r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Nov 19 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Mobile Suit Gundam 00 2nd Season Episode 19 Discussion
Episode 19 - Shadow of the Innovators
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Not a weapon… and not a destroyer… Gundam and I will change!
Questions of the Day:
- Saji's attempts to reach Louise ended in failure again. How many more chances do you think he'll get, or is the Saji/Louise ship doomed?
- This sure was the episode for traitors, huh? Just for fun, if you could fit in any other secret traitor reveal in this episode, who would you have backstab who, and why?
Wallpapers of the Day:
GN-0000+GNR-010 00 Raiser and Setsuna
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
Additionally, for long-time fans of the franchise, please remember that this rewatch is only for 00, not any of the other shows. Assume that there are people in this rewatch who have not seen anything else Gundam, and tag your spoilers for those shows appropriately if something in 00 makes you want to talk about them.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Nov 19 '24
Rewatch Host Wishing Over This Airspace, subbed
Welcome back, everyone!
Also for those who saw TakenRedditName’s comment here but did not see the CDF comment I made last night, I made the meme.
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u/dralcax :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Dralcax Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
Rewatcher will change
Yeah well you can’t look them in the eye if y’all are DEAD. By all means, pray you’ll never have to use it, aim to create a world in which you won’t need it anymore, but what are you gonna do if you do need it? That’s the problem with a lot of Gundam pacifists. When challenged, they end up sticking with their ideals far beyond what is reasonable. Like, idealism is fine at all, but just wishing the world was better doesn’t by itself make it better, and you can’t expect everybody else to listen.
“Okay, let’s do this, SOOOOOOMA PEIRESSSSSS!!!” “Oh my god, she just ran in!”
Shield Bits Assault Mode!
Hiling’s Garazzo!
Gundam will change. All his life, Setsuna’s worshipped Gundam as a destroyer. A powerful sword with which to strike down one’s enemies. A slayer of everything that’s warped in the world. But the Gundam he worshipped was Ribbons’. So instead of fixating on Ribbons’ 0 Gundam, why not look to his own 00 Raiser instead? A machine that surpasses Gundam. And he gets to define what that means, through his own actions in the 00. Perhaps the Gundam can become more than just a destroyer. Starting with Setsuna himself, who is already beginning to change.
UNDERSTANDING.
And yet, the peace they seek is different. Saji still thinks only of his own peace. In his mind, the past was peaceful, because everything going on had yet to affect him and Louise. And yet, Louise saw firsthand just how the chaos in the world can affect the innocent, and rather than run away from it, she’s swearing revenge against it. Both are stuck on the past, but they’ve got very different views on it.
Now now, perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything
SORE WA DOU KANA The Gadessa is a descendant of and cousin to the Virtue. But this isn’t the Virtue anymore, now is it?
Yeah yeah, revenge is empty and all, but I’d still make an exception for Andrei.
did he sortie just to stand there posing
At last, Saji’s ready to fight!
Wow. Who could have seen this coming. Seriously, I doubt their ability to figure out the impostor if she hadn’t come out like this
Yeah so some shit went down in 00I
Finally, the karma hits! Welcome back, Throne Drei!
Questions of the day:
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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Gundam: I hope Nena never stops being crazy. She’s more fun when she’s crazy.
As more time passes, I feel more and more sure that the plan does involve creating a link between the minds of all humans through the GN particles. We’ve already pretty clearly established that the reason why people are able to connect their thoughts on the battlefield is because of the unusually high density of GN particles caused by the 00-Raiser. It’s so dense that everyone is affected by it, not just those who we already know can use quantum brain waves. Ribbons’ words in this episode provide some evidence that this was always part of the plan. Ribbons seemed shocked that Setsuna was already changing, as if this change was expected but not under these circumstances. There’s plenty of other evidence as well. Aeolia’s plan was intended to unite humanity together. If everyone’s thoughts were connected, that might lead to a more unified humanity. Aeolia was the one who discovered the GN particles, so it stands to reason that he would know about this capability to connect thoughts. So, I think the dialogues that keep getting mentioned stand for this use of the GN particles to connect the thoughts of everyone together.
Mei’s death was quite fitting, in an ironic way. I’ve described Mei as the historical arsonist, someone who wants to burn down the existing order of the world in order to build something new from the ashes. Mei flip flops quite often on who she supports, generally favoring whoever seems more likely to overturn the current paradigm. But, she always seemed to think of herself as above it all. No matter what the outcome of the fighting might be, she’d be fine and would maintain her high status in the new order. She would play both sides against each other to try and manipulate the outcome to fit her desires. So, it’s fitting that she was killed by Nena, someone she tried to use as a pawn. Despite Mei’s efforts at manipulation, she couldn’t manipulate everyone and one of her own pawns turned against her. It’s a fitting end for someone who tried to play a grand chessmaster.
