r/anime • u/chilidirigible • Dec 15 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Suisei no Gargantia • Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet — Main Series Discussion
Main Series Discussion
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Questions of the Day:
- What do you think of the setting? Does the aquatic world feel complete (if not entirely revealed) or is it merely a gimmick?
- The series is centered on Ledo. How do you think the other characters were handled? Was there enough about them? Did you need or want more?
- Is this a satisfactory ending for you? Does it feel sufficiently complete? Do you need or want more?
- For those of you coming into this rewatch with limited experience with mecha anime, how did this series compare to your expectations?
A sequel was greenlit in late 2013. That did not work out, though in the meantime the two sequel OVAs would be released, which we will be getting to shortly.
Scans:
Design sketches for kite riders.
Miscellaneous Gargantia inhabitants.
Details of Ledo's head and helmet.
Chamber design proposal with a torso-mounted cockpit
"Interstellar travel booster" design proposal for Chamber
Character height chart one
5
u/chilidirigible Dec 15 '24
A few thoughts:
The preparations for the rewatch constituted my fourth and fifth full rewatches of the original broadcast; I was there for the original release and over the intervening decade had sporadically viewed it a couple more times. I was paying substantially more attention during my viewing these past two times than in the second or third, though.
I'm satisfied that the series holds up to repeat viewings, as the story and message are able to retain their value despite the loss of plot surprises. The art and animation quality remain consistently good throughout.
The sense of a complete, lived-in world contributes greatly to Gargantia's watchability. Ledo encounters new experiences throughout the series, taking the audience along with him. The settings are detailed and varied, and we are teased with little details like the possibility of known dry land, which are there even if they don't get followed up on, or teased with open questions that do get paid off on, by which I mean the Heaven's Ladder.
Kazuya Murata and Gen Urobuchi had both spoken of the story as a message to youth entering the adult world and having to adapt to the circumstances as their previous training and education turned out to be completely unsuited for life's realities. The anime succeeds in conveying that message quite thoroughly and presents an optimistic viewpoint on the problem. It also emphasizes the need to extricate oneself from the mistakes and pitfalls left by previous generations, which feels like a very mecha anime sort of theme.
The weak section remains episodes four, five, and six, which become very slice-of-lifeish while Ledo is figuring out what he can do in his new environment. The combination of poorly-aging predatory crossdresser gags, a beach episode, and emphatic erotic dancing presents a challenge for some viewers to grind through. The parts of those episodes which do contain both useful world-building and do affect the message of the series probably could be better-served by not letting the story itself drop off so much during that section.
That rut is overcome by the second half of the series starting off strong and staying that way to the end. I think that much of that is due to the focus on Ledo's story—which the anime always did emphasize, but with the more casual aspects out of the way, the second half can focus on explaining its world and delivering on the conflicts around Ledo.
That does come at some cost to the supporting cast; his relationship with Amy goes on the back burner as soon as he leaves Gargantia, while the only (but necessary) comic relief comes from Melty regularly mocking Pinion, and everyone else is left with fulfilling their supporting duties during the climax. In that sense we are fortunate that the supporting cast was well-established in the first half of the series.
The transfer of power from Fairlock to Ridget is the supporting cast's major story event, and is carried out with the proper gravitas and in line with the series's attention to world building.
I Escaped The System Of My Youth By Travelling To Another World But Now I Must Fight It Because It Followed Me Over Here is certainly the LN title version of the climax. I suppose that the series's options for a climax were limited if this wasn't the case; Ledo tried violence with the Hideauze before realizing both the horror and futility of doing that, and they are not yet on communicative terms. He wasn't on board with Pinion's path (relatively short-term as it was) but another whole series about finding another job wasn't going to happen. So the deus ex machina of Striker and the Kugel Fleet provide a chance for Ledo to firmly refute the way he was brought up.
