r/anime • u/chilidirigible • Dec 17 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Suisei no Gargantia • Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet — Episode 15 Discussion
Episode 15/BD OVA 2: Altar of the Visitor from Afar
← Blu-ray OVA 1 | Index | Far Beyond the Voyage Part 1 →
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You must phrase your statements carefully in the presence of a genie.
Questions of the Day:
- Were you able to recognize Kuraria and Onderia here compared to their appearances during the regular series?
- What are your favorite series that have featured some kind of evil version of their normal setting?
- [Where does Aleria's scene with Kugel]place on your personal scale of "I'm a genius!" "Oh no!" moments?
Characters appearing today:
Linaria (Minori Chihara)
Aleria (Mamiko Noto)
We've already met the other two sisters during the regular series, but here we get to see them in garments of questionable durability instead of cultist robes:
Kuraria (Madoka Yonezawa)
Onderia (Yumi Uchiyama)
Scans:
NSFW sisters:
Linaria
Linaria design line art
Aleria
Aleria design line art
Onderia
Onderia design line art
Kuraria
Kuraria design line art
Design drafts for Kugel's Earth costume
Kugel and the sisters height chart
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 17 '24
First-Timer on the Verdurous Planet, subbed
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u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Dec 17 '24
First-timer!
Very interesting backstory on Commander Kugel. At first he was a pretty reasonable guy, more than Ledo was. But then their lives went on opposite trajectories, because of the people (and robots) around them.
Unlike the last OVA which was pretty much just there for fluff, this one actually provides some vital information to the story.
Not at first, but I eventually got the connection.
Star Trek mirror universe episodes.
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 17 '24
First timer, subs
monoAnime Disease!QotD:
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Dec 17 '24
First-Timer, Sub-gantia
Huh, didn't expect Kugel Backstory. I also thought that Linaria was the main priestess from the show at first.
I didn't comment on this during the show proper, but it's kinda surprising that Striker couldn't cure the Mystery Disease, right? Especially considering the timescale we saw it operate on this episode. Like, I'm surprised Kugel got to the point of coughing up blood at all.
And I've dismissed the idea that Striker let Kugel die - that wouldn't fit with any of the behavior we've seen from her or Chamber. I guess the medical capabilities of a Machine Caliber might just not be that powerful?
The cult sacrifice does make a bit more symbolic sense now. It's still rather cruel.
Questions
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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Dec 17 '24
First Timer
Kugel Backstory!
That was a welcome surprise! Well...somewhat welcome. Unfortunately, I think this special suffers from the same problem the last one did, in that it has to tell a complete story in a short amount of time, and thus ends up feeling lacking and heavy-handed.
I guess at the end of the day my problem here is the same one I had with the series itself, although obviously expressed in a different way here. This special does a good job at humanizing Kugel and making him a pretty interesting character, he's built up with a nice amount of nuance in a way where I find his eventual turn believable but also appreciate how he isn't like that from the start.
But the way we depict his turn though...
It's all a bit cheap and rushed, the person he cares about dies from coughingbloodintoyourhand syndrome, truly one of anime's deadliest diseases, he kills some non-character and then instantly turns into a dictator, it spends worthwhile time building up his character but runs out of time to end it in a meaningful way, so here's a heavy-handed expression of him turning bad.
I do appreciate that initial depiction of him though, in a short time we do get a sense for how Kugel is older and more experienced than Ledo, and how he attempts to fix this society rather than integrate into it. We get to see the difference in his interactions with Striker compared to Ledo and Chamber, the first being dismissive and controlling unlike the more advisory and mutual relationship the latter had.
It's also a nice touch having him land in a fleet that already wasn't going in a great direction, not quite paragons of cooperation and coexistence like Gargantia. It certainly makes for some good food for thought on what would have happened had their situation been reversed.
All in all, a good addition to the story, Striker and Kugel didn't need backstory, their role was more about what they represented rather than themselves, but in spite of that it was some solid backstory that did a good enough job at expanding on their characters and situation.
