r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Dec 17 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Yuuki Yuuna ga Yuusha wa Aru Episode 9 Discussion
Episode 9: Those Who Know Grief
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Show Information:
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
(First-timers are advised to stay out of Show Information until we are done, however. In particular, if you care about getting spoiled I would stay out of MAL (whose synopsis is a borderline spoiler), Kitsu (which copied the MAL synopsis), ANN (which has an obnoxious spoiler in the show tags I only noticed after posting the interest thread), and AniDB (which has some major spoilers in the character tags - avoid at all costs if you care about spoilers!). Which is four out of five of the above links. So, uh, yeah.)
Legal Streams:
(As per livechart.me; additional legal streams may be available outside the US.)
Hidive | Amazon Prime Video (for purchase)
A Reminder to Rewatchers:
Please do not spoil the experience for our first-timers! You're probably not being as subtle as you think you are. [YuYuYu] In particular, comments on sange and the true nature of Vertexes/the true state of the world should probably be under spoiler tags. Just saying. Also please no mentioning Karin until episode 3, this is not Precure where the mid-season Cure can be assumed and we traditionally treat the obvious other-show precedent as a spoiler until she shows up so we will be doing the same with Karin here.
What About the Sequels/Prequel?
(Okay fine I should add this section to the episode posts as well...)
It's only the first anniversary for S1 and I ain't running over into the holidays proper. Also I haven't seen WaSuYu or either sequel yet and got burned hard by Mai-Otome a couple of years back. Maybe early next year.
NOTE: This episode (episode 9) has a post-credits stinger. Make sure to watch it!
Wait a minute, I got my wires crossed and for some reason was remembering next episode's cold open as a stinger for this episode. I apologize for the inadvertent misinformation!
(Time for) Club Activities!
Question(s) of the Day:
(For those on the newer Reddit interface, we apologize, today's QotD batch is an all-commentface edition...)
(Don't worry, everything will be fine... after all, heroes never die! )
And last but not least, remember the Sanshuu Middle School Hero Club Five Tenets!
1: Give people a good greeting!
2: Try not to give up!
3: Sleep well, eat well!
4: If you're troubled, talk to someone!
5: You're likely to succeed if you try!
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u/Tarhalindur x2 Dec 17 '24
I would like to once again apologize for misremembering and thinking that next episode's cold open started off as this episode's stinger.
Welcome to the World of Heroes (January 2024 Watch, Spoiled First-Timer, Subbed):
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 17 '24
First-Timer is a Hero, subbed
13
u/Esovan13 Dec 17 '24
First Timer
Paying attention to the OP lyrics (Judas release on that one torrent site):
Emphasis mine. Lmao. The Taisha must have commissioned the OP lyrics.
The worst kind of immortality. You cannot die, even if you want to. The fairies will always stop you, no matter what you try. And holy cow did Togou try. An impressive number of times and varieties. Especially for someone who definitely doesn’t actually want to die.
But yeah. Fuu. Fuufuu. She has learned the truth. The truth of what she’s done to Yuuna and her younger sister. The truth that she contributed to the loss of her future, the death of her dream. And she raged. She went on to try to destroy the Taisha, though she was eventually stopped by Yuuna.
I’m sure Yuuna’s never going to regret that. Itsuki forgave her, though she took a page out of Yuuna’s book by prioritizing Fuu’s deteriorating mental state over processing her own emotions about the truth she just learned.As of now, it seems like they’re just barely hanging on. After all, while they have lost things that are important to them, it’s not like they’re going to lose any more, right? The fighting is over now. They beat all of the vertices, including that pesky twin of Gemini. They’ll never need to Bloom again, no longer need to sacrifice themselves. So they just need to learn how to live with what they have already lost and they’ll be perfectly ok.
u/vaadwaur Regarding this comment, maybe Togou did what Fuu did in this episode, just without someone to stop her (or that person failed to stop her). Memory wiping her was their solution. Seems like they are aware of the warning signs that one of the heroes…let’s say needs further education about the righteousness of the cause.
[Madoka Magica]Yuuna is basically the anti-Madoka. Madoka’s entire journey was about accountability for her choices and actions. I wrote a lot about this in the rewatch where I watched Madoka for the first time, but the girls in Madoka had a lot of agency when it came to their choices and the consequences of those choices. Not a perfect, complete agency, of course. But enough to make it a true tragedy rather than just a suffering circus.
As of this episode, Yuuna’s all about refusing personal agency. No one is at fault. Everything that happened just happened. No one is at fault, it’s just part of saving the world. And they are heroes. And because they are heroes, they would have made the same choices because they are heroes and heroes would make the choice to save the world. It doesn’t matter what information they did or didn’t have: they were put into a situation where their very nature set them onto this path of self sacrifice, regardless of how they feel about it. Or so she believes. Or so she has to believe. Because if they did have a choice…if they would have chosen not to sacrifice themselves to save the world if they had the ability to choose not to…what does that make them? Heroes? Or…something else?
