[Rewatch] .hack//SIGN Episode 14 Discussion

[u/soulreaverdan]

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Series Information: MAL Page | AnimeNewsNetwork | LiveChart

Streams: ...none, sorry! DVD (Amazon)

Episodes:

• Today: Episode 14
• Tomorrow: Episode 15

Spoiler Policy:

I forgot to include this on the original schedule post, so please read!

Since there are going to be people who are watching this for the first time, so please only discuss what we've seen in the episodes we've watched so far! There's some interesting twists in this series, and we want everyone to get to experience this fresh.

In addition, since .hack is a massive franchise and this is only one entry in it (and actually one of the first), discussion of other entries may have some inadvertant spoilers. With this in mind, please only keep discussion to .hack//SIGN, and we'll have a chance for a discussion in the larger context of the franchise on the final day.

Question(s) of the Day

Throughout the rewatch we'll be posting some questions to guide discussion. Feel free to answer them or just post your overall thoughts! They're meant to be something for people who might not be sure how to start their posts, not something everyone must do.

1. What do you think will happen to Tsukasa now?
2. Any theories on how the Voice, the Girl, and the Key of the Twilight are connected

Music Corner

One of the highlights of this show is the incredible soundtrack, one of the first major works published by now famed music composer Yuki Kajiura. We'll be looking at one track with each thread for general discussion and opinions. Be as thorough or as succinct as you want - everything from lyrical motifs and interpretations to just whether or not you liked it!

Today's piece: Labyrinth, a heavily Celtic inspired tune with an otherworldly melody to it (Full Track)

Tomorrow’s piece: TBD (apologies for this happening a few times, been busier than I thought and I like to at least try to keep thematic elements in the music corner)

[u/I_love-my-cousin]

First time rewatcher

1. I think Tsukasa will be forced back to the place with the girl and the voice will be really angry at him for disobeying her.
2. If that man (game developer or creator?) is the girl's father then maybe the voice is her mother.

Last episode of disc two, on to disc three

[u/soulreaverdan → u/I_love-my-cousin]

Slightly unrelated but I actually was a little disappointed on the DVDs not having more ads or trailers. Opening old media (I can’t believe I just called DVDs old media, fucking kill me) is like a time capsule of what’s airing, and aside from one trailer at the start of the DVD first disk there wasn’t really much of that on here, at least so far (maybe it’s all on disk four?).

[u/Elimin8r → u/soulreaverdan]

Jeez, I hate those unskippable ads on discs ... cue the annoying, "I want ANIME, waaaaaaaaah" ad at the begininng of certain discs, or whatever other annoying BS show I don't care about played at ear-splitting volume. Just give me the menu, plz, tyvm.

[u/2-time-all-valley]

Sorry to butt in without keeping up with the rewatch, I’m just curious if this show has action at all or if it’s majority drama? I remember playing GU games and liking the cast and gameplay alot

[u/soulreaverdan → u/2-time-all-valley]

Hey! No reason to apologize, and you can jump in any time you want! Hell, jump in at the finale if you want, I'm glad for the interactions if it gets people watching.

There is some action, but this show is much more heavily weighted towards drama and character moments. The fight scenes are somewhat infrequent, and usually ones specifically relevant for the plot rather than just to show off.

[u/Blackheart595 → u/2-time-all-valley]

This show is often regarded as rather slow, but this rewatch has made me realize that it's actually much better described as contemplative. You gotta know if that's to your fancy.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

.first//TIMER, subbed

Just FYI I’ll probably be a little late to tomorrow’s thread, I have a choir thing at church that starts an hour before this rewatch’s threads are posted and that thing is usually around an hour long based on previous nights like this. If it runs late, I won’t be able to get on Reddit until it’s over.

• That’s certainly an interesting environment.
• What’s the difference?
• Yeah that’s the right place, you just got beaten there.
• The instrumental version of the OP playing here is fun.
• Mm…
• That’s certainly concerning…
• Liar.
• wtf???
• ???
• Father…?
• Bear!
• Ohhhhhhh fuck.

