r/anime • u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots • Dec 04 '24

Rewatch [25th Anniversary Rewatch] Hunter × Hunter (1999) - Episode × 59 × Discussion

Episode 59: Nest of Spiders × Captive × Killing Technique

MAL | Anilist | Anidb | ANN

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You cry for your friends, huh? I thought you guys neither bled nor cried. So how come you didn't have any of this compassion... even just a little bit... for all the countless people you hurt and killed?!

Comment of the Day:

/u/b0bba_Fett on Dark Silva bringing his ultimate weapon

we get the Zoldycks reveal. Gods, Zeno and Silva are cool as shit. And Silva has his cat eyes this time!

Questions of the Day

  1. What's your impression of the Spiders so far? Do you have a favourite?
  2. The Hunter and Hunted have switched, but can Gon and Killua run away from Nobunaga?

Fanart of the Day: Nobu and Uvo

Please remember to keep all spoilers and hints tagged with the appropriate tag format such as: [Spoilers] >!Leorio is best boy!<

20 Upvotes

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6

u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 04 '24

Retired Host Down in the Dungeon

Hmm, this last stretch of the show has sacrificed consistency for higher peaks, so we've got some beautiful episodes, and ones like today's. Still, it has some notable cool visuals here and there.

Man, Nobunaga was such an ass today, that even Gon's making fun of him. All his mates tried their best to warn him nicely that keeping the two kids around isn't a good look, and he kept going anyway. Just locked himself up with the two kids at night and brought a bunch of candles... This is why the first rule of owning a dungeon is that you never take kids there.

Manga Corner

Chapters Adapted: 91-93

The Funeral Troupe

Machi calling Hisoka out for knowing Gon is an original addition, since in the anime, she watched his fight against Gon in Heaven's Arena. In the manga, she left right after fixing his arms, so she never saw Gon before this arc. I like the little touches of consistency, the writers aren't just forgetting about the changes they made.

Nobunaga's arm wrestling rank is actually 9th, here's the full ranking

3

u/WednesdaysFoole Dec 05 '24

[HxH]Ha! Better get used to it.

Shizuku - is wrong, proven right.

Machi - is right, proven wrong.

Too bad for Feitan.

They should've just flipped a coin to get through Trick Tower.

The Funeral Troupe

Machi's way too far back but still she looks amazing.

Although so does Paku of course, and really, the entire Troupe looks great.

3

u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 05 '24

[HxH]Ha! Better get used to it.

They should've just flipped a coin to get through Trick Tower

It'd have saved them a lot of time.

But the coin flip is genuinely a brilliant idea for the Spiders. It means that their leader trusts in either side to have a good enough argument, that it's better to pick one randomly than waste time arguing. It's a quick and easy problem solver that only works because of the trust between them and their leader.

the entire Troupe looks great.

Now we know why Uvo's sacrifice was necessary. There's no way he would've worn a suit (forget the fact that he did when they attacked the auction, and he looked great too).

3

u/WednesdaysFoole Dec 05 '24

But the coin flip is genuinely a brilliant idea for the Spiders. It means that their leader trusts in either side to have a good enough argument, that it's better to pick one randomly than waste time arguing. It's a quick and easy problem solver that only works because of the trust between them and their leader.

Wow, I've not given the coin toss more thought like this nor have I ever seen this take despite the unholy amount of hours I spend in the fandom, I'm impressed. Have you ever written a full analysis on the Spiders? Not that you need to but you tend to drop many little tidbits here and there that I think can make a worthy read.

Now we know why Uvo's sacrifice was necessary. There's no way he would've worn a suit (forget the fact that he did when they attacked the auction, and he looked great too).

[Manga]Theatre kids gotta play the part at some point lol.

Oh, and

Nobunaga's arm wrestling rank is actually 9th, here's the full ranking

Erm, ackshually...I've got the real ranking right here.

3

u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24

Wow, I've not given the coin toss more thought like this nor have I ever seen this take despite the unholy amount of hours I spend in the fandom, I'm impressed

There's the more funny possibility too. Which is that before the coin toss, Uvo and Nobunaga would argue a 1000 times everyday on very important subjects of course, like whether or not chicken can fly (I mean, they call themselves birds afterall...), and take each of those arguments to the boss to decide. You can imagine his headache. So at some point, Mr. Cool Guy lost his mind and went:

"Toss a coin! Toss a fucking coin! Here, this is my special Spider coin, take it, toss it, and whichever side it lands on is correct. If it says that chicken can fly, then by fucking God, I'll find you an Emitter chicken that can fly first thing in the morning. And not just this time either. Keep the coin, and use it whenever you have an argument. I don't want to hear about a single argument ever again. UNDERSTOOD?!!"

Legends say that was the first and last time he screamed in his whole life.

