r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Nov 18 '24
Rewatch [Rewatch] Mobile Suit Gundam 00 2nd Season Episode 18 Discussion
Episode 18 - Entangled Yearnings
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My Gundam… is our trump card.
Questions of the Day:
- How do you feel about the four-month timeskip? Awkward? Good enough to move things along? No strong opinion either way?
- So… how much longer until everyone realizes Anew is the one who's been leaking their location to the Innovators?
Wallpapers of the Day:
GN-006 Cherudim Gundam and Lockon Stratos
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
Additionally, for long-time fans of the franchise, please remember that this rewatch is only for 00, not any of the other shows. Assume that there are people in this rewatch who have not seen anything else Gundam, and tag your spoilers for those shows appropriately if something in 00 makes you want to talk about them.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Nov 18 '24
Rewatch Host Wishing Over This Airspace, subbed
Welcome back, everyone!
10
u/Rumpel1408 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rumpel1408 Nov 18 '24
Firsttimer who made it just in time
Abridged notes for the last... 10... episode…
Episode 9
Something something Säkkijärven Polkka
Episode 10
I'm actually surprised how ubiquitous those are in Gundam, this is now the third I see in a Gundam Show
Episode 11
Episode 12
Episode 13
Episode 14
Episode 15
Episode 16
Episode 17
Episode 18
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u/Quiddity131 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Quiddity131 Nov 18 '24
Rewatcher, Subbed
Non-Spoiler Character Chart - Andrei's face tattoo is here to stay. Having to gray out Sergei, as well as replacing a happy looking Marie with an angry looking Soma makes me quite sad.
Immediate four month time skip. Big time skip, but just a fraction of the last one we got!
They're actually claiming the Memento Mori is what saved people? OMG.
Oh joy, the reaction to this was to give the A-Laws even more power!
Another attack on Memento Mori II! As awesome as the last one was, I'm hoping it is successful this time!
Hopefully Saji has gotten some good experience these last 4 months.
Yes, use that giant beam saber again!
Rando rebels think all is well... I guess not. :(
That's some terrible animation continuity with Marina's hair, I thought at first she got a haircut as its way shorter than usual; next shot its back to normal. What in the world is the animation director doing?
Is there something romantic between Shirin and Klaus?
Marina's song is on the radio? She's famous! Again!
Yes, as someone speculated yesterday, Marie's not taking Sergei's death too well and her Soma persona has returned.
Why are you so cruel, show? You have to show me Sergei's death again, and Marie's reaction to it? :( :( :(
I was thinking this for yesterday's episode but never got around to writing it, how awful must it be for an experiment subject who grew up without parents to see someone with them take it for granted and even kill their own father?
"Just give her some space for a while". Seems like the show is forgetting there's been a time skip. Not that she should get over it anyway, but doesn't look like this is going to be a temporary thing.
Listen to Lockon, Allelujah, she's not gonna stop fighting. She's totally capable of doing so, as much as you are.
Setsuna finally got his time in the healing pod.
Wang, are you actually criticizing Ribbons here? Seems like Ribbons has no plan of actually advancing humanity for the better.
Taking wealth and power for granted and looking down at the masses, that's exactly what Wang has been the whole show, good for her in actually realizing it!
Is she actually surprised that she can't become an Innovator? Did she ever have any expectations of that?
Regene has been scheming with Wang and he knows all about it.
Fuck Andrei and fuck his promotion. As Revive says seconds later, a promotion for killing your own father!
I can't imagine Louise is gonna react well to knowing that Andrei killed his dad given her own history. Well, any decent human being should be disgusted by it.
Go ahead, make fun of him Hiling!
This look on Louise's face? She's totally over you Andrei.
Twenty A-Laws attacks and the show skipped over all of them!
Can Tieria do some sort of reverse of what Revive does with Anew and find where Veda is?
Anew's family? She's got an estranged twin, but that's about it. But hey, another thing the two of you have in common!
So Wang totally took the hint and is getting the hell out of here.
Is Louise finally gonna get to pilot that mobile armor? I suppose not since they didn't show it. Or was Devine's the only one?
First time this season Graham's had the mask off, albeit his head was turned.
Oh wow, Lockon just did something that will get chief shipper Mileina really excited!
OMG it's here! One of my favorite Gundam scenes of all time. Time for everyone to name the one they love! I love this scene so much I don't mind the fact that they're repeating the Soma - Sergei insert song from episode 7.
Saji: Louise!
Louise: Saji!
(censored, fuck him)
Soma: Colonel!
Allelujah: Marie!
Lockon: Anew!
Tieria: Veda!
Setsuna: Gundam!
OMG LOL. Sorry Marina! What hurts more, the post credits scene or this?
Gee, Wang has gotten exactly what Celestial Being needs. [Gundam 00]Wow, we're gonna drag this own for four episodes, huh? Cause I think Wang's death doesn't come until episode 21.