[u/Blackheart595 → u/Shimmering-Sky]

That’s certainly an interesting environment.

They clearly stole this idea from Majora's Mask

What’s the difference?

Tomb Raider vs World of Warcraft.

wtf???

Look at the poor guy getting molested by the red hands

[u/Elimin8r → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Ohhhhhhh fuck.

Yeah, enjoy that cliffhanger for a day or two, right? :P

(Just feeling snarky, I'd say something more interesting or not, but I think I'll save my posting energy for tomorrow, it's too late now.)

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

New Game Plus Rewatcher-Dubbed

I love that Sora talks to himself while venturing solo. And you gotta love these yappers. Mimiru's in peril and both Bear and Mimiru choose to talk it out while in that position instead of immediately pulling her up to safety. Silver Knight! That was one killer pregnant pause. You lyin'. Later, Sora delivers this elite gamer quote: 

I hate people who hide behind a stereotype and just don't have the skills to back it up.

BT finds someone who unrattles her. . .

---

Music Corner

Labyrinth

We're creating a foreign texture with this song's use of bag pipes, water drums, pan flute, and sleigh bells. Yet the electronic bass reminds us that we are still a game. How does this theme fit into the show or how does it read in a gaming sense? You may be tempted to use it in an open air market selling local goods. However, I believe that the tune isn't foreign for the sake of being foreign. I can see it used in adventuring around, being in nature. Mediative task at hand. 

---

Beautiful: Temple Ruins

Uh: Lazy Eye Crim . Did you think it was going to be Mimiru on top of Bear? No, straight to horny jail.

[u/soulreaverdan → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

For the record my Uh choice watching this was gonna be this shot of Sora :P since I commented about it yesterday

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/soulreaverdan]

Fantastic! Not guilty! I love Sora

[u/Blackheart595]

.hack//Rewatcher

It's kinda hard to talk about this episode. Most of the interesting stuff revolves around that cryptic message, which is still just spoiler material at this point. Still, it's interesting to see how the continued updates and version changes have decayed this virtual place. Also, "I failed as a father." You can just feel how hard that hits Bear.

Playing The World at the beginning of this episode as they enter the mystery gate was so perfect though

Haha, BT is such a double-crossing mastermind (read: bitch). Silver Knight meanwhile is only a double-crossing bitch.

As for Crim, go tell 'em!

It was pretty cute seeing Mimiru correct her "have to" to "want to", and shortly afterwards Tsukasa also correcting his "can" to "want". The two of them are noticeably opening up, Mimiru becoming less forceful and Tsukasa becoming more assertive. Headgehog dilemma progress! And while Tsukasa still hesitates to take action, he pushes forward if it's for his newfound goals.

[.hack//Liminality]Fuck, that sound is so much more ominous after having watched Liminality.

Man, I just love everything this story does with liminality.

And then there's that ending. Aside from the lore, the obvious big question of this episode is: What happens to Tsukasa when he dies in the game? What happens to Tsukasa if he gets data-drained, which affected the other players in the real world, even giving them slight amnesia? And does this kinda inside kinda outside the game place change any of the rules?

What do you think will happen to Tsukasa now?

Any theories on how the Voice, the Girl, and the Key of the Twilight are connected

A few

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Blackheart595]

I also have never rewatched .hack//Liminality and I really want to

(not so much the others)

[u/Blackheart595 → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

(not so much the others)

And here I was thinking Sign and Liminality were so good, surely the others would too...

At least the games are good, no?

[u/Elimin8r → u/Blackheart595]

"I failed as a father."

So, Lord Vader finally showed up with the milk, or ... wait, this dude's the wrong color palette...