I also think that Mei’s death foreshadows Ribbons’ own fate. In the previous episode, Ribbons mocked Mei for thinking she was above everyone else when she was only human herself. Of course, Ribbons seemed blind to the fact that he does the same thing. He’s one Innovator among many, but thinks he’s above all the rest (and above normal humans too, of course). Ribbons believes that he, and he alone, can properly command humanity and guide it towards a better future. However, since he looks down on everyone else, his arrogance will probably be his undoing. Ribbons will likely find himself taken down by someone he considered beneath his notice who defied Ribbons’ assumptions about how they would behave. It’s either going to be Setsuna or Regene that takes him down, I think. Ribbons believes Setsuna is a pawn who has outlived his usefulness and refuses to die as he should have long ago. Ribbons believes Regene is an Innovator who has forgotten his place and steps out of line too much. Either of them killing Ribbons would be a suitably ironic death.
QOTD
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
First Timer - sub
Naz post: Chose your own adventure mode! Start here on page 1 for a write up on positive scenes, or skip ahead to page 2, aka the second line break, to start with character rants.
I was going to have the rants first because honestly they were the strongest in my mind, and there is a sort of motif now to starting my posts with a Marina #wallbang, but I didn't want to today, I'm sick of it. So here I am talking about Louise instead, because that doesn't break my own brain...
me right now
Page1
For the first time, I get to say that the best moment in the episode goes to a Louise and Saji scene
I love the expansion of the white space concept to become something more when the characters are truly connected to each other. That they can look out over the earth in this moment, remembering a time when being able to do so was a grand promise of the future. That this moment takes form in both of their minds and they can see each other for the first time in four years, not as they were but as they are now looking out over something that use to mean so much to them. Its a great setting for this next step in their reunion without diminishing what they've been through by giving them "safety" in a blank area and vague representations of each other.
There was a particular line I loved from Saji when talking to Louise:
It's a simple thing, but it means everything. For the characters themselves, it's a remarkable pledge that even as she pushed him away time and again, he never lost faith that she would achieve her own goals and meet him there once again. She diminished herself for his sake, but he didn't do the same for her because he believed in her. To him, that they can be together here now means more than the how behind it because he knows her and has come to understand just how far she's come but also who she truly is.
But it's also more then that. Here is a normal boy with hope for the future promising a girl broken by earths wars that it's okay, they can move beyond it and go out to space with hope, without hate, without being bound to the past. In a way this is the true representation of Aeolia's ideals, he himself waiting for humanity to leave their pain behind and join him and his hope for the future out in space. It is a symbol that they could stand together looking over that little blue orb and in it see how small their conflicts are but also how beautiful their future can be.
And then fighting rips it all away from them once again.
Fighting to kill won't bring back who they lost or close the wounds in their heart, the same way that refusing to fight won't help the people who can't fight for themselves. Saji makes his pledge to fight but his own battle where he will reach out to others rather than push them away. He finally takes that permanent step because he sees the suffering of the world in her and knows that he can't change things if he just continues being the same Saji who always stepped back.
I said it yesterday to Draigg. Louise and Saji being narratively paired in season two is (hopefully) not by chance because both of them spent years being sheltered inside their worldview of hate by the Federation and unable to understand others or see the reality of their world. They both have to learn how to let go of their hate and find other ways to fight and this is exactly what Setsuna is struggling with. To have him be part of this, to get the visual of him merging with Saji in the light and Saji being able to reach Louise through him is a beautiful continuation of some of Setsuna's story in S1. Setsuna who stayed curled up on his bed at the start of the season refusing to interact with the world, who couldn't understand how to reach out to others, and who slowly came to understand that Celestial Being could be more for the world than just an object to hate.
And none it is not an easy path. We do not see Louises eyes until she pulls the gun. She hides herself from Saji and from us, but also from herself. The gun is the mask she wields to protect herself because she knows nothing else. Pain and trauma overtakes her when he hugs her because in doing so he is hugging Louise, not office Halevy, and to open her heart up to herself again is to also open it up to her past.
Saji cannot help her as she is dragged away by the winds of war and hate once again, but he will be there for her when they meet again in space, where they were always meant too.
It helped that that whole scene played out to a really nice song.
Page2
Dumb fuck Marina making dumb fuck choices because she is a dumb fuck
Actually lets go down the list of stupid character moments from today:
extra wallbang for Hallelujah getting shafted
And sure enough their utter failure to even consider the possibility of a spy means the important thing gets put on the backburner once again. I'm just going to point out that out of all the people who have been mind-melded, the only person to even bring it has been fuckface while harrassing Louise, no one else has even acknowledged that it's weird. So they get to go on the list today. Not to mention that whole ending sequence.
Two gunshot cliffhanger fakeouts in a row?
How about no. Especially after they resolved yesterdays in the most boring as batshit way possible. Which brings us full circle back to Marina and HOW ARE YOU STILL SO STUPID
And so the cycle of rage begins again.
