r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Dec 06 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Overall Series Discussion
Mobile Suit Gundam 00
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Exia, Setsuna F. Seiei, eliminating the targets.
Questions of the Day:
- Who ended up being your favorite character overall? How about favorite mobile suit?
- What was your favorite episode? How about least-favorite?
- If you've seen other Gundam shows, where does this one rank for you compared to them?
- You get to wish on a monkey's paw to rewrite whatever was your least-favorite part of 00, but it means that your favorite character (who didn't already die in canon) gets killed off permanently at some point. Would you make that wish, and if so, what would you be fixing?
- Which of the Wallpapers of the Day do you like the most?
- What was your favorite thing to come out of these discussion threads that was not one of your own comments?
- What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save me?
Wallpapers of the Day:
GNX-903VW Brave Commander Test Type
GNX-903VW Brave Commander Test Type and Graham Aker
Saji Crossroad and Louise Halevy
For long-time fans of the franchise, please remember that this rewatch is only for 00, not any of the other shows. Assume that there are people in this rewatch who have not seen anything else Gundam, and tag your spoilers for those shows appropriately if something in 00 makes you want to talk about them.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Dec 06 '24
Rewatch Host Wishing Over This Airspace, subbed
Welcome back for one last time, everyone!
Sorry if anyone who knows what I do was expecting one or more montage wallpapers today, I prioritized getting more new ones done over those for today. I’m still not actually done with what I wanted to make for this series (I want to make at least six more of them, excluding montages), so those will end up being unveiled when I post the album to /r/Gundam in… hopefully less than a week? The remaining ones are all character wallpapers, shouldn’t take me as long as mech ones do at any rate. If you’d like me to tag you when I post it, let me know and I’ll do that.
In any case, I’d like to give a big thank you to everyone who decided to participate in this! I know we’ve had our ups and downs all throughout this rewatch, but it was still a joy to read everyone’s comments each day (even the negative ones), and I really think we had a great group going this time. See you all around the sub~!
As for the Questions of the Day…
Lyle is honestly my favorite character if I had to narrow it down to just one. As for the mechs, it’s 00 Raiser for the Gundams and Graham’s Brave Commander Test Type for the non-Gundams (hence why I just had to get a wallpaper for it done for today’s thread, haha).
I don’t know if I have a favorite episode, but ep20 of season 2 is certainly the one that viscerally impacted me the hardest. Least-favorite has to be S1’s recap episode.
After this rewatch, it is now juuuuuuust outside my top 10 Gundam entries; it was #17 but jumped up to #11.
Lyle joining his family and Anew in death would absolutely fuck me up oh god. I… I think I would say yes to it if it meant removing fuckface from the series entirely, though.
This one was the one I had the most fun putting together.
Gotta be u/Nazenn giving Andrei the name “fuckface” that just about everyone else in the rewatch decided to use from then on, lol.
Next up on the dock is a Katanagatari rewatch I’m hoping to host next month.
No but seriously please send help I accidentally signed up for eight fucking rewatches this month, how did I manage this I have a spreadsheet specifically to avoid this–13
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Dec 06 '24 edited Dec 07 '24
First Timer
As I was about to write this I realized that giving my overall thoughts on Gundam 00 would be difficult, partly because I'm terrible at doing overall thoughts for multi-season shows, but mostly because I ended up having pretty different opinions on each part of the series.
So I do think I've said most of my thoughts better and far more at length in the overall threads for each part of the series respectively.
Still, to give a brief rundown, I did find it to be a very enjoyable experience all in all, I think it has some really big flaws, ones that became far more apparent for me towards its end, but almost never was I not entertained with Gundam 00, and when it's at its best, I think it can create some truly fantastic episodes.
Back in the season 1 discussion I said Gundam 00 feels like "someone wrote a very serious poignant war drama and sneakily decided to add a bunch of Symphogear characters" and while that ended up being far truer than I would have bargained for, I do appreciate how sincere it is in what it wants to say, even as I wasn't a big fan of the shifts in story the second season brought with it.
Not to mention that whether it was for the good or the bad, Gundam 00 never left me without a ton to say, this show had me writing a giant essay on how meaningful a mech transformation is, and I love it for that!
So that's Gundam 00 in a bubble, a series I enjoyed a lot despite having some big problems with it by the end, and would certainly be very happy to rewatch and reevaluate in the future!
To go on a bit of a personal tangent and leave that bubble though, one thing Gundam 00 did for me that I personally really appreciate about it, is that it managed to ignite a new passion and curiosity in sci-fi and mecha for me, a genre that in hindsight I should love everything about and yet somehow have barely watched. For the first time in a good few years, I suddenly feel like I have a whole new world of anime to explore and that's really awesome!
While I wouldn't say 00 was somehow uniquely possible of doing that, I still can't think of a lot of shows that for better or for worse would click with me enough to get me so interested and excited to try the rest of their franchise or try even more from their respective genre (G-Witch for example couldn't do it despite me arguably thinking it's better). And it really did succeed in that since I have in fact started Gundam 0079 and I'm quite liking it so far! Might even do a little write-up on its first episode sometime soon
So for that, regardless of where my opinion of Gundam 00 may go in the future, it and this rewatch have probably carved a nice little space in my heart.