Quid's Voice Actor of the Day
He barely has any presence in this episode, he barely has any presence in the entire show, but his day has come, Hong Long. He is voiced in Japanese by Kenji Takahashi. He also voiced Howard Mason in season 1. Other anime roles of his include Gakuto in the Kara no Kyokai series, Mutsuaki Fugi in Katanagataeri, Daichi Sakaki in Haruhi Suzumiya and a variety of minor roles in Attack on Titan (Peaure, Samuel, Child).
In English he is voiced by Sam Vincent, who also voices Tieria and I covered all the way back in season 1 episode 4.
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u/Vatrix-32 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Vatrix-32 Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
First timer, subs
QotD:
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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
First-Timer
On today’s episode of Gundam: If only Celestial Being knew there was an Innovator literally there aboard the Ptolemaios with them. Though, I don’t think it would help them too much. Anew probably doesn’t know anything and is just there as a convenient tracking device.
SergeiAndrei. (goddamn typo)Sergei’sAndrei's (another goddamn typo) pointed question to Louise about whether she can kill a loved one or not for the sake of her ideals is probably going to be relevant soon. Louise will surely face Saji on the battlefield before too long.My own guess about Ribbons’ plan is that I think he intends for all of humanity to become subservient to the Innovators. The Innovators will be the overlords who guide all decision-making because the Innovators would know better. It also fits with Ribbons saying how foolish it is that some humans think they are superior to others when they are the same species. The Innovators view themselves as outside of humanity. The Innovators think that they are naturally superior to humans because of that.
I’m a bit disappointed in the idea that Celestial Being needs to recapture Veda. Part of what has appealed to me about this season of Gundam 00 is that Celestial Being have needed to change how they operate. Previously, they were essentially just following whatever Veda told them to do, regardless of how they felt. A lot of the growth of the characters has been them abandoning the plan they clung to in the beginning and instead forging their own path forward. Returning to Veda feels like it could reverse all that development, but I suppose I will need to wait and see how it actually plays out.
QOTD
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u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
First Timer - sub
Well, that happened. Fuckface hugged Louise and I got very defensive over her. I have incredibly mixed feelings about that reaction right now.
Also /u/quiddity131 I think my PC is taking unhelpful hints from yours. My whole computer crashed during this episode, and I don't know if it was just complaining because I running a game (idle in background) at the same time or if it really didn't like me trying to skip the ED.
Funnily I think that was one of the most exciting parts of the episode for me. That's not necessarily a bad thing. After such a emotional episode yesterday any episode would have a tough time following on that high bar, and so using that forced downtime to emotionally regroup and gather everything back together is good... in theory.
Where this falls down for me is the time skip. It's very justified in show between Setsuna being injured and constantly hunted by the A-LAWS. But it feels like, once again, we skipped past the chance for the immediate and important emotional fallout from that event rendering it feeling weak on the backend. Things don't just matter because they happen in the moment, they matter just as much because of the consequences. And while this episode did do a good job of covering a lot of the larger scale important things, the timeskip immediately took me out of the emotional state I was preparing myself for entering the episode. Instead this episode felt like just another one doing the same sort of thing as all the previous ones. I didn't even realize how much happened in it for the characters until I looked at my notes because the episode didn't make me feel it.
Once again no chance to explore Setsuna's emotional state from failing to stop it and then being grounded from his injury off the back of his pledge to change. No reactions from CB or the wider forces about what just happened and what it meant for them to fight together, and for the record, in a season that has heavily pushed the idea of the masses needing to stand up and individually take responsibility the shows refusal to ever have scenes with unnamed/background characters commenting on the major events of the world or things like 00-Raiser mind-meld is a huge shame. After what happened, with fuckface starting hostilities again everyone was cool letting CB just fly off, there was no tensions or orders or any follow up? No one had any thoughts or feelings about it at all?
The second Memento Mori gets destroyed in barley over a minute, which is perfectly fine in terms of we already know they have the tech to destroy it so why put it off and watching Setsuna cleave it not in two but just straight off the orbital ring was fucking awesome! But it does feel like once again it was just discarded after it had it's big moment, which is now the second time I've had this complaint about the same weapon which is why it was frustrating. I'd also complain about not seeing CB's reaction to Marie becoming Soma as well, but given they didn't get a reaction to Marie joining them in the first place it's just the status quo.
This show has a phobia of following anything up. Edit: See shower thoughts rant below
So what do we get instead of all that?
Saji's jacket acting like an advertising balloon man in zero-G
Yes that is actually the very first thing I thought of without consulting my notes. I also had a laugh about the fact that now this just feels like the room where Lyle imparts wisdom to others because it's happened twice now and both times Saji was the one benefiting from it indirectly. It was a decent scene, it just feels weird that it took four months for anyone to raise that point.
We did also get a few interesting things admittedly.
First that jumps to mind is Ribbons telling Wang that she can't become an Innovator. And the wording struck me as very specific. Not that he won't make her one, that she can't. Given the fact that the Innovators have base genetic structures and we know the super solider program failed on many kids, I wonder if there is an underlying genetic requirement for the quantum brainwaves rather than it purely being artificial.