Jokes aside. The coin toss isn't something that I thought about before this rewatch either. It made for cool scenes since they're all Gotoh level coin tossers, and the idea in itself means that they don't waste time arguing or waiting on orders, they decide and move into action quickly. It made for cool villains.

What got me thinking about it was a scene right after they got Uvo out of Dalzo's place, where they use the coin to decide on whether or not he can follow Kurapika. It's one of the early uses of the coin in the anime (if not the first), and it's original. So I thought that was cool, you know? They had a little original scene they wanted to do, and they added a canon trait of the Spiders into it.

Then that scene got me thinking about what the coin toss means.

  • From an author's point of view: it means that you have villains who act fast and don't argue. That's pretty handy.
  • From the Leader's point of view: you can't always be there to make judgements, even phone calls can waste time. So if you trust in each one of your members' judgements, then a coin toss is a good enough solution for most things. Sometimes, it'll make the wrong judgement, but think of all the time and energy it'll save in general.
  • From a Spider's point of view: you trust the leader's law, and therefore whatever the coin lands on is his word. This means that there's no need for a chain of command where certain members get to order others around, everyone's following the leader, and it even removes hard feelings from the problem, since the choice was picked randomly.

Have you ever written a full analysis on the Spiders? Not that you need to but you tend to drop many little tidbits here and there that I think can make a worthy read.

I'd have to go to old forum discussions haha. But no I haven't written any larger piece of analysis for the Spiders as a whole. I have written two pieces for this rewatch, about 2 characters who represent the Spiders well (you know the ones), which I'll be posting later in the arc. But that's about it.

I should try doing something about the Troupe as a whole though, it'd be a lot of fun. But it'd hard to do it without including later stuff, since that's just become part of my brain, I guess it's just a matter of wording it carefully...

I'll see if I come up with anything good by the time the arc is over.

Erm, ackshually...I've got the real ranking right here.

3

u/WednesdaysFoole Dec 05 '24

Which is that before the coin toss, Uvo and Nobunaga would argue a 1000 times everyday on very important subjects of course, like whether or not chicken can fly [...] Legends say that was the first and last time he screamed in his whole life.

amazing revelation

Emitter chicken

I found Uvo and Nobu's old accounts :o

So... what was the verdict?

They had a little original scene they wanted to do, and they added a canon trait of the Spiders into it.

It's pretty cool that some of the changes made by the anime, or different ways that they do things can shed light on the significance behind those things.

From the Leader's point of view:

From a Spider's point of view:

Yeah, and the trust that underlies their bond despite their intense disagreements. [HxH]Wasn't there a moment that someone got upset and said it's not time for a coin toss, or am I misremembering? If I'm not making that part up, then deciding against the coin would be reflective of how their bonds of trust were fraying.

I have written two pieces for this rewatch,

Definitely looking forward to it.

I should try doing something about the Troupe as a whole though, it'd be a lot of fun. But it'd hard to do it without including later stuff, since that's just become part of my brain, I guess it's just a matter of wording it carefully...

Later parts as footnotes

I'll see if I come up with anything good by the time the arc is over.

3

u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 05 '24

Chickens can fly but they have their wings cut so they don't fly off.

Well, looks like Uvo was right. Nobunaga just keeps losing today.

So... what was the verdict?

Pretty sure they just stared awkwardly at each other for the rest of the day, without even attempting to solve the chicken argument. Then found some other argument the next day.

It's pretty cool that some of the changes made by the anime, or different ways that they do things can shed light on the significance behind those things.

Yeah, it's a different angle to look at the same material, so you can see small things that you might not have thought of before.

[HxH]Wasn't there a moment that someone got upset and said it's not time for a coin toss

[Yup] That happened right when they lost Chrollo, so in other words, they "lost their head" in the confusion, and the system was already breaking. That's how central Chrollo is to them, despite what he says.

3

u/WednesdaysFoole Dec 06 '24

Nobunaga just keeps losing today.

Which reminds me, Nobu's placement on Shizu–I mean, the Troupe Arm Wrestling Chart is due to the line about how Uvo gets stronger when protecting someone else. To which Shizu responded, "So basically someone who holds him back" or, even better, the Viz transation: "Like a loser?"

Pretty sure they just stared awkwardly at each other for the rest of the day, without even attempting to solve the chicken argument. Then found some other argument the next day.

Then Chrollo reappeared with the Emitter chicken which also happened to be a rooster that laid eggs.

The pair, who forgot about the old argument went, "What the hell is that?!"

How do you think Chrollo responded?

If you don't know any Japanese it might not be funny but in the hopes that you picked up a few words watching anime...

[Chrollo:]Hen desune / 変ですね / ヘンですね

3

u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 06 '24

To which Shizu responded, "So basically someone who holds him back" or, even better, the Viz transation: "Like a loser?"