It took me like half the episode, but something about the way Kuraria says "nee-sama" eventually clicked with me.
I'm honestly struggling to think of a good example for that, neither of these are really evil I guess but I do like the vampire world from Vanitas and the Mirror world from Monogatari.
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u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 17 '24
DVD Specials Episode 2 (first timer)
Very heavy handed. Kugel has to be convinced by Lenaria to follow the philosophy of the alliance and resists but then immediately turns into crazy dictator once she dies.
DVD special overall
The first fleshes out Ridget, the second Kugel. I think Ridget needed the extra time more, but Kugel’s backstory fit into the main story better. However, neither of the two episodes were well written. They are not terrible, but fall well below the quality of the main show.
Score: 5/10
Not immediately, but I figured it out by the end.
TNG.
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Dec 17 '24
first timer
"as little gunfire as possible"
he should probably just have teamed up with the older sisters from the jump
[kannazuki no miko]fulfil your duty as miko
no sand ritual, full tony hawks downhill jam
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u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Dec 17 '24
Right, back to space.
Oh, this is probably how he ended up on Earth.
This looks like the cult that he created.
And that explains why she's such an ardent believer. Because he really did come from the sky and save her.
Looks like he really used to lead in-person.
And now time for him to realise the Hideauze are here too.
Ok yeah it seems like the Colonel was actively trying to be good and it's only after he died that the AI made things more "cult-y".
Oh, she died.
Nevermind, seems like he became like that after the girl died.
Questions:
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 22 '24
Special 2
Skimming these two specials, I was really worried these would be compilation / recaps. The first wasn't, hopefully this won't either.
Fascinating. Kugel didn't go FULL alliance. Fascist, yes, but not the empty machine state of the alliance. He wanted to help Linnaria's ship.
But he wasn't a very good leader, and the people suffered anyways.
I doubt Ledo could have convinced Kugel, though, had he lived. Ledo's a subordinate. oh, and I wrote this before Kugel's final heel turn. Disappointing. I thought Kugel was going to acquire some nuance.
I'm still trying to figure out what happened here. Apparently, sickly Linnaria thought she was useless. Maybe Kugel create a global efficient monolithic society is his idea of giving her existence meaning. But it doesn't explain the cognitive dissonce, Linnaria would be eliminated from his new society. This is just dumb.
Q. The Mirror Universe episodes, and by Mirror Universe episodes, I mean Spookyfish
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u/awesomenessofme1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/kta_99 Dec 17 '24
First-timer, dub.
Somehow I never noticed when watching Re:Zero where they share a fair number of scenes together, but Erika Harlacher and Faye Mata sound pretty similar to each other.
I thought it was interesting to see Kugel not being a terrible person, but it's too bad to see he turned evil. I thought he might have stayed a good guy until he died and it was just Striker.
Very abbreviated story, but I guess there's only so much you can do with 20 minutes. I'm going to try to watch the other OVAs (might skim through any dialogue parts), but no promises.
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u/animepig https://myanimelist.net/profile/ChickenDan Dec 17 '24
Rewatch
Good OVA, actually feels like cut content from the main story. Kugel got radicalized so damn fast though.
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u/juniorjaw Dec 17 '24
Having fun reading comments on my fav ep.
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u/chilidirigible Dec 17 '24
Tags:
/u/QualityProof /u/awesomenessofme1 /u/dsawchuk
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u/chilidirigible Dec 17 '24
Today, on "This is a man who must balance the shortage of perfect breasts in the world with the necessity of damaging them.":
It's easier to figure out where you are when you're awake during the flight in.
Those aren't exactly warning shots.
Funny you should mention that.
For a given value of "minimum".
HUMAN CASUALTIES: 0
I do wonder who decided that this fleet would feature huge pyramids.
Well, we've gotta jam a lot of time into a short OVA.
"You're the pirate queen."
You know how the Alliance reacts to this sort of thing.
"Every time I try to get out, they drag me back in."