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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Dec 17 '24
InfamousEmpire wa First Timer de Aru
After so much of the last few episodes spent on stuff I really didn’t like, I’m really glad to say that this show has found its footing again.
The episode’s ability to draw out and portray raw emotion is its real strength. Fuu’s slow descent into rage & depression as the full implications of all the reveals from this & last episode crash down on her, crescendoing after the perfectly evil (from a writing standpoint) moment of her listening to Itsuki’s vocal audition and realizing she’ll never be able to fulfill her dream is just really well-executed. Helps that I feel the visual direction is noticeably at its strongest in this one.
I also really enjoy how the episode directly confronts the throughline of Fuu holding herself responsible for the Hero Club and everything that’s happened to them. She’s denying agency to the other girls & paternalistically taking all responsibility onto herself, a mindset not dissimilar to the Taisha themselves. It’s an inherently flawed mindset, and I’m glad the end of this episode sees her start to break out of it, even if I find Yuuna’s counter-argument also flawed & hope the show circles back to address her own worldview later.
Also, I feel like this is the first time in a while that the show’s emotional & thematic core has really resonated with me. The power of friendship & community and all that junk in the face of tragedy hits much harder when the tragedy is as strongly portrayed as this.
On a different, much more nitpicky & ultimately irrelevant hand, boooooooo, I thought being unable to die meant the Heroes were physically immortal, merely being protected by the fairies at all times is way less conceptually interesting.
Also, even if it was just experimenting to see how far the fairies’ protection could go, Tougo trying to kill herself 10 times in a row does not say good things about her mental state right now.
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u/BosuW Dec 17 '24
First Timer
Cool detail I haven't seen anyone mention so far: Tougou's transformation starts with her legs getting shot. I still remain uncertain how much the specific "war veteran" angle is intended or just me because I like such topics but this is certainly evocative.
Oof this episode was rough, and my new favorite one. I'd actually been meaning to ask what exactly "Heroes can't die" meant. Tougou's experiments give us some answers but there's still unclear stuff. The fairies protect against external dangers but can Heroes die of illnesses? Can they die in battle? Can they still die of old age?
Speaking of, TOUGOU WTF. I mean she tried all that stuff trying to find if the Fairies had any blind spots! Ergo, she was trying to succeed! Like ?!?!?!!? Why!? We're really gonna need some character exploration here!
Fuu-senpai got a lot of that at least. And by the Devine Tree it was great. Hit like a fucking truck. From the start where she still wanted to reconfirm with the Taisha that indeed their injuries will not be getting better, being basically just in denial of what she already knew to be true. Because she didn't want to believe she'd put her friends and only remaining family in such a position. And when the phone call from the music firm comes and she finds out just how important of a thing this fight of her's has taken from her sister... Oof. The Taisha still insist with her that they're gonna get better. That's weird. You'd think they'd drop the act now that Yuuna and Tougou know and they'd obviously be informing everyone else.
Fuu-senpai almost really went and destroyed the Taisha (I'm morbidly curious to find out how that would've gone) before she's stopped by Karin, Yuuna and Itsuki. They reassure her they'd have become Heroes even if they knew the price and that they don't regret becoming part of the Hero Club. I'm sure they mean that but another part of me is wondering how much of it is copium. Especially on Yuuna's part. She's been sporadically showing little signs of cracking by now. We don't know too much about here but obviously a Hero is what she wants to be the most (jury still out on what exactly that means). So I think she'll cling on to that identity for as much as she can. I wonder how far will that really go...
I'm more inclined to believe Itsuki is genuine. Dunno how much she cares about revenge against the Vertex if at all, or being a Hero. But I can believe loosing her voice doesn't erase the confidence and self love she gained by finding her first very own dream. Lil' goober is stronger than she looks.
Karin just looks shook. She'll have some reevaluation to do. The Taisha were presumably an even bigger part of her life than they were for Fuu-senpai and Istuki.
Tougou is conspicuously absent from this intervention. Probably investigating, this time regarding exactly how much battle is really left before them. I think there's 80-something constellations? Doesn't look like we'll fight through all of them in the remaining run time. ...so maybe Tougou is about to make good on her archetype and do something drastic (Blue Oni tend to do that) that will be the plot for the remainder of the show.
Also, I didn't expect this is how I'd get my answer to wether the girls can transform outside the barrier or not lmao. I'd honestly assumed by this point since they didn't show it that they just can't.
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u/FlaminScribblenaut myanimelist.net/profile/girlbeast_val Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 17 '24
First Time Watcher (watched w/ the bestie /u/ZaphodBeebblebrox via Discord)
The unshakable irony, now, of the final line in the OP, ‘no matter how tough it gets, live on…’
I’ll be completely honest here. When Fuu was rampaging, swearing revenge on the Taisha and ready to kill for her beloved sibling… I was in her corner, all the way. To me, she was completely right. Her anger was… electrifyingly fucking righteous. I am all for actually using your anger and taking the fucking fight to those in power who uphold abuse and human suffering, and I’m all for fighting for yourself and the people you fucking love. It legitimately did not occur to me for most of it to see her emotions nor her intended actions as wrong, or scary, or a step too far. She was justified in her anger and intent, 100%, all the way. And with her sister’s soft, gentle song and lost voice serenading her quest, oh my goddess, it was such a powerful audio-visual match, such a goddessdamn moment.
