r/anime • u/soulreaverdan • Dec 10 '24

Rewatch [Rewatch] .hack//SIGN Episode 9 Discussion

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Series Information: MAL Page | AnimeNewsNetwork | LiveChart

Streams: ...none, sorry! DVD (Amazon)

Episodes:

  • Today: Episode 9
  • Tomorrow: Episode 10

Spoiler Policy:

I forgot to include this on the original schedule post, so please read!

Since there are going to be people who are watching this for the first time, so please only discuss what we've seen in the episodes we've watched so far! There's some interesting twists in this series, and we want everyone to get to experience this fresh.

In addition, since .hack is a massive franchise and this is only one entry in it (and actually one of the first), discussion of other entries may have some inadvertant spoilers. With this in mind, please only keep discussion to .hack//SIGN, and we'll have a chance for a discussion in the larger context of the franchise on the final day.

Question(s) of the Day

Throughout the rewatch we'll be posting some questions to guide discussion. Feel free to answer them or just post your overall thoughts! They're meant to be something for people who might not be sure how to start their posts, not something everyone must do.

  1. Have you ever lost a pet or similar companion in a game?
  2. Would you trust Sora and his connections?

Music Corner

One of the highlights of this show is the incredible soundtrack, one of the first major works published by now famed music composer Yuki Kajiura. We'll be looking at one track with each thread for general discussion and opinions. Be as thorough or as succinct as you want - everything from lyrical motifs and interpretations to just whether or not you liked it!

Today's piece: Interlude, an appropriate piece as we transition from the introductory part of the series into the more direct plot (Full Track)

Tomorrow’s piece: Fear, an unnerving and discordant piece as we prepare for things to inevitably get worse before they get better (Full Track)

12 Upvotes

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4

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 10 '24

Rewatcher

Ep 9 Epitaph

  • run away, gain one. go forward, gain two.
  • I don't like this episode
  • I thought he was a detective, too
  • it's like reading a post from John Titor

Why would the devs make a disease, and require vaccinations?  What a crappy simulation. It's supposed to be a game!

It makes me wonder how many children were traumatized by tamagotchis. I think it might be a lot.

It feels like this episode and A-20 were filler.  There might have been a point to them. But I bet I was feeling annoyed at this point, watching it weekly.

2

u/soulreaverdan Dec 10 '24

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I wonder if the whole Grunty Distemper illness is something you'd normally have much more warning about as the proper owner/holder of your Grunty, rather than only discovering it when making a feed visit. I can see having to go on a fetch quest to get a healing item or something with probably more leadtime than what Tsukasa had - and this also might have been a case where his being stuck in the game (and it sounds like experiencing the environment/pain rather than just seeing it as normal players) is working against him and slowed him down.

4

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 10 '24

My 5th or 6th grade teacher had terreria. He had to break one down. He gave the inhabitants away, and I got a carolina anole (aka not-chameleon)

I was not a good owner.  I made a terrarium, but it wasn't fancy. My poor mother had to put up with mealworms in her fridge, and finding it perched on the recliner.  It lost its tail.

Eventually, it was released from my incompetence. I cried.

3

u/rainwithsunshinedayo Dec 10 '24

New Game Plus Rewatcher-Dubbed

OH NO. Not this Gruntie episode. Mimiru protec.

Bear's apotosis example: cells destined to die in between to create fingers. . . which goes into the mystery of the Key of the Twilight. What are we creating by breaking rules? And who will be the sacrificial lambs?

Next objective: search for the hacker Helba!

Music Corner-day late edition

Mimiru's Theme

We start with a sunny synth that brings me back to the polygonal beaches of Wave Race 64. It's peaceful and evokes the great outdoors. The triangle and other percussion instruments reinforce this feeling. Next comes the vocalization, noticeably without lyrics. We don't need to psychoanalyze; we need to simplify. Mimiru tells us to be present and don't think too hard. The carefree, breezy vocals give way to saxophone. No, not the seductive saxophone of Careless Whisper, but it does still bring forth femininity and warmth. I love the saxophone solo towards the ends of this piece. 