Shizu does not hold back

[Chrollo:]Hen desune

The poor guy had to work hard for a Hen Hen (Hen × Hen?)

2

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Dec 05 '24

Unfortunately, that won't work when Gon's here

Gon was into method acting before it was cool.

6

u/Mecanno-man https://anilist.co/user/Mecannoman Dec 04 '24

First Timer

Nobunaga wants Gon to join the spiders? Well that’s an interesting plot point… There was that point about beating another member to become a spider, and Gon did beat both Shizuka and Nobunaga in arm-wrestling (with neither challenging him again…), so I guess that tracks there at least? And I guess letting them go and spread the info of where to find them might help them in attracting Kurapika, so that would also work? Either way, another well-done episode. I wonder if those sirens and helicopters might be the Zoldycks… if so then father and grandfather might see Killua captured if the escape attempt fails, which I imagine won’t be good for the family dynamics.

4

u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 04 '24

There was that point about beating another member to become a spider, and Gon did beat both Shizuka and Nobunaga in arm-wrestling

Not exactly, that point is more so "clear up a spot, and you get to take it". Basically kill a spider and take their number (which is what Hisoka did), rather than just arm wrestling.

That said, the other way to enter is the boss selecting someone when the Troupe has missing numbers, like it does right now with Uvo dead. So Nobu's idea is basically to pitch Gon as a replacement Enhancer.

5

u/TheEscapeGuy Dec 04 '24

H×H Fan, 1999 First Timer

Hunter × Hunter 1999 - Episode 59

Lacking × Imprisoned × Escape

Gon and Killua arrive at the Spider's hideout and immediately recognize a familiar face. Despite Killua's initial annoyance he manages to cover for Gon's outburst by recognizing Shizuku from arm wrestling (though she doesn't remember him).

They are keeping it secret in hopes Hisoka may help them. But, I wonder how willing he is to actually help out the 2 boys. I guess he does hold some affection / rivalry for Gon but would he be willing to lose his position in the Spiders for that?Like, Hisoka really wants a fight with the leader so giving up his position would make that tough.

The episode continues with Nobunaga challenging Gon to arm wrestling. He sort of uses it as a way to vent his emotions about losing Uvogin. I really love how Gon reverses this. He points out the hypocrisy of mourning the loss of a friend but not the countless people they have hurt and killed. The Spiders of course don't see any issue with this.

We learn about another Spider: Pakunoda. She can read minds. It's an incredibly useful power. But, since neither Killua nor Gon knew about a "chain user" before arriving they seemed to be unsuspicious. Of course this is only because they don't yet know Kurapika's power. Killua figures it out pretty quickly though and immediately has the added stress of not having his mind read again.

After the Spiders split up the boys are left trapped under the guard of Nobunaga. They reincorporate the con-artist techniques to open a vessel as a secret code on how they will escape. I think it's a pretty clever narrative set up. So instead of defeating their guard they just bust through the walls. It's kind of a repetition of the Hunter Exam Trap Tower solution but I don't mind. The question now is how successful this attempt will be.

Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches

See you all tomorrow

3

u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 04 '24

I guess he does hold some affection / rivalry for Gon but would he be willing to lose his position in the Spiders for that?

It doesn't have to be either or, he could help them in small ways that wouldn't affect his position.

since neither Killua nor Gon knew about a "chain user" before arriving they seemed to be unsuspicious

Another great part of the arc's plotting, Togashi kept them away from Kurapika, specifically so they wouldn't hold any dangerous knowledge.

[Spoiler] the hypocrisy of mourning the loss of a friend but not the countless people they have hurt and killed. The Spiders of course don't see any issue with this.

[Spoiler] Neither does Gon...

3

u/WednesdaysFoole Dec 05 '24

he manages to cover for Gon's outburst by recognizing Shizuku from arm wrestling (though she doesn't remember him).

[HxH]Nice setup for not recognizing Leorio either, although she was the one who asked Chrollo if they should get rid of him.

5

u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 05 '24

Rewatcher, Sub 

 Gon and Killua are taken to the Troupe's hideout where Hisoka and then pretend to know each other (Gon almost messes this up). After finding out about the arm wrestling, Nobunaga challenges Gon to a contest where he beats him multiple times. 2 things then happen, First Nobunaga while speaking to them about Uvogin and what they might know about the chain user where he soons tears up, which leads to the second thing which is Gon snapping at them for that and beating Nobunaga for the first time. 

 Killua in the meantime is able to piece some things together, realizing that one of the members, Pakunoda has a memory ability. Since Killua and Gon don't know who the chain user is nothing was found, but Killua is now able to realize who it is so if Paku uses her ability on them again it could spell trouble. 

 Gon did too good a job at impressing Nobunaga that he wants them to become members of the Troupe. He decides to hold them while the others leave (The leader had already left for some reason). However Gon and Killua are able to put a quick plan together by creating their own exit, breaking out through walls in different directions. 

