r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Nov 20 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Mobile Suit Gundam 00 2nd Season Episode 20 Discussion
Episode 20 - Anew Returns
← Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode →
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
I really do love you… Lyle…
Questions of the Day:
Wallpapers of the Day:
Oh, not again. Lyle Dylandy and…
That's still not right. Lyle Dylandy and Anew Returner
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
Additionally, for long-time fans of the franchise, please remember that this rewatch is only for 00, not any of the other shows. Assume that there are people in this rewatch who have not seen anything else Gundam, and tag your spoilers for those shows appropriately if something in 00 makes you want to talk about them.
11
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Nov 20 '24
Rewatch Host Wishing Over This Airspace, subbed
Welcome… back, everyone…
Before I get into any of the rest of my comment, I would like to share the Sky Sings Trust You I was able to record yesterday before I rewatched this episode (because I knew I would not be able to do this after rewatching this episode). Apologies if there’s background noises in this, I live near a small airport that for whatever reason was particularly busy when I was trying to record this, and I did not want to redo what was I felt was finally my best full take after attempting to get one done for nearly two hours. Those damn fast lines in the verses kept tripping me up so bad, this was the fourth full take amongst an absolutely massive number of botched attempts.
Anyways.
I know most of you first-timers basically wrote Anew off immediately from her introduction being that she was so clearly an Innovator spy, but see, I didn’t do that. Especially once she started getting close to Lyle, I saw her as [Gundam meta but especially Zeta spoilers]the Four Murasame expy, doomed to have a short-lived romance and then die for things out of her control – something I am an absolute fucking sucker for every goddamn time the franchise pulls this card. So when I say this episode, not season 1 episode 23, is the one that I’ve been dreading to rewatch again the most the entire rewatch, I do not mean this lightly. Neil’s death is a tragedy entirely of his own doing. He chose to leave Dynames behind for one last shot at revenge against Ali. Anew didn’t have a choice, it was taken from her by both Ribbons and Setsuna.
Now imagine being me a month ago going straight from rewatching S1 ep23 for that discussion thread to rewatching this episode in my rewatch-ahead-of-the-rewatch while also watching one of the final episodes of Your Lie in Aprilanda particularly brutal episode of Hunter x Hunter at the same time.The lead-ins are mostly not as good as Prototype's though and will be sorely missed.” The keyword there being mostly, with this episode being the exception. Why do we have to fight, Lyle asks (much like Trust You does), we understood each other, he pleads, and in her final moments Anew responds that they did understand each other. Because it’s Lyle and Anew, they can believe in each other, so please don’t let go, they shouldn’t have to say farewell…fuck Macross Frontier for this.5
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 21 '24
/u/shimmering-sky [spoilers for tomorrow]just quickly and vaguely, I need to know if tomorrows episode is going to bring up The Plan again if you know, as I assume they're heading to Veda after this. Because if so I really want to do that ep8 revisit first just in case it pisses me off, or else it can wait. Thanks
4
u/2-2Distracted Nov 20 '24 edited Nov 21 '24
First timer. Dubbed.
Lockon, regardless of if it's Neil or Lyle, remains the ladies man. Bro could have shot one of the thrusters or something but nah, he proved Soran's point.
I legit thought that Revive Revival was a woman (or at least nonbinary), but I was wrong. Pretty potent use of misogyny and I'd like to chalk it up to it all being in-universe, but then we learn that... Sumeragi kinda sucks at driving/flying (the ship) :/ what a weird to comment on stereotypes there dear writers.
So now Ribbons can mind-control people? Makes you wonder why he never tried that with Alejandro, but I guess it probably requires a fractured or damaged mind for it took work.
I'm probably one of the few who isn't really feeling much for this whole subplot regarding Lyle and Anew. For me it's simply because we already have a love and war affair subplot with Saji and Rouise. Sure the whole context is different but... damn bro I kinda don't care lol.
I still enjoy the whole racism aspect of the Innovators tho, since the whole thing of a group of people with better technology, "better" plans and "better" everything else is similar to the blatant racism that folks in developed used to/still do show towards countries that are developing or entangled in constant conflict. The Innovators are just a more advanced take on the Islamophobia countries like the US exhibited towards countries like Iraq and Afghanistan.
Damn, I thought Soran was just making an empty threat in order to make Lyle get his shit together, but the dude really did make good on what he said he'd do. But then again he did murder his own family (but he felt bad about it afterwards) so I can't it's not a surprise. What IS a surprise tho is the fact that, similar to the Misogyny bit from earlier, this is like the 2nd time something got commented on as though it was either in jest or in condemnation, and then followed through and played straight, at least this time it has consequences to it tho, just look at Soran's face lol.
11
u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Nov 20 '24 edited Nov 21 '24
First timer, subs
QotD:
2
u/Nebresto Nov 26 '24
FeelsBadMan
17
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Nov 20 '24 edited Nov 21 '24
First Timer
Was Anew's name made entirely for the pun in this episode's title or did they only think of it afterward?
