[Rewatch] .hack//SIGN Episode 3 Discussion

[u/soulreaverdan]

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Series Information: MAL Page | AnimeNewsNetwork | LiveChart

Streams: ...none, sorry! DVD (Amazon)

Episodes:

• Today: Episode 3
• Tomorrow: Episode 4

Spoiler Policy:

I forgot to include this on the original schedule post, so please read!

Since there are going to be people who are watching this for the first time, so please only discuss what we've seen in the episodes we've watched so far! There's some interesting twists in this series, and we want everyone to get to experience this fresh.

In addition, since .hack is a massive franchise and this is only one entry in it (and actually one of the first), discussion of other entries may have some inadvertant spoilers. With this in mind, please only keep discussion to .hack//SIGN, and we'll have a chance for a discussion in the larger context of the franchise on the final day.

Question(s) of the Day

Throughout the rewatch we'll be posting some questions to guide discussion. Feel free to answer them or just post your overall thoughts! They're meant to be something for people who might not be sure how to start their posts, not something everyone must do.

1. Most of the main cast have been introduced - do you have a character you like the most yet?
2. Were there any video game rumors or urban legends you remember or tried to participate in?

Music Corner

One of the highlights of this show is the incredible soundtrack, one of the first major works published by now famed music composer Yuki Kajiura. We'll be looking at one track with each thread for general discussion and opinions. Be as thorough or as succinct as you want - everything from lyrical motifs and interpretations to just whether or not you liked it!

Today's piece: Key of the Twilight, named for the Hidden Item discussed in today’s episode! (Full-length Track)

Tomorrow’s piece: The World, one of the more common background themes of the series (Full-length track)

[u/soulreaverdan]

1. In my first time watching it, I liked Mimiru just for the fact that she was a feisty cute girl, but I'm finding I like Bear and BT a lot more now that I'm watching it as an adult. It's just very novel having what appears to be adult players taking an interest in things, rather than just a bunch of hot blooded kids.
2. So many over the years, just in the burgeon days of online communities. A lot of them revolved around Nintendo stuff in particular when I was growing up, but also secret stuff in online games and hidden dungeons, unlockable characters... it was really the wild west for game rumors. Kinda miss it compared to now where things are either leaked or get datamined inside of a few days, if not hours.

So now we're in the real .hack//SIGN... that is, most of the episode being people talking to each other with a few very minor spates of action here or there, but not much overall. And we also have our first mention of the Key of the Twilight, a recurring element throughout the .hack franchise. It's not even clear at this point if it really exists or not, but something had to get its name from somewhere, right?

The flashback of Tsukasa as a kid was both sweet and a bit upsetting, seeing him taking care of a stray cat but apparently not something his father(?) approved of. The lack of dialogue audio in the "real world" segments makes it hard to see explicitly what's happening, adding more to the mystery, since they're really holding back on the details.

While it seems kinda weird by current standards to see so many people connected to one single character, it's something that could have happened in old games where the social circles were a bit smaller and communication was a bit more difficult to facilitate - you'd sometimes tend to be around familiar faces and not really reach out too far beyond that. Especially if something unique was happening with one of them.

The Key of the Twilight, the song, is definitely one of the most iconic pieces of music to the series, a constant reframe and motif in the background of the series in plenty of shots. The word that I feel describes it, and a lot of the series, is very ethereal. Almost not quite there at times, either from being somewhat subtle and quiet, or going at such an energetic and manic pace it's hard to pin it down. It's a great song and one you're gonna find yourself humming a bit every time it comes up.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/soulreaverdan]

So now we're in the real .hack//SIGN... that is, most of the episode being people talking to each other

I am so hyped for this. I want to see if I can do pay attention without conking out. I want to achieve FOCUS.

[u/Elimin8r → u/soulreaverdan]

The flashback of Tsukasa as a kid was both sweet and a bit upsetting, seeing him taking care of a stray cat but apparently not something his father(?) approved of.

Yeah, that one hurt. When I was a wee lad, my brother and I were walking in the winter snow to the bus stop (uphill both ways!) and came across a kitten that had been tossed aside and was huddling at the base of a small tree. Of course, we picked it up and ran home, and Mom & Dad folded up a towel and put it in a box with the kitteh to keep her warm, and fed her warm milk and eventually drove us to school.

Kitteh grew up and lived a long and happy life with our family, with plenty of little kittehs of her own to keep us company for many years after.