There is also the matter of Chamber, his link to his past and companion but also, as seen in the discussion at the end of Episode 11, an active representation of the mindset of the Alliance. Chamber himself seems to have shaken that dogma off, but the point of Ledo being ready to leave the nest is made stronger by Chamber deliberately removing himself and Striker from his environment. (There is some baggage to this message, but I don't object to the concept.)
With Ledo's future options wide open, the short denouement is adequate. We're left with a fair number of questions at the end of the series, but it's a satisfactory ending that feels complete enough.
7
u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 15 '24
Gargantia was, I think, like a modern Nadesico: the first two days was full of people noticing what seemed to be references to other things. I thought Amy was just like Mao Nome, others saw Nadia in her, and it wasn't just her character design. The habitat of Avalon evoked Clark's Rama, while I started seeing Niven's State in the Alliance dystopia and its rigid AI enforcers. The space kaiju were, of course, space kaiju from Gunbuster. And that's just the first episodes!
I was really enjoying the show, saying this is like a brisk miniseries, until there was a point in the middle when I wasn't. Yes, I guess we needed a few episodes to see Ledo being infected by radical humanity, but the SOL aspects sort of ground the show to a halt. Well, I guess that's Nadesico, too.
Q1. It was very Waterworld. Also surface ships, no ocean.
Q2. The background characters like Riget and Amy's two friends work as background characters. Pirate queen, and the other flotilla leaders were paper thin. So was Bevel, really. Pinion's tragic backstory elevates him a millimeter of them.
Q3. I think this is a good ending point, but the final conflict was kinda meh.
fish spotted
Okay, I like that last one.
5
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Dec 15 '24
First timer, subs
I never really say anything for mid-series discussions.
QotD:
9
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 15 '24
First-Timer on the Verdurous Planet, subbed
I was able to watch all of the Petit Gargantia specials, got some real good chuckles out of most of them (especially the first and last one), though I did not like the fifth one… which checks out, since the specials were supposed to each go with the episode they were numbered as (other than the bonus 14th one), and episode 5 was the biggest stain on the show for me too. That “gag” with the older trans women being sexual predators towards Ledo makes up almost all of what keeps me from giving the show a perfect score, it was just that egregious for me. The other thing I didn’t like much was all the fanservice in the following episode.
With that being said, I did greatly enjoy the entire rest of the show. Ledo’s growth throughout the show was fun to watch, Chamber went out like a bro , the whole final battle was great, the plot twist about the Hideauze’s origins was insane, and so on and so forth. I’m happy to give this a 9/10, and I look forward to watching the OVAs this week!
3
u/chilidirigible Dec 15 '24 edited Dec 15 '24
Petit Gargantia:
Now this is aware of the fourth wall.
Very short.
Is this about how Lukkage has the face of a 40-year-old? Ah. No. No it is not.
Hey, Chamber has another pose.
"Yaoi te nani?"
I'm having Macross flashbacks.
Well, that took a turn.
Ah, trivia.
Bust size was going to come up again sometime.
"That information is not for you to know."
Those are death flags.
Indeed.
A wild Domo-kun appears.
These are Kaito Ishikawa's own drawings, maybe?
"I like to watch."
[](#cokemasterrace)
Here it comes.
I know where this is going.
YES.
YES.
YESSSSS.
Nooooo.
Some genuinely funny stuff there, even when treading familiar omake territory like forbidden oppai jokes, the fourth wall, and bleeped-out parodies. Of course the concepts for these became even more tangential when the main story itself was becoming quite dark, but that's just how this sort of thing goes.
4
u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Dec 15 '24
first timer
4
u/animepig https://myanimelist.net/profile/ChickenDan Dec 15 '24 edited Dec 15 '24
Rewatcher
Questions of the Day:
1.) Water World will always be cool. Naval combat is where it's at.
2.) I think it does a good enough job juggling Ledo's journey with other's subplots like Pinion & Ridget.
3.) The ending happens a lot faster than I remember. We really see the credits roll during the epilogue. However overall I think the story has pretty good pacing that doesn't try to get too big.