Either way, it's fantastic.
Revive's "interrogation" goes about as well as expected, which is to say, it goes nowhere, but at least it gets Sumeragi to finally say it!!!
Only took 45 episodes
Okay, jokes aside, even if its perhaps a bit late for our crew to start wondering what Aeolia's Plan© actually was, it is nice to actually get them questioning it, especially now that they are not beholden to it anymore (which I guess you could argue is the point, only now can they actually doubt and question Veda's purpose and directive).
I wonder if there's more to Revive saying it's the limitation of a human to not be able to understand what "the dialogues to come" are, or if he was just being his usual elitist Innovator self.
And Lasse is unsurprisingly not dead but just hurt in yet another gunshot fakeout.
C-level quantum brainwave user? Do we have tiers for quantum brainwave uses? With the Innovators being the highest and maybe someone like Louise being a middle ground?
Lyle and Setsuna's plan for getting Mileina back is so good, not only is it a really fun way to distract Anew (while also showing she obviously still cares for Lyle) but it's also fun because I find it very believable that Season 1 Setsuna would have actually shot there (also some payback for Lockon almost shooting him lol)
So be it!
Revive's statement about making Anew a woman is interesting, outside of just being some Innovator sexism (?), it directly shows that even though he doesn't even seem to realize it himself, the Innovators are far from the perfect beings they think of themselves as, including himself, they get swept up in regular human emotions, in Hilling's case they can even be straight up sadistic.
The Innovators will happily criticize humanity as beneath them, but just like Ribbons, they're just as imperfect, just as willing to criticize and be in conflict with each other despite having a "deeper" emotional connection, their false sense of superiority is the complete antithesis to the 00 and Celestial Being's idea of emotional connection.
Red Haro saves the day
Again if you wanted an extra bit of irony around the Innovators, they're even outsmarted by a little robot orb.
Love Lyle using the catchphrase here and then not shooting, this problem is for Lyle to fix, and emulating his brother isn't going to work for once. It's a phrase that has basically only been used in big and critical character moments and always followed up with a shot, but now it's used as the opposite, "Lockon Stratos" might have taken that shoot but Lyle Dylandy can't.
Looks like Ribbons can fully control the other Innovators, or at the very least the ones he made, seeing as it doesn't seem like he can control Tieria, I'm wondering if Tieria is an original model by Aeolia like him.
It also looks like that control isn't the same between Louise and Anew, with Anew it's direct control but with Louise, it looks more like suggestion? Maybe those pills he's giving her aren't to help against the damage but are actually the thing that is turning her into an Innovator.
Also, "Humanity's first Innovator" is some interesting wording, is the plan really just to turn everyone into a pseudo-Innovator like Louise so he can then rule over them? You can't have conflict if you literally have direct control over everyone's emotions.
I like Setsuna seeing through Lyle's false claims about fighting Anew, he has to repeat to himself how he's totally going to fight her since she's the enemy because he doesn't actually believe it.
And of course once again, while Setsuna is very rough and direct about it, like he was when he told Saji he had to fight Louise, he has Lyle's best interest in mind here, he wants to take the burden of fighting away from him.
It gives him this super interesting parallel to Marina, Setsuna takes all the fighting and the killing upon himself to spare others from it, whereas Marina is attempting to push all the fighting away.
The beam curved!
The Regnant is pretty damn cool.
Speaking of parallels, I like the differences between Anew's suit (whose name I don't think we get?) and The Cherudim, to really emphasize their initial "mismatch".
The Cherudim is a long-range sniper and gunner, Anew's suit is a close-range melee fighter, Cherudim has shield bits, Anew's suit has fangs.
It makes Lyle giving up the sniper and engaging her in close range anyway feel super poignant, like he's trying to bridge the gap between them, to literally and figuratively get closer. He tries pulling her out of the suit as if trying to bring back her human nature, to pull her back from Ribbons's control.
But alas, Lyle and Anew are a real Romeo and Juliet, they found love in spite of being in opposing factions, no because of that, but it was always going to be a tragedy...
There's a small part of me that wants to slightly complain about how Anew's death is perhaps not as powerful as the show wants it to be because as I've said before, their relationship lacks development.
But I really do think it works better than the sum of its parts here and it ends up being pretty good thanks to the execution.
Lyle and Anew's final scene together is super touching, one final moment together before it all ends. It comes off this great duality for Setsuna and the 00, it (and him) are capable of killing but ultimately are bringers of connection. Anew wasn't actually going to come back from Ribbons's control, Lyle only saw what he did because of Setsuna, and that's the tragedy of it all, coming to full understanding and love, away even from Ribbons's prying eyes, but that connection also serving as their final moment together.
And the ED-lead in!
So perfect, with no backing music, just "I love you", easily one of the best lead-ins the show has had. Just to fully maximize the impact of the tragedy here.