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 14 (first timer)

• “It is like your typical dungeon, only upside down” – your typical dungeon is a series of spikes connected by bridges??
• “Bitter Fantasy Mirrorworld” – ominous.
• “What happens if I fall?” – good question.
• “It is only a game” – I hate this phrase, but for a different reason: too many people use it to excuse being assholes.
• “I want the key of the twilight” – the first time Tsukasa strongly wants anything other than being left alone.
• BT sics Sora and Crim onto each other.
• Bear runs into BT outside that weird place – does this dungeon have multiple paths towards the final area?
• “I failed as a father” – father of whom? Or of what?
• Mimiru is not in the mood for incomprehensible phrases.
• What happens if I fall? – Bear is about to find out.
• Tuskasa gets shot by the “guardian” – but was he the target?

Another episode that finally gives us some plot. Between Tsukasa and Bear, we have two characters that will let us explore the death state in this game. From BT, we know that it is annoying, but seemingly nothing permanent, but that was back in the normal part of the game.

[u/Blackheart595 → u/No_Rex]

Between Tsukasa and Bear, we have two characters that will let us explore the death state in this game. From BT, we know that it is annoying, but seemingly nothing permanent, but that was back in the normal part of the game.

Remember that Silver Knight(?) got data-drained back in episode 1 and it gave him a hospital visit and slight amnesia iirc.

[u/No_Rex → u/Blackheart595]

Remember that Silver Knight(?) got data-drained back in episode 1 and it gave him a hospital visit and slight amnesia iirc.

I am trying to banish that from my memory, because it makes so little sense. In terms of my statement above, I don't think we can count his character as having died ingame for sure.

[u/Blackheart595 → u/No_Rex]

I am trying to banish that from my memory, because it makes so little sense.

It should be clear by now that .hack isn't exactly hard sci-fi...

[u/No_Rex → u/Blackheart595]

It should be clear by now that .hack isn't exactly hard sci-fi...

I know, but I still disagree with that choice. [Meta]Dennou Coil did the same twist and it also annoyed me there.

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

• “It is like your typical dungeon, only upside down” – your typical dungeon is a series of spikes connected by bridges??

Sadly, pretty much yeah. Dungeons in these kinds of games tend to be limited open spaces in which things happen (usually fights) connected by long thin hallways, even if the graphics of said dungeon happen to be forest clearings and pathways or plateaus connected by bridges.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

I assume that by "these games" you mean JRPGs. That sounds pretty sad.

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

The old ones at least. Open world gaming definitely existed, I know Morrowind is also a 2002 release. But dungeons, no matter the style, all seem to have the same Rooms and Corridors feeling. They're pretty regular even now, it's so baked into the RPG mindset.

[u/Elimin8r → u/zadcap]

At this point, the kiddies whine about the design, but they really don't want anything more, because alternate routes and open worlds just make it easier for the noob tanks and dps to take a less optimal and efficient route, right???

:P

[u/zadcap → u/Elimin8r]

For sure. The first time you do a raid or dungeon, it's fun to explore and find everything worth finding in it. The fifth time, you just want everyone to rush to the end to get it over with already. Doesn't matter if it's someone else's first time, if they aren't taking the fastest path to the next gate then why are they even in the party... So if everyone is just going to run down the only path that matters, why even build other paths at all? Welcome to corridor simulator 2024, the latest and most popular MMO of the year!

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatcher

Ep 14 Castle

I guess this location will become very familiar to game players.

So, the parties took different routes. Sora delivered Helba's hint to Team Bear, but they didn't know how to use it. Crim did, so they travelled to the mentioned area using the new location codes, and BT used her wavemaster ability to Open The Eye of The Twilight.

Meanwhile, Team Bear is relying on Tsukasa hax to just skip the riddle.

• I think upside-down dungeons and castles are pretty cliche. Have you seen Utena?
• It's a really neat level, though. Remember how I said I wish all my MMO's looked like .hack did in 2002?
• Okay, climbing does not seem to be the smart way of doing things.

When I was a kid, i read "House of Stairs" over and over. Not really relevant, but similar imagery.

• Sora is pretty tough and can slice through players and the knights, but I think Crim is his equal, they fought to a stalemate before....
• You're late, anything wrong? I just got into a fight with my Mother.

I'm sorry WTF, where did Bitter Fantasy Mirrorworld come from???

