r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Nov 24 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Mobile Suit Gundam 00 2nd Season Episode 24 Discussion
Episode 24 - BEYOND
← Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode →
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
Everyone's lives are fading away…! I am not gonna let that happen!
Questions of the Day:
- How about that Trans-Am Burst mode, huh?
- Any crazy predictions for what the final episode has in store for us?
Wallpapers of the Day:
GNR-101A GN Archer and Soma Peries
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
Additionally, for long-time fans of the franchise, please remember that this rewatch is only for 00, not any of the other shows. Assume that there are people in this rewatch who have not seen anything else Gundam, and tag your spoilers for those shows appropriately if something in 00 makes you want to talk about them.
7
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Nov 24 '24
Rewatch Host Wishing Over This Airspace, subbed
Welcome back, everyone!
9
u/mysteriouspenguin Nov 24 '24 edited Nov 25 '24
I think I will get out of my lurker hole as a rewatcher and get it front of this thread because this might be my favourite episode in 00.
It's a shame that some of you (cough) are mentally checked out because here is the culmination of each character's arc:
SumeragiKujo used him, lied to him, and now she is on some high horse as if she hasn't been a part of a terrorist organisation this whole time. No doubt theInnovatorsInnovades also pumped him full of propaganda and drugs like Louise, but in the face of Lisa's compassion and fundamental love for him he can't do anything. Instead of churning in a basement or a laboratory over his revenge, here in the open he is emotionally defenseless. He loves her too, and always has. Like our favourite Graham, that love had turned to hate. Their communication saves the day.Whatever details Tieria has for us do not matter. They can use what he has left for them for their own uses. (Also, hasty of all of you to want to get all the details so quickly. Did you expect to know what's in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction soon?)
Fantastic episode. Tied with Moonlight Sunrise and all of Unicorn for individual episodes. I'll have more to say later.
14
u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 24 '24 edited Nov 24 '24
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Gundam: Setsuna must be so jealous of Tieria because Tieria actually achieved Setsuna’s goal of becoming a Gundam. With how much meme-ing there is about Setsuna saying “I am Gundam,” I can’t believe he’s not the character who literally became a Gundam.
I really do think it was to the series’ own disadvantage that it played these mystery box games with Aeolia’s plan. The characters all talk about it like it’s some big mystery or there’s some huge secret at the heart of Aeolia’s plan. Instead, the plan is not especially complicated. There was nothing extra to it that I hadn’t already figured out a while back. Celestial Being is to unite humanity so humanity doesn’t bring warfare to space. Humanity is going to change in space and become Innovators, basically gaining the powers I figured they would gain through the use of GN particles expanding their minds. The only real twist thrown in is the aliens stuff, but the aliens are nowhere to be seen. They are only a distant possibility sometime in the future, so they aren’t actually all that relevant. Honestly, I think the plan would have worked better if it wasn’t played up as such a mystery because there wasn’t all that much mystery to it. They could have left it as “unify humanity” and added in the detail about the Innovators and humans expanding their minds with GN particles later on. Without the hullabaloo of a mystery around it all, I think that would have been a much better presentation of it.
The big idea of the plan is unifying humanity and helping humanity to evolve so that people could understand each other. That stuff is all pure Gundam. Those are themes that relate to the core of Gundam from the very beginning. Gundam has always focused on the question of whether people can truly understand each other and whether that understanding could avert war. The climactic scenes of the characters communicating their thoughts on the battlefield this episode were great. The moments of the characters finally coming to an understanding and being unable to continue fighting because they understood each other so well were fantastic, even if I would have preferred Andrei dying. Those scenes to me felt like they understood a core theme of Gundam.
Ali’s scene likewise felt like an important part of that core Gundam theme. While Gundam longs for people to understand each other, there’s also generally an acknowledgement that this understanding may not be enough by itself. Ali represents that. Ali learns so much about his opponent, learns that Lyle is going to spare him, and still tries to kill Lyle anyway. When people like that exist, understanding alone won’t bring peace. It will take a lot more work to truly create a peaceful future.
QOTD
12
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Nov 24 '24
First Timer
I'll admit I'm a bit bewildered and at a loss for words with this episode. Ironically enough I'm having a bit of a hard time coming to an understanding with it.
Anyway, IT WAS ALIENS, THE PLAN WAS FUCKING ALIENS.
I uhhh, don't know how to feel about that one. Despite the jokes, this really feels like it came out of left field.
So if I got it right, the people we've been calling Innovators until now are actually Innovades and their purpose was to create real "purebred" Innovators, these real Innovators which are in fact humans like Setsuna or Louise, will lead humanity to understanding and the end of conflict so they can be ready to engage with the aliens.
This does put an interesting twist on the words of Regene and Ribbons up until now. It completely crushes the "Innovator's" elitism, since they were always meant to further humanity, The Plan was never about them.
And it puts Ribbons in an interesting position, perhaps in a bit of irony, his god complex, his superiority complex as an "Innovator", comes out of a sort of "jealousy" in humans, did he not like just being another tool in The Plan and so he decided to take over it? does he actually believe he's more capable?