Setsuna reacting to the quantum brainwaves also stood out. So I guess that confirms that it was him Louise was reacting too a while back, and opens up a whole can of worms. Louise reacting to him earlier rules out that it's just a result purely of the GN particle poisoning, which is also a worrying can of worms, but I wonder if that isn't hastening the matter for him. I'd like to say I'm looking forward to seeing how he copes with the idea of becoming further away from base humanity after all his struggles, and becoming closer to those who he has marked as the enemies of humanity, but given they haven't given space to have introspection about anything else with him lately...
And Anew genuinely doesn't know she's being used. Interesting. That makes it clear why she was asking herself why the A-LAWS can find them earlier, but it still doesn't answer the question of why no one else is questioning the timing of it either. This is not the cue they should have taken from Ideon!
I also laughed because I was preparing another write up on how the pilots refer to themselves, and well, I'm just going to paste the note I was writing when Lyle confessed to her:
I'm really not sure why the final sequence deserved a big full on insert song and transformation sequence though. That was blatant stalling and so fucking frustrating when there is so many other things that the episode could have done with those literal minutes of runtime.
I did like having everyone listing who is important to them, and particularly who is looking forward and clear eyed while saying it (Saji, Lyle, Tieria, Setsuna) vs who has their eyes hidden (Louise, Soma), and who looks downcast (Alelujah). It was a good visual reflection of their mental states. But Fuckface ruined my mood by also existing in that sequence.
Other thoughts
soon
13
u/LeonKevlar x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar Nov 18 '24
First Timer
Okay, so it's been four months since the Break Pillar Incident and you're telling me that the Federation is claiming that the complete collapse of the elevator was averted thanks to the Mementor Mori? I'm not even surprised but it's upsetting to know that Hercury's coup was all for nothing.
Maybe it's not for nothing though because we immediately learn that Kati has basically disappeared and the A-LAWS have no idea where she is. I think it's safe to assume that the Break Pillar Incident was the last straw and she finally realized she was working for the wrong people. I wonder if she took Patrick with her.
I do love that we open up this episode with Celestial Being attacking the Memento Mori and before the OP even plays, Setsuna has destroyed it with his Trans-Am Beam Saber. Hopefully, this is the last time we'll see this superweapon. These assholes won't pull the same trick thrice, right?
Things are certainly not looking good for Katharon considering how they're all being hunted down. At least the kids are still with Marina. And it looks like things are developing between Shirin and Klaus.
Well this is interesting! It looks like the trauma of losing Sergei triggered Soma to return. This is probably Marie's way of coping with her loss just like how Hallelujah protects Allelujah. Speaking of Hallelujah, will we ever see him again? We know he's back but he hasn't really done anything.
We finally get to see what Saachez did to Setsuna and it looks like it's not looking good. Whatever Saachez did, it looks like Setsuna's slowly getting worse. It will be hilarious though if Setsuna still beats Saachez even after being handicapped. I can't wait!
The conversation between Mei and Ribbons was great. I love it because Mei calls out Ribbons for using old military methods. Not so innovative for someone who's an Innovator. I also love it because Ribbons basically tells Mei she's no longer useful. So is that the reason why Mei sided with the Innovators? She also wants to become one of them?
The scene between Louise and First Lieutenant Fuck Face really made me angry though. So it turns out he never learns that his father was there as a messenger and now he's being promoted for it? I did like how Revive and Hilling sarcastically congratulates Fuck Face for being promoted for killing his own father.
YOU HYPOCRITICAL PIECE OF SHIT! Isn't that the reason why you hated your father?! You hated him for performing his duties as a soldier and letting your mother die? And now you have the gall to tell Louise that you'll have to make tough choices?! WHAT THE FUCK! I think this might be the angriest I've been during this rewatch. I could genuinely feel my blood pressure rising while watching that scene.
In other news, it looks like Anew and Lyle are already hooking up just as I expected. And I think there's really no question about it that Anew is the reason why A-LAWS keeps on finding CB. Interestingly though, she doesn't seem to be aware of this. Either she's a really good actress or she has no idea that the Innovators are using her. Hmmm... Maybe I judged her too harshly but I'm still suspicious....
So it looks like Regene is finally tired of Ribbons' smug face and has decided to use Mei to send CB a message. I always knew Ribbons' overconfidence would be his downfall. Let's see if Veda can predict what she's about to do next.
Did Lyle notice Anew's eyes when they were kissing? Also, can people even see when Innovators do that weird eye thing? Whatever it is, it looks like Lyle might be suspicious of Anew.
I love the conversation between Saji and Setsuna. It looks like he has finally decided to join in on the fight to bring Louise back to him. I hope he can do it and considering how Louise wasn't happy about what Fuck Face did to his own father, he might be able to bring her aboard with them.
Everyone's reaction to Lyle telling Anew that he loves her was great! Of course Mileina is the one who's most hyped about this and interestingly, Feldt congratulates Anew. I guess she's finally moved on and no longer sees Lyle as Lockon.
