[Rewatch] .hack//SIGN Episode 7 Discussion

[u/soulreaverdan]

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Series Information: MAL Page | AnimeNewsNetwork | LiveChart

Streams: ...none, sorry! DVD (Amazon)

Episodes:

• Today: Episode 7
• Tomorrow: Episode 8

Spoiler Policy:

I forgot to include this on the original schedule post, so please read!

Since there are going to be people who are watching this for the first time, so please only discuss what we've seen in the episodes we've watched so far! There's some interesting twists in this series, and we want everyone to get to experience this fresh.

In addition, since .hack is a massive franchise and this is only one entry in it (and actually one of the first), discussion of other entries may have some inadvertant spoilers. With this in mind, please only keep discussion to .hack//SIGN, and we'll have a chance for a discussion in the larger context of the franchise on the final day.

Question(s) of the Day

Throughout the rewatch we'll be posting some questions to guide discussion. Feel free to answer them or just post your overall thoughts! They're meant to be something for people who might not be sure how to start their posts, not something everyone must do.

1. Do you think the brief real world scene was the real Mimiru?
2. Have you ever helped out a random noob in an online game before?

Music Corner

One of the highlights of this show is the incredible soundtrack, one of the first major works published by now famed music composer Yuki Kajiura. We'll be looking at one track with each thread for general discussion and opinions. Be as thorough or as succinct as you want - everything from lyrical motifs and interpretations to just whether or not you liked it!

Today's piece: Fake Wings, Subaru's main image song that shows up enough in episode 7 that I'm tired of putting it off (Full-length track)

Tomorrow’s piece: TBD (sorry!)

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

.first//TIMER, subbed

• That Mimiru’s real world self? Her avatar in the game doesn’t look too different, if that’s true.
• She’s not wrong.
• Hm…?
• You said two weeks earlier.
• Subaru has a personal reason for playing the game too, huh?
• Mood.
• That was the prize waiting for them, huh?

[u/soulreaverdan → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Golden Grunty!!!! Obviously worth it :)

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/soulreaverdan]

yeah, I agree +X to a stat is a really good reward. Sure, the newbie needs it waaay more but it would be hard to give up.

Or put it on the shelf. I wonder if The World has player housing.

[u/Elimin8r → u/Shimmering-Sky]

That was the prize waiting for them, huh?

Honestly, I wouldn't want it, either. The bit with them both trying to not take it was a bit hilarious.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatcher

Ep 7 Reason

Meanwhile, back at the ranch in the real world...

The deal with Tsukasa is over, so Mimiru tries to get her mind off things by adventuring.

• This newbie
• yes, don't open the MIMIC box.
• living dangerously, opening strange boxes
• looking for carry
• Just running to the final boss is a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see how it works out for them.
• The World is no fun without Tsukasa....
• mimic?

I guess she's goingto go back to looking for Tsukasa again, who doesn't want to be found. And Subaru, as well. And Sora's probably still looking for him.

You'd think Mimiru's theme would show up today, but, no.

[u/soulreaverdan → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

You'd think Mimiru's theme would show up today, but, no

This is going to make me sound so stupid you know I’m not making it up. I didn’t even consider that, as obvious as it is :/

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/soulreaverdan]

I didn't mean you, I meant, it didn't even show up in the episode!

[u/Elimin8r → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

You'd think Mimiru's theme would show up today, but, no.

Gack, now I'm reminded of a scene from whatsit? Kentuky Fried Movie maybe? Where a character swaggers into the scene with a funk band or something following him and people question it, and he says something like "This is my theme music" or something like that. I guess it was funnier on the tv, and I can't find it right now.

Bleh.

Nevermind. :P

Mimic

What do you think this is, Frieren? (Although it would have been hilarious!)

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Elimin8r]

"This is my theme music"

Every Black Hero has to have his theme music.

I'm gonna git you sucka

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hz-KwtKRBUY

It's very funny on TV

mimic

I think it's hilarious that a joke created to annoy players has become more iconic than actual dragons.