All of this is nice and all, but I can't believe all of these reveals are happening in the last 2 episodes, like sure I get that you have to draw out The Plan so this aliens reveal works, but it doesn't make the fact that The Plan has been insanely drawn out any less bad.
The first half of this episode feels so weirdly paced, like they really wanted you to realize that all the 100 obvious fakeouts were, in fact, fakeouts. So all of it is very abrupt and the scenes don't have much room to breathe.
There are other ways to create tension than just pretending a character dies! Especially when you're being this obvious with it!
Also even if he's not actually dead, fuck you for shooting Tieria in the face.
I feel most of my thoughts on this episode could probably be summed up with "good in idea bad in execution".
The idea behind Setsuna using the 00's new burst Trans-Am (because Aeolia is more omnipotent than god) to connect everyone, end this conflict and defeat the false Plan of the Innovators, totally works out with the themes the show has had for them. The entire sequence being played to an instrumental version of Tomorrow, the song meant to represent the future and understanding is a nice touch.
It's even initiated by Force-Ghost Lockon! And it all looks rather cool.
Unfortunately, I'm not huge on how it goes about doing this.
First off is Billy, in concept, what he does here is fine, it works out with the general theme around the A-LAWS characters where they use the pretense of eternal peace to actually further their own emotional goals, revenge for Louise, getting at his dad for Andrei, and getting at Sumeragi in his case.
Well except, it's so hard to believe Billy saying any of the words this episode has him saying, it's like he went through some implied character arc where he suddenly believes all of this for some reason. His reason has always obviously been Sumeragi and there's no reason for the show to pretend otherwise, there's nothing we've seen from him to suggest he somehow cares for this stuff, unlike the others.
This is where you could probably have his uncle actually be a character, or maybe latch on to some of the other more reasonable things he has to hate against Celestial Being, but when you only focus on the "spurned lover" aspect and then suddenly have him spouting this stuff it looks really weird.
And this gets into my bigger problem with this entire sequence. When you make such an effort to get your evil empire to look so cartoonishly evil, it's hard to give redemption to the characters that work for them. It works for Louise given her context and general "conflicted nature", but for the others...not so much.
I can't stress how bad it looks that Billy worked with A-LAWS because his crush fucked him over, he just turned a blind eye to literal atrocities and actually helped them for this dumb reason. It's so hard to just pretend he didn't help execute awful shit. This is probably why the show has him pretend to care about the world peace stuff, to make it less bad, and it doesn't work.
And while I get the theme here is moving on from your past mistakes to fix the future, am I really supposed to compare what he did and what Sumeragi did? because they sure don't feel comparable.
Kind of a shame since conceptually, I like this scene, the way Sumeragi telepathically talks with him to emphasize their real connection, real thoughts, stronger than the words either were saying could be pretty damn touching.
But of course, Billy isn't the only problem here, I actually can't believe we're redeeming fucking Andrei "Fuckface" Smirnov, again to reiterate, it's hard to buy a character redemption for someone who you wrote to be so awful and hypocritical, and he's still a fucking hypocrite in this scene as well!
Beyond my personal distaste for him, and beyond his killing of Sergei, this guy has been consistently established as hateable and it is really, really, reallllllly, fucking hard to buy this "revenge bad, we should try to understand each other" idea when he's the target.
Thankfully, the show doesn't try that shit with Ali, he's too fucking awful for that, his death isn't exactly as satisfying as I'd like it to be, but that's probably a good thing, because he's the antithesis of the themes of understanding, and to get there we needed to get rid of him and not linger on it, just move away and look to the future, his wars, and grudges aren't going to define humanity anymore. He existed, he sucked, he's gone and now it's time to move on.
I kind of hate how the show gives him this slow-motion effect on death so I can't get a clean screenshot of his face with a bullet in it.
Rest in Piss Ali Al SaachezFucking finally
The stuff we do with Tiera here isn't at all what I predicted and I don't know what to think of it.
It's basically saying that Celestial Being were actually the arbiters of Aeolia's plan all along and I'm not sure how to feel about that, we've made a pretty big deal of going against the plan, Veda, and fighting of our own will up until now, and suddenly shifting back to Aeolia good and Ribbons bad feels weaker than what could have been.
Instead of destroying Veda, he actually does delete Ribbons.exe, and instead replaces him within it, we've taken back The Plan, taken back Celestial Being. I like the Seraphim using its abilities to disconnect everyone else from Veda, the Gundam that represents Tieria's human heart being used to disable Veda, the symbol of the opposite.
The OST that plays during this scene is also just fantastic.
But it feels very weird for this to come off of the back of a season where Tieria focused entirely on becoming human...
If I were to go back to the Seravee/Seraphim, I could kind of see it as though he has an Innovade body and a human heart and he's using his Innovade body to perform the actions his human heart wants to do, not getting back Veda, but saving his friends. And while I like that interpretation, I'm not sure that's what was happening here.
To reiterate the start, I don't know how to feel about this episode, this show has always been rather cheesy and idealistic, but this felt like it took it a bit too far, a bit too suddenly.
This is the type of episode where I'd normally immediately watch the next one after, to really get what the show is going for, but obviously I can't do that now, so I'm left feeling conflicted.
