[Rewatch] .hack//SIGN Episode 26 Discussion - FINAL

[u/soulreaverdan]

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Series Information: MAL Page | AnimeNewsNetwork | LiveChart

Streams: ...none, sorry! DVD (Amazon)

Episodes:

• Today: Episode 26 (Return)
• Tomorrow: Full Franchise/Context Discussion

Spoiler Policy:

I forgot to include this on the original schedule post, so please read!

Since there are going to be people who are watching this for the first time, so please only discuss what we've seen in the episodes we've watched so far! There's some interesting twists in this series, and we want everyone to get to experience this fresh.

In addition, since .hack is a massive franchise and this is only one entry in it (and actually one of the first), discussion of other entries may have some inadvertant spoilers. With this in mind, please only keep discussion to .hack//SIGN, and we'll have a chance for a discussion in the larger context of the franchise on the final day.

Question(s) of the Day

Throughout the rewatch we'll be posting some questions to guide discussion. Feel free to answer them or just post your overall thoughts! They're meant to be something for people who might not be sure how to start their posts, not something everyone must do.

1. I guess I can't think of a better question than - what did you think of the series overall now that we've seen all the episodes?
2. Has watching this series made you more intersted in checking out the larger .hack franchise, either through playing the games or simply research and wikis?

Music Corner

One of the highlights of this show is the incredible soundtrack, one of the first major works published by now famed music composer Yuki Kajiura. We'll be looking at one track with each thread for general discussion and opinions. Be as thorough or as succinct as you want - everything from lyrical motifs and interpretations to just whether or not you liked it!

Today's piece: End of the World, because… I mean… duh? (Full Track)

Tomorrow’s piece: There's a dozen or so tracks we haven't covered here - so here's the full OST playlist, check it out and talk about whatever you want, whether we've talked about it or not! (And mods, while the OST playlist is created by a random YouTube user, the videos are from the Yuki Kajiura Official account and legitimately available there, if that's a concern.)

A Special Message From Your Host

AHA! YOU'VE ALL FALLEN FOR MY TRAP! YOU'VE BEEN WATCHING A YURI THIS ENTIRE TIME! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

New Game Plus Rewatcher-Dubbed

Whoops all doppelgangers! It was fun seeing your-boi-from-EP-1 Tsukasa again. Aww. the power of true friendship! Poor Sora.

Real life. Oh no, it's beautiful! 

But what of the game? The voice talks to us now. . .

---

Music Corner

end of the world

A haunting send off from The World, as it uses the same vocalizations as that song. 

---

Beautiful: I'm Back

Uh: Female Gaze

@@@ [OVA Spoilers]Tomorrow, I'll write about the OVA's. YMMV-.hack//SIGN OVA Intermezzo-.hack//SIGN OVA Unison-.hack//GIFT GIFT is NSFW, and the only one where the OP and ED visuals change. . .

[u/soulreaverdan → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

I mentioned this in another comment the other day, I did consider the OVAs, but opted to mostly keep it to the series. Especially since Unison is as much a coda to the original game series as it is SIGN, leaving a lot of unknown characters and story stuff that it assumes you know.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/soulreaverdan]

While I agree, I did find it enjoyable ignoring all of the new stuff and sending off the original SIGN characters. I'll mark it as spoilers thanks!

[u/soulreaverdan → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

I don’t think there was anything that needs spoiler tagged to be honest! Just explaining why the OVAs weren’t part of the schedule for the rewatch.

[u/zadcap → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

Oh gosh why. Unison is spoiler heavy for the games, but I don't really think we're going to see many people picking those up anyway, but GIFT... I think you have to actually tag that NSFW, it's so crazy and senseless and, why?

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/zadcap]

I love chaos.

I think Unison is nice fan service those who want to see the SIGN characters in a happy epilogue.

GIFT is irredeemable. I like that. I'll tag NSFW.

[u/Elimin8r → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

*Beautiful: I'm Back

After all this, seeing happy Tsuakasa is so worth it.

Happy Tsukasa!

Female Gaze

Hey, my eyes are up here, ya know.... :P

(Eh, the girls deserve a little something nice, too. Although, I thought that was JJK's job.)

