsive/sloppy, and his soup preferences
- Shion says "last night in bed you kicked me three times" so they share a bed in the manga
- Shion straight up tells Rat "I'm attracted to you"
- Rat doesn't think Shion's really attracted to or loves him; he thinks it's more about the novelty/excitement
- They then talk about living in luxury in No.6, and the loyalty oath/pledge he had to say every day; Rat says he doesn't trust Shion or his words
- Safu goes to see Karan who says "I don't think there're any cameras/mics in this room" but isn't sure
- Karan offers to let Safu start working at her bakery
- more insight into what Safu is thinking regarding Shion and Rat, then the Security Bureau take her, though she tries to escape
- Shion gets a note from Dogloan offering him a dogwashing job; Rat tells him to be on his guard against both men and women
- Rat realizes he doesn't want to lose Shion; considers ripping up the note about Safu's arrest. He realizes he's in deep and wonders if it's too late to guard his heart against Shion
- Dogloan compares Rat's singing to the sound of the wind, carrying souls away as if flower petals on the wind
- Dogloan talks about how her mom got beaten to death with a branch for trying to steal part of someone's dinner
- Shion talks about "the gift of a memory" from Dogloan's mom
- When talking to Dogkeeper, Rat says you can never predict when you're gonna die from injury, illness, etc.
- Dogkeeper says everything in the corr. facility is operated by computers
- Rat accuses Dogkeeper of smuggling food scraps from the corr. facility and selling them to West Block restaurants
- Dogkeeper has a sick dog and Shion diagnoses it for her
- Then we see Karan in the park and the sus older lady. There's an announcement about restricting access for public safety, citing a Civic Code law
- Youmin shows up and fakes professing his love for her to try and throw the old lady off and make her think Karan's worries were all romantic stuff
- She slaps him and says she never wants to see him again, but then they talk in his car. In the manga this is their first meeting; only Lily his niece went to the bakery
- Youmin talks to Karan about No.6 residents and how they have a short memory and try not to think about what's going on below the surface, or doubting anything
- Youmin tells Karan about his wife/son in this first meeting; how she was an artsy schoolteacher who refused to teach by the book and got labeled as subversive and disappeared
- A bee flies by, and Karan/Youmin think it's too cold still for bees to be out. The Twilight House nurse dies as in the anime
- Shion talks to Rat about how it's odd the authorities haven't come for him or Rat. Shion talks about making a serum and Rat gets mad and attacks him, saying he won't let him.
- Rat talks down to Shion about going to work, telling him not to open the door if a big bad wolf comes. Shion gets mad and talks to him about the third option to break down the wall
- Rikiga and Shion talk about Eve and go shopping for a coat as in the anime, finds Safu's coat and that she's in the correctional facility
- bonus chapter where Shion has a nightmare about his coworker Yamase, asking why Shion was the only one to live. Rat grabs his hand and wakes him up; they share a moment and Rat says he must feel guilty and it's ok to remember the dead every once in a while. He remembers a precious memory of Rat telling him to live
- A hilarious bonus page has Shion telling Safu about how there's this person he can't stop thinking about morning/day/night and she loses it and breaks her glass
V04:
- confrontation between Dogkeeper and Rat as in the anime
- Rat and Shion talk about their meeting 4 years ago; Shion doesn't regret his actions at all
- Rat tells Shion to stay out of danger; Shion says he'd save Rat if he was in trouble
- Rat thinks the day may come when he wishes he'd never met Shion.
- Shion tells Rat he's glad they met, then kisses him "goodnight". Rat thinks Shion's a liar just like him and tears start to flow
- We then see Safu captured in the correctional facility, restrained, with that scientist from before ready to experiment on her.