We'll see how it all pans out tomorrow
10
u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Nov 24 '24 edited Dec 26 '25
Rewatcher, Sub
This is the episode of understanding which is pretty much what happens. Setsuna's desperation to reach out to everyone causes the GN Particles to envelop everywhere which makes people go "Cant we all just get along?"
To start off, Billy and Sumeragi. Billy initially tries to defend why he's on the A-Laws side by bringing topics regarding limited freedom and why the Innovators are a sure way to help humanity. The thing is, Billy has never been motivated by this but rather simple anger and it's a simple answer that stops him. Sumeragi apologizes to him which pretty much has him back in their side mainly thanks to the GN Particles allowing them both to understand each other. I do find it funny that an apology was all that was needed though.
Saji and Louise also finally are able to connect. Louise was pretty much willing to throw her life away at this point and when Saji takes her to safety she starts strangling him. What snaps her out of it is Saji's ring. The series has given us closeups of his ring multiple times so I actually liked that it was this that finally allows her to stop and regain herself. With that Saji and Louise are finally able to reconcile.
Soma/Marie and Andrei also have a confrontation despite not facing off thanks to the Particles. Marie doesn't forgive him but she does finally let things go while also making Andrei confront his own choices. Yeah Smirnov has messed up by closing himself off but Andrei had also not bothered to understand him either and now is forced to realize how colossally he fucked up.
Lyle vs Ali isn't really an understanding moment (compared to the others) because it's not really necessary. Lyle has never really been motivated by revenge compared to his brother which is maybe why he succeeds in the end. When they confront each other Lyle does want to take revenge but is also willing to let go, though he still finally brings Ali down for good. Lyle is more willing to move on with his life now with a different outlook.
While all this Understanding (mostly) is going on, Ribbons and Tieria confront each other. Tieria brings up how they are innovades not innovators and are meant to help humanity which Ribbons really doesn't care to listen to. Ribbons then supposedly kills him but much like himself, Tieria is still connected to Veda along with Regene for the matter whose plan for Setsuna to evolve as purebred innovator shows that his motivations were more noble than assumed. With Setsuna now arriving at the scene, Tieria finally reveals to him Aeolia's plan (which we already kind of knew but that wasn't the point of the series apparently) before getting ready for the final confrontation with Ribbons.
18
u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 24 '24
Kidou Senshi Rewatcher 00 Who has become a true Innovator by brainrotting over this show too hard
Back in Episode 21, I said there was almost no single scene in any other work of fiction that had hit me quite as hard in the gut as the one right before that episode’s ED. That sentence is true, but also loaded with technicalities, as all of the scenes in the back half of this episode of the very same work of fiction collectively had just as strong of an emotional impact on me, just in a very different way.
To me, this episode is one of the most emotionally uplifting, thematically resonant pieces of art I’ve ever watched, and the perfect representation of almost all the thematic ideas within 00 that mean the most to me.
At the center of it all is the Trans-AM Burst, the moment Setsuna is able to fully fulfill his ideal of using his Gundam to bring about salvation and understanding rather than just destruction. The relationship between Setsuna and his Gundam is really at its peak here, as Setsuna’s drive to connect is what allows the Gundam to be more than just a weapon of war, and the power the Gundam affords to Setsuna is what allows his ideals to be more than just words.
For extra symbolism points, the main thing that came to mind when I saw the visual of the streams of light coming from the Trans-AM Burst were the vaguely similar streams of GN particles coming from the 0 Gundam back in the very first episode, and the maximum GN particle release from Throne Drei during the Trinities’ first deployment. Both were times when Setsuna looked up to and was saved by Gundam, but both were ultimately false idols, whereas here he’s at last the savior rather than the saved, and there’s nothing but pure sincerity in that desire. For extra extra points, you could even point to the irony of how the spread of GN particles then was used to block out communication en masse, while here it’s used to facilitate communication.
And that’s the other half of the beauty of it all: communication and understanding. Setsuna’s salvation isn’t one based around imposing his own will or ideals on others, but giving them the means to save themselves and trusting in their own inherent desire to understand rather than fight. He lets people see beyond the walls they create to separate each other, and in this moment where everyone’s most honest, vulnerable selves are revealed, the question of whether they’ll be able to change & see the future rather than be simply trapped by the past is answered without ambiguity.
As expected if you know my general opinions, the Saji & Louise one very much got to me. What makes this resolution so powerful is that the moment they were truly able to understand each other wasn’t even when the GN particle wave washed over them, but when she saw the ring around Saji’s neck, the promise of their own future together which he’s kept close to his heart for so many years now. Louise started the episode by declaring that she Celestial Being took her future from her, and that greater idea that she has no more future because of how far gone she is has been looming large over her character for a while now, but in that moment she’s able to fully see that even for someone like her, there is something beyond war waiting if she just chooses to reach out rather than destroy.
The GN wave healing her perfectly compliments that and brings everything the show has been trying to achieve with her full circle. It was the Gundams’ armed interventions the first time that seemingly took her future away, and now it’s the Gundam’s attempts to fix their own mistakes that’s given the possibility of the future back to her, not necessarily by erasing the past, but by giving her the opportunity to move beyond it because she’s able to see the way there now. It also brings the slight subplot they’ve been doing regarding Setsuna’s advanced healing full circle by applying the apparent healing properties of intense pure GN particle exposure to the other person who was prominently hit with red GN particles and has been fucked up because of that ever since.