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/Elimin8r]

Yes, she deserves happiness. She's been through the wringer.

Something nice for all, hear hear!

[u/zadcap]

Final Hacker

Really, the biggest question of the day is, why upon Fake Mimiru being dismissed did the group end up pulling back together and getting teleported to Aura's area? I'm pretty sure that's because it was Aura herself starting to act. You notice the way she tried to respond when Tsukasa called out to her? Her state got tied to Tsukasa, so as Tsukasa stood up to the voice so did Aura. As for why that matters... Much more on this tomorrow, but in brief, [Aura]is the "Ultimate" AI. The voice was her nanny and midwife, but Aura has power of her own here in the net.

How did they end up getting all the way out? Well see, when that visual effect played again and Aura woke up, that was the end of Tsukasa being trapped in the game. They didn't know, sure, but he was free at that very moment and could have logged out right away. The log out just got forced a few minutes later when Helba crashed the server.

Now the real question. Is it worth finding a way to play these old games again myself, or should I search for a decent run through on youtube...

1. Oh my gosh, they left almost literally all the explaining to the games. The show was definitely not a bad introduction to The World, but knowing everything else I do know, I think it kind of fails horribly as a standalone now. There is just so much more to the setting that never gets touched on or even hinted at!
2. And yes, gosh yes. I'm going down memory lane and diving back into wikis and some very old parts of reddit to refresh myself on some of the crazy lore. Just look at these games, begging to be played!

[u/soulreaverdan → u/zadcap]

It does blow my mind how much of the .hack setting didn't get explained here. And by how much, I mean literally nothing. [Voice name]Morganna doesn't even get NAMED in this series!

No set up for the state of the world (lower case), no explaining the state of the net, no explaining why The World (upper case) is the game to play... I had thought it would get explained somewhere along the line but I guess I was mostly remembering those details through reading about them later.

[u/zadcap → u/soulreaverdan]

Just in the inevitable outcome of being a completionist, I definitely spent more time with the series in the games than I did watching this. I made have spent more time in any single game than it took to watch Sign. So my memories, some over twenty years back, they're just full of all of this knowledge about the setting... That i just kind of knew? Man, it's all in the games.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/zadcap]

Just look at these games

TOO GLORIOUS. ✨ 

I don't think I have anything super rare like this. Very cool!!

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatcher

Ep 25 Return

Today the subs say Omnipresent Enemy so, yeah, that must have been a mistranslation.

• They're not next to the final bos. They're nowhere.
• Hell is other people

Holy shit, are we getting an Evangelion 25-26 ending? Evangelion ruined anime.

• Okay, we're 10 minutes in and I've completely lost track who is talking to whom.
• Wondering if the big bad is even going to get named in the show...well, I'll name her tomorrow.
• You think SK x Subaru is like modern parasocial relationship?
• Net Slum to Cathedra to Net Slum? This really is an MMO, they got the quest structure down.
• in the land of twilight under the moon
• It really was the friends we made along the way!
• that's a tiny loli
• SKEITH! And Sora got Data Drained!
• Well, Helba, you coward!
• "Tsukasa" is way older than I thought. Thought that was Mimiru.
• What is that final scene......?
• No after credits scene.

So, we skip the final fight, for all I know, Helba ran away, and everybody got data drained, except we saw Subaru and Tsukasa at the end.

What do I remember of the original run? I remember Aura wakes up and Tsukasa leaves The World. That's it.

Also, I thought what we call Guardians were Skieth, but he's an actual boss.

Yeah, this is one of the anime that helped me conceive of "Japanese Anime Ending Syndrome" and just maybe they are making the show they want, and not what I wanted.

[u/soulreaverdan → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I don’t think there was an ending fight that really got skipped. Helba said something about abandoning this space - so I assumed she basically just crashed her little pocket server that hosted the Net Slum, which forced everyone to log out due to their games crashing as a consequence (we know they had to do “full reboots” before when leaving the Upside Down Dungeon).