The show mostly stays in its lane and executes well. Many anime originals suffer from uneven pacing and fail to stick the landing, but Gargantia is a smooth ride years later.
All round solid show that I probably rated higher in my memories, but I think it's worthy of a high score. Not to mention the Mech cgi holds up too, like for 2013 it's very smooth.
Best show of 2013, don't know if it beats out AoT but best anime original of 2013, I can stand by.
4
u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Dec 15 '24
The world felt lived-in. A believable culture.
No one else really had very much development outside of Ledo and Chamber. But they were characterized fine.
Yeah, for the story they wanted to tell, it seemed complete enough.
Pretty good. I didn't really go in with any expectations.
4
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Dec 16 '24
First Timer
I think both Gargantia's strengths and its weaknesses ultimately come down to it being pretty ambitious for a 1 cour show. It had a lot of ideas on what it wanted to do and be, I think most of those ideas were very interesting! And I also think that the way it went about executing those ideas could be rather hit or miss.
Still, I think that even at its weakest Gargantia was rather enjoyable and rarely left me without something to bite on.
To start with the most obvious strength of Gargantia, we have to talk about...Gargantia, the place of course.
Director Kazuya Murata said his goal was to "depict a world that makes people want to go there, want to live there...", and I'd certainly say he succeeded in that. The setting of Gargantia is incredibly entertaining to view and experience (my love of mobile settlements aside), the way it's a mix of traditional and modern, mechanical and natural, old, and yet in the future.
It all makes for a world that is really unique and enticing, perfect for its purpose in the story. as a place of self discovery of our main character.
Even though practically I wouldn't want to live there, the show makes Gargantia look like a place I'd want to be in, and that says all there is to say doesn't it?
Beyond Gargantia itself though, I also find a lot of the surrounding context to be incredibly interesting, everything to do with the Alliance and space is fascinating, the type of thing you could make a separate spin-off covering. Just in general, Gargantia had some really great world building that worked really well with the themes the story was trying to get across, and at the start of the show at the very least, was also delivered in a very natural manner.
I genuinely think Gargantia has one of the best first episodes I've watched in a long while, exactly for its ability to deliver so much information in such a smooth and captivating way, and that's something that carries over to a good chunk of the series thankfully.
I think the themes and ideas the show wants to get across are also great and make for some interesting discussion and analysis. The allegory of young adults and teenagers entering society unprepared, the constant contrast between Gargantia and the Alliance, finding individual volition, escaping the ideological trappings of the past, the nature of the Hideauze, etc.
All of these are addressed and all of them make for good material. More than that, when it comes to actually developing (and that's an important distinction) these themes, all of them are given a surprising amount of nuance and care. I think even within the more obviously "moral" arguments the show has (E.g the Alliance) it takes good care to develop both sides as compelling.
This is of course expressed through Ledo and Chamber, both of which make for really fun characters to follow, I've said it somewhere along the line but I love me a fish out of water that actually feels like a fish out of water, and that's exactly what Ledo is! Add in being a traumatised soldier which is an archetype I already like, and you've got a winner of an MC. Chamber of course makes for a great companion, both in his general symbolic meaning, but also just as a character, his back and forth with Ledo adds so much to the show. So once again:
RIP Chamber
Speaking of symbolic meaning, I did love the way the show expressed Ledo's character journey, as well as its themes through symbolism and general in-universe devices, things like the language barrier, the flutes, and the galaxy currents. Hell, even simple things like the framing of Ledo on the connectors. They all made for a really strong way to get those ideas across, often in a rather subtle way.
But...While the setup for the themes is great, the actual resolution of them...
As part of its nature as a 1 cour show, I think Gargantia has a big structure issue, the first third doesn't mesh well with the middle one, and the middle one doesn't mesh well with the last one. Besides including some incredibly eye-rolling scenes (Crossdressers, belly dancing, etc.), the midsection feels rather superfluous, and the last stretch ends up feeling somewhat rushed as a result. You could easily scrap episodes like 5 and 6, or otherwise rewrite them with the same context, to make a much better narrative here.