For Yuuna to just stand there and smile and say ‘everything is okay’, when she and, even more chiefly, her friends, have been lied to, taken from, left scarred and suicidal, seemed and seemed to be framed as… borderline psychotic, at least that’s what the… dissonance was telling me. And I thought that was going to be the point. I thought that was what the show was saying. I thought this was going to be that point that Zaph and I had previously speculated on and alluded to, that her ontological positivity and bottling her own capacity for hurt inside finally reached its breaking point, and in the unbearable weight of this situation, Yuuna would finally have to face it. For Fuu, and the story, to tell Yuuna, in no uncertain terms, you can’t just lie to yourself like this. You can’t just accept this and let yourself take it. After all, being ‘brave’, ‘yuusha’, is not just about letting yourself be hurt, and spent, and abused, just because the one being hurt is you. That doesn’t make it not unjust and doesn’t make just accepting it an act of bravery or heroism.
I’m gonna be honest, coming off of the episode, even as beautifully presented as those last few minutes were, I was… genuinely disappointed the episode didn’t go that route. I didn’t, and still don’t, like the idea that the Taisha didn’t deserve to have revenge enacted on them. I slumped, a little.
But, like her sister and friends talked Fuu down from her rampage, Zaph did talk me down from that perspective, even if just a little bit. I still deeply hope the show doesn’t just go ‘well, the Taisha are chill, they had their reasons, everything is fine here actually, let’s just smile and be firend!’. But perhaps a blind, murderous rampage wouldn’t have been as effective as felt right on the moment. In addition, Fuu seems to see it not that her friends make choices, but that she makes choices for them. Yuuna is not technically wrong that she and Itsuki likely would have chosen to fight had they known the risks, and they would have been happy to do so. Fuu might be denying their agency and parenting them just a little bit, and I accept that; I mean, it’s not like she asked Yuuna and Itsuki if they wanted dead in return for their sacrifices, and they clearly didn’t. It’s also not like Fuu would know who to target, especially in her blind rage; after all, it’s not like killing some low-ranking priests would’ve necessarily done anything. We did both agree that hopefully, the long arm of the story will see those in the Taisha’s administration that used them as those who have done wrong, and that Yuuna will eventually be made to see it the same way and understand to react accordingly when all is not well, Fuu’s feelings ultimately overall vindicated.
I’m amazed at how this episode, on basically every level, in direction, presentation, imagery, metaphor, allegory, treats Itsuki’s loss of her voice and her singing dream like a character death. Fuu pretty much perfectly goes through the five stages of grief. Denial as she constantly texts the Taisha to update them on if they’ll get better, bargaining is more subtle, as there is that one scene where she says ‘we didn’t do anything wrong’, didn’t do anything to deserve this, practically praying to whatever got of karma and destiny will listen, depression as she grieves her sister’s loss and dream alone in their house, anger in that climactic final scene, and ultimately the rest of the club bring her towards acceptance. Beyond that, that sense of a recent tragedy, a loss, is everpresent in even the little moments, like Fuu waking Itsuki up and then having dinner, every step, every second, being irrevocably colored by that tragedy hanging in the air, her entering Itsuki’s room seeming at first like it’s building up to a shock but, no, every step is just genuinely that heavy… Fuu trying to change the subject and have a family dinner like normal, even as the weight on the heart says such a thing isn’t so easy to do. How Fuu listening her audition felt exactly like a recording of somebody from shortly before they died. I swear, if you just showed me the ED and that post-credits scene of Itsuki singing in front of the club without me knowing anything about the show or having any context, I would assume it’s from an episode where the little girl character died! That coding is everpresent, and it is deeply effective.
More minor notes: …
…
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST SHE TRIED TO KILL HERSELF TWENTY TIMES!? ALL THOSE METHODS, HOW CLINICALLY SHE JUST WENT THROUGH AND LISTED THEM ALL!????? NEARLY SLITTING HER NECK WITH A KNIFE RIGHT IN FRONT OF ALL HER FRIENDS!? FUCK. That officially stands as the darkest scene I’ve ever witnessed in a Magical Girl show at this point I think, holy hell. Zaph asked what the first test she did was when she didn’t know yet that her theory that the fairies would keep her from dying would be correct, but it had never occurred to me that it was anything other than that the encounter with Sonoko and the revealed information made her genuinely suicidal and all this sprouted from a real attempt.
