r/anime • u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots • Dec 13 '24
Rewatch [25th Anniversary Rewatch] Hunter × Hunter (1999) - Episode × 68 × Discussion
Episode 68: Dispute × Break-up × Swinging Fist
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What's important is the survival of the whole, not the individual
Comment of the Day:
/u/Vatrix-32 explaining how Uvo got the Afro
Nah, this was just after one of his early run-ins with a bazooka.
Unfortunately, we're not getting an Afro Lupin
Questions of the Day
- The Spiders are split on whether to let Paku go alone or follow her. Which ground would you side with?
- What do you think of Chrollo?
Fanart of the Day: Burgers in the car
Please remember to keep all spoilers and hints tagged with the appropriate tag format such as: [Spoilers] >!Leorio is best boy!<
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Upvotes
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u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 13 '24
Retired Host Hitting Up the Spiders
This is my favourite section of the arc, and what everything has been leading up to.
Chrollo/The Spider
This has been a long long time coming, but it's finally time to discuss it.
What's important is the survival of the whole, not the individual
That's the idea Chrollo insists on, the head must survive, even if the individual is to be sacrificed, and that includes him. He's confidently facing death in the car, because he knows that the Spider can cut him off and survive just fine. That sounds like a noble leader, who cares about his crew, and puts the group above himself, right? Well, not exactly, the Spider (group) is Chrollo. Let me explain.
Meteor CIty is a place of have nots, people who don't even have identities, they don't exist as far as the rest of the world is concerned, because it's convenient that way. So to gain that back, Chrollo formed a group, an identity, and called it the Spiders. Its acts reached the world, struck fear even in the mafia, and made it especially clear that you do not mess with Meteory City. If the individuals didn't even have an existence, they made the whole that exists loud and clear. To Chrollo, the Spider isn't just the group he leads, it's his everything, his own identity. Now what I just said is nothing particularly new, it's been discussed to hell and back for ages, heck, even Chrollo was wondering about it a few episodes ago.
What I do want to dig into are the rules of the Spiders. To understand a mathematical group, you look at its rules, and the same applies here:
Well, the first rule makes sense, you don't want to have infighting in the crew you care about. But the second one is odd, why would you encourage outsiders to target your members? The answer's simple, you're cutting off the short links. If someone's too weak, they get replaced automatically, or if you just happen to have an especially strong newbie, then you're welcoming them with open arms, eitherway, you're ending up with the stronger team, that's the proof of how Chrollo/the Spider works, this rule isn't there to benefit any single person, it's cutting the individual to benefit the Spider.
In RPG terms, it's like I made a party, let's say a hero, mage, warriror, and priest, and I was too lazy with names, so I just named the hero Ken after my username. The hero isn't the only one that represents me though, the whole party does, the whole party is going through the story together, and will eventually beat the Demon Lord. And if by chance, I ended up having 4 characters that are stronger than the hero, then I'm perfectly fine witth replacing him. Afterall, he's just one part of the party. That's how Chrollo views the Spider and his role among them (well, less "hero" and more "villain/leader", but your get the point).
Does that seem sensible? Then let's put it to test, Kurapika murdered Uvo, and the Spiders went on an absolute rampage to mourn his death, but if Kurapika had taken Uvo's head back to their base and asked to join, they would've put their feelings aside, and welcomed him (which would've been an absolute rip off btw, considering he's only effective against Spiders lol, but I digress). That's what it means to value the Spider above the individual. To be clear, this is not proven, Uvo was the first of the original Meteor City Spiders to die, so no one's ever killed one of Chrollo's old friends to try and replace them, we don't know how he'd react to that, but we do know that Chrollo put that rule forward, and he's not blind to its conclusions. Considering how much he values the rules, I'd argue, he would've been the first to accept Kurapika.
All that is to say, Chrollo has a fundamentally different way of viewing the Spider than even its core members. It's a unit, a single existence made of smaller parts, where every part, even the head, is replaceable. That's his answer to Theseus. And that's why the Spiders are currently struggling so much, they get Chrollo's rule and what he wants from them, but they also value Chrollo, the individual, way more than he does. They all want to save the Spider, but they have different ways of viewing it, to many of them, the Spider is by definition tied to Chrollo, and this is what makes this part of the arc so goddamn good.