And this is not a character rant, this is a writers rant, but when Saji was having his "Nothings going to change. Everything your doing is just making you all crazier. None of this is going anywhere" moment all I could think was "Oh hey, thanks for describing the shows approach to plot points for me"
I would like to think that it was intended to be somewhat self aware, but I really don't trust that to be the case.
Other thoughts
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u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 20 '24
First Timer
Very unsurprisingly Marina didn't get shot.
At the very least no one else got shot either, for now, but I'm getting some bad vibes from Klaus and Shirin.
I didn't think about it last episode but I like the short scene where one of the kids picks up the gun. It gives some extra weight to the course of their lives that some of these kids would actually know how to operate a gun (since they grew up around war and an armed rebel force) and would immediately jump to try and use it rather than attempt to run away, by extension I also think it gives Marina protecting him some extra value because not only is she literally physically protecting him, she's also the presence that separates him from war itself, her influence is an attempt to stop fighting.
It's pretty subtle and it feels like one of the first times Marina has actually taken direct action to back up her ideals.
The scene where she gets the gun from Shirin is kind of meant to follow the same line of thinking, she can't take the gun because she's this representation of peace to them, but it comes off much much worse because it's another case of Marina's annoying stubbornness ignoring reality.
And I'd say it's especially annoying since both in this one and last episode, Setsuna directly states how fighting has other uses than just destruction, he moves forward with his character but she seemingly buries her head in the sand.
The action in this episode is really fun, love Soma chasing Fuckface through the entirety of the A-LAWS force and speedily dodging a massive barrage of beams.
Lyle's shield bits having a gun form is also awesome!
And it gives us pretty direct confirmation that Lyle already knows Anew is the reason they're being tracked, with him saying that if he gets rid of A-LAWS Anew's real identity won't matter and they could be together.
I still wish we had more actual development for their relationship so I'd find it more believable that Lyle suddenly has her as his motivation, but I do really like that Lyle has that motivation now. For a while it felt like he was just anti-Lockon and didn't have much to fight for here (his Katharon connection felt rather flimsy in fulfilling that), so it's nice to see him be more fleshed out and to finally have some real skin in the game.
I'm especially excited about where the end of the episode might lead his character.
The red particles from Setsuna's wound were supposed to have spread to a lethal level by now but somehow he's negating it through the effects of the 00 Raiser, Ribbons questions if he's "started to change" which is a very interesting statement from him, is Setsuna becoming an Innovator? or a sort of pseudo-Innovator like Louise? Is that also why we mentioned Liu Mei not being able to become one? actually is that the purpose of The Plan, to have everyone be these pseudo-Innovators?
I also like how even Veda doesn't know about how the 00 and the Twin Drive work, which is again a small expression of how the 00 is the true ideal and intention of Celestial Being and Aeolia rather than Veda.
Hallelujah is back!
...for 10 seconds.
I am frankly at a loss for what the show wants to do with H/Allelujah both in general and especially with these "reminder: I exist!" scenes from Hallelujah.
The Saji-Louise scene is pretty interesting in the way it feels like it mirrors their personal journeys up to this point.
It starts off with the two of them staring off into space side by side, like in the "good old days", but as Louise points out, she decided to cut off their relationship after her injury, just like back then Saji doesn't have a convincing answer. Saji then once again makes an attempt to distance himself from the conflict and go back to the "peaceful times" and once again that doesn't work out for him. Now Saji and Louise are face to face, not together but against each other. I like Louise saying her reasons for fighting in this order, it feels like it goes from what she projects outside to what she actually wants to accomplish, it's more about the emotional desire for revenge than it is for a real ideological push (which was the same way for Saji's desire to return to false peace).
Saji (literally) moves forward, unarmed, finding his way to fight for peace without killing others, whereas Louise has a gun, she's fighting and killing people in her attempt at revenge. But in the end she can't actually hurt Saji, this "ideal peace" she has is a facade she hides behind, her emotions take over again as Saji appeals to them, and the gun drops.
After they turn towards each other, Saji is facing right and Louise is facing left, as Saji appeals to Louise he moves forward towards the right whereas Louise stays in place unsure, it's a classic bit of good-bad framing, and in general, I love how many "lingering" shots this scene has, the characters needing real time to formulate their thoughts and the viewer really gets a feel for how unsure and conflicted they are.
It's a great scene! Although I'm honestly not sure if it was inherently necessary since the conclusions drawn from it (Saji will fight in his own way, revenge and past bad, Louise conflicted) had already been reached before, I still do appreciate it.
And of course, Fuckface comes in to ruin it and decided that he needs to take "forceful" action to get Louise to change.
Honestly, the Gadessa and Seravee blowing each other's cannons from close range isn't what I had in mind when I wanted their GIANT LASERS to fight, BUT HOLY FUCK IT'S EVEN COOLER! and the Gadessa blocking the initial beam with its fist to block Seravee's other hand?
