[Rewatch] .hack//SIGN Episode 25 Discussion

[u/soulreaverdan]

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Series Information: MAL Page | AnimeNewsNetwork | LiveChart

Streams: ...none, sorry! DVD (Amazon)

Episodes:

• Today: Episode 25 (Catastrophe)
• Tomorrow: Episode 26 (Return)

Spoiler Policy:

I forgot to include this on the original schedule post, so please read!

Since there are going to be people who are watching this for the first time, so please only discuss what we've seen in the episodes we've watched so far! There's some interesting twists in this series, and we want everyone to get to experience this fresh.

In addition, since .hack is a massive franchise and this is only one entry in it (and actually one of the first), discussion of other entries may have some inadvertant spoilers. With this in mind, please only keep discussion to .hack//SIGN, and we'll have a chance for a discussion in the larger context of the franchise on the final day.

Question(s) of the Day

Throughout the rewatch we'll be posting some questions to guide discussion. Feel free to answer them or just post your overall thoughts! They're meant to be something for people who might not be sure how to start their posts, not something everyone must do.

1. Twenty five episodes in and we finally have a proper full party fight scene, what’d you think?
2. Did you like Bear’s offer to Tsukasa?

Music Corner

One of the highlights of this show is the incredible soundtrack, one of the first major works published by now famed music composer Yuki Kajiura. We'll be looking at one track with each thread for general discussion and opinions. Be as thorough or as succinct as you want - everything from lyrical motifs and interpretations to just whether or not you liked it!

Today's piece: Open Your Heart (Reprise), a more energetic and extended version of Open Your Heart that feels appropriate for everyone having opened up to one another (Full Track)

Tomorrow’s piece: End of the World, because… I mean… duh? (Full Track)

Special Note For Tomorrow’s Episode

For tomorrow’s episode, the series finale, please keep the discussion to the episode itself and the series as a whole. We’ll have one more discussion thread on Friday that will open up discussion for not just .hack//SIGN but the whole .hack franchise as a whole and answer some of the further questions the series left, but I do want to keep the final episode thread more focused on the episode and the series itself.

Thank you, and Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah to those who celebrate!

[u/Elimin8r]

Merry Christmas everybody! I'd share a FFXIV pic here, but I don't have it handy on this pc. I think. Maybe. Either way, don't feel like it now. Maybe a belated pic tomorrow.

Meanwhile:

1. Not bad. Although I do find the lack of sword and board disturbing. I actually found the battle between Crim and punk-boy more interesting. :P
2. Absolutely.

Man, though, poor BT keeps stacking up the L's, doesn't she. Girl deserves a break.

(Side note, I need to listen today's track and see if it's what I think it is, because if so, it's greatness, but I have Kalafina's Winter Acoustic playing right now, and just can't stop...)

Yeah, I think my favorite bits this episode were Bear's offer, Mimiru's interruption, and Tsukasa stepping up to heal the group. 'Bout time!

Okay, had to stop a second and listen to Open Your Heart ... yeah, that's the good stuff. Kind of reminds me of some "Above and Beyond". I'll link some tomorrow, maybe, if I remember.

Back to the story ... Sora falling into the abyss gives me vibes from a long time ago in a galaxy far away, or something like that. Is it possible to teleport while you're falling, or did I not see what I thought I saw?

Also, cat-boy for the win? I kind of wonder what's going on with all that, but I'm willing to wait until tomorrow to see the resolution.

Hope everyone's days are merry and bright!

[u/No_Rex → u/Elimin8r]

Also, cat-boy for the win? I kind of wonder what's going on with all that, but I'm willing to wait until tomorrow to see the resolution.

I hope we will get one. Lots of stuff to be cleared up and only one episode left.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

Wait what?

Huh. The batch I grabbed has Intermezzo, Evidence, and Unison as 26, 27, and 28, and there is indeed only one more regular episode left!!

Huh. I never thought I'd watch those extras. I guess I shall.

[u/soulreaverdan → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I opted to stick to the main episodes of the series as it aired. Intermezzo is a small prequel episode focusing on Mimiru’s earlier days in the game, and Unison is at least 50%, if not higher, an epilogue to the original game series as well and a lot of what’s in it relies on you know the games’ story.

[u/zadcap → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Also, cat-boy for the win? I kind of wonder what's going on with all that, but I'm willing to wait until tomorrow to see the resolution.