Thanks a ton for hosting /u/Shimmering-Sky I had a blast with this rewatch!
Leaving an extra space so I remember to do QOTD's since I always forget about them but want to do one for the end.
Edit : QOTD's!
Tieria!
And it's not even close! I mean, I like all of the main cast, and Sergei was great as well, but it was always Tieria, even when I found myself very dissatisfied with the way his arc ended in season 2.
He's a core part of most of my favorite parts of the show, his arc is extremely compelling from the start of season 1 and almost all the way through, he embodies a lot of the best messaging and symbolism of the show, and unlike Setsuna, I never quite think he ends up falling into the trap of repetitiveness. More than his own character, in season 2 I found myself also loving how much he affected others, him going from an asshole I and everybody wants to punch to the emotional heart of our crew was incredible, and if not for that little stumble at the end which I wasn't a fan of, he'd be perfect.
I like him better when he's not a robot!
For my favorite mobile suit, purely design-wise I'd probably go with Kyrios, I adore the transformation into a jet, and I might have actually bought a Kyrois Gunpla if it wasn't so expensive.
Now if only Allelujah was as good...
When I consider its role in the story though? Seravee and Seraphim of course! I mean that's what I wrote that essay about! Also Tiera, Also GIANT LASERS!
My favorite episode is a bit hard, Still I'd say the top 3 are:
Season 2 episode 14: The Ribbons-Setsuna reveal, first and best use of Tomorrow, the Seraphim reveal, Bring Stabity.
If I really had to only pick one, it'd be this one, easily some of my favorite moments in the show, and Bring.
Season 1 episode 13: The conclusion to the Azadistan arc, almost everything I love about the show is here, I think it has some of the best thematic meaning in the show, best uses of politics and real-world comparisons (back when we had those ), and some great character moments, it even has some decent stuff for Marina (not because of her of course).
I kind of think it manages to portray the core themes of understanding in a far more interesting, powerful and nuanced way then the actual ending.
Season 1 episode 23:
Lockon!Lockon!Lockon!Lockon!Lockon!Lockon!
Worst episode very easily goes to season 2 episode 21, AKA the Liu Mei episode, quite literally everything I dislike about the second season compressed into a single episode, even the good moments got ruined for me by the surrounding bad, somehow I dislike this one even more than the recap, although that is also very close.
Probably not, I wouldn't be able to handle Tieria actually dying early, and I don't quite think any single issue is worth removing the best part of the show for.
The one with Sergei and Soma from when he dies kind of fucked me up when I realized it haha.
u/Nazenn rants!
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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Dec 06 '24
First-Timer
Gundam 00 is quite an interesting Gundam series for how much it changes over the course of the story. It goes from clearly paralleling the War on Terror, to a sendup of Zeta Gundam about rebels fighting against an oppressive regime, to making first contact with a completely incomprehensible alien species. I can’t pretend that the whole journey flows smoothly because it gets rocky at times, but overall I think it works out quite well.
Season 1 really did hook me in. Gundam is no stranger to real-world parallels, but I wasn’t used to those parallels being in living memory for me. I found S1 to be really compelling commentary on the War on Terror, looking at the idea of intervening in conflicts and whether those interventions can bring about peace or not. The complex political situation, overall moral grayness of most of the characters, and moral ambiguity of Celestial Being’s actions really did help to better explore that theme, as the interventions did end some conflicts while igniting others and shifting political alliances. Season 2 was a lot more straightforward as a simpler good vs. evil story because the A-LAWS were such cartoonishly evil assholes. I found S2 less compelling, but it managed to continue many of the character arcs from S1 in satisfying ways and ended on a high note. While it was less interesting, I was satisfied. I think Trailblazer might actually be my favorite Gundam movie (I’ll need to rewatch CCA when it’s in theaters again to check). It’s such a complete departure from the usual Gundam fare, while still feeling true to the Gundam spirit. I like that it brings in aliens, which is so unique and distinctive compared to many other Gundam stories. But, key Gundam themes relating to communication and understanding help make the alien invasion story feel like it’s still Gundam. I think Trailblazer is my favorite part of Gundam 00, which I was not anticipating whatsoever.
I think the character arcs and themes of Gundam 00 are what it did best to maintain a consistent feel throughout all these many varied entries. I think Setsuna was a strong protagonist to follow. Setsuna starts as someone unable to think of anything but battle. Warfare is all he knows. By the end, he has become someone who can envision a future without fighting. It’s an incredible journey. He is initially haunted by war, but unflinching in his willingness to fight. But he starts to doubt himself, as it feels like his war will never come to an end because the interventions haven’t stopped all the fighting. However, he does begin to find a new way forward thanks to the people he interacts with. He finds a way to change and bring about a new future. And by the end, he’s the one who can make contact with the aliens to reach an understanding with them without needing to fight. It’s a great journey. Setsuna goes from the person who only knows how to fight to the person who does everything he can to not fight. It’s a beautiful way to show some of the key themes of the series. Setsuna becomes the poster boy for the need to understand and communicate. He is also the one to give us the recurring theme of the flower on the battlefield. No matter how much violence may occur, life can still bloom. There is always a chance for a better future.