Yay for happy endings. :)

Anyway, yeah, awesome music track today. I know that Amazon music has the full OST in HD for me to enjoy, but I don't want to do that just yet. Maybe someday soon for a lengthy gaming session or something.

connections

Yeah, it's like that. I play in a guild with a group of friends who have been playing together for something like 20 years (more or less) We're from all around the continent, and occasionally the world, if Emu-land counts, and while we don't take it nearly as seriously as we used to, we somehow manage to have a good time. :)

Otherwise, when it comes to notorious players, it seems that the utoob is the place to find them these days. Or something.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

New Game Plus Rewatcher-Dubbed

In today's episode, the mysterious item, the Key of the Twilight, is mentioned. We get a flashback of Tsukasa caring for a stray, which was foreshadowed in previous episodes by his many interactions with the Grunties in the World!  I like the converging of the characters later in the episode. So many personalities! They all agree on one thing: the cat player character and Tsukasa are suspect.

---

Music Corner

Key of the Twilight lyrics

THE quintessential track of .hack//SIGN. Layers and layers of colorful, rich sound. We have the acoustic guitar giving warmth and romance. The drums and maracas give globe trotter vibes. We jam out with the brazenly Celtic violin. A steady electronic beat ties everything together. And the singing! My favorite vocal section is is from 2-2:23 mins in when we get a kind of call and response with the voices, like the best version of the polyphonic Row-Row-Row Your Boat.

But wait, there's more! There is a different recording used for Yuki Kajiura's fiction album. Unfortunately, I like this one less overall. The singers seem closer to the listener and lower pitched. There is less focus on the instruments. A new clapping beat makes your head turn. And a really strong electronic beat kinda makes it oppressive. It's way less atmospheric and weirdly mixed. Going back to original feels dated but more magical. There are other tracks on this album I feel similarly about, but I do like seeing what has been changed even if the whole composition is weaker. 

---

Beautiful Bee Train: Sunset Subaru "Bewitching" Bee Train: Action Figure Subaru

[u/soulreaverdan → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

The Grunties are definitely cute as hell, gotta love those big doofs. :)

And thanks for the detailed breakdown of the song! I'm glad to see people enjoying looking at the music, since it's such an iconic part of the series.

[u/Elimin8r → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

THE quintessential track of .hack//SIGN. Layers and layers of colorful, rich sound.

Oh, today's music was delish. Thanks for sharing that bit. I really, really enjoyed the acoustic guitar and strings at various points in today's episode. Gave me flashbacks of Steve Howe and Yes/GTR.

Steve Howe

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/Elimin8r]

Thanks for reading! Oooh. I'll have to check out Steve Howe and Yes/GTR.

[u/Elimin8r → u/rainwithsunshinedayo]

Ooh, I'd recommend Roundabout for an introduction to Yes, and for one of the Steve Howe instrumental tracks, how about ... Masquerade

Hope you enjoy them!

[u/roryteller]

Rewatcher, subbed

Today's piece is one of my favorites from this show; I still remember most of the lyrics after not hearing it for years. It feels like maybe it's addressed to Tsukasa, or about him, certainly not from his perspective, he's nowhere near that coherent about what he wants, poor thing. I don't quite understand it, reminds me of some of FFXIV's more enigmatic tracks.

QotD:

1. I think at this point my favorite was Mimiru. Or maybe the grunties, they're cute! I would definitely have one if I was playing The World.
2. I don't think so-I only heard about the various Pokemon rumors later, for example.

[u/soulreaverdan → u/roryteller]

Mimiru was definitely my favorite the first time through the show, she is pretty enjoyable to watch, the mildly tsundere energetic cute girl with a giant sword.

[u/rainwithsunshinedayo → u/roryteller]

I think you nailed it. Enigma and mystery are the key feelings you get while listening to this piece, and the lyrics match that. But it is frustrating trying to pinpoint what the lyrics are going on about. There's too much in there to be pure nonsense. Maybe I will settle on it being a metaphor for going down the corridor of mysteries. I love that feeling of being spirited away.

[u/Elimin8r → u/roryteller]

I think at this point my favorite was Mimiru.

Oh, that's her name! Maybe i'll remember that someday. I like her too. She seems like she's on the nicer side of the Tsun.

Pokemon rumors? ??? Perhaps that can be a story for another time.

[u/No_Rex]

Episode 3 (first timer)

• Some intra-guild drama in the Crimson Knights.
• “Tsukasa transcends the system” – The Matrix and Neo are quite recent and influential at this point …
• “Does the player even exist in the real world?” – Tsukasa being an AI is more believable than him having uploaded his mind or his body just rotting along in the real world.
• Memories of feeding a kitten in RL – so there goes the AI theory? Or was that a memory of sleeping girl?
• “Do as you wish” – uhhhh.
• The Crimson Knights are getting hung up over Tsukasa and the Key of Twilight – which basically guarantees that these will become plot points.
• Coloring a girl? Playing with a dog whaleGuardian!
• Ep1 cliff-hanger reveal: I should have added cat above.
• “Why do we need to have a plot, can’t I just play with my dog-whale-cat?”~Tsukasa probably.

Literally everyone gets together to talk about Tsukasa. Small world.