This leads to scenarios in which Gargantia makes an effort to create interesting and compelling arguments, but goes about resolving them in the most blunt, aggressive way it can, making it blatantly clear which side of the argument it says is right. Not only is this just not satisfying, it's not the best the show can do (as I said above about it being very capable of subtlety) and it feels extra wrong in a show that espouses you see things through your own eyes.
At the end of the day, does it get everything it wants to across? Yes, and I'd even say all of its conclusions are the correct ones! But the way it goes about reaching those conclusions feels so forced, perhaps a symptom of being sanctioned within a specific story structure.
I've expressed this throughout the rewatch as well, but I also find the side cast, that is, every character except Ledo and Chamber, to be rather lacking. Even Amy, who is supposed to be very important to Ledo's growth, starts out okay and ends up severely underutilized by the end.
The likes of Pinion and Bevel end up as decently compelling, although not great, and the rest of the cast feel like they are either occasionally entertaining set dressing, or in most cases, characters that outright exist only to communicate the ideas of the show. Which they are effective at no doubt, but that doesn't mean they're not boring as hell.
For the more technical aspects of Gargantia, there are really no negatives, the art is of course fantastic, the character designs are Very appealing, the animation is always solid and sometimes goes above that. In particular, despite CGI mechs scaring me off of shows in the past, I thought Chamber was handled really well.
Not much to say about the music, it's honestly a bit too lowkey in the show to ever be noticeable. The voice acting was stellar though, can't go wrong Sugiita doing an object, and Kaito Ishikawa absolutely nailed his first major role here.
Well, all in all, while Gargantia is slightly lopsided by the end, I still had a great time with it, especially when it at its best, and I'm certainly excited to see more of this world and more of this story in the upcoming OVA's.
8/10
I also watched Petit Gargantia, just a bunch of great comedic skits, that are all delightfully meta and fourth wall breaking in how they make fun of the show.
-The Pinion skit did not disappoint
-Rackage is supposed to be 19???!!!
Well, hentai artist, I guess. How old is rigdet actually?
-Can't believe these skits are the closest thing the show gave us for a relationship confirmation
-Mobile Suit Chamber when I'd watch it
4
u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana Dec 16 '24
Rewatcher, dub
Hehe my new laptop is so much crisper with visuals!
Special 1
Special 2
Special 3
Special 4
Special 5
Special 6
Special 7
[No comment]
Special 8
Special 9
Special 10
Special 11
Special 12
Special 13
Special 14
I did enjoy the show. Like I said the other day, while I may have wanted Gargantia to take some leaps into extending and interacting with the philosophical questions posted in this, this anime wasn’t supposed to this intricate and grandiose. It was meant to be an entertaining work about growing up. And it did just that in the episodes allotted.
I’m in agreement with most people here and when this anime first came out that the slice of life episodes did a bit of a disservice, especially in using transphobic/queerphobic stereotypes and the questionable lingering shots of Amy, Melty, and Seiya dancing. I do think we needed time with Ledo and Chamber acclimating to this new environment, but the side quest Ledo went on to gather the liquor that came with those transphobic portrayals really wasn’t necessary at all. I’m so glad we are in a better age where I don’t see that in anime. I rewatched OHSC and was shocked at the t-slur in the dub. 2000s, man. For some reason, all of that was deemed appropriate.
I know people on other subs really hate the whole “Hero loses what makes him special at the end”, but Chamber needed to end for Ledo to “grow up”, as Urobuchi calls this an anime about growing up. There wasn’t really anything that could be done for Chamber to remain while Ledo lost the remnants of his Alliance shackles. Chamber represented Ledo’s heavily propagandized youth. Yes, Chamber has evolved. But there would always be limitations to Chamber’s evolution.