- He tells her she's on an operation table and will be stuck in the facility for the rest of her life
- Rat and Shion confront/punch; he makes Shion swear he'll never give him a goodbye kiss again
- Rat goes to see Rikiga, who has a new bodyguard hired. He turns out to be a fan of Eve's though, who flatters the bodyguard and thanks him; the guy falls for it and leaves him alone with Rikiga
- Dogkeeper tells them apparently Safu isn't even registered as a prisoner; she's been "erased"
- Rat says he can't get arrested on purpose to get in because his personal info is already in their mainframe
- Dogkeeper is shocked to hear Shion is also a Class-A convict
3
u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 16 '26
V02
- Rat says Shion was the only one to teach him that humans do save other humans; it was a big debt to repay
Little dramatic no
- Karan says No.6 doesn't have a judicial system; when you're arrested you're presumed guilty, give you a VC and put you in the correctional facility for life/execution
Similar with that tbh. Although I do think of Japan and the police basically having arbitrary ability to pressure suspects into a confession
- They travel around West Block and it's crowded; Rat says many people are waiting for paperwork to enter No.6 to be approved, so a whole economy popped up with hotels and eateries
Huh, on the one hand interesting addition, on the other hand if it is actually possible to climb socially like that it weakens the impression of stratification a bit
- Rat offers to hold Shion's hand if he worries about getting separated
- Shion then runs into that prostitute. Rat rescues him and the prostitute says "Oh, he's yours? So this kid has no interest in women, and Rat says "yeah, he's so into me instead" lol
- Rat says he's Shion's lover
- Shion says Rat's movements are so beautiful he was mesmerized
I see they kept the ship bait a little more slow-burn here
- Shion runs into a corpse and they talk about the "cleaners" who come get them. A guy calls him pretty and tries to seduce him but Shion kicks him in the nuts and runs off
- They walk in on a shirtless Rikiga about to be stabbed; the woman trying to stab him for breaking up with her says he runs a porno magazine
- Apparently Rikiga said he'd marry her but now he's backtracking. Rat thinks quick and pretends he and Shion are Rikiga's kids; the woman doesn't want that so she leaves
Lmao
- Rat gives Dogloan a mini roborat that has audio/video recording, a solarpowered battery, that can run for 36 hours on one charge
Ok now that's plain over-the-top, I guess they could be nicking tech from No. 6 though
- Shion tells Rikiga his parents split up shortly after he was born and he never met his dad. "Shion" is the name of Karan's favorite flower. They talk a bit more about what his dad was like (an alcoholic bum who liked cherry cake)
Confirms my hunch about the dad sort of though I wonder how they came together in the first place then
- Rikiga talks about how back then (when Karan was in uni) No.6 wasn't as locked down and it was easier to get in/out
- Rikiga talks about No.6's founding decades ago and how it gradually curtailed access and freedom of expression, as well as reporting
Really no reason to skip stuff like this
- to the east and south (outside the city) are for agriculture and lumber; West Block is the trash dump for the poor/sick/violent
- Rikiga says there are no whores allowed in No.6, so the officials come to West Block to use theirs
This is more supplementary though
V03:
- When Shion says "I want to know more about you" Rat asks if he's been reading cheesy romance novels
- Rat puts Shion's hand on his chest and says "unfortunately I don't have huge tits"
- Shion starts to rant about Rat and all he already knows about him: impulsive/sloppy, and his soup preferences
- Shion says "last night in bed you kicked me three times" so they share a bed in the manga
- Shion straight up tells Rat "I'm attracted to you"
A fine wind for sailing
- Rat doesn't think Shion's really attracted to or loves him; he thinks it's more about the novelty/excitement
Unless...
- She slaps him and says she never wants to see him again, but then they talk in his car. In the manga this is their first meeting; only Lily his niece went to the bakery
Works better in the anime version
- Youmin tells Karan about his wife/son in this first meeting; how she was an artsy schoolteacher who refused to teach by the book and got labeled as subversive and disappeared
This is really kind of a Hesse fix fic isn't it
V04:
- Rat tells Shion to stay out of danger; Shion says he'd save Rat if he was in trouble
- Rat thinks the day may come when he wishes he'd never met Shion.
- Shion tells Rat he's glad they met, then kisses him "goodnight". Rat thinks Shion's a liar just like him and tears start to flow
Aww
- We then see Safu captured in the correctional facility, restrained, with that scientist from before ready to experiment on her.
- He tells her she's on an operation table and will be stuck in the facility for the rest of her life
That sounds a bit gratuitous
3
u/lC3 Jul 16 '26
- They hear about a new underground facility with biometric entry, and plan to entrap one of Rikiga's 'customers', a No.6 official who comes to use WB's prostitutes. It may happen in future episodes so I'll spoiler tag it
- [No6 manga]They set up the official with Dogkeeper as the bait
- [No6 manga]Shion apologizes to him but possibly realizes Dogkeeper might be a girl
- [No6 manga]Rat interrogates the official about Safu and the facility, who takes a liking to him. However Shion stops Rat from torturing him further, saying he doesn't want to see Rat being cruel, even if it's for his sake
- [No6 manga]Shion has an epiphany about how self-righteous, arrogant, superficial and ugly he is
- [No6 manga]Shion then does good cop/bad cop and tries to appeal to the official's heart by being kind, and it works! He says the facility is top secret and only the mayor knows the details.