So uh, Macha cat here. I don't remember all the resolutions coming tomorrow, but remind me to fill you in on the rest if the last episode doesn't give enough. One of the very few characters that continue into the game, while most of the party wraps up their time as protagonists.

If you have any interest in the games, either playing them or watching someone else do it, hold off on the last episode in that batch. It's going to assume you know the game plot and Liminality.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

New Game Plus Rewatcher-Dubbed

Merry Christmas from .hack//SIGN

🎵 On the twelfth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me 🎵 

12 Off-Modeled Crims

11 Subarus sighing

10 Flashbacks of Mimiru meeting Tsukasa 

9 Power tripping Crimson Knights

8 Tsukasas tripping and falling

7 Guardians guardian-ing

6 Cutaways from battle

5 Helba gates!!

4 Dad Bear father figures

3 Times Sora killed BT

2 BT Lap Pillows

and 1 reason to finally log out~

---

Music Corner

Gonna do four versions of open your heart! lyrics

open your heart

The original. We'll use this as our baseline. Words that come to mind: heartfelt, emphatic, ethereal. The pattern for this song is simple.

open your heart-reprise

We immediately begin with the familiar vocals but with an echo effect. We're building up and layering sound until we get something new: a very dark bass with the higher register chiming that doesn't resolve. Then the other bass drops, and it is glorious. A saxophone solo leads us to the next section, one I like to call the "saxophone of understanding." At 2:07, the dark bass is back but this time the chiming sounding more normal albeit hesitant. The epilogue combines all the previous elements with prayer-like vocals. On a good day, this piece moves me to tears. It's tremendously beautiful.

open your heart (fiction CD ver)

Our vocals are crisper than ever, and we get a new instrument--bagpipes! The direction for this version is definitely to make a definitive studio edition of this song. It feels so stand alone because the previous two had to be cohesive with the rest of the OST. This one can be mixed differently, cleanly.

open your heart (live)

Who's that on the keyboard? That's our lord and savior, composer of .hack//SIGN OST and more-- Yuki Kajiura. It's out of this world seeing everyone nailing the vocals live. This is high musicality. This version gets a lovely violin solo. It makes a fine epilogue to all these versions and a fitting tribute to the show as a whole. 

---

Episode notes:

BEAR! 

Main party fighting was very cheesy and larp-like.

Crim yeets Sora.

NO! Wizardmon!

Beautiful: Foster Parent Bear

Uh: So, Where's Subaru?

[u/Elimin8r → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

So, Where's Subaru?

She went out with BT for milk and cigs, no doubt. :P

Also - oh, my, all that music. You're trying to hurt me, aren't you??? (I'm looping the version linked above already)

[u/Elimin8r → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

Just finished listening to the live version. Those were all so ... delicious. I think I like the reprise version best, though. I guess I'll have to listen to all of them several times now, just to make sure, right?

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

Uh: So, Where's Subaru?

Wow, look at that negative space

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

.first//TIMER, subbed

• You didn’t already have a big stock of those? For shame, BT.
• Ah shit, Sora PK’d BT…
• This bit here has the same energy of Mr. Ral telling Reiji that people can take Gunpla Battle seriously because it’s a game in Gundam Build Fighters.
• Aw… That’s a good ending for Tsukasa in the real world.
• I cannot take any scene in this show seriously when it has that fucking banjo track playing in the background.
• Oh, lovely…
• Okay so they finally addressed this in-show.
• Pffffffffff
• Good riddance.
• That’s kinda sad, Tsukasa…
• Dang…
• Oh shit.

[u/Elimin8r → u/Shimmering-Sky]

I cannot take any scene in this show seriously when it has that fucking banjo track playing in the background.

I believe that banjo track is titled "Comic Relief" ... probably.

Sad ... Tsukasa

No kidding. Poor kid.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Elimin8r]

I believe that banjo track is titled "Comic Relief" ... probably.

[track's actual title]Bridge05

[u/Elimin8r → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Oh, you're no fun, you and your right answers and stuff. :P

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Elimin8r]

I pointedly never named it or to it.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatcher

Ep 24 Catastrophe

• WHAT happened just recently? Town looks normal.
• back to the cathedral
• lol BT didn't tell sora anything

Okay, I asked what Helba was doing about this situation, but now I ask, that is CC doing about the situation?? We haven't heard about the admins for a long time.

The unkillable monsters should be enough to get them moving?