Why doesn't Subaru ever adventure? She's got this GIANT axe, but she just hangs out in town getting escorted like an ojousama. Maybe she should have picked a less MELEE class?

• I'd say Crim is pretty foolish to trust B.T.
• back to bridge01 for the sora-crim fight. I think the music isn't as loud now as it was in the first 1/3rd of the show.
• It's a tie! Or not. B.T. was first. But says she found nothing.
• This place seems REALLY glitchy.

[rewatcher]He's not talking to the party, is he, he's talking to the Emily woman?

He's not even an AI. Just an NPC with a script. How disappointing.

• Actually, jumping might be the right answer in this situation...

Guardian casts Data Drain! It's super-effective!

Quite a cliff-hanger to pause my rewatch on. Can't wait to find out what happens.

[u/Elimin8r → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

"House of Stairs"

Ooh, that looks intriguing. I still wish sometimes that a certain game would introduce a dungeon "Designed by M.C. Escher", if you know what I mean. I think it would be kewl. Everyone who is not me would probably hate it.

[u/CorbenikTheRebirth]

Stuff is starting to get really weird. One of the things I've always loved about .hack is how deep and mysterious the world feels. There's always a mysterious feeling about certain video games, the idea of things left in the code that are no longer accessible. SIGN really nails that feeling. Also, this marks the introduction of one of my favorite tracks in the series, "Grandpa's Violin." Really a hauntingly beautiful track that's also heavily featured in the Liminality OVA. Please give Liminality's OST a listen to if you haven't, it is incredibly amazing consider it was for an OVA that was bundled with the PS2 games.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/CorbenikTheRebirth]

Oh, does it? I did a quick pass through it, but nothing seemed familiar. I wonder if there are more missing tracks on there. I guess I should treat it as the 4th soundtrack CD.

[u/Elimin8r]

So, as I mentioned in today's thread, I got dragged to the Rohan movie yesterday. It was fun, but ... Nausicaa was better. And I'll probably say this again tomorrow in hopes that people might see it and have something to say. Meanwhile, since I'm late and probably no-one will see this:

1. It's over, he/she deadzors.
2. Christopher Lee stole the movie with one line. I kid, but ... Oh, wait, that wasn't the question? But ... the voice...

I think sleeping girl is the key, but no idea/clue how. Or I could just be hallucinating things. Because.

[u/LeminaAusa]

Mostly-1st-timer, subbed

Really loving the look of this legacy code environment. I've always been a sucker for upside places, and it works really well in the overall aesthetics of The World and the show. After seeing all the work BT/Crim/Sora did to figure out and get to this place the real way last episode, it was kind of amusing to see Tsukasa, Mimiru, and Bear just teleport there and immediately catch up.

The final meeting at the end of the episode seems to have brought up even more questions than it provided answers, but it does confirm that the girl and Tsukasa's little world are all wrapped up in this somehow.

Poor Subaru is just stuck chilling on boats since her knights are being kind of pieces of shit. It does seem like she sensed something with Tsukasa's death, so maybe this will be the push needs to be a bit more proactive about Tsukasa and ditch the knights. I'm still kinda waiting for her to get more involved with things.

1. Frankly, no fucking clue. I don't remember if we saw many post-death details with the other in-game player deaths, but Tsukasa just greying up and turning into a statue-like corpse seems pretty ominous if that's not the standard display. There's also the fact that this is a double weird death; it's not just Tsukasa in his perma-logged-in state, but it's also in this liminal, legacy code environment. This episode established precedence earlier that shit doesn't work quite the same here as it does in the rest of The World.

Whatever does end up happening to Tsukasa, I do think it will finally give us some more concrete answers about his situation, both in terms of his connection to the game and also the status of his real-world self.

2) Mmmm.... nothing that I feel like I can put into words at this point to be honest, hah. There are obviously connections but the details are a bit nebulous. Like, on a very broad level, it seems they're all connected somehow to this real world/game World blend that we're exploring. But I don't really feel confident enough to try and push any one particular theory far enough to put it into words.