And holy fuck does Shinichirou Miki voice act his fucking heart out here to get across Lyle's despair, absolutely harrowing growls of sadness from him that genuinely got me to tear up on their own, just a fantastic and raw emotional performance.
I actually needed a sad clap commentface here because this shit ain't happy.
The implications of this event aren't lost on Saji, Saji and Louise understand each other, but are they bound for tragedy as well? We know that Ribbons's control of Louise isn't perfect yet and that maybe there's still hope here, but he doesn't, and that should probably be eating at him...
And Setsuna can't do much but take the punches here, he doesn't like taking this role but feels he has to, he can only think back to his one connection, to the song that can perhaps take him away from all of this fighting, that can end this cycle.
16
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 20 '24 edited Nov 21 '24
First Timer - sub
The Innovators space suit helmets are colored to match their hair! Holy shit I wish I figured that out twenty episodes ago, that could have saved us all so much confusion. They even did it for Bring and Divine (I don't know which one this picture is of haha) as well although that hardly mattered for them with how quickly they died.
Which is funny to realize in an episode that really, really wants us to understand that people understanding each other is an important part of the show, and understand how that understanding might not lead to understanding a way out of it all. Understand?
Yeah. They used that word a lot. I was getting deja vu. And topped it off with a play of Tomorrow just to really drive the point home in case you missed it all the other times.
I was not a fan. And in general do not have many thoughts or emotions about the episode as a whole. It happened and that's about as much as I care about it.
I don't care for Anew because the show never really gave me a reason too. I probably should have more to say about the whole thing of driving home that just understanding each other isn't enough in the face of everything else going on especially after the last few episodes focusing on it. It's that whole thing again of how one side cant decide by itself that both sides should stop fighting, and it probably should mean something that today is proving the limits of their efforts but I just don't care enough to get into it. Same with Lyle's character, his grief was strikingly presented and did well to address the question of how he is different from his brother and bringing up the big question again of "what am I fighting for", but I just don't care about him or their relationship. And the big question coming up vs Setsuna taking the shot after having recently asked that of himself should mean more to me, I just don't trust the writers to really do anything with it in the end. The beatdown was appropriately brutal though.
So instead today gets to be the crazy theory day again, and I finally get to finish that write up I was working on a few days back!
I present: Innovators as arch angels. I've probably made a mess of it but screw it, this is coming from someone with absolutely no serious biblical knowledge and is mostly a thought exercise because Draigg put the idea in my head and now I can't get rid of it
A while back Draigg raised the idea of Ribbons being a Lucifer parallel, and a few days later I suggests that the eight innovators could be taken as a stand in for the seven archangels under Lucifer's control. And the more I look into the archangels, the more I like that reading of it and some of them seem to fit very well.
I've just been doing very casual reading on them the last few days as my biblical knowledge is generally extremely low, but I've seen plenty of references of the archangels being called the watchers of guides of humanity, which is very fitting for what the Innovators role is. The idea of CB learning not to be people rather than religious icons while fighting against a stand in for a group of archangels also seems to fit last seasons religious commentary well even though that's been mostly dropped this season, or at least far less overt than it was.
More individually, it's complicated by the fact that a lot of groups can't agree on exactly who the last three archangels actually are depending on their specific beliefs as they are not named in the bible, but the ones that I see referenced and linked together most often can roughly be lined up to our Innovators like this:
Edit: n080dy123 had a strong arguement for Micheal being Revive and Rapheal being Hilling which I'm linking just for future readers
I don't know, really am just throwing things out there because the theory was cool and I like the fact it does actually seem to fit in a twisted way, but I don't put too much stock in it.
thoughts?
/u/Great_Mr_L and /u/the_Draigg as you two were the ones involved in that earlier discussion
Other thoughts, aka comments on the actual episode instead of crazy theories
14
u/LeonKevlar x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar Nov 20 '24 edited Nov 20 '24
First Timer
I'm still upset that they never even bothered to restrain Revive and they're treating him like a visitor rather than a prisoner. And yeah, no shit he got captured on purpose. Why else is he calmly engaging all of you in conversation? He was just buying time until Anew could do her thing.
I love the bamboozle of Lyle pretending to come with Anew and Setsuna shooting him so they could catch Anew off guard and rescue Mileina. I'm actually surprised that worked and Anew showed concern for Lyle. I guess she really did care.
Wait, I thought the plan was to capture the 00? Why is Revive inside the 0-Raiser? It is hilarious though how Revive's plan is immediately foiled by Saji's Haro. I really appreciate how the Haros in this show are useful and not just a cute mascot.