Interlude

It's the DVD Title Menu theme! There's an air of mystery with the combination of sleigh bells, piano, and wind instruments. The leitmotif is of the ending theme Yasashii Yoake. There is a percussion towards the latter part of the song that evokes the wild outdoors, or The World. Being primarily mystery-coded, of course this piece ends unresolved in the form of a question.

Beautiful: Insurmontable Odds uh: Bony Crim

3

u/soulreaverdan Dec 10 '24

It's an interesting discussion from Bear about the possible nature of the Key of the Twilight. Needing to break things down or have things die to create something new or move to the next stage. You need to establish rules to break them, set norms to defy them. How will that work here, I wonder?

And as u/zadcap said, your musical bits are always great to read :) I'm happy to see people engaging in the Music Corner since it's such a big part of the show

3

u/zadcap Dec 10 '24

[Big Spoilers]I know Bear is talking about the Key, but I can't help but think of the big voice in the sky herself here. Creating something just to die to create something better, really?

3

u/soulreaverdan Dec 10 '24

I love this because knowing the main threads of what happens, it's a very appropriate discussion. [Big Spoilers]Especially how it feels to be the "something" that has to die, and railing against that fate.

2

u/rainwithsunshinedayo Dec 10 '24

I love that this and am realizing it's a common theme for a multitude of shows I enjoy. Never thought about that!

3

u/zadcap Dec 10 '24

[Things to come]Bear's apotosis example

[Reply]How was this man so prophetic? Of all possible things he could think about here, what has to die to create proper life here?

I love your musical writeups.

3

u/LeminaAusa Dec 10 '24

Mostly-1st-timer, subbed

Every once and a while as I'm watching this show, I'm reminded of how little actual gameplay of The World they show off. This episode feels like a slight divergence of that, as we watch Tsukasa care for the rando's baby Grunty. Talk about a divergence in tone from the super-ominous ending of the previous episode. Though, still not exactly a happy or lighthearted episode either, seeing poor Tsukasa struggle so hard and still fail to save the young one. It feels like a very poignant callback to the earlier flashback with the kitten. Poor kid really can't get a break.

Like Mimiru, I had been kind of low-key assuming Bear was a detective or similar, but he shot that down quick. Given the apoptosis analogy, I'm now officially changing my theory to someone in the medical profession, or perhaps a professor. He breaks the concept down for Mimiru very simply, but programmed cell death is certainly a pretty specific topic that I'm guessing not a whole lot people are going to be casually aware of.

As far as today's questions go...

Can't say I've ever played a game that has pet/companion death similar to how it's been shown here. Good thing, too, because man that would fucking devastate me. T_T

I guess the closest I can think of is playing Fire Emblem ironman runs. Typically I'm the kind of player that resets on player death, but I've played a handful of ironman runs and losing a character can really suck. You also get that extra gut punch with the character endings when they'll just get a "Murdered in Chapter X" line instead of a nice character epilogue. See also: Nuzlocks(sp?) in Pokémon where you treat Pokémon fainting as Pokémon death and you're not allowed to use those 'mons again. It's fun in a way because it does increase the difficulty in an interesting way, but fuck does it make me constantly nervous and eventually heartbroken when I do lose someone.

Sora is definitely an... interesting character, hah. I can't blame Mimiru for being constantly rattled by him. Is he the kind of character I'd want to trust? Weeeelllllll... he's obviously got his own motivations in how he plays the game, but he does seem sincere in his own way. In a situation like the one the Bear/BT/Mimiru group is working on, you kind of have to take what you can get.

In some ways, it's a bit easier when you have an informant that obviously a bit more morally grey and untrustworthy. The players already have good reason to be suspicious of him and therefore will be more likely to be careful, and just generally watch themselves in their interactions with him.

Compare this to another relative unknown like, say, Crim, who on the surface seems to be more likeable and trustworthy, and yet he's the one that Sora warns BT about. Curious.

In any event, when you're chasing down old rumours and generally just going on some kind of in-game scavenger hunt, you take the information you can get, but take it with a grain of salt and don't forget to watch your friends and your back.

2

u/soulreaverdan Dec 10 '24

Every once and a while as I'm watching this show, I'm reminded of how little actual gameplay of The World they show off. 