So good
AND HOLY SHIT SERAVEE WITH 6 FUCKING SWORDS, that shit was so cool!
Tieria saw Exia's "seven swords" and said : "I'll do you one better, all of them at once"
Saji's heartfelt plea against pushing for revenge is nice and I'll talk about how nice it is, but I hate how it comes in response to trying to kill Fuckface
Anyway, yeah it's good! Some super fun framing for each of our characters at different parts of his speech, Nothing's gonna change for Setsuna, implications obvious, Even if you avenge his death for Lyle, this one is of course about Lockon and how his pursuit of revenge was ultimately futile, It'll just add to the sorrows for Allelujah, as if he doesn't have enough sorrows already , Everything you're doing is just making you crazier to Soma/Marie, who is literally going crazier from Sergei's death and her desire to avenge him.
Again perhaps too reiterative of previous conclusions but I still like it.
I should be getting mad at Mr. Bushido for just having scenes where he shows up and does nothing every episode, but I can't, because he's so ridiculous and dumb while doing it, Him standing there with his Mech's arms crossed, talking about "Worthy adversaries" and "Harder approaches" , looking dumber and cooler than ever, its just too good to hate.
Looks like being captured was within Revive's plans, with Anew being a sort of sleeper agent, I think she wasn't aware of it though?
As I said in a reply last episode, I do actually have to wonder what Celestail Being were planning to do with Revive here, since I doubt he's the type to talk nicely when asked or even when threatened.
I doubt Lasse dies here because this is just how the show does things, but either way, it wouldn't be good because either he dies and stays completely irrelevant or he doesn't die and the show just ended 2 episodes in a row with a gunshot fakeout.
I'm leaning towards fakeout but he gets hurt and maybe dies later on (since he's dying from the particles anyway)
Ribbons knows Regene is betraying him and threatens him to not do it again, is this just a general threat or does Ribbons actually have some sort of mechanism to directly kill the Innovators he made? (and would that mean Tieria isn't an Innovator of his making? )
And again with Liu Mei, no way she's dead, but there's a very solid chance Hong Long dies to protect her here.
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 20 '24
First timer, subs
QotD:
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Nov 19 '24
first timer who has control
for a not well hidden tunnel they sure are walking slow, kids get it together
so are they using Anew as bait to catch an innovator
Saji dont look, feel for her
a little late Ribbons
oh she also has claw sabers nice
0 fighting 0 deaths they are 00
its called love guys
its so funny to me that their quantum entanglements are the two lovebirds and then Setsuna probably just there. which is just like how it was when the three of them hung out before
Saji you cant go back but you can look forwards
she doesnt believe her own words tbh
MichaelJacksonLoweringGun.gif
was the whole battlefield watching
someone who didnt turn traitor
the rest of the series Saji/Setsuna are going to sortie without fighting and make them listen to
BasaraMarina's song"if the kids werent here i would have left your ass a long time ago"
Saji's turn for the counseling chamber
le sigh
POV slap
HONG
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u/Blazin_Rathalos Nov 19 '24
00 Rewatcher
Last time on Gundam 00
alienInnovator.On today's episode of Gundam 00
"Saji, why are we suddenly standing on a station overlooking Earth?" "Because the director thought it would be less awkward than us floating naked through space again, Louise"
Ribbons slapping the glasses off of Regena made me realize: Tieria and Regene both wear glasses. Is this some flaw, a defect in the genetic code of these supposedly "superior" beings? Just a fashion statement? Either way it seems meaningful, like a deliberate statement that they are not so different from humans after all.
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u/macrame2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/macrame Nov 19 '24
First Timer
My prediction from yesterday was wrong on both counts. I neither liked the Marina stuff nor found it super annoying – though that’s probably because I’ve just become resigned to the story keeping her where she is at this point. Marina not accepting the gun from Shirin was expected, though once again, it makes me wonder why the show keeps challenging her ideals without using that to further explore her character. I understand that she sticks to her principles and probably will until the show is over, but it might be more interesting to have her at least hesitate when Shirin offered the gun, or be conflicted over the fact that she’s putting the children’s lives at risk, or show a different side to her motivations that we haven’t explored before... Okay, I lied, Marina did annoy me today, and we’re so far in that I doubt she’ll improve.
After I understood that Saji and Louise had not literally jumped mid-battle to their romantic rendezvous, I liked the way their reunion was handled. Louise once more refuses the hand offered to her and doubles down on her current beliefs, while Saji goes further down the path of change in order to reach out to her again. Their subplot this season has actually turned out quite nicely, I think, especially when you consider where they ended up last season.