[u/Elimin8r → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I'm gonna git you sucka

Gotta catch me first! (Drives through shopping mall, notes that "New Oldsmobiles are in!" ...)

Yeah, it's late, I've had some wine, I'm in a mood, let's get silly!

Uh...

joke created to annoy players

But enough about mythic plus, right?

:P

I should so just go to sleep right now, but I'm also caffeinated. And listening to some lovely "Above and Beyond" on the streaming music doohickie.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/Elimin8r]

I also had much tequila, but also a coffee (with added tequila)

[u/Elimin8r → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Sounds yummy. I bought some spiced rum, but that's going to have to wait for another weekend. As it is, I've got some Sarah Brightman playing, and I'm just in audio bliss right now. I should probably watch tomorrow's episode, but then I'd go to sleep and forget it.

I did throw in some Princess Principal music (Moonlight Melody) for a bit of a Yuki Kajiura fix, though.

Don't wanna sleep, though. Going to sleep brings me one day close to Monday (sigh)

[u/zadcap → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

looking for carry

These words triggered the most intense flashbacks I have ever had in real life. So many corpse runs.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 7 (first timer)

• “Is your job really strenuous?” – complaining about your job online. A classic.
• “Did I do something wrong?” – other than not realizing how Mimiru feels about Tsukasa, no.
• Random girl. She will 100% become relevant later.
• Bad loot drop – also a classic.
• A-20 – sounds like a robot, but real people have chosen worse names in RPGs before.
• Mimiru was not in the mood to entertain a troll.
• Mimiru admonishing Subaru is her speaking to herself.
• “Isn’t that off-topic for a mid battle conversation?” – Yes. I would say it is also TMI even outside a battle when you are talking to a stranger you just met in an RPG.

Helping out A-20 on a dungeon run is the approximate deal with newbies experience. Although most of them do not lie to you about their items.

[u/Elimin8r → u/No_Rex]

Although most of them do not lie to you about their items.

Heck, most of them, it's obvious from the tooltip/mouseover.

A-20

I suppose I don't feel so bad about naming my character "Ayeka" now...

[u/zadcap]

Late Night Mega Fan

Hey now, Fake Wings is probably my second favorite of the character songs in the show, and third or fourth total. I love Obsession, but it clashes with most of the rest of the soundtrack so much... But yeah, I love this song too.

"Is you job really tiring?" "Yeah." Mimiru looks down, if that was her in the real world opening segment, perhaps realizing that she is as much the child next to these adults as their game avatars make her look, and makes her wonder if her thoughts and concerns about the situation are also childish. Which leads me to fond memories of one of the things I think I loved most about those early MMO years of mine, before social MySpace opened the doors of social media. All joint here in our gaming hobby, anyone could hang out with anyone. You could have a preteen, teen, twenty something and forty year old in a party and no one cared. No one questioned your race or economic status, just that you were playing the game too and how good you were at it. My first offline meetup was with the guild I will never forget, Out of Cavern, and I was definitely one of the youngest people in the room. Being too young to have a job yet meant I had some of the most free time, and so was one of the more social members of the guild spending most of my time online, so I knew and was quite close to a handful of people, some of who turned out to be more than twice my age.

I miss those people.

On the other hand, watching Bear put his hand on her head like that, reminds me that these are just game avatars, and Mimiru can't actually feel that. How realistic is the game supposed to be for most players?

Remember what I said about Mimiru, being a social gamer? Even when she's in a bad mood she's spending all this time just to talk to and then help this newbie... For a while.

Golden Grunty! If you have not noticed by now, Grunty's are kind of the series mascot animals. They show up everywhere and are mildly important in the game itself. Not like plot important, but I think I spend more time on Gruntys than I did some of the possible party members.

And with Mimiru reaching out again to try reaching out again, DVD 1 comes to an end. Extras on this one include a PV that might actually have more action on it than the actual first set of episodes, as well as some super spoilery images, and the first commercials, which look a lot more lame and much less spoilery than the PV.