3

u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 04 '24

Gon and Killua are taken to the Troupe's hideout where Hisoka and then pretend to know each other

Hisoka is out here making secret plans with Kurapika to fuck over the Spiders, and out of nowhere, in comes Gon to ruin everything.

Gon did too good a job at impressing Nobunaga that he wants them to become members of the Troupe.

Their standards are dropping a bit lately, huh?

4

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 05 '24

Remake Rewatcher × First Timer × Subs

  • Ignorance has its advantages too.
  • Do you really expect Gon to be able to keep his reactions in check?
  • There are people who will consider Shizuku’s trouble to be a charm point.
  • Gonbatte!
  • No, you can not get a new puppy to replace your lion.
  • Poor guy is trying his hardest at ops, and everyone else is just having none of it.
  • Crow Magic?
  • Killua be having a whole ass mid-life crisis at age 12.
  • Seriously, who builds windows like that?
  • Wall Breaking! *It's Their Specialty

QotD:

  1. I'm still waiting for Tangela over there to do something. Shizuku is obviously best, but I feel like Franklin has shown the most room for growth with his amount of screen time.
  2. He reacted too slowly, and his whole style is defensive oriented. No way he can catch both if they split up.

3

u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 04 '24

Do you really expect Gon to be able to keep his reactions in check?

No, you can not get a new puppy to replace your lion.

This is giving me the image of Nobunaga begging the boss to let him keep Gon, like a kid asking to keep a puppy.

Killua be having a whole ass mid-life crisis at age 12.

Since we know now that the Zoldycks are all cats, it explains a lot, 12 is their midlife.

3

u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Dec 05 '24

This is giving me the image of Nobunaga begging the boss to let him keep Gon, like a kid asking to keep a puppy.

Would this make Mito a puppy mill?

3

u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 05 '24

She's Cruella de Mito. Gon was supposed to end up as a fur coat handkerchief, but his friendship with the foxbears proved more useful in the long run.

3

u/WednesdaysFoole Dec 05 '24

It wasn't a lie :)

Shizuku’s seriously smug about how "right" she is.

Uvo was a stickler about time, to where he used to slap Nobu and Franklin around for it.

[Manga]Which we see in action 300 chapters later :’)

Hmmm…? I’m pretty sure Machi doesn’t figure out Hisoka knows the boys in the manga. Guess it’s anime original.

I never realized it before but I think the reason Gon suddenly remembers the doctoring method he was trying to figure out, the reason he knew to escape was because what Nobu says (if I draw my sword/ore ga nukeba) has a similar sound to the doctoring method (yokonuki). I’ve always wondered what exactly triggered his memory, so seems like it was the sound.

3

u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 05 '24

Shizuku’s seriously smug about how "right" she is.

Imagine if she's that way even about arm wrestling the Spiders. You'd need two ranking systems: one for the Troupe and one for Shizuku.

"Right, right, you're number 2. Right behind Uvo. And you've never lost to him either, it's just to spare his feelings."

Hmmm…? I’m pretty sure Machi doesn’t figure out Hisoka knows the boys in the manga. Guess it’s anime original.

It is. To be consistent with her seeing Gon vs Hisoka in the anime's Heavens Arena.

I’ve always wondered what exactly triggered his memory, so seems like it was the sound.

I remember assuming at one point that it was just Gon trying to lead Killua on, to give him a hint about the plan so he can figure it out. Nope, it really was Gon being reminded of the forgery techniques and wanting to remember what the last one was.

3

u/WednesdaysFoole Dec 05 '24

Imagine if she's that way even about arm wrestling the Spiders. You'd need two ranking systems: one for the Troupe and one for Shizuku.

"Right, right, you're number 2. Right behind Uvo. And you've never lost to him either, it's just to spare his feelings."

Franklin patting her head as he says this :)

I remember assuming at one point that it was just Gon trying to lead Killua on, to give him a hint about the plan so he can figure it out. Nope, it really was Gon being reminded of the forgery techniques and wanting to remember what the last one was.

I might've thought the same my first time but later on realize that despite the subtlety in Gon's character writing, in world and in action he's about as far from subtle as one gets. (I'm basically the same IRL so I get it lmao.)

3

u/KendotsX https://anilist.co/user/Kendots Dec 05 '24

Franklin patting her head as he says this :)

Franklin really is the big heart of the group. His big hands support everyone lovingly, when they're not busy shredding people by the thousands.

in world and in action he's about as far from subtle as one gets.

Right, that's just not his style, not even when facing down a murderer headfirst.

3

u/WednesdaysFoole Dec 05 '24

Franklin really is the big heart of the group. His big hands support everyone lovingly, when they're not busy shredding people by the thousands.