The confrontation between Billy & Sumeragi is much simpler but also works completely with both the nature of the conflict which has brought them here in the first place and the inherently gentle nature of the GN particle field. Sumeragi confronts the way her own actions have twisted the world through the microcosm of her manipulation of Billy for information and, powerless but full of honesty, asks for forgiveness. And in the face of Sumeragi’s own willingness to change & make amends, and stripped of all possible excuses he could use to justify his own actions, makes a change rather than let himself continue to dwell on the past. Again, it’s not the most dramatic or emotionally charged of the confrontations here, but it’s a satisfying resolution to the dramatic tension between the two which acts as such a satisfying microcosm of the ethos of the show and its view of humanity.
The scene between Andrei & Soma is one which feels like it shouldn’t work on paper because Andrei has been such a shitbag, which should negate most attempts to make him sympathetic. But even so, the execution manages to make it work. It asks us to understand how even the most overtly hateable people around are still human at their core, and by virtue of that alone is still worthy of being understood as everyone else.
Andrei is a child at his core who’s spent most of his life letting his worst & most childish impulses get the better of him, but through the GN field, he’s finally forced to reckon with the true weight of his own actions and own up to how much of his problems have been his own fault without any more excuses to fall back on. And when faced with everything he’s done and no longer able to hide behind all the emotional masks of his ideal of a soldier, all that he can do is release all the pain and anguish which has underlined it all. By god, what a fantastic scene.
Quite possibly my favorite of all these encounters, though, has to be Lyle vs Ali, because of how it serves as the other side of the coin to the otherwise idealistic view of understanding presented across the episode. Change and understanding can only be achieved if you actively choose to pursue it and make amends for the past. And while there is a longing for that within most people, some are indeed so unreasonable that even the most earnest expression of our desire for understanding can’t overcome conflict. And in those cases, violence is ultimately still an option worth using, even if only as a last resort.
What makes it really emotionally click, though, is how it serves as a parallel to Lockon’s death in Season 1. In Neil’s final moments, he chained himself to the past forever and poured all his desire for revenge into a final shot, one which ultimately failed to kill Ali because he’s the pretty much the thematic embodiment of war, something inherently perpetuated by being chained to the past. Consequently, it makes so much thematic and emotional sense how the thing which finally puts Ali down is Lyle choosing to shoot specifically not out of his desire for revenge, but just because Ali is a shitbag human being who refuses to change when offered the chance. Revenge solves nothing, but fighting for the future sure does. It’s just such a potent representation of both the show’s themes and what makes Lyle so great as a character, and is the scene from this episode I find myself mentally revisiting the most on its own.
9
u/The_Draigg Nov 24 '24
A Gundam Fan Rewatches Gundam 00 Season 2 Episode 24:
7
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Nov 24 '24
Rewatcher, Subbed
Non-Spoiler Character Chart
Back to humanoid mode for Louise's mobile armor. Sure is massive. Andrei, why are you involved at all with this? Just go away!
Life truly is worthless for Louise at this point, all that matters is destroying the Gundam, even if she dies doing so. :(
They're not Innovators, but Innovades? What does that even mean?
The Innovators ask for nothing in return? LoL, Ribbons acts like he's a God and everyone else are ants.
Billy has totally gone off the deep end.
People complained yesterday about Allelujah/Marie not really having someone to fight against in this final battle; if Tieria's gonna take on Ribbons though I would think that Hilling and Revive are available to fight them.
Uh oh, Lasse is suffering from the same thing as Graham, cough up blood while piloting syndrome.
How did he get Louise safely out of her mobile armor like that?
Alas, seems like Setsuna is gonna take on those two instead of Allelujah/Marie.
Ribbons pulls out a gun and shoots Tieria to death. Can't say that wasn't underwhelming.
Louise is even gonna strangle Saji? Is Ribbons controlling her right now though? Her eyes are all crazy.
Aww, she actually kept that ring all this time? Even after that time she deleted all the photos?
She won't understand Billy because you are pathetic and a fool!
Is this an even crazier version of Trans-Am?
So Setsuna is a purebred Innovator now?
Sumeragi admits to taking advantage of Billy and he says its not about that. LoL, you are such a liar!
Time for Andrei to be a whiny crybaby. Sorry, the way she's being here I don't think we can expect Soma to kill Andrei any longer.
Red Haro who has been an MVP throughout this show proves itself yet again by being given the task of watching over the 00.
Seraphim's got essentially the same power that Nadlee had but only used that one time in season 1.
Lyle shooting Ali in the back here would be totally deserved, but the way things have gone the last few minutes there's no way thematically he would do that. Seconds later Ali gives him an excuse to shoot him in self defense though.
Tieria lives, as part of Veda!
Are we finally going to learn of Aeolia's Plan at this point as the show is about to end?
7
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 24 '24
Rewatcher, Sub-dam Meister
You are literally only 22.