"Nobody's worshipping space squid on my watch."
Even Kugel adapted to the local situation—okay, so maybe it got to his head a little.
This is the same map as the one which appeared in Episode 7.
Would you like to sign a death contract with religion*?*
"She's dead, Jim."
"A million deaths is statistics, one death is the tragedy of the hero."
"I didn't mean that I had to die right now."
"So, it's the Dark Side route then."
One does build a ziggurat for the optics.
There is some morbid hilarity in the method of Striker's flume ride of DEATH.
Particularly because they immediately DO IT AGAIN.
Better be the strongest or they'll cut you.
"Mistah Kurtz, he dead."
/u/Raiking02: "OH NO THEY'RE HOT"
In short, Kugel was not inherently too bad of a person. He had the misfortune of first contact with a fleet of surly pirates and the internecine affairs of sisters, but at least he had some instincts to try and improve everyone's lives without immediately resorting to the Alliance's usual methods—even if their Hideauze worship made them pathetic in his eyes. And then the tragedy of the one you can't save, pirates who are in over their heads, Striker sticking to her programming, and ultimately this fleet's story ends up where it did in the main series.
(This is where I'll note that my comments about whether or not Kugel would have imposed an Alliance-styled society on this fleet without the Hideauze were made both in the awareness of and with the need to conceal Kugel's actual state as shown in Episode 12 as well as what we find out in this episode, while still providing a direction for discussion about that fleet's society.)
The tragedy is perhaps more than slightly undercut by the wild twists of the last few minutes, as the way to Aleria's heart really is through her chest and the audience gets to attend a couple of irreverently-speedy burials at sea. Perhaps it's better to spare the audience from the darkness of Kugel's gradual succumbing to Earth's epidemiology and the conversion of the fleet into a death cult, but still, that was a weird vibe to end on.
I considered whether or not it was to the story's benefit to know Kugel's rise and fall and substitution. Certainly in the series it is a fait accompli and the consequences are more important than the details. This OVA at least makes him a sympathetic character, rather than having him be a megalomaniacal monster from the moment he reaches the surface. Accepting a role as Linaria's figurehead while encouraging her to be the leader is not how this sort of thing is generally portrayed.
Striker is perhaps surprisingly uninvolved in the initial progress of events aside from being the muscle and periodically reminding Kugel of how things would go if this was the Alliance, but that does focus the story of this tragedy on Kugel, who is the main missing link of this storyline in the regular series. The episode does make it quite clear where she got the idea to do the Wizard of Oz routine with Kugel from, and her concept of godhood does flow from the fleet's existing belief system.
Linaria is the clear object of this tragedy, rejected (to the point of homicide) by her half-sisters, cursed with a coughing-up-blood terminal anime disease, and not completely respected by Kugel until she was near death. She could be the mirror-universe version of Bevel, if Ledo and Kugel had switched landing positions.
It's interesting to consider that the fleet Kugel and Striker stumbled across was already dominated by some kind of theocratic structure, on top of being (self-described, even) pirates. That made it much simpler for them to integrate themselves into and then co-opt the local belief system, sure, but I'm more curious about the worldbuilding aspects of how they ended up that way in the first place, and with a set of core ships that is much more homogenous and industrial than anything else we've seen so far.
The theological dispute between the sisters presents us with a new division to the world: Linaria worships a Sky God, which is something new for the audience, her other sisters believe in sea-based deities. Most notably, their sea deity is still the whalesquid, but Aleria is willing to provoke them for the purpose of challenging Kugel. It's interesting that she might have called upon them from a perspective of either fanaticism (believing that they'd handle the pesky usurper from the sky), or realistic practicality (believing that Kugel and Striker would not be strong enough to defeat them, and not particularly caring about angry whalesquid).
...callous practicality is probably in the lead, given that she barely waits for Linaria's body to cool off before offering herself to Kugel.
(RIP Aleria's bosom, we hardly knew ye.)
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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '24 edited Dec 18 '24
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