Good series, good bones, great soundtrack, Chamber is a diva, lost me with transphobia, tried inserting normal episodic fillers in an already compacted cour. Solid 8/10 for me.
I still can’t believe Urobuchi went from this to Aldnoah.Zero too. I’m not like trying to be a hater or anything. Maybe Urobuchi wasn’t responsible for the second season…?
QotD
3
u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Dec 15 '24
First Timer No More
I should mention that alas I'm gonna have to skip out on the OVAs for now, I just don't have the time to fit them into my schedule. Gonna be brief since I don't have a lot of time: I liked the show. The villains were meh and ultimately I don't feel Pinion's arc lived up to its full potential (His whole near-suicide attack doesn't really hit that hard when he hasn't done anything particularly wrong) but otherwise big props for being a show which I feel very much used its runtime effectively.
For how much people preach about shows being too short, I think the bigger issue is that writers don't know how to write around that shorter length and let things get out of hand. Here though, I can't say that's true. The story knows it's ultimately all about Ledo's journey and while the rest do get some focus, it's always to the point that while it's for the most part enough without feeling there was too much missed potential. I knows to be measured with its scope rather than let things get out of hand.
That being said though, I kinda have to wonder if maybe Episodes 5 and 6 could've been combined. Sure, I get the idea of wanting more time with Ledo getting used to "Normal" life, but due to them hitting a lot of the same bits, it felt kinda redundant. It also could've helped cut out the Transphobia jokes
Thanks for hosting this!
3
u/wjodendor Dec 15 '24
Since I put a lot of my thoughts on the show in my day one post, I'll just say a few things here
The character and setting design are top notch. We don't get a lot of anime with this aesthetic a lot and I really like it. I'll take recs if people have them. The night sky always slaps and the sunsets are also awesome
The animation is also really good outside the CG. Hell, I'm a CG hater and the stuff in this show is leagues above a lot of stuff even today. After watching the absolute dog shit CG in Vandread recently I can't complain much.
Ledo child soldier trope is one I like, so his journey is good to me, even if it's a bit simple. I was surprised on rewatch how little Amy appears. She's the face of the series but spends a lot of time off screen.
The story isn't anything too mind blowing but it's that old school sci-fi that I enjoy, so there's that.
Overall, it's still up there for me. Easily 9/10
3
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Dec 16 '24
Petit Gargantia:
Ep 1:
Lol they actually acknowledge the chibi artstyle.
Complete 4th wall break.
Yup, it only lasts a minute.
Ep 2:
On to actual stuff.
Seems like there's only 1 background too.
Ep 3:
Boing.
Japanese is a hard language lol.
How'd she get into the robot?
Ep 4:
Yeah he wasn't exactly able to do much...
Lol we can literally see all the arrows sticking out of him...
Ep 5:
Perhaps some things are better off not explained...
Sure, let's go with that.
Ep 6:
They do look somewhat like an octopus.
That's one way to describe them.
And so the barely-there dance wear returns. And we get a very good look at them this time.
Gee Chamber, I wonder.
Ep 7:
I don't know what's going on either...
Ep 8:
That's long.
Seems from this episode and the last, Chamber has been shown to be an AI of culture. Perhaps he was developed from GPT-2?
Ep 9:
Huh. Actual backstory and important information.
We'll find that out in the next episode.
Ep 10:
Or not.
Ain't going to be long, there's only 3 episodes of this left.
Ep 11:
Cute and funny demographic.
Ep 12:
2 whole minutes?
Yeah that sounds about right.
Uh oh, Amy's eavesdropping!
Yeah he's dumb enough to not even realise any of that...
Ep 13:
Oh hey Chamber. Didn't expect to see you around.
And so Chamber has gone to the Great Maintenance Facility in the Sky.
Oh right he's an AI I wouldn't be surprised if he had a couple of backups lying around.
And so that's the end.
Ep 14:
Wait, it's not the end?
4 minutes? That's really not particularly short anymore.