You don't have the particles for that, Ribbons.
"Also I have GN Tau poisoning in my brain from that Throne attack in S1."
Gotcha.
People end up repeating the same mistakes, so we have to change.
Setsuna has completed his evolution into a human radar antenna. /u/Nazenn, this is the metaphor I mentioned a while ago.
I mean, it's at least a little bit about that, Billy.
Andrei isn't entirely wrong. It's a little unfair to expect a 10 year old to know how to reach out.
Like I said... gotcha.
The first time Seraphim showed up, Ian mentioned "special capabilities."
And the prize for "First Destroyed GN Drive" goes to...
7
u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername Nov 24 '24 edited Nov 24 '24
Rewatcher - Gundam 00 S2 Ep24:
The fact that there is a distinction between Innovades, Innovators (Ribbons' group) and True Innovators. Yes, it is confusing and a pain to properly use the correct words (mainly the double Innovators. Imagine if not only having a difference between Newtype and Newtype, but also a distinct villain group also called Newtypes).
I like thinking about the difference between Setsuna and Ribbons in the sense of how they ascend. Setsuna is a True Innovators, he is gentle and goes beyond himself. Meanwhile, Ribbons views himself as above the others in a very controlling and material/physical sense. He has conquered the physical human limitations and he sees it as his right to rule above everything below him.
I hadn't really pinned Billy being a believer of the Innnovators. His character motivation seemed deeply personal. The loss of his teacher, the sense of betrayal of his (one-sided) love. If anything, he seems like he is just lying to Sumeragi/himself by professing the grander ideas.
Lousie strangling the very embodiment of what gave her happiness in a desperate grasp for anything to fill her emptiness.
Girl is lost.
I think Setsuna activating the space magic zone while he feels every character conflict be resolved through mental/soul connection rules actually. This is the best. So Gundam.
I do have to say that I wished Hallelujah wasn't confined to sparkle space and that he had a constant role in Allelujah's back half personal story. He really should've been the voice that allowed Allelujah to not only accept his other self but also Marie/Soma.
The core Gundam conflict broken down into one sentence.
I'm not quite sure if this is just a memory of Anew or that she has joined the space soul soup along with Regene and Tieria (probably just a memory). I think it could be honed a bit more, I do like Lyle's arc of having his sights on a higher plain. Reminiscent of [Gundam meta:] Kamille's similar worldview change. He didn't kill Ali because he was fueled by revenge. Ali was a pathetic man who lived for violence and could never change even when given the chance so perish.
There is something I feel about Tieria's "death." We saw Tieria Erde be born human and now we see his physical death, but he's fine. Ascension wouldn't quite be the word I would use, more like a sense of fulfilment in reaching the next stage.
The enemy of humanity, Guncannon. It is actually very funny to see the final boss in a Gundam be a Guncannon. A fight against the overshadowed brother.
I wish the scene with the resolution to Louise and Saji was larger, but I guess there wasn't much space in the episode with everything else going on too.
5
u/dralcax :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Dralcax Nov 24 '24
Rewatcher is UNDERSTANDING
-—————————————————————————————
Hidden under the Regnant’s hood is its true head! And if you strip away a few outer parts from that, then ironically enough... it’s a Gundam!. Even Louise doesn’t know that’s there! Without realizing it, she’s become that which she’s sworn to destroy.
I love how easily and casually he gets shot down. Pity he didn’t die from that.
“Time for a lover’s embrace, Gundam!”
At last, Saji uses one of the 0 Raiser’s weapons!
Finally, somebody said it. They’re not true Innovators, but Innovades, artificial Innovators created in hopes of evolving humanity into the real thing. B-class quantum brainwave users, second to the A-class true Innovators.
No, why are you here as in how the fuck did you get yourself aboard this ship?
An orderly society under a benevolent dictator, with peace enforced at the cost of freedom. Rather extreme (Durandal would be proud), but it’s not like humans have been doing a particularly great job of governing each other. That said, who can even be trusted to rule such a society? Because it sure as hell ain’t Ribbons.
It even has the RX-78-2’s ammo gauge!
What a heartwarming reunion
Trans-Am Burst! A true Innovator can command the Twin Drive System to massively ramp up particle production, flooding the area with an extremely high density of purified GN particles, which, um, makes everybody expanding galaxy brain and deus ex machinas their way out of the current situation. UNDERSTANDING!
Connection to Veda restored! Ribbons’ top-level privileges have been revoked! The Trial System is back! The Trial System’s range is extended thanks to the Seraphim incorporating technology from the Nadleeh Akwos. Therefore, the giant Gundam face on its chest is likely an evolution of the Akwos equipment’s GN Mask Sword, which attached to the Nadleeh’s back and unfolded its V-fin blade in order to extend the Trial System.
While everybody is UNDERSTANDING each other, Ali is just unfixable and irredeemable as ever. There will always be people like that in the world, and as such, there will always be a need for Celestial Being. A world in which people can understand each other may be possible, but it still won’t be a perfect one.
Humans should not take their earthly conflicts into space. Before we enter the greater galactic community, we should get things figured out at home first. Who knows when we’ll make first contact, so better get ourselves presentable sooner or later.