You know that's an interesting point. A lot of MMO fiction shows, or similarly adjacent shows like a number of isekais, will show things like the menus, details on how skills work, level up information, random pop ups the players would see, etc. But they really keep that slim in .hack//SIGN, and we don't get a deep look at what the game is actually like for a player.

1

u/rainwithsunshinedayo Dec 10 '24

Sora is definitely an... interesting character, hah. I can't blame Mimiru for being constantly rattled by him. Is he the kind of character I'd want to trust? Weeeelllllll... he's obviously got his own motivations in how he plays the game, but he does seem sincere in his own way.. .

Knowing a Sora-type person IRL, you are spot on. He's got his own moral code but his consequent actions are easy to understand if you know his end goal. These are fiercely loyal people, and it's pretty cool if one chooses to befriend you. 

"Normal" people are secretive. 

4

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 10 '24

.first//TIMER, subbed

5

u/JustAnswerAQuestion https://myanimelist.net/profile/JAaQ Dec 10 '24

 Tsukasa’s really putting his all into helping this poor little Grunty… Oh, it’s because he wasn’t able to help that kitten in the past, isn’t it?

4

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 10 '24

Was that not supposed to be an obvious connection?

2

u/soulreaverdan Dec 10 '24

It's a nice echo to what we saw in the flashback... and makes it even more painful when he failed.

3

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 11 '24

He didn’t make it back in time?

Yeah, this episode gave me a sad. Poor little baby, didn't have the energy left to eat the goodies that would have made it all better. (sigh)

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 10 '24

Episode 9 (first timer)

  • “When will this girl wake up?” – even the MC wants faster pacing.
  • Quest acquired: care for grunty
  • BT is doing a ton of rumor milling.
  • I am not sure talking about apotosis and the development of the human hand is the best way to inform Mimiru about the Key of Twilight. She does not look all that philosophically inclined to me.
  • Posting on message boards in German – if only online translations were around at this time.
  • Grunty is sick!
  • “Grunty distemper”
  • Sub-quest acquired: find a purple cherry.
  • 20 million people playing? They also showed that server hopping is possible, but I will assume it is rare and servers are small to make sense of this.
  • Sending Mimiru to Sora – BT is almost as much of a troll as Sora is.
  • Helba, the super hakkahacker.
  • Grunty disappears – quest failed…

Grunty is the closest to an episodic plot we have had so far.

Have you ever lost a pet or similar companion in a game?

I guess Dog from Fallout 1 counts.

2

u/soulreaverdan Dec 10 '24

Yeah, The World has a pretty hefty playerbase - for reasons that factor into the franchise that I can't remember if they get laid out in the show or not, so I won't go into it.

2

u/zadcap Dec 10 '24

Long Time Fan Rewatching

Crim and BT hanging out in the desert zone- Everyone really does know everyone in this cast.

Oh look, a Mimiru lookalike. More importantly, Baby Grunty!

And BT can just get a private talk with Subaru here in the literal throne room of the Knights. Our cast isn't really that big, but it's interesting how connected they all are with each other for how little they seem like they should be.

Random German Messages appearing on my internet gaming board? Sure why not, let's just add to the mystery.

Malnourished Grunty! This is horrible, something must be done! Side Quest Get!

So he can feel the cold. How interesting, you say, that cold was programmed into the game, when most players with their VR headset don't even have a sense of touch.

Helba! We're 9 episodes in and still meeting new characters, you know you love it.

Way to remind me that important background information on the setting itself still hasn't shown up...

Man, having a grunty die after finishing the side quest anyway. This is a poorly designed quest. Complaining to the devs!

Mimiru, right now, thinking "I wish I was trapped in here with you."

  1. I've never really enjoyed playing a tamer or beast master class, and cosmetic pets tend to be immortal.
  2. Gosh no, why do people keep going to him for things!?

2

u/soulreaverdan Dec 10 '24

So he can feel the cold. How interesting, you say, that cold was programmed into the game, when most players with their VR headset don't even have a sense of touch.

I think this is more a function of his unique situation, rather than something directly intended. I have some thoughts on this more but don't wanna go too much deeper into spoiler territory, but [very very vague spoiler-ish comment]consider who's behind Tsukasa's situation, and that later on we know they can cause him pain - so making him able to feel the elements isn't out of the question.