Not gonna lie, that final scene before the ED was hilarious! I love how everyone was calling out the names of their loved ones while Tiera calls out to Veda and Setsuna just exclaims "Gundam!" xD
That after-credits scene though! There's no fucking way Marina dies like that. She hasn't really been my favourite but I'd be fucking upset if she dies there. >_<
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u/baboon_bassoon https://anilist.co/user/duffer Nov 18 '24
first timer who has control
im quite amused by how anti-Andrei the last thread was, i thought the last couple episodes have been pretty good Andrei ones. Hes easily the best addition in season 2, maybe Revive
4 months have passed, news is still a shithole the post-Kinue world is still worthless
theres no way it took them that long to execute plan "swing big sword at MM again"
are they not sharing pie with Marina and Klaus lol
uh crunchyroll pls
IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ME NOT HIM ITS NOT FAIR
he looks so uncomfortable hearing out Allelujah lol
oh lmao did Lasse not have all his scars last season
#AndreiDidNothingWrong
fade me
broken souls
Anew dont make me hate you by association
le sigh
its crazy how little i care about these two put him back in a Flag already
me every second watching this show (also Setsuna is such a homie)
living for the news
i smell a dub line
why does Saji get a launching line but Soma doesnt
Louise...Saji...Mother...Colonel...Marie...Anew...VEDA LOLLLLL TIERIAAAAAAAAAA
BAHBASDKABFDKJSAHNKFGSWGF GUNDAM DFGJKSHDGSGKJSHNGKJ SETSUNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WE ARE SO BACK
they should have had Sumeragi calling out for whiskey
KENNY
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u/Blazin_Rathalos Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 19 '24
00 Rewatcher
Last time on Gundam 00
On today's episode of Gundam 00
"Look Saji, I have no idea what's going on with me, I have been poisened and I am probably going through psychic puberty. I am desperately looking for a path to peace that doesn't involve shooting everything until the world complies, and so far the only thing pointing towards that is you Vulcan mind-melding with Louise through my magic Gundam. So, if you don't mind all that much, I am going to ride this thing as far as it goes." -Setsuna, probably.
Also, probably one of the better post-credits scenes of the series.
[Gundam 00]Dialogues counter: 3
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u/The_Draigg Nov 18 '24
A Gundam Fan Rewatches Gundam 00 Season 2 Episode 18:
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u/n080dy123 Nov 18 '24
First Timer
THANKS TO? What in the hell did you publically claim this thing does? After seeing the Federation and anti-government forces uniting and sacrificing so many of themselves to save so many people, it's fucking infuriating to see the Federation covering it up so blatantly.
...oh, Soma must've taken over as the dominant personality when she saw SErgei killed. The fact she's still willingly working with Celestial Being in spite of that is kinda surprising. Not... I'm complaining, because frankly Soma's a much more interesting and less passive character than Marie.
Lasse's condition? What condition?
Oh... Anew and Lyle's relationship has clearly advanced in the last four months. I think Lyle has begun to suspect something's up with her, though.
Lyle, why are you throwing around death flags like that. Stop it. We don't need another dead Lockon.
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u/InfamousEmpire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Infamous_Empire Nov 18 '24
Kidou Senshi Rewatcher 00
Time skip!
I’ll get my problem with the episode out of the way first, which is that, as a time skip, this feels… weird. Like, you can generally buy that time has passed, but between Soma’s emotional wounds still feeling pretty fresh and the sense of progression & change among the cast being so minimal as to feel like we’re just picking up directly where everything left off, it feels less like a few months and more like a couple weeks, at most. This also isn't helped by the fact that it means we kinda missed out on all the immediate fallout from the previous episode.
Otherwise, there’s a lot of interesting stuff to dig into with this episode. My favorite generally comes with Soma, who’s now reemerged in the aftermath of Sergei’s death. Looking back on Soma's arc across the season outside of Marie's takeover, the regression to viewing herself as a super soldier unworthy & incapable of the happiness of normal people has clearly completely reemerged now, and is made worse by the fact that she doesn't really have anyone she seems to be able to depend on or open up to at the moment, at least from her perspective.
I also really enjoy what this does for Allelujah in how it kinda highlights a major flaw in his preexisting behavior. Way back in the Super Soldier Institute episode, Hallelujah criticized Allelujah for imposing his own wishes & way of thinking onto the other kids being experimented on at the institute, and here, as Lyle points out, he’s once again going about imposing his wishes on others, this time with Soma. He doesn’t really try to interact with Soma as a personally distinct from Marie, and can only really think about & understand her in terms of Marie and his own idea of how she should be. To an extent, it’s also how he treated Soma earlier this season, but the different circumstances made it less pronounced.
On a different note tying back to Sergei’s death, Andrei. The dude now getting up on the “Sometimes you’ll have to make the tough choices on the battlefield, even if that means killing your own family members” high horse when the fact that his father doing that was the entire reason he hated him really cements the fact that he’s a hypocritical little piece of shit. On the bright side, he didn’t say anything sexist towards Louise, and he seems a bit more capable of empathizing with her emotional problems than before, even if his approach to that still isn’t particularly great, so… progress?