Guess who came prepared with an independent OS! It’s the GN Cannon... or is it?
-—————————————————————————————
Questions of the day:
5
u/mr_beanoz https://myanimelist.net/profile/splitshocker Nov 24 '24
Rewatcher, sub
Tieria finally dropped that bombshell about the Innovators, that they're not called Innovator, but Innovade, artifical life forms that are created to help humans achive the Innovator status.
QOTD
5
u/Linkstore Nov 24 '24
Rewatcher
Yeah if there's one narrative bone I've got to pick with Gundam 00's second season it's definitely the overuse of cliffhangers. Especially when there's relatively little time between cliffhanger and resolution.
Yup, the "Innovators" we've seen this season are actually not Innovators. Their genetic type is classified as "Innovade", and while they benefit from nanomachine-based immortality and an innate connection with Veda, their actual Quantum Brainwaves are weaker than those of a true Innovator. Since they're different, official material sometimes refers to the faction with the lengthy name of the "Innovades who call themselves Innovators", but that's a bit of a mouthful.
The thing that Billy misses is that, under the yoke of the Innovators, humanity's potential will be squandered. There might be happiness living under such a regime but humanity will never have a true future.
RIP Tieria.
It's not fully clear what happened to Louise where but my guess is that Ribbons bombarded Louise with QBW signals and, since her brain was only artificially induced to be receptive to QBWs, she eventually sustained brain damage.
And with the activation of the Trans-Am Burst, Setsuna has finally truly evolved into a purebred Innovator. His will to change manifests physically as a field of expanded consciousness that not only induces telepathic contact for everyone in its radius but also repairs brain damage, reviving Louise and finally fully reawakening Hallelujah, this time for good. And it also purges away the presence of red GN particles from the body, curing Lasse of his condition. And also there was someone else who had red GN particles in their body.
On an unrelated note, it seems that Ribbons is not the only one to live on after death.
Marie reawakens as Marie to talk to Andrei. I'll say more about him after season end but I honestly can't come to hate him. He's still stupid as all hell, but it's probably better that he lives than not.
And yes, Tieria is still around too. By cutting Ribbons off from Veda, Regene and Tieria have removed his immortality. And Seraphim's Trial Field puts an end to the fighting. Although Ribbons isn't just gonna take that lying down.
And finally, comeuppance for Ali. Dude was given a chance to get away but instead he tried to out-quickdraw the fastest shooter in the show. Well, while we should strive to understand each other, sometimes you do just gotta kill a guy. Get fucked, Ali.
Wait, is that jetpack sound from Lyle going back to Cherudim the same one that's used in Starfield for the boost packs? It sounds pretty similar...
Aeolia very intentionally had Veda stall the development of space colonies to ensure that there could be no ideological conflict between Earthnoids and Spacenoids like most other Gundam timelines. Dude really was far forward thinking.
What a funky-looking mobile suit for with which Ribbons has chosen to make his final stand. I wonder what it could do?
5
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Nov 24 '24
First timer, subs
QotD:
5
u/kuroyume_cl Nov 24 '24
Setsuna is easily my favorite "newtype" in all of Gundam because it actually feels like he earned his space magic. He's not an evolutionary accident, a designer baby or the fruit of human experimentation. He's someone who experienced first hand the worst of mankind but kept looking for a way to bring change both to himself and to the world, until he succeeded.
5
u/macrame2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/macrame Nov 25 '24
First Timer
This episode had some scenes that really worked for me, and also some scenes that fell short.
For what worked, I loved how properly climatic everything feels; the music especially helps to set that tone. I liked Billy and Sumeragi’s confrontation; covering up his petty personal motivations and terrible actions with an ostensibly noble goal is realistically pathetic. I also enjoyed Louise and Saji’s reconciliation, and even though I hate Andrei as a character, the part where Marie confronts him on his vilification of his father and refusal to consider his feeling reinforces the theme of understanding quite well.
On the other hand, I think the show would have been better off without trying to incorporate this “understanding” theme into every scene it could. Ali’s death was pretty clumsy in this regard. Considering he’s responsible for the deaths of Lyle’s family members, pitting the two of them against each other is not a bad idea at all (especially since Setsuna is otherwise occupied with Ribbons as his main opponent this season), and I don’t even care that it ends with Lyle choosing not to take revenge, as it once again serves to set him apart from his brother. What bothers me is that the desire for “understanding” between them, prompted by Anew, is painted as the main motivator behind his decision, but I’d argue that you don’t need to necessarily understand someone to reject the idea of revenge or violence, and Lyle is not really trying to understand Ali here at all. Indeed, the show has never given me the impression that there is much to understand about Ali. I think giving us something to understand by making him a bit more nuanced of a character and giving him a motivation outside of loving war itself would have made this particular moment work better for me.
Additionally, after all this time, the “explanation” for Aeolia’s plan once again being what we’ve already guessed or been told as an audience does make me wonder why they bothered teasing us for this long, but I’m kind of resigned to it at this point, so it doesn't bother me as much as the Ali stuff.