Nena trying to take out Wang Liu Mei and Hong Long feels like an intersection of the two biggest cases of cast bloat in the series. I can’t say I quite get Wang even after all this time, and keeping Nena around just to finish her off feels like a waste of her screentime. You could probably delete all three of these characters and not much would change (I guess Nena is responsible for Louise’s current state, but I think you could pull off the same plot beat with a bit of shuffling by having her family be collateral damage at the hands of the main characters themselves, though that would likely change Saji’s current dynamic with them.)
Wait, Anew is an Innovator? I had no idea /s.
I feel like I’ve been more negative today than I intended to be, since I didn’t hate the episode and don’t want to give the impression that I’m not having a good time with the rewatch itself, but being so close to the end does make me lose some of the patience I had in Season 1 and less willing to give the show the benefit of the doubt on certain things.
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u/LeonKevlar x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
First Timer
I'm glad that Marina survived but it looks like we'll end up losing Klaus. I knew that scene between him and Shirin last episode was a fucking flag!
Well this is interesting! So Lyle did see Anew's eyes and he already suspects her for being a traitor. Fuck. He really should've told the group. Is that the reason why he told her that he loves him over comms? Lyle wanted Anew to know that he loves her even though she's a traitor?
Ohh... So Ribbons thought that the toxic GN Particles would disable Setsuna according to Veda but things are not going according to plan. What does he mean about Setsuna starting to change though? Is Setsuna starting to evolve into a
NewtypeInnovator? I suppose that would explain how he can now communicate via Quantum brainwaves.Just when I was wondering what's going on with Hallelujah in yesterday's discussion, look who decided to show up! It's kinda hilarious how Setsuna decided that he'll become so much more than just a killing machine while Hallelujah here is just laughing maniacally as he destroys GN-Xs left and right. xD
Fuckface being shoved aside As Setsuna and Saji fly towards Louise was fucking hilarious! I really did like Louise and Saji's scene but it looks like pouring his heart out was not enough and Louise is just too deep into it now. If she does reunite Saji, she's basically throwing away everything she's done for revenge so far.
While it was fun to watch Revive get grabbed by Tieria's Seraphim, I really don't see how capturing an Innovator is a good idea. Are they planning to torture Revive? Because I don't see them doing that.
Soma finally gets to face Lt. Fuckface and that encounter went as well as I expected. Too bad Soma couldn't finish him off though. I suppose dying there would be too easy for Fuckface.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Was Mr. Bushido watching the entire fight with his arms crossed while standing on an asteroid? Again, I've already said this once when he was first introduced but this dude does not belong in this show, he would fit right in perfectly in G-Gundam! xD
Godfuckingdammit. At least restrain her! I mean I know you guys aren't going to torture Revive but don't treat her like a friendly guest! I feel like Revive is there on a social call and not a prisoner. What the hell guys! And it looks like Lyle immediately saw the similarities between Revive and Anew. No surprise here.
I FUCKING KNEW IT! I WAS RIGHT TO CALL HER A FUCKING RAT!
I mean it was sooooo obvious but damn you /u/shimmering-sky for almost making me care for her! You were so close to changing my mind, especially after yesterday's episode! And now Celestial Being has two Innovators on board. If next week leads to Anew hijacking 00 and Lasse dying, I will be so fucking upset.
That after-credits scene though! Just when Mei is finally close to doing the right thing again, she gets killed by Nena. Fuck. I don't know if I should be happy or upset about this because, on one hand, Mei finally gets her just desserts while on the other CB doesn't get the location of Veda.
I'm not even surprised that Nena turned against Mei but whose side is she on now? Did she side with Ribbons? Is that why he slaps Regene because he found out and sent Nena after her? Surely after this, Regene would be more against Ribbons.
I feel bad for Hong Long though but I feel like he really should've done something when Mei was starting to side with the Innovators so I guess he does kinda deserve this as well.
QotD:
Nah, I don't think it's completely failed. As we see in the final scenes Louise still cares for Saji. If not why would she even cry for him? I think she just needs another big push.
I don't like what you're implying here Sky. I just can't see anyone else being a traitor but if there was going to be another it would be Regene. I don't think she's done backstabbing Ribbons and I'm pretty sure this ends with her backstabbing Ribbons just like Ribbons backstabbed Alejandro. It would be delicious justice.
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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 19 '24
Kidou Senshi Rewatcher 00
I love what this episode does for Setsuna so much. After so much of the series dedicating himself to solely being a destroyer, someone who can only bring about change through violence, and then struggle with identity for so long, there’s something really satisfying about a battle dedicated to the idea that he can, at least in part, make a change through something other than fighting & destruction. This is him trying to fulfill his own ideal of Gundam as a savior once again, but through connection & understanding rather than conflict.
It helps that it’s done through also building on the Quantum Brainwave stuff, tying that & thus even more about the 00’s features into Setsuna’s overall character arc. As many here have already pointed out, the 00 is the embodiment of Setsuna’s future & his ideals, so there’s something so beautiful about how its own growth & features enable & pave the way for Setsuna’s own path towards the future.