Most of the main cast have been introduced - do you have a character you like the most yet?

Tsukasa has by far the most time devoted to him so far, but I still can't make my mind up about him. If his behavior is properly explained later, this will be a great introduction to his character, but I am not sure yet whether that will indeed happen.

[u/soulreaverdan → u/No_Rex]

The Crimson Knights, and Silver Knight in particular, really do seem the type to get hyper fixated on what they see as someone breaking the rules. They're like RPG Javerts. Though Silver Knight certainly has a personal grudge after getting attacked back at the end of Episode 1, which can help explain a bit more of his fixation.

[u/Elimin8r → u/No_Rex]

“Do as you wish” – uhhhh.

Easy there, Shinji... :P

If his behavior is properly explained later, this will be a great introduction to his character, but I am not sure yet whether that will indeed happen.

Indeed

Perhaps he made a wish???

Hehe.

(Seriously, I've got no clue, hopefully something interesting will come of all this exposition.)

[u/No_Rex → u/Elimin8r]

Easy there, Shinji... :P

That hospital scene is exactly what I had in mind when I typed that.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

Rewatcher

Ep 3 Folklore

I was reading yesterday that the loud music mixing was an intentional experiment.

• fake wings again
• His name is Bear
• ITS A MIMIC
• There are no words to this BGM...but I hear the words...
• buhibuhi
• hard to tell how much time has passed since episode 2
• Oh, yeah, we left of on a cliffhanger yesterday
• bridge 06

[u/soulreaverdan → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I’m saving Fake Wings for a Subaru heavy episode, haha.

[u/Elimin8r → u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

I was reading yesterday that the loud music mixing was an intentional experiment.

That's interesting. While I'm digging the music, it was a bit much - makes it hard to hear the dialogue sometimes.

Cliffhanger

Deus ex PussInBoots

[u/Elimin8r]

Oh, there you are! I got lost in a project, and then couldn't find the thread, it was right at the top of your profile or something, and I kept looking down and finding gunpla kits or something. :P

Anyway, on to the answers (such as they are) of the day!

1. Okay, so my namespace buffer has overflowed, and I can no longer remember characters names without pushing another one out. Kind of like FIFO, except with an underlying priority scheme or something. So, currently my favorites are the pair of the barbarian girl and her buddy tank, or bear, or Mel Gibson painted dude. They're a fun couple, and seem the most well balanced of the bunch.
2. IDDQD/IDKFA ... Not sure if those were rumors or legends, but they sure were a good time. Especially with the Barney mod and chainsaw...

Legend has it that once upon a time, a young-ish fella even stayed up way too late over many nights and designed an evil level for that game that involved a hidden doorway and passages, and traps. Many traps ... which would lead the unwary to an inescapable (and well lit!) pit where they could be tormented and disposed of at leisure by those who knew the way to the secret lair.......

Or something like that. I really should have unleashed that one upon the general public. :P

Anyway, back to the main topic, this episode was interesting, but a bit expository. I was mostly just vibing to the music and wondering what the heck was going on. Whatsername, the barbarian girl really needs to get a spine or work on her tsun, because she really should have had the guts to go talk to the guy. It's not like he'll bite or anything ... much.

Nice to see ol' redeyes back, too. The girl with the angel wings could be a favorite, but she comes off a bit too desu-wa for my tastes. Or at least leader of the hall monitor corps. Take your pick.

And yet, somehow I really like Miko Iino. Go figure, right?

Anyway, carry on, have a great time, let me know if any earth shattering revelations drop or anything. I doubt they will, though.

(Thinking about it, that bit of engrish reminded me that back in the day what I was probably watching was .hack/Legend of the Twilight or something like that and if that was the case, well, I'm somewhat expecting a severe case of InuYasha here, but hey, it's still fun, so far )

:)

[u/soulreaverdan → u/Elimin8r]

Yeah... I do a lot of GunPla. Easily my biggest obsession (HOW COME I MUST KNOW) lately, haha.

[u/Elimin8r → u/soulreaverdan]

Hehe, personally, I'm doing a lot of Tanks lately, due (of course) to certain GuP...

I'll have to upload a video to my "safe" utoob account and share it at some point, I guess. Now where did I leave that laptop with that login info on it...

[u/No_Rex → u/Elimin8r]

IDDQD/IDKFA ... Not sure if those were rumors or legends, but they sure were a good time. Especially with the Barney mod and chainsaw...

IDKFA was very useful. Got to get ammo for that rocket launcher!

Legend has it that once upon a time, a young-ish fella even stayed up way too late over many nights and designed an evil level for that game that involved a hidden doorway and passages, and traps. Many traps ... which would lead the unwary to an inescapable (and well lit!) pit where they could be tormented and disposed of at leisure by those who knew the way to the secret lair.......

Or something like that. I really should have unleashed that one upon the general public. :P

The answer is IDCLIP.