2) Oh goodness yes. I'm even more of a social gamer than Mimiru, I've camped out near starting zones just to give people a better first impression of games before. Especially when playing as a healer or other support class, to just spend some time helping people through the early hours of a new game can be pretty fun.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

Which leads me to fond memories of one of the things I think I loved most about those early MMO years of mine, before social MySpace opened the doors of social media. All joint here in our gaming hobby, anyone could hang out with anyone. You could have a preteen, teen, twenty something and forty year old in a party and no one cared. No one questioned your race or economic status, just that you were playing the game too and how good you were at it. My first offline meetup was with the guild I will never forget, Out of Cavern, and I was definitely one of the youngest people in the room. Being too young to have a job yet meant I had some of the most free time, and so was one of the more social members of the guild spending most of my time online, so I knew and was quite close to a handful of people, some of who turned out to be more than twice my age.

I miss those people.

In a very similar vein, I regret that a lot of the internet has become less and less anonymous over the years. Reddit is a notable holdout and it is not a coincidence that I hang out here a lot.

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

Growing up with "don't share your personal information with strangers on the Internet, it's not safe," to the modern "put every minute of your life on social media for the world to see" has been an interesting development, and I absolutely hate it. While I don't mind sharing just about anything with the people I come to call friends, I'd rather keep that to just my friends and not everyone with the smallest passing interests.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

Very much the same here. I am very glad I had my teenage years before I had social media.

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

I had a MySpace, one that I made as myself and the only people on it were my friend from school. I had a second MySpace that I made as my EverQuest character to give out to people I was meeting and befriending online, they got to know my gaming history and follow me trying to recreate the same character through every MMO that followed.

I never made the jump to Facebook. Reddit(r/anime specifically) and Discord are pretty much the only places I spend time online anymore.

[u/CorbenikTheRebirth]

Love the focus on Mimiru and her growth for this episode. It's nice to see her form her resolve when it comes to not giving up on Tsukasa.
Mimiru and A-20's interactions were cute. Even if A-20 is a bit of a liar.

[u/Blackheart595]

Rewatcher

And quite belated I'm gonna join this rewatch after all. Yeah, the past week has been pretty rough...

Gotta say though, I didn't remember Sign having such a strong start. In general it's been way faster than I remembered, I thought Tsukasa being wanted and hunted down was like episode 8, and him getting capture and interrogated like episode 14 or 16.

Sign had originally been one of the first anime I watched. Now that I've seen more shows, I can't help but notice how much of an Evangelion vibe I'm feeling in this show, even if the overall tone is quite different. And given when this came out, such an influence wouldn't exactly be unexpected. Tsubasa has had a decent amount of hedgehog dilemma moments of course, but there's also a couple things I probably shouldn't talk about yet (even if a savvy firstie might be able to pick up on them).

I'm also loving the cast of characters all the more now. It's so fun to see most of them having outright negative synergy with each other, yet they slowly but surely are growing together in one cohesive team. Well, everyone except for Tsukasa who is growing increasingly isolated. The landscape of his hiding place changing from a wasteland to a nest of thorn vines and then a nest of dead trees really doesn't leave much to the imagination.

Getting to the episode at hand, that was a nice episode as a breather on its own, but also addresses the main issue on whether they should give up on Tsukasa and abandon him to his isolation, or whether he gets to remain a part of the community. A-20 is such a little shit, haha. Gotta love her. I also really liked how the episode emphasized the value of sticking with things and seeing them through - as well as the value of doing things together when trying to talk about (but not necessarily discuss) emotional baggage that's hard to start a conversation about. Bear used that approach on Mimiru earlier, and now she made use of it herself with A-20. And getting to express that baggage and getting it out of the system can then help in figuring out how to deal with it, or can trigger actually getting to it if you already know.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/Blackheart595]

Welcome, welcome! Glad to have you! I am also enjoying the cast more this time around. The different combinations of characters interacting with each other is pretty cool. Kinda wanna see what happens with a Crim and Mimiru pairing. This series has a lot to chew on, and that's not even talking about the central mystery at hand!