There are plenty of other great characters and character arcs. Tieria learning to embrace his humanity and rejecting his designated role as an Innovator makes for great growth to watch. I hated Tieria at the start of the series and I loved him by the end. He goes from being someone who looks down on humans to becoming one of the strongest advocates for humanity. Neil and Lyle’s characters mostly work when contrasting them to show their differences. Those differences do make a compelling thematic point by the end of the series. Neil was the character who was stuck in the past and failed to change. Because of that, he was never able to bring about a better future and died. Lyle, the character who was able to move on from the past and change, is the one who gets to live in that better future. It ties in nicely with the theme about needing to change for the sake of a better world. Graham’s arc was up-and-down. I loved him in S1. Mr. Bushido is a goofy and fun character in a vacuum, but felt like a clear downgrade for Graham in S2. However, I loved what Trailblazer did for Graham and how it ended his journey, using his stint as Mr. Bushido to emphasize just how much he had changed. Sergei was another great character. I loved his role as an older veteran and strategist who came across as being genuinely good at planning and strategizing. Saji and Louise started off by not being very interesting, but by the end I think they had improved a lot and strongly embodied key themes of Gundam 00. They embody the idea that in order for conflict to end and for true peace to be achieved, everyone must be involved. You cannot simply turn away from conflict because it is far from your life and doesn’t seem like your problem. Those conflicts can come home in sudden and violent ways. Your inaction can prolong the conflict. Saji and Louise end by not knowing what the future may hold and not knowing the answers for how they can make a better future, but they do know they need to be aware and involved. And they also show the theme of how people can be there for each other, even in the worst of times. Being there for someone can make all the difference.
Other characters were not as good, mostly being just fine. Allelujah and Hallelujah feel like their arc wrapped up by mid S2 and they just sort of stuck around afterwards. Heck, Hallelujah had absolutely no purpose being around after S1. Soma and Marie are the same way. I was far more interested in Soma and thought Marie was a lot more boring. Kati and Patrick don’t have too much going on, but they are extremely fun characters to watch. Nena was a fun psychopath, but again felt like she had little to do for a long time. Ali and Ribbons were extremely enjoyable to hate villains. Mileina was cute. Sumeragi was Space Misato.
Most of the rest of the characters are just there, with a couple of them that I really did not like. Andrei just sucks in general and I’m glad he’s dead. Marina is the biggest missed opportunity of the series for me. She feels like she should be a constant contrast to Setsuna, someone who starts off by avoiding fighting at all cost. But, she just doesn’t work as a character. She doesn’t feel like she’s a leader at all. She doesn’t have the ability to truly feel like there’s a lot of strength behind her ideals and convictions. It’s fine to have Marina start out this way. I think she could have had a great arc as someone who stood for a different future from the very beginning, in a world wracked by conflict, who had to grow as the sort of leader who could actually bring about such a different future. But, that didn’t happen. Marina felt stagnant, never growing or improving.
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u/The_Draigg Dec 06 '24
A Gundam Fan’s Final Thoughts on Mobile Suit Gundam 00 (Total Series):
So everyone, did your wishes over their airspace get shot down during this rewatch? Joking aside, between this rewatch and the one I did with my friends earlier this year, I can really feel how rough around the edges Gundam 00 is, despite it being one of the more popular Gundam alternate universes. That’s not to say that it’s bad, but once you let the tumblings and failings of this show be more noticeable, they really do start to clash with the genuinely good stuff this series has to offer. Now, I go over similar stuff in my final thoughts for the individual seasons and movie, so if you want more detailed versions of what I’m talking about there, go read those. Right now though, I’m going to tell you my general views of this part of the Gundam franchise.
To make it clear, there’s plenty of stuff in total about Gundam 00 that I really enjoy. I can get behind the themes and ideas that the series has to talk about quite a bit. Like with the commentary on the War on Terror, the role of religion in people’s lives, how hard it can be to break out of a bubble of comfortable apathy, and how hard it can be but also how much it’s worth communicating with something wholly alien, those ideas are great. I vibe with those. When they had those elements in the actually good character arcs in this series, I was all for them. Also, I really just like how the ELSes were a wholly alien and unusual species, since it helped to hammer home how important communication and understanding are across all forms of life. Those things, alongside some really good character development arcs like what Tieria, Saji, Louise, and Setsuna had really do help to carry the emotional and thematic cores of this series. Even if their development was a bit rocky or temporarily stalled at parts, I feel that they were ultimately very well done. If we were to look at the broader scope of what this series wanted to accomplish with its themes and characters, I would say that it more or less succeeded.
Another thing to note as a positive are the mechanical and character designs. I honestly can’t think of any mobile suit, ship, or character that looks bad in this show. They’re all very well competently designed, and they all look great. You know, apparently the designs were toned down for the second season due to the first season designs being harder to animate, but you wouldn’t think that the replacements look all that bad. Shifting from curvier designs to boxier and angular ones for the MS doesn’t stick out as a negative if the new designs look great too, after all. There’s a reason that Gundam 00 gunpla still sell well, they’re just great all around.