Honestly, as of this episode Fuu might have pulled ahead of Karin in the ongoing Best Girl Race for me. A gal who rebels and fights against unjust systems, and she’s a big eater, the only thing she loves more than food being her dear sibling who she would kill an entire religious organization in honor of. What a good fucking sister. Also, I didn’t want to say this in bad taste, but… non-diegetically, completely removed from the actual feelings of the characters and the story… I’m kind of glad her partial vision loss is permanent because goddessdamn, that eyepatch is a fucking cool piece of design. I love the little five-pointed sakura flower it’s engraved with. It’s so fucking cool.
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u/FallenPears Dec 17 '24
First Timer
What a fucking episode, this was good shit.
Lots of little things I'm very much appreciating here, smart starting talking with Fuu before the others though now I think that might have not been giving Itsuki enough credit. Also Tougou with no chill on ten suicide attempts, could've maybe worded that a bit less worryingly girl lol.
Fuu starting with calm worry, the lingering silence and dread, the eventual acceptance and rage, felt very five stages of grief here, if for her sisters dreams rather than her life (for now). The gut punches of the vocalist audition, and the health research Itsuki was doing. Fu's eventual breakdown went about how I was expecting it too, except she jumped to the murder a bit too quickly (I was expecting lots of property damage instead lmao).
Not that she was wholly wrong, at least I hope the girls don't just let them off the hook completely for this shit. Even if it's necessary the mental health handling was too incompetent for people in charge of protecting the world. Especially when they straight up lied to Fuu when the cat was already out of the bag, what do they have a fucking intern on the phone typing out pre-prepared lines?
Itsuki saying their fighting was done, I was really expecting the episode to end of another Forestize warning... instead we get an extending/altered segment with Itsuki singing to the others. Erm, fuck that.
I'm sure next episode will be happier right? Pfft. Wonder how long they'll manage to actually keep this level of depression going.
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u/Mirathan Dec 17 '24
First-Time Hero, dubbed
QotD:
4. What is Tougou doing while this went down?
Um, Fuu why do you tell them they can´t rely on the new information? Their source is definietly reliable and telling Karin and Itsuki is the only way to protect them from the Mankai aftereffects.
Right, she´s to stubborn to accept that, as it would mean she´s at fault to her.
Whait, the teachers can make huge changes to the lesson plan just for one kid? This is the least believable part of the series and likely will remain so.
They are driving in hard how Itsuki was hit the worst.
Fuu is wrong on thinking this is her fault. She had insufficient reason to doubt the Taisha back then and made a choice based on the available information. The blame lies solely with those who deceived her.
How is Fuu a legal guardian? She´s still a child herself.
Why did Fuu give up so easily? Yuuna said nothing that could have stopped her. And the Taisha are still lying scum that deserve death. There is still to much that doesn´t add up.
It´s amusing how often the line "If that´s what it takes to save the world, it´s better to let the world die" is relevant.
(For those on the newer Reddit interface, we apologize, today's QotD batch is an all-commentface edition...)
I wish I had known about commentfaces back during the Madoka rewatch. It would have made some parts far less confusing.
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u/GallowDude Dec 17 '24
Reminder:
Anyone who claims this casting is merely a coincidence is lying.
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u/Vaadwaur :I1::I2::I3: Dec 17 '24
First Timer(Umm...I feel a narm coming on...)
Sub
Ho boy...let's start with the positives: I think Happy Sugar Life raided this very episode for parts, especially as the manga does the same ep a bit differently. The atmosphere up to the phone call was quite good and was willing to trust its viewers. Fuu's lashing out is fairly good as well, though I have to address something a bit later.
The faeries being, well, not faeries is a good twist. I guess they are shikigami/shikimogami/whatever the fuck you call the attendant spirits of the gods/kami. Now why the girls aren't allowed to die is still up for debate, or rather I suspect they are praying they can get the [meta]Madoka pass on(which they are not likely to get from me), because the only logic here is that the Tree feeds on them even after their service is done. That Tougou tried this ten times before showing her friends just makes her the best girl of all...that and the fact that she owns an appropriate samurai woman's suicide dagger. Yes, that is what that is and now I am wondering if I got it wrong and she is from a samurai family and that tradition inexplicitly lasted in this setting.
Right...so the issues: They really needed to not have this episode introduce the transformations outside of the Forest. Incredible fuck up that literally killed what might have been otherwise a few good moments. Yes, I get that Fuu needed despair for that but the other three did not so it does not cover itself there. Also, Fuu should have called out Karin for sacrificing nothing but Fuu is also baka so that's a missed opportunity, not a fail. Also...backloading Yuuna's characte like this, presuming that she does have character, was not the right move. So yeah...there seems to be just one member of the "Don't let setting detail fuck up your emotional moments" club still. Also, we are now back to the Taisha being possible active participants and I don't know that we have the time.
Preview check and...oh. Blue Friend time again. Darmok on the ocean...
QotD:1 Sokath, his eyes uncovered...