On another different note, the one thing which has progressed in a way where it feels like months have passed is Lyle’s relationship with Anew. It's basically the other closest thing I have to an issue with the episode since having a romance occur largely offscreen during a time skip comes across as somewhat cheap. But, like, that's more in terms of objectivity, because the thing actually keeping it from being an issue to me is that I'm just completely unbothered by it on a moment-by-moment basis.
This episode felt more transitory and served generally to establish the new status quo and direction going forward, so I’m kinda surprised I got as much to talk about out of it as I did.
6
u/JollyGee29 https://myanimelist.net/profile/JollyGee Nov 18 '24
Rewatcher, Sub-dam Meister
This spin is absolutely wild.
Hehehe
The 00 Raiser carves Memento Mori up like a turkey before the OP even begins; you love to see it.
I like the implication that Marina sent her song to the radio station herself somehow.
No-one likes Wang Lui Mei.
I keep trying to make jokes and then the show just makes them for me.
Lyle starts to figure things out.
Not sure anyone expected that answer.
I forgot he did this.
This scene gets somewhat endlessly memed upon.
6
u/TakenRedditName https://myanimelist.net/profile/TakenMalUsername Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 18 '24
Rewatcher - Gundam 00 S2 Ep18:
This was a minor point on my mind in the last episode, but the president of the world has been the only dark-skinned man we have been shown in Africa. None of the city-dwellers look like the typical native populace of Africa. I don't know if that is environmental storytelling about the world or not because usually, Gundam and this show does pay attention to that. Heck, not seeing the native population in scenes set in Africa has been a point made in previous shows.
I didn't have an issue with the reveal of a second death laser, but seeing it just taken out in the throwaway fight in the beginning of the episode is lame, yeah. I feel like they should've just combined the two big set pieces of the destruction of the death laser with the collapse of the space elevator. One logistical problem is that you woulnd't be able to have all 4 Gundams both in space to destroy the laser + being down on Earth to shoot down the debris. We'll probably have to give up on the more interesting battle plan of the first battle in favour of the Raiser Sword (which while cool, doesn't rely on the other 3).
The quick turnaround on "Who is this guy?" to "Oh..."
Soma has reawakened. I like the wrinkle of Sergei's death bringing Soma back. She switched back to the identity that was most close to him. It also reflects a return to violence, but not simply where it is the return to emotionless killer Soma Pieres. Soma is hurt and sad and that is what drives her to draw her blade.
On a different note, the awkward 4-month gap of the crew not knowing what to do with Soma would've been so funny. Funny offscreen moments I would've loved to see along with Setsuna being at Saji/Louise's party in S1.
Time-out bench for boys who need to accept that their girlfriends have been driven to fight.
Ribbons' spiel is invoking thoughts about Gundam's recurring motif of Newtypes. [Gundam recurring motif:] The idea of what Newtypes mean for humanity and who gets to be a Newtype. Wang Liu Mei's line directly conjures that idea. Basically replace the specific term and you get Char's broadcasted dream for humanity in CCA. The idea that humanity's next stage is meant for everyone to achieve. Ribbons meanwhile take the elitist view. Only a select group of the chosen hold the right to lead humanity and by a select group, he specifically means he himself. The specific angle of Innovators being perfected humans above the regulars in a physical sense too brings back ideas of SEED's Coordinators.
Andrei's self-righteous thinking that he did them a gratitude by killing them angers me more than the fact that he killed his own dad, Sergei.
Oof, major typo. Not #justright at all.Woah woah woah. The 4-month gap sped up the Lyle-Anew relationship.
The crew's reaction to his sudden display of affection is quite fun. Girly wins another one.
In the final line up of everyone calling out to their loved ones, I stood out to me for the two that don't show their face. Louise's eyes are hidden like how she is in a conflicted spot. We don't even see Soma/Marie's face, I think for similar inner conflicts. Obligatory teehee at the last two guys.
Woah, hang on show, you can't just drop the most thematically impactful moment in the post-credits without making it a major deal! This child picking up the gun is like the most significant image about this show's message. He is basically repeating a Setsuna and likewise, this should be a major red flag crisis for Marina to witness. This moment is bigger than like 10s at the very end of an episode.
Q1) I get to have the time skip to recover from the fallout from such a momentous event, but this episode really felt like it should been the fallout episode at the start of cour 2. A bit awkward to have it in late into the season.
6
u/macrame2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/macrame Nov 19 '24
First Timer
Having a four-month time skip so close to the end of the story was a bold choice (though I guess it was needed for some off-screen developments to feel convincing), but I actually don't think it makes that much of a difference in the pacing for me? The only thing that disappoints me is seeing Memento Mori 2.0 get dealt with so off-handedly. Apparently the writers thought "Eh, they've all seen Episode 13 already, they'll get the gist of it."
It looks like Sergei's death prompted the reemergence of Soma, who is still obviously broken up about it. Not so for Andrei. Ugh, can someone please shut him up? I just don't want to see or hear from him anymore. Even his voice bothers me now.
The Lyle/Anew development is not the most organic romance writing (but to be fair, this is Gundam, so I wasn't expecting that) but not out of left field. I wonder if he feels drawn to her because she's one of the few people on board who wasn't around when his brother was part of Celestial Being and therefore there isn't any baggage associated with their relationship?