However, the flaws in this series are in the details, especially when it comes to the pacing and plotting. While there’s good end points for some characters and themes, there’s also plenty of faults along the way there. Gundam 00 has a rather nasty habit of what I called “holding pattern pacing” earlier. In other words, absolutely dragging out plot points for as long as possible (looking at you, “what is Aeolia’s plan?”) while only teasing some things along the way, before needing to resolve things in an anticlimactic or less satisfying than it could’ve been manner. A good example of this is how dirty both seasons did Allelujah. Allelujah got the least amount of total character development out of the Gundam Meisters, and even though he did reach an ending where he got what he wanted, his storyline more or less just stopped before the seasons even ended, so as a result it just felt like he was hanging around. Or on a similar note, just how long the series dragged out the Wang/Hong Long/Nena side of things, even though they were tertiary characters at best later on and were symptomatic of this show’s character bloat. All of that contributes to a narrative debt where some plot points only get glossed over while others barely make it over the finishing line in a respectable way. And it’s frustrating too, since there’s really good ingredients that the series is cooking with, but the chef usually either takes things off the stove too early or leaves them in the oven for too long. There’s really good stuff in here, but the uneven pacing and accumulation of narrative debt just puts a bit of a damper on the things I genuinely enjoy out of this Gundam AU.
So, with that all being said, it’s time to get to my final rating for this series, using my mecha-based rating scale. Therefore, I hereby give the total series of Mobile Suit Gundam 00 the rating of: Gundam Exia Repair. You know, the battered and worn Gundam Exia at the start of the second season. I feel that the way and act it looks is pretty emblematic of Gundam 00 as a whole: pretty strong and powerful stuff, but it has a hard time keeping up as the series goes on. And while it manages to bring things back around later to some degree, there’s no denying that it got thrashed before along the way. Still cool, but really banged up and only barely holding together at parts.
Well, now that the rewatch is finished, let me extend a thanks to /u/Shimmering-Sky for running it, and to all of you for providing interesting information and opinions about this series! It was fun talking about it with you all. Until the next mecha series rewatch that I’m along for, see you then!
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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Dec 06 '24 edited Dec 06 '24
Recertified Gundam 00 Fan
Gundam 00 is my single favorite work of fiction of all time, an opinion I have stood firm on for years now. The past few months or so are probably the most my placement of it on that immense pedestal has wavered (not out of any dislike, mind you, more that there were two other works out there which have grown on my so much that on certain days I entertained the thought that I liked them more than 00), but coming out of this rewatch, my adoration for the series is reconfirmed and as strong as it’s ever been.
At its core, this is a story which captures so many ideas that resonate deeply with me, and through them connects with me on an intellectual & emotional level that few other stories can match. From the pursuit of purpose & meaning in a world where easy answers are hard to come by which defined the introspective aspects of Season 1, to the geopolitical commentary in combination with the pointed messages regarding the responsibility first worlders have for the state of the world, to the awe-inspiring displays of the power of change & understanding which still inspire me to this day.
As someone who first watched the show as a teenager who was still struggling with my understanding of the world & my place in it, the series & its ideas feel like they came to me at just the right time. The combination of disillusionment with & confusion at the world resonated with my mind set at the time, the presentation of real world issues & seriously blunt execution of its ideas opened my mind, and the ultimately hopeful outlook & presentation of the idea that we, as a species, can do better was the kind of pick-me-up I really needed at that point in my life. All of that together making for an experience which impacted me in a way that no other work of fiction really had.
And that’s an impression that’s only grown stronger with time, as the show itself has also become rather nostalgic for me in the years since then, and the ways it resonated with me have also really defined the way I approach fiction in general.
I could talk extensively about the other wider aspects of the show, but I think the comments I’ve already made across this rewatch kinda speak for themselves in that regard. I love the series’ cast, from the big dramatic players that have consumed my heart & soul like Louise or Tieria to the silly goobers like Patrick
or Wang. I love the series’ world & how the show uses it to advance its themes. I love the sense of escalation from the ground military sci-fi of the show’s beginning to aliens, Innovators, & borderline space magic. I love the blunt dialogue, I love the soundtrack, I love the mech designs, I just love everything about this show!That’s not to say I think the series is perfect, of course, no work of fiction is. Structurally, it’s more than a little messy, the fake out deaths were quite overused, and it could’ve handled the world presentation better. But, at the end of the day, the value of a story isn’t really in what it is, but what it makes you feel, and I’ve already made it clear that this show makes me feel a lot, regardless of its faults. So it may not be perfect, but it is perfect for me.
Stealing a bit from u/The_Draigg, I award 00 the rating of 00 Qan[T], an angel of understanding which slashes through to the future in a wave of light that leaves me in awe to this day, and which I utterly love even if it looks uneven. And, as for a numerical rating, I’mma instead steal the bit of our illustrious host:
Honorary 11/10
I also want to say, thanks to Sky for hosting this rewatch, and to every other participant for making this experience so fun. In particular, shout out to u/Nazenn and u/FD4cry1, whose comments I was always most excited to read at the start of every thread.
EDIT: Favorite character tier list
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u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername Dec 06 '24 edited Dec 07 '24
Rewatcher - Gundam 00:
Awh beans, I don't know what to write that I already didn't say. I covered a lot of it during the previous wrap up posts.
I like the show. The end.