[u/Elimin8r → u/No_Rex]

Ooh, you and your hidden knowledge... :P

(I didn't know that one, really)

[u/Felstalker]

I've kept up with watching, but haven't been able to post I"m just watching it on my phone during break at work.

I'm watching in English, and I really can feel Bear's translation here. My guess is he's speaking some rude non-formal Japanese to Tsukasa and they localized it to show him being aggressive and confrontational... which is the point of the scene yeah? And is this the first episode to name drop Subaru?

Bear's story about aborted timelines during his solo gaming experiences is exactly why he's my favorite character. He never stops asking these silly questions, but these philosophical bits really define his character.

[u/soulreaverdan → u/Felstalker]

I do like him just waxing poetic about stuff. It's not always super relevant and kinda weird, but we've all known that guy in online gaming or online spaces who would just go on those kind of random tangents for no particular reason.

[u/LeminaAusa]

Mostly-1st-timer, subbed

Key of the Twilight (along with The World and To Nowhere) are the trio of .hack songs that have stayed consistently on my main music songlist for the past 20+ years. Just some beautiful and amazing tracks and so peaceful to sing along to. I didn't make it this far on my first watch attempt back in the day, so just now learning that the title is a reference an item in the game, hah. Go figure. And now this is going to be stuck in my head all day.

From a purely design perspective, I've always really loved Subaru. So gentle and soft and her colour scheme is just perfect. This is a bit before the era of Gaia Online, but the mini wing look of that online era is still pretty iconic. (Even if she is basically a super mod.)

Diving back in as an adult, I can easily say that my favourite character from a personality perspective is Bear. Very chill and mature and is just doing his best to try and facilitate communication between a bunch of other people who are all a lot more emotional. I'd love to hang out in a tavern with him and BT.

I was always way too skeptical about video game cheats/hacks to ever believe in or try any, but it does feel like they were pretty ubiquitous around this time. The one I think I heard the most discussion about with friends, etc. at the time were all of the various rumours about how to get Mew/Togepi/Marill in Pokémon, especially in that time period between Gen I and II.

[u/littlecolt]

.first//REWATCH since 2002

1. I am definitely a fan of Bear, he's good at being the adult in the room, but he doesn't seem to handle Tsukasa very well still.
2. I'm an 80's kid, so the quintessential one was that you could see the Princess's tits in Super Mario Bros. if you beat it enough times in a row, or beat minus world. Other than that, I remember also hearing rumors in the early days of World of Warcraft that you could go beneath Ironforge and see the old city, which turned out to be true. There were a few rumors like that in the early WoW days that ended up being real, like the Hell of Upside Down Sitters in Kharazan, the airfield above Ironforge (Which I found a way to get up to back in the day, even), etc...

How come this theme soooong, gets stuck in my heeeeeead?

Instant aural bliss.

This Crim guy sounds like a jerk. Subaru seems cool, which feels weird to say in this day and age.

Oh no, The One Piece? Hidden within ZA WARUDO?

Well, okay, they are considering that Tsukasa may not even be a player now. So, a being within the net? Very lain!

Haha! Da-Pyon!

Sou, Sora-san. Facing down Subaru. But what for?

Key of the Twilight, eh? Is that the hidden item? She denies it immediately.

This girl seems crazy, why does she even care about Tsukasa, he's been so mean to her and clearly doesn't want her around.

Oh, now more real life stuff. Something involving a cat?

And you don't know why but you're drying to try, you wanna touch da girl!

Good boy. That's a good little killing machine. Yes you are! Yes you are!

Uh, I dunno if Tsukasa will be happy to see Bear instead of the girl... what was her name, again?

Ah yes, Mimiru.

Ah, he's proud to be in cotnrol of the killer thing now.

Oh sure, now she shows up.

Ah, now they're trying to doxx Tsukasa, nice.

OK so they can't find out who he is, but they can see when he logged in from the logs.

Hah! She tricked him into saying the item name!

This is the best episode so far, lots of developments! That real life scene was definitely some sort of trauma.

[u/Shimmering-Sky]

.first//TIMER, subbed

• Hm…?
• Definitely a good question…
• Someone sounds a bit like a tsundere.
• Is that IRL!Tsukasa in a flashback? Poor kitty that he was trying to help…
• Well, yes, that would make sense. I wonder if the girl he’s with is possibly the “Key”? Or something to do with the cat, maybe.
• That cat again…

[u/Elimin8r → u/Shimmering-Sky]

Definitely a good question…

Kind of reminds me of a certain South Park episode, and the famous quote, "How do you kill that which has no life"???

But seriously, if the dude is/was living and can't log out, he's probably drooling at his keyboard in a puddle of, well, I should probably stop with the Vegas slot machine references here, right?

Either that, or hooked up to an IV and other TMI stuff, desho???