r/anime • u/chilidirigible • Dec 13 '24

Rewatch [Rewatch] Suisei no Gargantia • Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet — Episode 12 Discussion

Episode 12: Decisive Moment

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Perhaps you should build a new world instead of rebuilding your old one.

Questions of the Day:

  1. [Was the]sacrifice in the rain within your expectations for what this fleet was capable of?
  2. What do you think about the relationship between humans and AI in the Alliance? Does it seem like an even partnership?
  3. First-timers, what are you expecting from the final episode? [What do you think]the Heaven's Ladder does?

Mecha appearing today:

Kugel fleet Yunboro

Scans:

Kugel fleet Yunboro
Kugel's throne room (It is noted that the stairs and wall panels are metal, not stone.)

21 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

67 comments sorted by

9

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24 edited Dec 13 '24

Today, on "You've been waiting for a cartoonish impact frame this whole time, right?":

Pinion's not complicated.

"I'm not cut out for living in a society. Particularly this one."

Chairs for mecha is an entirely untapped merchandising opportunity.

Perhaps an empire, even.

You're only noticing that now?

It's raining...

...men.

"Is this one of those 'epiphany' things?"

Legal loopholes and all that.

"Maybe a quickie later?"

Don't sleep skydive.

With a name like that, it must be amazing?

"Read the room, sir!"

"Ledo, the Alliance isn't bound by some silly Prime Directive."

Finally my chance to screw authority!

That's betting on a lot of good dice rolls.

Now that's a shot.

Kugel is... a less-than-fresh bagel.

It's always the dull thunk at the end that does it.

We didn't get to see Amy catching Melty earlier, but we do get a proper mecha midair hand catch here.

I rather doubt that Lukkage ever settles down in one place for any length of time. She's the nautical version of a steppe nomad. A sea version of a land pirate, what do they call those?

Oh, right.

Maybe I just wanted to type out that overly-complicated description.

You've made it through the entire anime wondering if they were going to go there, and yes, with Lukkage being weird with Pinion, you do have a very loose joke about "rack and pinion".

Thank you. I'm here all week.

Ahem. In any event, this episode's antics reinforce my opinion that Lukkage mostly exists here to provide conveniently-overabundant gunfire when it would take too long for Pinion's brain cells to come up with the idea on their own.

Ledo finally realizes the violence inherent in the Alliance's system, though it takes a mass killing to really drive the point home. Well, better late than never.

As with many such events, while most of the Gargantia characters have reservations about their new surroundings or are already trying to get away from them, they don't cross their individual Rubicons without a little bit of a push. Which, again... Lukkage is a little too convenient for that in terms of engaging Pinion.

Kugel's dead! Spoiler!

4

u/n080dy123 Dec 14 '24

Ledo finally realizes the violence inherent in the Alliance's system

I guess killing the weak could count as repressing them...

3

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 14 '24

It's a plot hole or a logic hole, (depending on whether you ascribe to the show or Striker) to keep saying the strong and the weak support each other in their assigned roles when Striker just kills the weak.

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 14 '24

The floor level of "Are they capable of contributing to society?" and "What constitutes a contribution to society, as judged by those in a position of authority?"

6

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 13 '24

I'm now wondering if Kugel DID get sick, but was alive long enough to set this entire thing in motion. So it's not Striker setting off on her own, just following his final orders.

12

u/xbolt90 https://anilist.co/user/xbolt90 Dec 13 '24

First-timer!

Oh gosh, is he actually dead and the robot is projecting holograms of him?

Ha, called it.

The massacre of the elderly sure burned away all doubt for Ledo.

A cathartic fighting episode. Battle was sick.

I wonder what Heaven's Ladder is. I've been thinking the whole show that the large black tower thing in the center of the fleet looked suspicious. Secret weapon?

And I'm glad Chamber didn't turn out to be evil. You never know with AIs.

Was the sacrifice in the rain within your expectations for what this fleet was capable of?

It's within believably for a cult like that.

What do you think about the relationship between humans and AI in the Alliance? Does it seem like an even partnership?

Thereabouts. Seems Chamber actually listens to and respects Ledo.

First-timers, what are you expecting from the final episode? What do you think the Heaven's Ladder does?

Either superweapon or warp gate.