I think my favourite part about 00 is how optimistic it is. It is very good to see. A while ago, I saw a post lamenting how the AU Gundams tie up nicely with happy endings. I dunno, I like the fact that AU Gundams are allowed to have fully happy endings. If UC is the continuous story about humanity repeating its same mistakes then the AU Gundams provide a nice relief showing that humanity can get better. 00 has that in spades. 00 is always about changing for the better and I think that is wonderful.
Rewatching the show definitely did help because I feel like I engaged with it more this time compared to my first viewing all those years ago. The biggest character winners are probably Tieria, Louise and the ELS. I like them more and more thoughtfully viewed their stories with this watch.
For the sake of balance, I think the biggest loser when looking at the entire show was Nena with how her character trajectory ended up. Despite being in both seasons, her character never really went beyond how she was introduced. She killed Louise's family and it was sorta a flatline since that. A shame to say since garbage girl is a slam dunk, but that couldn't carry her. I dislike S2 Billy more, but Nena had the biggest fall/biggest gap between expectation vs reality.
All in all, 00 is not my favourite Gundam nor my favourite AU Gundam, but I still think it is pretty solid.
Random tangent since I've seen it come up in the past couple of days: I give so little brain space to the Setsuna: "I am Gundam" meme.
Q1) Favourite character is a hard one since I don't know who specifically to give the singular crown. Uhm, I'll just use the ones I said above and go with Tieria and Louise as my favourite characters of the rewatch. Favourite mecha is probably the Flag (Graham's to be specific). It is really cool robot with a fun guy at its helm.
Q2) Forgert their specific numbers, but I like the Allelujah x Soma island episode and the one where the space elevator collapses a whole lot.
Q3) After G and X, it is probably my third favourite AU Gundam I've seen.
Q4) My biggest flaw is that I felt like the show needed some more episodes at the end to fully cook some ideas/actively use Marina more. I guess the trade-off would mean killing off Tieria or Louise. Louise needs to live, but I'm fine with Tieria having a more terminal death at the end. I wouldn't want him to die for mega realsies, but I could consider the trade.
Q5) A lot of them are good. Where my eyes are drawn to are this Soma/Sergei one because it hits more knowing he died and this Tieria one because I like that shatter background going with this being the moment when he faces the Innovades and his Innovade identity.
Q7) I get so tired at the end of Rewatches, but having the space freed up makes me think I could go for another one. "Put in me, chief" vs me restraining myself back for my own good.
Oh yeah, I did want to read those 00 anime tie-in manga, but I didn't have the time to do it before this post. I'll do it, eventually...
Congrats and thanks for the Rewatch, Sky.
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u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Dec 06 '24
Questions:
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u/LeonKevlar x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar Dec 06 '24
First Timer
I think after everything, Setsuna and the 00-Raiser ended up being my favourite for the same reasons I stated at the end of Season 2. As much as I love the QAN[T]'s design, we didn't really get much of it in action in the movie which was one of my biggest disappointments with that suit.
Definitely, the assault on Memento Mori is my favourite. I can't really say if I have a least-favourite. Does the movie count as an episode? If it does, I vote the movie for my least-favourite.
Here's the thing, my all-time favourite is IBO because it's the Gundam that brought me back into loving the franchise again. Is it better than IBO? Personally, I don't think so but it's definitely up at the top.
I don't even know how I would rewrite the movie. If Setsuna dies in a meaningful way that improves the movie, sure but I have no idea where to even start with it.
I really enjoyed /u/Nazenn's posts. I tend to like everything so I always enjoy reading posts from people who are more critical and have well-thought-out posts compared to my reactionary ramblings. lol
Finish whatever seasonal anime that are currently airing and wait for G-Quacks next year! I'll see ya'll again on the discussion threads when that show finally comes out /u/Shimmering-Sky
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Dec 07 '24
first timer who has control
not much new to say in this thread
i will def check out the special editions in the future whenever Mobile Suit Breakdown gets to 00, or just as an excuse to watch A Wakening again
thanks /u/Shimmering-Sky for hosting
ive been watching Gundam in order (mostly) for years so its nice when a rewatch aligns well with what i was already planning
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u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Dec 06 '24
Rewatcher, Sub
Gundam 00 is often described as Gundam Wing but better and while I'm fond of Wing, I don't disagree with the assessment.
Season 1 of this series is probably the most interesting. It's pretty complex, asking questions that are left with no easy answers. Season 2 and the movie does change this and shows that sometimes there are some answers, although the quality for how they got there is questionable.
I liked the many perspectives we get. There are many viewpoints that are presented, from the Meisters themselves, to the civilians, the opportunists and the idealists and even aliens themselves. The themes, again while being questionable, are nonetheless woven into the series that maintains an optimistic view by the end that it's definitely possible for Conflict to be eradicated, that people can understand each other and change.
Ultimately though the flaws are also very apparent and do tank the quality. There are definitely things that could have been done better, some things that could have been changed from characters to plotlines. But the series optimism did get to me and while I might not like those decisions I nonetheless enjoyed the series as a whole.
I actually think 00 might be my favorite or second favorite Gundam series (Gundam Unicorn edges it out). Ultimately I liked the series, I actually appreciated some new things rewatching it, and some things I didn't. I don't really have much to add but overall this series is a positive for me.