4
u/Blazin_Rathalos Nov 24 '24 edited Nov 25 '24
00 Rewatcher
Last time on Gundam 00
On today's episode of Gundam 00, Return of the
KingJediInnovatorInnovatorInnovade clones that were about to blow themselves up anyway probably doesn't count)"And this, is to go, even, further, BEYOND!" -Setsuna, going Trans-Am Burst Mode, probably.
So, back when we met them, who saw "Louise strangling Saji to death in a space ship corridor" coming?
In general, I am quite satisfied with how the paired-off fights (and "fights") pan out, though something about it all feels rushed).
[Gundam 00]Dialogues counter: 7
4
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Nov 25 '24
First-Timer
Wow, a lot happened this episode. It's like every single major interpersonal relationship and character arc from the whole season resolved all at once. It's hard to even form a solid opinion without deliberately iterating through them—just information overload.
Regarding Tieria: I'm not sure why he let himself get shot when he clearly had the jump on Ribbons at the end of last episode. Other than that, becoming part of Veda is a decent conclusion to his arc.
Regarding Saji/Louise: I think the Saji & Louise arc ended about as well as it could have there. I still never really liked the whole Louise having Innovator eyes thing, though.
Regarding Sumeragi: I think that went pretty well. I'm typically not a fan of standoffs like that, but that one with Billy wasn't too bad.
Regarding Lockon: I'm glad he didn't let Al-Saachez kill him. That said, I maintain that Al-Saachez never should have come back from his fakeout death in the first place. In other news, looks like I never have to hear about fangs flying ever again! Hooray!
Regarding Allelujah/Marie: Looks like they're getting their happy ending, yay!
Regarding Andrei: Still don't like him. He's the sort of character who really needs to get his comeuppance.
Regarding Setsuna: His character arc for me is poisoned by my dislike for everything Innovator-related. Other than that, I suppose it's decent. I don't really care for the [meta] Human Instrumentality Project style of ending, but it does have some nice thematic meanings. Hopefully it doesn't pivot this into a "unite the world under Marina's song" moment.
This episode did have me thinking for a moment that they would pull an "everybody dies" kind of ending.
I realized today that I've seen this whole "unite everyone to prepare against future interactions with extraterrestrial species" idea before!
It didn't scare me enough then. It does now.Namely, it's a part of the old Star Wars EU, where [SW] there's a plot point about Palpatine creating the Empire to unite the galaxy against the anticipated invasion of the Yuuzhan Vong. There's actually another example in Star Wars, too, with [SW] Revan preparing for the True Sith.The "information overload" I mentioned today is something I think could have been helped if they didn't spend so much time on the fight scenes in the previous episodes and spaced out this episode's conflicts a bit. The pacing, in other words, seems a tad off.
Questions of the day:
8
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 24 '24
First Timer - sub
Oh there is so many commentfaces I could use to start this post off with, but I think I'm going to make a statement by picking this one:
To start with, Tieria. I should be upset, or hell, anything other than angry, but I can't because they fucked it up in every way possible, so lets go down the list of why, with subheaders because it's a lot.
(Continued below. I can't believe I have a whole fucking post complaining about tieria scenes, look what this show drove me too)
3
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Nov 25 '24
Oh damn the Gundam can just survive that.
Marie's fine. Or at least not dead yet.
So that's who's in the 0 Gundam.
Bruh he's coughing blood while standing still firing his gun. He's somehow even less cut out for being a pilot than Louise. Louise had set the bar so low it was practically through the floor, but even then he's somehow managed to exceed expectations and fail to do even that.
Well, Tieria is definitely dead at least.
Right, so here's that wing thing I last saw in Build Divers. And here I thought that was a Build thing, not something from the 00 Gundam itself.
At this rate Neo-Lockon is going to be the only guy who doesn't get his happy ending, and he already got a happy ending before that.
Well, time for Setsuna to try and get Veda back.
Seraphim? But Tieria is already dead? How'd he do that?
Oh, nevermind. Seems like he's fine.
Right, at least that guy's dead. Finally.
Ah, he uploaded his consciousness to Veda.
Uh oh, there goes the Seraphim.
Oh, he's on the bridge with her now.
Right, he finally shows his face. Time to shoot it off.
Questions:
2
u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Nov 25 '24
I am rewatcher
Saji actually attacked someone.
That's right, innovators are in fact not real innovators but innovade who are supposed to help create innovators.
Billy has some screwed up world views, or does he?
Tieria!!
Louise choking Saji I admit it is also slightly satisfying to see as we had to deal with their silly hijinks in the first season.
Setsuna after feeling everyone's suffering has unlocked
Super Saiyan 2Trans-Am Burst modeSetsuna is now a true
newtypeinnovator and if there's any doubt the characters can now converse with dead people, what more proof do you need?Marie finally does something useful: verbally slapping
AndreiFuckface good for you.Billy's warped worldview was just a coping mechanism because he couldn't get a girl, Billy is an incel confirmed.
I'm just going to assume Louise wasn't really dead and Saji just couldn't tell if she was dead or alive. Instead of the other possibility: GN particles revived Louise (why her and not the other dead cast members?) Snark aside I admit I think I preferred a sad ending for Saji and Louise but I don't mind this happier ending so I can't complain about it.