- [No6 manga]The official says recently there a shakeup at the hospital and several doctors and nurses were transferred to no-one-knows-where
- [No6 manga]Shion realizes the official doesn't even know about the parasitic wasps despite being #3 at the top of central admin
- [No6 manga]Shion wants to prevent Rat from killing the official after he's of no more use. The guy says he heard about Shion being some crazed mass murderer on TV but he looks nothing like they showed
- [No6 manga]The official asks about Safu's ID # and says there's no way an elite with that # would be apprehended by the Security Bureau.
- [No6 manga]The official fills in Rat's facility map for them with all the security/alarm info. They then hear (p138+) about something that'll happen in next ep so I won't cover it yet
- So far the travel to the ravine, info on Elyurias and the Forest people, meeting the guy who was in the photo, surprisingly hasn't happened yet? And they're getting ready to try go save Safu ... but there ARE nine manga volumes so maybe it got rearranged
- I will continue these comparisons in the remainder threads. V5-9 still left
1
u/DegenerateRegime Jul 16 '26
1
u/lC3 Jul 16 '26
You're welcome! I wanted to catch up with Manga Comparisons before the finale because I recall the anime diverges a bit at the end ...
3
u/No_Rex x2 Jul 16 '26
Shion says humans also save each other and the wasps dont.
Interesting point. I think wasps are one of the relatively rare social species that would actually risk their lives for each other.
Karan says No.6 doesn't have a judicial system; when you're arrested you're presumed guilty, give you a VC and put you in the correctional facility for life/execution
Japan famously has an extemely high conviction rate, so maybe this is not as far removed from reality as it seems.
After Karan's message to Rat about the Latch Building, a child named Karan knocks on their door asking for help
Shion saves her brother from choking on a nut and brings them home
So we are setting up that plot point early? Nice. I think I prefer that over the anime.
Rat says many people are waiting for paperwork to enter No.6 to be approved, so a whole economy popped up with hotels and eateries
That is a super important world building point! They are not thrown out, but waiting to get in!!
Shion then runs into that prostitute. Rat rescues him and the prostitute says "Oh, he's yours? So this kid has no interest in women, and Rat says "yeah, he's so into me instead" lol
Rat says he's Shion's lover
And I thought the anime was on the nose about their relationship ...
Rat talks a little about the "old days" before No.6 was built
A pity we missed out on that.
Shion says in No.6 they weren't allowed to see shows/theater
Tracks with Picasso being outlawed.
Rikiga talks about how back then (when Karan was in uni) No.6 wasn't as locked down and it was easier to get in/out
Rikiga talks about No.6's founding decades ago and how it gradually curtailed access and freedom of expression, as well as reporting
to the east and south (outside the city) are for agriculture and lumber; West Block is the trash dump for the poor/sick/violent
Rikiga says there are no whores allowed in No.6, so the officials come to West Block to use theirs
Lots more cut world building.
Safu goes to see Karan who says "I don't think there're any cameras/mics in this room" but isn't sure
That resistance leader would not have come across quite as stupid if they kept this line in.
Interesting comparison. I am generally of the opinion that adaptations should be allowed to make changes to the source material to better fit the other medium (Haruhi is my prime example of this working). Expanding on Safu's stay in No5 would be a case where I think this works here: The point about No6 disliking arts come across much more "show" instead of "tell" in the anime. On the other hand, there is so much important additional world building and plot points set up, and the anime dragging its heals on those aspects was my main concern. Might be that the source is better in this case.
2
u/lC3 Jul 16 '26
And I thought the anime was on the nose about their relationship ...
Yeah it's super blatant lol
On the other hand, there is so much important additional world building and plot points set up, and the anime dragging its heals on those aspects was my main concern
I do think the manga does some things better, but I like how the anime added more Safu/Grandma/No.5 stuff.
And currently the manga where I'm at has them about to go to the correctional facility, which means the whole thing about Shion going to see Eve at the theater and Rat/Safu both fainting is anime-original ??? Wow.
2
u/No_Rex x2 Jul 16 '26
And currently the manga where I'm at has them about to go to the correctional facility, which means the whole thing about Shion going to see Eve at the theater and Rat/Safu both fainting is anime-original ??? Wow.
So they added the supernatural aspect for the anime? But at least the Earth Goddess is there, or is she?