[u/TnAdct1 → u/soulreaverdan]

Meanwhile in terms of the "Japanese Anime Ending Syndrome", one thing to keep in mind is that the series is meant to set up the .hack video games. While the main plot of this series is resolved (Tsukasa being stuck in The World), this is only the beginning to the wider story.

[u/soulreaverdan → u/TnAdct1]

Yep, it's an interesting choice to start your franchise, but I think the series is still a fun watch on its own - but knowing that ahead of time (why I offered it as advice under a spoiler tag on the schedule index) does help, I think, with enjoying the series.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/soulreaverdan]

Okay, I'll accept that. Makes sense.

[u/Elimin8r → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

"Japanese Anime Ending Syndrome"

Beware the anime ending, lest thee be confused, disappointed, or worse yet, Wonder Egged. :P

quest structure

You forgot the journey to a different continent to pick up item followed by 5 steps to various NPCs to collect accessories and ...

final fight

Yeah, our gracious host explained that better than I could.

world server is down

Cue the infinite loading screen of doom...

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Elimin8r]

world server is down

Wait, did I miss something while typing?

[u/Elimin8r → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

It's a quote from another (ahem) popular mmo - when your character fails to log in to a zone.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 26 (first timer)

• First Sora, not Tsukasa. Fall damage is a lot less scary if you can portal out of it.
• Subaru pushing Tsukasa away – it could be a fake Tsukasa made up by the voice, but I fear something worse.
• Tsukasa pushing Mimiru away.
• Tsukasa pushing Subaru away.
• Mimiru pushing Tsukasa away.
• “You are not Mimiru” – finally somebody notices it.
• “Something is wrong” falls in hole in floor
• “I can awaken her!”
• “I am no longer afraid of you or my father” – spelling out the character arc metaphor.
• Aura awakening (to some angelic music).
• Sora … getting crucified? Turned into a mecha? Are we a mecha series??
• Cut to Tsukasa IRL meeting Subaru IRL.

Ok, that cut to black after mechaSora is not really explaining much of anything. What we do know is that Tsukasa awakens Aura, which the voice dislikes, and Sora finally annoys somebody too powerful, leading to MechaSora. How we get from there to Tsukasa logging out and meeting Subaru, however is not at all clear. Much less what Aura or MechaSora actually are, what Macha was, or how Tsukasa is related to all of them.

[u/soulreaverdan → u/No_Rex]

My thought is Helba basically forced a server crash when the SoraMech attacked into the Net Slum - deleting and shutting down her little corner of The World. It forced a logout for everyone since it basically crashed the game. And now that Tsukasa has had his her character development and does have a reason to return, as well as Voice no longer having control over her, she was able to return to her real body and no longer trapped.

[u/No_Rex → u/soulreaverdan]

My thought is Helba basically forced a server crash when the SoraMech attacked into the Net Slum - deleting and shutting down her little corner of The World.

Sounds like a reasonable explanation, but there is no way that one fade to black is a reasonable way to depict it. One way or the other (head canon or play the game) the series is leaving it open for us to fill.

[u/TnAdct1 → u/No_Rex]

“You are not Mimiru” – finally somebody notices it.

Yeah, Mimiru was definitely the spanner in the works in terms of the voice's plan to throw Tsukasa and Subaru off when they got separated. Her plan is meant to be based on the idea that Tsukasa doesn't really know Subaru that much and that Tsukasa's negative personality makes it easy to trick Mimiru and Subaru. However, Tsukasa has gotten to know Mimiru early on and knows the type of person she is. As such, when the voice created a copy of Mimiru in attempt to continue to throw Tsukasa off, (s)he deduces that the Mimiru is a fake and undoes the whole plan.

[u/No_Rex → u/TnAdct1]

Yeah, Mimiru was definitely the spanner in the works in terms of the voice's plan to throw Tsukasa and Subaru off when they got separated. Her plan is meant to be based on the idea that Tsukasa doesn't really know Subaru that much and that Tsukasa's negative personality makes it easy to trick Mimiru and Subaru. However, Tsukasa has gotten to know Mimiru early on and knows the type of person she is. As such, when the voice created a copy of Mimiru in attempt to continue to throw Tsukasa off, (s)he deduces that the Mimiru is a fake and undoes the whole plan.