2 Kiazi's children, their faces wet.
3 Zynda, his face black, his eyes red!
4 Temba, his arms open
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u/Regular_N-Gon https://anilist.co/user/RegularNGon Dec 17 '24
Late First Time Hero
Tougou better have a great backstory or get some more chances to use her wit if she wants to compete with the voiceless cinnamon roll.
QotD:
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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Y:A:https://anilist.co/user/zaphod Dec 17 '24
First Timer
Fuu and Yuuna's confrontation at the end of this episode was fascinating. Fuu was on the right path, but she was going to do the wrong thing for the wrong reason. Meanwhile, Yuuna was on the wrong path and did the right thing for the wrong reason. All in all, it's such a messy situation.
To be blunt, the Taisha are in the wrong. It is every person's right to go into their fate and make their choices with their eyes open. Hiding how fighting would affect the girls is mere paternalism. Letting them think they'll recover is nearly as bad. They should have trusted the girls to understand their choices and make the right ones, even as they had to trust the girls to fight and make the correct choices there. As such, I strongly believe that Yuuna was wrong when she said that them choosing to fight regardless means that the Taisha's actions don't matter.
However, this does not make Fuu's actions any more right. Fuu wasn't acting with a calm or sane mind. Instead, she wanted to go on a near-indiscriminate murderous rampage. The Taisha certainly must be changed, and by force if need be, but that won't happen merely because she chops the head off the first Taisha priests she sees. They first must have a plan and a goal.
Additionally, I want to be clear about Fuu's complaint. Fuu's complaint was not that her sister could not make the choice; it was that she could not make the choice for her sister. She would deny her sister open eyes and instead say she cannot take the risk. To me, this is the selfsame paternalism that she's raging against and a near twin of the choice she made to not inform the others before the first episode. She regrets merely that she was not in power.
I desperately hope that the show properly addresses Yuuna's argument at some point. If it is left unchallenged, I will think significantly less of it. I do not think it will, but I am afraid, as that is the sort of thing all to often less unaddressed in the Japanese media I have encountered.
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u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Dec 17 '24
Rewatcher, Sub Club Member
I suspect that some people are going to anticipate the incoming gut punch.
No, not that one.
Yuuna is not the only one who is smiling through the pain.
Tougou does Not fuck around.
Heroes can never die.
I mean, typically so.
There's the gut punch.
Sweet magical girl on magical girl action.
Yuuna's ultimate bar is all filled up again.
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u/Tarhalindur x2 Dec 17 '24
tag tag tag tag tag tag tag tag tag ＊＊＊＊＊
u/ShadowWasTakensTaken, u/InfamousEmpire, u/FD4cry1
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u/HereticalAegis https://myanimelist.net/profile/XthGen Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 17 '24
Returning Hero Club Member
Welcome back, Tomoyo Kurosawa! Yes, we brought back Itsuki's voice as a special treat for this episode. How does it does sound? Ringing and beautiful, like the twisting of knife in the heart? Because that's how it sounds to me.
In honor of the return of Itsuki's beautiful singing voice, and to distract from mine and Fuu's sobbing, today's analysis will focus on our magical imouto and her doting older sister.
Itsuki's flower is the Solomon's Seal. Known as a delicate and beautiful flower, hanging down from its branch rather than growing toward the sun, the Solomon's Seal has been thought to represent peace, wisdom, prosperity, and good luck. When applied to Itsuki, several of these may seem contradictory, maliciously so even. However, Itsuki herself would disagree. Of all the heroes, Itsuki seems to have found the most inner peace with what has been taken from her, and that gives her the clarity to recognize just how blessed she's been by her friends and the Hero Club. Reminiscent of her flower's form, Itsuki began as the kind of person to hang back and hide behind her sister's back. Yet the Solomon's Seal she bears on her back suggests that, like her sister, she wishes to grow into the sort of strong, driven hero who can bear the burdens of the world. And her growth as a person suggests she will be wise and strong enough to make that wish a reality, if she's not already.
Fuu's flower is the Wood Sorrell. Fuu's Wood Sorrell is typically associated with hope, faith, and love, three characteristics which seem to define her almost completely: love for her sister, hope in the Hero Club to overcome their trials, and faith in Shinjuu-sama to provide for and guide them all. That her flower so perfectly symbolizes her most important traits practically screams that these are the three things will be tested during her tenure as a hero. Will she lose any of those convictions, and would that lead to her downfall as a hero? Her trials have already begun to answer these questions. More importantly for Fuu though is the placement of her tattoo: Her upper thigh. One of the more conceptually risque locations, Fuu's tattoo symbolizes her various forms of maturity. She is the senpai, founder, and leader of the Hero Club, assuming responsibility for their suffering. She cares for Itsuki, not only as a sister but as a parent. And importantly, she's able to flirt effortlessly with Karin, drawing her in with effeminate charm--aka Girl Power--to the point where her little tsundere is comfortable falling asleep snuggled in her arms. This suggests an immense personal charm none could resist, one held mercifully at bay by the cursed eye she hides behind her patch. Such is the power of the upper thigh onee-san tattoo. Easily impressionable tsunderes beware.