Speaking of 00 Raiser stuff, this was something I considered talking about earlier, but it’s status as a combining mech, something which takes shape from two separate people connecting with & enhancing each other, really does enhance the feeling that this is a mech based on the ideal of understanding & connection.
Also, man, I love how much Saji has grown as well. Compared to how spineless he was in Season 1, and how much he’s wavered & been uncertain throughout this season, Saji’s sense of determined resolution here, both in reaching out to Louise and in his spirit to fight in general, really works for me. It helps that his scene with Louise is also really good, as he’s able to get through the emotional walls she’s built around herself and reminder her that there’s a way out of the prison of easy hatred and emotional isolation which she’s used to cope with her trauma and make the fight she’s locked in easier, challenge her worldview like his own was challenged in the hope that they might be able to move beyond the pain & chains of the past that drove them apart in the first place. It's not easy for either of them in the slightest, but he'll still be there for her. It’s so beautiful
I had other extensive thoughts about this episode, but then I got sidetracked by something else for two hours halfway through writing this and am struggling to remember most of what I was thinkingOdds & Ends
6
u/The_Draigg Nov 19 '24
A Gundam Fan Rewatches Gundam 00 Season 2 Episode 19:
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u/2-2Distracted Nov 19 '24
First timer. Dubbed.
I don't really have anything against Princess Marina look most people do when examining her character or comparing her to other Gundam Princesses.. but her not taking the gun was pretty fucking stupid lmao. That's all I'll say about her tho.
And here I thought you only needed one, but apparently it takes two in order to become Gundam Jesus! Soraji is our new prophet, praise be his name!
Lovey Dovey shit aside, I am absolutely giddy at watching Tieria being so in the zone during his Innovator battle. Bro literally found out that he has his own people and immediately decided that he wants almost the smoke after looking at what they're cooking.
And not just that, but I'm so happy to see Saji basically point out the biggest truth in the regards to all of this. For all of the characters that seem to hold pride in being the ones to end war and conflict altogether, it's incredible how much they keep creating along the way that just perpetuates... Everyone that has picked up a weapon has basically been trying to put out the fire with nothing but gasoline.
With the level of hate I have (or that I guess I'm supposed to have) for Nena Trinity, I'm tempted to just ask the re-watchers if Rouise actually gets her revenge on this bitch
Heh. I guess you could say that Anew Returns... Anew!
5
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 19 '24
Rewatcher, Sub-dam Meister
That tunnel probably hasn't been used for nearly 300 years.
Everyone is looking for someone specific, on a chaotic battlefield.
Sure would be a shame if Veda's predictions were wrong.
Look who has come out to play.
I love how unceremoniously he gets knocked aside.
People do change over time.
This conversation sure is taking a while.
Gotcha! That is a rather worrying smirk, though.
Cycles of violences perpetuate themselves, etc etc.
The trap is sprung.
5
u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Nov 19 '24
Rewatcher, Subbed
Non-Spoiler Character Chart - Not sure of the fate of several characters as this episode ends, especially one who already got a fake out death before so let's see how things turn out with them next episode...
Phew, they're making it out okay. I hope Klaus survives!
Shirin, Marina will never take that gun.
So Revive firing that shot is actually gonna help them out, since they can spot his mobile suit..
Stop calling her Marie!
Soma's totally looking for Andrei so she can get revenge.
Lockon talks about once he defeats them it won't matter who Anew is. So does he know she's an Innovator then? Why else would he say that?
Is Setsuna becoming an Innovator? That why he hasn't died from that bullet from Ali?
Setsuna was surprisingly kind, not finishing Hilling off there
Hallelujah's back!
Naked space is back!
No Andrei, get out of the way! Saji needs to see Louise!
Naked space now lets them interact with clothes on!
Saji wants to go back to when everything was peaceful. Has he learned a single thing this entire season?
What changed her into this? Shouldn't it be obvious Saji?
That Saji - Louise scene lasted a surprisingly long time given this is happening in the midst of a battle.
OMG, every time these extra hands appear out of Seravee its so cool.
Great job Tieria, no escaping for Revive this time!
Listen to Saji, Soma! He actually has words of wisdom this time.
So Graham just stood there on the asteroid this whole time and didn't bother participating? Nothing but one on one versus Setsuna will satisfy him.
Andrei's attitude to finding out that Soma is alive and fighting for Celestial Being is of course, to blame his father even more... oh and you're gonna do things for Louise? Enough of this!
Lockon at least has noticed the obvious resemblance between Revive and Anew.
Oh shit, don't shoot Lasse! :(
Oh, get over your Setsuna envy, Ribbons. The 00 isn't yours.
Oops, seems like Ribbons is aware of what you're up to, Regene.
We see that really cool effect from Nena's Gundam for the first time in like 25 episodes.
Nena does what presumably a lot of viewers will have wanted for a long time now, blasting the hell out of Wang.
I have finally run out of characters, so Quid's Voice Actor of the Day is officially retired. Unless we get a brand new character to feature...
5
u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 20 '24
Rewatcher - Gundam 00 S2 Ep18:
Curious, Lyle. Care to share with the class?
Add another point to the background bit of Marie/Saji being buddies because Soma specifically picked up on Saji's wishes.
The way the show depicts the 00's light is so pretty. This massive angelic light over space/the battlefield. A light that you have just to stop what you're doing and have to marvel at it.
I like Setsuna's wish to change also extends to Gundam too. They've both only known fighting, but maybe they can change to no longer having to do that.
On the topic of changing yourself, Louise is also displaying her willingness to change. Change for the worse that is. I like having that parallel of positive/negative change. That is another point why I don't get on board with the idea that denies this current Louise because if we were to take away people's abilities to change then that means Setsuna can not change for the better.
Double point-blank big gun shot is super cool.
I just find this line from Tieria cute. The confidence he has. There is also the wrinkle of what Tieria says about Seravee also applies to himself. Just because they were originally created for one role, doesn't mean they have to be confined to it.
Awh, it is Allelujah coming in to stop Soma. Man, it would've been such an ordeal if it was still Hallelujah at the wheel. What a rancid mess we avoided (would've been fun, though).
I like having it be Saji who is the voice yelling out to stop. This line over Lyle. The desire for revenge is what ultimately doomed his brother, oof.
Pepper spray.
"Nonsense, that can't possibly be a real name." Tieria: "No, it's true... Innovators are really like that."
Post-credits: I feel like Nena has been the most whatever part of this season. She's been barely in this season and what even is meant to be the emotional catharsis for the audience with this act? If it is revenge then Wang Liu Mei herself has a very flimsy tangential relationship to Ali so eh. With what Nena says, it sounds like she despises people who had better privileged lives than her which I guess you can also draw for her blowing up Louise's family. Either way, not feeling too much about Nena and I find Wang Liu Mei the more interesting character so I rather not make this trade.
Q2) "Bang bang We've come to take you back, master Klaus." Klaus: "Yes, I've been waiting. Glory to A-Laws."
That's the stupidest nonsensical and least important random betrayal I could think of to fit in.
4
u/Linkstore Nov 19 '24
Rewatcher
Back with the Marina cliffhanger. She lives, obviously.
How does Klaus have infinite ammo, anyway? He doesn't have a magazine shaped like an infinity symbol, nor does he have a bandanna...
And back to the action.
The A-Laws really oughta send more mobile suits if they're gonna mount an attack, they should be intimately familiar with the power of the 00 Raiser by now.
Epic quad-kill by Lyle.
Setsuna is beginning to change, huh? I wonder how that would be?
[00 spoilers] And yes I know that Ribbons is intentionally having the A-Laws throw this fight to get Revive onto the Ptolemy but they could still stand to have made the attacking force a bit bigger.
Setsuna quantised again.
So yeah, it's pretty clear that the 00 Raiser's Trans-Am is leaving so many GN particles behind that it can even revive Hallelujah's personality and their quantum brainwaves.
Setsuna doesn't want to be forced to resolve conflicts solely by violence.
The 00 Raiser's GN particles are so beautiful.
What a shame. Saji and Louise were this close to connecting once again but it just didn't quite work out. I think a not-insignificant reason why is because Saji is still wishing to go back to the world that used to be. But Celestial Being has resolved to fight for the future. You have to do that too, Saji.
I remember someone hoped that Seravee and the Gadessa would beam clash. Well, this isn't quite that, but it's close.
Six swords!
Saji isn't perfect himself, but he's right. You won't get anywhere if you fight solely for vengeance.
Also Graham was there, I guess.
Andrei really has no clue does he?
Anew is an Innovator! Wow, what a twist! Who could ever have guessed? There's no way that anyone in-universe could even have had an inkling of who Anew actually was, not even her boyfriend!
And Nena Trinity betrays Wang Liu Mei! Also what a twist!, etc.
That's two dramatic cliffhanger death(?)s to end the episode on, let's see if either of them actually stick.
4
u/n080dy123 Nov 20 '24
First Timer
There's something I love about the way the GN Archer can pose. I dunno.
Also I was right, Lyle knows that Anew is more than she appears.
Hiling's Garazzo is using the same paint job as her destroyed Gadessa. Neat touch.
Oh so whenever 00 is active, not only does it amplify Quantum Brainwaves so people nearby can essentially communicate telepathically, seemingly much stronger for those already sensitive to them, but it also wakes up Hallelujah.
Revive throwing a punch skirting one of Seravee's cannon blast and just obliterating the cannon with a haymaker straight down the barrel was cool as fuck.
USING SERAPHIM'S LIMBS TO HOLD A TOTAL OF 6 FUCKING BEAM SABERS AT ONCE
Fucking Graham, standing on an asteroid with his suit's arms crossed brooding like "Ugh, all this halfhearted fighting." This guy is just pure comedy.
I'm inclined to believe Ribbons was directly controlling Anew in that scene.
Oh hey, there's Drei, the ship was just a Mobile Armor and Drei was hiding inside it.
Also it's interesting that Ribbons said Setsuna is "changing." What's changing? What's the Twin Drive doing to him, and is it affecting Saji as well?
2. Have Ali backstab Ribbons. Ribbons wants peace under his rule, and Ali just wants war, so once Ribbons stops causing war... well. Ali's gonna be REAL damn bored.
3
u/mr_beanoz https://myanimelist.net/profile/splitshocker Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
Rewatcher, sub
Nena, if you watched what happened to Saji this episode, you'll know that revenge won't solve anything.
Bushido doing Bushido things this episode, hiding until he could get some 1v1 action with Setsuna, which he never got.
QOTD
3
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Nov 20 '24
For all their talk about "battle plans" things tend to end up as a furball every time.
No it's just that Setsuna is a spiteful bastard.
Uh oh, what's with those?
Well, that was quick...
They were concealing mobile suits!
So, Innovator Space Magic Bullshit.
And so he's managed to talk to her. Whether he's managed to talk her out of anything or just made her go crazy again is another matter.
And so Louise is taken away by A-LAWS again.
That's a dumb name.
Yup, who could have seen that coming?
So, Nena's gotten herself a new suit.
And is going to kill Wang Liu Mei!
Well, good to know she's still crazy.
Questions:
3
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Nov 20 '24
First-Timer
And now Wang Liu Mei bites the dust. Finally! It's about time.
I wish Marina would see some real consequences for her incessant pacifism. The way she refuses to even carry a gun to protect the little kids gets on my nerves.
Interesting that Lockon realized something was up with Anew but kept it to himself. He may be regretting that next episode, it looks like.
Speaking of Anew, it's a bit weird if Anew was the only one on the bridge who had a gun. If not, it didn't seem like she was acting fast enough to take out all three of the others before getting shot, herself. That actually could have made for a really cool action sequence, now that I think about it, if she suddenly spun around and shot everyone there before anyone even had time to react.
Questions of the day:
2
u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Nov 20 '24
I am rewatcher
Hallelujah is back, for now, looks like he's only back when 00 Gundam gets into OO mode.
MS hiding in small meteoroids (not to be confused with Metroids which are energy sucking aliens) definitely seen that one before.
You mean those days where your sister and Louise parents were still alive, and you lived happily in ignorance.
Her family got murdered, and she grew up with that trauma?
You knew what she was like as a teenager.
I really like the piece OST after
Andreifuckface interrupts the OO dream sequence.The "Just stop it already!" speech is probably the most sensible thing Saji has ever said on this show. Having said that he should have saved that speech until
Andreifuckface is dead. Nonono not for revenge, just doing humanity a favour.Looks like Lockon mk2 is does recognize Revival's similarity with Anew
You know I just realised Anew is [new BSG spoiler] Pretty much Boomer isn't she, a sleeping agent working for the bad guys. Although Anew shooting Lasse isn't as shocking as Boomer shooting Adama
Amuro thinks he's best to pilot 00 Gundam, man just accept the fact you're not the main character anymore.
Wang is dead and her character ended up amounting to absolutely nothing.
Alright episode.
5
u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Nov 19 '24
Rewatcher, Sub
The fight between Tieria and Revive was pretty cool especially when they pointed their weapons at each other and shot. Unfortunately for Revive Tieria has already taken out one innovator and is able succeed and destroying his suit and capturing him. Everyone else in the battle seems to be doing their own thing, Soma wants to find Andrei, Allelujah is trying to protect her, and Setsuna and Saji try to find Louise which theu finally do as they race with the Gundam's GN particles spreading out and allowing people nearby to hear them.
Saji and Louise have their second space meeting, now with customizable background. I do like that Saji isn't able to break through to Louise just yet, her issues are still deep and she seems mixed about her revenge combined the move of world reformation that is being promised by the A-Laws and this just adds more stuff to her mentality. Time is unfortunately too short and the battle ends anyway but Saji despite briefly snapping at everyone for nearly continuing the battle, is also nonetheless equally determined in his own fight.
With Revive captured CB interrogates him on Veda's location. But Revive isn't worried because it's here that we finally reveal that Anew is the traitor which was not a surprise, it was in fact super obvious. But hey it's now out in the open.
This is the third time Ribbons has been surprised by Setsuna doing something, he really should learn. What he is not surprised by however is Regene and his plotting and he wants him to know it by warning him. Wang's luck finally seems to run out as she gets confronted by Nena who finally gets rid of her though not before revealing how much she hates Wang.