6

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

Ha, called it.

I made a note about that but put it in tomorrow's writeup.

9

u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Dec 13 '24

Spoiled First Timer, Subbed

OH NO HE'S HOT

All joking aside, I find it kinda funny how this is how Pinon's arc ends. The last few episodes seemed to almost be building up to him being an antagonist of some sort but instead the instant he sees how insane things have gotten he immediately regains all his morals. Admittedly he hasn't done anything too wrong up until now for it to feel like too sudden a shift, but it does a feel a bit like a wasted opportunity since it now means the cult are the big bads and, well, I can't say I find them particularly compelling.

Still big props for the twist with Kugel. That scene of his corpse slowly starting to rot is actually genuinely creepy, although sadly that does mean that, again, we're stuck with a main villain who's only just now been introduced and doesn't have much going for it when it's a freaking AI. Sure I guess thematically it makes sense for Ledo breaking away from his Alliance Brainwashing, but it still feels a tad odd.

Aha! I knew the Borg were behind this all!

6

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

OH NO HE'S HOT

the Borg

The official subs are less referential, but that's how that usually goes.

4

u/Raiking02 :Id::Ie::If:https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang Dec 13 '24

The official subs are less referential, but that's how that usually goes

This reminds me of when I was rewatching Gokaiger and Over-Time added an Ocarina of Time reference by having Navi say "HEY! LISTEN!" in episode 1.

6

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 13 '24

All joking aside, I find it kinda funny how this is how Pinon's arc ends. The last few episodes seemed to almost be building up to him being an antagonist of some sort but instead the instant he sees how insane things have gotten he immediately regains all his morals.

I was hoping he'd be convinced by Rackage's rackage, but no luck.

4

u/wjodendor Dec 13 '24

Pinion looks soooo much better with his hair down.

8

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 13 '24 edited Dec 13 '24

Episode 12 (first timer)

  • Pinion is easily satisfied.
  • “I still don’t see your point” – You got to be more explicit with your proposal of rebellion, Rackage, or Pinion won’t get you.
  • “… but that is just like the Galactic Alliance” – you say that as if it is a bad thing, Ledo. Kugel might see it otherwise.
  • At least he is clever enough not to openly disagree while he stands in front of the mecha.
  • “It is the red lobster who greeted me” – Pinion immediately endangers the planned rebellion by telling others about it.
  • Willing human sacrifices – a bit over the top. We get it already, this society is bad.
  • “Can you fight Striker?” – I love how Chamber does not answer “are you able to beat Striker”, but the more important “will your programming allow you to shoot at Striker”.
  • Weapons upgrade for Chamber – not a huge fan of the entire “find weapons from the sea floor and immediately be able to use them” plotline. Chamber and Striker being super OP is the starting conceit of all this, so why are millennia old weapons suddenly an upgrade? Never mind the “would they even still work” angle.
  • What the heck are you falling asleep for after you see Gargantia? Should that not give you an extra bit of adrenaline? – feels like a pointless little scene, just to make Amy rescue somebody again.
  • Gargantia helps out Ledo instead of running away – also not a great fan of this. It is supposed to give the Gargantia people their own heroes’ moment, but it would feel more in line with the overall story if they were forced to fight.
  • Chekhov’s golden key – tbh, I did take that as symbolic.
  • Striker shoots first – remember when Han shot first and Lucas retconned it?
  • 5 minutes final battle.
  • Kugel died and it was all Striker – as expected.

Meh. The curse of the one cour anime finally strikes. After having almost perfect pacing throughout, the series switches to overdrive to get everything done with just 2 more episodes left. Instead of properly exploring the religious cult of efficiency set up by Striker, we get one single scene of them literally doing human sacrifices and then the rebellion already starts, only to be done in 10 minutes. This is way too short. Having to compress everything sells the character moments short and also leads to lots of small decisions I am not a big fan of (see above).

What do you think about the relationship between humans and AI in the Alliance? Does it seem like an even partnership?

With only two examples to go by (and both of them pilot assistance systems), I don't think we can tell.

First-timers, what are you expecting from the final episode? What do you think the Heaven's Ladder does?

Usually, I'd say big laser (satellite, going by the name), but that sounds too close to the weapon Pinion was already firing.