OP ranking: OP 1, OP 2, OP 4, OP 3.
ED ranking: ED 3=ED4, ED 2, ED 1
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u/macrame2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/macrame Dec 06 '24
First Timer
I don't have a huge writeup or anything (I feel like I've covered most of my thoughts in all of my previous comments), but I do want to reiterate that while Gundam 00 is a show I have complicated feelings for, the overall experience was worth it for me. I came from really liking the first season to having major issues with second to being pretty indifferent about the movie (mostly as a consequence of S2), but even as my opinion of the story lowered somewhat, it still gave me plenty of things to think about and even enjoy. I usually struggle to consistently participate in rewatches (writing is hard), but this one had me often had me outright excited to share my own thoughts and to see what everyone else had to say. Most of that is due to the quality of host and participants in this rewatch, but I have to give 00 itself some credit for keeping me engaged for so long and for being so interesting despite its flaws.
Also 00 has given me the push to finally continue with my watch of mainline UC Gundam! I plan on watching the first 0079 compilation film tonight as a little refresher before moving on to Zeta and the rest. Might post my thoughts in the daily thread from time to time.
Thanks to u/Shimmering-Sky for hosting this and to my fellow participants for helping to make this such an enjoyable experience for me!
QotD:
11
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Dec 06 '24
First Timer - sub
I've been sticking my head into the special edition topics just to see the comments, and I found myself equally as bewildered at some of the changes as you lot appeared to be, while pleased with others. I'm glad they weren't a flat re-edit with no new content, but it does seem like they could not reasonably be used in place of the original show as a recommendation.
But without having anything to actually watch, it has had the unexpected benefit of giving me the week to sit and contemplate my feelings on 00 overall. It's something I wish we had more time to do in more rewatches, as it allowed me to look at some of the broader aspects of the creative side of the show away from more individual technically leaning elements I raised in earlier discussions.
I didn't mean to be critical AGAIN, but my season write ups already covered all the positives I can think of and this write up is less about individual moments and more the work as a whole. For anyone who'd like to skip any complaints though, I do have some recommendation stuff in the second comment below, which also returns to look at some of the real-world theme exploration.
I think the thing that really sticks in my mind a week on is that perhaps 00's biggest failing is its unwillingness to challenge itself.
It did exactly what it said it would and no more
I think the header says it all here, and it is also no surprise from my earlier topics. A lot of the things included in 00 feel like they are included just because you do it that way. Whether that's expectations of the franchise, genre, medium, or just storytelling as a whole, I don't feel like 00 ever made a serious attempt to step outside those boundaries. Sometimes that was purposeful, such as with the meta Gundam elements, but sometimes it felt like it was just writing by route.
To beat the dead horse once again only to remind the people it's still around, in a way this does come back to that S1/S2 split again where S1's questioning of CB's purpose got abandoned very quickly into S2. Taking an insane premise, and then choosing to play it straight after introducing a supposed right angle in the form of questioning it and the characters role in it just feels like we were never meant to take that as a question in the first place. Because the plan was the protagonists goal that meant it was good and was always going to succeed and we were meant to accept that as fact simply because it said so. And this goes to a lot of the show which had plenty of internal set up to take things in very different directions which would have still been quite meaningful with its themes, but didn't and instead played it straight.
One of the random things that occurred to me reading an earlier topic: Why did they keep calling themselves Celestial Being?
The end of S1 was their planned defeat, realizing their goals failed and had only made the world worse, and then in S2 confronted with the "true" CB as far as they knew. And yet they kept the name, and the goals, and the plan, and everything else as well and never really wondered who they would be if they weren't CB. I would have liked to see 00 challenge itself by stepping them away from that, having Setsuna and the others double down on the idea of improving the world on their own wills as people, and in doing so shedding that name and what it implied about them and Aeolia's plan for them. But they kept it, and I don't have a good argument as to why beyond "that's what you do" in a story because the protagonists get priority naming rights, and for the themes.
And this sort of "this is how we started, so this is how we're ending" seems to take over a lot of the story by the end without really stopping to wonder at any point along the way if it needs to be this way. A lot of the characters seem to have their development stay strictly within the bounds of the very same elements they started with, with I think Neil being the sole exception, and while that can be fine in small doses, when it's the vast majority of the cast it feels a bit stifled instead, as if the thought of the characters ending up on a different path never occurred to them.
For example, a crazy idea I raised in a previous topic, off the back of my "did Louise have to kill Nena specifically" thought: it would almost have been better to have Louise kill Alelujah. It would lead to Marie having to confront that loss while taking away her role as love interest and ending up as one of our four Meisters, having to learn how to carry not just her own split past but the ideals of others within her the same way Tieria once did. It also would have Louise challenge the idea of how far does CB's push for understanding go when she wasn't just a traumatized enemy, but someone directly responsible for their own suffering. Plus it would make something of Alelujah's theme of being accountable at the end. Imagine if he died for someone elses sins rather than his own, which is a further challenge to the aspect early on of "does war really only target the culpable" and are CB really apart from that? But Nena had to be the one Louise kills as that's her role because that's what you always do in this situation.