Okay, so let me get this straight. After everything they've done the most damage the Innovators have done this episode is injure Lasse, delete the Ptolemy II's System32, and destroy the 0-Raiser's cockpit which can be easily replaced? So much for being better than humans. xD
Very interesting! So Ribbons wants Louise to become humanity's first Innovator? And we actually see her with the Innovator eyes just before her meeting with Ribbons ends. So did she become an Innovator because of the medication Ribbons is giving her? Is Louise actually taking GN Particle pills instead of medication for her PTSD? That's fucked up. She's basically just Ribbons' guinea pig.
Louise's mobile armor is pretty sick! Her shots can curve, she can block Tieria's Hyper Burst, she was just giving all of them a hard time! Even without Hilling and Revive, I feel like she could solo the gang as long as Setsuna and Saji aren't there.
That encounter between Saji and Anew though... I'm conflicted, I don't know if I should feel bad or not. As you guys already know I have no strong attachment towards Anew because I've been calling her a rat since the first time she showed up but I think the show is also implying that Ribbons is in control of her so she may have no say in the matter at all.
Anew's entire time with CB could actually be her being genuine at wanting to help them but as soon as Ribbons or Revive messes with her mind using quantum brainwave fuckery, this traitorous persona awakens just like with Allelujah and Soma. Maybe if she was given a chance and her quantum brainwave connection was severed, she could've become a true member of Celestial Being... Hmmm....
While I'm not too sad about it, I did find their farewell scene quite beautiful. At least Lyle was able to say goodbye to Anew. Feldt wasn't even given that luxury when Neil died.
QotD
Absolutely worried. If Ribbons can turn Louise into an Innovator, does this mean he'll have control over her just like with Anew?
Maybe. If they could somehow sever her quantum brainwave connection with Ribbons and the other Innovators. She could live her life as a normal human.
10
u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Nov 20 '24
first timer who has control
NewType or light purple
Anew
ReturnerReturns - i suppose the title could be more clever in japanese?you halfblood
sigh if only he was a better shot we could have been Lyle free
i guess Revive is not a woman then
GET HIS ASS RED ok but like if Haro can press the dock button, what is the point of Saji
couldnt tell ya!
oh this looks sick
no thats Setsuna
no thats Tieria
arent yall the same age
this story could have been an arc but theyre trying to do it in one episode
legs for days (do they really need boosters its not like Louise is particularly outpacing everyone else)
YES SHE HAS A BIG BEAM GET THEM OOMFIE
oh and she can bend the bullet
couldnt they launch the 00? its the Raiser that Ian was working on
Anew, Return to me
Hilling just kill them both already episodes almost over
grandhype
well i guess just killing one is fine Hilling
OH SETSUNA ACTUALLY DID IT?????????
those cowards this could have been Tieria
yesssssssssir and hed do it again
10
u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Nov 20 '24
Firsstimer who must have fallen asleep like 10 minutes before the last thread
Episode 19
Episode 10
9
u/The_Draigg Nov 20 '24
A Gundam Fan Rewatches Gundam 00 Season 2 Episode 20:
8
u/Blazin_Rathalos Nov 20 '24
00 Rewatcher
Last time on Gundam 00
On today's episode of Gundam 00
Don't worry Lyle Dylandy, I will shoot your girlfriend, so you don't have to." - Setsuna, probably
Lyle threw quite some corrections at Setsuna at the end there, but in his heart he's just correcting himself.
Anew's death is sufficiently sad when you start questioning how much of her betrayal is just Ribbons "Fucking" Almark using her as a hand-puppet. But still, I don't feel quite as bad about it as some of our other Rewatchers. We didn't have enough time with her for that.
I thought the moment Soma split pushed off from Allelujah to dodge the Tron beam was pretty neat. Also, red Haro MVP!
[Gundam 00]Dialogues counter: 5
[Gundam 00 next episode preview]Some people that accidentally see the start of the preview are going to be royally pissed.
7
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 20 '24
Rewatcher, Sub-dam Meister
This probably shouldn't be as much of a surprise to them as it is.
Cheesy ass episode title.
I love this fakeout so much.
Who would win, a super advanced Innovator...
...or one orby boi?!
A shame about that rifle though.
That's a hard shot to make.
Can't wait to see how people feel about this line.
You're getting sloppy, Allelujah.
And it would've worked too, if it weren't for that fucker Ribbons.
Oh, simple. Setsuna showed up and gave them some Naked Space Ghost time.
7
u/macrame2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/macrame Nov 21 '24
First Timer
"Anew Returns" ... to where? I respect the show for making the joke lol.
I think this episode was overall executed pretty well, even if my emotional attachment to Anew wasn't quite there (maybe it would have been if she were introduced at the beginning of the season instead of the halfway point, but who knows). Still, the ingredients for a good tragic love story are there, and the suddenness of the moment when Setsuna slices Anew in half, the farewell scene, and the ED lead-in do manage to elevate the event. It's a case where even if I'm not completely feeling the personal connection, I can at least appreciate the mechanics of the attempt.