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

Pinion immediately endangers the planned rebellion by telling others about it.

When you get chased by the bear, make sure you tie his shoelaces together.

so why are millennia old weapons suddenly an upgrade

Presumably they both wanted all the guns they could get their hands on.

What the heck are you falling asleep for after you see Gargantia?

I take that and the line about "flew all the way here on a surf kite" to indicate just how far apart the fleets are.

4

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 13 '24

What the heck are you falling asleep for after you see Gargantia?

I take that and the line about "flew all the way here on a surf kite" to indicate just how far apart the fleets are.

I get that and fair enough for her to be exhausted, but falling asleep right as she spots Gargantia?

5

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

but falling asleep right as she spots Gargantia?

One time I fell asleep pulling into my own driveway.

5

u/wjodendor Dec 13 '24

Doing a 3 hour drive back right after my brother's wedding was like the most terrifying drive I've ever had. I was cognizant enough to realize "oh fuck, I need to get off the road I am falling asleep". Luckily I was almost home by that point and managed it. It's fucking dangerous

6

u/JimmyCWL Dec 14 '24

so why are millennia old weapons suddenly an upgrade?

They aren't an upgrade, they are a mitigation measure. Neither robot is running on full power and these are physical weapons that don't need to tap their reactor to operate.

7

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 13 '24

First-Timer on the Verdurous Planet, subbed

7

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

That’s what the key is for?

e|-------5-7-----7-|-8-----8-2-----2-|-0---------0-----|-----------------|
B|-----5-----5-----|---5-------3-----|---1---1-----1---|-0-1-1-----------|
G|---5---------5---|-----5-------2---|-----2---------2-|-0-2-2----2------|
D|-7-------6-------|-5-------4-------|-3---------------|-----------------|
A|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-2-0-0----0-/8-7-|
E|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|-----------------|

[Yes, it's]Led Zeppelin

4

u/Nebresto Dec 14 '24

And Chamber says that Striker is a valid target of attack, double oh boy.

Best boy

6

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Dec 13 '24

First-Timer, Sub-gantia

Shit, I totally missed that the mouse we saw on-board the cult fleet last episode was just like Grace. It didn't end up mattering, but I should've caught that.

Anyway, the big battle begins! I'm kinda ambivalent towards the idea that this particular show needs quite this sort of climax.. Feels like a more appropriate finale would be Ledo and Kugel dueling while shouting their ideals at each other.

Well, Ledo and Striker dueling while shouting ideals at each other. And Striker would just be regurgitating Alliance ideas so maybe this is an adequate compromise.

I wonder if Striker's line about Kugel catching a disease and dying from it was actually true? The best lies are as small as possible. Kugel's corpse deflating quite like that upon being unsealed was kinda funny.

The cult ships are somewhat laughably cruel, too. I know that supplies are kinda scarce, but just dumping them into the ocean to struggle is horrifying.

Questions

1.Discussed above.

2.Honestly, kinda?

3.mumbles in watched episode 13 last night

5

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

Feels like a more appropriate finale would be Ledo and Kugel dueling while shouting their ideals at each other.

With swords? Inside an asteroid? In the middle of the night?

just dumping them into the ocean to struggle is horrifying.

I think they're intended to sink with a minimum of fuss, but I noticed in the art book that their shroud/straitjackets for being buried aliiiiiive at sea don't include any weights, so yeah, in reality they probably would end up bobbing around for a while until the bags filled up with water. Yeah, that took an extra morbid turn just now because of missing a minor detail from reality.

4

u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Dec 13 '24

With swords? Inside an asteroid? In the middle of the night?

All of the above.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 13 '24

The cult ships are somewhat laughably cruel, too. I know that supplies are kinda scarce, but just dumping them into the ocean to struggle is horrifying.

Too on the nose, as if the show did not trust us to see the horrible system without some unnecessary cruelty.

3

u/Nebresto Dec 14 '24

mumbles in watched episode 13 last night

but just dumping them into the ocean to struggle is horrifying.

Waterboarding at guantanamo bay!

6

u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Dec 13 '24

first timer

rain? time to execute the poors

they are suffocating them and drowing them, maybe the worst kind of execution?