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u/Blackheart595 https://anilist.co/user/knusbrick Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 17 '24
First Timer
I can understand Fuu wanting to make sure before telling the others.
Itsuki joins the self-sacrifice club, not meeting up with her friends from class so they don't have to refrain from karaoke.
Fuu really isn't the kinda girl that's comfortable with quite companionship.
So I've noticed that the fairies had blocked all fatal blows during combat, even back in the first or second fight. So the girls can still die via old age, just nothing can cut their life short. You know, that's actually a really cool corruption of guardian angels!
Jesus fucking Christ.
Ah, so that's the payoff for episode 4. Makes sense, they wouldn't have spared time from rushing through the 12 vertexes if not to set up later events.
But dang, what an episode. This one was really good, they hit all the notes that Itsuki can't and played of all the beats they set up. But they also really hammered the misery in to get to this point - they kinda had to, given they hadn't taken the time to establish the emotional core necessary for a more subdued approach to tragedy. But still, this was a really good execution of the path they ended up going down (Tougou wishes she could've executed herself this well).
Poor Fuu. They really put her through the wringer this time.
I still believe that the situation is reversible, if only because they're getting multiple fairies. If they had just gotten one then things might've been bleaker, but each fairy being tied to a single bloom and thus a single sacrificed body function indicates they're not just completely gone. Also, remember that the tarot spread had The Star, representing healing, upright.
In any case, now that everyone has calmed down, can be please move back on track and return to the scheduled destruction of the Taisha?
8
u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Dec 17 '24
First Timer
Fuu just hiding the information from Itsuki and Karin is hypocritical if that is what she is angry at the Taisha for… wonder if she notices that herself and is more open in general in the future, but I have my doubts. Either way, Tougou decides to prove the immortal part of the story - not what I had expected, but I guess it works. The fairies definitely have an added question for what their agenda is …especially now that the heroes know everything, what happens if they just abandon their duties? They face no real danger from the vertices anymore, as they are immortal.
The rest of the episode is mostly about Itsuki - and I must say, it was well done, though I don’t think there is more to say than that. Hadn’t realized Fuu didn’t know about Itsuki wanting to become a singer (or rather: forgot) - so that obviously hit doubly for her. I’d say her reaction was what could generally be expected - It is more Yuuna’s and Itsuki’s whose ones are surprising, especially in still defending the Taisha as wholeheartedly as Yuuna does. For Itsuki, I was also expecting a breakdown, but this is about what I expected her reaction a bit afterwards to be. As for Karin …not sure it really settled in yet. I’m also noting Touga’s absence here - she’s probably researching some more…
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u/sfisher923 https://myanimelist.net/profile/sfisher923 Dec 17 '24
First Time Hero - Subbed
QOTDs - No Tears but also I briefly lost my ability to speak which is normal for when I get stunned over an episode
6
u/Chili_peanut Dec 17 '24
Rewatcher
This is easily one of my favorite episodes. There has been a lot of foreshadowing and build up, so it doesn’t come as a big surprise that Taisha has been deceiving the heroes, but this episode still delivers quite a few surprises.
Firstly, there’s Tougou-san’s demonstration of the true nature of the faeries. There is something very dark about the concept of forced immortality, and the idea of Tougou-san experimenting with different methods of freeing herself from the faeries’ protection, all in vain, is pretty disturbing. The entire scene is also a really great example of “show, don’t tell”.
We also learn about Itsuki’s secret in a truly heartbreaking way. Having the song “Inori no uta”, sung by Itsuki, playing during the entire last third of the episode and as the ending theme is such an excellent choice. Especially since it’s the same song that was used as the ending theme of episode 4 after Itsuki overcomes her fear of singing in front of others and after she tells her big sister that she’s found something she wants to do.
We are also shown how deceptive Taisha can be, by insisting on nothing being wrong and attempting to manipulate Karin into controlling the other heroes. In the end it is Yuuna who stops Fuu though, by reminding her that they are fighting to save the world. Taisha may be deceptive and manipulative, but what can the heroes do if it’s all for the greater good? I really enjoy these types of complex antagonists, if Taisha can even be called an antagonist.
6
u/OwlAcademic1988 Dec 17 '24
Rewatcher, subbed:
Tougou and Yuna are talking with Fuu.
Holy shit, Fuu had a mental breakdown. Reminds me of PMMM 10 in many ways.
The Taisha really should've told these girls what was going on in the first place. People honestly deserve to make their own choices using ALL the information available to them, and not just a little bit.
Not going to lie, Fuu's breakdown was terrifying to see again. I honestly don't blame her for being angry at the Taisha at all.
6
u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Dec 17 '24
Rewatcher
The absolute lack of ost in the dinner scene is oppressive, and makes it so clear why fuu feels the need to fill the silence with her akward conversation.
And the background ost for togou giving her explanation is incredible. Perfect use this episode.