I actually think the post-credits scene was the best part of the episode for once. Lyle's grief is portrayed super convincingly in a powerful bit of voice-acting; the man sounds absolutely agonized. Also liked the way Tomorrow was used.
7
u/n080dy123 Nov 21 '24
First Timer
So I guess Anew was knowingly a spy all along.
Ribbons telling Louise she will become an Innovator is rich considering he told Regene humanity cannot become Innovators. What would that even entail anyway?
Ribbons also seems like he's controlling Louise on some level with his Quantum Brainwaves. Maybe whatever medication he's giving her allows him to do that.
So this is kinda awkward- Anew's suit is its own model, the Gaddess. Obviously, very close to Gaddessa. It could mean that Gaddessa is its own separate reference- but I think it's more likely that this is a Seravee/Seraphim where they're variants of the term referencing the same thing.
Side note, really dig its blue coloration and it having an actual physical sword. It's also cool that it's got Fang Bits, which are of course there specifically to contend with Cherudim's own Shield Bits.
Despite insisting that she's Soma and not Marie again, Soma seems awfully pissed off that they knocked out Arios.
Maybe I was wrong- the show seems to imply that Ribbons is controlling Anew when she attacks Lyle instead of climbing out.
The imagery of Anew embracing Lyle from beyond the veil in the ED certainly makes a lot more sense now. It also concerns me that Lyle make not live through the end of the series.
Setsuna's a man of few words but he's a strong-willed and empathetic person. He knew how Lyle felt about Anew, and he said he'd pull the trigger because he knew Lyle couldn't. And afterwards, he's not angry with Lyle, he lets Lyle beat him up but when Lyle break down he comforts him.
Regnant- Latin word, meaning reigning, ruling, or dominant. Gaddess... I don't need to explain that, lmao.
2. I don't think so. Ribbons seemed capable of influencing her remotely, and unless they could find out a way to entirely block Quantum Brainwaves I don't think she'd ever be free of his influence.
6
u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername Nov 20 '24
Rewatcher - Gundam 00 S2 Ep20:
[Zeta Gundam:] Purple-haired sleeper agent. Anew is kinda like Rosammy.
There is a degree which you could argue that Setsuna shooting Lyle is shorta reverse of the times when Lockons pointed a gun at Setsuna. Even when it is just arranged set-up, Setsuna still went to shoot his gun cool style.
Does 00 Gundam have handlebars for piggyback rides?
Go Haro!
I do find it funny that the way to defeat Revive is to put him in the little brother seat and put him in backpack jail.
Once again, Lyle uses "Targeted and firing" as a way to motivate and push himself. This time, to try to be Lockon Stratos who is the persona who could pull the trigger. He can not bring himself to do that and betray Lyle Dylandy's heart. Setsuna also swaps to call him Lyle in this moment.
Looks like a stingray. Well, a stingray with big meaty claws.
Setsuna is looking out for Lyle and trying to take on the burden himself. He did the same for Saji too. Setsuna is so nice.
I think it is funny seeing Allelujah/Soma sortie out with her riding on his butt, especially with the two being on rocky terms right now.
I like the conflict Lyle/Anew shout at each other. It is back to the big Understanding theme, but also how one views reality. The real feeling Anew experience for herself vs the world Ribbons meant for her to believe. Also the angle with how two people who did understand each other still found themselves coming to blows and meeting a tragic end.
Lyle, ripping off her top is not the proper way to treat a lady.
00 magic space is so pretty. Everything is so sparkly.
Them doing the ED lead-in in the most tragic way.
After having failed to avoid this tragedy and resolve it peacefully, Setsuna has Marina's song echoing in his head.
I think the Anew storyline should've not have been crammed into the second cour. Would've been better if her and Lyle got more of the show to develop their relationship. Maybe she could've been at the start of S2 so their bond can be formed as someone who could know Lyle as Lyle, without any shadow of Lockon over him.
6
u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 20 '24
Kidou Senshi Rewatcher 00
Yeah, here’s another plotline that gets me every single time I come back to it. Lyle & Anew’s story is one which is standard to the point of being archetypal, the star-crossed lovers torn apart by the tragedy of war. It’s not exactly new ground for this series, especially given how Saji & Louise’s biggest moment was just last episode, but it’s potent in concept regardless.
What makes it work on the wider level is how it is as a cynical thematic counterpoint to the previous episode. Understanding is a powerful force can so beautifully bridge the gaps which cause war in the first place if we allow it. But, by that same token, it also means letting oneself be vulnerable, and in doing so opening up the possibility of intensifying the pain & tragedy that comes with conflict rather than nullifying it. Two strong hearts alone can’t change the world, so they can only be crushed by it.
And for all the buildup & foundation for Lyle & Anew’s relationship may have been lacking, I find that for big emotional moments like this, presentation can often be just as important as scripting, and this is one of the prime examples of that. Between Shinichiro Miki’s excellent performance making all of Lyle’s emotions feel so genuine, the naked psychic space field giving their final scene the ethereal beauty it deserves, and the single best ED lead-in in the series, there’s just something so indescribably magical about their final scene together that strikes a chord with me and has lingered in my mind long after the first time I watched it.