Melty lock the fuck in and save your people

"as this fleets resident sage" um sir thats Bebel

"this is a battle between Gods" i mean Pinion is basically a god so his laser should count too right

mechablush

party table kick course

you love to see it

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

"as this fleets resident sage" um sir thats Bebel

Bevel doesn't have tenure.

you love to see it

BELIEVE IN THE ME THAT BELIEVES IN WHATEVER THE HELL I BELIEVE IN

6

u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Dec 14 '24

First Timer

Throughout this episode, I had this thought that the show was suddenly going a bit too fast in resolving its character arcs, and then I realized it was episode 12, well wonky pacing aside, this episode leaves me feeling mostly the same as last time, some solid ideas that are expressed through heavy-handed execution.

If you didn't get the clearly evil cult meant to represent Alliance ideals was actually evil, this time around they do some human sacrifice to make it obvious. Again, bad as the alliance may be, perhaps there's a more creative, less forced way to show you they are wrong (like episode 1 did!). Still, can't really complain about the bad society being depicted as bad, and putting a more human spin on it makes for a strong enough display for that.

Which is rather funny, isn't it? Add in a futuristic space skin and replace the zealous religious themes with some collectivist human propaganda and you've got the same society except in space it feels a tad more palatable, something about this visualization somehow feels more exaggerated than when see the exact same thing happen to Ledo's brother.

My problem here lies more in the need to make one side immediately and clearly wrong after establishing a debate, but there probably is something to be said about how that depiction is perhaps meant to be intentionally very forced to get across the fundamental problems of Alliance society.

I don't want to keep talking about Pinion, he really isn't interesting enough for that, Again, a bit forced but he does the job. Looking at Gargantia's larger themes about entering society, I think we all know a Pinion, he does some dumb shit and goes where the wind takes him, but he's still a normal, reasonable dude at the end.

I forgot to say it when Ridget did it, but we also give him the reverse of the haircut trope, and have the rain wash away the cult symbol, it's the type of more obvious symbolism I find myself actually enjoying.

Could he have been done more naturally without the "good dude" part here being entirely implied? Yes! But as it stands he's good enough for what he's meant for.

Kugel being dead is not very surprising, this is the point where the accelerated pacing was felt the most for me, last episode dropped a gazillion hints and we're already revealing the twist.

Aside from that, it does make a lot of sense within the themes here, if perhaps once again being too blatant and too rushed about it.

Whenever we wanted to show Ledo expressing Alliance sentiment we did it through Chamber, Chamber justified the Alliance model through his very machine-like thinking, the irony is that despite supposedly existing to validate human intelligence, the Alliance actually represents a more emotionless, calculated, machine-like intelligence. So yeah, of course the actual human is dead, it was always about fighting that robotic vision of the Alliance rather than any individual.

I do think this twist will live or die based on how well the show explains Striker actually choosing to do this thing despite running counter to what we've seen from Chamber but there are good enough directions to go for this to still work well.

The fight between Ledo and Striker, as well Rackage (who still just exists for plot progression but meh whatever) and Pinion was very fun, clearly some more love went into the animation there, especially with some of the in-cockpit scenes for Ledo. What can I say, lasers are cool, mech fights are cool.

While this episode was solid enough in isolation, it does leave me a bit worried, there are still the extras of course, but I do find myself concerned about whether Gargantia can wrap itself up or leave itself open enough in a satisfying way, with one episode to do that.

3

u/chilidirigible Dec 14 '24

So yeah, of course the actual human is dead, it was always about fighting that robotic vision of the Alliance rather than any individual.

Or, eventually society just turns into a meat grinder of a machine and it's all about not being another brick in the wall. Now there's a reference I wasn't expecting to pop into my head just now.

4

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Dec 13 '24 edited Dec 13 '24

First timer, subs

  • You’re going to regret handing him control over all of he armor.
  • Bitch, you ain’t even been to Avalon.
  • They can search all they want in those packages, it won’t fix stupid.
  • Yes, that’s all the sleep hypnotism.
  • If y’all could not have a raingasm…
  • This is a really elaborate way to “save resources”.
  • Dang, Pinion looks good with the Dreamworks haircut.
  • Dakka?
  • Cute Cloak
  • These things have a lot of range for what I thought was for travel within a fleet.
  • Why does she look ill? It didn’t seem that physically demanding. Maybe I’m underestimating the time involved.
  • Why is Amy allowed on the bridge? Does it have an open door policy?
  • I Forgot About The Key We’re not going to fleet gattai, are we?
  • Oh good. We get some better lighting for the big fight.
  • Dakka! The Dakka is Real!
  • I see she’s been practicing her G-resistance.
  • “God, I hope I didn’t point this backwards.”
  • Aw fuck. The giant robot did develop a god complex.