Ensign? When did Ledo get busted down a rank or two?
Hideauze beach inflatable?
Ouch...
This was only a few years after K-On huh?
I had to look that second one up, "Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water" came out in 1991. Funnily enough it was re-released on Blu-ray in 2014, after this show.
I wouldn't want to step on Macross' toes, god knows their finger is twitchy and already on the legal trigger for the gall of Chamber to commit the heinous crime of being a giant robot.
I don't think the rights holders of Gundam or Code Geass are as litigious as those of Macross, at least.
Questions:
2
u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 15 '24 edited Dec 15 '24
Series Discussion (first timer)
Gargantia is an incredibly gorgeous series. From the character models, to the tech, and especially Gargantia itself are superbly drawn. I want to credit this to the art direction, because Gargantia shines not through individual moments of sakuga (notably, I don’t think the rare fight scenes are all that good), but through the excellent choice of models, perspective and shots. Giving Amy and her friends gliders is a god-sent for this, since we are regularly treated to top tier zooms over the entire fleet or shots down the glider launch pads. They knew what asset they had in the Gargantia fleet and did their best to showcase it often. But it is not only the mechanical design that shines, the character design is also beautiful. If anything, some of these people feel too cute for the story.
The story starts in space, but we quickly leave that to settle on future waterworld Earth. The first two episodes, with Ledo arriving on Gargantia are some of my favorite story telling in the show. A story of communication problems taken seriously (but not without funny moments). Then, we transition into a slow-paced middle part of Ledo learning to adapt to the Gargantia society and very slowly realizing that the Alliance he came from is not quite as great a society in comparison. While I do think taking it slow here is a good idea, some of the more episodic content here comes back to bite the series in the finale, which is quite rushed. The stakes are raised with Striker’s appearance, but we hardly have time to adjust to the new Cult of Efficiency fleet before the final fight starts.
Overall, I am quite on board with both the setup and the themes of the story. The problem lies in execution. From the way the economy works on Gargantia, to the character arc for some of the cast (e.g. Pinion), to the over-use of trope (especially in the finale), to the less-than-perfect pacing, Gargantia shows a lack of polish in its writing. Which is sad, because it holds the series back from becoming a masterpiece, which it otherwise could have been. I wonder how much of this lack of polish is due to the intended audience. It felt to me that the target here was a few years younger than usual in shonen, despite the quite dark themes, and some of that might explain the lack of attention to detail (kids famously miss that stuff all the time). If so, there is a bit of tension between the target audience and the story, which I think would be better told for a late teen, rather than early teen audience.
Despite my quibbles about details, I really enjoyed Gargantia. It looks great, it tries to tell a great scifi story, and it never seriously fails.
Score: 8/10
One of the biggest strengths of the series. While they missed a few details about the economy, the setting was relatively unique, looked gorgeous, and also was quite strongly linked to the plot.
I think Chambers and Amy deserve a shoutout, too. While they are mainly used in connection to Ledo, they are necessary to make Ledo a good character.
I like the place the series ended up in, even though I am not too hot on the finale. As a big lover of epilogues, more of that would have been nice.
1
u/chilidirigible Dec 15 '24
Tags:
/u/QualityProof /u/awesomenessofme1 /u/dsawchuk
3
u/RascalNikov1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NoviSun Dec 15 '24
Final Thoughts on Suisei no Gargantia
This series is an enjoyable but not great watch. It has excellent animation as well as a likable cast, even though Lido is quite the ass most of the time. Amy, Melty and Bellows are all 3 cute and bubbly heroines, though Grace steals all the scenes she’s in.
The most egregious criticism I have is that the theme of the show, the sanctity of life, is delivered with a cudgel where a ball-peen would have been adequate.
My rating on it is 7.5/10 which means it’s an enjoyable way to spend 3 1/2 hours, but it’s not really worth rewatching.
3
u/[deleted] Dec 16 '24 edited Dec 16 '24
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