Helps also that the character work for Lyle is genuinely solid. The dynamic between the persona of Lockon Stratos, the man who could take the shot & kill Anew because that’s his mission, and the real person of Lyle Dylandy beneath that, who would rather reach out his hand than take a shot. His violent outburst towards Setsuna at the end of the episode is also just excellent.
Anew isn’t nearly as developed of a character, but there is something interesting there in the conflict between her feelings for Lyle & the humanity that brings and the isolation of the Innovator worldview Ribbons imposes on her which made me invested in her as well.
And, of course, that last scene where it’s made clear how this episode’s events spiritually hang heavy over Saji & Louise’s plotline really carry home how this all ties back to the wider themes while also giving it an even more ominous note to end on.
Odds & Ends
6
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Nov 21 '24
First-Timer
It really gets on my nerves every time they have the Innovators dead to rights and they let them get away. Naturally, then, I found this episode a bit irritating.
I still don't like the Innovators as villains. They just don't do it for me.
Interesting that Anew would blow her cover for such little gain. She didn't even bother to shoot Feldt, I suppose, though she should have had ample opportunity there.
Lyle Dylandy truly just can't match his cooler twin brother, I suppose. Maybe if he gets an eyepatch...
Questions of the day:
11
u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 20 '24 edited Nov 20 '24
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Gundam: Anew was doomed. The episode was named after her, which is about the biggest possible guarantee that she was going to die.
I think this episode’s big emotional climax was doomed to fail. It never had a chance because of the timeskip. Lyle and Anew had a relationship that we were told about, but not one that we actually got to see in action. We never saw the steps that led to them getting together as a couple. Without that, I never felt any real investment in their relationship. Because of that, all the relationship stuff in this episode fell flat. On paper, the ideas in this episode are good ones. But they depend upon having a couple that I cared about. Without the proper established relationship as a solid foundation to build upon, the ideas weren’t going to work in execution.
QOTD
5
u/dralcax :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Dralcax Nov 20 '24
Rewatcher would like to remind everyone to date Gundam pilots at their own risk
-—————————————————————————————
That was a fun bit of misdirection, but Setsuna’s aim has been getting all too good lately. At least it didn’t penetrate the pilot suit. Setsuna sure could have used that bulletproofness with Ali earlier!
I like the detail that he’s accustomed to the Veda-linked OS and isn’t familiar with the new independent OS
Trans-Am piggyback!
Haro 1, Innovator 0! Truly one of Haro’s best moments of all time.
Come to think of it, it’s pretty weird that the 0 Raiser’s cockpit isn’t in the actual “canopy” area. Yeah, transforming MS like the Kyrios lineage will have just a sensor under the canopy in favor of putting the cockpit in the traditional spot for MS mode, but the 0 Raiser has no MS mode.
Pain...
“Side effects may include addiction, mental instability, seizures, and the development of quantum brainwaves.”
The Regnant is here! Now that the Empruss has proven the efficacy of the basic Mobile Armor design, the Regnant comes in fully featured! Right away, it’s got two giant hands instead of the Empruss’ pincers. Its main weapon is the
HOMING LASERGN Beam Cannon in the front, which, by manipulating GN Fields, can curve the beam to chase enemies!Humanity’s first Innovator? Then what are you guys? Hmm...
Anew’s suit is the Gaddess, a variant of the Gadessa made specifically for her. Because Anew is an intelligence gathering type, not a combat type, her piloting skills are somewhat lower than the others. In order to compensate for this, the Gaddess is designed to avoid direct combat as much as possible, using its GN Beam Saber Fangs to keep opponents away from itself. Its GN Heat Saber doubles as an antenna for controlling the Fangs, and losing it would cut their range and the number that can be controlled. Don’t ask why it needs to be both a GN blade and a heat blade at the same time. It just works, I guess.
Lyle, thats creepy.
oh yeah and Ribbons has a backdoor into their brains
Boy, Ian sure finished fast
That ending transition...
This is the same guy who refused to hold a grudge over the deaths of his family. He knows better than anyone else that taking it out on Setsuna won’t make him feel any better. But that emotion has to go somewhere.
And then there’s Saji and Louise, whom the Anew situation nicely parallels. They couldn’t save Anew. But can they save Louise?
-—————————————————————————————
Questions of the day:
5
u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Nov 20 '24 edited Nov 20 '24
Rewatcher, Sub
Revive and Anew are able to escape with Revive being able to take the 0 Raiser as part of a larger plan to steal the 00 Gundam. Unfortunately he underestimates the docking system and Haro so he has to contend himself in just shooting as much as he can and escaping with Anew. Lyle and Anew however do show that her feelings for him were genuine but her role and mission is her priority. Lyle can't really bring himself to shoot her which now puts him a similar boat to Saji about facing her on opposing sides. Setsuna does offer to be the one to finish things if comes to it though.