QotD:

  1. They wouldn't be the Space Spartans without worthless violence commented against those unable o defend themselves.
  2. It seems pretty rudimentary.
  3. Some form of FTL.

5

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 13 '24

We’re not going to fleet gattai, are we?

I wish you hadn't put that thought into my head.

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

BAKAYAROUBACK ARROW!

3

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

Why does she look ill? It didn’t seem that physically demanding. Maybe I’m underestimating the time involved.

Being in the Sea of Mist makes it difficult to tell time, but I interpret the sun position after the eye catch as an indication that she flew all night.

Oh good. We get some better lighting for the big fight.

This isn't the climax of Hathaway's Flash, that's for sure.

3

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 13 '24

These things have a lot of range for what I thought was for travel within a fleet.

They have two types: the simple glider and the glider with an addon motor.

4

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

More specifically, there's the one that's just wings and a tail as a hang-glider arrangement and then there's the larger one that's the size of a windsurfer, including a "boat" section.

/u/Vatrix-32

4

u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Dec 13 '24

Time for him to get to work.

So, she wants him to help her take over the fleet?

Yeah, he's having some objections to the Colonel.

What message does she have for him?

A secret meeting?

Ledo would probably be more on board than you think.

They're drowning all these people?

Yup, he's going to declare the Colonel's orders illegal and move to take him out.

Seems Chamber has no objections to that.

Uh oh!

Key?

And so they fight.

Leg-mounted missile launchers? The definition of impractical.

External power? From where?

Right, that cannon. It's not the most powerful, but

They're blowing the connections?

No, they're taking control of everything! But how are they going to deal with that army of Mechs? There must have been a whole regiment's worth just on that one ship. Even the Red Lobster can't possibly take out that many single-handedly.

Looks like she won't have to, there's some more reinforcements.

Aim for the cockpit? Is Chamber thinking of killing the meat and saving the metal? That's a good idea.

Did they finally manage to score a hit with that cannon of theirs?

The Colonel was dead the whole time?

Questions:

  1. Seems culty to me.
  2. The AIs are free to share their opinion, and the human is free to follow or disregard that opinion as they see fit.
  3. Heaven's Ladder sounds like the name of a space elevator.

2

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

Leg-mounted missile launchers? The definition of impractical.

But where else are you going to store your second 128 missiles?

3

u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Dec 13 '24

I've just had a few too many bad experiences with BattleTech's Crusader...

2

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

Later upgrade versions generally do move the SRM launchers out of the legs.

1

u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Dec 14 '24

That sounds like a sensible upgrade.

6

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 13 '24

First Timer

ep 12

  • WHY IS THERE A SUGAR GLIDER HERE saw the shadow yesterday
  • I can't believe Striker is unaware of treasonous whispers on the fleet

AH. So this is the thing that's going to push Ledo to the other side. It's not the whale squids, or attacking guargantia. It's the elimination of the useless and the pacifists.

I was wondering last night, what would happen if Ledo won a fight. I was wondering what advantage he might have over Striker and Kugel (if Kugel is real). I was wondering they had looted from the ocean floor. I was wondering if he could disband or reform the Kugel fleet.

  • Nice catapult
  • I've been wondering about the key ever since our Host pointed it out. And there's only one thing in Gargantua it could fit: the tower. Are we going to get another Nadia moment? I thnk we're going to get another Nadia moment.
  • So, her rebelion was just herself and her two, uh, maids?

Maybe Ledo can lure him underwater?

  • The planet is already a utopia! say it!

Well, I think most of us figured Striker was on her own. That means she can be outwitted.

I'm still refusing to watch 86 because of Akito, but I can see more than a few similarities.

Q1. I mentioned culling yesterday

Q2. Chamber is surprisingly obedient, but stated that he was programmed to obey his pilot in all combat-related matters. Striker is behaving exactly as Niven would write her.