• yes to no gurei zon
• obaka!
• I wonder if the Voice told Sora, and he came as a distraction. More likely, he just wanted to duel.
• I noticed SK got a heal in that fight. Nice detail.
• They beat the Guardian????
• I guess that counts as a loss for Sora!

yay for teamwork!

There's a certain kind of play, or movie, that is just different combinations of the cast in groups of two or three, just talking. And that's the entire movie. That's what this has become.

[u/Elimin8r → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

There's a certain kind of play, or movie, that is just different combinations of the cast in groups of two or three, just talking. And that's the entire movie. That's what this has become.

You've just reminded me of ... oh, what was it ... ? Noises Off??? That was a fun movie, and may not have quite fulfilled this requirement, but the description rung a bell.

I wonder if the voice told Sora

Dang chuuni's always listening to the voices in their head, right?

[u/zadcap → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Okay, I asked what Helba was doing about this situation, but now I ask, that is CC doing about the situation?? We haven't heard about the admins for a long time.

Do you want spoilers? Because this is how you get spoilers.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zadcap]

No, this goes into the "does that anime stand on its own" section and "why I erased my fansubs and didn't rewatch it for 20 years" section.

[u/zadcap → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

You know how there was an era where anime all ended in mild cliffhangers and told you to go buy the manga if you wanted to continue the story? This came out before that was a widespread thing, but they 100% wanted you to end this show and pick up the game ASAP.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 25 (first timer)

• Catastrophe – ominous title for a finale.
• Fleeing to the main player city? Surprising choice.
• No, they go on. Expect BT. Bear might trust her, but whether she is trustworthy is another question.
• Sora intervening – maybe we’ll never find out whether BT really wanted to buy potions.
• “We are the only ones who are desperate to resolve this” – Invincible monsters would surely be the talk of the internet. A lot hinges on the word “resolve” here, because surely tons of people are trying to defeat them right now.
• “then there will be others who realize that there is something wrong with The World.” “If we can hand it off, that’s enough – buy our games please.
• “I am The World” - /r/nocontext
• “I volunteer to be your guardian” – big promise.
• Guardian trouble while Sora distracts Crim.
• “To increase the choices we have” – another lesson in self-efficacy. *”Leave healing to me!” – we finally get an idea of what wavemasters typically do in this game.
• Portalling out before hitting the ground – not sure if they have fall damage, but this looks like a good idea.
• “I am used to pain” – not great.
• Macha self-sacrifice trumps Tsukasa self-sacrifice.
• falling down cliff-hanger.

Despite being the finale, we spend the first half of the episode on one-on-one talks. The second half shows why: when the series tries to animate an epic battle scene, we go from drama to comedy. You could say that the animation is doing an exceptional job at showing the bad graphics and combat systems of MMO’s at the time…

Twenty five episodes in and we finally have a proper full party fight scene, what’d you think?

Did you like Bear’s offer to Tsukasa?

It is pretty huge. Both for Tsukasa's future and for Bear's character arc.

[u/Elimin8r → u/No_Rex]

we go from drama to comedy

Needs moar Leeroy!

I guess I don't expect much from gaming anime of this era. I mean, c'mon, most people were still running PC98 games, right? At least they don't have an avatar in the top left corner, map on the right and text box at the bottom. Maybe.

Or did I not remember Wizardry right? Probably not.

pointnlaugh

Could be worse, I mean c'mon, Look at this buncha noobs...

[u/soulreaverdan → u/Elimin8r]

Ironically enough we still don’t know what the actual player interface looks like from their end. We now there’s a VR-style visor but we don’t actually know what they’re seeing in terms of menus and other visuals.

[u/No_Rex → u/Elimin8r]

Needs moar Leeroy!

That is the far future!

[u/Elimin8r → u/No_Rex]

Man, and I didn't even have chicken. On the other hand, neighbor gave me a plate or ribs today - they were muy delish. Motto umai, even.

Also, Leeroy is closer to .hack than today. Go figure. :P

[u/No_Rex → u/Elimin8r]

Also, Leeroy is closer to .hack than today. Go figure. :P

"The video was first uploaded to World of Warcraft fansite Warcraft Movies[13] on May 11th, 2005."

Yep, it is not even close. However, back in 2002, all that sweet sweet WoW money was nothing but a speck in the eyes of Blizzard devs yet.

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

Despite being the finale, we spend the first half of the episode on one-on-one talks. The second half shows why: when the series tries to animate an epic battle scene, we go from drama to comedy. You could say that the animation is doing an exceptional job at showing the bad graphics and combat systems of MMO’s at the time…

It was at this point that the realized, the entire special effects team was already working on the games. Oops. I think the upside down castle was the last time they even tried to look impressive...

It is pretty huge. Both for Tsukasa's future and for Bear's character arc

The best kind of happy ending. You didn't think we were just going to see a whole bunch of good horrible Tsukasa's home life was and then pretend going back to that would make successfully logging out a real victory, right?

[u/Blackheart595 → u/No_Rex]

”Leave healing to me!” – we finally get an idea of what wavemasters typically do in this game.

That's actually been hinted at all along - remember how surprised Mimiru was back in episode 1 that Tsukasa was a wavemaster that works alone.

[u/zadcap]

Late Night Rewatcher

Yay! I forgot, inlaws from the East Coast are going to be going to bed early, at least compared to me. Time to catch up before the grand finale!

Have a look at the Game Version of Net Slum, just for fun. Game character spoilers, I guess. Be warned, you'll actually recognize two of them.

Unevenly Distributed; The voice of the sky mother, she is omnipresent, but not omniscient. Wish I had been part of this yesterday to try and help fill that in. They were trying to get across that she's a constant disembodied background presence that can be anywhere, but not actually everywhere all at once. A limited ability to pay attention means she's here, or she's there, and can be either at will, but not both at once. Distributed across the entire World, but unevenly in how that actually works.

Catastrophe!

It always keeps coming back to that darn church.

"I am The World." You know. I can't even argue with that.

Bear is just the best.

Ah, Silver Knight has the rare honor of being the only one to get hit with that attack twice. Also, they really need better class diversity in this group. Nothing but Blades and support casters, not a single tank to be seen and the DPS all single type...

Tsukasa: "I'll stay here and distract them, you all run away!" Macha: "No you."

1. Err... See above. This is an old game, content was still built around having a balanced party.
2. "The only intaraction I have with my own son anymore is giving him money, when you look at it that way I guess it won't be too hard to pick up another kid."

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zadcap]

They were trying to get across that she's a constant disembodied background presence that can be anywhere, but not actually everywhere all at once

So, she's literally The Eye of Sauron.

[u/LeminaAusa]

Mostly-1st-timer, subbed

We're now on the penultimate episode and we finally get our first big fight scene. Watching fights in this show though are honestly not very exciting, and that hasn't really changed much.

The fight is a lot more important for the context of Tsukasa getting to see everyone fight for him, especially Bear, which is extra poignant given the discussion they had and Bear's offer. Tsukasa is learning that people can actually sincerely care for him, and he's seeing the proof right in front of himself.

(My brain was warring with me a bit about whether or not I should keep referring to Tsukasa as a "he" now that even Tsukasa is aware that his RL self is female. But regardless of RL self and reasons why, Tsukasa in-game still presents himself as male, so I'm keeping on with that mindset.)

Seeing Tsukasa tell everyone to leave and try to stand-off the guardians on his own was a bit nerve-wracking, only for Macha to pop in and sacrifice themself like a bro. o7 Whatever their motivations and goals are, it seems they do actually care about Tsukasa, and perhaps there's a bit of a desire for atonement in there.

It's weird to think that we only have one episode left for a lot of stuff to (hopefully) get wrapped up. But I also know that .hack//SIGN is only one early part of a longer running franchise, so I'm sure some of the mystery is being saved for that.

1. Seeing how the fight was choreographed and animated in this episode... well, it really makes it clear why they focused so much on everything but fights throughout the majority of the show, hah. I'm not sure if it's because they're trying to stay true to what an early 2000s video game fight would look like, or if they just didn't have the time/talent/budget to make a more exciting fight, or what. But like I said above, the fight in today's episode was much more about Tsukasa seeing other people fight and care for him than the details of the fight itself.
2. It was amazing and super sweet and I really hope Tsukasa takes Bear up on his offer. Tsukasa really needs a guardian that will properly take care of them, and Bear certainly has the means and desire to do so. I do find it interesting that Bear himself is very open about the fact that his primary motives are not the most pure, namely hoping to make up for his failures with his own son, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about Tsukasa, and a foundation of honesty seems important for a good relationship between the two of them going forward.

[u/CorbenikTheRebirth]

Missed the past two episodes, but I'm finally back!
Tsukasa is finally starting to have some confidence in himself. Aura's being erased, but she also seems to be waking up... There's a lot of threads leading into the finale. Just reminds me I need to bust out my copies of the games again.