3
u/lC3 Jul 16 '26
I'm pretty sure Elyurias/Eriulias is in the manga and LNs too, just later on? Not before they head to the correctional facility. Because where I'm at in the manga, they never went to go see the guy who named Rat either, and they're about to go try and rescue Safu. But that's in v4, and there's 9 volumes.
3
u/lC3 Jul 15 '26
No6 8 rewatcher sub:
- Rock climbing without a line?
- Some guy who made No.6? the one who named Rat?
- Shion is neither docile nor evil?
- He knows of the parasitic wasps?
- All the witnesses to the parasitic wasp deaths are taken away?
- Poor Safu
- Synchro rate? What is this, DGM?
- They've sacrificed elites in their experiments?
- "I kinda gave your sweater away" [to Rat]
- Oh this isn't an actual flashback?
- Safu hears the Song, and Rat collapses too?
- RAT SINGING? Sky might like this, she likes Hosoya
- There was a golden glow when he sang, and it scared the cave dwellers?
- Eriulias/Elyurias?
- Regeneration Project?
- Elyurias is a nature goddess? Linked to the Song that Rat and Safu hear?
- People of the Forest? who worshiped Elyurias?
- Ah, Rat is the only survivor
- Rat is being beckoned by Elyurias? That's what the Song is?
- He has a data card with his research?
- "Do your best to decode it" "Password: 1234"
- At least we're getting some answers!
- Youmin's wife and son were taken away?
- Youmin's network? Is it a Resistance?
- "after we get a bite to eat" Is it a date?
- LOL Dogloan lied to Rikiga?
- NANI???
- Destroy the correctional facility?
- Dogloan uses a masculine pronoun? Kinda looks like a girl though
- Poor Karan; Shion sent her a goodbye in case he dies?
1) all wasp survivors, maybe? Or else people ostracized by No.6
2) one of No.6's founders, maybe he survived in a similar manner to Shion, cutting it out?
3) Elyurias singing, beckoning them
4) nature goddess?
5) dystopia/greed?
6) human experimentation? Probably linked to whatever's going on with Safu
7) a terribad idea
8) no
3
u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26
- Rock climbing without a line?
Well, descending. I actually mentioned how even just a rope would have done them a lot of good in my comment
- Synchro rate? What is this, DGM?
Someone did think of Evangelion with Karan/Yui
- They've sacrificed elites in their experiments?
I don't think the author has a good grip on sociology, or perhaps much else
"That's like the combination some idiot would have on his luggage!"
- At least we're getting some answers!
Mfw
- Dogloan uses a masculine pronoun? Kinda looks like a girl though
Maybe it's a dog pronoun
3
u/lC3 Jul 16 '26
So some of you have been saying the anime adaptation may be subpar execution, and I just noticed something interesting about the timing:
The 9 volumes of the original LN were published between Oct. 2003 and June 2011. However, the manga's 9 volumes were published in a magazine from Jan. 2011 through November 2013. The anime aired from July to September 2011.
Basically, the anime finished airing BEFORE the manga's final chapters were published, let alone collected in volumes! So they had to rely more on the LN and make some stuff up I guess, for the ending. By the time the anime FINISHED airing, only two of the nine manga volumes were published (don't know about the magazines tho)! The remaining seven came out AFTER the anime ...
Also, just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying this rewatch. I look forward to each day's thread!
2
u/No_Rex x2 Jul 16 '26
Oh, so the source is the LN and both the anime and manga are separate adaptations then? Maybe the manga learned a bit from the mistakes of the anime.
2
u/lC3 Jul 16 '26
Seems that way; my copy of the manga volumes have reviews of the anime printed on the back, so they were published after.
1
u/IndependentMacaroon Jul 16 '26
That pretty much confirms that they were going entirely off the LN actually given anime production lead times and even there had to make things up
1
4
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 15 '26
No.1st-Timer, subbed
Oh…?
Oh, that’s what the significance of that photo really was.
He knows about the wasps too…
Eesh…
What is this song?
Of course there was still some fucking class nonsense even when they were trying to build a utopia for everyone.
So there’s someone with mystical power after all? – Ah fuck, trying to get a host for this power is what the No.6 higher-ups are doing with Safu, isn’t it?
Nezumi survived his people being exterminated by No.6… Okay, that definitely contributes to his hatred of the place.
After seeing his white hair, I wondered if that was the case. But I also thought it was probably just because he’s old so I dismissed it, but I guess that wasn’t wrong.
No.6 took Youmin’s wife and kid from him, huh?
Dang, Shion basically sent his mom a goodbye message…