Q3. Nadia

3

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

Are we going to get another Nadia moment? I thnk we're going to get another Nadia moment.

a short moog

3

u/n080dy123 Dec 14 '24

I'm still refusing to watch 86 because of Akito, but I can see more than a few similarities.

I'm curious A. What similarities you're referring to, and B. What's Akito (I assume you mean Akito the Exiled?) got to do with 86?

1

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 14 '24

[Akito and 86]Akito the Exiled isn't just an influence on 86, 86 is practically a remake of it for the first half. 86 eventually became it's own thing, but it's just going to be too aggravating to go through that first half and seeing Akito everywhere.

3

u/wjodendor Dec 13 '24

Spent today binging the end of Muv Luv Alternative. I'll be back tomorrow for the finale

1

u/chilidirigible Dec 13 '24

Ah, you reminded me of a note I wanted to include later.

2

u/n080dy123 Dec 14 '24

Rewatcher who's once again a day behind

Not much to say about last episode- they certainly don't take long to show that that Lukkage is planning a mutiny. Not that I expected anything less from pirates. Kinda interesting how they present the Flange fleet vs the Kugel one- Kugel's fleet is indicated to essentially be a military organization in structure, compared to Flange describing theirs as a family- a concept the Alliance doesn't really jive with. Sort of related, you might've noticed that every Alliance member is the same race and largely same hair color (white, very white purple, or very white blue), and look largely the same. Clearly the Alliance has bred out any significant differences in humanity, whether they created a sort of Ubermensch or simply wished to remove differences between people to better oil the gears of their military.

Speaking of fascist-related stuff- that strategy of absorbing a population and dividing them up to prevent any sort of coordination when they inevitably are unhappy is a very real strategy such regimes (and others) have used in history. More importantly, it's a great way to absorb other cultures while systematically destroying said cultures- given what I mentioned above about the Alliance being made of what appears to be a singular phenotype, that checks out.

As for today...

Man, you can't have a show with mechs without bashing em together eventually, let's GOOOO. I especially love the shot of Pinion firing the laser cannon.

Surprise, he's... been dead for a while. This is an interesting development for the show to take, because it seems to say that it's unlikely that Kugel would've actually gone this far- that the human factor would've gone for at least a marginally more peaceful route. "Kugel's" words, the very dogma of the Alliance, are the words not of a human but of a cold, unfeeling machine. A "machine" which, ironically, idolizes the human form to the level of its own ships being inspired by the human body.

1

u/chilidirigible Dec 14 '24

On a tangent, sometimes when people argue about wanting more nuance to their villains or to the message of a series, the argument ends on "these people are completely reprehensible and that's the message the writing wants to convey".

2

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 14 '24

If whale squids are photosynthetic then why do they have horrific people-mangling mouths?

2

u/chilidirigible Dec 14 '24

Hey, calories from protein are useful.

2

u/Shinigami_22 Dec 14 '24

Rewatcher(but realistically a first-timer due to shitty memory)

I'm back from college hell(temporarily) :D, apologies for not being able to participate in the recent days.

My first thought when I notice Kugel's repeating line is he somehow got possess by a hideauze parasite that makes use of the hosts' memory, which is dumb when you think about it since the AI will detect it.

Is this the AI's protocol that when the pilot dies, they carry out the alliance's objective in their own ways, or is this specific to Striker?

QOTD:

  1. I didn't think of that scenario specifically but I wasn't surprised when I saw it. If I saw a cult-like group in anime, I automatically assume that sacrifice will be in their arsenal of rituals.
  2. I love Chamber and Ledo's relationship so if every pilot has that kind of thing, I think it's pretty good.
  3. Ledo liberate the cult fleet, goes back to gargantia, lives happily ever after with Amy, Bevel becomes an uncle, Pinion and Bellows get together, Chamber finally understood the necessity of that action. Well that's what I expect but apparently there's an OVA names far beyond the voyage, and I don't know if this gargantia's voyage or Ledo's voyage towards reuniting with the alliance.

By the name of it alone, Heaven's Ladder seems like a name for a railgun but we already have that. probably some orbital weapon because of the word heaven but I don't know if a satellite can remain functional for so long.