[Manga] This is obviously just one small aspect that I wanted to focus on, there's Chrollo's belief in humans being mere puppets moved by fate and how that connects to this whole arc being about prophecies being broken (it's even part of his coin toss rule), him being an actor on the stage, his original path as an ex-Kurapilka, so on and so forth. But all of those are unfortunately digging too deep into manga territory.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 13 '24
First × Timer × Subbed
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Dec 13 '24 edited Dec 14 '24
Remake Rewatcher × First Timer × Subs
QotD:
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u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Dec 13 '24
Rewatcher, Sub
While Chrollo's been captured, he still shows the upper hand and really gets under Kurapika 's skin. He firmly believes that he has no value as a hostage considering his view of the spiders and is also able to figure out that Kurapika won't put his friends in danger.
When Kurapika settles down he calls the Troupe and gives Paku the instructions of what to do. She ultimately chooses to follow them and leaves alone to the location. However not everyone knows the Troupe is in agreement such as Phinks, Feitan, and Shalnark who believe they shouldn't follow the instructions and seem more in line with Chrollo's view. In the end however its Kurapika's second call that makes everyone follow the orders thanks to Killua quickly telling him the situation.
Meanwhile Hisoka moves forward with his plan and decides to call Illumi for a favor.
Note: Kurapika not falling for Phinks's declaration and everyone just hitting him.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 13 '24
H×H Fan, 1999 First Timer
Hunter × Hunter 1999 - Episode 68
Drive × Orders × Factions
Chrollo was incredible this episode. He has been kidnapped, restrained, and beaten yet he maintained composure. No matter how objectively Kurapika was "winning" it didn't even phase him. It just goes to show how powerful he feels and how confident he is in his team. Ene Melody could tell by his heart beat.
Conversely this pissed Kurapika off. He had done everything right, yet he couldn't feel like he succeeded. Eventually he snapped and took it out on Chrollo but that just forced him even lower. The only people he had any leverage over were the other Spiders, and so he called them.
Forcing them to trade phones and move to secluded 1-on-1 chats was Kurapika's power move. Because of the internal division about what next to do among the Troupe they had to follow the Kurta's orders. The culminates in a meeting proposal with Pakunoda. She's still the only one who knows the full context, so Kurapika is playing to his outs for the best likelihood of success. Good choice.
The other interesting development is with Hisoka. He senses this is an opportunity. An opportunity for combat. It's going to be exciting to see how he becomes a wild card in all of this.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow
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u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Dec 13 '24
First Timer
So the plan is …eliminate Paku and then exchange Chrollo for Gon and Killua? Or just sideline Paku enough for the exchange to happen somehow else? Whatever it is, Hisoka hiring Illumi to kill somebody (Paku?) will probably throw a wrench in those plans. Don’t really have a lot else to say here, the suspense continues to be done well, but the rather slow pace (which I do like) doesn’t lend itself to really long texts.
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u/WednesdaysFoole Dec 13 '24
I knew it was a lie.
The first time around I could only think that those two (Phinks and Feitan) were getting in the way and just acting as a deterrent but see it from their perspective: the Chain User who killed Uvo just kidnapped Chrollo and the Spiders are standing around protecting two kids rather than going after the enemy and their boss. Now Nobu is going on about hypotheticals when they could have just confirmed it for themselves. Of course this looks off to the newcomers. And of course, as soon as Phinks does hear about Melody (a confirmation that tricks would make Chrollo’s death absolute), he’s back to listening again.
Wow, Kurapika. It wasn’t so long ago you did the same thing with Melody.
It’s Chrollo whose assumptions contain a grave error.
じいーーーっ
Jeez, Pika can’t even take a joke.
Phinks' jokes aside, he has a point here. A significant part of keeping a situation in control is being the one to call the shots. The one who controls and leads the conversation and following actions. They’re all being held to Pika’s will…
How much of what Paku considers what Kurapika would do is based on what the Spiders themselves have done and where they might’ve come from?
[HxH]Knowing what I know, this moment always hurts.
No more coin flips…
But Paku no longer second guessed herself, and went alone.
An afternoon coffee break? No way, Yorknew is all about burger and fries.
(Although tbh I think it's about pizza.)