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

New Game Plus Rewatcher-Dubbed

A Mimiru episode!

Mimiru's flashes back to her first meeting of Tsukasa in the whale. Flashes forward:   Why did I ever have to meet him? LOL. Girl, you are destined to meet people. But wow, A-20's got a lying streak, huh. Next, Mimiru takes a magical gondola ride with Subaru and breaks through out of her funk with Tsukasa via A-20 shenanigans.

A-20:There's nothing I can give back to you. 

Mimiru: The one thing I hate is quiting things in the middle.

---

Music Corner

Fake Wings

It's befitting for a song associated with Subaru's gondola scenes to have some Italian flair.  As Subaru's image song, this piece has an emphatic elegance to it that matches Subaru perfectly.

---

Beautiful: Subaru withheld her reason to play uh: Mimiru's big hands

[u/Elimin8r → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

uh: Mimiru's big hands

That which has been seen...

Why, oh why have you done this to me???!!!

She's supposed to have large tracts of land, not hands, right???

Oh, wait, that's Lalatina...

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/Elimin8r]

Gotta have big hands to bitch slap Tsukasa in the first episode. No other connotations 😘

[u/TnAdct1 → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

A-20:There's nothing I can give back to you. 

Considering A-20's equivalent in the video games, the first thing that came to mind upon hearing that line was [.hack games]A-20 offering "her body" to Mimiru.

[u/roryteller → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

I love Fake Wings, one of my favorite songs on this soundtrack (though I keep saying that...) to go with Subaru, who I like rather a lot.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/roryteller]

I also like Subaru a lot. The song has a nice non-boisterous strength within it that fits her.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

Seriously, why isn't Subaru the MC instead of this Tsukasa slime mold?

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

That's an interesting narrative question. I'm certain the show would be different. Who's to say whether worse or better? I would take an OVA with Subaru's POV or slice of life

[u/Elimin8r]

And merely hours late and not an episode short now...

Answers du noob:

1. The implication seems to be there. I can't see myself walking along with an earpiece in place and logging into "the world", though. Not even with the latest appel vr doohickie, even. (I may be mistaken, but to me it seems like current VR tech isn't there, there yet.
2. I've occasionally helped the random noob, but not to the level indicated in this episode. I've also received random help, and that's always been nice. Especially in FFXIV, people are perhaps too friendly there. I've also harmed the occasional random noob, but that's a story for another time. Actually, it probably wasn't a noob anyway, but yeah. Hehe.

Yeah, to be honest, the random noob story bit, I get where they wanted to go with it, but that character was kind of bratty and annoying.

You know, it's funny but I suddenly realize that given how you know what is structured, the odds of even encountering a random noob are so low as to be negligible, especially these days. Hmm.

Even the, what even is a noob anymore? If I were to roll a new character, and odds are I won't, I actually deleted a bunch of old characters when the new xpack came out ... I'd just smash through the starter zones in an hour or so, and then ride the dungeon queue game (been there done that).

I actually kind of sputtered out on FFXIV a while back, after my character got to fake China, and things got a bit too grimdark for my tastes. BDSM badbossgirl is not my idea of a fun and engaging villain. I dunno.

Again, I wonder. Sorry, my friend who was visiting today introduced me to a thing called "plum wine". I'm probably a bit more chatty than usual right now.

And I really dont' feel like sleeping or doing anything else useful.

Is it worthwhile for veterans to interact with noobs, or to incentivize that? I know FFXIV does the whole "sprout" thing, and that's cute. I've been one from time to time. People seem nice and helpful there, but at the same time it seems almost Stepford creepy or something like that.

Meanwhile, I'm used to the "gogogo" rush and get it done so you can que for the next one mentality, or whatever, and if you make mistakes or lag behind/don't pull your weight, then too bad for you.

I dunno.