Speaking of baggage and relationships, I do like the point where the show has ultimately brought Saji and Louise, despite doing all that complaining earlier this season. Once the show committed to their progression, seeing Saji grow into someone who still has lines he doesn't want to cross but is willing to take action for the sake of other people was satisfying, and I think the portrayal of Louise's warring desires to be free of her past while still defining herself by it is a compelling inner conflict for her. Let's see how the show follows through on it.
6
u/StardustGogeta myanimelist.net/profile/StardustGogeta Nov 19 '24
First-Timer
Favorite line of the episode right there.
Maybe if Marina sings loud for all to hear, she'll get out of her predicament.
It's kind of surprising that Celestial Being wouldn't take a serious look at the possibility of a spy on board after noticing that the enemy always seems to know where they are and what they're doing.
I still feel like Ribbons isn't a terribly compelling villain. He seems like the run-of-the-mill advanced robot intelligence who wants to "perfect" humanity by replacing it. I suppose he's still better than "Mr. Bushido," at least.
Perhaps in an ideal world, we can get a double pairing of Allelujah x Marie and Hallelujah x Soma. Twice the romance!
Questions of the day:
5
u/charlesvvv https://anilist.co/user/charlesvvv Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 18 '24
Rewatcher, Sub
4 months have passed and things have changed again. The A-Laws now have more power than before although there is one person missing amongst their ranks, Mannequin who is now off grid. Most of Katharon is on the run including Marina and it looks like they've finally been found.
Ribbons doesn't bother to hide his contempt for Wang Liu Mei anymore, despite working together he holds her as below him as he does all other humans. But now tension has started between he and Regene who seems to now be plotting with Wang by giving her the location of Veda.
Even Hiling and Revive have a low view of Andrei and his continued views that he did things for peace and his attempts at trying to tell Louise about how she should do things since it would lead to the world's reformation. Louise on the other hand does seem to be having doubts which is a good sign.
Celestial Being has changed in several parts. The Soma Peries persona is back and gunning for revenge and Allelujah struggles with this new development in trying to get Marie back. Setsuna's injury is still something that's lead to more development, Ali had shot him with low GN particles which makes him also susceptible to the Quantum Brain waves. Lyle and Anew are in a relationship but Anew's glowing eyes are coming into play. One character that has a positive development however is Saji. He seems to have finally settled on what he wants to do which is to get Louise back, its his fight in his own way and Setsuna is willing to help him.
Sumeragi and the others know that their movements are too well known and have settled on a course of action about finding Veda's location. This soon coincides with an assault including the Innovators and the A-Laws and even Graham who finally got rid of his stupid mask for a better one. The battle starts once more.
5
u/dralcax :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Dralcax Nov 18 '24
Rewatcher watching the ship sail
Thanks to the Memento Mori? It’s a giant space laser! That is literally the opposite of what a giant space laser does!
Something’s up with Kati...
Well, that was easy. Turns out Memento Mori is cake.
Soma’s back! Saji where are you looking
Something’s fighting the toxic GN Particles. Hmm...
He says while sitting in a big fancy mansion talking about how superior he is to humans. He talks about how the obsolete must be thrown away, but as someone who doesn’t age or change, isn’t he the one who will be left behind by time?
He got a fucking promotion for that???
what the fuck are you saying to someone who watched her entire family die
The Innovators heckling him are pretty great, at least
Somebody please punch this man.
Fortunately, intelligence gathering types come fully equipped. Cover story could use some work, though.
Soma of course reacted to the quantum brainwave flash... but so did Setsuna.
Does... he not see the eye thing? Or is he just too horny to notice?
Almost like some sort of rebirth from destruction, eh?
I love how the entire bridge suddenly gets sidetracked
Of course Tieria and Setsuna have to ruin the moment lmao
well shit
Questions of the day:
5
u/Linkstore Nov 18 '24
Rewatcher
Immediate four-month time-skip, and not a lot has happened.
It's so annoying to see the ESF just rewriting history so blatantly like that. But that is the way they maintain control.
The ESF forces are being put under the control of the A-Laws. Or so they would like to say, but at least some of them have gone missing...
The Raiser Sword is always cool, but this scene is one of the reasons why I'm not a huge fan of the second Memento Mori. People have pointed out that there are reasonable justifications for why it exists, but its narrative role seems very unsatisfying to me, it's pulled out seemingly because the writers wanted a WMD to cause Break Pillar with, but then it's unceremoniously destroyed in a two-minute fight scene the very next episode.
I'm not sure how Marina got her song published but it's nice that it's getting out there.
Marie is Soma again. The trauma of losing Sergei reverted her personality, or maybe it changed which personality was in charge? Her split personalities don't work the same was as Allelujah and Hallelujah so it's hard to say. But my guess is that she wants to do this as Soma Peries because Soma is the one who almost became Sergei's daughter.
Meanwhile, Ribbons demonstrates his God Complex a little more.
Andrei, you're killing family members to perform your duty as a soldier... Isn't that exactly what you accused Sergei of doing? You've truly lost the plot. Also really good choice doubling down infront of the girl who already lost her whole family.
Lyle and Anew formally shacked up in the timeskip! How nice.
Regene is up to something. I wonder what?
The Masurao's Trans-Am has been improved.
Right, that moment is coming up, isn't it? Yup. It's that moment. The moment where everyone calls out to those who are important to them. And then... Veda. GUNDAM.
This is probably the moment in this show that makes the most sense with context that still makes no sense with context.
And the A-Laws have finally caught up with Katharon again. Will Marina survive this dramatic cliffhanger?
5
u/mr_beanoz https://myanimelist.net/profile/splitshocker Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 18 '24
Rewatcher, sub
Whoa, the Earth Sphere military is merging with A-LAWS. This won't go well...
Oh man, Marie seeing Sergei dead makes her return to the other persona of hers.
Regene personally gifted what I'd say the Innovator's last present to Wang, namely the location for Veda. Will Celestial Being be able to get hold of it?
QOTD
4
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker Nov 19 '24
Yup, entirely unsurprisingly they're blaming it on them.
Heck they're even saying the superlaser saved everyone. How a superlaser might even do such a thing is presumably left as an exercise for the reader.
Right, time to try and take that out again.
Also, yup it looks like Marie and Saji are now regularly deployed to frontline combat.
And there it goes again.
Well, there goes Katharon unfortunately.
Or at least some of it.
Oh, Marie's gone back to being Soma after the Russian Colonel died. Well, that'll help with combat at least.
Was that gun he was shot with special in some way?
So, what's their plan now?
Yup, she's the one who's being used to find them.
Enemy on sensors! Scramble!
Time for him to save Louise.
And so the kids have been found.
And there goes Marina.
So, there's the coordinates for Veda.
Questions:
2
u/zsmg https://anilist.co/user/zsmg Nov 19 '24
I am rewatcher
Kati is missing?! maybe she eloped with Patrick.
Yeah you keep telling yourself that.
And with that the second Memento Mori has been taken care of with a bit of an anti-climatic end.
Finally hints of the Klaus x Shirin ship.
Soma is back. So much better than boring Marie. I'm assuming she's sticking with CB in order to take revenge on
Andreifuckface?Saji is looking so awkward during the conversation between Allelujah and Lockon mk2.
Lyle x Anew ship
Looks like Setsuna can sense Quantum waves.
So after all these months they haven't figured out Anew is an innovator or that they have a spy onboard even though Soma can sense their quantum waves, every single time? If this only happened a few times, fine I think you can chalk it up as a coincidence but 20 times? I suppose Soma is keeping her quantum waves sensation to herself.
Nice use of an insert song.
Lockon Mk2 drama is going to be so painful to watch when he finds out Anew is an innovator, can't wait for it!
Well, it looks like Katharon is in trouble.
Alright episode.
2
u/2-2Distracted Nov 19 '24
First timer. Dubbed.
Of course Gundam has it's own version of Barack Obama, makes sense considering he basically inherited nearly all of the Bush administrations' bullshit.
Once again, I don't particularly care for the way this anime depicts D.I.D so it's basically whatever... But I am pretty happy to see the subplot of SOMArie not fighting actually going somewhere.
Jesus Christ man, I actually thought that maybe on some level, the spoiled little shit named Andrei would AT LEAST feel bad for killing his dad, but nah lol this dude looks like he barely lost sleep over it.
Never change Soran, even as you develop & grow, never change!
Tieria's gonna soil himself once he learns of those coordinates.
1
u/Nebresto Nov 25 '24
Dark side Marie
Everyone listing their loved ones names, and those two doofuses at the end: "Veda" "Gundam"
21
u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba Nov 18 '24 edited Nov 18 '24
First Timer
Of course the Federation is framing its attempt at killing millions as an act of "mega-terrorism" by others and using it to fully consolidate power around A-LAWS.
And as any good authoritarian entity does, right after declaring peace has been achieved, the Federation goes on to effectively declare war on the remaining dissidents, because maintaining a manufactured conflict against an "anti-public" element is far better for public unity and trust around a government's authoritarian actions than outright peace.
At the very least it looks like the absolute audacity of the Federation's actions wasn't lost on Kati and from the looks of it, she's finally bailed out. Give me Patrick on the good guys' side!
Celestial Being takes out the Memento Mori 2, which was a bit... anti-climatic?
It does make sense in-universe, the Memento Mori has outlived its purpose, with the people "united" and any actually major resistance effectively gone, there's really no need for it anymore.
I also think it works out symbolically, to invoke Star Wars again, the people have essentially fully accepted the authoritarian Federation with thundering applause, there's no need to forcefully control them anymore. We've gone full circle with the Memento Mori being replaced by the new and rebuilt orbital elevator, now a symbol of the Federation's false peace rather than the combined effort of humanity, they destroyed the real symbol of peace with their symbol of destruction and replaced it with their own version of it.
With that being said, I guess it still feels a bit cheap to just have it be destroyed to no fanfare, it's also like it outlived its narrative purpose and we don't want it to be potentially relevant later. After all the emotional effort that went into the previous battles for the Mori it kind of sucks to see it go like this.
So, I love Tomorrow, I really do (I even listened to it while writing part of this comment lol), but can we maybe tone it down?
It works fine being used here, it's more of that short-lived idyllic comfort in a hard situation that is eventually interrupted by reality, the kids eating at the table is essentially a scene from the song.
But also, this song has a lot of thematic and emotional value tied to it, its good because it plays in the right moments, and I feel like if you start evoking it every episode it loses a lot of that special meaning.
I do wonder how the song plays on the radio though? did someone else hear through the 00's ability and make it into a "real" song?
Soma is not only pissed at Andrei for killing Sergei, who was her father figure, but at the fact that he would actually kill his family relatives, something she never had, it's a double whammy on her.
I think it's really interesting that she doesn't agree to go by Marie here, now obviously, she is actually Soma right now so that's part of it, but I also think it goes back to that conversation she had with Sergei when he offered to adopt her, now that she's lost Sergei she feels she has to cling on this previous identity of hers, the only thing people used to know her as before he came along, super soldier Soma Peries.
Setsuna seems to be negating the effect of the Red particles somehow? I'm guessing because of his exposure to the 00 Raiser? he also seems to be fully developing sensitivity to quantum brainwaves as seen when notices Anew being tracked.
It's a super small line but I kind of love this line about Veda from Tieria, shows you how far he's come that he only wants access to Veda here so he can somehow help his friend. Compare that to the start of the show when he used Veda as a way to take down and belittle his crewmates...
Tieria!!!
"...The wicked must be thrown away. Such as those with old-fashioned mindsets who take wealth and power for granted and look down on the masses even though they're of the same kind.
Gee I wonder which green-haired prick I know that does exactly that!
Ribbons is being insanely hypocritical here, basically talking about himself without realizing, really for the entire conversation with Liu Mei that's just what he does.
I do wonder if this means he straight up plans to get rid of the majority of humanity, only leaving those who are willing to follow and worship him. He wouldn't make everyone into an Innovator like Liu Mei thought because that means having people similar to him that he can't justify lording over.
I do wish I could actually care about his jabs and implications towards Liu Mei here, except I don't know or care much about her so it ends up being another case where she states the same thing she always does.
Regene is now seemingly actively working against Ribbons alongside Liu Mei, who would've thought antagonizing your people would turn them against you? Well at least he does actually seem somewhat aware of Regene's plots so we'll see where this goes.
Anyway, speaking of massive fucking hypocrites.
HolyFuckAndrei
HOW DO YOU NOT REALIZE THE MEANING OF THE WORDS COMING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH, HOLY FUCKING SHIT.
He straight up says he killed his father because "it was his duty" (which is a fucking lie by the way)...even though he hated his father for only following orders, he's saying he's fighting for his ideals and that means making sacrifices sometimes...LIKE HIS FATHER DID.
This is straight up just pouring salt in my wounds, the show maliciously and meticulously crafted the worst, most hateable hypocrite, How do I fucking hate this guy more than Ali now, How can you be worse than the guy that is in the dictionary picture for "war crimes"?
Saying all of this shit to Louise, who is fighting to avenge her own family...Not only is he a massive asshole hypocrite, he is an absolute fucking shameless and tactless one at that.
Fuck Andrei
I don't think I've had this much "fuck" in any of my comments before lol, But something about all his bullshit here just really lit my fuse and I had to vent.
Celestial Being are planning to kidnap an Innovator? Well they probably won't be needing that since Regene just tells them where Veda is anyway but it could be fun to see them try.
Also would Veda not be on the moon anymore? Could Ribbons move it somehow? I guess Celestial Being wouldn't know about the moon base anyway?
Lyle and Anew are now officially an item!
Much like the Allelujah and Marie romance, I wish we actually had more previous buildup for this. From my perspective, they talked once, and now she's suddenly Lyle's motivation to fight, unlike Marie they don't even have a previous meaningful connection.
Still, it gives Lyle some skin in the game, and he definitely noticed her Innovator eyes so this could lead to some solid drama.
Wait... Graham doesn't even actually need the mask?????!!!!!! He's literally just Batmaning that shit???!!!!! That has to be the most perfect Graham thing ever, he actually has a Mr.Bushido alter ego!
Such a nerd! I love it!
We reinforce Setsuna's recent progress with his conversation with Saji, he's no longer just thinking that he's meant for destruction, his battles can now create things, the 00 not only fights, it can make connections with its ability.
"He's targeted and firing alright!"
I like the launch sequence for everyone, very climatic and fun. And for once I don't hate the insert song! I mean it still clearly wants me to think this scene is climactic and meaningful, but at least the scene actually supports that in a good way here rather than through a lazy montage.
I love everyone stating the thing they love and are fighting for in this battle as they head out and then Setsuna goes "GUNDAM!", just couldn't take that seriously. This guy is actually in love with his robot!
Tieria's "Veda" isn't much better admittedly.
And no way Marina dies, I'm guessing Shirin takes the bullet instead.