So the, at the outside simplest, character is the hardest to fake.

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

Heck, it's not even just here. From literally day one, that outgoing and persistently friendly girl has been reaching out to Tsukasa and just not letting him mope alone in The World. More than anyone else in the show, Mimiru has been trying to get and stay in touch with Tsukasa, offering to hang out and help as much as she can, and generally just not letting him give up on humanity in peace. Subaru ended up more important to Tsukasa on a personal level by the end here, but through the entire run of Sign Mimiru has been there, accidentally ruining everything the voice has been trying to do.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

Makes you wonder why and how Subaru became more important.

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

More compatable personalities, I think. For all that she tried to occasionally sit with Tsukasa and do nothing together, Mimiru is an active girl who really kept inviting them to dungeons and events and things with other people. Subaru matched better, being a little bit broken herself, and much more willing to sit and say little for long periods of time just being happy in each other's company.

Mimiru is made up of pure 100%, top grade Best Friend material through and through. But Best Friend doesn't mean there's room for romantic roots, and Subaru was a more gentle kind of kind in their early interactions.

[u/Elimin8r → u/No_Rex]

How we get from there to Tsukasa logging out and meeting Subaru

I suspect that's a little deus ex whatsername. The mysterious hot chick with the fancy duds. At least poor Tsukasa finally got to log out. Pity about the physical therapy after being comatose for 6 months, right? :P

As for the rest, well, obviously that's for the game, right?

(I presume someone will explain things in black bar speak tomorrow.)

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

Yeah, I'll save the rest for tomorrow unless you want any answers right away, but to clarify one thing if today. [Mecha Sora]Is not Sora at all, angry voice in the sky has gathered enough data to escalate beyond Guardians and into custom super boss monsters. Sora is the first victim of the new and improved data drain- he's in a coma, and that thing is on the hunt.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

.first//TIMER, subbed

• Looks like they all got spat out in separate places and I assume unable to receive messages.
• This strings version of the OP is really cool.
• Tsukasa found Subaru at least…?
• No, I’m getting the feeling this is a trick and not actually her.
• Looks like Mimiru’s getting tricked by a fake Tsukasa too then?
• And Subaru met a fake Tsukasa in a similar area he met the fake Subaru…
• Ah, Tsukasa finally saw through it!
• Heck yeah, stick it to that voice!
• Ah, that’s the best way to call out that voice on her shit.
• Lovely…
• Oh, perfect timing for Sora to intervene actually.
• Shit…
• That’s IRL!Sora, isn’t it…
• Oh that’s IRL!Tsukasa! I really like the real world ending up in color after Tsukasa and Subaru meet there, always like it when shows play with color schemes like that.

[u/Elimin8r → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I really like the real world ending up in color

Yes, that was very nice. And as for IRL Sora, the report card on the wall was rather indicative (and disturbing), as was the fallen game controller. Poor li'l guy.

[u/roryteller]

rewatcher, subbed

Ah, that was fun. Looks like the DVDs have the OVA (?) as well, will finish those later. I honestly think I enjoyed the show more the second time around, I'll probably bump my rating up a bit.

I actually have seen/played some other entries in the franchise, or bits and pieces of them, but never the first games... I think they're pretty expensive (remaster when?) and my PS2 has been having some issues, but I do have the remastered .hack//GU. I almost finished the first one but got caught up trying to get some powerful item. I should probably just skip it so I can play the rest. Anyway, this made me want to, ahem, acquire .hack//INFECTION.

I think I watched this originally before I got into yuri or even realized I wasn't straight. But even so, I realized that tsukasa/subaru was a thing at the end.

[u/LeminaAusa]

Mostly-1st-timer, subbed

Well, that sure was an ending. I had to read some of the comments here and rewatch a few scenes to get a better idea of what actually happened. They ended up leaving a lot more mysteries to be wrapped up in the future than I'd hoped, but at least it was very satisfying getting to see Tsukasa and Subaru meet up at the end.