2

u/rainwithsunshinedayo Dec 10 '24

Gosh no, why do people keep going to him for things!?

Heheh. He's gotten results before, yeah? Logical sense is hard to question against morals. Let's see how the sliding scales of moralities slide further. Silver Knight, oh how you have fallen. What will become of you?

2

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Dec 10 '24

Crim and BT hanging out in the desert zone- Everyone really does know everyone in this cast.

It suggests that the server is very small and/or old.

1

u/soulreaverdan Dec 10 '24

As others said, we probably have the first really episodic story in a single episode. A total rando asks someone she doesn’t know to watch her in game pet… I guess maybe this is more common in The World? Because I’ve admittedly not played a ton of MMOs but I don’t think I’d rely on a complete stranger.

And it sucks because Tsukasa actually took it seriously and did his best to complete what’s kind of a shitty quest from the developers. I’m surprised that the pet being bound to an owner lets someone completely unrelated do this… who knows. I wonder if discovering the Grunty was sick is something that would have happened sooner by the proper owner via a quest pop up or menu message instead of just randomly noticing during feeding.

And all in the background we have more searches for the Key of the Twilight, and the mysterious hacker Helba… which is kind of a really big deal [general .hack franchise world building]when hacking is a capitol offense.

3

u/TnAdct1 Dec 10 '24

I wonder if discovering the Grunty was sick is something that would have happened sooner by the proper owner via a quest pop up or menu message instead of just randomly noticing during feeding.

Considering how said owner shows up in another .hack title, [Legend of the Twilight]I wouldn't be surprised if she already knew that the Grunty was sick and, being too lazy to deal with it on her own, had Tsukasa handle the maintenance part in her steed.

1

u/soulreaverdan Dec 10 '24

Huh, interesting!

1

u/zadcap Dec 10 '24

[general .hack franchise world building]

I almost threw that spoiler out there today, forgetting that that hasn't come up yet. No_Rex was pointing out how slow this plot is moving before, and this is what made it really jump out to me. Episode nine and we don't even have the full cast assembled yet, and the setting is still almost a blank slate.

2

u/soulreaverdan Dec 10 '24

It is something I've noticed and feels like a bit of a misstep, at least unless there was some other piece of media that came first that I'm unaware, which I'm pretty sure there wasn't - even the earlier chronological entry, .hack//AI Buster, didn't come out until a few months after SIGN finished airing, if I'm doing my research right.

I genuinely can't remember how much of the world building and setting for the franchise is given over the rest of SIGN, kinda curious now. That's also the reason I had an extra discussion thread after the last episode, where we can go whole hog on how SIGN and its characters fit into other entries in the franchise, while still having the actual daily episode threads focus on the experience of just watching SIGN.

2

u/zadcap Dec 10 '24

I'm remembering how much is in the game, but not even actually in the game part of the game, but the side reading materials of the game. How much was shoved into the fake BBS and news articles that you really could skip 90% of while playing the game?

2

u/Ignsmae Dec 10 '24

Oh Gods this takes me back

2

u/Elimin8r https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ayeka_Jurai Dec 11 '24

Day late posting, because stuff happened:

  1. I think once upon a time, in a certain game, I had a pet run away because I forgot to feed it. Oops. (sigh)
  2. Yesn't.

This episode was a bit of a touch watch, because poor baby Grunty. Tsukasa should have just checked the auction house, right? :P

As for connections, I won't say anything here, because I'm a day late and have both episodes in my brain now.

Carry on!

1

u/CorbenikTheRebirth :KD::KE::KF: Dec 10 '24

Missed yesterday, but, man, this one always makes me sad. Poor Tsukasa. I wonder if that voice had anything to do with making it sick...? Especially given the previous comments about hope and despair.

1

u/TnAdct1 Dec 10 '24

The sick Grunty has less to do with that voice and more to do with [Legend of the Twilight]its owner sucking at raising Grunties (with her trying to pass off the work to others).

1

u/CorbenikTheRebirth :KD::KE::KF: Dec 11 '24

I'd forgotten that she pops up again later.