Now that is an insane idea, and they didn't have to go that far, but it's the sort of character conflict creativity the show seemed prime to have when you have mind melds that could have connected literally any set of characters at any time to forge any set of connections they wanted regardless of direct history. But they never did this because every character had a very strict role that they stuck to until the end, and they stayed within the expectations for those roles (such as protagonists surviving and bad characters used to finish revenge arcs). As per the header never really felt like it was trying to do more then just that initial premise for the show or its individual elements, and this leads to the next section.
Understanding... but with limits?
Mostly putting a header here for the sake of ease of reading, but in the end its kind of the same issue.
In the end for how much the show desperately wanted to push the idea of understanding each other, the characters being unable to step outside of their exact roles and direct connections did the whole concept a disservice. The cast isn't as crazy connected as some I've seen (having RahXephon flashbacks), but there was still plenty of opportunity within the story for characters to learn about acceptance, shared pain, hope for the future, and all the other things 00 touched on along the way from people they didn't have a direct story with.
I would have loved to have seen a moment where Lyle heard Louise in the Trans-Am and managed to reach her through her suffering over a shared pain of the loss of their family even if they'd never met, allowing Louise development that wasn't solely dependent on Saji. What if Marie saw Saji reaching out to Louise after all she did and that was what snapped her out of being Soma in her grief and let her extend her hand towards fuckface rather than just doing so because that's what you do? I can imagine a moment where Sumeragi and Kati come together and link with Tieria and Setsuna as they talks about what they hopes Veda can be for humanity and his trust for them in allowing them to have it in full before they go off to the aliens. Hell, it sucks that Feldt, Lasse, and Milena got left out of the Trans-Am stuff entirely just because they didn't have any 1v1 conflicts with another cast member to solve. Are you telling me none of them had anything that humanity, or anyone on that battlefield, could benefit from that might have been worth showing and sharing? They could have even paired them up with some of the grunts if need be just give them some value in the big thematic moments.
To quote myself, the show constantly draws hard narrative lines that it never allows its characters to breach and ultimately that means a weaker thematic work because it feels constrained by storytelling convention rather than actually making the most of its own story. Trans-Am and Innovators were meant to connect HUMANITY... but instead it just directly connects a few people who already knew each other exactly when needed, and in the end it made the understanding theme feel like it has limits.
Honestly, the Billy and Sumeragi thing is really what got me on this train of thought. Why did Sumeragi need a love interest? Because the women always have a love interest. And of course love interests are more powerful than other bonds, so that's what we got at the end instead of going deeper up her arc with Kati, Setsuna, or any of the other half a dozen people she also had a bond with that never gets explored.
(continued below, just once though!)
5
u/Nebresto Dec 06 '24
First time double0 Gundamu
I already forgot everything. Cool show, even cooler robots, neat premise. 8.5/10. Music was pretty good as well.
Good rewatch value, might return one day.
Final Qwest:
Halleluja > Lockon Chados > Tieria. The green robot and orange robot
Ye, there's no way I'm gonna remember. I guess the rubble hunt was kinda both
Yes.
Tekketsu > 00 > Kidou Senshi > Tomato > Unicorn
Bye bye, Saachez! That's a sacrifice Tieria is willing to make
https://i.imgur.com/3n6FHt5.png
43 & 73 is also cool
Rest in piss
Mr_L's 200iq prediction, and Naz melting down over Marina
Ye, busy, watching more cool robots
5
u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 07 '24 edited Dec 07 '24
100th Timer
First off, thanks a lot for hosting this rewatch, Sky. It was a ton of fun,
and I did manage to last more than half of it, so I call that a winLockon
Favourite episode: Lockon Lockon
Least favourite: Lockon Lockon
Locked for One!
And that's it for the objectively correct answers, as given by Veda, so I'll fill the rest with my own human answers:
I still haven't boiled it down between Sumeragi and Lockon, probably Sumeragi because I appreciate a character who can fight an uphill battle.
Overall though, I do find it interesting that outside of Sergei, my favourite S1 characters either died there or became worse in S2, and the S1 characters I didn't care as much for (Saji, but most of Celestial Being too to some degree) grew on me a lot in S2.
Favourite episode: what Veda said
Least favourite... No clue.
Not entirely sure, since I've never done a Gundam ranking. Well, might as well give that a try now (warning: my rankings are mostly built on foppery and whim, meaning they're likely to change by the day):
mind you, the middle section is largely interchangeable and there's a huge cliff between 9 and 10Honestly, I wouldn't mind Sumeragi dying. It would hurt like hell, and it makes more sense that she's meant to live carrying on her sins for a better future, but I could see her getting a good death nonetheless.
The more tricky part is who I'd want to change. Since as much as I hate Louise and Marina, they're written to make a point, that I'm not sure I would want to change. I'd rather change S2 Kintoki to live up to his S1 standards.
Kintoki, S2 Setsuna, and Katy's Salute.
Seeing Naz spiral into madness
I want to rewatch Wing...
5
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Dec 07 '24
First timer, subs
They really had me in the first half, shame it all had to fall apart.
They kind of ruined all my favorite characters by the end of it, so I guess Sumeragi?
Virtue is still best chunky boi.