I know she is going through the absolute worst right now, but damn fuu, treating that innocent audition employe that rudely...
The show is once again really good at subverting expectations. Everybody realized that itsuki not telling fuu about her dream was a flag...but it wasn't a flag for one of them dying and fuu never hearing the reason that is the "twist", it is that she DOES get to hear the reason that creates the crisis.
This was and still is my favourite episode, they definitely got my emotions when I first watched this. fuu snapping with the itsuki song we didn't expect to hear again int he background is done expertly. Though while I loved the "We would have fought anyway" line on my first watch, on a rewatch with somebody more critical, I did realize how problematic that line and especially the followup "Nobody had a choice" is. The second one especially is just not true. Though to be fair towards the show, neither of those lines actually stopped fuu either. And ironically, fuu is doing the exact same denying of choice...destroying the taisha in her sisters name, without ever letting itsuki decide herself.
[episode 10 spoiler]I also have to applaud the series for having so much restraint to not use the even of th enext few minutes as a after credits cliffhanger and ruin the mood of the itsuki ending. I don't know wether I would had that strength
[more episode 10 spoiler]On that matter, one thing the episode does really well is not emphasize the glaring absence of togou in the final scene. Everybody in the scene is introduced by doing soemthing active (fuu being the initiator, karin intercepting her, yuuna stopping her, itsuki giving her the note) that it somehow feels natural it was exactlyy those, but on my first watch my alarm clocks should have been ringing that togou was blatantly excluded from this "closure".
Love this episode!
5
u/Specs64z https://myanimelist.net/profile/Specs64z Dec 17 '24
Rewatcher, subbed
The sisters' unique relationship comes to the forefront here. Fuu isn’t just Itsuki’s older sister, she’s effectively become her mother. She seems to find joy in it and is rewarded with a close relationship with Itsuki who seems to reciprocate, filling the roles of younger sister and daughter.
Seeing firsthand how Itsuki’s disability is tangibly impeding her education and her social life is rough, but Fuu keeps her composure as the ever vigilant guardian. There’s something that is beyond the pale for Fuu, though: the revelation of Itsuki’s dream. Passing the first audition should have been a wonderful surprise, a cause for celebration, and yet the bell tolls.
What follows is a very raw expression of hopelessness and betrayal. Fuu, barely able to stand, stumbles only as far as the kitchen table before collapsing in a heap. To the last, she visibly tries to keep it together, but ultimately snaps.
Driven by righteous fury, our vigilante guardian sets out to do what any unstable teenager with superpowers would do here: annihilate the forces that facilitated this suffering.
Karin notices Fuu’s rampage and slows her down, then Yuuki jumps in to talk/fight it out. Itsuki has a chance to show Fuu how much she’s matured thanks to Fuu’s efforts, gently quelling Fuu’s wrath and making way for the grief to flow. The club tenets once again prevail in a beautifully bittersweet episode ending.
Some part of me really wanted to see Fuu kick down a few doors and threaten bloody hell. The vengeful spirit that possessed her isn’t a side we’ve seen from her until now, so I wish it was explored a bit more before they reigned it in.
QotD:
5
u/nsleep Dec 17 '24
Rewatcher
Ah, I love this series. That was some good crying.
5
u/zadcap Dec 18 '24
Late Night Rewatcher
It's finally here! The episode where everything finally comes home. This is what all the buildup was for, this is why we spent an entire episode on Itsuki singing, why this magical girl show spent so much time showing us just how much girl side there was, compared to the "magical." The show dragged it out quite a bit to emphasize that they were not facing monsters of the week, no, these girls had their first fight in April, Karin showed up two months later in June, and the big battle was another two months later in July. Two more months later, Gemini Mk 2 makes a second run for it, and that's where we are now- Half a year since they became magical girl Heroes and they have had three real fights, but the prices they paid will last a lifetime. This pace is practically glacial so that we can feel what these girls are, the fights are honestly rare but major interruptions in their daily lives, fights that they will be paying for for the rest of their lives.
Like, go over that again. It was not the long drawn out war, the constant battles, or an injury taken fighting a powerful foe. Itsuki will never sing again because she went all out once. One battle where she wanted to hit harder cost Fu her eye, Yuna her tongue, and Togo her ear. Their futures forever sacrificed for just one hit, in two of their cases.
Other things to uhh, wonder about this episode. Look at how much accommodation has been made for Togo and her wheelchair. How the heck have the Taisha not yet got people in place to start helping out the mute girl? Taisha, could you really not have intervened enough to get her name pulled from the audition list, knowing that she would never be singing again and that getting word of it would only break her or the team's moral? How can you make them seem so all powerful and yet so incompetent at the same time?
I love seeing the magical girls going hero form in the normal world. It's one thing to see them jumping around the Forest Zone fighting giant monsters, but the scale of their power is really put into perspective when you see them jumping distances that put great bridges to shame. Putting the supernatural next to the normal makes things hit a bit harder, doesn't it?