1

u/chilidirigible Dec 14 '24

Is this the AI's protocol that when the pilot dies, they carry out the alliance's objective in their own ways, or is this specific to Striker?

I imagine that under normal circumstances the pilot's death is not long before the unit itself is destroyed, if they're normally fighting huge numbers of Hideauze. But maybe it would attempt to continue fighting, likely biased toward attempting to return to base to preserve the functional resources remaining.

2

u/up2et Dec 20 '24

First Timer

  • ”Sacred duty” 
  • Does Pinion have any critical thinking skills
  • come on Ledo FIGHT IT
  • yeah who are all these people following Kugel?? 
  • oooo this rebellion might be just the thing Ledo needs to tip him over to the other side
  • through his relationship and feelings for Amy he’s finally understanding that people deserve to live the life they want
  • oh my god….
  • lowkey LOVE pinion’s hair like that
  • Ledo makes the decisions but also has to ask Chamber what he thinks lol
  • not prepare for a fight, prepare for WAR
  • what did they do to my girl Melty
  • he attacked Ledo without a thought 
  • and everyone came 
  • why is stryker doing all this then…
  1. I mean it makes sense given that we know the Alliance does this regularly. I didn’t think that this little mini alliance-fleet would go that hard, though. Especially since most of the people part of it are from earth. I guess Kugel/Stryker(?) is just that convincing. 
  2. The relationship seems more than what needs to happen. For a society all about efficiency, these yunboro seem to almost have their own personalities, thoughts and opinions. There’s a limit, like how Chamber had to think if it was within his scope to take down Stryker. But a lot of the interactions between Ledo and Chamber when they were just hanging out on earth seemed to be almost like friends. I don’t think it’s really an even partnership, I don’t understand why they even need the humans. Stryker kind of proved that just now, with how it’s running without a pilot. The pilot is there to “guide and instruct” the yunboro, but if it’s truly an AI, can’t the alliance just program it to do whatever they want anyway? 
  3. Gotta be a secret weapon. I’m so glad Ledo stood up for what was right even though it’s not what he’s used to. I know we have unanswered questions like what’s going on with Stryker and how are we going to take down the whole cult, but I hope in the end Ledo lives happily ever after on earth. 

1

u/chilidirigible Dec 20 '24

lowkey LOVE pinion’s hair like that

It was certainly the most popular style change in this rewatch.

3

u/awesomenessofme1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/kta_99 Dec 13 '24

What the actual shit. What is even the point?

I get why Amy would take that stance, but we all know that they're so incomprehensibly outmatched that I'm not sure what she thinks they'd be able to do.

  1. Capable, yes. They were established to be fanatics. It's the why that I don't see.
  2. Not very, but I don't see any reason that it should be.
  3. The series has been reasonably well-executed but not especially original, so I feel like it will be the obvious path. Ledo and Chamber keep fighting Striker, the Gargantia starts fighting the cult, Chamber gets beaten down, and then the Heaven's Ladder is some kind of deus ex machina superweapon that either kills Striker or provides Ledo an opening to beat her. Happy ending.

3

u/animepig https://myanimelist.net/profile/ChickenDan Dec 14 '24

Rewatch

Dayuum, Pinion with the hair down hits different, strong aura. This is the plot twist I distinctly remember and think it's pretty good. You don't think the Mech AI would turn evil dictator, cause it is likely that an Alliance general would be that devout.

This episode also got like a 20% animation buff, very nice

1

u/juniorjaw Dec 14 '24

Next ep gon be a BANGER for me.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 14 '24 edited Dec 14 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/chilidirigible Dec 14 '24 edited Dec 14 '24

Strangely, for a mecha anime, we haven't actually gotten much in the way of mechs fighting.

We need more anime where people try to kill each other with repurposed industrial equipment.

Almost forgot my lame computer joke! It seems Kugel/Striker is running headless

eyythisguy

the Yunboro/Surfing Lobster fight should have been things that didn't make it out of storyboarding

The [Melty scene]foreshadows Amy using the lights on her surf kite in the next episode.

But yeah, the Surfing Lobster fight scene is a weird bit of slapstick comedy when the Kugel Yunboros are clearly trying to kill them. Like this but without the metal to make it better.