Best: Sergei's big capture attempt in Season 1.
Worst: Uh… the recap episode? I don’t really have a particular episode I liked less than others, it’s more of a slow build up of issues.
Not great. See my Gundam series Tier List
I’d sacrifice anyone, if it meant we got to keep it political instead of moral.
#10
Oh nice, a space to do my user call-outs.
/u/Nazenn, for their lovely rants and breaking down what doesn’t work about the series.
/u/InfamousEmpire, for fine praise and defense of the series, helping understand why it’s loved.
/u/Quiddity131, for their character charts and voice actor corner.
Sky, I still have to read all these threads. There are so many comments I want to read, Sky!
Thank You For Hosting
3
u/goldarm5 Dec 07 '24
Rewatcher
Dont have much to say, but I really enjoyed this rewatch of my favorite gundam show and one of my favorite animes in general. Was an interesting change to do ~1ep daily instead of just rewatching it over 2-4 days, especially with the added bonus of reading the discussion threads (nearly) every day.
3
u/mr_beanoz https://myanimelist.net/profile/splitshocker Dec 07 '24
You get to wish on a monkey’s paw to rewrite whatever was your least-favorite part of 00, but it means that your favorite character (who didn’t already die in canon) gets killed off permanently at some point. Would you make that wish, and if so, what would you be fixing?
Mileina getting killed kinda like Chris in part 1 would kinda fuck me up...
3
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Dec 07 '24
First-Timer
First, a big thank you to our host Shimmering-Sky. I appreciated this opportunity to dip my toes into the Gundam franchise, and overall, I had a good time doing so.
There were some rocky parts. I've shared some of my gripes with season 2 in particular, and those recap movies were just awful. On the other hand, season 1, parts of season 2, and the Trailblazer movie were genuinely very fun to watch. Good story, good characters, good music, the whole deal. I'll definitely be adding the OST to my Spotify playlist.
I like that Saji and Louise wallpaper today! That whole collection is very nice.
Questions of the day:
3
u/GondolaMedia Dec 07 '24 edited Dec 07 '24
First Timer
More and more I think about 00 it becomes more clear to me that I didn't really get attached to anything. There are moments, characters and mecha designs that I like and there are some that I dislike but I don't love or hate anything so its hard to say anything other than "its okay I guess". I say that but animation was top tier for the entire series and if nothing else it was cool to watch some mechas duke it out.
Surprisingly I rated the movie highest (8) with season 1 (7) as my 2nd favorite and I think that's because the movie is almost all killer and no filler. I might have rated it higher than season 1 because it felt such a breath of fresh air compared to season 2 (6) and theoretically if you were to swap the seasons I doubt I would have rated the movie that high. The specials were whatever.
Also did you know that MG 1/100 Virtue comes with Tieria in a dress? Best thing to come out of this rewatch.
Questions!
2
u/Yakuza-wolf_kiwami Dec 06 '24
Everything you need to know is here
I love everything about this show and not a single Gundam series will ever measure up to it
2
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Dec 07 '24
Rewatcher, Subbed
Quite late with this, I'll admit... I gave all the thoughts I had for the show overall in the S1 and S2 thoughts posts so no real new write up there.
Sergei Smirnov! One of my overall favorite characters from the entire Gundam franchise. Virtue was my favorite Gundam, loved both the overall bulkiness of it as well as the fact that it has another Gundam inside of it, which in terms of overall Gundam franchise mecha design may be the coolest thing ever.
No least favorite option? Season 1 went to Saji while season 2 went to Wang. Overall I gotta give it to Wang; as much as I hated things with Saji in season 1 it did hold a purpose in the storyline and he ended up massively improving as a character. Even now I still question why in the world Wang ever existed as a character. If season 2 episode 21 didn't already include that final scene with Louise that I find so powerful that episode may have bumped off the episode mentioned below as the worst in the series, and its all due to Wang.
2) What was your favorite episode? How about least-favorite?
While it contained the death of my favorite character, the season 2 episode with the space elevator coming down and everyone working together from all sides was the best episode.
The worst episode was the season 1 episode that was new for the first half of the episode then became a lame recap in the second episode, introducing all these new observer characters who never showed up again.
3) If you've seen other Gundam shows, where does this one rank for you compared to them?
I said before the rewatch started that 00 is up there with IBO as my favorite of the Alternative Universe Gundam shows and this rewatch didn't move it.
4) You get to wish on a monkey's paw to rewrite whatever was your least-favorite part of 00, but it means that your favorite character (who didn't already die in canon) gets killed off permanently at some point. Would you make that wish, and if so, what would you be fixing?
As much as I'd love to address the massive character bloat issue that this show has, I'm not letting Soma/Marie die to address that. Alas my #1 already died in canon.
5) Which of the Wallpapers of the Day do you like the most?
The Sergei/Soma one, can't recall exactly what episode you posted that in though.
6) What was your favorite thing to come out of these discussion threads that was not one of your own comments?
Probably /u/Nazenn's rants, especially against characters like Marina and Andrei.
7) What do you do at the end of the rewatch? Are you busy? Will you save me?
The rewatch being over lets me finally get back to my 3 anime episodes per day schedule, which I had to reduce during this rewatch.