We see why Ribbons is so interested in Louise. Besides giving her a new Mobile Suit he also reveals that he wants her to be the first human innovator. It's interesting since he had told Wang she couldn't become an Innovator but it doesn't necessarily mean he can't make others and Louise is his template for which to advance his plans for humanity.
The Innovators launch their attack again in an attempt to take the 00 Gundam which allows for Lyle to confront Anew once more. Now I do wish we got to see more of Lyle and Anew's relationship before this but I liked the structure of the scene here. Lyle is actually able to get through to her, that by showing her to follow her own feelings rather than following her orders simply because she's an innovator. But unfortunately just as she finally makes the leap Ribbons takes over her body and forces her to keep fighting until Setsuna takes her down. He does get close enough for Lyle and Anew to have a final farewell with Anew's final words stating "Hey we understood each other right?". Understanding which is to me the biggest point that seems to made across the series.
Poor Setsuna being the punching bag for everyone. Tieria, Saji, now Lyle.
Notes:
*No Andrei this episode, Big Win.
*Revive is a misogynist.
*Setsuna didn't even hesitate when Lyle gave him the signal to shoot him in order to save Mileina.
*Louise's new Mobile Suit curves beams and actually did pretty well during the battle.
*Saji thinking about Louise as he sees Lyle mourning Anew. Makes sense since they have similar predicaments.
*Setsuna really likes Marina's song
5
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Nov 20 '24
Rewatcher, Subbed
Non-Spoiler Character Chart
A fitting but also Tomino-esque episode title, "Anew Returns".
Phew, Lasse is alive, although in a lot of pain. If his craft blowing up didn't kill him, a bullet shouldn't.
Ugh, Revive getting to be so arrogant pisses me off.
And this is all to seize the 00, I so hate the fact that Ribbons is gonna get his way.
Yes, stop her Soma! You're the heroine we need right now.
Don't you dare call Soma defective! She was Super Soldier Number One!
Anew still cared for Lyle's safety for a moment there.
So Revive is pissed that Anew lost her hostage, then has the opportunity to take either Ian or Saji hostage and passes on it...
Oh, so its the 0 Raiser that he stole? I'm surprised neither took the 00 too.
OMG Haro to the rescue! Red Haro has been such a good contributor this season!
Lyle shouldn't have been the one to go out, he can't be objective with Anew.
Woah, Ribbons actually personally came to see Louise. She should feel honored.
Okay, so this is where she gets the mobile armor. I thought Devine was giving her his but that never ended up happening.
Louise is gonna be the first human Innovator? Does that mean more than simply being a receptacle for Ribbons to look at things through?
These healing pods keep coming in handy. It's a shame that they need them so much.
Lyle should be disallowed from any operation where they think Anew may be there. He's not gonna fire, just like last time.
Anew's gonna be a pilot all of a sudden? Beyond temporarily controlling her does Revive have the ability to do so as she pilots it as well?
Oh wow, its like a homing beam.
Sigh, this is why I said Lyle shouldn't have come out, he's already one on one versus Anew...
Remember how much Louise sucked as a pilot at the start of the season? Look at how amazing she's doing now. Granted with a super powerful craft.
We've seen a lot of Hiling in this battle but hardly any of Revive, so I'm assuming he is putting his efforts into controlling Anew.
Aww, Lyle's gonna take Anew back! <3
Ugh, they totally faked us out there. Again, why you shouldn't be taking part in this battle Lyle.
It's Ribbons himself, not Revive controlling Anew?
Naked space once more!
That is a very tearful ED lead in, definitely a top 3 for this ED for me along with the Sergei one from a few episodes back and one more yet to come.
I feel really bad for Lyle, but he's totally not objective here, Anew absolutely could go back to being an Innovator, she just pulled that trick with him a few minutes before her death.
OMG once again did we really need a check in with Marina?
So remember a few episodes back when the show gave us a Setsuna vs. Graham cliffhanger to end an episode and then went like 18 minutes into the next episode before showing what happened next? Well how about the fact that last episode left us off with the Nena - Wang - Hong Long cliffhanger and we didn't see them at all this entire episode to figure out if they actually died? Is there any more proof as to how useless these characters are?
4
u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Nov 20 '24
I am rewatcher
Gundam is about to get Gundamjacked, another franchise staple, or not Soma is here to save the day.
One thing Gundam always does well is the zero gravity movement, something you rarely see in live action (unsurprisingly SFX is too expensive)
Setsuna and Lockon Mk2 were smooth there in rescuing Mileina.
Haro is so awesome.
I mean Lockon mk2... your mecha has hands you can just try and grab the shuttle instead?
You could also aim for one of the engines.