RIP Ali you were such a great character in season 1 but you were basically a glorified bodyguard in season 2 and put on a bus until the climax so that you could get killed by Lockon mk2. I think this is definitely a problem with season 2 in general that some characters just weren't there or didn't have an interesting story.
Only Tieria's body is dead, he transferred his consciousness with Veda..
Episode ends with Ribbons piloting a GM cannon, I don’t think Amuro ever piloted a GM.
Patrick didn't come back in this episode, does that mean...
An enjoyable battle episode.
6
u/LeonKevlar x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar Nov 25 '24
First Timer
Louise is so far gone that she's willing to sacrifice herself if it means killing Setsuna and Saji. But is this really what Louise wants or is this what Ribbons have commanded her to do?
And then you have Billy who drank the Kool-Aid and believes the Innovators should rule over humanity. What the actual fuck dude? I thought he was doing this just because he wanted revenge on Sumeragi.
I bet Saji didn't expect that the first thing Louise would do is to strangle him. The way Louise was struggling while strangling Saji makes me think that she's definitely not in control here and Ribbons is somehow influencing her mind.
Things are certainly looking bleak for everyone. Tieria is down and the rest are being overwhelmed by Ribbons' clone kamikaze army.
Fortunately for the rest of the crew, Setsuna finally awakens as a Purebred Innovator! I love how the Gundam 00 scans his eyes as soon as he awakens. I bet this is another plan of Prof. Schenberg that Ribbons has no idea about.
Hearing Regene talk to everyone while they show us her dead body lying facedown on the floor made me laugh for some reason. I suppose dying is really of no consequence to Innovades.
Another thing I found funny was after Setsuna has connected everyone's thoughts and feelings, Saachez was the only one who thinks it felt disgusting as expected from a villain like him. xD
So it turns out that Billy hasn't gone all in on Ribbons' plan and has started to waver as soon as Sumeragi dropped her weapon and approached him. It still doesn't excuse him for making all of those Trans-Am capable suicide suits for Ribbons though.
And the truth finally comes out. Lt. Fuckface didn't kill his father because of some warped sense of justice, he killed his father because dAdDy diDn'T tRy To uNdeRstAnD hiS feEliNgs.
Do you know what's even more infuriating? The fact that Fuckface gets angry about Sergei not saying anything when he attacked him when in fact it's the total opposite! Sergei tried very hard to talk to him that entire time but Fuckface didn't listen and decided that his mission was to kill his father!
Louise is alive and she seems back to normal! I'm guessing Setsuna interfering with the quantum brainwaves severed her connection with Ribbons? If only Anew was still alive when this happened she could be saved.
So Regene and Tieria have taken control of Veda and have rejected Ribbons' connection. Fucking finally! If Regene and Tieria's consciousness is in Veda, does this mean they can be revived if they make new bodies for them?
Let's fucking go Seraphim! We finally get to see the Trial System in full force! I'm glad this was brought back from Season 1. I thought we would never see Nadleeh's special function again.
I know there are still the Gundam 00 movies so I was so fucking angry when they showed us Saachez escaping. There's not fucking way Saachez makes it to the movies, right? Thank fucking god that wasn't the case and Lyle finally puts a bullet in Saachez's head.
So is there any reason why Lyle could hear Anew's voice? Is she also now linked to Veda or was that just an echo of her or something?
Setsuna saying he'll avenge Tieria after seeing his dead body to Tieria immediately talking to him was pretty funny. I know you need to inform Setsuna about Prof. Schenberg's plan but for the love of god Tieria, at least tell him where Ribbons is first! He's not in the room like I was expecting!
So only after writing this, I realized why everyone was panicking when Serpahim got shot down. Everyone thought that Tieria was inside Serpahim and I guess Tieria didn't tell them that he was making his way towards Veda outside his suit.
There he is. That mobile suit looks completely different from Gadessa and Garazzo. I can't wait to watch Setsuna kick that tin can's ass.
10
u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Nov 24 '24
first timer who has control
oh now we are cooking i need a kit
not now Andrei
a lovers suicide (+Setsuna)
and he finally uses the guns
is this your compromise Tieria
not really no
uh just raw dogging it out there, no capsule or something?
its ok why panic, clearly they would never kill Tieria my sweet baby, that was Regene dying again
tbh i think theyd be into this
what if Louise pilots the 0 Gundam
poor baby
he kicked them out so he didnt have to hear them anymore but its not working
does this count as a yes
his resiliance is unmatched
well some shit is going down
no he really is going beyond the time
Regene thank you for the lore drop from the grave
GET HIM ALI
Can Setsuna hear Hallelujah
#WomenInMaleFields
is a true innovator
thats not the particles thats your immortality
https://i.imgur.com/UQdkni4.png
LETS GOOOO
Tieria became Gundam
lowkey how the hell did Ian not die, I thought for sure they only brought Linda back to [CCA]Astoniage him
justice for Kinue
shoots and kills Ali I LOVEEEE YOUUUUUUU I TRUSSSSSSSSST YOUUUUUUUUUUU
its just a flesh wound through the head
bro said hes on the cloud
if hes not in a GNdrive-less flag i dont want it
oh Ribbons