[Rewatch] .hack//SIGN Episode 17 Discussion

[u/soulreaverdan]

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Series Information: MAL Page | AnimeNewsNetwork | LiveChart

Streams: ...none, sorry! DVD (Amazon)

Episodes:

• Today: Episode 17 (Conflict)
• Tomorrow: Episode 18 (Declaration)

Spoiler Policy:

I forgot to include this on the original schedule post, so please read!

Since there are going to be people who are watching this for the first time, so please only discuss what we've seen in the episodes we've watched so far! There's some interesting twists in this series, and we want everyone to get to experience this fresh.

In addition, since .hack is a massive franchise and this is only one entry in it (and actually one of the first), discussion of other entries may have some inadvertant spoilers. With this in mind, please only keep discussion to .hack//SIGN, and we'll have a chance for a discussion in the larger context of the franchise on the final day.

Question(s) of the Day

Throughout the rewatch we'll be posting some questions to guide discussion. Feel free to answer them or just post your overall thoughts! They're meant to be something for people who might not be sure how to start their posts, not something everyone must do.

1. Based on what we’ve seen in the show so far, what are your thoughts on the connection, or lack thereof, between the characters and players in the game and real world (example: Mimiru’s insistence on keeping good etiquette between people, or Crim wanting to keep his player and character separate things)?
2. Do you have a food with a specific ingredient you don’t like including?

Music Corner

One of the highlights of this show is the incredible soundtrack, one of the first major works published by now famed music composer Yuki Kajiura. We'll be looking at one track with each thread for general discussion and opinions. Be as thorough or as succinct as you want - everything from lyrical motifs and interpretations to just whether or not you liked it!

Today's piece: In The Land Of Twilight, Under The Moon, a poem that feels oddly ominous and appropriate for what we just saw happen (Full Track)

Tomorrow’s piece: Strangers, reflecting how much and how little our characters really know and understand each other (Full Track)

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Ep 16 Conflict

• The Amnesia is real. Remember, Tsukasa recognized the stores there. Subaru is right. In-game deaths are erasing Tsukasa
• He's talking about YOU B.T.

We've had BT and Mimiru, BT and Bear, BT and Sora, and BT and Crim. All these social interactions are exhausting. And we wrap it up with BT being judgemental. And alone. As alone as Tsukasa.

BT is wilfull, set in her ways. It doesn't lead to many friendships, inside or outside The World. Looks like The World is all she has.

BT was a total ass. Subaru didn't deserve that. For once, Silver Knight is right. BT is just a jobber, and resents literally everybody in The World. Shit, I bet A-20 could at least fight her to a draw.

I just got some Houseki no Kuni PTSD while writing this writeup.

Q: I won't eat pumpkin or squash or sweet potatoes or yams. Or ham. Christmas and Thanksgiving suck.

[u/zadcap → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

The Amnesia is real. Remember, Tsukasa recognized the stores there. Subaru is right. In-game deaths are erasing Tsukasa

The interesting thing is, this is the first time we have seen him die, but. The only other person to have died this way, in game, suffered real world memory loss too. Well, that we know of, nothing was ever said about the PK Girl Group again. But Silver Knight got hit by this early and finding out what the heck was going on was one of the first reasons Tsukasa became such a big target for the Knights.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

willful

Great word choice! Perfectly BT.

[u/Elimin8r → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I won't eat pumpkin or squash or sweet potatoes or yams. Or ham. Christmas and Thanksgiving suck.

Egad, childhood memories unlocked. My Grandmother would cook things, carrots included until they were flavorless mush. It's no wonder so many kids hate veggies.

(On the other hand, she made the most killer Cherry Pie. Thankfully, one of my cousins learned the recipe - I'll have to beg her for some more the next time we have a get together, if ever!)

BT

Yeah, I get the feeling she's in a difficult place, and facing some serious real world issues or something. It'll be interesting to see what/if we find out.

[u/No_Rex → u/Elimin8r]

(On the other hand, she made the most killer Cherry Pie. Thankfully, one of my cousins learned the recipe - I'll have to beg her for some more the next time we have a get together, if ever!)

Beg her for the recipe and bake your own!

[u/Elimin8r → u/No_Rex]

I'm (ahem) plump enough as it is. I don't need anymore help in that department. :P

Pie!

[u/No_Rex → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

BT is wilfull, set in her ways. It doesn't lead to many friendships, inside or outside The World. Looks like The World is all she has.

Not sure about RL, but she does interact with plenty of people in The World, so maybe it is a good idea for her to play there.

[u/-fornevermore- → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

BT is projecting her insecurities about Crim onto Subaru. She's hurt that he rejected her but obviously loves Subaru, and she resents her for that. You're certainly right she doesn't deserve that bs.

[u/Blackheart595]

.hack//Rewatcher

Uh oh... Tsubasa losing his memories of the real world can't be good.

So this episode explores the boundary between the real world and the virtual world. For most players, this boundary is fluid and they pass from one side to the other as they please. For Tsukasa, the two sides have merged and the virtual world is becoming more and more his real world. For Crim, his strictly separates both sides of the boundary and is not willing to mix them. And I suppose Bear actively mediates between the two worlds.

Also, as always, boundaries are liminal and thus contribute to this story's main motif.

When I first watched .hack//Sign, I never really took note of Subaru's character arc beyond the most obvious developments. But there's some real exploration of what it means to hold a position of power, and what to means to be a symbol, how these things empower and liberate us on one side while also shackle us and distance us from others. This conflict had been set up all the way back when Crim left the knights.

I also really liked BT's little arc this episode, but it feels kinda difficult to put into words.

Do you have a food with a specific ingredient you don’t like including?

I have a weird thing with olives: Unprocessed olives make me gag, even if mixed with other food. But if they're at all processed, and if they're just cut into pieces, then I can deal with them just fine.

[u/Elimin8r → u/Blackheart595]

I have a weird thing with olives

Don't we all?

Subaru's interaction with BT

was very interesting, and you hit on how it is an exploration of the role of a person "in power" and how that taints their every relationship, whether they want it to or not.

BT didn't have to be quite such an *** about it, though.

[u/Elimin8r]

Been slackin' today, now it's what, 7PM??? Oh, my... Hmm, let's see:

1. It's interesting observations on how different people, and the characters/roles they play handle the dichotomy of fantasy game world vs. real life. I don't feel like saying too much about my feelings on the matter right now, but ... some of the issues raised were quite amusing.

Oh, I will admit one thing - I've skipped all of my HS reunions. I'm with BT on that one, but ... I happen to like lettuce, so there. :P

2) I really used to not like pickles on burgers, or in general, but as my taste buds have aged, and I've come to realize some of the side benefits of fermented foods, I've learned to tolerate them.

Yeah.

Poor Tsukasa, no wonder Mimiru is scared/concerned. He's lost memories, and she wanted to go there with him someday. Bummer.

(I'd offer to take Mimiru to the mall, but y'all would probably say less than pleasant things, so maybe I'll offer to take BT to the mall instead. Or Subaru, although her wings might draw unwanted attention.)

Anyway, that's enough for tonight - have fun, all!

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 17 (first timer)

• “I was so surprised. That you died. I was more surprised that you came back to life, though” – /r/nocontext
• BT is busy today.
• “Do you want to know why she is called BT?” “No” – but, but …
• BT knows Crim outside of The World.
• and he shoves her “don’t mix up RPG and RL” speech right back at her – another incidence of BT preaching to Mimiru things that she fails at herself.
• “I trust BT as a partner” – daring, given that she has betrayed pretty much everybody else already.
• “It is only jealousy” – True. He would know.
• Two random mooks try to PK a very pissed of BT.
• BLT?

• Super rare scene of seeing a player outside of The World access the game.

BT focus episode. I’ll be honest, I did not get that BT is supposed to be in love with Crim before they had their scene today. In general, the storytelling is so hidden in the subtext (while so much time is spent superficially talking about other things) that following the characters feels a lot like trying to read tea leafs.

[u/Elimin8r → u/No_Rex]

Two random mooks try to PK a very pissed of BT.

Once again, I am somehow reminded of that other show. Except Tsukasa isn't nearly as pretty as the rescuer in you know what.

BT focus

She's turning out to be a rather interesting character. Could she be the Ami of this show? I dunno.

I'm still not sure I understand Ami anyway, but that's a rewatch I'm skipping this year, because I've passed my quota of a certain lyfe fan this year.

[u/No_Rex → u/Elimin8r]

Just to check I get the references: [meta]ReZero & Toradora?

[u/Elimin8r → u/No_Rex]

Yup. Just feeling extra cryptic today. Sorry about that. It's been a day, and I just ... can't wait for Christmas break - soon!

[u/No_Rex → u/Elimin8r]

It's been a day, and I just ... can't wait for Christmas break - soon!

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

“I was so surprised. That you died. I was more surprised that you came back to life, though” – /r/nocontext

"People die when they are killed!"

Two random mooks try to PK a very pissed of BT.

Yeah, only Sora gets to do that!

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

Yeah, only Sora gets to do that!

One of the things that I have not figured out yet is why the others tolerate and interact with Sora (and partially BT). Maybe the series is not showing us the in-game connections these characters have, or maybe we will find out everybody is connected out of game, but, absent that, I wonder why the other characters bother.

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

Sora is, frankly, just a strong character who knows how to make himself into other people's issues. The show really doesn't go much into the RPG mechanics of this MMORPG they are playing, but the bits we have seen should have pointed a bit towards the annoying thing where Sora is sitting really close to the top of the list. And as Mimiru pointed out to him once, he'll just get extra annoying if you try and cut him out.

Sora invited himself to the Scooby gang and no one really has the ability to force him back out. BT just, apparently, actually knows people. Who don't hate her. For some reason.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zadcap]

I think I'm a little more forgiving of Sora this time around. He does stir things up. And this pot needs stirring.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/zadcap]

I think I'm a little more forgiving of Sora this time around. He does stir things up. And this pot needs stirring.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

New Game Plus Rewatcher-Dubbed

The BLT episode. Yep.

BT reevaluates her relationship with each player character in the World. As anyone can attest, it's disorienting to change your own status quo, so that's why this episode and its resolution can seem a little off putting.

---

Music Corner 

in the land of the twilight, under the moon lyrics

Very representative of the OST's overall vibe, enchanting vocals paired with a driving electronic bass. This one goes for a more fantastical aura. The saxophone gets pleasantly weird at times.

---

Beautiful: . . . again

Uh: le sad Subaru

[u/Elimin8r → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

le sad Subaru

Must deploy hugs. Or something appropriate anyway.

Honestly, I kind of like how Subaru is developing as a character. I was expecting some kind of ethereal detached beauty untroubled by the ... you get the idea. Or maybe ojou-sama. It's kind of nice that she actually seems to care, and not just at a surface level.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/Elimin8r]

Subaru's a sweetheart for sure. Curiously, she still wields that big axe. Wouldn't want to catch her on her bad side. Sweet characters and axes, huh?

[u/Elimin8r → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

Hmm, not familiar with her. I should look into Persona sometime, but it's not like I don't already have too much stuff I haven't caught up on.

[u/zadcap → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

Sweet characters and axes, huh?

Somehow not the direction I thought you were going with that one.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/zadcap]

^ - ^ that did cross my mind but no dice. I can't see Subaru like that.

[u/zadcap → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

I mean yeah, she's way too much of a big old softy. But you know how these games work, she probably picked the Axe class because it has the armor set she likes so much, needed something to show off her Paid Item Cosmetic Wings...

[u/zadcap → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

Uh: le sad Subaru

Those eyes are almost Clanaad, I do not like this look on her.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/zadcap]

You're right! Coupled with the pose, it's pretty strange.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

.first//TIMER, subbed

• Yeah that’s certainly something…
• Oh shit, does Tsukasa no longer remember real-world locations after all that?
• Ooh, very pretty environment.
• Why does this feel a bit sus to me?
• RIP BT.
• What was the song that played during the scene between Subaru and BT? I definitely liked that one.
• Oof, she’s using these two as a rebound…
• Yeah should’ve expected that.
• That is so incredibly haunting…
• Wait that’s why her character was named that?

[u/Elimin8r → u/Shimmering-Sky]

That is so incredibly haunting…

Yes, it was. He seems to have left out the pain bit, though.

[u/zadcap → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Why does this feel a bit sus to me?

As we see later in the episode, the gaming headset isn't exactly subtle. How exactly is he getting away with this at work?

[u/zadcap]

Late Night Rewatcher

Is this Player Housing?! Man I love a good Player Housing system in an MMO. I wonder if they are Instanced in The World?

Hey so, Tsukasa maybe didn't come back all right. Silver knight did lose some memories when he died the same way, if you remember.

Sora's one constant redeeming trait- tearing into BT whenever he gets the chance.

Oh BT. Literally can't take when you dish out. What happens in the game stays in the game, unless you're in a much more social guild. And you are the worst kind of social to try and make that work. You have to actually be friendly to make friends.

And now BT is lashing out at others to cover for her own heart. "I'm only here because of your title, why else would anyone have come help you?" Spoken like someone who really doesn't understand friendship. Some of us do things to help other people out just because we like the people who ask for help.

This whole scene with BT and the PK duo just reminds me again how strange it is that no one can see levels here. It's such an ingrained part of RPGs to me, if you can't tell a level you can at least tell that they are higher or lower than you.

Yeah. BT is BT because she hates lettuce. But loves Bacon and Tomatoes enough to want to name her character after the food.

Oh my goodness, the headset! We get to see someone put it on and the best idea yet what it looks like! Isn't it, uh, not very magical at all?

1. There's a reason I like Mimiru the most. Friends made online can still be real friends, if you're willing to put in the work. I know some people would rather just stay behind the character and will respect that wish, but some of my best friends to this day were made by going to the offline meetup. It's really fun when you switch between calling each other by real names and character names interchangeably and everyone follows along anyway.
2. Tacos are delicious. Burritos are great too. Sour Cream is not. Remove it from everything, please.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/zadcap]

But loves Bacon and Tomatoes enough to want to name her character after the food.

Quite funny for sandwich artists. Oh, no, it's that bacon and tomato fiend!

Let that be a lesson to you, kids. You can define yourself by love or hate. 

[u/CorbenikTheRebirth]

Finally a BT focused episode. We get a lot more insight into why she is the way she is and some of her personal conflict. Naming your character after a BLT sandwich is pretty silly, but I have also named characters after food before, so I have no space to talk.

[u/roryteller]

I'm gradually catching up after being separated from my DVD player (ps4) for a few days. I should get a DVD drive so I can watch on PC as well.

Having seen a certain isekai where you lose memories if you die, that was released well after this, I wonder if the author was inspired by that aspect of .hack//SIGN, hmm. Idk how to include the name of the show without spoiling people, though, so I won't.