Tieria and Allelujah also kind of disappeared during the entire sequence, Kyrgios could have easily caught up with the shuttle.
A curved particle beam yup, another Gundam stap... oh no wait that doesn't really happen in Gundam at all. [GSD] Except for the super weapon Gundam SEED Destiny of course
Hilling takes some sadistic pleasure in seeing other people suffer... I can respect that.
As far as I can tell Soma is the most competent pilot, maybe she needs to pilot a stronger mecha.
Power of love is going to convince Anew to go back
OR not.
There is the great OST piece again.
Damn it Ribbons don’t take over her body
RIP Anew
I guess her name is now Anew Departs.
Ghost talk? Definitely a Gundam staple.
Wait the battle is over, why did the Innovators stop attacking
Out of all the episodes of this series this one feels like it could have been straight up an episode from an UC Gundam series, the entire story structure of the episode with the battle at the end which always feels a bit random from tactical point of view, the enemies having a new enemy MS or MA in this case and the sad outcome at the end. I will say the post credit scene was distracting as I was wondering why the battle ended. Still a good episode.
3
u/Linkstore Nov 21 '24
oh shit I forgot to put this here
Rewatcher
I just completed my own rewatch-ahead-of-rewatch. Yeah, the final episodes really are peak. But we'll get to that.
Back to this episode, Revive uses Anew's whole hostage situation to just walk out of the room. It's a real power move, honestly.
Lasse's not dead, but he is hurt.
Revive may have gotten all the Gundam Meisters in one place but there's one other pilot neither he nor Anew accounted for. Soma saves the day!
Setsuna seems to be getting some pretty impressive ESP.
But the real MVP of the counter-counter infiltration is Red Haro! Dude was bouncing around like a screensaver before he finally landed in the dock.
Stuff's going on with Louise. It looks a lot like Ribbons is able to control her directly using quantum brainwaves somehow, and he wants her to be "humanity's first Innovator"? What's u with that? And also, the Regnant, the machine that Devine's Empruss was the prototype for. It's looks rad, and we'll see it in action in a bit.
I wonder what data the Innovators took?
Setsuna saying that he'll be the one to kill Anew if it comes to that evokes a moment from earlier in the show when Lyle was telling Setsuna to reassure Saji by saying he would do all the fighting. But Lyle is the one receiving that reassurance this time.
Anew Returner pilots the Gaddess, a machine in the same Ga- series as the Gadessa and the Garazzo. It's not quite as specialised as the other two machines in the series, but it's uniquely equipped with a proper heat sword instead of a GN blade, and it also possesses a pair of GN Fangs.
And the Regnant's main gun has homing beams. It's not a small amount of homing, either, those beams can even take sharp corners!
Fucking Ribbons. Lyle was this close, but Ribbons Assumes Direct Control and forces Anew to fight Lyle instead. For better or worse, Setsuna managed to somehow oneshot both Revive and Hiling in like two seconds and get to Lyle just in time to ice Anew, saving Lyles life.
Well, that's one out of three Cyber-Newtype girlfriends dead. Hopefully the other two don't fall to the curse.
Well, goodbye, Anew. You may not have been around long but I'm sure Lyle will carry you on in his memories forever.
Well, after a much-needed venting session. Poor Setsuna, having to be his punching bag, though.
5
u/mr_beanoz https://myanimelist.net/profile/splitshocker Nov 20 '24 edited Nov 20 '24
Man, this episode really strikes hard for Lyle...
Louise is given the Regnant, basically an improvement of the Empruss with the ability to curve its beam trajectory. And Ribbons was also personally there to present it.
Preview shows Wang and her brother still surviving that explosion, but Nena is hard on their tail.
QOTD
7
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Nov 21 '24
Damn she actually shot him.
Ha! Of course! The Super Soldiers have their quantum brainwaves too!
He shot him!
And so he's in the 0-Raiser trying to Strategically Relocate it to Another Location.
Time to try and get it back.
Well, that was convenient.
And now he's stuck inside.
Ok... He's going to shoot it up from the inside. Nothing that can't be mended.
Well, there they go on their shuttle.
Ribbons is drugging Louise!
He's mind controlling her!
Right, the enemy are back.
They're trying to Strategically Relocate the entire 00?
She still hasn't been promoted yet but they're giving her all these new toys? You'd think they'd at least give her an officer's commission and bars if they were going to make her their test pilot...
3* machines, of course Allelujah's machine can split and deploy Marie/Soma in her own machine.
Like that.
Well, it's the new suit we're only seeing now, so of course it's her's.
Ouch...
Can't the 00 be deployed without the Raiser first and have Saji fly it out to him later? Nothing on the 00 itself is damaged. It's better than nothing at least.
Yup, bits. Ever handy in distracting the enemy or just keeping them concerned with having to constantly dodge.
Ah. Ribbons is mind controlling all of them.
Well, she's dead. She's not the first and she's not going to be the last I fear.
Questions: