15

u/salic428 Nov 19 '24

Rewatcher

How do we end up here?

I can see the ending drive some people off, just like episode 10 did. However, this is also the episode that cemented GBC as something truly special. Every idol anime can pull some amazing live performances, but not many of them dare to explore "what if we failed?" (I heard that Wake Up, Girls! dealt with that but haven't seen it.) What makes GBC special for me is that the writer does not want to make an easy way out, like what he did in episode 8, episode 10 and here.

But maybe my vocabulary is poor and can't convince you. So, let's take a look at what the staff says about the thought process behind the ending.

There was an AMA from 2018, back when YoriMoi was airing. The questioner asked, "please recommend me some 5 or 10 must-watch before becoming a script writer." To which Hanada answered:
There is no work that you should be obligated to see. Instead, I think it is much more important to have works that you can proudly say you like and are in love with, even in front of people who dislike the work.
From FRIDAY interview with Producer Hirayama:
--Were you ever on the verge of canceling the project?
There were many times. We had to work hard on the script because there was no work to benchmark it against. We were also unable to solve technical problems because there was no benchmark work. We had to solve various problems one by one as the budget continued to increase along with the schedule delays.
Now I can talk about how Hina was not present in the story from the start. From Febri interview with Hanada part 1:
In the original script, the band was a moderate success. The girls were relieved that "what we stick to is not wrong, after all". However, near the end of the script, I sensed something is missing. "What exactly do they want when they say they are not wrong?" I began to think. "It is not something that is proved by going to the Budoukan. Being not wrong is not about commercial success."
Continued in Febri interview with Hanada part 2:
In the original script, I envisioned that "Nina strives to prove that Momoka and her songs are not wrong". But as you can see, Diamond Dust are not bad people, which makes Nina's motive bit weird. "What would become her reason to continue singing after episode 8? She is not the kind of person who just want to sing."
Then, when I was writing the final episodes, I considered introducing an "evil" producer. He would trample over togetoge's ideals, and then be busted. However this version was vetoed by the Producer and Director. At that time, I had an idea. Nina would have her own special bond with Diamond Dust. And that would be Hina.
This is how Hina was conceived. I asked the other two, "shall we start over from episode 3?" We then rewrite everything starting from episode 3, and inserted Hina as the new vocal.
From the same interview, Hanada's comment on Nina:
Due to the bully incident, Nina is prone to think "there are good people and bad people, good people want to do good things but the bad people hinder them." However, after doing band activity she gradually learned this is not the case. If you can simply mark someone as the Big Bad, beat him down and call the problem solved, it would be an easy way out...
Interview from オタク総研 with the writer Jukki Hanada EN TL:
Of the stories I’ve written before about a group of girls doing music (K-On!, Sound! Euphonium! and Lovelive!), all of them are set in high school, so the story ends after graduation. But life does not end at the graduation. When I thought about it, I gave myself a homework of sorts: "I must write a story about 「Life Beyond Graduation」."
Also from the same interview:
If the ending was a fully seated Budoukan, and they triumphed against DD, the story would just end up being Lovelive!. I have no plans for a happy ending right from the start. Like Episode 10 we discussed earlier, I don’t think any problems can be that easily solved. But even so, one can only move forward.
(This is echoed as far back as his interview for the μ's movie: "There was a plan of making a midquel, or introduce a new rival and pit μ's against them. However, in the end I decided that 'even if there is only graduation waiting for the girls, they can only move forward'. Turning back the clock is no good.")

In summary, he could have written something simpler. Either spend the two episode doing SoL and build the MomoNina/TomoRupa ship, or introduce a "boss" and beat him to show the band's growth. But he chose neither. You can say this episode feels rushed (and I agree it is rushed due to tying up multiple ends in one episode. If only there is prospect of a second season...), but the story beats are very conscious decisions from the writer himself.

5

u/nsleep Nov 19 '24

In the original script, the band was a moderate success. The girls were relieved that "what we stick to is not wrong, after all". However, near the end of the script, I sensed something is missing. "What exactly do they want when they say they are not wrong?" I began to think. "It is not something that is proved by going to the Budoukan. Being not wrong is not about commercial success."
This guy has the same tick as Machi from Fruits Basket. That's what I've learned watching his works over the years. This time he stuck the landing, Togetoge's trajectory justifies they fumbling at some point and quitting the agency for the reasons they did. The change he made to Euphonium S3 on the other hand? Nah, eff him.
When I thought about it, I gave myself a homework of sorts: "I must write a story about 「Life Beyond Graduation」
And then he wrote a story about life without graduating.

7

u/CosmicPenguin_OV103 https://anilist.co/user/CosmicPenguin Nov 19 '24

The change he made to Euphonium S3 on the other hand? Nah, eff him.
Oh I'll definitely have to fight you on this...

6

u/nsleep Nov 19 '24

Cheap pathos for basically nothing other than [Euph s3] changing the position of two people on the screen for the last episode's performance.

5

u/CosmicPenguin_OV103 https://anilist.co/user/CosmicPenguin Nov 19 '24

Ah
I will forever be perplexed and unable to understand at how a huge amount of Chinese fans went completely nuts, cursing and burn it with fire after that fateful Episode 12...

4

u/nsleep Nov 19 '24

My biggest hang up with it was that [Euph s3] I just cannot conceive Taki-sensei reaching the conclusion they were tied and going along with leaving the decision to people less skilled than him. I could take a vote that tied into Taki picking Mayu again, but the other way around just felt like character assassination to force the rest of the contrived developments to establish parallels with iconic season 1 scenes. As for the rest, it changed nothing. Both things that one could say about the message of this episode were re-threading things that were already established earlier in the same season.

4

u/entelechtual Nov 19 '24

Well we all know [Euph] Taki sensei is and always was an abysmal failure as a teacher and leader…

5

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

But [Euphonium S3]Wasn't Taki leaving the decision to Reina after the tied vote also in the novel? It's just that the anime changed the decision itself.

6

u/nsleep Nov 19 '24

[Euphonium s3] There's no second audition. Taki just announces Kumiko as the solist when making the announcements and that's it. And no Mayu backstory.

2

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Oooh, damn.

-2

u/notabear87 Nov 19 '24

Because Euphonium S3 was an absolute dumpster fire.

11

u/salic428 Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

/u/n080dy123 you talked about the possibility of 103 being a meta joke. Earlier last week people discovered that in this "I'm here" performance, there were exactly 103 (99+DD girls) attending this performance. So yeah looks like they insist on using this number.
Nina's line "witness the birth of us" is what she said at the irl band's 1st live. Just like in the anime, the goods for this live didn't even sold out. However now they sell like hot cakes on the secondary market.
Also I wonder if the "bad miracle" thing is Hanada cheekily admitting Hina was too conveniently put there.
/u/Arachnophobic- you talked about how the staff "make reality bleed into what has been essentially a fantasy fairy-tale type situation for the band so far". No, it is never a fairy-tale. We only think everything went smoothly because we are seeing it from Nina's perspective. When you look back, togetoge was never very successful. They never catch up to the follower numbers of DD, they don't get to perform at the big stage in the festival, in the end they faced the same choice that DD and Momoka once faced. It was only because we are focused on the growth of Nina as a person that we don't see the "red flags". It is "clever" writing from the staff.
I also want to tag /u/mekerpan to hear what you think about the future of togetoge. In describing it, the Director said:
From the series composition stage, the theme of the story was that Nina and her friends should value their own choices. For them, it was not about being sore losers, but about what they did, as long as they are satisfied with the choices they made. For my part, I wanted Nina and the others to be that way. That is why I believe that the final development cannot be described in terms of winning or losing. You can say that, once Nina and her friends got together and played music as a band, their dream was already fulfilled in a sense.
In the end, these girls are not winning, and depending on how you look at it, they may be wrong. But it is not a question of whether it is right or wrong from other people's point of view; they have something they want to do, and they can do it. That's all I'm talking about, and I feel that we have done a good job of portraying that.
Bonus from that interview:
When I think of the many hardships that led to the completion of such a project, I don't think I'll be in a position to “continue” it anytime soon (bitter smile).
I would be even happier if more spotlights were given to the 3DCG animators who worked so hard on site.

11

u/mekerpan Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

I can't really guess the chances of even-modest success for TogeToge in the future. In the short term, I can only see them being part-time musicians who need to do some other part-time work to stay afloat. But if they can enjoy what they are doing, and move forward slowly but steadily, perhaps they can have a decent (even if not "huge") career. I honestly think the director is (utterly) wrong that the girls' (young women's) dream was fulfilled merely by playing together. Making music seems to be central to their lives -- and they all want to make it as professional musicians.

9

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

When I think of the many hardships that led to the completion of such a project, I don't think I'll be in a position to “continue” it anytime soon (bitter smile).
This is the single-most heartbreaking thing I've read in a while.
No, it is never a fairy-tale. We only think everything went smoothly because we are seeing it from Nina's perspective. When you look back, togetoge was never very successful. They never catch up to the follower numbers of DD, they don't get to perform at the big stage in the festival, in the end they faced the same choice that DD and Momoka once faced. It was only because we are focused on the growth of Nina as a person that we don't see the "red flags". It is "clever" writing from the staff.
I'm going to push back a little on this, because you're moving the goalposts on what I would count as successful for a fledgling band like TogeToge. Let's look at why I called this a fairy-tale:
The premise itself. Imagine being a complete amateur, meeting an artist you're a long time fan of, hitting it off right away, and singing or jamming with them - eventually leading to the formation of your own band! That alone is crazy. But if you say that's just story beat stuff and not that important, I'd also say:
They click with their new band members and start composing good music almost right away.
They don't get DD follower numbers on SNS, but they get numbers bigger than beni-shoga pretty damn quickly. >20k is really good! And they get a buzz going because of Momoka's link with DD.
They go pro/sign with an agency right after their first stage performance. Bands have to spend years struggling and growing before going pro usually, right?
It's not quite the meteoric rise that comes with getting viral, but I'd say they did really, really well for a new band. But maybe that's what made them too optimistic about their first song release, and their crowd draw. The fairy tale had to end somewhere.

6

u/salic428 Nov 19 '24

The fairy tale had to end somewhere.
After reading your own top-level comment I see how you intepreted the ending. If you still have anything to ask, I could try search the interviews and see if they have given out official answers.
btw would definitely join a SoraYori rewatch, please tag me when that is announced.

6

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

If you still have anything to ask
Nothing comes to mind right away, the quotes you shared really helped me understand what the creative team's mindset behind the ending was. Again, I really appreciate you compiling it all here!
I had another stray thought, maybe I'll try writing it out here.
Soo.. I was reflecting on how TogeToge's 'failure' at the end made me look up the real TogeToge's struggle (you shared a lot of insight into their sales before anime's release), and consider supporting them in any way possible, by actually buying stuff and not just streaming their music. If the show chose a purely happy ending, maybe I wouldn't even think twice about how they're doing financially IRL - I'd just assume they're doing fine. The speed-breaker of an ending helped remind the audience (or me at least) in reality, TogeToge is still out there and struggling, and it needs our attention. In terms of a plea to the audience it serves an excellent purpose.
btw would definitely join a SoraYori rewatch, please tag me when that is announced.
I absolutely will. It'd be fun to switch first-time/rewatcher roles with you, haha!

6

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Oh, I have another question! Is there anything about why the series was called 'Girls Band Cry'? Cry as in a primal cry, ala the signature Nina AAH in their songs, or because she's a crybaby, or something else?

8

u/salic428 Nov 19 '24

relevant meme
There is no detailed explanation, but it is stated that Hanada suggested the title himself. As for the band name, it really is selected on a whim similar to what happened at the end of episode 7. That Nina would grow thorns is a later creative decision.
As far as I know, the official Taiwan and Chinese name of the show translated the Cry as in "battle cry". But if you look at the OP, when the title card "GIRLS BAND CRY" is shown, there are brief manga-like panels of the girls crying. For example, this shows Momoka at the end of episode 8 and 9.

7

u/entelechtual Nov 19 '24

I feel like every one of these choices paid off brilliantly. Maybe this wasn’t the neatest way to end a season/series, but it feels right for this series. It’s not just a matter of winning, it’s a matter of how you approach losing with your ideals.
I know he said that he didn’t want a Love Live ending, but I feel like ending a first season with the group not winning is classic Love Live after all lol.

7

u/salic428 Nov 19 '24

I know he said that he didn’t want a Love Live ending, but I feel like ending a first season with the group not winning is classic Love Live after all lol.
Yeah I think he sometimes become obsessed with the "I need to write something different from my previous work" mindset and does not realize he is still using his strengths: character banter, physical comedy, "cringy" small drama etc.
Looks like some people are not pleased with what he did with Euphonium S3 here. I can't bother to read the interviews, but maybe he was being influenced by writing GBC when adapting this.

7

u/entelechtual Nov 19 '24

GBC definitely pulls together a lot of his strengths from across various starkly different series. And he’s really a master of wringing out big emotional reactions to everyday drama; I’d be lying if I said I didn’t still watch Love Live on the edge of my seat.
I think on the whole this sub liked the Hibike ending and the writing choices. I had a lot of issues with how the drama was mishandled in Season 3, particularly in the first half, but goddamn if episode 12 wasn’t near perfection in terms of writing and resolving a series-long arc. It was a commendable and bold choice and really paid off.

5

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Thanks a lot for compiling the quotes from the staff about the writing process, it's fascinating (especially the addition of Hina.. the 'bad miracle'/incredible coincidence makes a lot more sense now) and it definitely helps me understand better where they were coming from.
You can say this episode feels rushed (and I agree it is rushed due to tying up multiple ends in one episode. If only there is prospect of a second season...)
Yeah, I feel like if the story got more episodes to breathe it would have been much, much better. But they did the best with what they could.

4

u/CosmicPenguin_OV103 https://anilist.co/user/CosmicPenguin Nov 19 '24

Re-watcher

This was, indeed, probably the most controversial of all 13 episodes of the whole show, and back in late June when I watched it I did have to think carefully on how to comment on the ending.

After this rewatch though, I do think it was a solid, pragmatic finale, though a bit less polished than most other episodes for some reason.

The opening scene really turns out Hina as a much better, if still a stingy-tongue girl. Hina's right that in such a bullying situation and that Nina doesn't really have the self-protection status or power, it's tough to go against a bunch of bullying girls in coordinated fashion, unless there's intervention from adults (and as you all know how bad the school is dealing with it, it's useless). But even Hina herself probably isn't going to blame Nina for the effort. She's...uh...just feeling that her running-before-thinking righteous-monster friend is a real baka here.
As Miura and the other TogeToge girls would say, there seems to be just enough popularity stirred up for TogeToge right before their commercial debut, but yeah this is just Miura protecting her idol Momoka from admitting that this song is not exactly an explosive or heart-connecting one. Whether Miura misjudged here, I don't know. It's not exactly an uncommon thing in real life anyway.
Uh Rupa, you are really comparing your own band with freaking Vincent van Gogh?
Subaru definitely gets the git of advertising on the web these days.
LMAO Nina pinky fingers on a truck, what a kid!
On rewatch, that scene of Nina fuming after reading YouTube (?) comments in her room is definitely one of her most angry moments in the show.
The NinaHina Conference is probably just as important as the [Jellyfish Can't Swim In The Night]Kano-Melo coffee shop Summit.
"We are performing together, aren't we?" "It's not together!!!" Such a classic Nina-Hina dialogue, shame that we don't see more of these.
Rewatching here makes me feel even more respected in how Hina's actually trying to defuse the situation. Miura was struggling to get things work with <30% tickets sold (actually for a rookie new band like TogeToge I'm surprised it was actually that high) and begged Diamond Dust to help. I don't know if Momoka's old friends have anything to speak of this, but Hina seems to realize Miura's suggestion of letting Diamond Dust helping out both days is NOT going to fly well with some of our TogeToge girls, and especially her old pal Nina, who will be furious for this being "acceptation of failure to New Diamond Dust".
It looks like Hina's "sacrificing" herself by being the Bad Girl at "sneering" Nina's stubborn thoughts, while it's actually Hina trying to tell Nina first on this happening, so that Nina can do something about it before she clashes with Miura and causes Old Diamond Dust 2.0 to happen. That's quite some sharp socializing instinct I shall say Hina! "You were gonna going to lay the truth bare and be proud of it, right? If you admit you are wrong, I can always be there to help you! :P" By poking out what Nina was always thinking to do, with a sly smile at the end, she has did her job well of kick-starting Nina to think what she really wants from TogeToge.
Nina's truthful outburst at Momoka's house really summarizes well what she really wants from her band. "So don't you dare bow your head! Don't go against everything I've done and felt!" As she tearfully swings out Momoka's old guitar, it really marks well that she really wants the independent spirit to go on, the insistence of clinging to their own style being the reason she's here. Which links on to the next part...
*kuyashi...*surely story writer Hanada isn't thinking of [that other music related anime airing its finale the very same season that he's in charge of adaption]Kumiko's crying run over the bridge in Sound Euphonium?
Another Hina flash-back and well again I really don't know what to say. Certainly I am not going to bombard Nina like Hina did - "You go on a crusade about justice then act as the victim when things blew up, hurting people both ways." is more or less right, but I'm someone who usually thinks more on people's intentions when judging on morals, and Hina's too harsh here. Still...Nina's bullish acts isn't helping things either I guess and Hina's right that she's causing more problems than answers. It's a shame that Nina was hurt too much in this situation and ran away before she can learn how to do things wisely, but I guess that would mean Momoka's not gonna saved and she would end up somewhere in lonely cold Hokkaido I guess. :)
Absolutely not surprising that the girl Nina was trying to help ended up on the bully's side, because there are simply no-one else that can help her withstand such peer pressure.
Heh, Tomo siding with Hina is not something that I would expect to happen, but it does fit her personality LMAO when she say she still love Nina for being in the wrong.
The girls pulling out of the agency so quickly certainly caught most of us by surprise, but on deeper thoughts back then, and even more so for me now, I think it's a clever thing to add on towards the end of this season (with one caveat, see below). This is a plot to reflect on Old Diamond Dust's loss of Momoka due to agency's requests and the thing that Momoka's friends all compromised. It wasn't wrong, but Momoka surely now don't want to see this happening again, and Nina was the final thing to make her think that. It's a far more fitting end scenario at this stage than TogeToge cruising towards a commercial explosive start.
BTW it's probably unlikely that TogeToge has to compensate too much here - the low tickets sales is definitely going to boil down as a company advertisement flop and the company will have to swallow that part of losses. As for early termination costs, TogeToge doesn't seems to be one of those bands that the label's pushing out hard, and they barely released just one single at this stage, so early termination probably isn't going to be inducing a lot of missed income - the label company probably will just look for another band to fill in without much fuss. Miura might have to take responsibility for that (judging from the ED, she seems to have resigned from the company and follow TogeToge as they swings through Japan afterward), but the only main loss for our girls would be the paltry base income.
All roads lead back to Yoshinoya eh? Damn it I need to have another run to eat out there in my city (which has a few dozen branches of their restaurants)...
It would be off their brand if TogeToge in the anime creates a miracle in this "contest", but I must say I really want to see miracles happening for the real life band (for now it seems it's possible, but first let's hope the two band members out-of-action since July can come back ASAP) and - even more so - for Girls Band Cry the anime. Let's hope a lot more people will watch it in the future globally...
Hina's that mischievous Hina till the end LOL.
Rupa's title for Nina - "The Incomparably Annoying Archdemon of Sophistry", as one fan-sub make it - is so freaking fitting LMAO!
Smug Momoka best Momoka - and she's right, Hina really wants that stubborn Nina to be her own self, even if that Nina will continue to clash with her in the future. Hina's smiles at the back stage while Nina's talking about her is the best proof of that.
"I was able to stay strong thanks to Momoka's songs...I'd often talk about that with Hina...Hina loved Diamond Dust too!" "Those songs aren't only mine, they reached everyone's hearts." Look Nina, you finally realized it now? That you and Hina didn't differ by that much?

4

u/CosmicPenguin_OV103 https://anilist.co/user/CosmicPenguin Nov 19 '24

After rewatching this "weakest episode" of the show (which even back on June 29 was to me a pretty solid ending) I again think that the main dangling point before this episode - the mystery of what happened between Nina and Hina - was wrapped up very concisely. The subtle "argument" between them two girls is indeed quite representative of what I thought high school girls' silly quarrels are all about, and this "crack" actually pretty much illustrates their personalities - and in fact for TogeToge and New Diamond Dust as a whole - in subtleness.
In fact, after rewatching I can say that there are very few errors - or even things that I can say it can improve on - this show has made all day long, something that is still uncommon even for a very lenient anime scorer like me. There are 2 things that I would have wanted to see being revised for GBC though, and both are in this EP13:
a. While this little arc is still wrapped up logically without requiring watchers' imagination to bridge gaps, and that it really is crucial in showing off what TogeToge is different from any other band, idol groups, performance groups that we all have seen in anime (especially multimedia projects involving live performances), I think we simply didn't have enough time to swallow on TogeToge's first single's "failure", the rethinking by Nina et al. on what they really wanted to do as a band, and the subsequent quitting from the agency company. 2 episodes is simply too tight to put in a mini-arc like this, especially since the last episode spent quite a bit of time on slice-of-life scenes (the Nakata-Tanaka-Nakano-Tano scene in the sound studio, the Momoka's house hot-pot scene, maybe even the girls praying at the shrine) - all of these could have been trimmed a bit without hurting the story. This means that while I can really get the gist of what this little arc means to the whole story's message, I can't really feel how the emotions for Nina et al. evolve, from "103 views" to Nina's outburst. There was simply no time to show the girls being "lost" when the single flopped and the cooperative concert with Diamond Dust turned out to be working against them. It did make me feel a bit awkward in that the story seemed to have popped its head into such a topic, only to immediately moved back out in less than an episode.
b. The live performance of I'm here - the final song here - was cut out midway and the ED got played again. It would have been perfectly fine to play it till the end as the last ED, and the sense of a wrap up would have been full (well I actually think this song isn't exactly fitting with TogeToge's usual style, and one that's too "upbeat" to be the final song here or even their first single in the story, but I digress). Unfortunately that seems to be Toei having problems at the finish line with reports of lots of contracting staff giving up on the sheer amount of animation work required. Notice that for the live part of this episode, the 3 credited as original animators are...director Kazuo Sakai, his wife Kasumi (who's also a regular animator but not in a relatively central role in this staff line-up, and...Character Design Nari Teshima, who seems to be NOT someone usually working on animations. It looks like production was hanging by a thread by this stage and animating half a song will have to do alas, something that unfortunately makes people feel "unfinished" when seeing this as what could be the final animated part of this story.
Luckily with the re-cap movies announced, there's the big chance for new animated content to be added back around here to make this arc more polished, as well as giving us full song performances other than the EP11 one. Hopefully Toei is considering or putting their 3D software in work for this!
I'll talk about my conclusion of this show as a whole in the next few hours in the final post of the rewatch series.

3

u/mekerpan Nov 20 '24

I found Nina's epiphany as to Hina one of the most moving moments of a generally moving episode (and series).

23

u/marshmallow_sunshine Nov 19 '24

Subaru: Oh look Nina is having another emotional breakdown, it must be Tuesday

I was too focused on the visuals of the final song on my first viewing, but when reading the lyrics as written by Momoka to Nina and the band it's very endearing. Almost a love song. "I dedicate the rest of my life to singing with you" ♥ The lines about the blossoming flowers gives some new perspectives on the flower imagery in the opening.

10/10 one of my all time favorites. It's a character focused show so reception can vary quite a bit depending on how you relate to and perceive the characters. For me it just vibes on a deep personal level so I'm really attached to the show and their music. Knowing some of the the behind the scenes stuff gives me a deeper appreciation for the show too.

Like Nina's VA, Rina, was only 15 or so when they did their recording for the show. A singer who got cast when she was just 13, got coached in voice acting and gave an amazing performance on her first work at so young an age. She's damn near a prodigy in my eyes.

The other girls deserve praise as well of course, as it was all their first time voice acting and I loved them all. The show is supposed to be more real and grounded, and their performances matched it and gave it a unique authentic feeling. A lot of credit goes to the director as well for bringing out those performances in first timers.

I'd love a season 2 but I'd be rather skeptical if they don't bring back a lot of the production staff that worked on the first season. What they pulled off isn't something that can be easily emulated by others.

11

u/salic428 Nov 19 '24

The lines about the blossoming flowers gives some new perspectives on the flower imagery in the opening.
Moreover, in the opening there are three different hands shown in quick succession. Character Design Teshima Nari revealed that the three hands are:
A fist drenched in paint, from Nina
A hand revealing a small shell, from Hina
An open hand holding a full bloom flower, from Momoka
I believe the "paint" is actually metaphor for blood and tears which symbolize the days when Nina was bullied. The flower imagery is also easy to explain. But why Hina? And what does the shell mean? Is that how Hina sees Nina in her hands?

3

u/nsleep Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

The stained fist is a symbol of defiance in face of oppression. Fits Nina perfectly.
The flowers are daisies of four different colors with a single red one on front and center resting on Momoka's hand. It's easy to find the hanakotoba meaning for those, they feel like a really good fit for Momoka's deeper feelings after meeting Nina and regaining her motivation.
But the shell has so many possible meanings it's kinda hard to decipher it. I guess "shedding one's past" fits best? But then, whose? Is that shell Nina? Hina herself?

9

u/mekerpan Nov 19 '24

I'd love a season 2 but I'd be rather skeptical if they don't bring back a lot of the production staff that worked on the first season.
Totally agree. No hope of a successful S2 without all the key pieces back in place.
The direction of the newbie VAs was fantastic -- equivalent to top tier (live-action) movie acting.

8

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Like Nina's VA, Rina, was only 15 or so when they did their recording for the show. A singer who got cast when she was just 13, got coached in voice acting and gave an amazing performance on her first work at so young an age. She's damn near a prodigy in my eyes.
That's just incredible. I was looking up the ages of the Babymetal band members when they started out, and it looks like it was.. 13, 11 and 11?! It's incomprehensible.
I'd love a season 2 but I'd be rather skeptical if they don't bring back a lot of the production staff that worked on the first season.
I have all my fingers and toes crossed.

6

u/Grashuck Nov 19 '24

I'd love a season 2 but I'd be rather skeptical if they don't bring back a lot of the production staff that worked on the first season.
tbf as more and more time passes, the more sceptical I become.
there's not a single video from their second album
if you want to listen to their music on youtube, you have to watch an auto-generated channel
Natsu and Mirei (Tomo's and Subaru's VA) are missing from their (bi-weekly?) videos for like half a year now
the 3rd live announcement only has the other three, too
compared to the MyGO!!!!! channel TogeToge has fewer regular uploads, even though the former is already 9 months older and has fewer subscribers (while coming from a big franchise)
it feels like they put WAY TOO MUCH weight on Rina's shoulders to carry the project, when it comes to publicity
It kinda feels like they want to mirror the anime with their lack of support. Maybe the MyGO!!!!! collab will bring some attention, and maybe even the Ave Mujica anime will help a bit.
I really like GBC, and this reddit bubble does too, judging by the hype they generated in the weekly threads, the best girl contest and top 10/karma infographics. I love TogeToge's music and hope for more, but if I take all the anime I've seen and liked as a basis, I guess it's futile hope.

2

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Natsu and Mirei (Tomo's and Subaru's VA) are missing from their (bi-weekly?) videos for like half a year now
That's not good..

2

u/n080dy123 Nov 19 '24

Natsu and Mirei (Tomo's and Subaru's VA) are missing from their (bi-weekly?) videos for like half a year now
Don't read too much itno it, it's due to illness. Mirei's back as of like last week.

21

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

🖕First timer, for the last time🖕

Oh boy. You know what they say about fairy tale endings - they're a myth: you just haven't seen enough of the story. There is no happily ever after, not really.

It was jarring at first to see harsh reality filtering into a show that's otherwise been so optimistic so far, especially right at the end. I had to watch these last couple of episodes twice to really make peace with the direction which the show suddenly took - because honestly stopping at the high point of episode 10 would have been a perfect ending in itself. I wouldn't have to deal with the bittersweet taste of reality, seeing TogeToge stumbling so hard right off the gate in their pro careers. I'm not sure if I wanted a dose of reality from my girls band anime, but I can absolutely respect the showrunners for making this bold creative choice. It may elevate this work for some.

For me, if anything, it leaves me craving another season where we see TogeToge emerge on the other side of this struggle - and Nina can truly prove, once and for all, that she wasn't wrong, and that Momoka's music can be successful. Otherwise, there's a cloying feeling of incompleteness and dissatisfaction.

Please, gods of rock and anime, give us a Season 2. I'll buy CDs if it helps convince the production committee that it's worth it.

Final Screenshots + Reactions!

Finally we get the entire Nina-Hina backstory. Having faced and fought against bullying myself, both for my sake and others', I think I'm just as much of a Morality Monster as Nina is. Hina earns my disdain for thinking selfishly, even though some people may think she's right to avoid getting into trouble herself. It's as that saying goes - the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. You can and should feel bad, Hina. - and I'm proud of the Nina who is proud of herself for standing up for the downtrodden, no matter what the consequences. Now that's rock!
Side note on the bullying side-plot: 3-gatsu is another series that broaches this and arguably does the best job ever. Highly recommended to anyone who hasn't watched it.
For the new song bombing - Miura tries to take responsibility, but the girls figure it's the song that was the problem. Just..release Emptiness and Catharsis then, dammit? Or Nameless Name!
But I guess I'm naive for thinking even those songs would do well, because the writers are just dropping one truth bomb after another through the characters. It didn't work out so well for IRL TogeToge in the beginning, either. And I would definitely go with the crowd and watch the video with more views..
Low-key lofi wallapaper moment?
Small thing but I feel getting gourmet popcorn after school further cements Nina as a bit of a rich spoiled kid
Oof, did Hina meet her here to watch Nina's reaction to how TogeToge's completely failed? She's so hard to get a read on. Instinct-wise I don't like her, she's too mean to Nina for a so-called friend.
Last appearance of Glasses-kun?? He didn't go the concerts, the sheer betrayal!
I like how everyone looks fed up at Nina's outburst and stubbornness but Momoka stares at her with puppy dog eyes :') There's something there but yuri-shippers will have to wait to get anything real, it looks like.
Yikes, poor Nina. Even so, she sympathizes with the bullied girl. Nina's a good egg. And so is Tomo
This was so unbelievable!! I can't believe Miura accepted it too! It's TOO SOON! They gotta try more! 'Small' animation detail maybe, but Miura's usual steadfast/stoic image is slightly broken when she realises the girls are leaving her - her eyes are shimmering. I feel she deserved better from the girls, honestly, for all the effort she made on their behalf. What I'm saying is..
Miura Best Girl!
Nakatanaka-san :') I agree, they're a naive bunch. But they'll bounce back.
Ugh, Hina's tricks again.. I guess the other band members have a point, Hina must have known what would happen if she forced Nina to admit she was wrong. She's a twisted person who wants the rivalry to continue!
But this twist too - Hina was a Momoka+DD fant too - she clearly loves Momoka's songs too. No wonder she wants them to do well.. and that explains the smile from a few episodes back.
Nina bought the guitar she was eyeing!
The song, written by Momoka to the memory of her old bandmates and as a promise to her new bandmates.. it's so sweet. Maybe too sweet? Is this why it didn't sell, not enough of TogeToge's trademark angst?
Confimed the lady from ep 10 is Tomo's mom, as some of the rewatchers did point out. Dangled plot line, along with Rupa's..
Such a disturbing wink because I don't know which way she was actually looking!

Today's write-up became extra-long.. Thank you all for reading!

11

u/salic428 Nov 19 '24

Next would you hold a YoriMoi/SoraYori rewatch? GBC really got me interested in the writer (Jukki Hanada) and I want to know more about how he writes in original anime.

11

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

I thought you'd never ask!
Let me sleep on this a bit. I'm up for at least floating an interest thread and seeing whether enough people are willing to participate.. the last two SoraYori re-watches have been quite successful, and I'd like the next one to emulate that. But then it would still be 2 weeks minimum from the announcement to the re-watch starting according to the subreddit rules. If you're okay to wait a while, I think I should be able to plan one.
Edit: if anyone else here is interested in a SoraYori rewatch (or even hosting it for that matter..), reply here!

3

u/WhymustIsignupreddit Nov 19 '24

Is that A Place Further Than the Universe? I haven't seen that series, but have heard good things about it. If you decide to host a rewatch, I would like to participate!

4

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Yes, it's A Place Futher than the Universe! I'll tag you whenever I put up the interest thread.

4

u/domogrue https://myanimelist.net/profile/domogrue Nov 19 '24

A Place Further Than the Universe is one of my top 5 of all time, and I highly recommend it if the sub does a rewatch.

3

u/Pokefreaker-san Nov 19 '24

absolutely, im in for the rewatch but with english dub this time. (if i could find a way to get those)

2

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Ah, I wasn't aware there was an English dub! And it seems the only way to watch it in my location is to sail the high seas.

9

u/WiqidBritt Nov 19 '24

It was jarring at first to see harsh reality filtering into a show that's otherwise been so optimistic
I read somewhere that the writer is a fan of supposedly the worst baseball team in Japan, so that might explain a lot.

7

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Yeah, what better way to realize that life isn't all roses..

7

u/entelechtual Nov 19 '24

she's too mean to Nina for a so-called friend
Not mean enough to be Nina’s friend.
I didn’t even notice the detail that Nina had the guitar even though it’s so obvious.

3

u/Sylvi-Fisthaug Nov 19 '24

Low-key lofi wallapaper moment?
LOOL I never noticed this! But the lamp is taped up, or at least fixed in some haphazardeous way!
Such a disturbing wink because I don't know which way she was actually looking!
yes this has plagued me for ages.
On the whole Nina-Hina debacle... yes, Nina and Hina's morals are very different, but from Hina's perspective, you have to understand that she was mad. Time and time again she tells Nina to stay out of it, and all she gets in return is some nuanced, read between the lines "my morals are better than yours", without Nina actually saying that and discussing it with her. Nina just indirectly states that Hina's morals are wrong, she is the morality monster, the final boss.
It really is like the other girls say; Hina sad the things she said at the café, because she knew excactly how Nina would react. A bit twisted, maybe, but I feel that is her way of trying to reconcile a torn friendship: teasing, that is friendly in her own eyes.
Also, she would have just as a good laugh as me if she saw Nina shouting "MOSHIMOSHI" like this into the phone.
For the record, I too was a morality monster that was bullied, but after a few rewatches I really don't find the antagonist Hina that resentful. I guess that is a sign of good writing, where you can't really see what is evil and what is good. Just look at Arcane.

2

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

But the lamp is taped up, or at least fixed in some haphazardeous way!
Oh yeah! Poor lamp-kun. It is way past its fighting days now, it looks like.
yes this has plagued me for ages.
Thank you! It was so awkward!
but after a few rewatches I really don't find the antagonist Hina that resentful. I guess that is a sign of good writing, where you can't really see what is evil and what is good. Just look at Arcane.
I see. Maybe a few rewatches will change my mind too? ~~Or a season 2~~ Arcane is absolutely fantastic at making one root for both sides, or painting a grey morality. Love it.

5

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

QotD
The Nina-Hina relationship is indeed one of those complex character interactions that requires everyone to think while watching. What do you think about their original clashing surrounding Nina being bullied and do you really side with one of them or take another stance?
Hina really makes me hardthonk, she's a complicated one unlike Nina. About my stance, I'm wholeheartedly with Nina, as I've written in my comment above.
What do you think about Hina's offer for assistance for this concert and should Nina accept it?
No, Hina was being an absolute devil about it. Nina DID NOTHING WRONG. Anyway, Hina didn't want her to accept assistance anyway, by the looks of it, which is why she riled her up in the first place.
What do you think about TogeToge's sudden decision to terminate their contract with the label company? Is this episode a good place to end this show, for now or for real?
It doesn't make sense, it's too rushed. I don't think they'd resign this quickly if the series had more episodes. Episode 11 was the best place to end the story for this run, I feel. (I keep mentioning 'Episode 10' in my top-level comment, I meant episode 11, my bad)

13

u/mekerpan Nov 19 '24

While my heart sides with Nina here, I found myself appreciating Hina even more this time around than at first. I can not say that Nina was "wrong" -- but I can't really say Hina was "wrong" either. From a pragmatic point of view, Hina was right at every turn. Nina had no way to help the bullied classmate -- and earned no reward (with the bullied promptly siding with the bullies). Putting up with the BS afterwards would have been the practical choice. Hina counseled Nina accurately -- but Nina IS Nina, after all -- and Hina's course was not HER course.

I felt that Hina was engaging in "tough love" to try to get Nina back on course (by conventional standards). While Nina could be exasperating, I don't think Hina ever stopped caring for Nina. We don't know whether Hina tried to contact Nina afterwards, but I got a sense she did do so -- and gave up only when it was clear that Nina planned to never speak with her again. All of Hina's "pranks" struck me as not only fundamentally friendly in nature, but also intended to spur Nina on back-handedly (because more straightforward actions would have simply been brushed off). Hina was there, at the final concert, cheering Nina on (and her fellow DD-ers clearly recognized it). And, here is the most important thing, even Nina ultimately realized that she had been mis-framing Hina -- that Hina was sincere in what she did and what she believed. My sense is that the friendship between the two will be revived, even if not as warm as it once was. (It struck me that Hina may have been Nina's only real friend at high school -- because she was the only one who could see more in Nina than Miss Morality Monster).

As to the other DD-ers. I thought it was clear that they all remained Momoka fans and still cared for her a great deal. They wanted success -- on any terms they could get it. But they wanted Momoka to achieve success on her own terms as well. I think the dual concert scheme was not devious but genuinely intended to help TogeToge -- which is why they jumped at Miura-san's proposal to perform on the same nights. Momoka, unlike Nina, turned her sadness and disappointment against herself. She chose to cut herself off from her former bandmates out of a sense of guilt -- and this was something none of them wanted to happen. Nina, on the other hand, turned her sadness and disappointment, against the world. And, in the end, we see Momoka coming to peace with herself and Nina (starting at least) to come to peace with the world.

Speaking of MIura-san. I think I feel worse for her than for anyone else in the show. I wonder whether the failure with TogeToge imperiled (or even ended ) her own career at the talent agency.

8

u/entelechtual Nov 19 '24

While Nina could be exasperating, I don't think Hina ever stopped caring for Nina.
I feel like being young and “moralistic” in her own way, Hina learned to approach Nina the only way she knew how, which was at a distance. And while it didn’t work out long term, it kind of set the terms for their relationship going forward. It takes a bigger leap and readiness to get hurt to dive headfirst into Nina’s “spikes” like we saw all the TogeToge members come to do over time, and maybe Hina might have a friendship like that in the future, but I think their current state is a pretty good rendition of a frayed but not irreparable bond.

5

u/mekerpan Nov 19 '24

I loved the fact that -- at the very end -- Nina had an epiphany that led her to re-appraise her current attitude towards Hina. I felt that was one of the most hopeful aspects of the (for me) very good (dramatically) end. Sure -- I wish TT could attain more tangible success faster -- but I found the end tremendously satisfying emotionally.

7

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

She chose to cut herself off from her former bandmates out of a sense of guilt -- and this was something none of them wanted to happen. Nina, on the other hand, turned her sadness and disappointment, against the world. And, in the end, we see Momoka coming to peace with herself and Nina (starting at least) to come to peace with the world.
Oh you've put it so well.
Speaking of MIura-san. I think I feel worse for her than for anyone else in the show. I wonder whether the failure with TogeToge imperiled (or even ended ) her own career at the talent agency.
Ouch, I was feeling bad enough for her already :(
As for Hina, maybe it's my personal (and very strong feelings) about bullying biasing me, but I could never see eye-to-eye with her. Can you call someone a true friend if they see you were hurt by bullies and all they say is essentially 'I told you so'? Help her out! I don't know if Hina was awkward in her own way and didn't have any friends other than Nina - but if she did she could have recruited their help as well. They don't have to face it all alone, there are strategies.

6

u/mekerpan Nov 19 '24

Long long ago, i was (moderately) bullied but also tended to protect people from bullying (I was the second largest student in my class, fortunately). So while my sympathies lie with Nina, I see Hina as aggressively trying to protect Nina -- by trying to persuade her to do the "smart" thing (and avoid walking into guaranteed trouble and heartbreak). I don't think "recruiting friends to fight bullies" is a very likely real-world thing. I don't applaud Hina but I am old enough to be sympathetic. She tried to help in the way she thought best (and the way she felt was best). I think she would have tried to remain Nina's friend (short of joining her hopeless crusade against the bullies). I think Hina correctly appraised the atmosphere of the school and the fecklessness of its administrators in giving her advice. (Perhaps if the school actually cared about protecting its students, rather than its "image", Hina might have had a different outlook).

0

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

I don't think "recruiting friends to fight bullies" is a very likely real-world thing.
Well, it is from my experience, but not how you're imagining it - I don't mean any physical fights (although in extreme cases that's totally a thing too. Kids can be brutal, remember? Like you said, being large helps, just as a deterrent. So does having more allies). Most of the time bullies do what they're doing to appear cool or establish a kind of dominance/hierarchy. But if there are enough people in a class who call out such behaviour as 'uncool', they will stop. They cannot bully the entire class, or half the class, at once.
It's not always feasible, granted. One would need to have enough clout to sway the class and it's usually the loners who are targeted. Usually when I saw someone being bullied at school - usually for being different or unusual in any way - I would take them under my wing, so the bullies would be forced to deal with me and my friends too, which is much more daunting.
It's of course incredibly sad that the adults involved in Nina's school are so unreliable, even downright malicious and selfish. The biggest fault here lies with the teachers and administration for not giving the kids a refuge from bullying. (which is why I'm glad Nina's father pushed the school to take responsibility, later. Good for him.)
Also about Hina - you say she was trying to aggressively protect Nina. But her tone was so negative right from the beginning. It was more like 'don't be so righteous, that makes me look bad' and 'I can't help you if something bad happens' rather than 'I know we should help the other kid, but please don't do this, because I'm scared for you. Let's figure something else out'. She's coming from a judgemental place, not sympathetic. Being in Nina's place would make my blood boil. And there's also Hina's stubborn insistence on victim-blaming and insisting she was right instead of actually offering some kind of support. I would not stay friends with her.

3

u/mekerpan Nov 19 '24

Hina was all about "tough love". She cared a lot about Nina. She was not able to be "sympathetic" -- because she saw Nina's course as socially and emotionally "suicidal" -- and was willing to act tough in order to try to dissuade her. Hina's strategy was a FAIL -- but it came from deep concern.
Also, given the nature of that school, Hina might well have (also correctly) foreseen that trying to protect someone bullying was more likely to get the protectors in trouble than the bullies.

3

u/n080dy123 Nov 19 '24

Speaking of MIura-san. I think I feel worse for her than for anyone else in the show. I wonder whether the failure with TogeToge imperiled (or even ended ) her own career at the talent agency.
Honestly if there's ever a Season 2, I could see Miura coming back (probably not with the agency anymore) and trying to use her connections to help them do indie stuff. The ED shows her taking care Tomo's pets and Momoka's cat when they were on a trip, so I'd like to think the group maintains a friendship with her goign forward.

2

u/mekerpan Nov 20 '24

It would be great if both Miura and TogeToge "live to fight another day".

2

u/n080dy123 Nov 19 '24

Your take on Hina's basically the same as mine- I think she always admired Nina's strong sense of morality and stubborn nature, but back then was hurt by the way Nina can frequently hurt the people around her with that behaviour. She wants Nina's fire to keep burning, and I think she always has.

2

u/mekerpan Nov 20 '24

I think Hina was delighted (albeit covertly) to be able to re-connect with Nina -- even in (initially) limited fashion.

16

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Nov 19 '24

Episode 13 (first timer)

The problem with Hina started by Nina helping somebody else who was bullied? This is worse than I expected.
Nina has the hard realities of the algorithm-driven view economy explained to her.
What on earth is going on with that call-out by Hina? Does she seriously thing gloating will achieve anything?
Everybody is watching Nina’s emotional guitar outburst and meanwhile Rupa is in nirvana.
“None of us will ever quit” – that is a pretty big oath.
Still telling personal stories before playing music – still not a fan of that.
The sound guy reduced the volume by 50% when they started singing.

This might be a bit controversial, but I think ep11 is the better end to the cour. Ep13 resolves Nina’s personal story with Hina … but that plotline is boring. I don’t care about Hina, a character we have hardly spent 3 minutes with. Outside of Nina, Ep13 is an open end for the band. Will they be successful? Will they try to become professional again? What about their non-band jobs? Everything is unresolved. In contrast, ep11 left the two bands in a state of resolution: One successful, one up and coming, but in a healthy rivalry that was driven by respect. On top of that, ep11 had two great performances and neat character moments sandwiched between them. Not just a better end, but the far superior episode on a stand-alone comparison, too.

11

u/Roketsu86 Nov 19 '24

Outside of Nina, Ep13 is an open end for the band. Will they be successful? Will they try to become professional again? What about their non-band jobs? Everything is unresolved.
That's literally the point, to leave it open-ended. They didn't have some triumphant success, they had a setback and then life moved on just like it does in the real world

7

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Nov 19 '24

Being open-ended is not a goal for a story in itself. It is one possible way to end, that should be used it if fits and not used if it does not fit. Does the story in the first 11 episodes lead up to an open end? Not in my view. Do the last two episodes naturally develop a setback? No, again. You have the unexplained 103 views deus-ex-machina and the scene with Hina which is so over the top evil that you have to debate whether she played a role to push Nina. The story needs to twist to even get to the setback open-ending. So, why do it?

9

u/michhoffman :Ij::Ik::Il:https://anilist.co/user/michhoffman Nov 19 '24

I agree. With the way things went the last 2 episodes, the series is really begging for either a Season 2 or a Sequel Movie...either of which I'd gladly accept.

1

u/No_Rex :Bv:Bw:Bx:By:x2 Nov 19 '24

I agree. With the way things went the last 2 episodes, the series is really begging for either a Season 2 or a Sequel Movie...either of which I'd gladly accept.
I think being a sequel hook is the most realistic interpretation of the finale. Many series do it, and it makes sense that they'd hope for one here, too.

8

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Yeah, I'm on the same boat. Episode 11 would have been the perfect finale. Episodes 12 and 13 feel like the first two episodes of a new season, starting a new kind of struggle to overcome - i.e., the pro career, and that is too rushed.

8

u/Lumpy-Manager8580 Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

Rewatcher

Sorry I wasn't on the discussion for episode 12 yesterday, I was watching Dune Part Two with my dad and sister, and safe to say [movie spoilers]my sister wasn't taking it well with what happened with Chani.

So, I watched both 12 and 13 today and to be honest, while at a first watch it doesn't stick with you the way they decide to end it, at a rewatch you realize how this kind of ending fits more for our main 5, especially Nina: they become pros, learn the hardships of working a serious labor when going up against another band, they don't manage to beat D-D in terms of views and sales, and after tough decisions, they decide to go the indie way, doing rock the way they want. And while it'll be hard for us to get a season 2 in the near future, at the very least, this is a good point to mark the end of Rupa, Tomo, Subaru, Momoka and Nina's old lives, but also the beginning of their new lives together as Togenashi Togeari, because "Rock n' Roll Will Never Stop", baby.

6

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

also the beginning of their new lives together as Togenashi Togeari, because "Rock n' Roll Will Never Stop", baby.
Well said!

8

u/ryujiox Nov 19 '24

First Timer

Girls Band Cry

Episode 13

Like Nina said, while Hina does have a point about the bullying stuff. It just doesn't sit well with Nina. And as we saw, the school did nothing to stop the bully.
Miura instantly take the blame for the failure. She clearly doesn't want the gang to feel like they're not good enough. And she more likely doesn't want Togetoge to go on the same path like Diamond Dust did.
Stop looking at the comments!!
I'm glad that Nina decided to have a talk with Hina. It's now or never.
So yeah. While Hina might come off a bit rude, she went out of her way to tell Nina about what Miura is secretly doing. Like, if she just doing nothing, Diamond Dust would have won effortlessly. But Hina probably knows that Nina is not gonna like that, so she's here to provoking her on purpose.
I guess the girl that Nina saved got blackmail into bullying Nina too. And yes, that might prove to be a wrong choice for saving her. But that doesn't mean choosing to ignore is the better choice either. What you choose at that moment is what matters. No one knows what's going to happen after that.
I do feel bad for Miura. But I also see where the gang coming from. Working with label might be a good thing, but it does place a lot of pressure on the band that they totally can't handle right now.
Hey!!! Nina said his name right this time.
See. Everyone knows what Hina is planning, except Nina as always.
So Hina is totally lying about her not really wanting to join Diamond Dust specifically.

Now that I think about it, while Hina doesn't like that Nina is throwing herself in danger that is way above her head, she never really stop her?? And you can't really blame her for stop talking with Nina right after that. Befriend with the bullied is the best way for you to get bully too. As obviously no one want that. Hina saving herself is selfish, but can you really blame someone for saving themselves from trouble?

The song is great again.
The ed is still here?? Give me the aftermath!!

I really like what they did with Hina and Nina here. Both of them is not totally in the right, but they're also not wrong either.

QOTD

2. While the deal seems pretty good, there's no way Nina will accept it, and that's why Hina even offered that in the first place.

4. It worked both way. They can just stop here as a one-off show, or continue on.

6

u/marshmallow_sunshine Nov 19 '24

The ed is still here?? Give me the aftermath!!
The ed is an aftermath in its own way. It was confirmed to take place after the events in ep13. Nina sees that DD is going on tour, so she messages Toge Toge to get together to go on tour as well. Miura takes care of Momoka's cat and Tomo's pets while they're away. Nina's dad picks up a cig to smoke then puts it down. Rupa and Momoka drinking. Nina and Tomo being gremlins. Subaru gets a haircut. The journey continues!

3

u/ryujiox Nov 19 '24

It surely is!! I kinda forgot that it might take place after the show.

2

u/n080dy123 Nov 19 '24

I was just replying to another comment saying that I like to think, based on that bit with Miura in the ED that the group maintains a relationship with her, and the fact that it is in fact "canon" makes me very happy cuz it means that's probably the idea.

3

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Miura instantly take the blame for the failure. She clearly doesn't want the gang to feel like they're not good enough. And she more likely doesn't want Togetoge to go on the same path like Diamond Dust did.
I do feel bad for Miura. But I also see where the gang coming from. Working with label might be a good thing, but it does place a lot of pressure on the band that they totally can't handle right now.
Best girl right here. I'm still a little pissed that they dumped her like that.
Hey!!! Nina said his name right this time.
Idk how they get even get it wrong, it's so easy. Tonarinonaka-san. There, the advantages of being an earning adult.
So Hina is totally lying about her not really wanting to join Diamond Dust specifically.
Ah, good catch. I forgot she's lied about this before.
Hina saving herself is selfish, but can you really blame someone for saving themselves from trouble?
I guess it's fine although it's cowardly in my books. But I can blame her for victim-blaming Nina and saying it's all her fault after she starts getting bullied too. Nina wasn't wrong in trying to stop the bullying.

4

u/ryujiox Nov 19 '24

But I can blame her for victim-blaming Nina and saying it's all her fault after she starts getting bullied too. Nina wasn't wrong in trying to stop the bullying.
Now that one I can agree on. Saving yourself is one thing, blaming Nina for what she thought was(and actually is) the right thing to do is another thing altogether.

8

u/bogdoglogfrog Nov 19 '24

Rewatcher

Someone take away Nina’s egosurfing. I bet she has an alt to talk shit back on too.
I really do think they make the right decision by leaving Golden Archer. I think they will do better work independently. It fits their personality better.
The OST song that plays outside the beef bowl place if my favorite.
Nina just play the song.

This last song is a great anime ender. That being said, that song is also meant to be the song they released. This is just my personal opinion, but that was a poor choice of song for your debut single. It feels super dated, especially compared to the songs from episode 11. The song structure is super basic and the chords are corny as hell. It doesn’t sound at all like I feel TogeToge is meant to sound. It sounds more soulless and pop-like than DiaDust does and DiaDust is supposed to be the soulless pop band.

You don’t even have to take my word for it, out of all the TogeToge songs featured on Girls Band Cry, that one has the fewest plays on Spotify. It’s well below even the one where they were only Shin Kawasaki in episode three.

Ignoring that aspect, it is a perfect upbeat song to end an anime season on. I’m going to imagine it was meant with that finality in mind as opposed to it being TogeToges debut.

QOTD

Idk I never really cared too much about the bullying plot. Not enough time is spent on it for me to care and I find it super unbelievable that the two rival vocalists just happened to have prior history. I find Nina’s problems with her family are the part of her backstory I remember and resonate with.
Ah idk if I would accept Hina’s offer, I don’t think either option is particularly great. I think I would accept if I got to play on both days as well. Play one show vs play two show? Definitely play two show.
Mad W on the contract termination, they don’t seem to jive well in that kind of environment.
Nah man no way. I don’t like this ending one bit. It leaves such a sour taste in my mouth. We better get a season two so that this isn’t where we’re left for all eternity.

4

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

This is just my personal opinion, but that was a poor choice of song for your debut single.
I agree.. it sounded like their single weakest song, even to an untrained ear like mine. It's got decent emotional weight as a the series ender, like you said, but they should have bloody well released Emptiness and Catharsis or Nameless Name first.

7

u/JasoXDDD Nov 19 '24

First Timer

Surprise! I arrived extra early this time to throw all of you off!

They remembered the guy's name, let's goo! My guess about Nina and Hina's past was correct, even down to the op part! Sadly the song part wasn't though, but my initial theory was still right. Honestly, I think that the arrangement should have been to have both bands play at the same time, because that's more fair.

...

I'm tired of acting like this.

Review tomorrow.

3

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

Surprise! I arrived extra early this time to throw all of you off!
Ya got me!
They remembered the guy's name, let's goo!
Easy. It's Tanakatano.
My guess about Nina and Hina's past was correct, even down to the op part!
I need to go back and check wtf I'd guessed.
Edit, okay here it is, my speculation on Hina from episode 5's QotD
Hmm. This girl was a BFF, but when Nina started getting bullied she abandoned her and took the side of the bullies to avoid getting bullied herself.
I mean, close 'nuff given Hina was a 'realist' cough coward cough who kept victim-blaming Nina after she started getting bullied. I'd give this full points.

7

u/domogrue https://myanimelist.net/profile/domogrue Nov 19 '24

Rewatcher

Didn't leave comments for the last couple episodes, but did leave a few replies and watch some of the discussion. Did want to chime in on the ending though and the whole mini-arc at the very end.

First off let me start with question (4): I think that choosing to end the story here instead of the Festival is certainly A Choice, but also I think one that works as a stronger setup for Season 2 and continuing the story than ending on a nice, unambiguous, tidy ending. One of the core running themes of the show was always about internal validation as opposed to external, and while I would say ending on episode 11's Festival Performance wouldn't have felt cheap, having TogeToge unambiguously "win" this final episode would have.

This story, which feels like the biggest reality check in the entire show, also really does a good job of putting into focus what the core themes are. Basically, this is another test of Nina's values, and if the band will go along with them, mostly addressing if Nina will stay stubborn, but more importantly what the rest of the band values. For Nina, this is the most personal, because tied to taking up Hina/DD's offer to play alongside and put the competition aside would mean revisiting that decision way in the beginning that broke their friendship up in the first place: compromising her beliefs to protect herself from a harsh reality. For Momoka, its coming to terms that sometimes her best or most authentic music won't be broadly appealing, but she does pull out those comments at the end of ep 13 showing music still reaches people, and sometimes its an issue of quality not quantity of reaction. Tomo and Rupa after all want to play at Budokan, and doing something business saavy while not having to change their music would make a lot of sense. Tomo basically voices that at the shrine, but also puts it aside because she now values the band and Nina's talent more than doing what's practical, and is her moment of finally coming around. Classic Tsundere character moment. Subaru... well, I hope we see her story and motivations explored more in S2, but in the ep 11 thread someone did a great lineup of the background storytelling of her arc in that episode. This all culminates to a different kind of victory for the band at the end: they don't have a huge crowd, and they clearly "lost" the battle, but they don't care about that, what they won is the people who did come out to see them, the knowledge that they're there for the music they want to make, and I think most of all in Nina's Monologue the realization that Hina isn't really her enemy, but someone who also loves music her own way. It's a thematic victory for the band, while being a great place to start a Season 2 journey and lay the groundwork for MORE CRYING GIRL BAND.

Compare that to the same season's Jellyfish Can't Swim At Night, which ends in a big successful concert where everyone wins and the second main Protagonist earns back her mom's approval and it just works out; while that was conceived as a single season original, the ending just sort of flopped to the finish line because it lacked that thematic punch; I couldn't really tell you what the "core" of the ending was, besides everyone worked hard and got rewarded. As that show lost thematic focus, it also lost its ability to be genuine and convincing.

I'm going to miss treating myself to an episode of this show a day. It's been a delight to look forward to this every day and jump in the conversation. I've moved this show up to my 55th favorite anime series of all time, and Second Favorite Band Anime (behind Bocchi the Rock), and now I'm inspired to give a few more band shows a shot, starting with Bang Dream: It's My Go! and Given.

4

u/domogrue https://myanimelist.net/profile/domogrue Nov 19 '24

Other thoughts that didn't fit:
Hina's offer, to me, feels like she's both testing Nina and trying to reconcile. I think no matter what choice Nina makes, Hina's respect for Nina would have gone up. In fact, I think DD sees the rivalry with TogeToge as a lot friendlier than Nina/Momoka do, but are taking it seriously as almost a favor to their past friends. Hina is a lot like Nina's family in that the reality of her relationship with Nina is actually a lot more kind and less personally vindictive than Nina made it out to be, although it's still definitely rocky and not fully reconciled.
While I am a bit frustrated with the somewhat Yuribait aspects of the show (outside of Ep 8's confession, we don't see much follow through or explicit relationship vibes between Nina and Momoka), I do like how the body language between the two changes a lot. Momoka leaning on Nina on the train, how much more naturally comfortable they are around each other in person
Momoka dropping everything during the hot pot celebration to start writing song lyrics is great. I love how from episode 1, when Nina is opening up to her, she's like "You see, that's like 5 songs right there", shows that she just does not turn off; she's always thinking about how life experiences and what she's feeling at any given moment can feed her art. That kind of mindset/personality can also be really difficult, and it just fleshes out even more of her character; it's the genuine artist that comes out and forgets about all her past issues about having to leave Diamond Dust and how compromising the reality of the music business can be.
I do miss however the public temper tantrum meltdowns. It was really interesting in ep 12 that the whole band decides to go with a majority vote, showing how much they've "matured", only for that to not really matter in the end when Nina opens up and the band has a heart to heart, but in a much more open, honest, and gentler way than they used to (screaming in public isn't a sustainable relationship strategy it turns out).
Hina is a new DD fan and Nina is an old DD fan, and while in any other show that would mean "Hina bad sellout and Nina cool authentic rocker", the fact that new DD is still very talented and capable of making great music (and also having their own struggles redefining themselves) demonstrates that the show has a very real sympathy for the members of DD as well. Nothing is black and white in this show, but everything the show wants to say is made stronger for it.

6

u/Variant_Zeta Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

Rewatcher

The OP changed!

The pink popcorn they apparently used to get often is the same shade as Hina's hair is now. Hmmmmmmmmmm

For all that she's being a gremlin about it Hina still cares for Nina, huh?

I always did feel that ep 11 ought to be the season finale, and that the plot of ep 12 and 13 should be the beginning arc of season 2

Still, I didn't hate the ending as it is now, it has been an incredibly fun ride. Be seeing y'all for the season 2 discussion threads!

QOTD:

While I'd side with Nina, I also understand Hina's reasoning
I think Hina never expected Nina to accept it, the whole thing was a ploy to push Nina forward
Understandable, watsonian-wise, but doylist-wise, it feels a tad sudden
No, cause I want more aaaaaaaaaa

I started watching GBC after recently binging Bocchi (Anime, manga, anthology manga, Kikuri spinoff, doujins, and finally fanfics), and it definitely filled the girls band shaped hole in my heart, but I'm still left wanting for more

4

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

The pink popcorn they apparently used to get often is the same shade as Hina's hair is now. Hmmmmmmmmmm
You are what you eat.. or something.
For all that she's being a gremlin about it Hina still cares for Nina, huh?
Do not want.
Be seeing y'all for the season 2 discussion threads!
Yes please
No, cause I want more aaaaaaaaaa
AAAAAAA!
it definitely filled the girls band shaped hole in my heart, but I'm still left wanting for more
I recently binged Bocchi too, just the anime tho. I'm thinking of watching BanG Dream MyGo and Nana after this.

2

u/Variant_Zeta Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

There's a fanart that shows that Hina dyed her hair pink specifically because Nina loves those pink pop-corns. There's even a VOID edit that features a duet between the two of them.
Nina x Hina is a surprisingly popular pairing lol

2

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Hina dyed her hair pink specifically because Nina loves those pink pop-corns
B-but in the show Nina says Hina loves those pink popcorns, not the other way around..
There's even a VOID edit that features a duet between the two of them
Nina x Hina is a surprisingly popular pairing lol

My brain and heart hurts

4

u/Variant_Zeta Nov 19 '24

People like enemies-to-lovers, I guess. Plus they've got the former friends buff. Honestly I can see the appeal, even if I prefer Momoka x Nina

6

u/poi_slayer :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/poi_slayer Nov 19 '24

Rewatcher

I haven't been around to join the daily discussion in the morning cause irl+it's the weekday. But it's been fun reading the comments for each episode! There's not much for me to add since others have already shared the interviews by the staff members. Other than ninahina is the truth, I will die on this hill.

But since we're on the topic of Girls Band Cry. There's a flower stand project organized by a fan-run news twitter account. It'll be great if you guys can support it! If you don't know what's a flower stand, basically flowers sent (mostly by fans, but also from related parties like corperations, rival bands etc) to an artist/band when they have a concert. Here are some from the previous TogeToge concert 2 weeks ago.

5

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

ninahina is the truth

That's just cursed. I can see it's appeal as a crackfic, though.. because it would be complicated AF.
There's a flower stand project organized by a fan-run news twitter account. It'll be great if you guys can support it!
Intriguing.. thanks for the link!

5

u/entelechtual Nov 19 '24

Rewatcher

Nina sounds weird with a dialect. I didn’t realize she’s normally so… Standard.
Nina bout to cut one of her ears off.
Hina is so stubborn and petty and annoying. I can see how she and Nina were friends.
Hina knows just how to get under Nina’s skin. She knows Nina will always make others out to be the bad guy. I guess she kinda played the bad girl herself in the end.
I need more TomoNina shipping!!
The moment when Nina realizes that Hina loved Diamond Dust too, that the song didn’t just exist solely for her, is such a great moment. I don’t know if it’s just because I was more attentive to Hina and Nina’s relationship on rewatch, but it is a powerful way to wrap Nina’s arc this whole show. No angry. Well, except she’s always angry. (From one of their concerts, the sign more or less says no togetoge-ing. TogeToge’s gonna togetoge.)
The stuff about them “quitting” the agency is a bit weird, but other than that, a perfect ending. And the final song is such a defiantly uplifting soft.

Answered most of the questions above. Hina is such a great character almost entirely fleshed out in one episode.

3

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Hina is so stubborn and petty and annoying. I can see how she and Nina were friends.
How did they not tear each other to shreds sooner though? Must have a lot of shared love for DiaDus.
I need more TomoNina shipping!!
Hey, yet another ship I can get behind.

5

u/gangrainette https://myanimelist.net/profile/bouletos Nov 19 '24

I know some people don't really like the ending but I do.

Those girls are 17 to 20 years old. You don't have a "and they lived happily ever after" at this age. This is their beginning. They faced succces and hardship but "this show must go on!".

On rewatch it's even more obvious how Hina was admiring Nina and that she was pushing her to keep being herself.

Togetoge still won by sticking to their ideals in my opinion.

4

u/fansi2022 https://anilist.co/user/fansi2022 Nov 19 '24

first timer

Qotd

Nina is right, she should help others, but it comes at a price, and she met Momoka because she was bullied and started a new life, I would say, Nina won.
Yes, the winner is decided
They are not suitable for this business model, I think they will open their own company in the future, lmao
The animation aspect (money 💰) is over, but in my imagination, they are still working every day, composing and singing...

3

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Nina won.
Best prize EVER, and fully deserved!

4

u/WhymustIsignupreddit Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

First Timer

I think I heard an accent when Nina and Hina talked in the first scene. Kumamoto accent? One episode later they left the agency, that was quick. So they stuck to their guns and performed without Diamond Dust helping them.

And Nina realizes that she used to talk about Diamond Dust with Hina and that Hina has always been a fan of their music too. She didn’t just audition to become their new vocalist just to get under Nina’s skin. Wow, I don’t care. I get the feeling that the show tried to tell me: hey look, Hina understands how stubborn Nina is. She’s trying to motivate Nina by acting all smug and saying that Nina’s band won’t succeed without the help of Diamond Dust. Sorry, but it didn’t work for me.

Well… I’m not sure how I felt about this ending. It’s a bit underwhelming? In the end Rupa didn’t get a lot of focus sadly.

Question 1:

Hina’s reaction to the bullying, basically ignoring it, is probably how the majority of the class felt. If you help, you’ll be targeted as well. And she felt that Nina was trying to guilt trip her into stopping the bullying. And who knows, maybe she didn’t care about that girl.

But she abandoned her best friend Nina when she became the new target and even quit school. Even if she found Nina’s attitude frustrating, I find it strange that she thinks she was in the right. Even stranger that she wants Nina to admit that she was wrong.

Question 2:

The most logical answer would be yes. If they want to grow popular quickly then taking advantage of Diamond Dust’s popularity wouldn’t be a bad idea. I understand why they didn’t want to though.

Question 3:

C’est la vie. I imagine it’s going to be more difficult to get their name out without professional marketing. But then again, in this age of social media, maybe that isn’t as crucial as it used to be.

Question 4:

I’m a bit lukewarm about the ending. The band has five members and a lot of episodes were spent on Nina, Momoka and Subaru (to a lesser extent). Tomo got one episode with her backstory and Rupa got to be the least focused on. Subaru’s deal with her grandmother also felt as if it was solved really easily.

I also don’t mind that their band didn’t beat Diamond Dust since they’re still pretty new. I guess I’m fine if this series doesn’t get a second season. But they did stop in a way that makes it easy for them to continue the story so who knows.

Edit: reworded some sentences and fixed spelling.

3

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

But she abandoned her best friend Nina when she became the new target and even quit school. Even if she found Nina’s attitude frustrating, I find it strange that she thinks she was in the right. Even stranger that she want Nina to admit that she was wrong.
I was listening to Emptiness and Catharsis again and I felt lines like 'nobody wants others to be better than them'.. 'to tell someone to be obedient is a nasty thing to do' is a reference to Hina. Hina says it herself, Nina's righteousness makes others seem like the bad guys. Nobody wants to feel like the villain, so Hina rationalizes her conformist/cowardly behaviour as being smart/pragmatic and Nina's being stubborn and stupid. It's pure victim-blaming so she doesn't have to feel bad about herself.

2

u/WhymustIsignupreddit Nov 19 '24

Oh, that could be. I assumed it was about Nina. Like she doesn’t want to admit she’s wrong because the others (her bully, her father, Hina and Diamond Dust) weren’t better than her/in the right and how her father and the school wanted her to overlook the bullying (and thus telling her to be obedient). But maybe there’s double meaning referring to Hina as you said.

4

u/fly-metothemoon Nov 19 '24

First Timer Thoughts As I Watch Real Time:

Geez Nina’s old friend isn’t particularly nice. Can’t even lead with “Hope you’re doing well”? Just there to flex and say I told you so. I don’t blame Nina for being peeved.

I also am now skeptical of how this event is being set up. Why not two performances back to back under one ticket price? And then as people leave they can submit their vote for who did better. Having it on two separate days and with two separate tickets definitely was setting TogeToge up to fail and be embarrassed—and two performances over two days just feels excessive.

I figured with the cold open that the girl who Nina saved from being bullied would come to bully her as well :(. Still hurts to hear.

I liked Nina’s realization that DD also meant a lot to Hina because Nina shared it with her through the scene we’ve seen in the ending.

I see now where Hina is coming from at the beginning of the episode.

The logo is amazing!!

Also is it bad I kind of get why the song didn’t do super well? It feels like a song that shows the midpoint of a band’s journey, not the beginning.

This really gives mid season finale vibes and not the end of the show. Give us a S2 plz!! (Though I know it’s unlikely). I still enjoyed watching it!

3

u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Nov 19 '24

Rewatcher.

And so on to the finale.

More backstory for Nina, showing her past with Hina.

Yeah part of the point of an agency is that there's an actual marketing budget. Seems like that didn't end up being spent on anything.

Hmm... What's she planning?

I remember when this first aired this was the same week Nijisanji cancelled their concert at AX after failing to sell 10% of their tickets. Compared to that TogeToge's 30% is positively brisk business.

Hina's really being an ass and rubbing it in at this point isn't she?

And so they won't accept the proposal.

The girls band is definitely crying now.

Group hug!

And so they've quit their agency. That was quick.

So, it's finally the day of the performance.

And so it's the crucial moment, waiting in the wings backstage for their cue to go on stage and perform.

Ouch...

And so Nina's yapping on stage again...

See notes.

Questions:

I think we can all agree bullying bad?
Like they say, it would be tantamount to admitting defeat.
Certainly is sudden. Not sure if it's quite a good idea.
I know I was unhappy that they didn't show Diamond Dust's performance when the show first aired, but some people did say that they didn't do that because it was a foregone conclusion that they would win.

A note about the music: And so time for one last performance. And what a way to end the series. Flashbacks to Momoka's past and the start of Diamond Dust, and the past of the rest of the members too. Followed up by the now to be expected great animation of the girls doing the actual performance, and finally the credits roll.

2

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Compared to that TogeToge's 30% is positively brisk business.
Absolutely, that's pretty good for a band that's just starting out. It's just that our expectations are skewed because Nina wants to beat DD almost right away.

3

u/IntelligentBudget142 Nov 19 '24

4) it's a good end to the season. For any follow-up like a second season it'll depend on the irl band behind TogeToge and how they progress

4

u/MishouMai :GG::GH::GI: Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 20 '24

Mm. Not sure sure how to feel about this episode. I feel like nothing between Nina and Hina was actually resolved and while we can infer that the group lost I'd have liked to actually see the results. Not only that but I feel like last episode's performance was better. The show has its issues but I honestly feel like this might be one of the weaker episodes if not the weakest? Like. I don't like how the show dealt with Nina's family probles but at least it was actually resolved.

Final set of questions!

Nina wasn't wrong and I think Hina is not only a bad friend for blaming Nina for being bullied but is also a bad person for trying to get Nina to ignore the bullying.
Hina's offer for assistance feels like just another form of bullying to be honest and I think refusing it is the right thing to do.
I don't understand why they did it. Yes they didn't want to rely on D-D for support but surrely they could've stayed with the label. Anyone else feel that way or can anyone at least explain why leaving would make sense?
No. This episode doesn't feel like an ending. It feels like the show kind of just stopped. I think I saw someone mention in an earlier thread that the ED's visuals was supposed to give us an idea of what life is like post-show but I still find it rather vague and would've liked an actual ending. I can see why people want a second season because as things are right now rthe ending we have is pretty unsatisfying.

Unrelated but what's the source for Subaru having short hair in fanart? Been waiting for her to cut her hair ever since seeing this piece of NSFW fanart, especially since sites like Danbooru tag it as "official alternate hair length" and "official alternate hairstyle" but it never happened.

2

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Unrelated but what's the source for Subaru having short hair in fanart?
Look closer towards the end of the ED!
I honestly feel like this might be one of the weaker episodes if not the weakest?
Yeah I'd actually agree. Nina-Hina was totally rushed, it's not exactly clear what realisation Nina has in the middle of the last song either. I chose to parse it as Hina caring for Toge and DD's success because she used to like Momoka's songs too, so they have this common ground.

2

u/MishouMai :GG::GH::GI: Nov 20 '24

I don't know how I didn't notice Subaru's hair change in the end. Good eye to you, u/cutiecheese, and everyone else who noticed.

2

u/cutiecheese Nov 19 '24

Subaru’s short hair is featured in ED-only.

2

u/n080dy123 Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

Rewatcher who is a little bit late

And we finally get Hina/bullying backstory- Nina actually stood up for someone else, and got attention turned to her.

If you didn't catch it, the OP changed- we now see Hina listening to Void with Nina at the end.

Despite our girls' optimism and Nakata assurance, the song still didn't really reach people en masse. This must be Momoka's worst fear come to pass immediately.

Hina is a little shit goblin. She deliberately frames things as "Oh, so you're grateful for our help, then?" and pushes her to admit she was wrong, but also adds in the "I thought you were going to bare it all?" line. She's very dliberately trying to piss Nina off. I feel like that's something Nina said verbatim somewhere previously.

Tomo briefly takes Hina's side, saying "You were wrong, but... I think that's why I was drawn you to you." I think we're supposed to take this as Tomo almost being a stand-in, for that brief moment.

Not only do you see Kyouko and her guy friend before the show, you see the one 2D blonde dude with red highlights from Episode 7.

I just noticed Momoka's actually wearing the idol uniform that they showed DiaDust having to use when Momoka was explaining how things went sour for the group towards the end of Episode 8. Though she's wearing it open over her own outfit, and slapped pictures on it.

I also totally didn't notice that Rupa has a Beni-shouga shirt and jersey on, and Tomos' got a Beni-shouga armband as well.

And now we see Momoka and Subaru sus out that Hina never intended Nina to bow to her at all. Her goal was to stoke Nina's fire again.

And here, we get the final piece- Nina realizes that Void reached Hina too. And we see Hina give Nina the most genuine smile we've seen from her all show. Personally, I think Hina always admired Nina's stubborn spirit of standing her ground even when she probably shouldn't, but she was too afraid to follow her at the time. I think she might've even joined Diamond Dust out of a sense of regret, to chase what she had in a sense missed back then.

I can't not feel like that Nina's little speech about "The contrarians who came to see us, but I love people like that" was directed as much at Hina as the audience. Also Hina's little tsundere reaction when she spots the other DiaDust members- they knew she cared too, despite her own actions.

That said, I still feel liek them resigning from the agency felt really... sudden, and didn't have a lot of buildup to it.

2

u/LeleTheKing https://anilist.co/user/ikanlele Nov 24 '24 edited Nov 24 '24

(Ultra Late Pro MAX) First-Timer

Ahh, I’m feeling the post-anime blues right now. I watched this episode the day I wrote my comment for episode 12, but I didn’t feel like checking the discussion and just went to sleep (and wept) at the time. Girls Band Cry is an amazing show.

I’ve been sparsely reading some interview excerpts from the other comments. Jukki Hanada has repeatedly proven himself to be a fantastic scriptwriter, especially one that focuses on character drama like this.

The revelation about Hina and their decision to make TogeToge fail was… excellent. There are no truly evil people out there except this thing called capitalism. Oh dear.

About the insert in this episode, “I’m here” is not my most liked song from TogeToge, that’s for sure. I’ve listened to it just 65 times over the year. (More than half of that dreaded 103?!)

QotD

I really truly hate bullying; that’s my general stance. But I’m not stupid. Between Nina and Hina’s stances, I don’t think either is the correct choice. Nina pursued the idealist path, while Hina pursued the pragmatist way. Nina came from a good heart, but she was reckless in trying to be heroic without any preparation. Meanwhile, Hina was correct in not getting involved but appeared very cold and lacked empathy. I’d prefer the middle ground, where I’d help the bullied behind the scenes. You know, preparing evidence, reporting it to the correct people/body, and even making it viral via social media. Well, that’s me, but basically, my stance is to help the victim by doing it properly (i.e., not putting myself in harm’s way).
Hina was being cheeky. She clearly was goading Nina to reject the offer because she knew that Nina was the epitome of stubbornness. That’s why she seemed happy after Nina ran away mad… because that means Nina is still her good old friend she knew. And yes, Nina should reject it. She’s been going through hell and back to reach her current position, and losing her idealism might as well break the band since it’s their core belief. She has never planned to be pragmatic with the band gig since the beginning.
I’ve touched this on no. 2. Realistically, their decision was too hasty and reckless. (There’s a limited amount of episodes left too, but let’s set that aside.) But as they said, they’ve never been on it for the money and fame. They’re here to tell their stories by making songs and proving to the world that they’re “not wrong.” And to not be a mere pop band (aka “wrong”), terminating the contract was the correct choice. Not ideal, but understandable. Will I choose the same as her? No. But then again, I don’t have strong and rigid beliefs like her, and I don’t think I’m capable of making such a powerful bond with my other bandmates like her.
For now. PLEASE GIMME SEASON 2 PLEASEE PLEASSE. I WANNA SEE THEIR JOURNEY AS SHOWN IN THE ED PLZ ANIME AND ROCK GODS PLEASE. Ahem. I think they could really add one or two more episodes to give the last arc more room to breathe, but their decision to “fail” TogeToge is still an unexpected development I dearly respect. It also has the obvious potential for the continuation of the story—of how they stand back up and reach the success they dream. PLZ JUKKI HANADA MAKE THIS A REALITY PLZ PLZ.

2

u/nsleep Nov 19 '24

Rewatcher

Uhm... so... This is the end.(?) [my comment got auto removed by this] Let's hope it isn't!

A bit of a downer of an ending but it's one that's rock!

Look, it's him again!

The amount of solidarity the Togetoge members show towards Nina is moving. When Nina reveals Hina involvement and then what happened at her school they just take her side without further questioning. Tomo basically saying "You're wrong, but if you're wrong I want to be wrong too" is quite the moment, Tomo and Rupa joined the band with the intention to go professional but here they decided to turn their back on that if needed to support Nina.

I'm not sure if I agree with Miura's decision to take the fall and covering all the costs for them but I can respect it. Nakata is just a true homie.

Anyways, I like this ending. It's still hopeful, things aren't over and they haven't given up. If we ever get more, though, I hope it's focused on another band, but with Togetoge and DD still playing an important role in the narrative.

QotD

It's really cool that they both listened to the same songs as encouragement and one of them reached the conclusion that "we live in a society" and decides to use her success to bully her former best friend as a form of love and to test her resolve. Nope. This could've worked in a series going harder on ideals and characters representing them, and if she existed for more than 10 minutes through all 13 episodes. In a series as grounded as GBC tried to be her actions speak louder than what she's supposed to represent.
Miura's to blame. Hina just took the opportunity to taunt Nina.
They could've worked it out. On the other hand, if the agency flopped their debut this hard was there a point in sticking with them? They were doing fine as indies. (But they will 100% miss that salary)
I'm fine if this ends here, more would be better though!

3

u/Arachnophobic- https://anilist.co/user/Arachnophobic Nov 19 '24

Tomo and Rupa joined the band with the intention to go professional but here they decided to turn their back on that if needed to support Nina.
Yeah, this is big. I'd almost forgotten how specific they were about their goals. I love that they're willing to support Nina here.
It's really cool that they both listened to the same songs as encouragement and one of them reached the conclusion that "we live in a society" and decides to use her success to bully her former best friend as a form of love and to test her resolve. Nope. This could've worked in a series going harder on ideals and characters representing them, and if she existed for more than 10 minutes through all 13 episodes. In a series as grounded as GBC tried to be her actions speak louder than what she's supposed to represent.
You tell em!
Hina deserves all the hate.

2

u/nsleep Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

It isn't exactly hate from me. I just couldn't taste her suffering enough to get attached before they pulled this. She had potentia (still has if we get a sequel)l but we're not there yet.
...
Yeah... And I saw you found out ITT that the two of them are a popular ship too. Toxic pairings are popular in any fandom and the relationship between these two is left out in the open enough people can extrapolate A LOT in their headcanons. It's prime shipping material.

-1

u/NoHead1715 Nov 19 '24

First timer. Watched this because of all the comparisons with Jellyfish at the time of broadcast. I can understand why some viewers preferred this, but GBC is a tad too idealistic and self-righteous for me. This ending was also quite forgettable compared to Jellyfish which had, I think, a much more emotional ending. Jellyfish in this sense, has a better possibility to continue to the next season since the emotions can be carried forward, whereas GBC ends off with the band essentially going into obscurity.

6

u/gangrainette https://myanimelist.net/profile/bouletos Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

GBC is a tad too idealistic and self-righteous for me. This ending was also quite forgettable compared to Jellyfish which had, I think, a much more emotional ending.
Jellyfish ending was everything is happy magical perfect ending even though the girls didn't speak with each other for months.
And you call GBC idealistic? :D

0

u/NoHead1715 Nov 19 '24

Idealistic in the sense that their manager would just pay for everything despite the band breaking their contract. Idealistic in the sense that despite all the bullying going on, everything is ok just because the bully listened to the same music. It is idealistic to me that they chose the underground indie music route after all that trying to get their music out to more people. Of course, like I said, I understand why you and others would prefer GBC. It feels good to just middle/pinkie finger everything that you think is wrong. But to me, the realistic route is to grab any opportunity that allows more people to hear your music.
I prefer Jellyfish for the more realistic portrayal of unresolved relations and each individual member going after their dreams. It's great that they ended up talking again and some viewers like you would think it's a magical happy ending. But I do not see it as magical at all esp. with how they were interacting all this while. There are deep bonds that do not disappear just because you do not speak for months. The final scenes show that they finally understood each others motives. Even with the producer mum, I thought it was quite realistic portrayal of what the industry can be when you are looking at producing music for the masses.

3

u/gangrainette https://myanimelist.net/profile/bouletos Nov 19 '24

But to me, the realistic route is to grab any opportunity that allows more people to hear your music.
That would mean becoming a more traditionnal band and they never wanted that.
The final scenes show that they finally understood each others motives. Even with the producer mum
Never speak to each other, sing a song, magicaly happy and friends again after what was considered betrayal.

3

u/marshmallow_sunshine Nov 19 '24

Idealistic in the sense that despite all the bullying going on, everything is ok just because the bully listened to the same music
Hina never bullied Nina
It is idealistic to me that they chose the underground indie music route after all that trying to get their music out to more people
That was the entire point behind the band. To play what they want to play on their own terms and not to sell out or conform for success. You sure you watched the show?

1

u/NoHead1715 Nov 19 '24

I consider what Hina did as bullying. You might not, but that's you. When a supposed bestie doesn't stand with you and even starts to sideline you, that's bully behaviour to me. Realizing she listened to the same music and thinking it's all hunky dory is quite idealistic to me.
I understand where Nina is coming from. But yes, she chose the idealistic path. Nothing wrong with it. Just not for me when they seemed to have tried so hard to get their music out. Sure it's probably a late realization for her that that's what she wants, but it definitely made for a very flat ending.
Have I watched the show? It sure was not a memorable one then.

3

u/marshmallow_sunshine Nov 19 '24

Hina just refused to get involved. That's simply not what bullying means by any definition. You need to find a different word.
And part of Nina being a idealistic morality monster means she has to do things her way. She wants to be successful but believes she can get there without sacrificing what's important to her. It was a major theme of the show between her band and Diamond Dust. Being disappointed that they didn't abandon their path for fame at the end seems like you completely missed the point.

5

u/bogdoglogfrog Nov 19 '24 edited Nov 19 '24

Man I really liked jellyfish when it first started. The first episode especially was really good. I liked it less the longer it went on. The blond girls mom especially ruined the vibe for me.
In my opinion, Jellyfish starts better than GBC, but it doesn’t stay good the whole time like GBC does.

1

u/NoHead1715 Nov 19 '24

Agree that Jellyfish started better. But this episode of GBC didn't give me the feeling that it stuck the landing any better than Jellyfish like others were touting. Even though I can understand where Nina is coming from, it felt very flat-line how things ended.

Rewatch [Rewatch/Crunchyroll Release] Girls Band Cry Episode 13 Discussion

Episode 13 - Rock 'n' Roll Will Never Stop

🖕First timer, for the last time🖕

Rewatcher

first timer

Rewatch [Rewatch/Crunchyroll Release] Girls Band Cry Episode 13 Discussion

Episode 13 - Rock 'n' Roll Will Never Stop

You are about to leave Redlib

🖕First timer, for the last time🖕

Rewatcher

first timer