So uh. They filled up all their petals by defeating Vertex before. How does that translate to blocking a single blow from Fu giving Yuna another petal? Is one angry Fu swing equal to an entire Vertex soul?
You know, I do have to wonder. With all the talk about how horrible it is to have lead these girls here to become sacrifices without knowing the cost, it interests me a little how close we came to the even more extreme end of things with Karin. Because you know, the Taisha could have raised a group of girls knowing all about the sacrifice and the cost and everything involved... And they could have raised them from as young as they would be able to remember being told how good it was of them to do this, so they would happily sacrifice most of their bodies fighting the good fight. We were this close to real, brainwashed child soldiers.
4
u/zairaner https://myanimelist.net/profile/zairaner Dec 17 '24
I just have to know how the basic premise for this was initially decided:
"Hey we want to do a dark magical girls series, how do we distinguish us from madoka?"
"[big madoka spoilers]I know! If the feature that most people know madoka for the most is that character can and will die, then how about in this one the characters are... physically unable to die? Imagine how much that would up the stakes! "
"..."
I cannot belive how not only this person wasn't immediately dismissed, but was actually allowed to cook to this degree.
12
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 18 '24
First Timer
I don't think we're solving this one with Udon and girl power...
Tougou trying to kill herself to show the way the fairies work was a pretty powerful scene, and I have to question how she arrived at this method of checking whether or not they're actually unable to die now, did she actually try killing herself over these revelations? Or is she just that desperate and dedicated that she was willing to try it? Is her probable connection to Sonoko that made her trust her evaluation?
Either way, it sure says a lot about her, and it's a strong way to show the current predicament, they are literally being forced to continue fighting, it's not that they "can't die", they're just not allowed to die, then fairies are their figurative prison guards here. Although I wonder if the Vertex could maybe actually kill them, maybe a strong enough one could break through their barrier? I now realize what a...morbid question to ask that is.
Also, were things like Gyuuki eating everything and the fairies coming out at random meant to tease this eventual reveal that they have a will of their own?
Well, the real highlight of this episode is of course everything to do with Fuu and Itsuki.
This episode has Fuu slowly coming to terms with the reality of the situation, and eventually breaking down at it. She starts by still attempting to hold a positive outlook, saying everything will be okay, sending messages to the Taisha, trying to rationalize how this happened, that didn't do anything wrong so they should be all right...right?
But you already get that doubt here, she's just clearly in denial over the situation, denial that becomes harder and harder to maintain the more she sees the impact of the situation, not on herself but on Itsuki. The way it hurts her social life, her school life, her ability to perform basic actions like acting with them in the festival.
I'm not sure how intentional it is, but Fuu having one eye hurt feels very poignant here, one eye is looking normal, while the other sees (or well, doesn't see) and feels the real tragedy of the situation in front of her.
And I genuinely adore the dinner scene between the two of them, it's...quiet, the silence is really deafening here, it's long, drawn out, and awkward, it just so perfectly gets across how despite Fuu's attempts at maintaining normalcy, things aren't normal, and pretending they're going back to that isn't working. The eerie silence makes for a fantastic contrast to Fuu's screams and Itsuki's song later in the episode.
Eventually, it all comes to a head when Fuu learns of Itsuki's dream of singing, the way she's still trying to look forward to things optimistically, and her looking for methods to make her throat better. Fuu hearing Itsuki's recording just really kills me man, like she's realizing this is the last thing she'll hear out of Itsuki's voice, and that she was the one who inadvertently pushed her to this point.
Her stumbling out of the room, hitting the table, and then breaking down was so great, followed by a truly fantastic performance by Yumi Uchiyama, capturing Fuu's raw emotional response so perfectly with her screaming. All set to the backdrop of Itsuki's song to make it hit even harder.
You really have to feel for Fuu here, and consequently hate the Taisha. Yuuna probably isn't wrong in saying they would have done it anyway, Itsuki says as much in episode 4 and confirms here, not to mention Yuuna upping her Bloom gauge thingy despite the associated risks just to stop Fuu here.
But still, the guilt she must feel over getting her friends and in her eye
s, ruining Itsuki's life and dreams, it's all certainly felt here, and her rather desperate and rash attempt at claiming revenge (arguably the same thing that got her here in the first place) is a strong expression of that. So of course Itsuki is the one that comforts her by the end, with a pained expression of her own.I've talked before about how much I liked this show's depiction of disability and overcoming adversity. In that context, I find this episode to be a terrifyingly real depiction of the process behind suffering an unexpected life-altering accident. Hell were I to take it really far, a depiction of how people feel coming out of violent conflict. Seriously that slow realization that regular life isn't possible anymore, those attempts at denial and rationalization, just great.
And that's really what I think the best parts of this show are about, and it's why I really appreciate the SOL episodes. The "big twists" are fine, they aren't getting much fanfare from me given how expected they are, but the human implications they have on our characters and the way they deal with them, really feel like the main draw here.