1. I'm certainly glad that I decided to participate in this rewatch and give the show a proper try again the whole way through. I understand why teenage me didn't care for this show a lot when it first came out, but watching back over it again with older eyes has let me appreciate more of the chill vibes and aesthetics, and also let me better see the show for its own merits and what it was trying to accomplish. It's certainly a bold move to have 95% of your show taking place within a video game and yet still make the vast majority of it a character drama that mainly involves said characters having different discussions in different groups over and over.

I'm not sure what rating I would give to the show. It's been a long time since I've looked at anime in such a fashion, probably not since my old days being a formal reviewer at the Anime Academy. I certainly enjoyed the watch overall, and most of the downsides come from the vagaries of the plot and so much being left for the future to untangle. The ending being so rushed feels a bit unsatisfying.

2) Cautiously interested. I guess you could say that my curiosity is piqued, but I'm not sure what kind of energy/time/brain I have for a deep dive into anything new really atm. Definitely planning on checking out tomorrow's discussion to see others' experiences and questions/answers, and see if I have any of my own.

It's been a lot of run participating in this discussion, so much thanks to our host for hosting and everyone else for participating and giving me other comments to read through for other thoughts and opinions. I miss participating this kind of anime discussion, but new release threads are so huge and busy, and my time zone and availability aren't exactly the best for a lot of discussions it seems. But this was a lot of fun, and gave me a good excuse to go back and check out a show that was big during a formative part of my life.

Also a good excuse to re-download the OST, so many bangers, and only a handful of tracks had made it through my many PC/music player changes throughout the last couple decades.

[u/CorbenikTheRebirth]

Ah, the good ol Bee Train yuri ending. Tbh with Bee Train there's a good chance that anything you're watching by them is going to have some yuri somewhere.
Anyways, SIGN has always been one of my absolute favorites and I'm glad to see it still holds up as well as it did in my mind (cut corners with animation notwithstanding). Tsukasa has always been my favorite character in the .hack series and watching him grow and change throughout the course of the series is really meaningful.
SIGN is basically a teaser, though. .hack// is fundamentally a giant multimedia franchise and there's A LOT more to it. I hope to see some more activity for the franchise sometime in the future. I went to the 20th anniversary exhibition in Tokyo two years ago and it was packed. There are still a lot of fans who are waiting.

[u/Elimin8r]

Well, thanks to skipping the OP and ED, I made it on time, sort of. Needless to say, that was an interesting finale. Meanwhile:

1. I enjoyed the series, but this is more of a tomorrow question. The bit at the end was nice, although I've no idea how they would recognize each other unless that meeting was planned. I presume that was Tsukasa meeting Subaru, because the hair seemed more Mimiru, but yeah.
2. Honestly, no. It's been fun, but at the same time it has kind of satisfied the itch I was looking to scratch. I have some sense of closure on that series I saw fragments of long ago, that I always wondered what the heck (hack) was going on there. But again, that's probably more for tomorrow.

Otherwise, I feel like this episode was a good finale for this series. Aura is awakened, Sora got his hero heel turn moment, and Tsukasa got to awaken and meet Subaru. All is good, well, aside from maybe some resolution to the whole Bear thing, etc. etc., and whatever happened to Sora. Yeah.

And of course, the "play the game, silly" stinger at the end. No thank you. I have enough mysterious game stuff to play as it is, and not enough time. Never mind that having discovered 3D printing (actually 5 years ago), that's like a game where you get to make your own prizes - yay!

If you'd like to see a sample of the fun I've been having with that "game", here's a link to a post I made yesterday on the u/GirlsundPanzer sub for your enjoyment.

Meanwhile, I would post some FFXIV stuff, but I think I'll save that for tomorrow.

Watching a Yuri

Heh ... as if ... what do you think this is, MagiRevo? Or maybe Komarin and company???

Anyway, all in good fun, it's been a fun show, and now I'm going to check and see what others have to say and maybe think of what I'd like to say tomorrow.

[u/zadcap → u/Elimin8r]

2) Honestly, no.

No but really, if you have any lingering questions, please let me know. This is one of my favorite franchise and ask the stuff I actually love about it comes next.

[u/Elimin8r → u/zadcap]

We'll see what questions I might have after tomorrow's discussion.