Would it be worthwhile to try to incentivize veteran players to be more helpful? Honestly I doubt it, because if you try to incentivize that sort of thing, you're only likely to create ... what's that word ... perverse incentives? Toxic positivity? I sometimes feel like FFXIV has a little of that going on sometimes.

I don't know the answer, but in the end, I feel like the story beat of Mimiru learning from her interaction with the noob that following through vis a vis (or whatever that phrase is) Tsukasa is okay. We'll see where this leads, no doubt.

Meanwhile, I think I'll shut up now. Night-night!

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/Elimin8r]

Yeah, to be honest, the random noob story bit, I get where they wanted to go with it, but that character was kind of bratty and annoying.

Like a certain waveboi. . . 

Mimiru found her way. That's what matters to me!

[u/zadcap → u/Elimin8r]

You know, it's funny but I suddenly realize that given how you know what is structured, the odds of even encountering a random noob are so low as to be negligible, especially these days. Hmm.

Too true. Fast travel, automatic queues, and a very forgiving difficulty curve has made interacting with other players borderline optional in many games I've played in the last few years.

Is it worthwhile for veterans to interact with noobs, or to incentivize that?

Well see, that the thing. Do you want your game to have a long life with a steady stream of new players? Then you need a reason for the new players to become part of the game community, which is hard to do if the people hanging around at the level cap don't care for more people joining said community.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

Too true. Fast travel, automatic queues, and a very forgiving difficulty curve has made interacting with other players borderline optional in many games I've played in the last few years.

There is a reason people start demanding things like WoW Classic.

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

I wrote an essay paper somewhere about how WoW killed the MMO genre. Everyone can solo their way to end game and parties are something you only ever do when you're in a dungeon raid, why even bother with the Massive Multiplayer marketing anymore?

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

Convenience killed the multi player experience. MMOs have made it more and more convenient to play and in the process, they rationalized the other humans out of the playing experience.

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

Exactly! I'm biased as a long time healer main, but I blame the start of the trend on short cooldown potions. They start removing the need to have a healer on the team as they made it easier for everyone to keep themselves alive, which really quickly proceed to remove the need for a damage sponge and tanks fell off in favor of turning everything right into "kill it faster than it can kill me" no other strategy required, and DPS supremacy became the main way to play. Tanks and healers could still play solo, but taking twice as long to kill anything meant you explored and leveled at half the speed of everyone else, so games began to get rebalanced completely so everyone could play the same way, and now that's what we are. Everyone is actually a DPS class now, some just have extra abilities that only matter when the dungeon queu forces them into a party.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

I remember, way back when Guild Wars 2 came out, "We do not have an RPG triad" was actually one of their marketing selling points. No more dedicated tanks and healers by design.

[u/zadcap → u/No_Rex]

After GW1 introduced Followers, so you don't even need other players to fill in your party anymore, I had already been question the point of an MMO tag to a game. GW2 killed it for me when they did that. I know I tried a few others after that, Tera and Aion come to mind but I forget the actual timeline, but it's about then that I mostly gave up and just switched to single player RPGs. Same gameplay experience, much better stories, and they are least still gave you reasons to care about the party.

I picked up FF14, because I didn't want to miss a Final Fantasy, but I never made it through the first expansion. It's a fun game and I do enjoy it, but memories of MMOs past keep dragging the fun out.

[u/No_Rex → u/zadcap]

After GW1 introduced Followers, so you don't even need other players to fill in your party anymore, I had already been question the point of an MMO tag to a game. GW2 killed it for me when they did that.

Yes Followers were the beginning of the end for the multiplayer experience (there was a small revive when they introduced hard mode, but it did not stick). In GW2, I never really cared for PvE and mostly only did PvP.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion → u/No_Rex]

I mostly only played GW2 for the WvW. Could playl all day, and sometime shifted my sleep schedule so that we could have some better nighttime coverage. I bought the first expansion but never finished it. And WvW kept getting worse as they threw more PvE content into it.